Asmond: shitting on wow pvp Bellular: confused about what they are looking at Pika: looking at the data for what it is Bajheera: scoping out pika's ability to eat a sandwich
theyre just like those sports analysts that dont really play sports, or really did, or got far, but sit there talking based on supposed data like they experts
As someone who has been here for YEARS! I support more baj reacts content, you are super entertaining to hear when its reacting to what you are watching
ur actually wrong unless ur win/loss ratio is far in the negatives (below a 50% win rate), u almost never lose more rating than u gain otherwise, it just does not happen like that due to inflation over time. No one wants to Q arenas because its mostly dead or full of sweaty 2400-r1 xp players from 1800mmr and up, and solo shuffle is the result of this, this DID NOT happen and be a whole expansion long thing before solo shuffle was implemented, shadowlands was not like this, it had its own problems but not this problem, solo shuffle is by far the easiest way to gain honor, conquest and arena achievements, including the elite transmog(s) and pvp enchant(s) while regular arena is a much slower process, and now a much harder process because of the result of solo shuffles "pros". Thats why its a waste of time. And for the record, solo shuffle sucks too because ur playing with a bunch of trigger happy tunnel vision sweaties that have no logic to their gameplay...and this is why pvp is dying in my opinion...
@@olfan92 poor take. The barrier to entry for WoW pvp is pretty high, people with a life have more important things to worry about than getting good at a video game 😂
Baj is a PvP legend and a Classic WoW legend with one of the most known videos of back the in day. Even Asmon's cult will not dare flame him, trust. At least no the WoW players
self healing, stuns/snares just crazy no wonder people arnt playing no n longer making most of your abilities and its a battle to get off the first stun
Not true at all? Skill over gear for sure and you don't get jack for higher rating except a glad mount.. and you get a tmog set at 1600 and a tier piece.. very doable
Here is what they are talking about: The total of games played per week by the top 5,000 players in 3v3 is abysmal. The highest point in the season was 44,548 games in one week for 5,000 players. The caveat due to 3v3 is most of these top 5,000 players play with at least two other players from the same top 5,000. Because of this, we can safely assume the real number of games is about one-third, give or take, which makes the actual total number of games approximately 14,850, or about three games per week per team. Now, if you consider the lowest point-16,403 games in a week for 5,000 players-and apply the same calculation, you get a total of about 5,468, or roughly one game per week per team. I don't know about you, but if the top 5,000 players of a game, the most engaged and those aiming to be the best, play on average only once a week, I would call that content pretty dead.
I was thinking similar. I don't think they understand how little engagement it is. Compared to league that is 10v10 I do not think I have waited over 3 minutes in normal elos. High elo can get long, but its nowhere compared to solo shuffle.
Huh? Your thinking about this all wrong. There was 44k games played each game has 6 players in, you don't then devise this down then say the actual amount of games played a week is less. You can say the amount of players playing these games is less but we already know it's only the top 5k players..... All this shows is that the top 5k players played in 44k games in 1 week. Again this only shows people above 2.2k which I'm going to guess is not a large % of the player base. I myself am 1.5k on 3 chars and have over 400 games played this season and I'm not represented in these graphs. Like as far as I'm aware if we want to do some math we take the number of games then times it by the amount of players per game then devide it by 5000 as we know that's the amount of players there pulling these numbers from (sure we can say that there may be some overlap with some players outside of the top 5k but as 2.2k is such a small % of players we can basically ignore this overlap) so math time 44k x 6 = 264k ÷ 5k = 52.8 meaning that week each player played around 52 games that week. Now let's take the low number 16.4k x 6 = 98. 4k ÷ 5k =19.6 games per player that week.
Why would people WANT to spend so much time learning the game to play PvP for so little payoff when other PvP games have way lower barrier to entry where you log in press a button and instantly play. If I spend 70% time running in circles in town and 30% in arena how is that going to beat other games?
@@andrecardoso6941 correct, the other side of the coin(which is the biggest) is that wow time is consuming in a way that other games in the pvp aspect do not have. You wait. A lot. Which as the player base ages and time gets more valuable it's time you really don't have anymore. I loved season 3 pvp for the most part but unfortunately the grind just isn't as worth it when the waits are too long.
lol, the queue times are hardly the only problem. Casuals have no interest in pvp. A lot of the players are toxic af towards those learning even in RSS. If you think current pvp is the best thing ever invented you’re probably not the guy to fix or generate new interest in it. Bellular hypes qol and patch content quite a bit, I’d hardly call him a detractor. He seems excited for solo BG queues.
Yeah the entry for PVP has gotten worse over time. People can't just jump in to arena and succeed so Arena as a mode isn't popping off either. That's why they are switching over to BGs are the primary rated PVP mode next Expac.
over the years the game just became to complicated for new players, and to demanding for older players to keep up with and give a shit about tolerating the games ups and downs. I wont log in again till that changes.
I've been playing wow since late cata and arena in mop was more punishing and had a higher learning curve than modern does now If u actually played the game maybe you would know that
@@Jacob-km4yb WoW pvp boors me. Maybe if there were more than 1500 people playing it would be more enjoyable. With the bots, hackers, Win traders that afk, and sheer complexity it is not worth the time or effort to play.
I dont understand when Pika says WoW PVP is fine its just that nobody is playing so the queue times are high. Most players = faster queues. If nobody is playing your favorite mode, then are we sure to say that the mode is actually fine and its the players who are the problem?
I only play wow for PVP. It does need help. After 1800 I am encouraged to run an boat load of addons that clutter my screen and I just don't want too. My friends say that I am hurting my progression by not doing so. Second. The class balance in PVP is really bad. I often wonder what the £10 a month is actually for. I used to thing that it was to keep the game healthy with balancing and content but now I think that the sub money is just lining peoples pockets. For a game as profitable as wow the budget given to this game is feels tiny.
I mean Is it really not fair to say the pvp devs have at the very least started putting in far less effort? No new bg in going on 3 xpacs rated bgs are a ghost town. And supposedly the mode they focus on arena is littered with bots and broken specs ruining entire seasons like season 1 ret or season 2 augmentation? It took them months just to do some simple class tuning.
Skill Capped did a _much_ better video on the subject. Their reasoning was that M+ is so popular that class design changed to satisfy M+ which as negative side effect really hurt PvP. Homogenization of Classes continue in TWW which willl hurt even more. Mages have stuns, they gave WWs even more mobility and every classes is getting more ways to do damage. The fact that Ion talked about solo rated BGs being the PvP focus going forward, it's safe to say that WoW is very close to being just a PvE game now
Battlegrounds have always been better than arena’s in my opinion. It’s just much, much more accessible for a wider audience. Another point to make, is the average gamer today doesn’t play a mode if they don’t feel rewarded, regardless of how good or bad it actually is. Back in the day your reward for being a top player in a arena/pvp was a title. Now you get one of the best looking armor sets and a unique mount if you finish in the top x% that will be removed come the season end. Mythic raiders have never had this luxury, their high level rewards stay in the game for casuals to work towards later. Most players recognise they aren’t going to finish in that high a spot for a variety of different reasons. If they just changed up the reward system, I think PvP would become much, much more popular than it is. The glad mounts should 100% be available in the Vicious saddle vendor come the end of an expansion. It’s an incentive to newer players to learn and play. The only people glads gate keeping that hurts is them selves. Time to get with the times and recognize the target audience for mmos and games in general has changed. It’s all about power and cosmetics now, and if your newer players don’t feel like they’re getting that, they aren’t going to stick around. Game modes die when you don’t have an influx of newer players sticking around. It’s really not that hard to understand. Before the multi glads start complaining “but muh mount” save your energy, I’ve seen it enough on Reddit and the forums. Ultimately, when you end up only playing the same faces and your games inevitably get harder, and longer to get in to, you’ll have no one but to blame than your own stubbornness. Gaming industry changed. It is what it is, we ain’t kids anymore and theirs a new target audience.
In my opinion WoW PvP is not that popular as other PvP games as LoL, Dota, etc. is because it does not fit usual PvP experience, you pop CDs and there is no DMG being applied, or accurately it was applied, but was blocked by defensives and healed by HOTs. There is reason that all those abillities in LoL has different animations and sounds. Big factor also is that in Dota (I am talking about Dota because I did not play League) balancing is different from WoW, instead of having everything on every hero, you try to play to your bests with whatever you have, means that even good player can be easily killed by not that much experienced player, in WoW though not so much due to your class having so much. Why I am talking about all this? Because for me it was always that particular reason, that you do not feel the game, I have played some seasons of PVP, but always quit to play Dota as games are full of CCs (very few classes have immunities as in Dota BKB gives immunity to ccs) so playing against experienced Mage is miserable, I am talking from melee perspective. On the other hand Dota still gives you hope of winning, which cannot be said about WoW healthbars barely moving through all CDs being popped as they counter popped defensives. Also animations on healthbars suck, I do have strong need of seeing enemy healthbar being chunked in pretty nice way!
It’s no where near the level of games like LoL and DoTA. Idk what Baj is even talking about how wow arenas are the best in any game. I feel like he defends it too hard because it’s his content
@@ugadawgs831 I do think that he talks about overall feeling, which is superior imo as it is much more complex and harder tbh. For me main thing WoW lacks are visuals and sounds that represent spells in much better way than now (why mage pressing combustion does not have some sound effect?), that is main difference for me from DotA, every spell has its visuals and sound there. Not fun to monitor icons on OmniBar, more exciting to see and hear some cool effect about rogue pressing dance. It can even start from essential spells and add up to not overwhelm existing players.
Been playing wow since day one PvP has never been that popular it’s always been dwarfed massively. It’s now full of 24/7 players or cheaters. I tried to go back and PvP and it’s constant fears, stuns and dying to people you can’t damage.
So the original video was a reaction to the state of WoW. Followed up by a reaction to that video. Then a reaction to that reaction. And then someone decided that needed a reaction. I really hope that someone reacts to this video.
I keep my UI as classical as I possibly can. I'm like an apocalypse planner because, yeah, some day those addons are gonna get taken away. Those training wheels are gonna come off, then what're you gonna do? Addons are the biggest scourge to PVP and even PVE, and it's allowed the developers to really slack in the UI department, in the telegraph department, because they know some neck-beard programmer is gonna shell out an aura or addon that will track stuff you need to be aware of. And the addons add such a level of JANK to the visual experience. I'm not just talking about screen clutter, but the frames look like frames you would see in a 90s video game, not a 2024 video game. Remember how excited we all where when the introduced the new UI stuff for Dragonflight? How nice it looks-- granted some people still use custom stuff like elvui, but now more people have been able to migrate back to what the game offers because it actually looks like something you would have in a modern game. Blizz devs have communicated their long journey toward UI improvement, and I completely understand that you can't fix the addon vs no-addon problem over night. You need to create a frame work that can eliminate the need for addons. We need to see a blizzard DPS meter-- I know it leads to toxicity between players, but it also gives players goals. We need to see more boss telegraphs for incoming mechanics or if you're standing in something. The "AOE Incoming" or "Defensive", etc... voice callouts from DBM are a complete failing on Blizz's part. I would really like to see PVE get super dumbed down so that DBM can be deleted. Get the addons out! Blizz adding map pings has just about killed tom tom. They're taking steps in the right direction.
They will never delete all add-ons. The amount of quality of life and money the addon devs save blizzard is more then people realize. Blizzard hasnt updated the lfg window yet lmao.
I gotta say im with Baj and Pika on a ton of this, but there are some very overt issues in PvP that aren't getting addressed. First off WoWnite was absolutely terrible and destroyed the end of the season because people wanted to chase a pirate MoG. Even in LFG, the pool is virtually non-existent. Everyone requires Multi Rank 1 Glad exp. Then I go check my friends list, and they are all spread out between Classic, SoD, WoWnite, and yes, some have even jumped ship to Overwatch. These are all PvP only players in retail. The few who have stuck it out are happy to sit 1hr Qs in SS while waiting to get carried by a DH to 1800 for the MoG. I usually sit between 1800-2k after that it gets too sweaty and less fun for me. I run every class every season to MoG chase but finding people to do that with is getting next to impossible and I dont have 3hrs to sit in Q for someone to leave and tank my rating. Also, I disagree about PvE nonsense. I preferred TBC resilience gear. Personally, I think if you step in arena with a single piece of PvE kit your character should just fall over and insta die. You want PvP kit kill people and get it.
31:00 Love hearing PvPers complain about getting 2 other people together, meanwhile mythic raiders just casually scheduling 19 other people for 10+ hours a week.
rwvry You legit just Q 2 arenas and log off? Why are there no PvP guilds? Because PvPers don't play wow. The world is just a lobby they wait in for the Q to pop. Never joined a guild, never interacted with professions, never bought a consumable in their life, couldn't find a dungeon entrance if they tried.
What makes pvp hard to get into is you have a fifty fifty chance on playing someone on your level or playing against a pro on your first games.. Imagine goin to the park with your kids to practice some tennis and your first practice game is against the Williams sisters, I think you would quit... Need an intro level system into pvp.
Bellular's out here pumping out daily videos hyping up war within and interviewing Holly Longdale gushing about the future of warcraft and people call them hate farmers, you can't make this shit up lol
I dont think belluar is a hate farmer but the vid where he was talking about wow pvp being dead its pretty apparent that he didn't do much research to even begin with. His biggest point was that when he googled something about pvp, he got a search result for pve instead.
You can't really ignore the fact he and other's have does that in the past and still do on occasion now, you can't look at a few vids and be like "see they don't do this or that". I mean all content creators do it though so meh, it's not a big deal that and i find the defense force for e-celbs such an odd thing.
@@TakaChan569 He's called out bad content and patches but that's cool, I think they get too worked up over store mounts and stuff but outside of that they're constantly pumping this games tires. I'd say the way the development is proceeding it's almost as though he has managements ear.
Bro wow in no shape way or form delivers the best PvP experience lol. Not even close, it might be your favorite but that's completely subjective, and it's reflected exactly in the queue times. Pika said it himself you can't queue the game! Why? Because no one's playing obviously lol
Ya, this was so funny and felt like they were not really self aware in making these comments, a bit butt hurt hearing people hate on their favourite content; what's worse was probably finding out their channels are huge, bring in actual WoW team members and likely influence the actual development of the game lol.
Great Vid! Pikas Turkey must be moist atleast. We need your help Baj. Every aspect of PvP is in shambles, and Blizz won’t lift a finger for more than sub par mmr adjustments and out of touch class tuning. Class tuning is too little too late despite feedback. MMR needs further tuning. No new BGs for 6yrs. Regular BGs and Epics are over run by Premade Communities. Every Epic BG is untuned as seasons progress leading to soloing bosses and 3 min zerge wins. The low level PvP brackets are overrun by scaled down level 70s with template stats that are wayy too strong, Twinks, and Premades. Sharding in Warmode needs adjustment. New content zones need 30% more players and Legacy Zones impacted by Chromie time need Sharding removed all together since you only see like 3 hostile players from lvl 1-70 and they’re not your lvl. Literally every area of PVP play is lacking the most basic of maintenance needs. They’ve thrown us in the trash, and with Hero Talents coming PvP is gonna be a 💩 show in TWW. Baj, I know Arena and RBGs are your main squeeze but, it would be great if you’d use your platform to call out all of these issues and ask some of the other PvP content creators to join in. We’re not going to see any changes otherwise, it’s been 6yrs. With TWW coming up they’re going to have too much on their plate to fix this stuff, this is kinda our window of opportunity. I’ve been working with some other people and a few Community Council Members on the WoW Forums to try to have this stuff addressed. If anyone cares about the health of PvP overall and wants to lend a hand the post is titled “PvP Issues Organized Megathread Plea for Aid to Community Council and Blizzard”..
I'm massively excited for the PvP mindset to go towards Rated RBG's, it's about time Blizzard finally listened to Soloq, but man, arenas just aren't a huge appeal to most people. They want BG mechanics and the teamfights to be the major draw towards PvP. I think it'll make for some incredible content and builds.
yeah cuz wow has 13 chars with 20 buttons and league has 168chars with 4 buttons also 4 buttons char is understatement cuz you build talents and items specificly for that char its like wow spec
@@Raikenden1 WoW has 39 chars with 30+ buttons. Each of these chars has different talent choices it can make in its own right. If we are going to discuss this then at least get it right.
Asmons point here was spot on. His whole point here was that league doesn't try to balance its character for multiple game modes. League only balances and designs characters for Summoners Rift. They aren't focused on making the game balanced for ARAM, URF, or any rotational modes like the new arena modes. (They do have minor tweaks for the side game modes.) WOW has to balance the characters around BGs, arena, and PVE. For a class with a good arena kit, it might be garbage for CTF. These are two completely different modes. It might be closer to compare balancing a jungler to a support in League since they have different goals during the game.
That league can't even keep its game balanced either with less buttons and only 1 game mode to balance. So what is the point of the reduction of bloat? Why change the game to fit for people who have no prospect of even playing WoW to begin with? WoW will never reach these people. The people who play WoW like WoW. I remember how Asmon went on rants on how Blizzard was changing the game to fit those who didn't even play WoW. Now here we are, Asmon suggesting that WoW should change to be more like League and Valorant. But also Plunderstorm was bad because...? Isn't that exactly what he asked for? No addons, less buttons, easy to understand from an observers pov. I think he doesn't know either tbh.
1:16:31 If it was an objective based game mode then the tiny minutia that happens between the players wouldn't be the only thing for spectators to latch on to.
Pika- “who is Bellular, who are you guys” I was F’n rollin!!! Like couldn’t stop laughing so hard!!!! 😆🤣😂😂😂😂 Pika is the coolest, most REAL dude!!! Plus the BEST pvp’er in my opinion.
the worst change ever done was upgrading pvp honor gear with flystones. forcing people to do pve content while i just want to farm and roam battlegrounds.
Still watching... this video is fascinating, it's watching two people in denial about the state of their favourite content, one of them saying Balance is the key, the other saying balance is not the problem, it's the queue times! Pika being massively triggered at people who don't play PvP saying they don't care about it and how they think it's dead.... then These guys saying it's not dead, it's the best content, you just can't queue for it or find people to do it, but trust us, it's not dead.
Pika is sort of right about all other games being just as confusing, but like for league i feel like they've done better at guiding players on what build and items to use. I used to have to go on a website every game to check a champs build and now the game has the three most popular ones in the client. I'm sure other games are doing better too, but i don't see much of it in wow.
Having watched since way back. Before the Swifty situation which hurt to see back then. It's an amazing feeling seeing you still be you and call things out the way you see them. The Asmonxarpika analysis was pure gold. Also with this many povs it's an easy way for you to create a hilarious podcast vibe without needing to schedule etc. I'd vids like these about pvp consistently. Keep the Bajh vibe alive. Not that many consistently positive RETAIL forces left. Love from Sweden
Bell and Matt are definitely not hate farmers. The clip they're viewing was in the middle of one of their very long friday, basically podcast, things where they just talk about big things that have popped up in WoW that week. The pvp info had come out so they were taking a look at it and trying to see what it meant. Neither have claimed to be pvpers and they were just looking and trying to figure out the numbers. They've been extremely positive about WoW for nearly all of DF.
to me this just points out there is a huge waste of resources if only 5k people are hitting above 2200. Sounds like blizzard needs to really look at where they are wasting resources for awards above 2k.
I played PVP for years (since wotlk) and I've got to say that nowadays being a father/husband it's difficult to get into. None of my friends play anymore and trying to find a group in group finder is next to impossible sometimes. I was really hoping solo shuffle was going to be the answer, and it was for a bit, but the queue times are just nuts. Feels bad to only have an hour or so to play and the majority of that is either spent waiting in queue or playing half of a shuffle because someone left. I do also agree that Blizz has to attempt to make PVP easier to watch so we're not just staring at people with 30 add-ons and 5-10 alerts going off on screen. I wish they could make the base game look more like it does during AWC with cool graphics and simpler to follow UI.
I’ve been a 90% pvp player for like 15 years and in dragonflight finally started raiding (it is fun with the right guild) because I felt like pvp was hopeless.
Played dps from BC to S2 DF. Que times toward the end of s2 and all of s3 led me to hard switch to being a healer. Huge learning curve but I’m glad to help others and myself play more games. I don’t plan to switch until some work has been implemented for dps rollers
Might be a hot take but I think I actually prefer Tbc days when just because 1 dps died didnt mean the match was just instantly over. The hp was so low and everyones burst was so strong towards the end you could 2v3 quite often if played well and it felt really good imo
I would absolutely love to be able to play any class/spec I want without having to diligently maintain alts every week. For either pushing keys or pvp. As it stands it feels most rewards are more based off of how much time you drop into the game, more skill based rewards would keep a TR setup alive for more casual players.
I liked PvP in wotlk, doing WG, the specs changed a lot by Cata, especially Paladins, still was enjoying it then doing Tol'Barad, after those two expansions the game had changed waaay too much for me to keep playing it, it was barely recognizable, but ALWAYS PvP was a secondary thing to do in the game after all PvE dailies and weeklies had been done, it was never the main focus of the game, I definitely didn't login to sweat and try-hard in Arenas
Good video in my opinion, blizzard should eliminate some abilities from the wow classes, to reduce the number of icons in the interface, and also lower the micro ccs
Its really funny how people make big sweeping opinions about this stuff and it doesn't help the community grow. I have met plenty of new wow pvpers playing the game. The game is popping right now and so is pvp. Queue times are not taking long because its "dead" they take a long time because there are objectively way more dps then healers in queue. So if you are dps its gonna take a minute. I log onto my healer and its insta pop most of the time. Atm i play in the 1800-2100 bracket of players and its pretty fun. Part of the fun of this game is the complexity. This is a rpg not a moba and if it was so easy to just hit 4 buttons and boom thats your class takes out so much fun out of these types of games. WoW pvp doesn't need to be for everybody, it needs to be for people that like this type of pvp. But alot of people act like there isn't new players or interested players in the content meanwhile we have shit loads of matches going a day. So many video games wish they had a pvp pop that was playing that many matches. The other day, i was leveling in cata on a alt and ran into a group of 6-8 15 - 17 year old high school kids dueling each other trying to get better having fun. I am sure there are more players like that out there, and thats not even counting vet players like me who havent played in a minute returning to the game to pvp. The pvp is pretty damn fun but idk maybe i am just a shill.
@@MotoCoreSteve I play normally around 9-12 est, weekends ill play through the night mostly solo shuffle and 2's. In solo shuffle most i have to wait as a dps is 18-20 min but thats on the longer end ususally when you get skipped over. Also mmr plays a big part in it. Like my 1800 mmr is going to pop faster then my 2100 characters just because there are less players higher you go up.
I personally haven’t done a single solo shuffle yet. But all the feedback I’ve got from friends, glads, my community is it’s not as great as people made it out to be. Give it a year or two we’re gunna have solo raids 😂
I do think objective based PvP is more popular across all competitive gaming. Planting/defusing bombs in tactical shooters over deathmatch etc. With WoW BG's would probably be more accessible to not only watch and grasp but play as well
I want blizz to fix and inject mmr for participation levels. Not being able to climb to the same or higher ratings 1 season to the next based on participation is garbage.
I think you bring up some great points here, even just for life in general it is very easy to fall into a rut of negative confirmation bias. Like how people try to point out how its almost like uncool to try something or enjoy something, especially so if that makes people reflect on themselves and how they don't try and attempting to make you feel like you are foolish for doing something. Even in fitness and things of that nature. That is why its important to have people in your life that support your goals but also help you affirm that they are the things you do want.
• The sandwich • Your reactions • The memes Heck Baj I forgot how wholesome you are, how funny you are and how entertaining you are. Please keep it up! Love the reactions. Side note. I’m subbed to Asmond and yourself and I love any and all videos with my two favourite wowtubers.
THe problem isn't the PvP types of matches/modes, it's the MMR system in it's entirety. The damn PvP system is also tied to PVE, which is STUPID AF. You shouldn't have to do ANYTHING pve related for maxing out PvP gear. period. There are many flaws.
i think the reason the numbers dip in the first few weeks of the season is because people are are realizing they are not going to make progress playing against multi glads since everybodys rating resets to 0. thats why we see a peak around 8 - 9 weeks because people are returning after waiting for the multi glads to get out of the way, because who wants to compete against multi glads in the 1600 bracket all day
The reason the numbers look so good is because you're not considering alts and players with multiple accounts. 50 pages of players right? how many of those are being played by the same person? The answer is a shit load. All you gotta do is play the game and you can see participation is awful.
As somebody who has been playing WOW since EverQuest, got Glad Season 2 and Pika saying "Balance" isn't an issue. That is false, Blizzard does a piss poor job at balancing. They need to do it in small changes, see what is dominating or what classes are unplayable in the meta and make SMALL adjustments accordingly. They are doing obvious Flavor of the Month GOD tier classes, people buy a BOOST, cookie cut the meta and spam it. It's pretty obvious that is a massive issue. When the Ret Rework hell took over the meta so many people either left or went Ret. They need to work on the balancing and they can't just let shit get out of control. If what I'm saying is false there wouldn't be such thing as "FLAVOR OF THE MONTH"
Once again i got the urge to play the game. This was the video i needed lol. Still the same issues i've had since i've started. Like pika said "The biggest problem this game has is that you literally can not play the game".
Too many people think Asmond is the WoW master and knows all, the guy hasn't played WoW seriously in almost 7 years hasn't PvP'd at all, he's a react channel with a terrible take on a game he no longer plays or loves.
I'm a filthy casual. I like wow pvp. It isn't dead for me. I just suck at the game and guess what? That's ok! But the bit about WoW being the best game that you can't play is so spot on. Even at my filthy bs rank (best I ever achieved was 1800 solo shuffle in season 1, I tend to hover around 1500-1600 tho) it takes way too long for me to get into a game man... And it feels real bad. If they could just get games to be less of a wait to get in, the bad games/losses wouldn't feel so bad. This is why random BGs feel fun: I don't have to wait long to get into them, usually. Honestly if they fixed the queue times... it would just make it all fun for me, all around, and allow my casual ass to get beat up in ranked content and love it lol.
I'm super casual too. I haven't played much of df at all but now if I wanted to pvp I can only imagine what whispers I get for not knowing how the game works right now lol
Literally if a "wow killer " mmo comes out and it doesnt have a form of arena it just will never do it. Arena still the most unique pvp exp out of all games
When was the last time a new map or game type was added? We get 10-20 new bosses and dungeons and such per expansion but we still playing on war song gulch my dude!!!
I would love to see wow separating pvp and pve like FF14 does. In FF14 each class has an fixed collection of skills and things like gear or level does not play any part. Every warrior in pvp should have the same skills and stats so that only the player skill decides who wins and the developer could balance things without any fear of breaking the pve side.
never would've imagined there would come a day where streamers started to react to streamers reacting to streamers reacting to streamers, the inception levels are crazy and its probably only going to get worse...
Issues i have always had is finding people that I can play with and vibe with, that are the right class and spec on at the right times. 2nd when your designing class trees it's dang near impossible to make the pve and pvp players happy at the same time on where some nods are. Just make separate tress for each piece of content then tune them separate. It get really old hearing pve get mad at pvp for where stuff is and vice verse.
Yea that’s my main issue in pvp right now. I would gladly spend months on end grinding for glad and other rewards but it’s just hard to find players healers mostly. I wish which I know may never happen they would make glad accessible through the solo ques. I know that’s an unpopular take but I feel it would be the same if not harder you know.
Incel? Self-awareness isn't your strength... You're watching a guy react to a guy react to a guy reacting to two guys about World of Warcraft PvP, and you have the audacity to conclude someone (who has dated attractive women) is an Incel because you disagree with their angle/point-of-view. Bravo, bravo, people like you are why RUclips Comment sections remain a cesspool of idiocy.
he always brings up weird crap lol, he has to know most wow players play for fun, no one pvps thinking they gonna be "esports" he has such terrible debating skills, brings up random stuff.
I guess Bajheera is saying that we are such simplistic creatures that we let a random youtuber decide whether or not we play the game based on whether or not they say something negative or positive about the game.
Asmond: shitting on wow pvp
Bellular: confused about what they are looking at
Pika: looking at the data for what it is
Bajheera: scoping out pika's ability to eat a sandwich
😂😂😂
It's an honest work
The perfect summary for this video.
Asmon disgusting casual who is clueless
😂
This is basically a youtube zoom meeting.
I love finally seeing Belluar and his team called out on there bullshit
theyre just like those sports analysts that dont really play sports, or really did, or got far, but sit there talking based on supposed data like they experts
@@balancebreaker1561 They've been like that for years. Bellular's opinion hasn't been worth anything more than dirt.
Well if u think pvp is alive it's a joke in itself it's in the worst state ever but hey keep dreaming :P
Pvp is ded af. unless u have 3's partners. There right its the worst state its been in since i started.
@@balancebreaker1561 so like you? Bellular still sucks though
As someone who has been here for YEARS! I support more baj reacts content, you are super entertaining to hear when its reacting to what you are watching
I love how you clocked the protein on Pika’s sandwich 😂😂
Yeah but that prob the only thing he'll eat all day. That sammich is prob dry as hell
PvP is dying because nobody wants to waste their time with MMR.
Win 1 game, gain 14 points, lose 1 game, lose 50 points. Waste of time
If we look at it that way playing video games is already a waste of time.
ur actually wrong unless ur win/loss ratio is far in the negatives (below a 50% win rate), u almost never lose more rating than u gain otherwise, it just does not happen like that due to inflation over time. No one wants to Q arenas because its mostly dead or full of sweaty 2400-r1 xp players from 1800mmr and up, and solo shuffle is the result of this, this DID NOT happen and be a whole expansion long thing before solo shuffle was implemented, shadowlands was not like this, it had its own problems but not this problem, solo shuffle is by far the easiest way to gain honor, conquest and arena achievements, including the elite transmog(s) and pvp enchant(s) while regular arena is a much slower process, and now a much harder process because of the result of solo shuffles "pros". Thats why its a waste of time. And for the record, solo shuffle sucks too because ur playing with a bunch of trigger happy tunnel vision sweaties that have no logic to their gameplay...and this is why pvp is dying in my opinion...
Facts
just dont die then and git gud
@@olfan92 poor take. The barrier to entry for WoW pvp is pretty high, people with a life have more important things to worry about than getting good at a video game 😂
DAMN. I just watch a video of Bajheera reacting to Pikka reacting to asmon reacting to bellular
It's so stupid
@@Apotheosis1113speak for yourself. I personally loved this video
4 reactions in 1 video, eventually we going to have a 10-man raid group size reaction videos.
Asmon just asked Graycen for glad carries, he was never good at PvP. Asmon explicitly stated this many times.
feel like baj is trying to be too nice so the asmon cult doesnt attack him
100% can notice he’s irritated by the nonsense but he’s a real one for keeping his cool.
Baj is a PvP legend and a Classic WoW legend with one of the most known videos of back the in day. Even Asmon's cult will not dare flame him, trust. At least no the WoW players
Asmo is like 95% right on his takes. No reason to be hatsh with him at a topic he didn’t touch for a long time.
@@Chris-pt8zbNo he isn’t you clown 💀💀💀
Bro that bit where he was talking about Valorant E Girls made me want to cringe out of my chair. This is a grown man. What the hell?
reasons:
- original ashran gone
- gear over skill
- long queue times
- neglected "casual" pvp
- only rewards for top % rated pvpers
🤷♂
Original ashran xD?
gear over skill when it is normalized?
self healing, stuns/snares just crazy no wonder people arnt playing no n longer making most of your abilities and its a battle to get off the first stun
@@user-wd7iq5dt9fyou have e a point, every single class in the game are capable of healing now, its just not fun
Not true at all? Skill over gear for sure and you don't get jack for higher rating except a glad mount.. and you get a tmog set at 1600 and a tier piece.. very doable
Here is what they are talking about:
The total of games played per week by the top 5,000 players in 3v3 is abysmal.
The highest point in the season was 44,548 games in one week for 5,000 players.
The caveat due to 3v3 is most of these top 5,000 players play with at least two other players from the same top 5,000. Because of this, we can safely assume the real number of games is about one-third, give or take, which makes the actual total number of games approximately 14,850, or about three games per week per team.
Now, if you consider the lowest point-16,403 games in a week for 5,000 players-and apply the same calculation, you get a total of about 5,468, or roughly one game per week per team. I don't know about you, but if the top 5,000 players of a game, the most engaged and those aiming to be the best, play on average only once a week, I would call that content pretty dead.
I was thinking similar. I don't think they understand how little engagement it is. Compared to league that is 10v10 I do not think I have waited over 3 minutes in normal elos. High elo can get long, but its nowhere compared to solo shuffle.
Huh? Your thinking about this all wrong. There was 44k games played each game has 6 players in, you don't then devise this down then say the actual amount of games played a week is less. You can say the amount of players playing these games is less but we already know it's only the top 5k players..... All this shows is that the top 5k players played in 44k games in 1 week. Again this only shows people above 2.2k which I'm going to guess is not a large % of the player base. I myself am 1.5k on 3 chars and have over 400 games played this season and I'm not represented in these graphs. Like as far as I'm aware if we want to do some math we take the number of games then times it by the amount of players per game then devide it by 5000 as we know that's the amount of players there pulling these numbers from (sure we can say that there may be some overlap with some players outside of the top 5k but as 2.2k is such a small % of players we can basically ignore this overlap) so math time 44k x 6 = 264k ÷ 5k = 52.8 meaning that week each player played around 52 games that week. Now let's take the low number 16.4k x 6 = 98. 4k ÷ 5k =19.6 games per player that week.
Why would people WANT to spend so much time learning the game to play PvP for so little payoff when other PvP games have way lower barrier to entry where you log in press a button and instantly play. If I spend 70% time running in circles in town and 30% in arena how is that going to beat other games?
You need to put time in every game if you want to be good. It doesn’t matter what game it is.
If that is the only factor, sure. But it isn't
@@andrecardoso6941 Yeah but every other god damn pvp game has easier entry is than wow pvp and when we talk about mmorpg games gw2 has better pvp
@@andrecardoso6941 correct, the other side of the coin(which is the biggest) is that wow time is consuming in a way that other games in the pvp aspect do not have. You wait. A lot. Which as the player base ages and time gets more valuable it's time you really don't have anymore. I loved season 3 pvp for the most part but unfortunately the grind just isn't as worth it when the waits are too long.
@andrecardoso6941 Mouth breather with 0 comprehension
lol, the queue times are hardly the only problem. Casuals have no interest in pvp. A lot of the players are toxic af towards those learning even in RSS. If you think current pvp is the best thing ever invented you’re probably not the guy to fix or generate new interest in it.
Bellular hypes qol and patch content quite a bit, I’d hardly call him a detractor. He seems excited for solo BG queues.
Yeah the entry for PVP has gotten worse over time. People can't just jump in to arena and succeed so Arena as a mode isn't popping off either. That's why they are switching over to BGs are the primary rated PVP mode next Expac.
over the years the game just became to complicated for new players, and to demanding for older players to keep up with and give a shit about tolerating the games ups and downs. I wont log in again till that changes.
I've been playing wow since late cata and arena in mop was more punishing and had a higher learning curve than modern does now
If u actually played the game maybe you would know that
@@Jacob-km4yb WoW pvp boors me. Maybe if there were more than 1500 people playing it would be more enjoyable. With the bots, hackers, Win traders that afk, and sheer complexity it is not worth the time or effort to play.
I dont understand when Pika says WoW PVP is fine its just that nobody is playing so the queue times are high. Most players = faster queues. If nobody is playing your favorite mode, then are we sure to say that the mode is actually fine and its the players who are the problem?
Exactly! Spot on
He is just getting triggered from hearing the truth. It is actually a normal reaction when you know its the truth but hard to accept.
I only play wow for PVP. It does need help. After 1800 I am encouraged to run an boat load of addons that clutter my screen and I just don't want too. My friends say that I am hurting my progression by not doing so. Second. The class balance in PVP is really bad. I often wonder what the £10 a month is actually for. I used to thing that it was to keep the game healthy with balancing and content but now I think that the sub money is just lining peoples pockets. For a game as profitable as wow the budget given to this game is feels tiny.
I mean Is it really not fair to say the pvp devs have at the very least started putting in far less effort? No new bg in going on 3 xpacs rated bgs are a ghost town.
And supposedly the mode they focus on arena is littered with bots and broken specs ruining entire seasons like season 1 ret or season 2 augmentation? It took them months just to do some simple class tuning.
Why are there 2 guys that don’t even PvP doing there? Their opinion is irrelevant.
Skill Capped did a _much_ better video on the subject. Their reasoning was that M+ is so popular that class design changed to satisfy M+ which as negative side effect really hurt PvP.
Homogenization of Classes continue in TWW which willl hurt even more. Mages have stuns, they gave WWs even more mobility and every classes is getting more ways to do damage.
The fact that Ion talked about solo rated BGs being the PvP focus going forward, it's safe to say that WoW is very close to being just a PvE game now
False. Youre just as much of a goober as the bellular. Stop it.
Battlegrounds have always been better than arena’s in my opinion. It’s just much, much more accessible for a wider audience.
Another point to make, is the average gamer today doesn’t play a mode if they don’t feel rewarded, regardless of how good or bad it actually is.
Back in the day your reward for being a top player in a arena/pvp was a title. Now you get one of the best looking armor sets and a unique mount if you finish in the top x% that will be removed come the season end. Mythic raiders have never had this luxury, their high level rewards stay in the game for casuals to work towards later.
Most players recognise they aren’t going to finish in that high a spot for a variety of different reasons. If they just changed up the reward system, I think PvP would become much, much more popular than it is. The glad mounts should 100% be available in the Vicious saddle vendor come the end of an expansion. It’s an incentive to newer players to learn and play. The only people glads gate keeping that hurts is them selves.
Time to get with the times and recognize the target audience for mmos and games in general has changed. It’s all about power and cosmetics now, and if your newer players don’t feel like they’re getting that, they aren’t going to stick around. Game modes die when you don’t have an influx of newer players sticking around. It’s really not that hard to understand.
Before the multi glads start complaining “but muh mount” save your energy, I’ve seen it enough on Reddit and the forums.
Ultimately, when you end up only playing the same faces and your games inevitably get harder, and longer to get in to, you’ll have no one but to blame than your own stubbornness. Gaming industry changed. It is what it is, we ain’t kids anymore and theirs a new target audience.
In my opinion WoW PvP is not that popular as other PvP games as LoL, Dota, etc. is because it does not fit usual PvP experience, you pop CDs and there is no DMG being applied, or accurately it was applied, but was blocked by defensives and healed by HOTs. There is reason that all those abillities in LoL has different animations and sounds. Big factor also is that in Dota (I am talking about Dota because I did not play League) balancing is different from WoW, instead of having everything on every hero, you try to play to your bests with whatever you have, means that even good player can be easily killed by not that much experienced player, in WoW though not so much due to your class having so much.
Why I am talking about all this? Because for me it was always that particular reason, that you do not feel the game, I have played some seasons of PVP, but always quit to play Dota as games are full of CCs (very few classes have immunities as in Dota BKB gives immunity to ccs) so playing against experienced Mage is miserable, I am talking from melee perspective. On the other hand Dota still gives you hope of winning, which cannot be said about WoW healthbars barely moving through all CDs being popped as they counter popped defensives. Also animations on healthbars suck, I do have strong need of seeing enemy healthbar being chunked in pretty nice way!
It’s no where near the level of games like LoL and DoTA. Idk what Baj is even talking about how wow arenas are the best in any game. I feel like he defends it too hard because it’s his content
@@ugadawgs831 I do think that he talks about overall feeling, which is superior imo as it is much more complex and harder tbh. For me main thing WoW lacks are visuals and sounds that represent spells in much better way than now (why mage pressing combustion does not have some sound effect?), that is main difference for me from DotA, every spell has its visuals and sound there. Not fun to monitor icons on OmniBar, more exciting to see and hear some cool effect about rogue pressing dance. It can even start from essential spells and add up to not overwhelm existing players.
Pvp was slowly dying since Blizzard Nerfed resilience back 2013 . Right before Warlords of Draenor came out .
A discord call with all 5 of you debating this topic would be such a goated video
Been playing wow since day one PvP has never been that popular it’s always been dwarfed massively. It’s now full of 24/7 players or cheaters. I tried to go back and PvP and it’s constant fears, stuns and dying to people you can’t damage.
So the original video was a reaction to the state of WoW. Followed up by a reaction to that video. Then a reaction to that reaction. And then someone decided that needed a reaction.
I really hope that someone reacts to this video.
you are right now
@@helmanredd1414 mine was an observation not a reaction.
Waiting on Xaryu or Venruki.
@@ste5775 okay?
I keep my UI as classical as I possibly can. I'm like an apocalypse planner because, yeah, some day those addons are gonna get taken away. Those training wheels are gonna come off, then what're you gonna do?
Addons are the biggest scourge to PVP and even PVE, and it's allowed the developers to really slack in the UI department, in the telegraph department, because they know some neck-beard programmer is gonna shell out an aura or addon that will track stuff you need to be aware of. And the addons add such a level of JANK to the visual experience. I'm not just talking about screen clutter, but the frames look like frames you would see in a 90s video game, not a 2024 video game.
Remember how excited we all where when the introduced the new UI stuff for Dragonflight? How nice it looks-- granted some people still use custom stuff like elvui, but now more people have been able to migrate back to what the game offers because it actually looks like something you would have in a modern game.
Blizz devs have communicated their long journey toward UI improvement, and I completely understand that you can't fix the addon vs no-addon problem over night. You need to create a frame work that can eliminate the need for addons. We need to see a blizzard DPS meter-- I know it leads to toxicity between players, but it also gives players goals. We need to see more boss telegraphs for incoming mechanics or if you're standing in something. The "AOE Incoming" or "Defensive", etc... voice callouts from DBM are a complete failing on Blizz's part.
I would really like to see PVE get super dumbed down so that DBM can be deleted. Get the addons out! Blizz adding map pings has just about killed tom tom. They're taking steps in the right direction.
They will never delete all add-ons. The amount of quality of life and money the addon devs save blizzard is more then people realize. Blizzard hasnt updated the lfg window yet lmao.
I gotta say im with Baj and Pika on a ton of this, but there are some very overt issues in PvP that aren't getting addressed. First off WoWnite was absolutely terrible and destroyed the end of the season because people wanted to chase a pirate MoG. Even in LFG, the pool is virtually non-existent. Everyone requires Multi Rank 1 Glad exp. Then I go check my friends list, and they are all spread out between Classic, SoD, WoWnite, and yes, some have even jumped ship to Overwatch. These are all PvP only players in retail. The few who have stuck it out are happy to sit 1hr Qs in SS while waiting to get carried by a DH to 1800 for the MoG. I usually sit between 1800-2k after that it gets too sweaty and less fun for me. I run every class every season to MoG chase but finding people to do that with is getting next to impossible and I dont have 3hrs to sit in Q for someone to leave and tank my rating. Also, I disagree about PvE nonsense. I preferred TBC resilience gear. Personally, I think if you step in arena with a single piece of PvE kit your character should just fall over and insta die. You want PvP kit kill people and get it.
31:00 Love hearing PvPers complain about getting 2 other people together, meanwhile mythic raiders just casually scheduling 19 other people for 10+ hours a week.
rwvry You legit just Q 2 arenas and log off? Why are there no PvP guilds? Because PvPers don't play wow. The world is just a lobby they wait in for the Q to pop. Never joined a guild, never interacted with professions, never bought a consumable in their life, couldn't find a dungeon entrance if they tried.
What makes pvp hard to get into is you have a fifty fifty chance on playing someone on your level or playing against a pro on your first games.. Imagine goin to the park with your kids to practice some tennis and your first practice game is against the Williams sisters, I think you would quit... Need an intro level system into pvp.
" Who is Belluar" New favorite Pika quote
Bellular's out here pumping out daily videos hyping up war within and interviewing Holly Longdale gushing about the future of warcraft and people call them hate farmers, you can't make this shit up lol
I think it could be channel envy, I mean until recently the last time I heard about Bahjeera was like around 2008 when Swifty was big.
I dont think belluar is a hate farmer but the vid where he was talking about wow pvp being dead its pretty apparent that he didn't do much research to even begin with. His biggest point was that when he googled something about pvp, he got a search result for pve instead.
You can't really ignore the fact he and other's have does that in the past and still do on occasion now, you can't look at a few vids and be like "see they don't do this or that". I mean all content creators do it though so meh, it's not a big deal that and i find the defense force for e-celbs such an odd thing.
@@TakaChan569 He's called out bad content and patches but that's cool, I think they get too worked up over store mounts and stuff but outside of that they're constantly pumping this games tires. I'd say the way the development is proceeding it's almost as though he has managements ear.
@@mikaelbentley9870 I think you put too much stock in what devs think of content creator's ideas.
Bro wow in no shape way or form delivers the best PvP experience lol. Not even close, it might be your favorite but that's completely subjective, and it's reflected exactly in the queue times. Pika said it himself you can't queue the game! Why? Because no one's playing obviously lol
Ya, this was so funny and felt like they were not really self aware in making these comments, a bit butt hurt hearing people hate on their favourite content; what's worse was probably finding out their channels are huge, bring in actual WoW team members and likely influence the actual development of the game lol.
In all curiousity what kind of rpg has better pvp? WoW's PvP is crazy good, it's just old
Great Vid! Pikas Turkey must be moist atleast.
We need your help Baj.
Every aspect of PvP is in shambles, and Blizz won’t lift a finger for more than sub par mmr adjustments and out of touch class tuning.
Class tuning is too little too late despite feedback.
MMR needs further tuning.
No new BGs for 6yrs.
Regular BGs and Epics are over run by Premade Communities.
Every Epic BG is untuned as seasons progress leading to soloing bosses and 3 min zerge wins.
The low level PvP brackets are overrun by scaled down level 70s with template stats that are wayy too strong, Twinks, and Premades.
Sharding in Warmode needs adjustment. New content zones need 30% more players and Legacy Zones impacted by Chromie time need Sharding removed all together since you only see like 3 hostile players from lvl 1-70 and they’re not your lvl.
Literally every area of PVP play is lacking the most basic of maintenance needs. They’ve thrown us in the trash, and with Hero Talents coming PvP is gonna be a 💩 show in TWW.
Baj, I know Arena and RBGs are your main squeeze but, it would be great if you’d use your platform to call out all of these issues and ask some of the other PvP content creators to join in. We’re not going to see any changes otherwise, it’s been 6yrs. With TWW coming up they’re going to have too much on their plate to fix this stuff, this is kinda our window of opportunity.
I’ve been working with some other people and a few Community Council Members on the WoW Forums to try to have this stuff addressed.
If anyone cares about the health of PvP overall and wants to lend a hand the post is titled “PvP Issues Organized Megathread Plea for Aid to Community Council and Blizzard”..
I'm massively excited for the PvP mindset to go towards Rated RBG's, it's about time Blizzard finally listened to Soloq, but man, arenas just aren't a huge appeal to most people. They want BG mechanics and the teamfights to be the major draw towards PvP. I think it'll make for some incredible content and builds.
Not only Sth. To do with the commitment into wow, it's hardest barrier to entry is that it's expensive imo
46:36 We really going to compare a 4 button character to an entire wow spec? Really?
yeah cuz wow has 13 chars with 20 buttons and league has 168chars with 4 buttons
also 4 buttons char is understatement cuz you build talents and items specificly for that char its like wow spec
@@Raikenden1 este wey hahahah
@@Raikenden1 WoW has 39 chars with 30+ buttons. Each of these chars has different talent choices it can make in its own right. If we are going to discuss this then at least get it right.
Asmons point here was spot on. His whole point here was that league doesn't try to balance its character for multiple game modes. League only balances and designs characters for Summoners Rift. They aren't focused on making the game balanced for ARAM, URF, or any rotational modes like the new arena modes. (They do have minor tweaks for the side game modes.) WOW has to balance the characters around BGs, arena, and PVE. For a class with a good arena kit, it might be garbage for CTF. These are two completely different modes. It might be closer to compare balancing a jungler to a support in League since they have different goals during the game.
That league can't even keep its game balanced either with less buttons and only 1 game mode to balance. So what is the point of the reduction of bloat? Why change the game to fit for people who have no prospect of even playing WoW to begin with? WoW will never reach these people. The people who play WoW like WoW.
I remember how Asmon went on rants on how Blizzard was changing the game to fit those who didn't even play WoW. Now here we are, Asmon suggesting that WoW should change to be more like League and Valorant. But also Plunderstorm was bad because...? Isn't that exactly what he asked for? No addons, less buttons, easy to understand from an observers pov. I think he doesn't know either tbh.
1:16:31 If it was an objective based game mode then the tiny minutia that happens between the players wouldn't be the only thing for spectators to latch on to.
Pika- “who is Bellular, who are you guys”
I was F’n rollin!!! Like couldn’t stop laughing so hard!!!! 😆🤣😂😂😂😂
Pika is the coolest, most REAL dude!!!
Plus the BEST pvp’er in my opinion.
It ain't dying it's on life support being drip fed just barely enough nutrients to stay alive.
thats somewhat a definition of dying. take the drip away and it dies..
There is a massive problem of Asmongold reading graphs, (re-)interpreting numbers while also claiming he loves looking at it.
The Xargold comment is on par. Ever since he started playing HC, he's been throwing shade at retail to stroke his viewers ego.
the worst change ever done was upgrading pvp honor gear with flystones. forcing people to do pve content while i just want to farm and roam battlegrounds.
Still watching... this video is fascinating, it's watching two people in denial about the state of their favourite content, one of them saying Balance is the key, the other saying balance is not the problem, it's the queue times!
Pika being massively triggered at people who don't play PvP saying they don't care about it and how they think it's dead.... then These guys saying it's not dead, it's the best content, you just can't queue for it or find people to do it, but trust us, it's not dead.
good vid and good takes baj. W
Pika is sort of right about all other games being just as confusing, but like for league i feel like they've done better at guiding players on what build and items to use. I used to have to go on a website every game to check a champs build and now the game has the three most popular ones in the client. I'm sure other games are doing better too, but i don't see much of it in wow.
Having watched since way back. Before the Swifty situation which hurt to see back then. It's an amazing feeling seeing you still be you and call things out the way you see them. The Asmonxarpika analysis was pure gold. Also with this many povs it's an easy way for you to create a hilarious podcast vibe without needing to schedule etc. I'd vids like these about pvp consistently. Keep the Bajh vibe alive. Not that many consistently positive RETAIL forces left. Love from Sweden
Bell and Matt are definitely not hate farmers. The clip they're viewing was in the middle of one of their very long friday, basically podcast, things where they just talk about big things that have popped up in WoW that week. The pvp info had come out so they were taking a look at it and trying to see what it meant. Neither have claimed to be pvpers and they were just looking and trying to figure out the numbers. They've been extremely positive about WoW for nearly all of DF.
then they shouldn’t have made the video trying to interpret what the graphs meant and making their own conclusions then
to me this just points out there is a huge waste of resources if only 5k people are hitting above 2200. Sounds like blizzard needs to really look at where they are wasting resources for awards above 2k.
I played PVP for years (since wotlk) and I've got to say that nowadays being a father/husband it's difficult to get into. None of my friends play anymore and trying to find a group in group finder is next to impossible sometimes. I was really hoping solo shuffle was going to be the answer, and it was for a bit, but the queue times are just nuts. Feels bad to only have an hour or so to play and the majority of that is either spent waiting in queue or playing half of a shuffle because someone left. I do also agree that Blizz has to attempt to make PVP easier to watch so we're not just staring at people with 30 add-ons and 5-10 alerts going off on screen. I wish they could make the base game look more like it does during AWC with cool graphics and simpler to follow UI.
I’ve been a 90% pvp player for like 15 years and in dragonflight finally started raiding (it is fun with the right guild) because I felt like pvp was hopeless.
Played dps from BC to S2 DF. Que times toward the end of s2 and all of s3 led me to hard switch to being a healer. Huge learning curve but I’m glad to help others and myself play more games. I don’t plan to switch until some work has been implemented for dps rollers
Might be a hot take but I think I actually prefer Tbc days when just because 1 dps died didnt mean the match was just instantly over. The hp was so low and everyones burst was so strong towards the end you could 2v3 quite often if played well and it felt really good imo
I would absolutely love to be able to play any class/spec I want without having to diligently maintain alts every week. For either pushing keys or pvp. As it stands it feels most rewards are more based off of how much time you drop into the game, more skill based rewards would keep a TR setup alive for more casual players.
I liked PvP in wotlk, doing WG, the specs changed a lot by Cata, especially Paladins, still was enjoying it then doing Tol'Barad, after those two expansions the game had changed waaay too much for me to keep playing it, it was barely recognizable, but ALWAYS PvP was a secondary thing to do in the game after all PvE dailies and weeklies had been done, it was never the main focus of the game, I definitely didn't login to sweat and try-hard in Arenas
Good video in my opinion, blizzard should eliminate some abilities from the wow classes, to reduce the number of icons in the interface, and also lower the micro ccs
The only thing you learn from this prominent graph: The top 5000 players play less games per week over time. That's it. Nothing more.
Its really funny how people make big sweeping opinions about this stuff and it doesn't help the community grow. I have met plenty of new wow pvpers playing the game. The game is popping right now and so is pvp. Queue times are not taking long because its "dead" they take a long time because there are objectively way more dps then healers in queue. So if you are dps its gonna take a minute. I log onto my healer and its insta pop most of the time. Atm i play in the 1800-2100 bracket of players and its pretty fun. Part of the fun of this game is the complexity. This is a rpg not a moba and if it was so easy to just hit 4 buttons and boom thats your class takes out so much fun out of these types of games. WoW pvp doesn't need to be for everybody, it needs to be for people that like this type of pvp. But alot of people act like there isn't new players or interested players in the content meanwhile we have shit loads of matches going a day. So many video games wish they had a pvp pop that was playing that many matches.
The other day, i was leveling in cata on a alt and ran into a group of 6-8 15 - 17 year old high school kids dueling each other trying to get better having fun. I am sure there are more players like that out there, and thats not even counting vet players like me who havent played in a minute returning to the game to pvp. The pvp is pretty damn fun but idk maybe i am just a shill.
When do u q i wated 2 hours last nite for 1 arms que. If u dont have 3's teammates its a gg game is ded u not getting any rewards.
@@MotoCoreSteve I play normally around 9-12 est, weekends ill play through the night mostly solo shuffle and 2's. In solo shuffle most i have to wait as a dps is 18-20 min but thats on the longer end ususally when you get skipped over. Also mmr plays a big part in it. Like my 1800 mmr is going to pop faster then my 2100 characters just because there are less players higher you go up.
I personally haven’t done a single solo shuffle yet. But all the feedback I’ve got from friends, glads, my community is it’s not as great as people made it out to be.
Give it a year or two we’re gunna have solo raids 😂
I do think objective based PvP is more popular across all competitive gaming. Planting/defusing bombs in tactical shooters over deathmatch etc. With WoW BG's would probably be more accessible to not only watch and grasp but play as well
It's hard to watch bajheera pvp because mostly I just see numbers flying around and I can't actually see what he's doing or who's he's hitting
Yeah i love bajheera but the numbers distract me noe that you mention it lol
I want blizz to fix and inject mmr for participation levels. Not being able to climb to the same or higher ratings 1 season to the next based on participation is garbage.
The only people with commentary worth considering here is Pika and Baj. Asmond and Bell are just click farmers.
When this expansion started all i did after leveling was PvP content, i don't think is dying, it's just about perspective.
bellular is a content creator and most of his videos are on topics they don't even understand
Bellular is a grifter.
I think you bring up some great points here, even just for life in general it is very easy to fall into a rut of negative confirmation bias. Like how people try to point out how its almost like uncool to try something or enjoy something, especially so if that makes people reflect on themselves and how they don't try and attempting to make you feel like you are foolish for doing something. Even in fitness and things of that nature. That is why its important to have people in your life that support your goals but also help you affirm that they are the things you do want.
Saying WoW PvP is fine is some serious copium. I love pvp but it needs some serious love and attention.
• The sandwich
• Your reactions
• The memes
Heck Baj I forgot how wholesome you are, how funny you are and how entertaining you are. Please keep it up! Love the reactions.
Side note. I’m subbed to Asmond and yourself and I love any and all videos with my two favourite wowtubers.
THe problem isn't the PvP types of matches/modes, it's the MMR system in it's entirety. The damn PvP system is also tied to PVE, which is STUPID AF. You shouldn't have to do ANYTHING pve related for maxing out PvP gear. period. There are many flaws.
i think the reason the numbers dip in the first few weeks of the season is because people are are realizing they are not going to make progress playing against multi glads since everybodys rating resets to 0. thats why we see a peak around 8 - 9 weeks because people are returning after waiting for the multi glads to get out of the way, because who wants to compete against multi glads in the 1600 bracket all day
"You literally can not play the game" - did he think why can you not? Does it have to deal with player numbers at all? Cmon man
The copium on the pvp players 😂
@@essaalhendi6300 no one wants to be farmed by sweats anymore I guess
@@Dryzual I don't know, people seem to have no problem being farmed by sweaty guys in other games.
The reason the numbers look so good is because you're not considering alts and players with multiple accounts. 50 pages of players right? how many of those are being played by the same person? The answer is a shit load. All you gotta do is play the game and you can see participation is awful.
Default WeakAuras as a base tool like macros wouldnt even be hard.
As somebody who has been playing WOW since EverQuest, got Glad Season 2 and Pika saying "Balance" isn't an issue. That is false, Blizzard does a piss poor job at balancing. They need to do it in small changes, see what is dominating or what classes are unplayable in the meta and make SMALL adjustments accordingly. They are doing obvious Flavor of the Month GOD tier classes, people buy a BOOST, cookie cut the meta and spam it. It's pretty obvious that is a massive issue. When the Ret Rework hell took over the meta so many people either left or went Ret. They need to work on the balancing and they can't just let shit get out of control. If what I'm saying is false there wouldn't be such thing as "FLAVOR OF THE MONTH"
The point of the video was the number of games is minuscule in comparison to PvE / running keys.
Once again i got the urge to play the game. This was the video i needed lol. Still the same issues i've had since i've started. Like pika said "The biggest problem this game has is that you literally can not play the game".
old school WoW Vanilla-MoP pvp is way more pleasing to watch. Just watching those old pvp montages are way better than current wow pvp
Too many people think Asmond is the WoW master and knows all, the guy hasn't played WoW seriously in almost 7 years hasn't PvP'd at all, he's a react channel with a terrible take on a game he no longer plays or loves.
New game mode for pvp… it’s called solo shuffle shuffle. It’s 3 teams of players but one team is gonna get a random extra person! Why? Who knows!
I'm a filthy casual.
I like wow pvp. It isn't dead for me. I just suck at the game and guess what? That's ok! But the bit about WoW being the best game that you can't play is so spot on. Even at my filthy bs rank (best I ever achieved was 1800 solo shuffle in season 1, I tend to hover around 1500-1600 tho) it takes way too long for me to get into a game man... And it feels real bad. If they could just get games to be less of a wait to get in, the bad games/losses wouldn't feel so bad. This is why random BGs feel fun: I don't have to wait long to get into them, usually.
Honestly if they fixed the queue times... it would just make it all fun for me, all around, and allow my casual ass to get beat up in ranked content and love it lol.
I'm super casual too. I haven't played much of df at all but now if I wanted to pvp I can only imagine what whispers I get for not knowing how the game works right now lol
Literally if a "wow killer " mmo comes out and it doesnt have a form of arena it just will never do it. Arena still the most unique pvp exp out of all games
I’m really liking this Bajheera react arc. Good to see you migrating back into my RUclips feed!
People who don't pvp in a game should not make suggestions on how to "fix" it.
When was the last time a new map or game type was added? We get 10-20 new bosses and dungeons and such per expansion but we still playing on war song gulch my dude!!!
new map is incoming for war within
I would love to see wow separating pvp and pve like FF14 does. In FF14 each class has an fixed collection of skills and things like gear or level does not play any part. Every warrior in pvp should have the same skills and stats so that only the player skill decides who wins and the developer could balance things without any fear of breaking the pve side.
never would've imagined there would come a day where streamers started to react to streamers reacting to streamers reacting to streamers, the inception levels are crazy and its probably only going to get worse...
Majority of players are below top 5000..... thats crazy.
Issues i have always had is finding people that I can play with and vibe with, that are the right class and spec on at the right times. 2nd when your designing class trees it's dang near impossible to make the pve and pvp players happy at the same time on where some nods are. Just make separate tress for each piece of content then tune them separate. It get really old hearing pve get mad at pvp for where stuff is and vice verse.
Yea that’s my main issue in pvp right now. I would gladly spend months on end grinding for glad and other rewards but it’s just hard to find players healers mostly. I wish which I know may never happen they would make glad accessible through the solo ques. I know that’s an unpopular take but I feel it would be the same if not harder you know.
More Bajheera reacts please. Need more people like you to react from a PvPer’s perspective
That sandwich is popping off it’s like all the versions of wow atm
They should make also solo shuffle 2v2 DPS ONLY
"Each class having its own OP thing is fun".
Well said Bahj, class identity over homogeneity every day of the week!
We've come to 2 conclusions, that sandwich is bussin' and Asmon is an absolute incel.
Incel? Self-awareness isn't your strength... You're watching a guy react to a guy react to a guy reacting to two guys about World of Warcraft PvP, and you have the audacity to conclude someone (who has dated attractive women) is an Incel because you disagree with their angle/point-of-view. Bravo, bravo, people like you are why RUclips Comment sections remain a cesspool of idiocy.
he always brings up weird crap lol, he has to know most wow players play for fun, no one pvps thinking they gonna be "esports" he has such terrible debating skills, brings up random stuff.
@@Dreamonologythe biggest problem is that he makes millions with his idiotic takes.
Asmon*
Asmons leading argument for wow pvp is not enough EGIRLS play it hahaha wtf this guy is so lonely 😭
if u didn't start early back in in BC or classic or whatever then its not worth starting now.
I really hope this bounces back to a wider audiance.
I guess Bajheera is saying that we are such simplistic creatures that we let a random youtuber decide whether or not we play the game based on whether or not they say something negative or positive about the game.
i would love no addons as someone that hit 2k without any addons i feel like there would be a increase in the high end bracket pool.
This video was spot on bro! Thank you for putting this out. Love the future of WoW arena!
Asmon pvp'ing: I'm spinning! I'm spinning!! I'm spinning so fast!!!
So we are just going to pretend as if Pvp isnt significantly less popular these days than in past expansions