I have to highly disagree with a few class placements. For one, while mounted is "in general" far superior to infantry, some infantry are unbelievably good. Keep in mind some units (especially on harder difficulties) just can't get into a mounted unit. Moreover, there are limited great battalions for mounted units (particularly flying) which means you lose out on making "everyone" mounted. Grappler is incredibly powerful. Excellent stats, excellent growths, early level 20 access with light requirements, 6 move with forest walking which is not in the slightest a problem, faster units can quad, and fierce iron fist hits for a guaranteed 3 times meaning slow units really benefit from this class. It's an easy top tier class. War Master is also excellent, but more of a side grade. Grappler focuses more on player phase and has easier requirements, while war master is a stricter, more enemy phase unit with excellent critical hit potential. Brawling is incredibly busted in this game...which is the reason mounted units can't use gauntlets. Both of these classes are ideal end game classes and the best of infantry units along with the sniper. Honestly, there's an argument for all three to be in god tier, but top tier is perfectly acceptable. In fact, I'd argue Sniper is much better than bow knight and should be swapped. For one, bow knight has far stricter requirements and has pitiful growths attached to it. Sniper meanwhile has hunter's volley, which like grappler's fierce iron fist, is a brave art. 2 hits guaranteed? Sign me up. Sniper takes mediocre units and makes them invaluable endgame worthy units. It's sole weakness is 5 move, although it's mitigated by bowrange +1. Dancer meanwhile should very easily be the best class in the game. It's an obvious god tier class that has been so throughout the whole series. Personally, I think you're overstating magic units. You rank mounted units very high which I agree with, but yet magic units which have a pitiful 4-5 move you rank very highly? Remember, not all units have 3+ range on spells to mitigate these class' poor movements and many of those 3+ range spells have poor accuracy. I think bishop, warlock and dark bishop are also all very outclassed. All females should go gremory, valkyrie or dark flier no questions asked. Males while far more limited should go for either dark knight or a physical class if they're lucky enough to have a magic combat art like frozen lance, etc. although some males just have to make do with these average at best classes if they want to take advantage of their spell list. Other classes I'd like to make a small mention for are: paladin and assassin. Paladin should probably be top tier and while not as good as wyvern lord, etc. it's still an early level 20 class with 8 move, canto and lancefaire. Lancefaire is especially important since most expected endgame classes don't have lancefaire for whatever reason. Many characters who have banes in flying can find a very effective home in paladin as well. Assassin on the other hand is the only real option for a swordfaire class. 6 move and forest walking is perfectly useable, it's a level 20 class with low requirements and swordfaire, and assassin's have both outrageous speed and avoid. Upper mid tier for me as I wouldn't consider this class a top tier since sword's suck in this game and assassin doesn't really bring enough to the table. It can be really good with sword avoid from dancer, but that's not really because of assassin. Otherwise, I think this is a decent list, but not perfect, especially when maddening is taken into consideration.
I heavily disagree with Bow knight being better then sniper. Hunters Volley is like the best combat art in the game. A guaranteed Double on the higher difficulty with Built in critical is a massive savior in Madewning mode to kill off The speedy and evasive Falcon knights and Wyvern Lords. It should be higher if at the very least in the same tier as Bow Knight. Mobility is great but it won't matter if the squishy bow knightgets one rounded
I do have to admit that looking at some of the "male exclusive" classes compared to the "female exclusive" ones is part of why I typically play with Female Byleth instead. Like, Hero and the brawling classes don't stack up to Falcon Knight and the mounted magic users and their skills. Though, seeing Assassin as low as it is feels odd. Granted, that might just be because my main 2 Assassins were usually F Byleth and Petra, and Assassin Petra just feels insane, lol.
war master is busted. has 50% heal ability and quick riposte. They carried me in 2 playthroughs. Sylvan on wyvern lord also is busted. 1 shotting bosses after warp.
If you don’t think dark flyer is the best class allow me to explain why I do. Imagine a flying lysinthea with her +range relic and skills. Her being squishy means absolutely nothing if you can’t even hit her. Her attack range is higher than some characters movements ranges and her accuracy and speed make it so 1 she won’t miss and 2 if you somehow don’t kill with that 40 attack she’s most likely attacking again. And then moving even further away I straight up let her solo alot of maps just to say she did. And she absorbs magic attacks to strengthen herself😂😂😂 I love that unit and characters. Similar with Constance but her magic isn’t quite as high
Disagree on Holy Knight Class 1. White Tomefaire is almost a nonexistent skill as most characters will only have Nosferatu, and others who have more than 1 offensive Faith Spell outright have a MUCH BETTER class to choose from. Ex:Lysithea has 3 offensive Faith, but she has Gremory class as an option, why choose Holy Knight Lol 2. Only noob will send their dedicated Faith user from Bishop to Holy Knight, as they will lose their extra cast on ALL of their Faith spells. 3. Trading 5 physic for 3 extra move is kinda dumb imo, like, at that point your dedicated Faith user will already have a very long range Physic, and why would you send your healer to front line just to heal and die after that?
3H classes seem unbalanced compared to previous titles! Especially flying classes have so many benefits! They have high movement, ignore terrain, canto, good speed growth and +10 avoid in Falcon and Wyvern! Compared to horse classes are nerfed with minus speed growth which is lame! Even infranry advanced classes get nerfed with only 4-5 movements (except grappler, assassin), they used to have 5-6 movements in some previous titles which is decent for them. The flying classes used to be more balanced due to their cap stats, but in 3H cap stats are based on characters, not classes anymore! The bow classes got a good buff due to they access to close counter and got bowrange +1, +2 which is very good! Swordmaster is usually my favorite class but now they got nerfed so so much, Astra is completely a waste! War Master and Grappler should be ranked higher, they can go to top tier or god tier due to their 6 movement and Fistfaire! Fists are one of the best weapons for high strength characters, always hit 2-4 times! War Master's Crit +20 is no joke, pair with Fist crit +10 and hit 2-4 times, in my playthrough, they always got crit everytime they attack! Grappler got an art that hit 3 times which is great too. Felix and Balthus are all insane War Master or Grappler!
Genealogy and Path of Radiance have terrible balancing too, especially Genealogy. All 3 really just hammer on the movement differences between infantry vs mounted units. Oddly enough, games like Shadow Dragon and Blazing Sword, who have less flexibility with classes, are the most balanced. Especially since units like Swordmasters and Heroes have 8 movement in Shadow Dragon, making them still high movement units while Paladins cap out at 10. And canto doesn't exist in either (It does in the GBA titles, but only after doing any other action besides an attack).
I have to highly disagree with a few class placements. For one, while mounted is "in general" far superior to infantry, some infantry are unbelievably good. Keep in mind some units (especially on harder difficulties) just can't get into a mounted unit. Moreover, there are limited great battalions for mounted units (particularly flying) which means you lose out on making "everyone" mounted.
Grappler is incredibly powerful. Excellent stats, excellent growths, early level 20 access with light requirements, 6 move with forest walking which is not in the slightest a problem, faster units can quad, and fierce iron fist hits for a guaranteed 3 times meaning slow units really benefit from this class. It's an easy top tier class. War Master is also excellent, but more of a side grade. Grappler focuses more on player phase and has easier requirements, while war master is a stricter, more enemy phase unit with excellent critical hit potential. Brawling is incredibly busted in this game...which is the reason mounted units can't use gauntlets. Both of these classes are ideal end game classes and the best of infantry units along with the sniper. Honestly, there's an argument for all three to be in god tier, but top tier is perfectly acceptable. In fact, I'd argue Sniper is much better than bow knight and should be swapped. For one, bow knight has far stricter requirements and has pitiful growths attached to it. Sniper meanwhile has hunter's volley, which like grappler's fierce iron fist, is a brave art. 2 hits guaranteed? Sign me up. Sniper takes mediocre units and makes them invaluable endgame worthy units. It's sole weakness is 5 move, although it's mitigated by bowrange +1. Dancer meanwhile should very easily be the best class in the game. It's an obvious god tier class that has been so throughout the whole series.
Personally, I think you're overstating magic units. You rank mounted units very high which I agree with, but yet magic units which have a pitiful 4-5 move you rank very highly? Remember, not all units have 3+ range on spells to mitigate these class' poor movements and many of those 3+ range spells have poor accuracy. I think bishop, warlock and dark bishop are also all very outclassed. All females should go gremory, valkyrie or dark flier no questions asked. Males while far more limited should go for either dark knight or a physical class if they're lucky enough to have a magic combat art like frozen lance, etc. although some males just have to make do with these average at best classes if they want to take advantage of their spell list.
Other classes I'd like to make a small mention for are: paladin and assassin. Paladin should probably be top tier and while not as good as wyvern lord, etc. it's still an early level 20 class with 8 move, canto and lancefaire. Lancefaire is especially important since most expected endgame classes don't have lancefaire for whatever reason. Many characters who have banes in flying can find a very effective home in paladin as well. Assassin on the other hand is the only real option for a swordfaire class. 6 move and forest walking is perfectly useable, it's a level 20 class with low requirements and swordfaire, and assassin's have both outrageous speed and avoid. Upper mid tier for me as I wouldn't consider this class a top tier since sword's suck in this game and assassin doesn't really bring enough to the table. It can be really good with sword avoid from dancer, but that's not really because of assassin.
Otherwise, I think this is a decent list, but not perfect, especially when maddening is taken into consideration.
Great feedback. Thanks for the support!
I heavily disagree with Bow knight being better then sniper. Hunters Volley is like the best combat art in the game. A guaranteed Double on the higher difficulty with Built in critical is a massive savior in Madewning mode to kill off The speedy and evasive Falcon knights and Wyvern Lords. It should be higher if at the very least in the same tier as Bow Knight. Mobility is great but it won't matter if the squishy bow knightgets one rounded
I think mortal savant has only two uses, Marianne after dance for increased sword abilities with her relic, and only a maybe for female Byleth.
If you ask me, that was a good tier list. Can't wait to see the "Who is best" episode for this game.
I do have to admit that looking at some of the "male exclusive" classes compared to the "female exclusive" ones is part of why I typically play with Female Byleth instead. Like, Hero and the brawling classes don't stack up to Falcon Knight and the mounted magic users and their skills. Though, seeing Assassin as low as it is feels odd. Granted, that might just be because my main 2 Assassins were usually F Byleth and Petra, and Assassin Petra just feels insane, lol.
Yeah, assassin Petra is nuts but Falcon knight Petra is almost a requirement in harder difficulties.
Flying Bows. Attack to clear ranged/flying units and fly out of range from melee. Next round snipe melee within range. Fly away if needed. Game over.
war master is busted. has 50% heal ability and quick riposte. They carried me in 2 playthroughs. Sylvan on wyvern lord also is busted. 1 shotting bosses after warp.
If you don’t think dark flyer is the best class allow me to explain why I do. Imagine a flying lysinthea with her +range relic and skills. Her being squishy means absolutely nothing if you can’t even hit her. Her attack range is higher than some characters movements ranges and her accuracy and speed make it so 1 she won’t miss and 2 if you somehow don’t kill with that 40 attack she’s most likely attacking again. And then moving even further away I straight up let her solo alot of maps just to say she did. And she absorbs magic attacks to strengthen herself😂😂😂 I love that unit and characters. Similar with Constance but her magic isn’t quite as high
I would love to see tier list for suikoden 3 and radiata stories
I’m almost positive we’ll get to it in 2023! Suikoden 1 will come before Suikoden 3.
Could we get a who is best for the 3 Xenosaga games?
Yes.
Disagree on Holy Knight Class
1. White Tomefaire is almost a nonexistent skill as most characters will only have Nosferatu, and others who have more than 1 offensive Faith Spell outright have a MUCH BETTER class to choose from. Ex:Lysithea has 3 offensive Faith, but she has Gremory class as an option, why choose Holy Knight Lol
2. Only noob will send their dedicated Faith user from Bishop to Holy Knight, as they will lose their extra cast on ALL of their Faith spells.
3. Trading 5 physic for 3 extra move is kinda dumb imo, like, at that point your dedicated Faith user will already have a very long range Physic, and why would you send your healer to front line just to heal and die after that?
I kind of feel that this list is too generalized, forgetting about some abilities/combinations
I am finally a minority!!! (People subbed) woot!! Great vid!
now you can say the n word
3H classes seem unbalanced compared to previous titles! Especially flying classes have so many benefits! They have high movement, ignore terrain, canto, good speed growth and +10 avoid in Falcon and Wyvern! Compared to horse classes are nerfed with minus speed growth which is lame! Even infranry advanced classes get nerfed with only 4-5 movements (except grappler, assassin), they used to have 5-6 movements in some previous titles which is decent for them.
The flying classes used to be more balanced due to their cap stats, but in 3H cap stats are based on characters, not classes anymore!
The bow classes got a good buff due to they access to close counter and got bowrange +1, +2 which is very good!
Swordmaster is usually my favorite class but now they got nerfed so so much, Astra is completely a waste!
War Master and Grappler should be ranked higher, they can go to top tier or god tier due to their 6 movement and Fistfaire! Fists are one of the best weapons for high strength characters, always hit 2-4 times! War Master's Crit +20 is no joke, pair with Fist crit +10 and hit 2-4 times, in my playthrough, they always got crit everytime they attack! Grappler got an art that hit 3 times which is great too.
Felix and Balthus are all insane War Master or Grappler!
Genealogy and Path of Radiance have terrible balancing too, especially Genealogy.
All 3 really just hammer on the movement differences between infantry vs mounted units.
Oddly enough, games like Shadow Dragon and Blazing Sword, who have less flexibility with classes, are the most balanced. Especially since units like Swordmasters and Heroes have 8 movement in Shadow Dragon, making them still high movement units while Paladins cap out at 10. And canto doesn't exist in either (It does in the GBA titles, but only after doing any other action besides an attack).
Who wants balance in a single player game? lmfao