It's great to see prices droping for these batteries. That is a totally usable range and electricity is way cheaper than gas so if you use it a lot it will pay for itself in time. It's also nice how quiet it is.
Love those lithium iron phosphate batteries. I just put a 300 amp hour 12 volt with a Minn Kota 12 volt terrova and I can take the boat out 8 to 10 times ( full day fishing) in heavy current and only use about half of the batterie power it is a game changer and never have range anxiety like I did with the 12 volt lead acid battery which couldn't even make it through one day without dying on me. It's the same weight as the lead acid battery. I have all the features of anchor lock autopilot. Top speed is about 3 mph. It would be nice if trolling motors would go a little faster than that but still gets the job done. It's on a 14 ft Carolina Skiff.
Nice video! Now the numbers are starting to look realistic. This is pretty great. As a salmon troller my sessions are 4-6hrs long and a 5hp kicker would be pushing my 16’ boat along at 2-4mph. I think ePropulsion could replace my 5hp gas and make it quieter and more relaxing out there on the chuck..
Wayne, the reason why the remaining battery time readout didn't change between when you left and when you returned is probably because the motor is intended to use the stock (three hour) battery. Because you're using a beefier battery, the remaining voltage is still high, and the motor voltage monitor senses a "full charge."
I’m 14 and have been saving for a boat for a while and I found a 12ft alumacraft last week and I might get it soon I’m so excited to get on the water and fish out of it 😁 btw great video as always
@@Varue I did it’s a g3 not a alumacraft it came with a evinrude sporttwin I got running and it needs a prop though but it should be ready for use in the next few days I have gone pond fishing already in it using a trolling motor it’s overall a great boat
Im reading some comments of folks wanting an all in one motor...trolling, spot lock, and primary power source. A bow mounted motor will work half as hard on spot lock because it wont be pushing the whole boat into wind or current, it finds the sweet spot then "tows" the boat easily. My personal experience here: Expecting a transom mount motor to spot lock is an unreasonably difficult task based on the way the boat presents its mass to current and wind, resulting in twice or three times the corrections and power requirement.
Yeah , my thoughts exactly , seems he would invest in better gear , and spruce that thing up . I was more interested in the boat than the motor 🚤.......zoom zoom
Hello Wayne, EV technology is great! I've enjoyed having a high power 75hp stealth electric outboard on my 17' bow rider runabout. Excellent choice for the type of lake boating we enjoy. We can go over 20 miles on one charge. The top speed is 27 MPH and the last time out, we pulled the raft just for fun. Go Electric!
The motor itself is very quiet. Any sound is from the Yamaha lower unit gears, wind and water splash. It's quite easy to carry on a conversation while under way. See video: marks gas to electric boat conversion. It shows how it performed with 2 batteries and 96v. I have since added a 3rd battery to operate at 144v.
Cool but $1799 for the Epoch is out of most peoples price point when you can buy 4x 12v 100ah batteries for around $650 on sale these days. Also if one goes bad you only have to replace one battery.
Nice segment Wayne. Great review of your motor's battery and it's extended range it provides. wind on the bay and its tributaries can come up in a heartbeat.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy i'm not sure i would want to be in a jon boat if it got serious....lol. i used to have a 2452 Baylier. it was a great boat for the bay. i got rid of it after it sat 10 years and the motor seized up. slips got too expensive and it was right at the limit for one person to handle. I know the boat will be put to good use and brought back to life. the guy i gave it to is a mechanic so he'll ge able to tear down and rebuild the Mercruiser Alpha 1.
@anthonyscalise7398 Some people use them for skiing and pulling tubes, but for just cruising around and relaxing, solar/electric would be ideal. Could do both in reality.
Actually you say people go faster for long trips, but in England your speed already exceeds the speed limit set in their canal system. They have thousands of narrow boats and many take long very slow trips. I know apple and oranges, but their are people who are about the trip not the speed. Also your Whaler could easily have a couple 400 watt bifacial solar panels to help out as well and give you cover from sun and weather. Great video btw! 👍
Hi Wayne ,, Glad ive found this channel,,. as i find myself increasingly closer to the inevitable " 1st dip into boat ownership". Alot of good content which has got me thinking more about what i require from a small vessel and power source. I work as a Heating Engineer primarily in renewables , So your Vlogs on Electric/ Solar in particular are of interest. any other recommendations woupd be much appreciated,, keep up the Great content.. Atb Ry from Cornwall 👍
I have two 170 sunpower flexible on my bimini though I bought them before the tariff. Lfp batteries. my boat is almost cheap as sunlight to operate at low speeds but it's a hybrid for now. There are now big enough electric outboards that I could switch
I saw that you wrote about needing trailer guides, the problems you had when ramping the boat up would have been easy to fix by just parking closer to the dock/jetty and having the boat further out so that you had more space to turn the boat, hope this helps!
Helpful tip: when puting your boat onto your trailer, leave 1/4 of your carpeted skid pads out of the water, when you back your trailer into the water, this will help keep your boat centered on the trailer when your getting your boat out of the water, when you back your trailer too far into the water, your boat won't want to stay properly aligned with the trailer, so it will be off to one side and leaning when you pull forward, so leave one forth of your skids out of the water, and you will find the boat centers perfectly every time. 😎👍
I paid $469 between my $55 thrust motor in my 100 amp battery lithium phosphate and it works perfectly fine and I can run my boat for almost 10 hours and it goes 4 mph works fine!
Love the set up (if it was me I'd look at adding a front seat and close to traditional steering for that style boat) even with the water logged boat a Boston whaler is amazing and likely will never sink. Still love yur set up cant wait to see what ya do, consider a small solar panel near the front of the boat?
My pet peeves in regards to ePropulsions and the likes is that they do not have any of the functionality of a bow/transom mounted trolling motor. It would be awesome to have a 3hp electric motor to have those functions for trolling for bigger, meaner, faster fishes like muskies, pikes and the like. I have a 19 footer and unless I go 36-48v, I wouldn't be able to do so, so ePropulsion would be a great alternative, but the lack of functions is killing the appeal. Could you imagine a 3hp electric outboard capable of following routes, anchor in heavy winds/wakes, troll at any given speed, etc? That'd be a dream.
RUclips won’t let me post links, but search for captian Paul Kim kraken first impression. He has a video that shows the run speed on his big catamaran.
Great video and really informative. I mainly fish the Swan River in Western Australia and there is a 5 knot limit in most of the areas I fish, so this topic really interests me. My boat 'The Pocket Rocket' is ever evolving, and my aim is to eventually get rid of the 50hp petrol outboard and replace with an electric motor, but I'll keep the Motorguide on the bow. I'm considering removing the fuel tank and putting a large Lith battery in its place. It's some time off becoming an affordable option, but great to see the stuff you are doing. Thanks for sharing.
I just bought two of the Li-Time 24v, 100AH batteries, for $506/ea. I am wiring them in series (for which they are rated) to get 48 volts. This is for a home storage solution, but it could absolutely do the exact same thing as the Epoch battery in this video...at $700 less.
Hey Wayne long time subscriber here, thank you for the video! It's always really interesting to explore new technologies for boats this video was an interesting watch to see how it performs. Can I ask what got you into boats? All the best J from the UK.
I got into boats because a few years ago we moved to a community that was close to the water. Almost everyone in the neighborhood has a boat and the boat ramp is really close to my house so I figured it was a good time to learn about boats!
Electric in situations like this is great. Allows for money to go into R&D for batteries and motors without people needing to buy whole cars. Plus for most people boats and especially small boats are not an essential for everyday life, so the downsides of charging are felt way less
ego battery rack mount $1100 same size. Depends what you need. Nice thing is if you can use the rack mount it's easy to transfer to use with home solar when not boating or use in other vehicle.
Hi Wayne. That's a nice battery for sure and you should be able to do 9hrs+ at 500 watts, so you'll likely have no range anxiety if you stay down at that power output. I am running a 24v 70lb trolling motor that runs at 42 amps at 24v = 1008 watts, so about the same as yours. I am using an inflatable Intex Mariner 4 with an 8kw home made battery I built last winter, so of course I have no range anxiety either. I can go 4mph (at 540 watts) for over 15hrs, so 60 mile range! When I increase to full throttle (1kw) I only get 4.5mph, so not worth it for me. I have gone out and ran the thing at 540watts for 7 hrs, so, about 21 miles a few times this year. That battery you bought is very nice, and a good price, but doesn't work for me. My battery is 100lbs as well, but I broke it down into 4 blocks of 25lbs each. And since I have to set up and tear down my boat every time I go out, and I am 60 yrs old and still want to do this for many more years, I needed something manageable. I'm guessing they sell a smaller battery that you can then put in series or parallel (be extra careful putting lithium in parallel, just fyi!), so I guess it's probably still doable. My batteries are 8s2p ( actually 120 cells in parallel and 8 in series). Each 25lb block is 4s60p and I have two sets in series to get 2 packs of 8s that I then hook up (very carefully) in parallel. So my voltage range is 24v at empty and 33.6v at full. It is over volted and that is dangerous as well, but I stay at about 30a (18ishv) out of my cheap 200a Chinese PWM. So it's all good. I guess I should make a vid and post it on my new system, but I'm too busy having fun cruisin'
You may get better speeds with the new battery as it's rated at a higher raw voltage and larger capacity so it should have less sag given the same load as the smaller, lower quiescent voltage unit. There is open source electric motor controller firmware that ends up being applicable to any device (initially developed for drones, IIRC) that uses a battery; when you change your battery, if your motor core can handle it, you can also tweak your performance to match the fuel.
I don’t know how I would feel about plunking down a 100 pound battery on the floor of my 12’ Jon boat. Just that 100 pounds would slow the boat down. I just think if you’re a fresh water fisherman, you can’t take that long to get to the next spot. Half of your time on the water would be consumed just in travel time.
15 hp yamaha over that all day long. Way underpowered. This video probably is going to help a lot of people make a decision on that outboard.. The battery is great.!!!!!!!!
Here is a free experiment you can try. Raise the motor on the transom about an inch. You may pick up a little bit of speed. You can raise it by just laying a strip of something…like wood….on the top of the transom when putting the motor on. The higher the motor the less drag you create and rpm’s at a given setting will be higher. However, you can be too high and suck air……but it’s easily readjusted if that’s the case.
You could add a large solar top, a solar charge controller, then you won't need that much battery. It looks like your boat can add 600 watt solar top. So you can add roughly 400 watt hour every hour.
Charging at full on your charger will not even get that battery warm much less hot. It will not hurt it a bit...That is a NICE battery...I use four 50 Ah lithium batteries in my little 12' Pond Prowler one man fishing boat with the same EPropulsion Spirit Plus.... I get roughly 2.5 hr of run time at full speed which is right at 5 mph. By the way, the longer the boat, the faster it will tend to go in displacement mode with similar hull designs...My guess is you were getting about 5.25mph at full speed. I would also note that the Sprit pulls right at 20 amp at full speed so you run time is 100ah/20a = 4 hours or about 20 mies of range.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy I am going to add 500W Bifacial solar panels to my Electric pontoon, but it is mainly to charge it over time. Not really useful for run time. Theses will basically stick out over the outboard on the rear where they will get the most sun as my dock faces due west... I think I will do a video on my three electric boats....I really like your channel and the projects you are working on. The Jimmy skiff II is a GREAT build...
I know many are going Green. But where allowed will still use my 2 Stroke Johnson 15Hp that will plane my old 12 ft Starcraft with 4 people and gear. Most where I fish is big water. 30-45 minutes runs usual. I you just put-put arround a trolling motor enough👍
Whatever works for you. Nothing wrong with electric or gas. It's all about what we want and need for our desired purpose. I support the right to have what we want for what we want. I run electric hybrid on my micro trawler. My buddies run outboards. My dinghy has a electric only outboard. It's all our choice.
@@74nova36 They fit, plenty freeboard Often don't fish alone, place 2 on shore to wade and 2 casting on the boat plus loaded cooler, and gear. 15 Hp will plane easily
It's early days for electric motors and boats. What you are looking at is an early upgrade. Obviously, electric motors can make loads of power. Ever hear of the Tesla Model S Plaid, Lucid Saphire, or Rimac Nevera. Of course they need, and have batteries that are 100-120kwh, compared to this battery which is 4.8kwh, so upsizing is one option. The other trick I've seen which is fancy, but very effective, is combining it with hydrofoils. That triples the range at speed. So that really expands what you can do. Nobody makes battery boats that cross the atlantic. I think electric motors are going to take over from gas in small lakes with horsepower limits pretty quick, but long distance will take time or money.
Electric is coming, growing, and not going away. There is definitely a future for this but not for everyone yet. I don't like the charge time. Fill a gas tank(even with mixing) 10 minutes. Charge a battery, hours. Same with cars. Solar panels help with that but don't fix it. When they can use easily replaceable power cell for cars or boats, then we will have a true game changer
This option isn't more cost effective, but it does have other benefits over gasoline engines (and I am not talking about pollution) that some boaters really appreciate.
I now run two 12v lead/acid batteries in series for my trolling motor. I'd love to lose the weight with an Li battery, but just can't get past the $1000 cost.
Prices will come down and tech will go up. This is a great set up for many small lakes that don't allow gas or for people who don't want to deal with gas. Also, a brand new gas motor isn't exactly cheap. Not sure what the price comparison is, but its worth a look based on your needs!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy also for safety petrol motors have to be serviced every year which of you don't do it yourself is expensive. I honestly think that for smaller lakes and some inshore sea activities, things will go electric.
@marviwilson1853 I agree, the beauty of being in nature is enhanced by quiet motors. Also you can sneak up on spooky trout and there is v little risk of pollution (petrol spills and oil leaks etc). Think they are great.
Great video but one should NEVER run any outboard out of the water without either removing the propeller or sticking a large bucket or garbage can under it to protect your legs, plastic propeller or not. Don’t worry about the safety of the battery, worry about yourself and your loved ones.
Hp equivelece for a boat motor is meaningless, especially for such a small motor. Usually, they are comparing torque, but that only dictates the acceleration rate, not top speed. If it takes 10 seconds more or less to get up to top speed in a boat like this, nobody cares. This is a 1⅓ Hp motor. It is deceptive to call it anything else. Now, for cars, given the amount of time you spend accelerating, it makes a difference. Car gas engines are often over sized to get the acceleration so a much smaller electric can have similar performance. I still dont like the comparison, but at least it makes sense. So everyone should start calling these companies out for deceptive marketing practices.
I have a propulsion 1.0 original which runs at 40 V. But they usually means there’s a range. Is there a step down that I could use with one of the 48 V lithium batteries so that I could use that with my propulsion original?
Question: If high power throttle on 3hp electric drive gives half the range, what happens if, rather than 'cutting power' to get range, you pay more for a higher horsepower motor, say 6hp (if available) and run that at half speed? Is there an economy of scale?
Not really. For boats that are running in displacement mode (not planing or foiling), to double the speed requires eight times the power. Doubling the speed requires double the power, doubled again, then doubled once more. In other words, if it takes 500W to go 5 mph, it would take 4,000W to go 10 mph. Likewise, doubling the motor's 500W to 1,000W gets you a speed increase of only just 1.2 mph. Power is doubled (x2) so the speed increase is the cube root of that, (cube root of 2 is 1.26); 5mph * 1.26 = ~6.3 mph for double the power input. Power required goes up as the cube of speed. Slowing down just a little bit saves a tremendous amount of energy.
Given motor efficiencies are the same for each case, a 3hp motor running at full whack will give the same range as a 6hp motor running at half power for a given KWHr battery capacity when running at the same boat speed.
Great, real world video, lot of good information well presented. One question....1 hp=750 watts. So running full out at maximum 3 hp rating would require at least 2250 watts draw yet your full out was only 1000 watts draw. Not enough battery amps to power 3 hp worth? Second question...does it really weigh 96 lbs? My 48 volt 50 amp litthium battery made out of a portion of a chevy volt battery pack only weighs 35 lbs. I thought litthium would be lighter. Great video.
Yeah I don't understand how all of the electric outboard manufacturers rate the "equivalent power" because it doesn't match up with horsepower/watts. This motor draws 1,000 watts at full power but is considered a 3 hp "equivalent". Same goes for Torqeedo and Newport etc. I have compared this with older 2 stroke gasoline motors of similar horsepower and the gasoline engines have slightly more top speed (but only slightly). With regards to the battery pack - without the packaging it comes in at 92 lbs. Maybe the heating/cooling and BMS (and perhaps the water-rated case itself) probably help contribute to the weight. A friend just purchased a different brand 48 volt 50 Ah and it weighed half of this battery which makes some sense.
Thank you both for the intelligent responses. I think both of you are correct in your respective answers. I have heard the 3 to 1 rough equivilancy before but I didn't know manufacturers used it in their advertising. And the different chemistries would account for weight discrepancies. I'm groping around in the dark trying to build an amphibious launch to be used in improving human created wetlands for a turtle conservation organization called a turtle for every log. I'm using electric motors to operate two mudmotors for water propulsion and 4 more electric motors to operate 4 pairs of retractable wheels attached to 4 walking beams for suspension. To say I have few examples to draw from is an understatement so whenevers. I run across applicable information i am very grateful. I also have enjoyed your videos down to earth presentations for quite awhile.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy I suspect its based on 'equivalency in useful energy' as opposed to rated power capacity. The disclosure is probably an asterisk on the box in font 5 or 6.
i get the idea if it was a backup or kicker motor on a big boat, maybe even a tender, but i dont see the appeal for boats like that, so much money for a whole lot of "meh"
How many minutes did you run at max power to get to the 77%? I have the same motor, and you've inspired me to do this battery upgrade. Thanks for sharing!
batteries in boats for propulsion are generally stupid..weight is always there,and don't get them wet as fire result when do. good luck trying to put out one of those fires in a boat.
BEEN TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE THAT!!!!!! BUT THEY ARE SO HUNG UP ON anti EV''S THAT THEY don't HEAR OR SEE ANYTHING ELSE !!! fyi in the next two to five years the amount of power batteries can hold will go up 100 to 300 %
Should run 4.8 hours with no energy loss. There is energy loss, so just under that. But, that’s still awesome! 100Ah x 48v = 4800Wh Your motor was using roughly 1000 watts, so 4800Wh would give you 4.8 hours. Of course, the watts were not exact, and you have some loss to heat, etc. but it’s a close estimation. 👍
This is a 48v battery. Obviously DC. If your Torqeedo motor is also 48v then it will work. The battery is capable of outputting up to 120Amp continuous current which equates to just over 5.7 Kw of continuous power. Battery has over current protection in case your Torqeedo motor power is above this figure.
Even back in the 70s a good deep cycle battery would last all day, and you’re trying to sell us on a package that cost more than a 15 horse four stroke of any model lol😂😂😂😂 btw 4 years from now that battery will be at its half life at best. Enjoy sailor keep me laughing I love your videos.
Wayne, if you had to spend your own money to purchase this setup would you? Right now the price of this setup is beyond what the average person can afford especially when you can get a decent gas outboard new or used at a lower price. I really like this concept and hopefully the price will drop in a few years......
@@Underpantsniper Because they call it 3hp "equivalent". Equivalent is the important word here and I believe it equates to the amount of static thrust the motor produces (being roughly equivalent to the static thrust of a 3hp gas outboard). I'm not arguing the validity (or otherwise) of this metric, just pointing out the apparent discrepancy. 😉
@@Underpantsniper I own one and the motor is way more powerful than my 2.5hp Yamaha. So I would say it doesn’t matter what numbers are advertised it is definitely 3hp or more equivalent. It is my favorite most used motor. I have several Yamahas but love this small EPropulsion Spirit 1.0 plus.
3HP is 2,238 watts. 746 Watts = 1 HP. I don't know what the manufacture means by equivalent. Power Output = Power Output. Horsepower is calculated from a KW output.
Yeah I don't quite understand the electric outboard math that all the brands (Torqeedo, Newport, ePropulsion etc.) use either. But I do know that when I have run this against my 2.5 hp 2 stroke gas engine - the top speed and power are very similar. These electrics seem to push a little better at lower speeds and the old 2 strokes have a bit more top speed.
Would it not be that a battery gets 95% efficiency, whilst petrol ICE motor gets 38% efficiency from fuel to mechanical conversion? Just fuel is more concentrated energy. 20x more I think per weight.
There are lithium ion batteries and the LiFePo4 batteries are lithium iron phosphate (Fe is iron in the periodic table). Even though the box says “ion” I was told that these are LiFePo4
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
It's great to see prices droping for these batteries. That is a totally usable range and electricity is way cheaper than gas so if you use it a lot it will pay for itself in time. It's also nice how quiet it is.
I really like how guilt and smooth these electrics are!
Love those lithium iron phosphate batteries. I just put a 300 amp hour 12 volt with a Minn Kota 12 volt terrova and I can take the boat out 8 to 10 times ( full day fishing) in heavy current and only use about half of the batterie power it is a game changer and never have range anxiety like I did with the 12 volt lead acid battery which couldn't even make it through one day without dying on me. It's the same weight as the lead acid battery. I have all the features of anchor lock autopilot. Top speed is about 3 mph. It would be nice if trolling motors would go a little faster than that but still gets the job done. It's on a 14 ft Carolina Skiff.
Nice video! Now the numbers are starting to look realistic. This is pretty great. As a salmon troller my sessions are 4-6hrs long and a 5hp kicker would be pushing my 16’ boat along at 2-4mph. I think ePropulsion could replace my 5hp gas and make it quieter and more relaxing out there on the chuck..
Wayne, the reason why the remaining battery time readout didn't change between when you left and when you returned is probably because the motor is intended to use the stock (three hour) battery. Because you're using a beefier battery, the remaining voltage is still high, and the motor voltage monitor senses a "full charge."
Yeah it doesn’t understand - and it doesn’t have enough digits!
I like the little solar electric pontoon boats.
Great production with a lot of information Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy the battery you bought is not lithium ion, it’s a lifepo4 battery they are known to be better and last longer in the test of time
I’m 14 and have been saving for a boat for a while and I found a 12ft alumacraft last week and I might get it soon I’m so excited to get on the water and fish out of it 😁 btw great video as always
Best of luck!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy wow you responded btw todays the day I’m so excited 😁
@@Graysons-creations did you get the boat
@@Varue I did it’s a g3 not a alumacraft it came with a evinrude sporttwin I got running and it needs a prop though but it should be ready for use in the next few days I have gone pond fishing already in it using a trolling motor it’s overall a great boat
@@Graysons-creations I’m might have three of them.. if it’s like the weedless 3 hp yachttwin
Torqueedo is one of several excellent outboard makers, FYI. Spend money where it matters, propulsion!!
Im reading some comments of folks wanting an all in one motor...trolling, spot lock, and primary power source.
A bow mounted motor will work half as hard on spot lock because it wont be pushing the whole boat into wind or current, it finds the sweet spot then "tows" the boat easily.
My personal experience here:
Expecting a transom mount motor to spot lock is an unreasonably difficult task based on the way the boat presents its mass to current and wind, resulting in twice or three times the corrections and power requirement.
You can use the GPS function on your phone to read a really accurate MPH.
@@thedevilinthecircuit1414 Geo Tracker for example.
Boat has ton of potential.
Yeah , my thoughts exactly , seems he would invest in better gear , and spruce that thing up .
I was more interested in the boat than the motor
🚤.......zoom zoom
Love the video and that whaler, it looks like a nice boat to run around in. How do you explain that battery purchase to your wife, LOL
I just finished renovating the kitchen so she's good!
Hello Wayne, EV technology is great! I've enjoyed having a high power 75hp stealth electric outboard on my 17' bow rider runabout. Excellent choice for the type of lake boating we enjoy. We can go over 20 miles on one charge. The top speed is 27 MPH and the last time out, we pulled the raft just for fun. Go Electric!
That sounds very interesting! With the motor up top is it loud?
The motor itself is very quiet. Any sound is from the Yamaha lower unit gears, wind and water splash. It's quite easy to carry on a conversation while under way. See video: marks gas to electric boat conversion. It shows how it performed with 2 batteries and 96v. I have since added a 3rd battery to operate at 144v.
Cool but $1799 for the Epoch is out of most peoples price point when you can buy 4x 12v 100ah batteries for around $650 on sale these days. Also if one goes bad you only have to replace one battery.
I did just that on my sailboat for that very reason and I'm pleased with the results.
Nice segment Wayne. Great review of your motor's battery and it's extended range it provides. wind on the bay and its tributaries can come up in a heartbeat.
Thanks! - Yeah this little motor did well, but I wouldn't wanna be out with it when the weather gets more serious!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy i'm not sure i would want to be in a jon boat if it got serious....lol. i used to have a 2452 Baylier. it was a great boat for the bay. i got rid of it after it sat 10 years and the motor seized up. slips got too expensive and it was right at the limit for one person to handle. I know the boat will be put to good use and brought back to life. the guy i gave it to is a mechanic so he'll ge able to tear down and rebuild the Mercruiser Alpha 1.
A large solar array (3000 watts) on a pontoon boat would be ideal. Thanks for sharing.
When I'm in Florida I wonder why all pontoons don't have panels.
@anthonyscalise7398 Some people use them for skiing and pulling tubes, but for just cruising around and relaxing, solar/electric would be ideal. Could do both in reality.
Get yourself a power winch 👍🏻
Actually you say people go faster for long trips, but in England your speed already exceeds the speed limit set in their canal system. They have thousands of narrow boats and many take long very slow trips. I know apple and oranges, but their are people who are about the trip not the speed. Also your Whaler could easily have a couple 400 watt bifacial solar panels to help out as well and give you cover from sun and weather. Great video btw! 👍
Yeah we are limited to 6 mph in some areas of my river - and yes this boat could be a good candidate for a solar roof.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy could even use the flexible ones that you can walk on. Nice fishing boat
Sorry you live where there are speed limits for boats. Thankfully here in the southern USA where I live there are no speed limits for boats. 🇺🇸😊
@@maxsparks5183 he is on Saltwater, when do the Feds step I ? I’m on the intercoastal
Hi Wayne ,,
Glad ive found this channel,,. as i find myself increasingly closer to the inevitable " 1st dip into boat ownership".
Alot of good content which has got me thinking more about what i require from a small vessel and power source.
I work as a Heating Engineer primarily in renewables , So your Vlogs on Electric/ Solar in particular are of interest.
any other recommendations woupd be much appreciated,,
keep up the Great content..
Atb
Ry from Cornwall 👍
It seems like the performance of these electric boat products is getting a lot better.
0:06 ohh yea, you got my interest and attention
Trolling motors pair nicely with a marine battery. Outboard motors pair well with gas. Let's make gas outboards great again! 😄😄😄
Great video I learned a lot about the motor thanks
I have two 170 sunpower flexible on my bimini though I bought them before the tariff. Lfp batteries. my boat is almost cheap as sunlight to operate at low speeds but it's a hybrid for now. There are now big enough electric outboards that I could switch
I saw that you wrote about needing trailer guides, the problems you had when ramping the boat up would have been easy to fix by just parking closer to the dock/jetty and having the boat further out so that you had more space to turn the boat, hope this helps!
Helpful tip: when puting your boat onto your trailer, leave 1/4 of your carpeted skid pads out of the water, when you back your trailer into the water, this will help keep your boat centered on the trailer when your getting your boat out of the water, when you back your trailer too far into the water, your boat won't want to stay properly aligned with the trailer, so it will be off to one side and leaning when you pull forward, so leave one forth of your skids out of the water, and you will find the boat centers perfectly every time. 😎👍
Yeah my trailer was in too deep! Good tip!!
I paid $469 between my $55 thrust motor in my 100 amp battery lithium phosphate and it works perfectly fine and I can run my boat for almost 10 hours and it goes 4 mph works fine!
Love the set up (if it was me I'd look at adding a front seat and close to traditional steering for that style boat) even with the water logged boat a Boston whaler is amazing and likely will never sink. Still love yur set up cant wait to see what ya do, consider a small solar panel near the front of the boat?
Yeah I am rethinking my seating and there's certainly room for some solar!
My pet peeves in regards to ePropulsions and the likes is that they do not have any of the functionality of a bow/transom mounted trolling motor. It would be awesome to have a 3hp electric motor to have those functions for trolling for bigger, meaner, faster fishes like muskies, pikes and the like. I have a 19 footer and unless I go 36-48v, I wouldn't be able to do so, so ePropulsion would be a great alternative, but the lack of functions is killing the appeal. Could you imagine a 3hp electric outboard capable of following routes, anchor in heavy winds/wakes, troll at any given speed, etc? That'd be a dream.
I just got a Garmin Kraken trolling motor. It can drag a 28ft boat at 3mph. On Wayne’s boat it will FLY.
I seriously doubt it.
From what I saw on specs, it has less power then Epropulsion.
@@goranraos7016 the Kraken draws 54A / 36v at 100% power. That’s 1944W. That’s almost 2x the rated power of the epropulsion.
RUclips won’t let me post links, but search for captian Paul Kim kraken first impression. He has a video that shows the run speed on his big catamaran.
@@axscdvfb
I must have seen a different model? Could you link the cutest one?
Great video and really informative. I mainly fish the Swan River in Western Australia and there is a 5 knot limit in most of the areas I fish, so this topic really interests me. My boat 'The Pocket Rocket' is ever evolving, and my aim is to eventually get rid of the 50hp petrol outboard and replace with an electric motor, but I'll keep the Motorguide on the bow. I'm considering removing the fuel tank and putting a large Lith battery in its place. It's some time off becoming an affordable option, but great to see the stuff you are doing. Thanks for sharing.
Yeah it is handy when we're in speed restricted areas and running motors that can't exceed any speed limits.
This would be great in an offgrid home, but for primary boat propulsion gasoline is still king.
I just bought two of the Li-Time 24v, 100AH batteries, for $506/ea. I am wiring them in series (for which they are rated) to get 48 volts. This is for a home storage solution, but it could absolutely do the exact same thing as the Epoch battery in this video...at $700 less.
That's awesome. I'm not sure if the Li-Time batteries are marine rated though.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy - Some of them are, but they do cost a little more. Still not as much as the one from Epoch, which is really a top-notch product.
West Marine was having a sale on Li-Ion batteries maybe at a lower price
Hey Wayne long time subscriber here, thank you for the video! It's always really interesting to explore new technologies for boats this video was an interesting watch to see how it performs. Can I ask what got you into boats?
All the best J from the UK.
I got into boats because a few years ago we moved to a community that was close to the water. Almost everyone in the neighborhood has a boat and the boat ramp is really close to my house so I figured it was a good time to learn about boats!
The whaler with the navy 9.9hp would be a beast
Yeah - This boat is begging for a bigger motor!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy reno the bathroom and I’m sure you’ll be able to sell it to the wife
A boat if never a “beast” if it’s a planing hull but the propulsion can’t make it plane
Electric in situations like this is great. Allows for money to go into R&D for batteries and motors without people needing to buy whole cars. Plus for most people boats and especially small boats are not an essential for everyday life, so the downsides of charging are felt way less
ego battery rack mount $1100 same size. Depends what you need. Nice thing is if you can use the rack mount it's easy to transfer to use with home solar when not boating or use in other vehicle.
Rack mount certainly has cool possibilities!
Hi Wayne. That's a nice battery for sure and you should be able to do 9hrs+ at 500 watts, so you'll likely have no range anxiety if you stay down at that power output.
I am running a 24v 70lb trolling motor that runs at 42 amps at 24v = 1008 watts, so about the same as yours.
I am using an inflatable Intex Mariner 4 with an 8kw home made battery I built last winter, so of course I have no range anxiety either. I can go 4mph (at 540 watts) for over 15hrs, so 60 mile range! When I increase to full throttle (1kw) I only get 4.5mph, so not worth it for me.
I have gone out and ran the thing at 540watts for 7 hrs, so, about 21 miles a few times this year.
That battery you bought is very nice, and a good price, but doesn't work for me. My battery is 100lbs as well, but I broke it down into 4 blocks of 25lbs each. And since I have to set up and tear down my boat every time I go out, and I am 60 yrs old and still want to do this for many more years, I needed something manageable. I'm guessing they sell a smaller battery that you can then put in series or parallel (be extra careful putting lithium in parallel, just fyi!), so I guess it's probably still doable.
My batteries are 8s2p ( actually 120 cells in parallel and 8 in series). Each 25lb block is 4s60p and I have two sets in series to get 2 packs of 8s that I then hook up (very carefully) in parallel. So my voltage range is 24v at empty and 33.6v at full. It is over volted and that is dangerous as well, but I stay at about 30a (18ishv) out of my cheap 200a Chinese PWM. So it's all good. I guess I should make a vid and post it on my new system, but I'm too busy having fun cruisin'
Yeah this battery is not easily moved!
So much less complex and reliable then gas. Not sure of timescales but this IS the future.
You may get better speeds with the new battery as it's rated at a higher raw voltage and larger capacity so it should have less sag given the same load as the smaller, lower quiescent voltage unit.
There is open source electric motor controller firmware that ends up being applicable to any device (initially developed for drones, IIRC) that uses a battery; when you change your battery, if your motor core can handle it, you can also tweak your performance to match the fuel.
Can get sealed (waterproof) car/truck case style 48v 100Ah 100>200A with BMS and 10A charger for
I don’t know how I would feel about plunking down a 100 pound battery on the floor of my 12’ Jon boat. Just that 100 pounds would slow the boat down. I just think if you’re a fresh water fisherman, you can’t take that long to get to the next spot. Half of your time on the water would be consumed just in travel time.
There’s so many variables and this setup is only right for some.
15 hp yamaha over that all day long. Way underpowered. This video probably is going to help a lot of people make a decision on that outboard.. The battery is great.!!!!!!!!
Yeah a 15 hp provides a lot more appropriate power and speed for a boat like this than a 3 hp!
If you install a roof of any kind, you will be in the shade. Get a rod, reel and a deep diving lure and go catch dinner.
Here is a free experiment you can try. Raise the motor on the transom about an inch. You may pick up a little bit of speed. You can raise it by just laying a strip of something…like wood….on the top of the transom when putting the motor on. The higher the motor the less drag you create and rpm’s at a given setting will be higher. However, you can be too high and suck air……but it’s easily readjusted if that’s the case.
RPM, don't pluralize a plural
Yeah I actually think this motor sits a little bit high on this transom and not low - but there’s usually room for improvement.
@@rickc303suck a rock.
well, you can also put a large solar panel as the floor of a boat.
hook up a battery shunt to be able to monitor the battery capacity.
You could add a large solar top, a solar charge controller, then you won't need that much battery. It looks like your boat can add 600 watt solar top. So you can add roughly 400 watt hour every hour.
600 watt solar top only add about 20 pounds weight.
You can add the solar top no matter what. It can make you go even further.
Charging at full on your charger will not even get that battery warm much less hot. It will not hurt it a bit...That is a NICE battery...I use four 50 Ah lithium batteries in my little 12' Pond Prowler one man fishing boat with the same EPropulsion Spirit Plus.... I get roughly 2.5 hr of run time at full speed which is right at 5 mph. By the way, the longer the boat, the faster it will tend to go in displacement mode with similar hull designs...My guess is you were getting about 5.25mph at full speed. I would also note that the Sprit pulls right at 20 amp at full speed so you run time is 100ah/20a = 4 hours or about 20 mies of range.
Yeah I can't imagine needing any more range than that when I'm only going 5 mph!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy I am going to add 500W Bifacial solar panels to my Electric pontoon, but it is mainly to charge it over time. Not really useful for run time. Theses will basically stick out over the outboard on the rear where they will get the most sun as my dock faces due west... I think I will do a video on my three electric boats....I really like your channel and the projects you are working on. The Jimmy skiff II is a GREAT build...
I know many are going Green. But where allowed will still use my 2 Stroke Johnson 15Hp that will plane my old 12 ft Starcraft with 4 people and gear. Most where I fish is big water. 30-45 minutes runs usual. I you just put-put arround a trolling motor enough👍
Whatever works for you. Nothing wrong with electric or gas. It's all about what we want and need for our desired purpose. I support the right to have what we want for what we want. I run electric hybrid on my micro trawler. My buddies run outboards. My dinghy has a electric only outboard. It's all our choice.
@@WillyK51 you put 4 people on a 12 footer??
*Wild*
@@74nova36 They fit, plenty freeboard Often don't fish alone, place 2 on shore to wade and 2 casting on the boat plus loaded cooler, and gear. 15 Hp will plane easily
It's early days for electric motors and boats. What you are looking at is an early upgrade. Obviously, electric motors can make loads of power. Ever hear of the Tesla Model S Plaid, Lucid Saphire, or Rimac Nevera. Of course they need, and have batteries that are 100-120kwh, compared to this battery which is 4.8kwh, so upsizing is one option. The other trick I've seen which is fancy, but very effective, is combining it with hydrofoils. That triples the range at speed. So that really expands what you can do. Nobody makes battery boats that cross the atlantic. I think electric motors are going to take over from gas in small lakes with horsepower limits pretty quick, but long distance will take time or money.
Electric is coming, growing, and not going away. There is definitely a future for this but not for everyone yet. I don't like the charge time. Fill a gas tank(even with mixing) 10 minutes. Charge a battery, hours. Same with cars. Solar panels help with that but don't fix it. When they can use easily replaceable power cell for cars or boats, then we will have a true game changer
would make a nice kicker tbh
5 gal fuel tank and a 10HP merc nothings wrong with it and if you can't afford 5 gals of gas you can't afford 48Volt 2k battery and charger
This option isn't more cost effective, but it does have other benefits over gasoline engines (and I am not talking about pollution) that some boaters really appreciate.
I now run two 12v lead/acid batteries in series for my trolling motor. I'd love to lose the weight with an Li battery, but just can't get past the $1000 cost.
The price has come down - a 24 volt LiFePo set up is now pretty reasonable.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy from Tiny Boat Nation?
Just like The Monkees, "I'm a Beleeber!"
That’s what I hear in my head!
Any small flexible solar panel to charge the battery?
Great Video
Solar panels have been around for decades now. You must know that!
Prices will come down and tech will go up. This is a great set up for many small lakes that don't allow gas or for people who don't want to deal with gas. Also, a brand new gas motor isn't exactly cheap. Not sure what the price comparison is, but its worth a look based on your needs!
The up front costs are still a bit higher for an electric - but after a few years it has the potential to be more cost effective
@@WayneTheBoatGuy also for safety petrol motors have to be serviced every year which of you don't do it yourself is expensive. I honestly think that for smaller lakes and some inshore sea activities, things will go electric.
The pleasure of being on the water in silence and without noxious 2 stroke gasses around you is worth twice the price!
@marviwilson1853 I agree, the beauty of being in nature is enhanced by quiet motors. Also you can sneak up on spooky trout and there is v little risk of pollution (petrol spills and oil leaks etc). Think they are great.
Great video but one should NEVER run any outboard out of the water without either removing the propeller or sticking a large bucket or garbage can under it to protect your legs, plastic propeller or not. Don’t worry about the safety of the battery, worry about yourself and your loved ones.
Hp equivelece for a boat motor is meaningless, especially for such a small motor. Usually, they are comparing torque, but that only dictates the acceleration rate, not top speed. If it takes 10 seconds more or less to get up to top speed in a boat like this, nobody cares.
This is a 1⅓ Hp motor. It is deceptive to call it anything else.
Now, for cars, given the amount of time you spend accelerating, it makes a difference. Car gas engines are often over sized to get the acceleration so a much smaller electric can have similar performance. I still dont like the comparison, but at least it makes sense.
So everyone should start calling these companies out for deceptive marketing practices.
Still a bit pricey but marine grade is always a premium.
I have a propulsion 1.0 original which runs at 40 V. But they usually means there’s a range. Is there a step down that I could use with one of the 48 V lithium batteries so that I could use that with my propulsion original?
Question: If high power throttle on 3hp electric drive gives half the range, what happens if, rather than 'cutting power' to get range, you pay more for a higher horsepower motor, say 6hp (if available) and run that at half speed? Is there an economy of scale?
Not really. For boats that are running in displacement mode (not planing or foiling), to double the speed requires eight times the power. Doubling the speed requires double the power, doubled again, then doubled once more.
In other words, if it takes 500W to go 5 mph, it would take 4,000W to go 10 mph.
Likewise, doubling the motor's 500W to 1,000W gets you a speed increase of only just 1.2 mph. Power is doubled (x2) so the speed increase is the cube root of that, (cube root of 2 is 1.26); 5mph * 1.26 = ~6.3 mph for double the power input.
Power required goes up as the cube of speed. Slowing down just a little bit saves a tremendous amount of energy.
Given motor efficiencies are the same for each case, a 3hp motor running at full whack will give the same range as a 6hp motor running at half power for a given KWHr battery capacity when running at the same boat speed.
Great, real world video, lot of good information well presented. One question....1 hp=750 watts. So running full out at maximum 3 hp rating would require at least 2250 watts draw yet your full out was only 1000 watts draw. Not enough battery amps to power 3 hp worth? Second question...does it really weigh 96 lbs? My 48 volt 50 amp litthium battery made out of a portion of a chevy volt battery pack only weighs 35 lbs. I thought litthium would be lighter. Great video.
It's low power density Lithium iron phosphate, LFP, not Lithium ion ternary, which are lighter per unit weight.
Yeah I don't understand how all of the electric outboard manufacturers rate the "equivalent power" because it doesn't match up with horsepower/watts. This motor draws 1,000 watts at full power but is considered a 3 hp "equivalent". Same goes for Torqeedo and Newport etc. I have compared this with older 2 stroke gasoline motors of similar horsepower and the gasoline engines have slightly more top speed (but only slightly). With regards to the battery pack - without the packaging it comes in at 92 lbs. Maybe the heating/cooling and BMS (and perhaps the water-rated case itself) probably help contribute to the weight. A friend just purchased a different brand 48 volt 50 Ah and it weighed half of this battery which makes some sense.
Thank you both for the intelligent responses. I think both of you are correct in your respective answers. I have heard the 3 to 1 rough equivilancy before but I didn't know manufacturers used it in their advertising. And the different chemistries would account for weight discrepancies. I'm groping around in the dark trying to build an amphibious launch to be used in improving human created wetlands for a turtle conservation organization called a turtle for every log. I'm using electric motors to operate two mudmotors for water propulsion and 4 more electric motors to operate 4 pairs of retractable wheels attached to 4 walking beams for suspension. To say I have few examples to draw from is an understatement so whenevers. I run across applicable information i am very grateful. I also have enjoyed your videos down to earth presentations for quite awhile.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy I suspect its based on 'equivalency in useful energy' as opposed to rated power capacity. The disclosure is probably an asterisk on the box in font 5 or 6.
i get the idea if it was a backup or kicker motor on a big boat, maybe even a tender, but i dont see the appeal for boats like that, so much money for a whole lot of "meh"
Yeah this motor was not designed to be used on this boat - but it's my test mule!
How many minutes did you run at max power to get to the 77%? I have the same motor, and you've inspired me to do this battery upgrade. Thanks for sharing!
In total I probably ran at top speed for almost 2 hours and lower speeds for at least 30 more minutes.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy Thank you! I appreciate you and your channel.
1000 watts is only 1.34 horsepower if there were no losses in the drive system at all. It's not at all 3hp equivalent.
ePropulsion Navy 6.0 will be a better match with this battery and your boat. 8-)
Yes it would!
Someone I know converted his sailboat to electric and used this battery.
Sailboat hulls are cool for this type of project.
The crows agree
watch out for sharks!!
Only it doesn't catch fire, like some electric cars. Exciting.
LFP chemistry doesn't catch fire like some petrol cars, or Lithium ion. No thermal runaway.
@@AndrewSheldon Thanks.
That prop doesn’t look like it was designed for the top speed rating.
Does it ever get hot? I want to use it on my inflatable boat
Not too hot. The motor itself is below the water (which cools it) and the cables can sometimes get warm but not really hot.
If it was 24 volt I know some boat lifts that could use it.
I think they do offer 24 volt batteries as well
batteries in boats for propulsion are generally stupid..weight is always there,and don't get them wet as fire result when do. good luck trying to put out one of those fires in a boat.
Water doesn't set one of these batteries on fire.
Would any 48v battery equivalent on Amazon which cost less work?
Ideally you should probably run marine-rated 48 volt batteries. But yes, there are other options.
The motor never concerns itself with the price of the battery, only with its specification!
@@marviwilson1853 I did say equivalent
What kind of boat is that?
It is an old Boston Whaler - probably a Nausett which came before Montauk. It isn't quite 17 feet long and in terrible shape. I have videos about it.
BEEN TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE THAT!!!!!! BUT THEY ARE SO HUNG UP ON anti EV''S THAT THEY don't HEAR OR SEE ANYTHING ELSE !!! fyi in the next two to five years the amount of power batteries can hold will go up 100 to 300 %
Should run 4.8 hours with no energy loss. There is energy loss, so just under that. But, that’s still awesome!
100Ah x 48v = 4800Wh
Your motor was using roughly 1000 watts, so 4800Wh would give you 4.8 hours. Of course, the watts were not exact, and you have some loss to heat, etc. but it’s a close estimation. 👍
You probably can't use this battery with a torqeedo travel or can you?
If the Torqeedo uses 48 volt and you have a cable to use a third party battery - then I think you could.
This is a 48v battery. Obviously DC. If your Torqeedo motor is also 48v then it will work. The battery is capable of outputting up to 120Amp continuous current which equates to just over 5.7 Kw of continuous power. Battery has over current protection in case your Torqeedo motor power is above this figure.
A 100lb battery is a bad idea. You can connect smaller ones to get the same capacity. Way better.
interesting story. But for me, $300 for a good 3 HP gas motor leave a WHOLE lot of $$ to buy gas. Technology is not feasible yet.
I already have long range electric power for my electric motor. Its called a generator. Lol. Joking not joking. I run hybrid.
Even back in the 70s a good deep cycle battery would last all day, and you’re trying to sell us on a package that cost more than a 15 horse four stroke of any model lol😂😂😂😂 btw 4 years from now that battery will be at its half life at best. Enjoy sailor keep me laughing I love your videos.
sharks gonna eat you if you sink? I'm joking cuz of what trump said..... lol
😊
Wayne, if you had to spend your own money to purchase this setup would you? Right now the price of this setup is beyond what the average person can afford especially when you can get a decent gas outboard new or used at a lower price. I really like this concept and hopefully the price will drop in a few years......
Boston Whalerrrrr!!!
1000watts is not 3 HP. Its about 1.2 hp. 3 HP would be 2300 watts. So i don't know where they get that metric from....
@@Underpantsniper Because they call it 3hp "equivalent". Equivalent is the important word here and I believe it equates to the amount of static thrust the motor produces (being roughly equivalent to the static thrust of a 3hp gas outboard). I'm not arguing the validity (or otherwise) of this metric, just pointing out the apparent discrepancy. 😉
Because you only need 1000watts electric motor to have the same power as a 3hp ice motor.
Start questioning the power output of the ice engines...
@@Flaggyt I did, they should use a thrust measurement instead of HP
A 3Hp might be rated at the power head and the through the running gear to the prop
@@Underpantsniper I own one and the motor is way more powerful than my 2.5hp Yamaha. So I would say it doesn’t matter what numbers are advertised it is definitely 3hp or more equivalent. It is my favorite most used motor. I have several Yamahas but love this small EPropulsion Spirit 1.0 plus.
Ep ick?
Or E -pock - I hear people say both
@@WayneTheBoatGuy eh-pock I think. Idk lol
That's a big battery lol
Yeah it is!
bro that battery capacity is for home usage normally, lmao
And now it’s for a boat!
If you turn the motor down to
.5 mph your range and time
On the water will be amazing 😊
Yeah these things will crawl for days!
96lbs. Sheesh!
Yeah - a bit heavier than a 12 volt lead acid!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy whatever gets you on the water. Too bad you can’t mount it a little more forward to offset your own weight
How does that compare to an equivalent tank of gas? A 12 gallon tank isn’t far off!
@@Veeefour 12 gallons with a 3 horse power 4-stroke would get you over the range of this by double I bet
Yep electric just ain't there yet.
3HP is 2,238 watts. 746 Watts = 1 HP. I don't know what the manufacture means by equivalent. Power Output = Power Output. Horsepower is calculated from a KW output.
Yeah I don't quite understand the electric outboard math that all the brands (Torqeedo, Newport, ePropulsion etc.) use either. But I do know that when I have run this against my 2.5 hp 2 stroke gas engine - the top speed and power are very similar. These electrics seem to push a little better at lower speeds and the old 2 strokes have a bit more top speed.
Would it not be that a battery gets 95% efficiency, whilst petrol ICE motor gets 38% efficiency from fuel to mechanical conversion? Just fuel is more concentrated energy. 20x more I think per weight.
Sounds like he keeps sayin "Lithium Iron battery"...I thought it was Lithium-Ion battery.......
There are lithium ion batteries and the LiFePo4 batteries are lithium iron phosphate (Fe is iron in the periodic table). Even though the box says “ion” I was told that these are LiFePo4
Just get a 3hp Honda or something lol
This is a lot quieter and easier to operate
@@WayneTheBoatGuy and about 3000 more expensive
Anybody see the president of the united states, he’s missing 😢
Can’t sell me on electric gas for me
I totally get it - but maybe someday!
What is your range and different speeds? Say 5mph?
Sounds like it is. way over priced.