Using Data To Answer Pokemon's Biggest Controversy

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 15 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 99

  • @GappyV
    @GappyV 4 дня назад +124

    your unemployed friend at 3 pm:

  • @JaceGarrdok
    @JaceGarrdok 4 дня назад +47

    Fun fact: If you used Surf with Sharpedo specifically, you have a special surfing animation with it and it has double swim speed compared to any other pokemon you can surf with

    • @Rot8erConeX
      @Rot8erConeX 4 дня назад +3

      But as a tradeoff, you cannot fish while riding Sharpedo.

    • @Joaquin-rd3km
      @Joaquin-rd3km 4 дня назад +5

      Also works with Kyogre

  • @Mudsk1p
    @Mudsk1p 4 дня назад +59

    I didn’t realize how much they shrunk the maps between RSE & ORAS

    • @Vassilinia
      @Vassilinia 4 дня назад +10

      Going 3d really was a mistake. All the best and most feature-filled games were 2D. I'll never forgive Game Freak for the insulting Battle Frontier mention in OR AS.

    • @arkaua
      @arkaua 4 дня назад +5

      ​@@VassiliniaSame, the Battle Frontier mention in ORAS made me quit the franchise permanently, I never bought another game after it and never looked back, what an unbelievable spit in the face that was

    • @HowManySmall
      @HowManySmall 2 дня назад

      ​@@arkauato be fair it's not emerald lol

  • @droomish1
    @droomish1 4 дня назад +25

    I'm just so impressed with so many things about this analysis.. one of my favorite things is a deep data driven look at memes or community talking points, beautiful work

  • @EnsignEpic
    @EnsignEpic 4 дня назад +10

    "Too much water" has been a complaint about Hoenn since Gen 3 came out. I remember knowing that back when it came out & I was even in my "too cool for Pokemon" phase back then. Probably has some degree to do with how much water FRLG had in regards to the Sevii Islands, as well, since it's the same gen. LOTS of water in Gen 3, honestly. The game reviewer wasn't saying anything that was controversial, and yet...

  • @Wig_Girl
    @Wig_Girl 4 дня назад +19

    Everyone is always so quick to jump down a reviewer throat over a review score that was still over all positive. If people actually read the reviews they get mad about, the world would be a much better place.

    • @slouch186
      @slouch186 4 дня назад +4

      if a RUclipsr had released an hour long video essay complaining about water i guarantee that the community would have all gotten on board.

  • @TeamAquasHideout
    @TeamAquasHideout 4 дня назад +31

    Absolutely not, it needs more if anything

    • @SnareGG
      @SnareGG 4 дня назад +10

      username checks out

  • @celtyrysuje
    @celtyrysuje 4 дня назад +30

    70% water, 90% trumpets, 100% Zigzagoon :)

  • @iambor1393
    @iambor1393 4 дня назад +7

    I mean, you don't need fly at all once you unlock the Eon flute in ORAS. Dive is pretty situational too, you won't need it for most of postgame. But the rest I agree with.

  • @cloveNeroli
    @cloveNeroli 4 дня назад +15

    “But it’s based off of southern Japan where all the islands are. Of course it’s gonna have a lot of water.”

    • @xXJ4FARGAMERXx
      @xXJ4FARGAMERXx 4 дня назад +2

      It counts even if they have a single water type
      So jimmy with a wingull is apparently a water trainer now

  • @TophDaGreat
    @TophDaGreat 4 дня назад +9

    Its been awhile since I played the og 3rd gen games but I remember the end game and victory road in particular needing a lot of HM's to traverse. It was rather annoying to be fair.

  • @cptnomar492
    @cptnomar492 4 дня назад +7

    Yall clown on her but she was correct. The water sections can be disorientating, the water looks so similar to the point that I wouldn't know where I am half the time. The interesting thing about said review is that only the "too much water" criticism was only levied at ORAS, the original Ruby and Sapphire review does not critic it for that reason, even though the water over there is much worse

  • @PaladinYT
    @PaladinYT 4 дня назад +14

    yea hoenn water sucks, needs more softlocking tide pools

  • @Petrico94
    @Petrico94 4 дня назад +6

    People despise Zubat because it is pretty much the only thing to find in caves, a massive patch of grass you can't escape and are often plot important. Surf feels the same way, going into a cave with nothing but tentacool and wingull. RSE especially has a huge water area and a late game about exploring it for the next gym and base. I like they made it easier to get through in the remake, but it's still as rough as Seafoam Island with no Pallet Town back door. Ya repel are a thing but as a kid I don't want to have to use items even when they're beneficial, it's my money and I want it.
    I wouldn't say the game is too water focused or pushes players to level their water types too much, water is still a powerful type regardless. DPP is probably where HMs started to break and you had too many to juggle but Hoenn is the surf kingdom with not just a straight water way but an ocean to get lost in, only rivaled by some parts in Johto.

  • @arkaua
    @arkaua 4 дня назад +11

    Why would you ever use Fly in ORAS? The Eon Flute is a direct Fly replacer as a key item

    • @HamisGood12
      @HamisGood12 4 дня назад +7

      The fly HM can be used to fast travel with the map for trainer rematches or berries. Rather than exiting the map, using the eon flute, -animation- soaring over to where you need to go, then landing -animation-. This takes longer in menu navigation alone.
      TLDR: Convenience

    • @ilhansoyler2935
      @ilhansoyler2935 4 дня назад +1

      @@HamisGood12 tbh I only ever used fly when using the bottom screen map to hunt specific pokemon in their biomes, for convenience as you said, but every other time riding mega-latios and seeing the whole hoenn map from the sky was way too cool to use fly, I loved using the eon flute and I think they should've brought that back in later games, it's one of the best additions imo, especially because it's also needed to get to the lengendaries and mirage islands, so it's still a good contestant to fly

    • @collapsedlung_
      @collapsedlung_ 3 дня назад +1

      ​@@ilhansoyler2935Yeah but people are too impatient these days. I would love to be able to fly everywhere and it not just be a loading screen. Inconvenient travel methods like boats and silt striders in Morrowind are objectively better than "Press button anywhere in the world to teleport" for the sake of convenience.

  • @catriamflockentanz
    @catriamflockentanz 4 дня назад +3

    7:10 That is a moot point though.
    There is little to no reason to use HM Fly in ORAS. Given you get the Eon Flute to just call one of the Lati Twins whenever you want.
    Giving you access to Fly without "sacrificing" a moveslot or a even a teamslot and that about a whole route before you even get Fly at all.

    • @deepseamuse
      @deepseamuse 4 дня назад

      Actually, while you do get the Latis just before reaching Fortree, you don't get the eon flute (and thus the ability to soar) until after you face Groudon/Kyogre. Understandable mistake though, why tf do they give you a mega evolving legendary that early and easily

  • @Eloridas
    @Eloridas 4 дня назад +1

    The Balance between Water and Land was an important topic in the narrative of the game. So Hoenn having so much water was wanted for the theming of the narrativ.
    Ruby and Saphire was a lot about living with nature. Yes there is a lot of water there, but removing the water like team magma wanted that, is the wrong way. We had to life with nature, we cant life against nature. So the people of Hoenn life with nature and build a city completely on water for example. So having so much water might be annoying for the player sometimes, but it was important for the meta commentary.

  • @Namingway248
    @Namingway248 4 дня назад +4

    water is resistant to water. Therefore, of the over 1/3 of trainers who have a water type, the effective amount of water resistant trainers is way higher (I originally misheard you and edited this section). Quality over quantity is also a very important matter when speaking in terms of emerald, as you have to deal with both juan and wallace in end game, which water types aren't going to be particularly helpful for. Either way, these are rse stats and not oras stats. knowing them doesn't really tell me if oras changed anything to make this better or not, so its not really relevant to the oras water complaint, and if its exactly the same, you can't really blame a remake for not significantly changing around most battles.
    20% is wingull's emerald 103 encounter rate, its not new to oras
    route 114 no longer has lotad outside of horde encounters. the 40% for lombre is just lombre's sapphire 30% plus lotad's 10% because they both used to be there.
    Whats more, lotad's 102 encounter rate is down to 15% from 20%, and 102 is the route you'd even be looking for one anyway if you were seriously wanting to use it. Notably absent from your data set.
    route 117 is right next to wattson's gym so it isn't exactly incentivized you use that marril, but it's added fairy type makes sense as to why they'd want you to see it slightly more often. The only other gen 3 fairy types are ralts and mawile, both of which are rare and one of which is version exclusive. It's important to think about this in context.
    Regardless, the -5% lotad off of 102 offsets the +5% to marril on 117, meaning there is at most a 2% discrepancy towards wingull specifically, whose already also competing with tailow for a party spot in many ways. I'd call that pretty marginal.
    Route 110, 114 and 117 need you to trigger the peko event that only happens after beating Roxanne. You also have an answer to roxanne no matter what, as rocks are weak to water and grass and its perfectly feasible to have double kick combusken before challenging her. rock tomb is also her key move which makes wingull just a non-solution. It's not one-shotting nosepass +speedown almost guarantees it isn't getting two turns to try. In addition to that, in rse you're given bullet seed and a story hint to catch shroomish right before rustboro. This (if anything) feels like the most intended strat, though bullet seed is no longer a tm in oras. In a way, this argument is like saying driftveil drawbridge ducklett is meant to be a counter to clay, regardless of the fact swanna stands zero chance against him.
    Sharpedo surfs faster than other pokemon so if the water routes are really that tedious, you can basically use a party slot as a mach bike while navigating them. It's not the best solution but it is a solution in addition to changing map size that addresses the issue while staying a faithful remake. I genuinely don't see much else it could have done, oras addresses the abundance of water as best as possible while trying to remain faithful to the games it is remaking.

  • @gianlucaangeli
    @gianlucaangeli 4 дня назад +36

    it's wild to me that the abundance of water was the main problem and not the ""removal"" of the battle frontier.

    • @Bric_13
      @Bric_13 4 дня назад +1

      @@gianlucaangeli real

    • @arkaua
      @arkaua 4 дня назад +7

      Or the removal of Emerald content in general

    • @genarftheunfuni5227
      @genarftheunfuni5227 4 дня назад

      Eh, I really wouldn't care much for the BF
      There was no incentive to touch it in the first place, and no proper reward in case you did try it out. As well as a very artificial and skilless progression of difficulty.
      Yes, making teams is easier than in Gen 3, but still a very time-consuming task.
      (Also the BF is just overall mixed quality, half the new areas that weren't the tower are mediocre and the other one is enjoyable. If it was for me, only the Arena, Pyramid and Factory should've returned because they were the only good ones).
      To me, if any of the removed content in Emerald had to return, it's only the gym leader rematches, and nothing else.

    • @lol0999
      @lol0999 4 дня назад +1

      To be fair, to casuals who just play through the game and then maybe do a bit of the post-game like catch a few legendaries and a bit of post-story, they don't interact with the Battle Frontier/similar things in other games. It's very intimidating to get into it and the rewards are more aimed at people who play competitive Pokemon.
      Of course it should have been in the game and it's brought up a lot because the most vocal fans are usually the ones who are more to the hardcore of things, so care about this thing. But I imagine for a lot of fans, they didn't care/didn't even know it was a thing in the originals.

    • @catriamflockentanz
      @catriamflockentanz 4 дня назад +3

      ​@@lol0999True. But the optics were terrible.
      They added a Battle Frontier to the Johto Remakes (and no that it is borderline copy pasted from Platinum isn't making this a pointless argument) and removed the one that already was in Hoenn.
      How are you supposed to react to that.
      That's why I honestly dread the eventual Gen 5 Remakes.
      They most likely will Remake BW, with blinders on, dilligently ignore anything that B2/W2 brought to the table. Leaving Unova in an 'incomplete' state...
      Would the South East and the North West of the Region as Postgame Areas really be too much to ask?

  • @SonplaysMinEcraft
    @SonplaysMinEcraft 4 дня назад +4

    hoenn mfs when "gen 4 is too slow" 😌😴😎
    hoenn mfs when "too much water" 🙉🤯🤬🗣😱

  • @EliasMorals
    @EliasMorals 4 дня назад +2

    The only reason ive gone through some playthroughs without fly is because they were nuzlockes and all my flying types were dead and fly is indeed not required to beat the game, so i couldnt do the HM clause

  • @Nofurne
    @Nofurne 4 дня назад +3

    Cool concept and execution, hoping to see more videos in this style in the future.

  • @dominicmoisant8393
    @dominicmoisant8393 4 дня назад +1

    You don't need cut to get to Surge's gym you can wait until you get surf but you do need it to go east of Cerulean

  • @GreenHencel
    @GreenHencel 4 дня назад +3

    Doesn't seem like such a bad thing to me... idk... - Based Treecko enjoyer

  • @yeldarb300
    @yeldarb300 4 дня назад +2

    IGN still has a ton of awful reviews, but i’ll give credit where it’s due. When Scarlet/Violet released, they gave it a 6/10, which I think is the lowest score for any mainline pokemon game. After the final dlc released, they gave it a rating of 5/10 and openly called it “mediocre.” Props to them for putting their free review copies in jeopardy.

  • @mementolin
    @mementolin 4 дня назад +2

    I feel like Water Routes were always one of the weaker parts of Pokemon. No one liked facing 2343523235 tentacool in 5 tiles. Though it's fun to see how much they decreased that issue and still that was probably the core of what "Too much water" meant. (I've read something that said taht someone else is in charge of doing the summarizing and they misunderstood the stuff). That said, ORAS isn't a 7.8 game. It's more an... I'll just round to 8.5 for the game. It's solid lazy fun. I like it. But it's nothing s;pecial. It's just the original RS in 3d with the mechs of X and Y. One can argue DexNav is new, but that's a tiny part of an otherwise satisfactory game.

    • @slouch186
      @slouch186 4 дня назад

      i am gonna be honest i have no idea what the meaningful difference is supposed to be between a 7.8 and an 8.5. the numbers are arbitrary

  • @MaxArceus
    @MaxArceus День назад

    "More water", yes, but "too much"? I don't think so.

  • @bestbeekeeper8931
    @bestbeekeeper8931 3 часа назад

    another point that goes unmentioned in this video is that mudkip(a water type) is by far and away the best pokemon in the game. like breaks it in half, even without a mega evolution. you might argue that ten year olds wouldn't notice this, which is probably true, but the point is more so that the game is so poorly balanced around the water type starter that you're effectively punished for picking anything other than water

  • @CRH4000
    @CRH4000 3 дня назад

    Its refreshing to see a meaningful discussion about this topic

  • @eklxtreme
    @eklxtreme 12 часов назад

    bravo acko on the strong supporting evidence, this is exactly the type of content I need

  • @doorto6152
    @doorto6152 4 дня назад +1

    Sweet video. Great presentation. Excellent use of data. Good voice over. Pretty sweet. Reminds me of SmithsPlaysPokemon going into the data of which pokemon are useful during a campaign.
    I’m curious what other topics that we can find another side to if we go into the data. Like, comparing dexit between Gen 8 and 9. How many mons did the games have at launch/with dlc? How many of those overlap? For those in Gen 8 but not 9, can we infer why through these exceptions? What does the type diversity look like for both games? Etc etc

    • @ackoladeTV
      @ackoladeTV  4 дня назад

      ooooh, great idea! i’ll look into it

  • @emilytheimp
    @emilytheimp 4 дня назад

    Holy shit ORAS turns 10 years old this year... This is wild even to me... time flies

  • @semajniomet981
    @semajniomet981 4 дня назад

    `7:41 My problem with this is the fact that they not only removed them from the game, but that they also removed any ability to use any move on the overworld, including Teleport, Dig, and Sweet Scent.

  • @CRH4000
    @CRH4000 3 дня назад

    Too much water is a completely reasonably complaint to me every time you want to surf there you have you go through dialogue asking you if you want to surf when there is no reason for it to be there why else would I be interacting with the water then you have to sit through a short animation the whole process is close to 4 seconds long but dont forget that you have to go through this like 100 times and thats if you are familiar with this game then once you are on the water you are constantly getting annoyed with random encounters that pose no challenge to the player which take about 16 seconds to wait through the intro, click run and get back to controlling your character so you better take out a loan for repels because this game has an amount of water that is too much

  • @oKnuTo
    @oKnuTo 2 дня назад

    11:00 looking at this they could have totally done the circly around the island Alpha or Omega shaped depending on the version you are playing.
    i love gen3, they are my absolute favorite games of the series . (they are not the objectively best games that goes the BW2 IMO)
    there is one design flaw of these games, i like the idea of having lots of water. But it shouldn't have been the final stretch of the game. if you keep the general layout of the map the same, having the finale part of the game be route 119 and 120+ adjacent city and have the water routes be the Midgame would helped a lot. keep the dive spots as backtrack options. and if thats to hard to achieve just make Ever Grande City an actuall city with areas around the city.

  • @RPBiohazard
    @RPBiohazard 4 дня назад +2

    True, too much water. Let team magma do their thing

  • @jeziahfrancis2658
    @jeziahfrancis2658 4 дня назад +4

    no, no it does not.

  • @GappyV
    @GappyV 4 дня назад +6

    WATER you doing 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

  • @oniondesu9633
    @oniondesu9633 4 дня назад +1

    people talk about how much thematic sense the water routes make, and i just, dont care? they arent fun to play at all

  • @NightKev
    @NightKev 4 дня назад +2

    So the problem was ultimately a bad review summary, because the actual review had reasonable points. Still a fumble by IGN, just not the one everyone thought it was.
    Well, that's ignoring the rest of the review which this video doesn't cover and which I'm not going to read just for a random youtube comment.

  • @melismati
    @melismati 4 дня назад +3

    4:02 I don't think this is a good metric, because part of how water is balanced as a type offensively is that it resists itself. If you ran the same analysis for Fire, Psychic, Dark, or Electric, I think you would find similar numbers.

    • @ackoladeTV
      @ackoladeTV  4 дня назад +1

      great point - followed a similar train of thought where i wanted to see how this measured up to other types but eventually cut it because i was unsure what the reception would be to deeper metric dives - i'll take a look and see how the data bears out because i think you may be right haha

    • @melismati
      @melismati 4 дня назад

      @@ackoladeTV it would be quite a strong point in favor of the thesis if it turned out not to be!

  • @wj11jam78
    @wj11jam78 2 дня назад

    I just realised that the very next pokemon games after ORAS removed HMs. Maybe this review made an impact?

  • @brendantw
    @brendantw 4 дня назад

    Other regions just don't have *enough* water. Hoenn is perfection in liquid form.

  • @powergolemz
    @powergolemz 3 дня назад

    Its real life geography its like when people say galar is a straight line thats what the actual places look like

  • @Maricodone
    @Maricodone 4 дня назад

    GF also referenced it in the photo minigame in USUM 🙂

  • @forfuchsake2254
    @forfuchsake2254 4 дня назад

    It wasn't Pokémon's biggest controversy but IGN's

  • @christianlabrador2826
    @christianlabrador2826 4 дня назад

    Ackolade sponsored by IGN confirmed :v No but really, with Mega Latios/Latias, you don't even really have to travel all that much except for the first time you traverse each route before the Elite Four. Which is also a way the remakes significantly improved travel around the map in the post-game, so it really wasn't worth highlighting "too much water" on a review of the game imo.

  • @fisch37
    @fisch37 4 дня назад

    I rate this video... 7.8/10 too much water

  • @schmiddy8433
    @schmiddy8433 4 дня назад

    IGN was 1000% right and hoenn is my favorite region by far. I rate it a 9/10 despite its flaws.

  • @AuraTale
    @AuraTale 4 дня назад

    Apparentlt, Gen 10, too much water. 😔

  • @pokepress
    @pokepress 2 дня назад

    By any chance, did the same person review the Wind Waker remake?

  • @GumballandShadowfan-Noncsi
    @GumballandShadowfan-Noncsi 4 дня назад

    8:18 Sonic background music spotted

  • @JumpinJew
    @JumpinJew 3 дня назад

    I will not allow for this Hoenn Slander

  • @HellishHopper
    @HellishHopper 4 дня назад

    Should have just been 7.8 - Too little battle frontier

  • @ouchc9564
    @ouchc9564 4 дня назад +1

    hoen slander. you're just simping for the ign writer. i will hear none of it. we will expand the sea with or without your support.

  • @Bric_13
    @Bric_13 4 дня назад +3

    first
    edit: i didn’t realize the routes changed that much, and the amount of trainers w water pokemon seems wild

    • @LRXC1
      @LRXC1 4 дня назад +2

      First comment on first

    • @Bric_13
      @Bric_13 4 дня назад

      @ first comment on the first first comment

  • @srimightbeshady
    @srimightbeshady 4 дня назад

    Where did you get your data for this analysis?

    • @ackoladeTV
      @ackoladeTV  4 дня назад

      pulled from kinglerchamp’s nuzlocke calculator which has all trainer data - link to it is in the discord!

  • @clinto32
    @clinto32 4 дня назад

    Ty professor ackolade

  • @patriots971
    @patriots971 4 дня назад

    Great video! 7.8/10 too many tabs.

  • @golderzoa
    @golderzoa 4 дня назад

    I think hoenn it's 50% land 50% water don't let ign or those propaganda posts on twitter/reddit fool you.

  • @ddp9381
    @ddp9381 4 дня назад

    great video! always thought that was review was over hated, especially by people who didn’t even read it lol

  • @erikmclennan3934
    @erikmclennan3934 4 дня назад +1

    Good video

  • @AmeraFaour-u9p
    @AmeraFaour-u9p 4 дня назад

    Oras nead more grass types 3.5

  • @machewkaH1
    @machewkaH1 4 дня назад +1

    Water

  • @Dabuddah
    @Dabuddah 4 дня назад

    I hope she sees this bro xD

  • @MisterSpeedStacking
    @MisterSpeedStacking 4 дня назад

    bro can't say a full sentence without an edit cut

  • @SnareGG
    @SnareGG 4 дня назад

    ah yes, more team magma propaganda

  • @ZoofyZoof
    @ZoofyZoof 4 дня назад

    "I don't trust anyone who isn't using fly"
    I don't use Fly. Why? Because I don't really like flying types and I genuinely have no problems with traveling on foot to where I need to go. My team just suffers if I were to force a flying type on there for the sake of convenience.

  • @2kiris
    @2kiris День назад +1

    Why use fly in Ωrαs when you're required to get Lati@s that you can soar on?