There is a lot of talk of Zain falling to the pressure. And "If Zain was at 100%he'd clap ez". Pressure is part of tournaments. Imagine the pressure Mango was feeling? 10 summit's in a row he's lost, biggest prize pool, amazing losers run, playing an incredibly hard match up. Both players had their pressure, Mango showed up. Mango Deserves the dub.
I don’t think anyone is saying otherwise. Mango was the better player on that day. People are just expressing disappointment that zain wasn’t playing his best and it showed.
This was the epitome of a falco player in a fox’s clothing. No upsmashes, occasional bad lasers, crazy down airs even. Tons of mixups though and reads on movement
Cody makes very good points about optimal play but it seems like he doesn't understand that solid, unpredictable pressure directly causes mistakes and unsound decision making from the opponent.
That's been the misunderstanding of any fighting game community, ( I lost because I messed up not because your good ) at this level of competition they are both prepared mango was just better 👌
TRUE THO metagame gets you to the top, but to beat the top you have to play your own game 👌. What is "optimal" doesn't work in a game that takes insane amounts of execution, and when the "best option" is the most predictable one, it can become quite possibly the worst option.
I feel like mentality and mind set played a big part of this set. I think mang0 was seeing it as his set too win, and zain saw it as his set to lose. They sound similar but one places a lot more pressure on you to perform well.
Zain was missing his okie dokes for sure.. but Mango was still crushing him in the neutral, and he back air/ shine spike/ledgehogged him to get a bit of his kills, which circumvents a lot of zains reversals. Even though both players could have played better, this was still a fantastic set with a lot of amazing matchup content.
@@ghiidra__ also every other top player that has analyzed this set has a very different perspective than cody, so does he know more than every other top player or is he a little salty mango switched to fox and performed better than he ever has
@@mxrdyj damn you came back to write another reply? I’ve only watched druggedfox’s analysis of the set other than Cody’s since I don’t need to watch this shit more than 3 times and he pointed out zain’s punish game was way off too. If you’ve watched zain before this should be obvious - he’s punished mango much more consistently in sets he played better in. Nobody’s saying mango didn’t earn it.
When you consider LTC, Big House, and now Summit it becomes really apparent that zain had a grand finals problem. Dude cannot keep the spaghetti in his pocket when it counts.
Cant watch this anymore, it’s just “zain messed up, zain messed up😢” you’re just coping that you lose to him and not giving mango his credit for winning with Fox which is something you can’t do
lol seems super salty about Mango beating Zain. I just watched Ginger's breakdown of the first set and Ginger comments on how Zain was playing quite off, but was praising Mango's gameplay a lot more. He essentially said Mango was playing 8 to 10 out of 10 while Zain was playing like a 3. lol Cody seems super pissed about this set
0:22 Reminds me of Mang0's anecdote of how Dr. PeePee was fucking him up in a friendly or something one time. At some point, Mang0 said something like "Oh man, I'm playing so bad," to which PeePee replied "Do you think it's because I'm making you play that way," or something.
This was such great coverage. I love seeing this set through the eyes of a master. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Would love seeing more break-downs like this.
Watched the whole thing live all day. Zain played like Zain all the way up to this. All credit to Mango for playing insanely well at moments and keeping the pressure piled on. However, Zain was visibly flubbing in many moments that he normally would not and I would say 9 out of 10 times he wins this set. I think the combined circumstances of the prize pot, the tournament being in person which means mango chants heard coming from downstairs, and all the pressure that comes from being #1 got to Zain. Unfortunate, but hopefully he takes this and comes back better for it. Also, 2nd place is a huge accomplishment and he should still be proud. Everyone still knows how great of a player Zain is.
While what youre saying isnt wrong, It was very biased analysis from ibdw. He would be watching the set and be like yea mang0 drilled here and missed the L cancel shine all nonchalantly and 2 seconds later when zain missed a chain grab, be like, "OMG a missed chaingrab!!! What a gift from God". But not acknowledge that the missed L cancel Shine could have lead to some other shit that may have meant zains death or not even have allowed zain to be in the position to get the grab.
@Morph Ball im starting to agree, fox as a character has an immence amount of options, to limit it to a flowchart is super disengenuous to the character.
iBDW what do you think about Mang0 beating Zain twice on FD without ledgedashing? Personally I think it is brilliant. Ledgedashing takes unnecssary risks and is toxic masculinity. Just my 2 cents haha, anyways huge fan XD.
mangos mixups and unpredictable fox lasers in neutral were so good they made zain play worse before the set even started, i would know because mango has never beaten me and i clearly know better than ibdw
Honesty I saw a number of Slippi sets of top players including Zain and Mango where both players played much cleaner but the hype and pressure changes everything.
check his twitch vod for... about 48 hours ago? It might be uploadaed to youtube. I don't know how many hours it was, for sure. I'm guessing a few at least.
You can tell so easily that Cody is protecting his ego by looking for both players mistakes so he can say they played bad against each other but not him. In reality the unpredictability of both of their movement in this set was actually remarkable.
He said on stream that he played bad at summit, and even that zain played bad vs him, this is just how cody analyses things, he points out the mistakes, no matter the set or players
No, I think lots of people could tell zain was playing off this tournament, particularly in this grand finals. His edgeguard % in the second set was well under 50%, which is incredibly rare to see from zain in this MU. A ton of his chaingrabs only led to like 15-20% as well, where normally his grabs average nearly 100%, frequently leading to kills. Maybe hes discrediting mango a bit, but come on.
Nah dude, they played sloppy, mango less so because HES BEEN DOIN IT FOR LIKE 15 YEARS in huge moments. People forget that zains little twerp marth is a result of the documentary, he’s a doc kid. You can’t beat experience, that’s one that zain can never have over mango until mango quits for like.. 10 years lol. It’s bad gameplay, but the reason IBDW loses to zain is cuz he doesn’t intimidate zain enough, mangos an absolute monster and it shows in his play.
In the fd games and all of set 2 for the most part, but also the flexibility he has with up air in always looking to shark, start combos for damn age and just to kill really helped mango as well👀
ok im glad im not crazy. This def was a fun set to watch, but I feel like people calling it "the greatest gf of all time" was a bit of a bias towards mango playing really well and ignoring zain not playing to his normal standard. As much as I hope that mango can keep this up, I honestly think zain might become what armada was for mango before he retired
this is kind of where like "optimal gameplay" mindset doesn't understand how mango plays. Playing unpredictably and mixed up kinda makes your opponent's flowchart more difficult
The jab thing to catch the DJ to ledge is usually an unreactable 50/50 mixup cus you can dj then drift to ledge or dj sideb, if marth tries to react to sideb u just grab ledge (i know this is true as a falco main, not sure if it doesn't work with fox cus slower side b)
That ledge situation in game is, Zain's 2nd SD seemed to be bad decision making but also just bad circumstance. It was after going out and hitting Mang0, pretty sure he could have double jumped and wavelanded back on stage instead, but thats where the bad decision making comes. Imo analysis like this is mostly just for content. Big bets Cody and everyone else analyzes this set HARD offstream without distraction of us plebs
The two players whose pain I felt the most at this tourney were Zain and you. I was close to tears watching you get knocked out. Zain, too, I knew he was freaked out and not going to play as well in grand finals. :(
I’m glad someone mentioned Zain not playing well, be it nerves or Mango applying pressure or whatever. Mango played incredibly well but this was not the Zain we’re used to
iBDW's face when Mang0 said Fox beats Marth on FD after the set was so goddamn funny.
xD
There is a lot of talk of Zain falling to the pressure. And "If Zain was at 100%he'd clap ez". Pressure is part of tournaments. Imagine the pressure Mango was feeling? 10 summit's in a row he's lost, biggest prize pool, amazing losers run, playing an incredibly hard match up. Both players had their pressure, Mango showed up. Mango Deserves the dub.
I don’t think anyone is saying otherwise. Mango was the better player on that day. People are just expressing disappointment that zain wasn’t playing his best and it showed.
I mean, Zain usually beats mang0.
yeah i havent seen anyone say he didnt deserve it idk what youre on about
@@jondoe2772 not when the stakes are highest lol
@@jimbo7388 Like Genesis?
bruh imagine schmoovin so hard in a video game that the uncontested #1 for the last 1.5 years starts shaking before you even play him
It’s that mango effect. They been telling us he got that aroma bout him since 2013
Hahaha "what place did you get?" love your content ibdsm
I think you mean….**W**
@@soren1803 yo did you see he made the front page of Full Hop magazine
@@rekt_yer_nan_darding_5788 an inspiration to us all. A visionary really.
@@rekt_yer_nan_darding_5788 sucks he didn't go for the red shirt, I liked it as well
“What place did you get” 😂😂😂😂
Iconic
This was the epitome of a falco player in a fox’s clothing. No upsmashes, occasional bad lasers, crazy down airs even. Tons of mixups though and reads on movement
Except Mang0 has played Fox for years...
the shield drop Dairs too lmao
@@Benny9117 he was a Falco first I believe
@@Benny9117 but every Falco player is a Mang0 fan. He embodies Falco more than he does fox.
Lol the end. But love the breakdown cody
Holy shit, an iBDW video thats longer than 5 minutes
yo editor could you add the chat into the video if he's talking back and forth with people in chat like he's talking to mango here
Cody makes very good points about optimal play but it seems like he doesn't understand that solid, unpredictable pressure directly causes mistakes and unsound decision making from the opponent.
That's been the misunderstanding of any fighting game community, ( I lost because I messed up not because your good ) at this level of competition they are both prepared mango was just better 👌
TRUE THO metagame gets you to the top, but to beat the top you have to play your own game 👌. What is "optimal" doesn't work in a game that takes insane amounts of execution, and when the "best option" is the most predictable one, it can become quite possibly the worst option.
He's literally a top 10 player wgat the fuck do you mean that he doesnt understand pressure
what compells scrubs who know nothing about the game to die on the worst hills possible
I feel like mentality and mind set played a big part of this set. I think mang0 was seeing it as his set too win, and zain saw it as his set to lose. They sound similar but one places a lot more pressure on you to perform well.
Im sure a LOT of these mistakes was mental. You could tell there was a lot of pressure on this set and its so cool to see it back in LAN melee
Ibdw’s dog sounding like pikmin being pulled or thrown 17:19
Zain was missing his okie dokes for sure.. but Mango was still crushing him in the neutral, and he back air/ shine spike/ledgehogged him to get a bit of his kills, which circumvents a lot of zains reversals.
Even though both players could have played better, this was still a fantastic set with a lot of amazing matchup content.
idk zain ledge walk offs..
Cody not understanding that unpredictable pressure causes mistakes is pretty ironic
you dont understand a single thing that about this game that top player ibdw doesn't
@@ghiidra__ dang I didn’t know ibdw’s girlfriend would be making a guest appearance
@@ghiidra__ also every other top player that has analyzed this set has a very different perspective than cody, so does he know more than every other top player or is he a little salty mango switched to fox and performed better than he ever has
@@mxrdyj damn you came back to write another reply? I’ve only watched druggedfox’s analysis of the set other than Cody’s since I don’t need to watch this shit more than 3 times and he pointed out zain’s punish game was way off too. If you’ve watched zain before this should be obvious - he’s punished mango much more consistently in sets he played better in. Nobody’s saying mango didn’t earn it.
@@mxrdyj I am not interested in girlfriends, I rather stay single forever ✅
When you consider LTC, Big House, and now Summit it becomes really apparent that zain had a grand finals problem. Dude cannot keep the spaghetti in his pocket when it counts.
He has a lot less grand finals experience than the old guard. I'm sure he'll gain composure over time
@@deep_cuts2019 I remember mango saying the same exact thing one stream
I been waiting for this one
Same
Ibwfto
Cant watch this anymore, it’s just “zain messed up, zain messed up😢” you’re just coping that you lose to him and not giving mango his credit for winning with Fox which is something you can’t do
lol seems super salty about Mango beating Zain. I just watched Ginger's breakdown of the first set and Ginger comments on how Zain was playing quite off, but was praising Mango's gameplay a lot more. He essentially said Mango was playing 8 to 10 out of 10 while Zain was playing like a 3. lol Cody seems super pissed about this set
Yeah my favorite part of the set was when Mang0 switched to sheik because fox marth is too hard... oh wait
This is how Cody commentates everything. Including himself lol.
@Morph Ball not sure why any Falco mains would care. Everyone has known this for years lol
0:22
Reminds me of Mang0's anecdote of how Dr. PeePee was fucking him up in a friendly or something one time. At some point, Mang0 said something like "Oh man, I'm playing so bad," to which PeePee replied "Do you think it's because I'm making you play that way," or something.
This was such great coverage. I love seeing this set through the eyes of a master. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Would love seeing more break-downs like this.
Watched the whole thing live all day. Zain played like Zain all the way up to this. All credit to Mango for playing insanely well at moments and keeping the pressure piled on. However, Zain was visibly flubbing in many moments that he normally would not and I would say 9 out of 10 times he wins this set. I think the combined circumstances of the prize pot, the tournament being in person which means mango chants heard coming from downstairs, and all the pressure that comes from being #1 got to Zain. Unfortunate, but hopefully he takes this and comes back better for it. Also, 2nd place is a huge accomplishment and he should still be proud. Everyone still knows how great of a player Zain is.
While what youre saying isnt wrong, It was very biased analysis from ibdw. He would be watching the set and be like yea mang0 drilled here and missed the L cancel shine all nonchalantly and 2 seconds later when zain missed a chain grab, be like, "OMG a missed chaingrab!!! What a gift from God". But not acknowledge that the missed L cancel Shine could have lead to some other shit that may have meant zains death or not even have allowed zain to be in the position to get the grab.
@Morph Ball im starting to agree, fox as a character has an immence amount of options, to limit it to a flowchart is super disengenuous to the character.
@@bobbykite8705 probably not crapping on mango too hard because he knows hes in chat
2nd place is not good, stop with your euphemisms. Zain was disappointed!
27:54 in chillin we trust
"Look where you are?!?!....What a dumb fucking move" absolutely destroyed me lmao
iBDW what do you think about Mang0 beating Zain twice on FD without ledgedashing? Personally I think it is brilliant. Ledgedashing takes unnecssary risks and is toxic masculinity. Just my 2 cents haha, anyways huge fan XD.
lol
"is toxic masculinity" you what now
My galint is totally larger than yours
lmaoooo underrated comment
@@ln8496 yeah but my ecb got more girth 😤
Zain played off. Mango played on. Mango deservedly won Summit 11.
zain didn't play off if he was able to take mang0 to last game last stock
good effort to both players, mang0 just edged zain out
ok zainfan
Mangos just better dude.. mango fucked up a ton.
@@falcolombardi4353 i'm a fan of both
@@199iq6 wasnt directed to you it was directed to the OP
mangos mixups and unpredictable fox lasers in neutral were so good they made zain play worse before the set even started, i would know because mango has never beaten me and i clearly know better than ibdw
Honesty I saw a number of Slippi sets of top players including Zain and Mango where both players played much cleaner but the hype and pressure changes everything.
0:42 Where can I watch Mew2King's 10 Hour Manifesto Analysis?
check his twitch vod for... about 48 hours ago? It might be uploadaed to youtube. I don't know how many hours it was, for sure. I'm guessing a few at least.
Holy fuck that sounds insane. Play that during ur sleep and ull become fox irl
Zains not playing bad, Mang0s making Zain play bad. There’s a difference.
Cody said he was warming up zain and he was playing bad
@@chullupa cope zain isn’t that good give mango his credit
@@thiccboi7777 Just pointing out something Cody said. Not stating if it is or isn't the case.
@@chullupa Even in that case, Zain was playing worse as he warmed up the more he was watching Mango rip through losers lol.
@@jimtroeltsch5998 that would suggest zain did it to himself, not mango doing it to him
0:44 “10 hour manifesto analysis”
Shoutouts to hax
You can tell so easily that Cody is protecting his ego by looking for both players mistakes so he can say they played bad against each other but not him. In reality the unpredictability of both of their movement in this set was actually remarkable.
He said on stream that he played bad at summit, and even that zain played bad vs him, this is just how cody analyses things, he points out the mistakes, no matter the set or players
No, I think lots of people could tell zain was playing off this tournament, particularly in this grand finals. His edgeguard % in the second set was well under 50%, which is incredibly rare to see from zain in this MU. A ton of his chaingrabs only led to like 15-20% as well, where normally his grabs average nearly 100%, frequently leading to kills.
Maybe hes discrediting mango a bit, but come on.
Nah dude, they played sloppy, mango less so because HES BEEN DOIN IT FOR LIKE 15 YEARS in huge moments. People forget that zains little twerp marth is a result of the documentary, he’s a doc kid. You can’t beat experience, that’s one that zain can never have over mango until mango quits for like.. 10 years lol. It’s bad gameplay, but the reason IBDW loses to zain is cuz he doesn’t intimidate zain enough, mangos an absolute monster and it shows in his play.
Bro i had no real opinion on ibdw before but the dude comes across as insufferable
Haha, funny but true
Back air was 100 percent the mvp move for Mango's fox
In the fd games and all of set 2 for the most part, but also the flexibility he has with up air in always looking to shark, start combos for damn age and just to kill really helped mango as well👀
i remember leffen talking about drift back shorthop nair and dair in the match a couple years ago not specifically to beat nair though 13:25
ok im glad im not crazy. This def was a fun set to watch, but I feel like people calling it "the greatest gf of all time" was a bit of a bias towards mango playing really well and ignoring zain not playing to his normal standard. As much as I hope that mango can keep this up, I honestly think zain might become what armada was for mango before he retired
Cody might have a Copium addiction
watching this as a zain fan was extremely painfull
Imagine not bein a mango fan
this is kind of where like "optimal gameplay" mindset doesn't understand how mango plays. Playing unpredictably and mixed up kinda makes your opponent's flowchart more difficult
Loved the video :) keep up the good work and I know youre gonna be #1
If you no di marth up throw at high % near ledge, can't they hit you with a down air?
Usually with no DI you can di/sdi in and land on stage
The jab thing to catch the DJ to ledge is usually an unreactable 50/50 mixup cus you can dj then drift to ledge or dj sideb, if marth tries to react to sideb u just grab ledge (i know this is true as a falco main, not sure if it doesn't work with fox cus slower side b)
Great video
Why is the logo blurred?
32:05 is one of the best things ive ever seen. its just..too meta
Thanks 4 content
That ledge situation in game is, Zain's 2nd SD seemed to be bad decision making but also just bad circumstance. It was after going out and hitting Mang0, pretty sure he could have double jumped and wavelanded back on stage instead, but thats where the bad decision making comes. Imo analysis like this is mostly just for content. Big bets Cody and everyone else analyzes this set HARD offstream without distraction of us plebs
Lol you warmed Zain up? Two wayyyyy different foxes
The two players whose pain I felt the most at this tourney were Zain and you. I was close to tears watching you get knocked out. Zain, too, I knew he was freaked out and not going to play as well in grand finals. :(
Call me crazy.... but I think mang0 does those YOLO crappy lasers as a swanky empty hop
the laser betrays that you aren't going to do a late aerial out of the shorthop defeating the purpose of the empty hop
I’m glad someone mentioned Zain not playing well, be it nerves or Mango applying pressure or whatever. Mango played incredibly well but this was not the Zain we’re used to
it looked kinda off that zain got like 0 fsmash tippers? HMMMMMMM
It’s cuz he’s good
fox beats marth
takeaway fox wins on fd
a gift from God. but mango is God.
ibdw pissed that he couldnt play zain when hes weak lmaooo (or mango for that matter)