New Pilot Practices Touch and Goes in Gusty Crosswinds | 2nd Lesson in a Piper Cherokee 140
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2023
- REAL flight training lesson with a student pilot on a gusty crosswind day. Today, we're practicing landings and working to make a stable final approach to a landing. In this video, Hagen is learning to land a Piper Cherokee 140. As you can see, crosswind landings make it much more difficult, but it's an important skill for every pilot to learn.
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Hagen’s a baller. The fact that he’s cool with posting his mistakes as a student pilot, is that takes balls lol. Thank ya’ll for the content, helps a lot.
Yes it does! He’s a great guy!
Just passed PPL checkride June 6th. Your videos were super helpful for me in studying and preparation. Thank you!
Congratulations Scottie! You’re welcome! Go have some fun now!
congrats scottie!!
One additional thing about checking controls is to ensure yours or your passengers kneeboard or PED's do not interfere. Thanks for the videos!
This is a total fact! They get in the way all the time!
Yep... I often take off my kneeboard in a Cherokee type on landing.
My knees where in the way for the control check on my Discovery flight…
@@PghGameFix if you have to take it off on landing, is it safe to have it on during any other stage of flight?
would be bad if during cruise, or take off it blocked you from making a full deflection to recover from an unusual attitude 😞
I wish my CFI was this vocal. Really informative stuff, I’m glad RUclips exists.
That’s good to know! Sometimes I think I talk too much, but I don’t know how anyone can learn without being taught
Remember to look for traffic to your left before turning base and prior to final. Someone on the wrong frequency or no radio could be on RT base or straight in for final. Brutal conditions for a new student.
Yes, that is a fact
Love your videos! Thanks for helping the next generation of pilots around the world.
Thank you! I really appreciate that!
Thanks' for the video. Help me remember the basics of flying.
You’re welcome!
The Best Student/CFI video ever. Thank You!
Thanks Tom! That means a lot! I’ve got quite a few more coming!
Amazing. What a fabulous instructor.
Thanks!
Another excellent video Josh. Keep up the great work. Safe skies my friend 🇺🇸🛩️
Thanks Kevin!
Amazing Video! Thank You!
Thanks Tom!
excellent instruction and very attentive student, well done, a very enjoyable vid, thanks
Thanks Dave!
great instruction and the student did well . thanks for showing us. best wishes from NZ
Thanks Dave!
He was fast first approach because he was only on 2 notches of flaps, the third notch didn't fully seat. Love the vids--
I think you’re right! Thank you so much!
Awesome video thanks.
Thanks Dwight!
As someone that has 3.5 hours, its crazy how good some of these CFI's are lol
Nice work. WAAAAAYYY better than me on my second lesson.
Awesome video
Thank you!
I'm loving this series!
Thank you! I’ve got another one I need to edit!
@@FreePilotTraining awesome! Can’t wait to see it! When you have the time of course. I’d also love to meet you if your ventures ever bring you near KMTN.
@@justplanefred I’ll write that down!
You’re a great CFI!
Thank you! I don’t feel like it sometimes when I see my mistakes in the video, but I think everyone can learn from them
Hello, currently I am getting ready for my csel check ride. I find your content to be the best explained and illustrated in YT. Just a suggestion, you should do a Foreflight series.
Btw I used to fly out of Kork. I used to a PA140 and 180 from there. Keep ‘em coming
Thank you so much! My friend Seth Lake makes a lot of Foreflight content. I’d definitely like to make more. It’s an awesome tool. I love KORK. Great airport
love the video man! you should make a video on how to perfect ground reference maneuvers. (turns around a point and s turns.) Thanks!
I definitely need to do that. I’m doing power on stalls in the next couple weeks
@@FreePilotTraining great i’m staying tuned for that! i’ve been having a lot of trouble with ground maneuvers as well.
Good stuff Maynard!
Lol thanks!
@@FreePilotTraining no joke - thank you. You helped me be the pilot I am and will be!
I was prepping for my commercial checkride at ORK and wanted to get some visuals for my power off 180s but the winds were 12-14 gusting 22-24 variable 260-330. Started out on 35 but winds started favoring 23 so me and another pilot in the pattern decided to switch runways. The most scared I’ve ever been in an airplane was short final on 23. I went from all white to all red on the papi really fast. Assume I caught a strong downdraft or wind shear. Not sure how far I was above those trees but I was full power and still descending. I eventually started climbing and headed back to Mena. I didn’t pull and kept my airspeed up which I was proud of looking back. A moment I’ll never forget.
That’s scary. I’ve had similar situations which is why I made that newer video on the energy management takeoff. Having energy available can save your life as it seemed to have done for you in this situation
Really good video!
Thank you Ivan!
Thank you Ivan!
Watching from Brazil ❤
Awesome! Thank you!
The Cherokee 140 is not an underpowered aircraft.
It was designed as a training aircraft and a basic tourer. It was powered fit for purpose.
17:33 "Don't ever give up the controls... my controls"
Thought that was funny...
Lol, yeah, I thought about that afterwards. The things you say in real life 😆
Another great vid. I've never flown the 140... but in all the other variants that I have flown (180, Warrior, Archer, arrow) using carb heat is NOT recommended. Is it needed on the 140? Also... as a new pilot... he should be using an actual check list, and not let him get used to doing it from memory. FYI... when I got back into flying, after a long time away... it took me a while to get my crosswind landings back.
Thanks! We use the checklist for everything but the “before landing” checklist and the “after takeoff” checklist. I don’t want students fumbling for a checklist when they need to be focused on the landing or takeoff. I don’t think that’s safe. There are only a couple steps
When you turn left base for RWY 35 there at KORK there is a water tower that is a great reference point I use for my students that will keep you clear if KLITs Class C. Great video, I learned a lot watch you teach. Only thing we do differently is I don’t teach my students to use carb heat in the 140. But good stuff!!
O yeah, I’ve noticed that before. Thanks! Yeah, I’m torn on the carb heat. I need to do more research. The POH isn’t the greatest help
@@FreePilotTraining you are right about the POH. It’s a lot less helpful than say a POH for a 172. I got a great book on the Cherokee from ASA that was a little more helpful.
@@shockerthreeone really? What’s that called?
As far as the use of carb heat, always perform as the manufacturer states (PoH) ...MEII for 34 years...flying for 46 years...have seen many incidents and accidents over those years so as to not vary from the experts who designed the engine
Don’t forget to check your rudders when you check your flight controls. I usually turn around and visually confirm that the rudders are moving in the right direction. I realize that this only works with planes that have a back window…
Great point. I checked mine, but I didn’t make sure he checked his.
Just a thought, when you were saying "nose down" to build airspeed he instinctively pushed down on the yoke. Perhaps saying "nose level" is more effective and refraining from pushing down so close to the ground.
That’s a good idea. Thanks!
What are you using for Cameras? Audio hookup so it's recorded?
Thanks! I’m using a GoPro 7,9, and 11. I originally bought this cable www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/11806?gclid=Cj0KCQiAorKfBhC0ARIsAHDzsltAJp_vB3bTzYrE8OOpHFbu47XoVnRdiSyTV3Xn_2ds_0nmIL113YkaAgGLEALw_wcB to plug in directly to my GoPros, but GoPros really like to overheat in the cockpit. A few months ago, I bought this audio recording device www.amazon.com/Digital-Voice-Recorder-Lectures-Meetings/dp/B084KQMH6V/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=1ZQG28ZIVD4AE&keywords=audio+recording+device&qid=1676466337&sprefix=audio+record%2Caps%2C211&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=AQ1GO4ZRYD98S&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzUzJLOVlXRkRLUlJCJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODI5OTUzMlVUSE81WkJDMzEyUCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzQxMzQyMUZFMU5CQlhGSjk5MSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX3Bob25lX3NlYXJjaF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl and the main cord from the GoPro audio adapter plugs right into it and I haven’t had a single issue since. If a go pro overheats, I can use the rest of my cameras and I haven’t lost my audio rest of my cameras and I haven’t lost my audio
That was like drinking through a firehose of info! I suggest keeping hand on the throttle until downwind. Im a rookie new pilot with only 70 hours though! Don't listen to me :)
Yeah, it makes it worse cuz I cut out all the blank space where we’re not talking to shorten the video, but yeah, there’s lots to absorb!
On the Cherokee’s, I was taught to turn off the electric fuel pump no lower than pattern altitude then cross check fuel pressure a few seconds after turning it off. I noticed you teach to turn it off immediately and i didn’t hear a cross check. What are some thoughts on this?
That’s a good technique. I probably should be teaching that. Thanks for the comment
In a month or two I'm flying to the US to do my PPL and Instruments. Where is the most fun place to stay and do it?
There’s a lot of great places. You might like Texas though. Lots of space to fly in down there
Just curious why you use carb heat on approach? I thought that was more of a Cessna thing due to the location of the air intake.
To be honest, I’m torn on using carb heat on a Cherokee because of that silly warning. I still try to use it on approaches, but I don’t really know any science behind why or why not. I need to do more research
@@FreePilotTraining I don't use it on my Cherokee 180 because of it bypassing the air filter. The POH doesn't call for it either. Cheers
@@AWaifuInVR thanks for the info! I’ll do some more digging
Hi Josh,
First, I enjoyed the video and lesson you gave your student. Second, my disclaimer of not being current or a CFI, just a rusty PPL ASEL.
I saw several things that got my attention, stall warning indicator on initial departure... more than a few times, and I did hear the admonishment on the airspeed; I never saw your student trim for airspeed once, after the third touch and go when you took the controls I saw you trim, but never heard you mention trimming to the student. A question I am wondering about is your student training for a sport license or PPL, not that it should matter regarding basic pattern work. Another question in my mind is relative to ground reference maneuvers and slow flight training as preparatory to doing pattern work. That was my experience in working toward pattern work. I understand the past two posts to be lessons one and two so my expectation is that no extensive ground reference or slow flight work yet though he received an introduction in lesson one. So based on my disclaimer I am not qualified to critique, but those are some of my observations
As always, I enjoy the channel, all the best.
Thank you for your comment! The light does come on 5-10 mph above stall in the Cherokee so you do have a safety buffer. We kinda have to climb at a steeper angle at this airfield though because of the airspace. As far as the manuevers are concerned, I do agree that they are super important. We only had a pattern day due to the weather that stuck around until the last minute. We didn’t have the weather or time to do anything else. I thought it was more valuable to get some patterns than to talk and go home. Thanks for the comment!
I like your decision to stay in the pattern, it’s a lot easier to land from the pattern obviously if weather does deteriorate, which I am guessing can happen in Arkansas like here in Florida
@@FreePilotTraining understand, a bad or limited day in the air is better than a good day at work. I understand the buffer on the stall warning light, I think the 180’s came on about 5 mph above the initial buffet. The ceiling did look a bit low with broken coverage. One benefit for your student is the perspective you bring to the teaching environment is lets get in the air and fly and work on what we are able to work on. My training experience was very structured around foundation building blocks, but training with an instructor outside that rigid structure presents learning challenges that are equally valuable in that you learn what minimums truly are and what they mean without having a “I learned about flying” moment necessarily. Looking forward to the next installment.
Everyone is saying not to use carb heat on approach. I fly a Piper Warrior and was always taught to use it on my pre landing check list. If it does no harm in using it then why not?? Better safe than sorry in my opinion. The only time I heard to be careful is landing on a dirt or grass runway so debris doesn’t get sucked up. Any thoughts?
Totally agree! I’ve been talking to a lot of experienced mechanics. We should be using the carb heat more on the Cherokees. I’ve heard that too on the grass, but I really don’t know how I feel about it
one more run-up item - you don't get the plane back to on or below ~1000 rpms
it can makes the spark plugs go foul faster (lead starts to build up on them sooner)
is there any reason you don't do it?
I’m confused. Are you telling me I should keep the RPMs higher after the runup?
@@FreePilotTraining yes, that's what I've learned from mechanics at my flight school - this is the case for C172; every time you are stopped - say after landing, run-up or basically idling on the ground - it's better to add a touch of RPMs to about 1000 in order to make the lead in the fuel not build up on the spark plugs (in addition to the ground lean if possible; and especially after you apply full mixture like when you are lined up and waiting for takeoff after all the checks are completed)
I don't know if this is how it's supposed to work for the plane you are flying here but I'm assuming this should be fairly universal for single engine piston planes as all are using spark plugs and leaded fuel, and I can see ~800 RPM in idle 😀
Feel free to get in touch with some A&P mechanic to verify those words - I'm only repeating what I was told by A&P and school owner (and I was shown spark plugs with lead build up on them to confirm it)
making calls on the second flight? legit!
He’s doing awesome
I saw at 26:43 the stall light flashed right before turning final.
Yep, that turns on 5-10 mph above stall.
I’m going my training in NLR
Awesome! Great airport
@@FreePilotTraining yes very good group of people, do you still instruct there?
for controls check I'd suggest teaching more checks :D
use your thumb on a yoke, it tells you which flaps should go up - thumb pointing to the right wing - right aileron up, thumb left, left aileron up
check elevator (forward down, back up) and rudder (left pedal left, right pedal right) for correct movement
and finally - pull full back, keep it there, and do max deflections left to right of yoke - on one of my flights I learned that if you put more stuff on your legs (i.e. larger tablet) it can actually make it impossible to make full turn to the side where you keep a tablet.. better to know something is not working about controls on the ground than in the air!
I do that too. We did that back at the chalks
@@FreePilotTraining I guess this is why you put "not an instruction video" at the very beginning 😀 awesome!
Okay, so I'm about to sign papers on a Cherokee 140 to learn in. What exactly do you mean by underpowered? It's 150 hp (or at least mine is). I chose this over a Cessna 150 to avoid having a thoroughly underpowered plane.
It’s not a big deal when it’s cold outside, but Cherokees just don’t climb quite as good as a Cessna 172. They are very close, but not quite the same. The problem is really the airfield we’re flying at. It’s so tight, you gotta climb at Vx, and older trainers like this just don’t perform the greatest. I’d own a Cherokee in a heartbeat though. They are AWESOME aircraft
@@FreePilotTraining Thanks... had me worrying for a bit. It was great seeing a video of the plane I'm about to own in a couple of weeks (I hope to have 10-ish hours in a 172 prior to that).
Cherokee 140 is a great plane to learn on and move up to similar but bigger versions. Loved the “Hershey bar” wing stall characteristics and ground effect. Easy to refuel. Things I disliked. One door ugh for older passengers (can't help). Rear passengers - motion sickness as they can't see anything and entry/exit. Downside - AD on wing spar - could be expensive but Cessna has one as well. Pretty forgiving aircraft just don't get caught low and slow turning final - stall spin.
@@robgoffroad No problem. I do think that the 172 is a slightly better trainer, but for the cost of a 172 right now, the Cherokee is a WAY better value. I’m thinking about comparing the two in a future video
Od CFI. But the flaps up only at the Vy speed is correct. Many accidents because they took off the Lift Flaps too early. Only high HP /low weight airplanes can do quick flaps off after Vr.
I don’t recommend flaps up until Vy. Not sure how you got that from the vid. For a go-around, you have to immediately take one notch out
@@FreePilotTraining Well, almost Vy or 70 knots and up. if landing with 40 like on the video, then one notch out are not flaps up. That is flaps 25 degrees.
I taught a lot decades ago on all kinds of cherokees including 300 hp Bush Planes. I know some bush pilot tricks i taught in south america in the 1970's.
I find one of the easiest and most accurate ways to fly is by the numbers. Once you learn how to set a profile, your landings and approaches will be stable. Pitch should be 4 to 500 ft./min.. Add power to air speed. Most approaches are around 500 ft./min. and when you change your flaps, you always want to maintain that same decent rate. Your air speed will change and you correct it with power. if you ever notice airlines landing, their profile, remains pretty constant from half mile out until touchdown. When we start worrying about air speed, this is why most students come in too fast and too high. Touchdown should be pretty close to rotation attitude at 5 to 10 knots above stall speed.
Great tip! Thank you
@@FreePilotTraining it took me a little while to learn this, actually after I obtained my commercial certificate. It made a lot of sense to me. Even though not every landing will be super greaser what you’re aiming for is consistency. Usually 5 to 10 kn above stall, and then your wheels touchdown absorb all the energy and the aircraft will never attempt to balloon, unless you get a serious head wind gust. Long as you flatten out and start reducing power as you rotate to takeoff attitude, you should be able to touchdown with two little squeakers and can land a low wing as well as a 172 like an F 15 with the nose up. Maybe I should invest in becoming a CFI.
@@aviatortrucker6285 do it! It’s fun
When checking my controls I have never asked my instructor to check his. I am going to add that to my flow from now on.
Is using carb heat and old Cessna carryover? I have only trained in Cherokees and have not used carb heat on landing.
Thanks for the great content!
Awesome! You’re the second person to tell me that. I need to do more research on the carb heat system on a Cherokee. The warning basically says that you can get detonation at full power with carb heat, but you still are susceptible to carb icing, so I’m torn on whether or not to use it.
Your crosswind was fairly light, which is harder for a low time student to recognize that a stronger crosswind. It seems harder first but humans, and other animals, make gross body balance movement before fine body movement. We crawl before we walk. So the drift is easier to recognize with stronger crosswind. The amount of bank into crosswind component is more. The amount of rudder for longitudinal alignment is more. He is not seeing that rudder keeps longitudinal alignment separate from what the aileron is doing. Rub tummy pat head thing.
A good way to start students is straight and level, hands in lap, and walk the rudder rapidly, dynamically, and proactively to bracket a distant target. Now have them try to make coordinated turns to hold that target. Emphasize that on short final we don't want to turn and trigger adverse yaw. We just want to yaw correctly to bracket the target and this will keep the wing level at the same time.
Show side slip alignment in strong crosswind. Show forward slip to lose altitude in calm air. Use full flaps in Cherokee as default. Yes they need to know how to use less, but not until comfortable with full flaps as default.
I know they need to learn radio calls and work heavy traffic eventually, but it is distracting early.
Thanks for the comment! Yes light crosswinds do seem harder. It didn’t help that it was gusty too. Thanks for the tips!
How come you're in North Little Rock and I don't know????
You missed me! I’m in Alaska now
9:30 That fuel pump came off way too early. You can almost touch the ground.
Yeah, probably so. I’m not beyond making mistakes. I’m glad you mentioned that
I typically enjoy your videos but do you really think this is appropriate for a students 2nd lesson
Actually, it’s a requirement before you can solo. It’s not quite as bad as the video makes it seem. I’ve taken some students in some sketchy crosswinds lol
5 days after his first flight he gets crosswind landings... thats rough for the fella!
Lol, yeah. Break him in quick!
These videos never blow hot air or cold and when the vaccum guages don't work it sux
Thanks!
You need 2 hands for mild turns on a cherokee.? LOL>> . Soloed at 17 year old with only a total of 10 hours, 1969. CFI in 1969 told me, only girls need 2 hands to do mild turns here. Get your other hand all the time ready for the levers duties, especially in all the traffic pattern.
Lol, I use 2 hands all the time. Last time I checked, I’m a boy
@@FreePilotTraining I know you are.. But. The habit looks ew. The other hand is prep all the time for the 3 engine levers, THE FLAPS and many switches and radios. Specially in go arounds, take off and landings, and emergencies, that hand is VERY BUSY and never on wheel resting or using for turning.
I used to teach also Go arounds from flare, while turning right and EFATO 4 maneuvers. Check the many bad go arounds and EFATo accidents causes on Dan Gryder Probable Cause Channel. He is advocating for AQP which includes low go arounds, RTO's and EFATO too.
He needs to step on the ball
He does
Wing low? Sounds like a slip to me. Get it how you live.
That’s basically what it is
Instructor is letting student talk too much...should never be a discussion in the cockpit..should be instruction only..the discussion should be in the classroom before the flight
I don’t really believe that. Sometimes seeing and hearing at the same time can really make things stick.
Explaining something like this in the airplane while flying is not a good idea. Crosswind landings should be explained on the ground where nothing is happening. The whole theory of crosswind landings should be understood and contol imputs played over and over in the student's head before getting into an airplane. Then, in the airplane you practice what's memorized in your head already.
Well, we did discuss it a little bit, but one of the problems when you’re learning is overcoming that first level of learning in RUAC. There’s a gap between Rote memorization and Understanding. Part of bridging the gap is hands on training where you coach the student through