I watched the video twice. This is a next level game changer. This is worth saving up for. This will level any playing field. Forget Mahlkonig. This is what you buy
Excellent video , as always. The technology and precision of this machine sets the bar so high, even five years later nothing else is close. I just ordered the E37Z-Naked version of this from WLL and can't wait to see it in action.
Hi MArc, what a fantastic review. I've eagerly waited for that one, as my hero will arrive next week; =) Thank you for your dedication to make such detailed and professional videos. You`re simply the best, without comparison!
@@vex123 I stop hi-fi at cables, regardless of source: speakers, amp, pre amp if needed/wanted, cables, not because I believe let’s say silver “sounds” better, but I’ve read it can make a difference, so I like the idea of changing cables “I’m in the mood for some copper/silver sound” 🤷🏻♂️ 😂
Francois Bergevin Hi FB, will definitely be doing more with the Hero - I’m all about the science as well! So many variables to try and control with espresso. Marc
As if temperature, grind size, pre-infusion, extraction time, channeling, and tamping weren’t enough factors for espresso makers. Bringing in variable RPM of grinder is just a mess imo.
Thanks Marc, this is indeed a remarkably efficient machine. I'm afraid I'll have to stick to my Baratza Encore. The same reason I don't drive a Ferrari but a Toyota.
That's kind of sad. I know the conversation is coffee but something needs to be done. One of the many reasons we raised our three daughters here in Costa Rica is the education system. My wife has an advanced degree in education. The whole thing cost less than 4k. Our oldest got a merit based full scholarship and has an advanced degree in Social Work. We've got universal health care and of course, some of the best coffee in the world.
Hey JA, ratios depended on coffee used. More often than not I'm a 1:2 ratio guy so 18g in 36g out. Timing is typically 20-30 from 1st drip but often runs longer when using low flow rates, pre-infusions, etc. Marc
Hey Marc! Great vid and review! Definitely a dream machine and out of reach for most of us (unless I get that big promotion or lotto hit). Stupid question: I'm wondering why Ceado went with a detent-less potentiometer for the motor speed control? I get that they want the user to have "infinite" speed variability (within the designated speed range). Since everything in making the perfect shot is about repeatability, it seems to me if they were going to make the motor speed control infinitely variable, that they would at least provide a digital tachometer to indicate speed so that the user wouldn't have to rely on coarse dial markings for a fairly accurate speed reading and repeatability while experimenting. While the power supply module panel aesthetic is neat and clean with a minimum of clutter, I'd have thought that they could have done a touch display similar to the latest e37s model with the tach readout incorporated, especially at this premium price point. Just my $0.02.
Hi Kevin, not a stupid question and thanks for sharing your thoughts! So the speed control is marked with RPM and I think the no detents deal is exactly what you think - for continuously variable adjustment. Stepped grind size adjustments are a no-no in high-end espresso grinders so guessing they don't want it on the speed control either. I do like the idea of a digital tach! This grinder is used in commercial applications where there might be some resistance to touchscreens although lots of commercial semi-automatic machines have them. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage TYVM, Marc. I appreciate the prompt response. As an Italian-American, and a Ceado e37s owner, I loved this grinder as soon as I saw it, but the variable pot with just markings, and no display immediately caught my attention. I designed and built a DC motor speed control for my mandatory Senior Electrical Engineering Project in my youth, in this case, for a cassette tape recorder that could record/playback at half-speed. My solution was (very) loosely akin to Ceado's and I used a network with op amps and a power transistor controlled by a pot to adjust the rpm range (no display). It was very hard to get the adjustment range correct and then you had to tweek the pot to get the playback speed (i.e., pitch) correct. I marked the spot, but I took a small hit from the tenured PhD & dept chair who grilled me during my presentation of my circuit design and asked why I didn't use a PLL (phase locked loop) if speed was that critical. I replied that his dept. didn't teach us about PLL's anywhere in the curriculum but utilized all that I had learned in my studies. I was right, but he still dinged me and gave me a B, haha!
@@jz2450 I did a particle analysis with the grinder at the 5 setting using the Lighttells CM-200. Average of 5 tests came back with a median particle size of 919 microns. Hope that helps! Marc
Man $5,500 makes sense after seeing what goes into each one but dang is that expensive for your average consumer. I’m here rocking a $20 black and decker drip brewer and I use a Baratza encore grinder. 😂
I bought this machine from you a few years ago. When I dose 20 grams unless I feed very slowly it will bind and lock down the grinder. This is quite suprising given the size and weight of the machine. What are your thoughts? Thanks.
Screw- less burr surfaces do look cool. Using all that thought through bits could deliver more pleasure than drinking espresso) Uh no, machinery is just a mean to reach result)
Love your reviews, especially when you do science experiments like varying grind speed and comparing shots! Speaking of science, do you know the particle-size distributions for grinders other than the Hero? Knowing is necessary to determine how much better the Hero and Naked are than other grinders out there. I can't wait to get my Synchronika with flow control (ordered from you two days ago; haven't purchased a grinder yet) so I can do some of my own experiments :).
Hi Keith, Thanks for the comments on our reviews and for your patronage. I'm sure you will love your Synchronika! Sorry I do not have particle size distribution for other grinders. It's something not many manufacturers do. Or they do them and do not publish. Baratza has in the past published some. Found these on Home Barista. They are more than 10 years old: www.home-barista.com/grinders/baratza-grinders-particle-distribution-at-various-settings-t16011.html For using flow control on your Synchronika here's a good article based on my use of flow control. It includes 5 basic flow profiles I created and featured in past videos and more info on flow to get you started. Flow control truly is amazing and relatively easy to use once you know the basics. www.wholelattelove.com/blogs/articles/intro-to-calculating-flow-rate-on-e61-group-machines Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi Marc, those links contain so much good info; just what I was looking for: THANKS!!! On a similar note, UPS says my new Synchronika will be delivered this afternoon; woo hoo! Just three days between order and receipt; did you amp those delivery guys/gals up with double espressos to get it here so fast? (lol) I'm as excited to unbox that as you and Todd were to unbox your first Hero :).
@@keithbutler1312 You're welcome! As I often say in my videos "If you've got questions, I've got answers!" I really do enjoy helping people out. Just a heads up... If you need more help make an original comment on any video. I eventually answer all of those but have a tough time keeping up with responses deeper in threads. Think I personaly answered >4,000 comments last year and have to squeeze in making more videos around that. We do our best to ship as quickly as possible so I'm happy to hear you're impressed. Also don't hurt yourself moving that box. The Synchronika is a heavy beast! We'd love to get a review of your experience - maybe even share some pics of your espresso bar.Thanks for your patronage and enjoy your new machine. Cheers! Marc
I feel as though the fan should be controlled automatically by a thermo sensor of some sort. Or at least have the option at this high end category. I assume the fan is to prevent beans being affected instead of over heating the equipment?
Absolutely love this. Pretty much no need for something so opulent and who cares? Push technology as far as you can go is fantastic. I’ll take 2, one for my house and one for my Outdoor Coffee Log Cabin Sauna Pool.
Leigh K Hi, thanks for the comment. Absolutely what Ceado set out to do - build the best grinder period. Everything overbuilt. Pushed grinding tech to the limits. A show piece for the brand. As I recall it’s 90+ man hours to build the Hero. Some of this tech will trickle down to their other products. Cool stuff! Marc
Hello Sir. I have I couple more questions about this. What is the difference between the Hero andd naked? Also universal grinder, can you do Turkish coffee?
Slower is best. Less heat keeps the oils from coming out of the beans and introducing a bitter taste as the beans are crushed. A really nice machine you have there.
I like the DLC Burrs. Like the IMS showerhead for e61s, I hope Ceado will sell a more advanced burr for the E37s in the future. But for now, I will experiment with the E37s. Thanks for sharing the Hero. Great machine but a little more than I can afford.
Hi mark, after watching I’d like to make a couple of comments. For the swinging the worm thread adjuster out of the way, would a spring loaded pin lock mechanism been an option? No chance of not engaging the teeth properly. Secondly, would a fixed speed option (say at 600rpm) be a cheaper, space friendly alternative?
Hi Chris, Thanks for great comments! I have some face to face time coming up with Ceado at SCA in Boston. I do think you will see tech from the Hero trickle down to some of there other less costly grinders. I like something for easier worm gear engagement after macro size changes - as it is now you do have to line up the threads before swinging back in. Not a huge deal but I see where you're going. I'll definitely mention that in Boston! Marc
Thanks Marc, That would be terrific! On the speed thing, it would be an interesting study to see if there was a single speed that did provide most of the benefits for a cheaper, smaller but still ultra high spec model- sort of like Monilith’s or even a Helor stance Motor. Could be a PhD for someone. Become a doctor of Coffee! Chris
I'm curious at to whether the speed is actually controlled by a speed sensor and a feedback loop, or if the knob sets the frequency of a variable frequency drive. Or if they simply adjust the voltage fed to a DC motor or the like. Further, at this price, and given the need to engage and disengage the worm gear to/from the spur gear for grind size, why not use a stepper motor to position the grind size adjustment, and a rotary encoder to verify the position, and give an electronic readout and several presets, selected on a touch control panel/display so the user can program grind size presets and operating RPM. Control system and CNC machine nerd here. But seriously, at this price, none of this would be unreasonable. The fully manual, hands-on user interface, and wood accents remind me a lot of some high end audiophile gear, where one begins to question the actual science involved, and wonders if it's more about the feel of things and the perceptions of the user. Still, I really appreciate a lot of what's there. Especially the work at making zero retention truly work. Every time we make an espresso at home or at work, we're grinding a single dose. And with the inexpensive systems I use, there's a lot of "carry over". A true single dose, low retention system would be a real benefit.
I'm a mechanical engineer and I'm a huge coffee snob (as I'm sure most of us watching this are) and watching this video made my head explode. Ah the toys we can sink our money into....
@@Wholelattelovepage I think its an amazing piece of equipment. I've worked aerospace, medical and consumer products and this design looks like it takes cues from skills that would make all of those industries proud. The burrs themselves are a work of art. I thought the difference you were seeing in extraction time and flavor profile from speed alone was pretty incredible, really makes me wonder what is going on with bean chemistry during the grinding process.
Not an engineer but a mechanical tech for 26 yrs with obviously " field engineer knowledge lol " ( and yes coffee snob ) So as far as the rpm's , what came to mind for me was a VFD changing the hertz which you know changes the speed/rpm of a motor , used on many motor applications in my field , I was thinking of experimenting with one , I mean , that is basically what they're doing but with an actuator of sorts I believe ..... I always come across them so what are your thoughts ???
Hey Mark. When will you do another Q&A on brew ratio. Have an interesting question to ask you which I have not seen from anyone. It is regarding extraction taste. I have got my machines dialed in pretty good. I have eliminated clumping and have minimal static using the Lyn Weber Blind Shaker yet amazingly my outbound grind size on the grinder remains zero retention every time. My extraction works by the first drip on the cup to a 1:2 ratio instead of the moment water hits the portafilter. Here's my question. Can the first taste of my extraction be bitter and my third taste on the same extraction be sweet and smooth? This is what I am getting from my extraction. What are your thoughts on this? Beans used is Coffee MIO Espresso and Ceado is dialed at 2.5 grind size.
Hi T72R, Flavors in shot will change as the extraction progresses. If tasting a completed shot from a cup not unusual for the top of the shot to be more bitter as the end of the extraction sits on top. I typically stir a shot gently before tasting. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc! That cleared things up for me - I had a feeling that was the case but looking at their specification chart on the website it is not very descriptive.
Why would you not repeat the test several times to ensure the 1050rpm shot was not affected by some other factor? Seems very unlikely the shot time difference came down to rpm alone... Kind of an odd conclusion to an otherwise interesting video
Hi BA, Here's current pricing for the most recent E37Z model: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e37z-naked-coffee-grinder And the one featured in video with adjustable burr speed: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e37z-hero-coffee-grinder Marc
Hi F S-J, Thanks for the comment. I hear you and commenting on flavor is incredibly subjective. Just because I prefer flavor of one over the other doesn't mean the next taster will. Marc
a thing of beauty.......everything looks so silky smooth and precise,.......shiny.....probably superior to my rancillio jacky......ha!......... they should be manufacturing road bikes.....
Side-by-side between Niche Zero and this Ceado. I own the Niche and I’m confident it won’t even be 3x better but for 10x the price. An EK43S is a better deal and probably pulls similar shots to the Hero. Great engineering feat to have adjustable RPM but let’s admit it’s more or less a gimmick. Anyhow, hope more major companies steer towards zero-retention single-dosing grinders for home users.
Hi, Thanks for the comment. In coffee equipment one definitely starts running into diminishing returns in cost vs. potential cup quality. I do not believe variable RPM is a gimmick. It makes a difference. Perhaps not for average users, but for enthusiasts who get super serious about espresso. Compared to the Niche, build quality, components, etc are at a completely different level in the Hero. Kinda like going from stock cars to Formula 1. The Hero is an engineering feat. I suspect the tech will move down in more affordable forms to other Ceado grinders. Marc
That's a Venti Americano at Starbucks EVERY day for 4.029 years!!! That means it will pay for itself in 4.029 years... because math... If it lasted the rest of my life and I die at 82 years old, it will have saved me $46,413.50!!! And if I invest that money with compound interest and an average return of 12% buying this machine will make me $77,754.66!
Yousg27 just get an EK43S. One of the best single-dosing grinders available and recently updated design to be smaller. Not a single third-wave cafe doesn’t own one and it’s for good reason
@@Wholelattelovepage haha sorry I wasn't truly offended.. Just one of those phrases I find annoying. I'm actually sure it's valid in this sense but it's been so overused in instances where they're clearly just looking for a selling point of some sort :)
I were thinking too if there's temp sensor....but you know....Italian made sports cars with high price tag and design quirks sell just OK. So manual fan isn't design flaw - it's feature, people can turn on fan and spend another 20min. to make a cup of espresso otherwise they'd be sipping superauto brew)
The anomaly of the mid speed shot begged a second round with a changed order on the espresso machine.. kinda made for a disappointing ambiguity in an otherwise excellent review.
Makes me wonder who would purchase a device like this. Will it just be someone who can afford it to show off? Are there super rich coffee obsessed folks out there? It's quite cool, but my guess is that you'd be able to dial-in your favorite setting and then probably never touch the knobs again. Also, unless you're an evil James Bond villain living in a secret lair, 75% of the coffee you consume will probably not be from this grinder/espresso machine setup. Does this mean you are going to be disappointed every time you have coffee from somewhere else? Kind of like owning a private jet and then being forced to fly Jetblue all the time :-)
Hi AMZ123, I guess in some respects it's like why buy a Lamborghini? Plenty of cars cost a lot less and still get you down the road. It's a show piece for sure and not for everyone. Personally it's rare for me to not be disappointed when I get an espresso somewhere else. There are some excellent shops with people that care but it's rare. Marc
Chupacabra this grinder not for everyone. If making coffee with a keurig maybe consider a bean to cup automatic machine. Just as convenient, far better coffee quality, no plastic waste and far lower cost per cup making it more economical long term. Marc
I watched the video twice. This is a next level game changer. This is worth saving up for. This will level any playing field. Forget Mahlkonig. This is what you buy
Excellent video , as always. The technology and precision of this machine sets the bar so high, even five years later nothing else is close. I just ordered the E37Z-Naked version of this from WLL and can't wait to see it in action.
Hi dj, Thanks for the comment and your patronage!
Hi MArc, what a fantastic review.
I've eagerly waited for that one, as my hero will arrive next week; =)
Thank you for your dedication to make such detailed and professional videos.
You`re simply the best, without comparison!
Hi Bob, Thanks for the comment. Bet you're looking forward to your Hero!
Marc
I wonder if caffeine molecules taste changes if you whisper friendly words to them before grinding?
LOL, My houseplants grow faster when I play classic rock - disco has the opposite affect!
@@vex123 I stop hi-fi at cables, regardless of source: speakers, amp, pre amp if needed/wanted, cables, not because I believe let’s say silver “sounds” better, but I’ve read it can make a difference, so I like the idea of changing cables “I’m in the mood for some copper/silver sound” 🤷🏻♂️ 😂
Given the odd results with 1050 rpm could you make an episode with at least 5 shots at 600, 105, 1500 to make an average? Science is cool.
Francois Bergevin Hi FB, will definitely be doing more with the Hero - I’m all about the science as well! So many variables to try and control with espresso.
Marc
This!!
Thank you. I have been waiting for this video since last time you unbox it.
As if temperature, grind size, pre-infusion, extraction time, channeling, and tamping weren’t enough factors for espresso makers. Bringing in variable RPM of grinder is just a mess imo.
Don't forget Pressure Profiling !
@@adamrant4138 also don't forget flow rate
Don't forget Temperature Profiling!
This machine gives new meaning to the saying, "Life's a grind."
Are you doing a giveaway? 🤣
Thanks Marc, this is indeed a remarkably efficient machine. I'm afraid I'll have to stick to my Baratza Encore. The same reason I don't drive a Ferrari but a Toyota.
Hi Daniel, Thanks for the comment! I'm still paying for 3 college educations so I only get to use the Hero at work.
Marc
That's kind of sad. I know the conversation is coffee but something needs to be done. One of the many reasons we raised our three daughters here in Costa Rica is the education system. My wife has an advanced degree in education. The whole thing cost less than 4k. Our oldest got a merit based full scholarship and has an advanced degree in Social Work. We've got universal health care and of course, some of the best coffee in the world.
Excellent & thorough video as usual! Much appreciated as this is the closest I’ll ever come to this machine :)
What a beautiful grinder! Mark, 18g in 45g out… is that your go to ratio?? And is 24 seconds your target for time?
Hey JA, ratios depended on coffee used. More often than not I'm a 1:2 ratio guy so 18g in 36g out. Timing is typically 20-30 from 1st drip but often runs longer when using low flow rates, pre-infusions, etc.
Marc
Hey Marc! Great vid and review! Definitely a dream machine and out of reach for most of us (unless I get that big promotion or lotto hit). Stupid question: I'm wondering why Ceado went with a detent-less potentiometer for the motor speed control? I get that they want the user to have "infinite" speed variability (within the designated speed range). Since everything in making the perfect shot is about repeatability, it seems to me if they were going to make the motor speed control infinitely variable, that they would at least provide a digital tachometer to indicate speed so that the user wouldn't have to rely on coarse dial markings for a fairly accurate speed reading and repeatability while experimenting. While the power supply module panel aesthetic is neat and clean with a minimum of clutter, I'd have thought that they could have done a touch display similar to the latest e37s model with the tach readout incorporated, especially at this premium price point. Just my $0.02.
Hi Kevin, not a stupid question and thanks for sharing your thoughts! So the speed control is marked with RPM and I think the no detents deal is exactly what you think - for continuously variable adjustment. Stepped grind size adjustments are a no-no in high-end espresso grinders so guessing they don't want it on the speed control either. I do like the idea of a digital tach! This grinder is used in commercial applications where there might be some resistance to touchscreens although lots of commercial semi-automatic machines have them.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage TYVM, Marc. I appreciate the prompt response. As an Italian-American, and a Ceado e37s owner, I loved this grinder as soon as I saw it, but the variable pot with just markings, and no display immediately caught my attention. I designed and built a DC motor speed control for my mandatory Senior Electrical Engineering Project in my youth, in this case, for a cassette tape recorder that could record/playback at half-speed. My solution was (very) loosely akin to Ceado's and I used a network with op amps and a power transistor controlled by a pot to adjust the rpm range (no display). It was very hard to get the adjustment range correct and then you had to tweek the pot to get the playback speed (i.e., pitch) correct. I marked the spot, but I took a small hit from the tenured PhD & dept chair who grilled me during my presentation of my circuit design and asked why I didn't use a PLL (phase locked loop) if speed was that critical. I replied that his dept. didn't teach us about PLL's anywhere in the curriculum but utilized all that I had learned in my studies. I was right, but he still dinged me and gave me a B, haha!
Great video. Love that all size of coffe is clearly displayed.
Glad you liked it!
@@Wholelattelovepage sorry I forgot to ask, what is the coarsest ( highest microns) it could grind?
@@jz2450 I did a particle analysis with the grinder at the 5 setting using the Lighttells CM-200. Average of 5 tests came back with a median particle size of 919 microns. Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks so much for the response. That is super helpful. It is exactly the grinder I have been looking for!
@@jz2450 You're welcome!
Marc
Man $5,500 makes sense after seeing what goes into each one but dang is that expensive for your average consumer. I’m here rocking a $20 black and decker drip brewer and I use a Baratza encore grinder. 😂
I have malvern's at work so I understand the measurements... Love that you are using my 700 for the test :)
I bought this machine from you a few years ago. When I dose 20 grams unless I feed very slowly it will bind and lock down the grinder. This is quite suprising given the size and weight of the machine. What are your thoughts? Thanks.
Screw- less burr surfaces do look cool. Using all that thought through bits could deliver more pleasure than drinking espresso)
Uh no, machinery is just a mean to reach result)
Love your reviews, especially when you do science experiments like varying grind speed and comparing shots! Speaking of science, do you know the particle-size distributions for grinders other than the Hero? Knowing is necessary to determine how much better the Hero and Naked are than other grinders out there. I can't wait to get my Synchronika with flow control (ordered from you two days ago; haven't purchased a grinder yet) so I can do some of my own experiments :).
Hi Keith, Thanks for the comments on our reviews and for your patronage. I'm sure you will love your Synchronika! Sorry I do not have particle size distribution for other grinders. It's something not many manufacturers do. Or they do them and do not publish. Baratza has in the past published some. Found these on Home Barista. They are more than 10 years old: www.home-barista.com/grinders/baratza-grinders-particle-distribution-at-various-settings-t16011.html
For using flow control on your Synchronika here's a good article based on my use of flow control. It includes 5 basic flow profiles I created and featured in past videos and more info on flow to get you started. Flow control truly is amazing and relatively easy to use once you know the basics. www.wholelattelove.com/blogs/articles/intro-to-calculating-flow-rate-on-e61-group-machines
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi Marc, those links contain so much good info; just what I was looking for: THANKS!!! On a similar note, UPS says my new Synchronika will be delivered this afternoon; woo hoo! Just three days between order and receipt; did you amp those delivery guys/gals up with double espressos to get it here so fast? (lol) I'm as excited to unbox that as you and Todd were to unbox your first Hero :).
@@keithbutler1312 You're welcome! As I often say in my videos "If you've got questions, I've got answers!" I really do enjoy helping people out. Just a heads up... If you need more help make an original comment on any video. I eventually answer all of those but have a tough time keeping up with responses deeper in threads. Think I personaly answered >4,000 comments last year and have to squeeze in making more videos around that. We do our best to ship as quickly as possible so I'm happy to hear you're impressed. Also don't hurt yourself moving that box. The Synchronika is a heavy beast! We'd love to get a review of your experience - maybe even share some pics of your espresso bar.Thanks for your patronage and enjoy your new machine. Cheers!
Marc
I feel as though the fan should be controlled automatically by a thermo sensor of some sort. Or at least have the option at this high end category. I assume the fan is to prevent beans being affected instead of over heating the equipment?
Yes, fan keeps things cool in high volume use!
With this price i'll go on with my mortar & pestle. 😂🤣😂
Hi omg, Hear you. This is a precision instrument!
Marc
Absolutely love this. Pretty much no need for something so opulent and who cares? Push technology as far as you can go is fantastic. I’ll take 2, one for my house and one for my Outdoor Coffee Log Cabin Sauna Pool.
Leigh K Hi, thanks for the comment. Absolutely what Ceado set out to do - build the best grinder period. Everything overbuilt. Pushed grinding tech to the limits. A show piece for the brand. As I recall it’s 90+ man hours to build the Hero. Some of this tech will trickle down to their other products. Cool stuff!
Marc
Hello Sir. I have I couple more questions about this. What is the difference between the Hero andd naked? Also universal grinder, can you do Turkish coffee?
Slower is best.
Less heat keeps the oils from coming out of the beans and introducing a bitter taste as the beans are crushed.
A really nice machine you have there.
Hi KT, Thanks for the comment.
I like the DLC Burrs. Like the IMS showerhead for e61s, I hope Ceado will sell a more advanced burr for the E37s in the future. But for now, I will experiment with the E37s. Thanks for sharing the Hero. Great machine but a little more than I can afford.
Hi 72, Thanks for the comment. Maybe titanium?
Marc
Hi mark, after watching I’d like to make a couple of comments.
For the swinging the worm thread adjuster out of the way, would a spring loaded pin lock mechanism been an option? No chance of not engaging the teeth properly.
Secondly, would a fixed speed option (say at 600rpm) be a cheaper, space friendly alternative?
Hi Chris, Thanks for great comments! I have some face to face time coming up with Ceado at SCA in Boston. I do think you will see tech from the Hero trickle down to some of there other less costly grinders. I like something for easier worm gear engagement after macro size changes - as it is now you do have to line up the threads before swinging back in. Not a huge deal but I see where you're going. I'll definitely mention that in Boston!
Marc
Thanks Marc,
That would be terrific!
On the speed thing, it would be an interesting study to see if there was a single speed that did provide most of the benefits for a cheaper, smaller but still ultra high spec model- sort of like Monilith’s or even a Helor stance Motor.
Could be a PhD for someone. Become a doctor of Coffee!
Chris
I'm curious at to whether the speed is actually controlled by a speed sensor and a feedback loop, or if the knob sets the frequency of a variable frequency drive. Or if they simply adjust the voltage fed to a DC motor or the like.
Further, at this price, and given the need to engage and disengage the worm gear to/from the spur gear for grind size, why not use a stepper motor to position the grind size adjustment, and a rotary encoder to verify the position, and give an electronic readout and several presets, selected on a touch control panel/display so the user can program grind size presets and operating RPM.
Control system and CNC machine nerd here.
But seriously, at this price, none of this would be unreasonable. The fully manual, hands-on user interface, and wood accents remind me a lot of some high end audiophile gear, where one begins to question the actual science involved, and wonders if it's more about the feel of things and the perceptions of the user.
Still, I really appreciate a lot of what's there. Especially the work at making zero retention truly work. Every time we make an espresso at home or at work, we're grinding a single dose. And with the inexpensive systems I use, there's a lot of "carry over". A true single dose, low retention system would be a real benefit.
I'm a mechanical engineer and I'm a huge coffee snob (as I'm sure most of us watching this are) and watching this video made my head explode. Ah the toys we can sink our money into....
Hi Brandon, Thanks for the comment! As a mechanical engineer what do you think of the Hero?
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage
I think its an amazing piece of equipment. I've worked aerospace, medical and consumer products and this design looks like it takes cues from skills that would make all of those industries proud. The burrs themselves are a work of art.
I thought the difference you were seeing in extraction time and flavor profile from speed alone was pretty incredible, really makes me wonder what is going on with bean chemistry during the grinding process.
Brandon B the Ferrari of Espresso grinding
@@brandonb417 Well as an engineer you will know that a sample size of 1 has basically no predictive value. But I agree, it's a work of art.
Not an engineer but a mechanical tech for 26 yrs with obviously " field engineer knowledge lol " ( and yes coffee snob ) So as far as the rpm's , what came to mind for me was a VFD changing the hertz which you know changes the speed/rpm of a motor , used on many motor applications in my field , I was thinking of experimenting with one , I mean , that is basically what they're doing but with an actuator of sorts I believe ..... I always come across them so what are your thoughts ???
Hey Mark. When will you do another Q&A on brew ratio. Have an interesting question to ask you which I have not seen from anyone. It is regarding extraction taste. I have got my machines dialed in pretty good. I have eliminated clumping and have minimal static using the Lyn Weber Blind Shaker yet amazingly my outbound grind size on the grinder remains zero retention every time. My extraction works by the first drip on the cup to a 1:2 ratio instead of the moment water hits the portafilter. Here's my question. Can the first taste of my extraction be bitter and my third taste on the same extraction be sweet and smooth? This is what I am getting from my extraction. What are your thoughts on this? Beans used is Coffee MIO Espresso and Ceado is dialed at 2.5 grind size.
Hi T72R, Flavors in shot will change as the extraction progresses. If tasting a completed shot from a cup not unusual for the top of the shot to be more bitter as the end of the extraction sits on top. I typically stir a shot gently before tasting.
Marc
This grinder is crazy
Yes it is!
Marc
great review, this grinder has been in my sights
ColemanWorld Thanks for the comment! It’s a freakishly cool instrument!
Marc
What is the difference between the Ceado E37 Z-Hero vs Ceado E37 Z-Naked?
Hi Frank, The Hero is adjustable RPM while the Naked is essentially the same except RPM is fixed at 960 (50hz)/1150 (60hz)
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc! That cleared things up for me - I had a feeling that was the case but looking at their specification chart on the website it is not very descriptive.
It's been almost 4 years, will they make a newer version?
There's this one with backspin burrs: coffee.ceado.com/en/products/26-on-demand/2-e37z-barista
Great radio and commercial voice!
Hi l, thanks for the comment!
Marc
I’m in love with this grinder. It’s too expensive for me unfortunately. Very sad.
Hi Steve, This one is like a high-end lab instrument!
Marc
Really? 5.5k for something that can be done for 20 bucks? Wonder why it's too expensive...
Forget what I said a few days ago about the Faustino grinder... I want this grinder instead!!!
Hi FF, I do remember what you said - I'll try and forget now. This one is just a few more $$!
Marc
Why would you not repeat the test several times to ensure the 1050rpm shot was not affected by some other factor? Seems very unlikely the shot time difference came down to rpm alone... Kind of an odd conclusion to an otherwise interesting video
Hi 2M, Thanks for the comment - it was a very unofficial test.
@@Wholelattelovepage A precision grinder deserves a precision review! Haha
Still a great video, what a machine!
Is this manufactured by gopro?
I'm drooling.
Id feel like a rockstar with those rocker switches
Those are toggle switches, not rocker switches. But I get your point! :)
Hey guys. I wondering about is it interchangeable with EK43?
hello, how long to grinde 18g at the speed 1500 and 600? tks
Can you do a conparison to the Mahlkönig k30 Peak
Just wondering, what would you guys buy, this or the Ceado e37sd?
Hi John, Thanks for the question. Depends on budget I guess. If you want the absolute best the Z-Hero is it!
Marc
How much does the E37Z cost?
Hi BA, Here's current pricing for the most recent E37Z model: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e37z-naked-coffee-grinder
And the one featured in video with adjustable burr speed: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e37z-hero-coffee-grinder
Marc
Turn on the captions. Look at the funny spellings of the grinder’s name. Near the end the captions say that it’s the “giotto ether t7z hero”.
Hi James, Those automatic captions get strange!
Marc
What's your home grinder ?
Hi RJ, My go to is the Ceado E37S: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e37-s-electronic-coffee-grinder-in-black
Do you know if they sell that dosing funnel separately?
Hi Chris, We are working with Ceado to have the dosing funnel available individually.
Marc
If this is not intended for home users and cafe who is it for?
Hi 2, It can be used by home or cafe
Alright,
Thanks
I wish more was said on how the taste of this grinder compares to other high end grinders, say the ek43...
Hi F S-J, Thanks for the comment. I hear you and commenting on flavor is incredibly subjective. Just because I prefer flavor of one over the other doesn't mean the next taster will.
Marc
a thing of beauty.......everything looks so silky smooth and precise,.......shiny.....probably superior to my rancillio jacky......ha!......... they should be manufacturing road bikes.....
Hi Milo, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
I passed out from sticker shock mid-way through the video.
you must love your job!
Hi Uzair. I do! I get to use a huge variety of coffee equipment - every new piece adds a little to my knowledge.
Marc
So the good thing this is also a mortar launcher so you get the dual use aspect.
Lol!
Side-by-side between Niche Zero and this Ceado. I own the Niche and I’m confident it won’t even be 3x better but for 10x the price. An EK43S is a better deal and probably pulls similar shots to the Hero. Great engineering feat to have adjustable RPM but let’s admit it’s more or less a gimmick.
Anyhow, hope more major companies steer towards zero-retention single-dosing grinders for home users.
Hi, Thanks for the comment. In coffee equipment one definitely starts running into diminishing returns in cost vs. potential cup quality. I do not believe variable RPM is a gimmick. It makes a difference. Perhaps not for average users, but for enthusiasts who get super serious about espresso. Compared to the Niche, build quality, components, etc are at a completely different level in the Hero. Kinda like going from stock cars to Formula 1. The Hero is an engineering feat. I suspect the tech will move down in more affordable forms to other Ceado grinders.
Marc
Is this the only machine with dlc coating? It’s a beautiful machine but way out of budget thanks
I’m new to all of this.can you please tell me is this the only machine on the market with dlc???? Thanks 🙏
Would have been nice if it was able to take more of load coffee beans
Well single dosing is kind of the point with this one.
Marc
That's a Venti Americano at Starbucks EVERY day for 4.029 years!!! That means it will pay for itself in 4.029 years... because math... If it lasted the rest of my life and I die at 82 years old, it will have saved me $46,413.50!!! And if I invest that money with compound interest and an average return of 12% buying this machine will make me $77,754.66!
Love the math!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage, just doing my part.
Beautiful, although I have the money, I can not convince myself to buy it. But I will have to admit it's a beautiful piece of engineering
Yousg27 just get an EK43S. One of the best single-dosing grinders available and recently updated design to be smaller. Not a single third-wave cafe doesn’t own one and it’s for good reason
Love the grinder but really hate the categorisation of military grade anything. What even does that mean?
Hey dan, Sorry didn't mean to offend with "military grade". It's a reference to a high precision quality level.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage haha sorry I wasn't truly offended.. Just one of those phrases I find annoying. I'm actually sure it's valid in this sense but it's been so overused in instances where they're clearly just looking for a selling point of some sort :)
Let's add a mysterious, oversized, black box with almost nothing in it.
Customers just love to pay 2,000 USD extra for that on/off switch.
Hi JM, Well, a bit more than an on/off switch.
65 hundred and there is no temp sensor to auto kick on the fan..........
I were thinking too if there's temp sensor....but you know....Italian made sports cars with high price tag and design quirks sell just OK. So manual fan isn't design flaw - it's feature, people can turn on fan and spend another 20min. to make a cup of espresso otherwise they'd be sipping superauto brew)
Omg, i must have
Check out Niche Zero grinder
Thanks for the comment. I have. The Hero is at a whole different level.
But there other single dose grinders that are better! Not all DLC is equal either. Monolith and L. Weber EG1 are epic! and half the cost.
Hi Finder, Thanks for adding to the conversation.
Marc
The anomaly of the mid speed shot begged a second round with a changed order on the espresso machine.. kinda made for a disappointing ambiguity in an otherwise excellent review.
Hi C, Thanks for the comment.
Marc
that's like a Bugatti of grinders..
I would choose it over any Bugatti
@@lars6314 I guess that because gas in a Bugatti is "abit" more expensive than coffee beans for the grinder :-)
This is like a patek grand complication level
I've ordered this grinder after watching this same video one too many times😭
how is it?
@@toesuc this grinder is way better than my eureka and niche. Really fluffy and clump free. Very well built.
would rather get a niche .. alot less bells and whistles but zero retention
Niche has plastic gearing and a chinese electric motor, hardly a comparison.
OMG 5500$ expensive More than my espresso machine I only hope are one
It's a precision instrument!
Makes me wonder who would purchase a device like this. Will it just be someone who can afford it to show off? Are there super rich coffee obsessed folks out there?
It's quite cool, but my guess is that you'd be able to dial-in your favorite setting and then probably never touch the knobs again. Also, unless you're an evil James Bond villain living in a secret lair, 75% of the coffee you consume will probably not be from this grinder/espresso machine setup. Does this mean you are going to be disappointed every time you have coffee from somewhere else?
Kind of like owning a private jet and then being forced to fly Jetblue all the time :-)
Hi AMZ123, I guess in some respects it's like why buy a Lamborghini? Plenty of cars cost a lot less and still get you down the road. It's a show piece for sure and not for everyone. Personally it's rare for me to not be disappointed when I get an espresso somewhere else. There are some excellent shops with people that care but it's rare.
Marc
If you own a descent espresso machine, grinder, and try just a little bit you will ALMOST ALWAYS be disappointed in any coffee drink you didn’t make!
.....Interesting. Now, if you'll excuse me......I am off to my $150 Keurig.
Chupacabra this grinder not for everyone. If making coffee with a keurig maybe consider a bean to cup automatic machine. Just as convenient, far better coffee quality, no plastic waste and far lower cost per cup making it more economical long term.
Marc
Nice, only $5,500 for a grinder!
Yes, not just any old grinder but a lab quality instrument!
why 1050 was bad
Not sure
I smell snake oil.....
Alas I am not a billionaire
Hi MM, Me neither. I only get to use at work.
Marc
Do NOT like the wood. It is not technological but rather historic and vieux jeu which has no place for an advanced grinder.
Hi JA, Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Marc
It's over designed.
Hi JH, Yes, like a Formula 1 car!
this G overpriced