Hi Erin Many thanks for the review, it's an honest and very accurate description of the speakers. I just wanted to comment and explain our philosophy regarding the directivity/dispersion of the speaker. What I have found is that many speakers (far too many IMO) have too much sound power in the 2 to 8kHz region which tends to lead to a bright sound. People should understand that this bright effect happens even if the on axis frequency response is flat. This becomes fatiguing, especially so when listening loud. I note your comments on how easy it is to inadvertently listen too loud with these speakers :) . You are not the first person to mention this. The potential issue with wider directivity is that it pumps more high frequency sound power into the room. The sound power response will be flatter, and hence the in room response will be flatter. Its a fine line to where this becomes too flat and the speaker starts to sound bright and fatiguing. So its a compromise you have to choose. Our philosophy is to make the sound power and DI as smooth as possible, and pay great attention to the slope of the In Room Response to avoid the speaker being bright and harsh. At the end of the day it's a judgement call, there is no definitive right or wrong answer. Some will prefer the wider and more diffuse soundstage of wider dispersion speakers (at the potential risk of too bright and fatiguing sound), and some will prefer the more precise placement, less diffuse soundstage of a narrower directivity speaker. At the various HiFi shows we exhibit at we get frequent responses from the public saying they could listen all day to the speakers. They are non fatiguing but with all the clarity and detail you could ever wish for............along with questions of "where is the sub-woofer"? :) Thanks again Alan March March Audio.
Understood and thank you for replying. It’s really cool to have the manufacturer provide this kind of “behind the scenes” info. I know some manufacturers (KEF and a couple Andrew Jones designs as well as one of the Ascend Acoustics) will purposely tilt down the on-axis response in some of their designs to "make up" for the wide and flat directivity in the HF so that the in-room response won’t sound bright or treble-heavy. Always trade-offs.
this is one of those examples where the truth hurts.. I am with you 100% on this one.. too bright between 2 to 8 kHz may work for some people who like lower SPL's, but definitely not optimal for louder listening.. and I am also tired of that mindset that subs are always needed. it's always puzzling how knowledge and ignorance can actually intersect due to a lack of sense.😉
@@FOH3663 the point, in my mind, is that the manufacturers should try to make the equipment as accurately as possible, but, if people decide they want to hear something non-optimal, they can EQ and add subs to their heart's content.. if they're going to manufacture equipment that's application specific, then as a manufacturer they should "advertise" the equipment in that vein.. hip-hop speakers or heavy metal speakers or whatever. Market to the strength of the product.
Not related to the review, but the domain march dot audio actually is something you might register. Probably a bit pricier than cut rate domains though.
I own a pair of these in a dedicated listening room. I could easily buy and add a subwoofer, space and price would not be an issue. I just don't feel it's necessary. I love these speakers.
The linearity on these is insane! Better than most digital active monitors. They look like the real deal small/medium room endgame speaker. I want a pair. And a 300wpc amp to drive them.
I suspect an amp based on the Purifi 1ET400A could be just the ticket for these. Kits based on the Eval1 and Eval2 (and Hypex PSU) are available at very reasonable prices too (I use an Eval1 based amp, and it's just difficult to describe how good it is). I you really want to indulge yourself, the 1ET7040SA looks even better.
You have become my favorite audio reviewer on all of RUclips due to your understanding and testing of how products really sound. Thank you Erin for your no-nonsense approach that is second to none.
Thanks for all you do man! I’ve learned so much from your channel and I would not buy or recommend a speaker that you have not reviewed. One suggestion: include more pictures and descriptions of the speaker up front including what the divers are, what the low end alignment is (port, sealed, PR), what the crossover points are and what type of crossover and how is the cabinet constructed/finished. I think a lot of your viewers are speaker builders and we nerd out and this stuff big time! Thanks again Erin!
@@ErinsAudioCorner Erin, whatever details I'm curious about that are not in your video, I usually try the manufacturer for additional information. Sometimes I don't get all the details, but usually enough to satisfy the basic technical curiousities, but for particular info about cabinet construction, crossover design, materials and parts, manufacturers are usually only sometimes accomodating, and only to a certain degree. March Audio has a fairly reasonable amount of info about this product on their website. Viewers can't expect to be told how to design the speakers you are reviewing.😂
The drivers alone at *preferential* pricing is slightly under half the entire speaker retail price. How they add a nice cabinet and crossover then sell it at this price is... unusual. If they only sell direct I guess shipping and import fees will add a chunk but still..
@@Audio_Simon Labour is very expensive in Aus, but you don't seem to appreciate that a worldwide distribution and support network accounts for at least 50% of the end price. Part of it is offset by lower manufacturer marketing costs (since much of it is on the distributors) but in this case I don't think March Audio spend too much on marketing. Btw crossover parts cost is usually little more than peanuts.
As a KH150 owner I was thinking the same. These must be about the best linearity I've seen without DSP and that distortion is very low indeed. They're around double the price though it seems, taking need for decent amplification into account.
For that Price in Europe you Can get kh 150's + kh 750, you Can get to 20Hz, no need for an amp, you get built in Ma-1 correction. Directivity is a tad better but the kh system beats them in every category, with a few added bonuses including full spectrum phase linearity, weight, and ability to put them close to a wall. Best passive bookshelves i've ever seen measured though, impressive performance Indeed.
@@dananskidolf From personal experience, the DIYclassD Hypex Nilai500-based stereo amplifier kit is exceptional at around $1350 USD and has plenty of power to drive nearly any loudspeakers with the added benefit of being pretty much impedance-load agnostic. It's a completely solderless kit with snap-together wiring harnesses provided and will only take you half a day to assemble using just basic hand tools. IMO, that's not a ton of money, but IME it offers exceptional performance matching that of much more expensive amplifiers. I haven't done definitive blind testing yet, but from my personal subjective impressions, so far I have preferred the Hypex Nilai500 over the Purifi Eigentakt, and I'm a bonified Purifi fanboi otherwise, haha. FYI, I've also had the Neumann KH 120a active studio monitors since 2013, and I'm still impressed with their performance, especially considering their diminutive size. The KH 150 obviously improve on the KH 120 in every metric, and although I'd love to own them as well, I've already got a few other DIY loudspeakers that perform similarly.
I don't know that you could claim that the Neumann combo is better . More full range yes but I doubt the KH150 drivers are nearly as good ,they simply are not .@@matieuche
I’ve had the opportunity to review those, but I have turned it down. Something just doesn’t sit right with me reviewing a speaker of his after his passing.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Because you know he will be standing right behind you with laser eyes pointed right at the back of your head. But if you turn around he will disappear, only the reappear the millisecond you turn your back again. Bagby takes no prisoners. Having said that, I desperately want to build a pair of his Spirit Winds.
Aww man, that “DONT THINK TWICE HOO!” In Billy Jean comes from so far left, it actually startled me the first time I heard it on a properly set up 2.1. That whole album sounds incredible. I know this is beside the point of the video, but had to mention.
I'm in the market for bookshelf speakers and love these, but 83.0dB is an issue. I'm about to pull the trigger on the Revel M126Be, but looking for another speaker for comparison. Any recommendations?
TLDR = 10:53 👌👌👌👍🤘 So, the only other 2 comparable speakers near this price, in your Top 5 of all-time list, are Wharfdale Linton 85($1500) and Revel F226BE($7700).
There are a lot of small high quality speaker manufacturers in Australia. VAF, Krix, Richter Audio, Osborn, etc. But in the same way us Aussies don't have the access to many US audio brands, US customers are missing out on some excellent Aussie products.
Those speakers have a couple similar things going on to the Dutch and Dutch 8c. At the Florida Audio Expo, those D&D speakers were one of the two best speakers at the show by a good margin. $15k though….. but man they were beautiful sounding with some awesome technology both mechanical and electrical built in.
Looks nice, this speaker shows hofmann’s iron law in effect. It is low sensitivity and impedance but has good bass in a small package. Physics are a b$tch. Looks like a very nice speaker though with amazingly good tuning.
If you do the math of the components the price of the Sointuva is incredibly low, i can't immagine how Alan March can afford to have such a low profit margin... All good for the customer. And by the way i just purchased a P262 amp and it was one of the best buying experience I had. Can't speak enough good about the kind service he provides to his customers. And by the way before using his amp I was considering that my loudspeakes (Glockenklang Acustic Art MK IV) where very bad on definition an hi frq performance, now I'm very happy with them, they are reborn.
Agreed regarding the retail price of these speakers relative to the cost of the raw drivers, a quality cabinet, and well-performing crossover. And that's great to hear in regards to your new amp and Alan's customer service. Cheers!
Not to mention everything is currently 15% off for Feb; so yeah; the cost of cabinet makers and parts plus assembly; seems like not much room for gains. But idk. Maybe there are ways. Being a manufacturer there would be bulk discount for components at least
Shure OEM prices are shure lower but still, I''m shure that March Audio price is more than onest and he doesn't hit the almost indicent margins like usually happens in the high end domain. For example a pair of Lyingdorf audio CUE-100 cost 21'000€ Vs 2'700€ for a couple of Sointuva, for what more? An ATM tweeter (maybe a little more expensive than the Satori) 3 legs (more sticks) and a Nordic (IKEA like) design?
@@athosroduner7797 Look at the small $10k+ 2-way Wilson Audio TuneTots for another comparison. They DO put a lot of effort and proprietary design/materials into their enclosures... But IME, I don't think that it actually contributes quite as much to their performance as the pricing and hype might suggest. They do use top quality Scanspeak-sourced drivers, but given that just the two drivers per enclosure are being used, well, IDK, the price seems exorbitant for what equates to being just another small 2-way standmount. But as a much larger company, they obviously have way more overhead and operating expenses to cover. A lot of our determinations and rationality regarding price vs. performance and "value" are based on our perception of the apparent "prestige" of the brand. But that doesn't always result in comparatively better real world performance versus less expensive options such as the speakers under review in this video.
Minimum impedance 3.4ohms and 83db sensitivity. Fair to say you need a 100W, high current output amplifier at minimum to handle these. 250W continuous power handling is encouraging though. I guess if you’re spending $4k on bookshelf speakers you can spend some money on amplification.
Dude, I'm really glad I didn't pay full price for my Ref1 Metas after seeing this review. They might be getting dirty looks if I had 😂 These look awesome and would probably be my only choice if I didn't already have the Kefs. I know the price isn't comparable, but performance seems to be. How would you compare the Ref1m to these?
Oh, man, those Ref 1 Metas are INCREDIBLE. I’d really like to put these side-by-side and compare them. But I don’t think we would be surprised if we preferred the KEF. And, of course, we probably should give that it is twice the price. Anyway, you have nothing to regret with your purchase. I absolutely love that speaker. It’s one of my all-time favorites.
Comparing measurements, the Sointuva AWG has deeper bass, slightly more linear and less dynamic compression. The Reference 1 Meta had that wider radiating highs. They are very competitive imo, but the Sointuva AWG is less than half MSRP price, so the better value.
Erin, how would you compare these to the Mesanovic 65s? Is the cardioid feature of the Mesanovics worth the extra $1500 for mid/near field studio monitoring?
This strikes me as something to compare to the Philharmonic Audio HT Towers that are also in the $4 to $5K range. Both use the Purifi drivers. One is a tower with d'appolito midrange in a 3-way transmission line tower, while these are two ways with passive radiators.
Love your channel my man. One speaker i would like to see tested by you is the german Econik FOUR. Looks very promising Also this Sointuva linearity is impressive
My set just arrived a couple days ago, I went with a matte black finish and I think they look amazing. I know some people say the woofer looks weird but I think it's fine. I definitely like the sound, the extra dynamic range stood out to me fairly quickly. Maybe I'm not super discerning and I definitely have some nulls and modes in my room causing issues, so they maybe don't seem like a next-level upgrade over my previous set (The Focal Aria K2 906s) but in both cases I'm using Dirac room correction. I was a little bit concerned about the low sensitivity, but ended up getting a matching P422 stereo amplifier from March Audio that has around 400W per channel, so I'm hoping that more than makes up for it. I have somewhat ignored your advice though, as I have been using them with a subwoofer (the SVS SB-3000.) I was after a very neutral but still passive bookshelf speaker and I was tossing up between this set, the KEF R3 Meta and the Focal Kanta No. 1 (which were all roughly in the same price range in my region.) I discounted the Focal as no measurements were available and I was not able to demo them in my own space. I liked the R3s, but settled on the Sointuva as I liked the idea of buying something made locally. Definitely going to be my endgame speakers.
Damn, these look good! And with a passive XO, no less. I can hardly wait to see what will materialize when the Purifi tweeter goes from prototype to an actual available product. I think the proto in the Purifi "blog" may be the only thing I've seen that could top this from the midrange up.
@thomaslutro5560 For sure! I use several of the Purifi midwoofer and modbass drivers in both my home and car systems, and I've been patiently waiting for this Purifi tweeter ever since Lars Risbo hinted that one might be in the works. But in the meantime, I have been very happy with the BlieSMa beryllium dome tweeters.
@@bbfoto7248 Yeah, the Bliesma is the bomb. I've heard those at a show in Norway. In a fully DSP controlled, xo and room correction, DIY system. I think the rest of the driver complement ws some of those Morel underhung motor carbon fiber mids (MTM), Acoustic elegance 15" woofers (four eac side?). and four SEAS L26ROY each side for the sub bass (the owner has a nuber of satelite dish sized woofers at home, more or less built into the room, and pretty impractical to haul off to a show.) No part of that system was less than amazing. Leaps and bounds above all the other systems, ranging from hifi prices to car prices to house prices. And you've just got to love anyone who plays ABBA at a HiFi show. 😆
Erin, Have you looked at the Fritz Carrera Be or his Purifi speakers? Curious how these bespoke bookshelves from March Audio compare to Fritz's high-end stuff. Pricing is similar, too.
I was surprised that you were surprised at the surprising outcome. IMHO, it's good to know that those will not make my ears bleed while not needing a subwoofer.
Thanks Erin for an insightful review of a fine speaker. Wondering about the 7 degree above tweeter axis listening window. Was that experimentally determined, or spec'd by manufacturer?
Manufacturer told me. They had this speaker measured by the folks at Warkwyn beforehand as part of the design process and that’s how they came up with this info.
I was surprised to see such low sensitivity ratings. I'm not a speaker designer and would like to understand that the efficiency trade-off was for the bass extension? Also, how did they sound at lower listening volumes? Thanks.
Purifi spk16 protype looks like a big brother to this speakers with wider response all the way to 20k. They are working on a tweeter that will be used in that speaker. i think that one will be better competitor for this one.
I didn’t say “budget”. Understood. Like I replied to another commenter, I can’t think of any other passive speakers that have the frequency, bandwidth and load distortion that this speaker has. Certainly not in its size for sure. Now, if we want to talk about active, powered speakers, of course, that’s a different story. The issue with those for me is that everyone of them except for the Dutch and Dutch 8C use DSP limiting. I don’t really like that feature. As for tower speakers in this price range, I admittedly don’t have a lot of experience. I have measured some such as the JBL HDI-3800 and Revel 226Be. Neither of those extend as low as these (but they weren’t designed to, either). This is my perspective of when I say HiFi value. I can only think of a few passive speakers that perform as well as this particular one and they are at least double the price. KEF Reference Meta 1 ($9k/pair) and JBL 4367 ($16k/pair, and huge). If you have any examples of bookshelf, sized speakers that perform as well as these do at the same price, or less than I am all ears. Seriously. Also, keep in mind of what I said in the title. A “HiFi bargain”. Many “HiFi“ speakers do not perform as well, but cost as much or more.
Sensitivity is 83db/2.83V @1m AT LESS THAN 4ohm. This makes it a seriously hard to drive speaker because as we know there's no free lunch when it comes to size vs bass response.. Amp cost should be seriously considered. Also, for EU customers this is euro 4K (shipping included) shipped from Australia before VAT, import tax and customs processing fees. That could easily bring its final price to >5K euro depending on individual country,, competing with many high-ish end european brands which offer local support and which can usually be had at a discount over their RRP. Having to ship back to Aus at one's expense in case anything's wrong with it, is a serious expense and hassle which should be taken into consideration. Having to buy blind is a huge minus too, at this level of pricing.
That tends to go for any speaker that has to cover from another country. If it's a distributed brand, you just get slapped with the cost straight up when purchasing. Eg EU brands sold in USA and vice versa
@@RennieAsh Yes, but one has to compare apples to apples. This is not a $4K speaker in the EU, it is not even a euro 4K speaker, it is a euro 5K+ speaker with all the added disadvantages, that was the point of my comment.
@@razisnyes, varies by country. Usually creator talks about things from the perspective of the country they're in. It may suck to get them to your country but doesn't mean it's not good for other places. Same thing goes for all the free shipping bargain bin speakers in America - you pay double in aus and still have to pay shipping on top of it
This is a great speaker with those two excellent drivers. Did you give feedback to March Audio to ask them to improve the horizontal directivity to around 60 degree from 3kand up?
Hi. As I mentioned in the original comments, there is a direct correlation between directivity "width" and how bright the speaker will sound (regardless of having a flat on axis response). So you need to balance dispersion with the in room response to ensure it doesn't tip into bright and fatuiging. This dispersion is dictated by the tweeter waveguide. Any speakercdesign is a bunch of compromises and we beleive sacrificing a little dispersion width is worth doing to obtain the most neutral and non fatuiging timbre.
Would you describe these as having a "big" sound? (referencing your video from a couple of weeks ago). Are these great speakers period, or are these great "bookshelf" speakers? To me, once you add a stand, bookshelf or floor standing speakers take up the same amount of space, so I'm looking for what are just good speakers. PS. Thank you for the great reviews as always!
it prob depends on what your needs are / what you care about most. what your ear height will be most often. will there be a sub. how loud you need to get. etc. per room size. tons of smaller speakers do really well.
They are basically measuring as perfect as a bookshelf can measure. But I do feel conflicted about it. It are all of the shelf part in a pretty but very simple box. This could be a DIY build for the wekend. I like it when a speaker company does something I couldn't do myself, KEF blades, ancora, B&W nautulus, etc.
it does what is designed to to very well. but if i want a March Audio speakers i would have wished for a MTM with those active drivers, proper sealed cabinet. maybe that would cost about the same and gain more benefits and loose some low bass if you do not have dsp. but if you have dsp would it do the same bass extension or better? at least it can play louder with two mid woofers, that means less distortion.
I have some Purifi-equipped bookshelf speakers from Buchardt, and my impression is that other speakers of the same size seem to "add" something to the sound (maybe some reverb? longer decay of transients? distortion?) while the Purifi drivers sound more "pure" (forgive the pun). As if the Purifi drivers played in a less reverberant room. Someone else agreed to that description (they compared Klipsch RP-600Mii with Nuchardt A10). Did you hear something the March Audio speakers that goes along the above description as well? I'm not saying this "purity" would automatically better or worse, it just struck me as an attribute only heard on these Purifi drivers.
I try to care only about how speakers sound, and not how they look, but I just can't get past those woofers that look like a puppy chewed on them. I don't think I could own these or the Buchardts that have the same woofer. Thanks for your videos- I like your approach and delivery and appreciate the information you give.
@stevenbauer1730 I've heard several people with this same strong viewpoint regarding how they just can't get past the odd look of these midwoofers due to their unique or "funky" surround design. I find that interesting and actually a bit amusing (now). I have to admit that I found it a bit odd at first as well. However, once you actually understand and appreciate the brilliant and purposeful design of this surround from a technological and acoustics engineering perspective, this aspect of their design really grows on you, and I actually visualize/imagine this technology in action while sitting down and listening to them, LOL. :P The interface or intersection of the surround to the edge of the cone and the surround's constantly changing shape or profile during the +/- excursion of the cone on traditional cone-based loudspeaker transducers has always created some acoustic anomalies and detrimental effects, and it has just been an accepted limitation of cone/surround-based drivers. And these detrimental effects only worsen as the SPL and excursion increases...i.e. the louder we play our speakers. But the brilliant designers of the Purifi drivers finally came up with a unique and very effective surround profile and design that virtually eliminates these negative effects, and in effect the surround for all intents and purposes becomes "invisible" to the sound waves that are propagating and eminating from the driver's cone. With this unique surround design, the size and shape of the cone is effectively more consistent and is no longer constantly changing as the cone moves in & out. This greatly improves linearity and accuracy. This unique surround profile is truly a major leap forward in what is otherwise age old driver design, and IMO is a true work of art to an acoustic/transducer engineer. And IMPE, this, along with some of the other unique technology in the motor design of these Purifi drivers is readily apparent when listening to them. It's NOT a gimmick.
Oh, and there is of course the possibility to add speaker grills to these in order to hide the offending drivers from view. :P But I'm sure they might have their own detrimental effects
Cool… It’s look like a Buchardt A10 in a less pretty cabinet, that doesn’t go as low (25hz), and don’t include amp, dac and room correction for roughly the same price ;)
What’s the Buchardt do at high volume? Specifically, is there a limiter? My experience with powered speakers is they all use a limiter to decrease bass as volume increases. The only exception I’m aware of is the D&D 8c. Here, I reviewed the Buchardt A500. Scroll toward the bottom and look at the output linearity/compression test. See how regulated the bass is even at 86dB? erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/buchardt_a500/
@@ErinsAudioCorner you are right, A10 are not for loud music BUT they sound freaking amazing @80db! If you want more SPL, cut the bass and add sub. It is fun to have more SPL but for achieving that with the March Audio, you need a 2000$ amp so you are at 6000$ and you still need a sub.
@@ErinsAudioCorner and next time you review Buchardt, remember to hipass them @ 40-50hz to compare to other speakers (just load the S400 mastertuning). By the way I have also the Lintons and love them.the A10 are better in every way. Even the inside DAC is better than my mojo 2 that I use with the Lintons.
Nice review, thanks. How do they compare to the older Version? Whats the difference between the old and the new Aluminium woofer? Audible Changes? Would be nice to know maybe for diy. Greetings 👋
When Erin calls $4k pr speakers Budget speakers 😳😳....... Makes me laugh. I mean yeah compared to $80k yeah but everything is relative. I'm sure that he is really just trying to express the "value" proposition but that certainly isn't a budget speaker for me! LoL
Yep, me too. My nostalgic preference aligns with Off the Wall. It changed people. There was an existing clash between disco and everything else. I'm mean disco sucks, right? Off the Wall converted Molly Hatchet fans, Led Zeppelin hardliners ... it was killer, so infectious, punchy sound, hit after hit. There was no denying it. Muscle cars w/Pioneer Supertuners were playing MJ's Off the Wall, off 8 tracks far and wide. '79, the peak of music releases. I'd put '79's releases up against any year ... it's remarkable.
When you say you measure them, are you referring to response or dynamic range? For me it’s not necessarily even about either of those. It’s more about the layering and effects that are on thriller. I grew up with Michael Jackson so I’m very familiar with all of his music, including His and his brothers. Thriller is a stable for me for a few reasons. But I do enjoy off the wall a lot as well.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Of course I didn't measure them, was a joke, thank you for making me explain it. I feel like Thriller is pop music while Off the Wall is just good soul/funk music. Feels more authentic and black.
@@zergbonghell, how do you think I feel?… because now I have to explain that people do actually use tools to measure spectral density, response, polar energy and dynamic range of music tracks. 😅 That’s what I thought you were serious. 🤦♂️
Anyone who wants these for Half Price - yes click bait title, but Helios Kit from Madisound is half price, has the same tweeter, has SB Satori 9.5 inch woofer and 10inch PR. Satori, while perhaps not Purifi, is not too far off. Erin's description could apply very closely to my experience with the Helios. You would have to be able to build the box yourself. It is approx 1.25 cubic feet internal volume, so larger than most other bookshelves. From the description, I am guessing Helios bass is at least as good if not better. Good luck!
@ron5493 Agreed that Jeff Bagby's Helios is an excellent DIY speaker. For the money, they are difficult to match if you can DIY. I built Jeff's KAIROS which is another excellent design that punches well above its price point, but unfortunately had to sell them when downsizing, but heard a friend's Helios. But from personal experience with both, the Purifi midwoofer and midbass drivers are another level above the Satori line in both midbass and midrange quality when properly implemented, albeit at increased cost.
I really hope you get your hands on some ATC speakers (at least scm 50 (a)sl). They claim +-80° horizontal dispersion and i'd really like to see that in your measirements.
Aluminium needs a notch filter, paper version maybe you could get away with it. Probably the crossover at up to 2.5k depending on slope. The original design for the Sointuva was actually using a t34b I think. Crossed at 1600Hz
So purifi magic. Very Low sensivity and narrow vertical response are no for me. But love that frequenccy response. I can buy 1 r3 meta plus Rel t9x subwoofer with that money, what is your opinion are they equal in room response? edit:rel
I’m not familiar with that particular subwoofer. But if it’s a best case scenario, then I would probably go the subwoofer and Kef route with the appropriate crossover. If you’re looking for a bookshelf, speaker, that can pretty much play full range, though, this speaker is probably your best bed that I’m aware of today.
3 dB of sensitivity “lost” in crossover? to smoothing??? In 2.83 Volt*1m, the speaker itself is 83.0 dB While the drivers are - The PTT6.5W04-NAA-07 (from Purifi’s datasheet) is 86.3 dB (The Satori TW29BNWG-4 is far higher at 97 dB!)
I think you're going to have to expand on that "value" comment, Erin. A $4k price point includes some pretty serious competition, including many floorstanders and active speakers.
Understood. Like I replied to another comer, I can’t think of any other passive speakers that have the frequency, bandwidth and load distortion that this speaker has. Certainly not in its size for sure. Now, if we want to talk about active, powered speakers, of course, that’s a different story. The issue with those for me is that everyone of them except for the Dutch and Dutch 8C use DSP limiting. I don’t really like that feature. As for tower speakers in this price range, I admittedly don’t have a lot of experience. I have measured some such as the JBL HDI-3800 and Revel 226Be. Neither of those extend as low as these (but they weren’t designed to, either). This is my perspective of when I say HiFi value. I can only think of a few passive speakers that perform as well as this particular one and they are at least double the price. KEF Reference Meta 1 ($9k/pair) and JBL 4367 ($16k/pair, and huge). If you have any examples of bookshelf, sized speakers that perform as well as these do at the same price, or less than I am all ears. Seriously. Also, keep in mind of what I said in the title. A “HiFi bargain”. Many “HiFi“ speakers do not perform as well, but cost as much or more.
Great review Erin, and, yeah, they are on my short list. Inasmuch as I already have two SVS SB 2000's, I would probably cross them over around 100 hz and use DLBC to set the crossover. I'm also in a small room (12' x 15'), so I think my Purifi Eval 1, which the Nad is based on, would be quite adequate at 135 WPC into 8 ohms. They would also do double duty as a 2+2 for stereo, and the L-R in a 5.1 home theater. Don't think I would be wasting my money that way, but I would like to see how the Sierra LX's stack up against them. Any thoughts on how they compare with the Mesanovic CDM 65? What are the respective strengths and weaknesses of each? Again, great review. You seem to get so many of these cutting edge designs to review, so congrats on that.
I have a pair of the Mesanovic Model 2 ribbon microphones in my home studio and can't recommend them highly enough. I'd definitely love to try his monitors as well. Can't imagine they'd be anything but excellent.
Funny you mentioned Thriller. Are you referring to the song or album? I'm 10 years older than you and remember watching the debut of the Thriller video. It was amazing as a kid to see a mini movie as a video. MJ dominated everything then. I have the MOFI One Step of the album. I couldn't believe the things I could hear that I didn't even know existed before. That entire album is more complex than most people realize. Hey, would it be possible to get some photos or videos of the product you're discussing? Maybe you could do some voiceover. I know Google exists, but that would be a more interesting and useful video. Cheers 👍
Both actually. It’s hard for me to say for sure, but one of my favorite songs off of that is human nature. I just love that soundscape that it creates. Which saying that out loud, now I feel really weird. 😂😂
And Sun Audio Purified 4, which leaves the choice of DSP and amps to the user, thus outboard solution. Purifi woofer and Bliesma tweeter. All very nice options to choose from.
Thanks for the review Erin. At the price point I would understand lots of reluctance regarding these speakers. When you say they beat tower speakers are they beating lots of towers at that price ? It's about a great tonality ranking correct ? Shows 7.3 at spinorama. I guess I have to find a place where I can listen to them to get an understanding of what the money buys. Many of us don't want to get too far on the wrong side of diminishing returns.
@ErinsAudioCorner Nice to see these being tested and highlighted again. :) So, after having reviewed these, would you choose these or the Mofi SourcePoint 8? ;) The SourcePoint 8 are roughly $1,200 less expensive and the MoFi include the stands. And that savings would allow enough money for a decent subwoofer to be added (if so desired). I'm guessing that aesthetically you might prefer the Mofi SourcePoint 8 and the draw of a good concentric driver design. But what about in terms of pure sound quality and enjoyment of the music you love to listen to on a daily basis?
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks, mate. Yeah, we each have our own personal preferences in regards to aesthetics. But from my own personal experience using the Purifi drivers, it's really hard to imagine achieving better bass and midbass performance, as well as the fantastic SQ of their midrange, of course. But I also have a pair of the Kali IN-8 and can appreciate what good concentric drivers bring to the table. I'm also really interested in and looking forward to the release of the Purifi tweeters. But for now, I'm over the moon with the performance and SQ of the BlieSMa beryllium tweeters.
Impressive result for passive speakers. I would very much See the Ukkonen floorstanding being measured, it seems those definitely don’t need a subwoofer.
I thought they would have been sent off to be measured at the same time as Sointuva (different people than Erin). Not sure why the measurements are taking so long !
Understood. Like I replied to another commenter, I can’t think of any other passive speakers that have the frequency, bandwidth and load distortion that this speaker has. Certainly not in its size for sure. Now, if we want to talk about active, powered speakers, of course, that’s a different story. The issue with those for me is that everyone of them except for the Dutch and Dutch 8C use DSP limiting. I don’t really like that feature. As for tower speakers in this price range, I admittedly don’t have a lot of experience. I have measured some such as the JBL HDI-3800 and Revel 226Be. Neither of those extend as low as these (but they weren’t designed to, either). This is my perspective of when I say HiFi value. I can only think of a few passive speakers that perform as well as this particular one and they are at least double the price. KEF Reference Meta 1 ($9k/pair) and JBL 4367 ($16k/pair, and huge). If you have any examples of bookshelf, sized speakers that perform as well as these do at the same price, or less than I am all ears. Seriously. Also, keep in mind of what I said in the title. A “HiFi bargain”. Many “HiFi“ speakers do not perform as well, but cost as much or more.
Bargain doesn't necessarily relate to a $ number in and if itself. You could get a pair of focal grand utopia for $4k and I'm sure $4k and bargain would mix then.
Great review, many thanks! For the vertical dispersion, do you think a listener could turn the speaker upside down? For example, if someone has good 24/26inch stands and wants to keep them...
Get a protractor and draw to scale of such stands, tweeter height and 7⁰ angle downwards; you might find that you can only have a really low couch. The tweeter will need to be above your ears when upside down
They have purfi woofers they have a really good Xmax and tons of none distorted bass and the tweeters look like berrilum maybe scan speak. The raw drivers themselves are very expensive and out of my budget right now even though I have been drooling over them.
@@dexi9814 exactly. I just checked on the 6.5 and they are actually on sale for $500 a piece never mind the passive radiators , tweeter is probably $285 and then the crossover and cabinet. I have built my own speakers and they cost me around $1000 just the drivers and crossovers and my friends will be like you could sell them for like $200 after I put a 100 hrs to design, test and build them. That's what people don't get
Erin, i'm planning to buy Audio Physic high end bookshelves. But with my denon AVR the crossover will be set at 80hz. Is it pointless to buy expensive speakers when using 80hz crossover?
If you’re using sensitivity means, then, they will naturally roll off a bit earlier so you have to use a subwoofer. But the benefit you get is a higher sensitivity. That’s just an example though. I would never say that crossing over at 80 Hz entirely defeats the purpose of using more expensive speakers. There other qualities that make them expensive. And this particular case, however, it’s nearly full range and I feel like if you plan to buy this speaker and cross it over at 80 Hz, then you can find other options that cost less.
Hi Erin, Allow me a question with your review of the March Audio Sointuva AWG, you have spent much of the video mentioning how good they sound, their low resonance, their extremely good linearity, their great estimated response in the room, the very low distortion, Using a SW the distortion at 3% drops even further. When you mention the 80 Hz cut-off thinking about a SW, you say spending USD $4,000 on some bookshelf in a room, you do not recommend it, it is preferable to buy some speakers, whether other bookshelf speakers or some tower spekars plus the SW. This is where I don't understand you, do you really think that cheap tower or floor speakers can generate all the characteristics that you have praised for products less than USD $ 1000? I don't remember many speakers, I think less than fingers on one hand, that have recorded such results in your tests and in your listening. Do you have any references of USD $1K or even USD $2K tower speakers that measure and sound as good from 80Hz to 20KHz? If you know them, please tell me what they are and I will buy you a SW. Anyway, very good review.
I think what Erin was getting at is, IF you specifically want to stick with Bookshelf size loudspeakers that play nearly Full Range for all intents and purposes without the necessity of using a separate subwoofer, AND you already have a suitable high-quality amplifier and electronics with enough power to drive these to your preferred listening levels, then there are very few other passive loudspeakers (especially at this price point) which will get the job done without other compromises. A potential option for similar size standmount/bookshelf speakers which also perform extremely well might be the KEF R3 Meta at nearly half the price. BUT you will 100% need to combine the R3 Meta with an equally good subwoofer to even begin to approach the low frequency performance and extension that the Sointuva AWG achieve on their own. IF you don't already have a good amplifier and/or other suitable high-quality electronic components to drive these or other high-quality passive loudspeakers, a potentially comparable option for just slightly less overall cost might be the Neumann KH 150 active studio monitors, which use built-in DSP and amplifiers, and their response can be adjusted via the DSP so as to be tailored for your specific in-room response as well as personal preferences depending on their placement in the room. HOWEVER, as Erin Notes, 95% of active studio monitors on the market at comparable prices usually have built-in power limiters that reduce the lower frequency bass output as you turn the speakers up to higher levels, whereas the passive Sointuva AWG do not have this limitation and might "scale up" better on the low end at higher listening levels as long as you have the necessary power to drive them. Admittedly, for many people, a good bookshlelf "satellite + subwoofer" loudspeaker system may make more sense and be more cost effective. But again, IF you Don't want to use a Separate Subwoofer AND Don't want anything larger than Bookshelf/Standmount size speakers, these are one of the very few that he feels will "get the job done" properly with fantastic SQ.
@@RennieAsh Possibly. Unfortunately haven't had the opportunity to hear any of the Arendals. :/ But like you (I think), I have quite a bit of experience with higher end DIY loudspeaker designs and raw drivers, and have personally used these same and other Purifi drivers in multiple systems in both my home and car setups. And IMPE, the lifelike midrange and midbass quality and detail that can be achieved when properly implementing these Purifi drivers is second to none (except for possibly my cousin's outrageously expensive Børresen Model 03 floorstanders!), and that includes having used other extremely high-end drivers such as the Scanspeak Revelator and Illuminator, SEAS, SB Acoustic Textremes, Eton HEX/Symphony II, Dynaudio Esotar, Audio Technology Cquenze, Hiquphon, etc. One of the few lines that I haven't tried, but would definitely like to try, are the high-end Accuton ceramic and diamond drivers. But they're just too bloody rich for my blood, and I can't get discounted pricing for them like I can for most of the others. I will say from personal experience that the BlieSMa beryllium dome tweeters and dome midrange drivers are truly EXCEPTIONAL, and are an excellent match to the lifelike qualities of these Purifi drivers, with expensive, but not exorbitant prices considering their performance. To be sure, there are heaps and heaps of good loudspeakers available more than ever before, so finding the needles in the haystack are even that much more difficult and potentially costly. Luckily, Erin and a few others have begun to provide excellent data and real-world observations backed up with heaps of personal experience in order to help isolate and expose some of the best options in nearly every category and price bracket...as well as many of the not so good options. And for that I'm truly grateful @ErinsAudioCorner
@@bbfoto7248i was eyeing off the hifi compass purifi bliesma waveguide speaker, but they never seemed to get anywhere with deciding if they are going to sell that design . Maybe one day i could fiddle with such drivers, but also easier when someone has already measured and designed the crossover :)
That's definitely a great track. "Make Us Stronger" by Ghost Rider or "Acoustic Crumpet" & "The Last Rainforest" by DJ Smilk are excellent as well. I really like "Dub in a Time of Cholera" by Dub Colossus. "Boxenkiller" by Martin Hess & Cyril Lutzelschwab from the Focal/JM Lab Disque du Demonstration No. 4. "Testa di Basso" by Saturnino on the Microprecison Test CD or New CD Picaso sampler disc. But I also prefer good recordings with acoustic upright double bass. Just about anything from Brian Bromberg, Ray Brown Trio (The Real Blues), or Nenad Vasilic are good. The separate upright bass and drum solos in "Devil May Care" from Cecile McLorin Salvant's "Dreams and Daggers" album is excellent. Try Lhasa de Sela's "My Name" from her "Living Road" album, both for the bass in the intro and the percussion imaging later in the track. Jacques Loussier's "Little Fugue in G Minor BWV 578" from the "Encore!" album for the attack/impact and decay of the floor tom drum...and all around excellent test track. Prokofiev's "Bass Drum Concerto - Movement 4: Allegro Brilliante (may speed)" Joby Burgess on Hyperion Records. There's a short but excellent track (# 5) titled, "Classical Bass Authority" on the "NuForce Test CD" that is incredibly revealing. But the primary track I use for testing bass accuracy, detail, and impact is Track # 4 " Acoustic Percussion Ensemble" from the Stockfisch Records "Are You Authentic? AYA Acoustic Audio Check" SACD. That SACD or Vinyl LP also includes other excellent tracks for testing all specific aspects of a loudspeaker system. There are a lot I'm forgetting at the moment, but that's a start.
I get asked this question quite a lot, with regard to both speakers and amplifiers. I think there is a bit of a general misunderstanding about why kit sounds different at low volumes. The kit doesn't fundamentally sound different at lower volumes. However, your perception of sound certainly does change. You are less sensitive to low and high frequencies at low volumes. Hence the Loudness controls of old (out of fashion now). Google Fletcher Munsen curves.😊
The "HIFI Bargain" seems like kind of a strech, the Buchardt Anniversary 10 perform really similar to this speaker because it also make use of the Purifi woofers, it reaches 25 hz -6 db with a smooth frequency response but with a wider dispersion and its a active speaker while costing almost the same (€3.800)
@@ErinsAudioCorner The review is on ASR but the compresion is about 2 db at 96 db with the Buchardt and it has higher distortion because it reaches lower frequecny in a sealed cabinet, so its kind of a trade off. Also the fact that already has his owm amplifier while costing almost the same should be making it a much better value than this speaker. The March Audio Sointuva AWG performs really good but it doesn't seem close to begin the "Ultimate HIFI bargain"
@@danielezzet8870 I believe you have to put his superlative into context: best bargain of the speakers he has heard. Also, he did say in a comment that he doesn't care for limiters in active speakers. Plus, he said if viewers know of a better bargain then comment. When he hears them, he will be able to judge whether the increased distortion keeps them from trouncing these speakers.
Great review, thank you. Just absolutely believable what you say. Maybe you can give me a tip with your experience: What do you think is the best home theater setup for a small 15x12x8 foot room (Floorstandig / wall-mount) at a reasonable price?
I just looked on Madison sound and 6.5 purfi woofers are on sale right now and I wouldn't use a subwoofer with them because the purfi woofers have such non distorted bass . Any subwoofer is just going to not keep up.
@BostonMike68 I wouldn't go so far as to make that statement. I use several of the purify drivers in both my home and car audio systems, but there are plenty of excellent and very capable low distortion subwoofer drivers on the market, such as many of the Acoustic Elegance models made by Jon Janowitz, or the 13" Scanspeak 32W/4878T00, 10" SEAS L26ROY, JBL GTi 15 MK II, and several other larger subwoofers produced by very well-regarded pro audio driver manufacturers. IIRC, Erin is actually using one of the larger Acoustic Elegance IB18 subwoofers in his current Tesla car audio system, and had previously used the JL Audio 12W6v3 in a sealed enclosure in his former car audio system. ;) In addition, we are much less sensitive to Distortion in the lower bass frequency region compared to the midrange and treble frequencies, i.e. ~3% is the generally accepted audible distortion limit for midrange and treble, while ~10% distortion is the generally accepted limit for subwoofers. But like any other driver, it's all about how well each subwoofer driver is implemented into the final loudspeaker design or system and its crossover to the other drivers. Due to the major influence the room has on the lower bass frequencies, IME it's incredibly important to be able to dial-in and tailor the specific response and output of one or more subwoofers for each specific system. As a quick reference, download the Owner's Manual for any of the Neumann professional studio subwoofer models and read all that they have to say regarding the importance of good subwoofer implementation.
@@bbfoto7248 no I agree there are definitely some good fast subwoofers out there. I actually have a 12" Dayton Reference HE with a 15 reference passive radiator that I put together and run with a XLR crown amp and for the money it's not a slouch. I built it manly for music. I was just thinking how most people have a home theater subwoofer. But I guess if you can spend $4000 on a pair of speakers and you don't do diy you probably would get a REEL or something.
Impressive results...I don't think "budget" can be applied to a pair that costs $4k regardless of the performance. I don't know that I could ever pull the trigger at that price...pretty sure $4k+ is an amount that results in infinite decision paralysis for me.
Very interesting review. This reminds me a lot of the new Buchardt speakers with the Purify drivers. I had never even heard of this brand so bringing it to my attention is appreciated.
@@RennieAsh yup, but d&d seems to be a really god option if you just want to listen to music and stoop thinking about switching amps/dacs/speakers (aka audiophilia nervousa) I've been there (with headphones) and never want to go back to that sad state. I'm here for music not equipment
I noticed that as well but it's hard to say exactly what the cause is. The driver is different; being an aluminum cone version. Maybe there's something that's "different enough" to make this difference.
I am assuming the AWG version can get lower and the trade off is a bit higher compression but I couldn't find the F3 and F10 numbers for the previous version on your website. Hope you can take a look at the measurement of previous version. Thanks in advance!!
@@ErinsAudioCornerthe driver listed is the "W" aluminium version with less coil excursion than the previous version with the "X" paper cone. Unless there a typo and they are using the "X" aluminium version
@@ErinsAudioCorner Hey mate! I'll trade you straight across for your used copy of the MoFi Thriller album for a certain kick@ss 7-disc box set compilation of 80's tunes titled, "Like, Omigod! The 80's Pop Culture Box (Totally!)". ;-) I knows yous gots my email! :-P
I believe it's difficult to justify 4 grand for a bookshelf speaker. Especially when the tweeters and drivers are not even their own. Symphonic Line/Odyssey uses ScanSpeak Wilson uses Scanspeak March Audio uses SB Acoustics Others use Dayton or VIFA and the list goes on. Many manufacturers spend a fortune on R&D and make very well built cabinets. PMC and Monitor Audio come to mind. However, diminishing returns really start at around $1000 or so. So when the PSB built the Stratus mini (circa mid 90's) & pretty much reaches the limit of what can be done with a 5" woofer and years of experience while using Ottawa's anechoic chamber for roughly $1000, there's no way an online company that's only a few years old can justify $4k. Not to mention, most who can afford this 'bargain' aren't 20 years old with great hearing. They're 40+ years old and lucky if they can actually hear much above 4kz. To be clear, not at all saying they're snake oil. That's for $400 fuses and $10k power cords. Simply saying very overpriced. Considering the younger generation are more into headphones nowadays, the high end speaker/amp companies seem to actually want to price themselves out of the market. This topic has been covered by 'audio gurus' at open forums at audio shows like Axpona and RMAF for a few years now, yet no one seems to be learning or adjusting.
I have a hard time believing that particular speaker you were talking about performs as well as this one. But I’m happy to be proven wrong. The frequency bandwidth and low distortion of this speaker are unparalleled at its price point and size, as far as I’m aware. In fact, I can’t think of any passive speakers that extend this low that can get as loud as they do, that are the same price or cheaper. The only ones I can think of offhand that do are much more expensive. As for the part about most 40-year-olds can’t hear above 4kHz… I’d like to see the research on that. 14-15kHz shows up in a quick google search for middle-aged men. Maybe you have a typo?
@@ErinsAudioCorner A simple phone app test will put the lie to no 4kHz after 40. I'm 63 and have done all kinds of bad things to my hearing in my lifetime, but I can still hear to 9k, which apparently is typical for someone my age.
Lol you should look at the price of all the drivers used and the wood construction and the man hours and you'd see these are under priced... If these were made by some snobby old man audiophile brand like B&W, it would have cost $20,000
Hi Erin
Many thanks for the review, it's an honest and very accurate description of the speakers.
I just wanted to comment and explain our philosophy regarding the directivity/dispersion of the speaker.
What I have found is that many speakers (far too many IMO) have too much sound power in the 2 to 8kHz region which tends to lead to a bright sound. People should understand that this bright effect happens even if the on axis frequency response is flat. This becomes fatiguing, especially so when listening loud. I note your comments on how easy it is to inadvertently listen too loud with these speakers :) . You are not the first person to mention this.
The potential issue with wider directivity is that it pumps more high frequency sound power into the room. The sound power response will be flatter, and hence the in room response will be flatter. Its a fine line to where this becomes too flat and the speaker starts to sound bright and fatiguing.
So its a compromise you have to choose. Our philosophy is to make the sound power and DI as smooth as possible, and pay great attention to the slope of the In Room Response to avoid the speaker being bright and harsh.
At the end of the day it's a judgement call, there is no definitive right or wrong answer. Some will prefer the wider and more diffuse soundstage of wider dispersion speakers (at the potential risk of too bright and fatiguing sound), and some will prefer the more precise placement, less diffuse soundstage of a narrower directivity speaker.
At the various HiFi shows we exhibit at we get frequent responses from the public saying they could listen all day to the speakers. They are non fatiguing but with all the clarity and detail you could ever wish for............along with questions of "where is the sub-woofer"? :)
Thanks again
Alan March
March Audio.
Understood and thank you for replying. It’s really cool to have the manufacturer provide this kind of “behind the scenes” info.
I know some manufacturers (KEF and a couple Andrew Jones designs as well as one of the Ascend Acoustics) will purposely tilt down the on-axis response in some of their designs to "make up" for the wide and flat directivity in the HF so that the in-room response won’t sound bright or treble-heavy. Always trade-offs.
this is one of those examples where the truth hurts.. I am with you 100% on this one.. too bright between 2 to 8 kHz may work for some people who like lower SPL's, but definitely not optimal for louder listening.. and I am also tired of that mindset that subs are always needed. it's always puzzling how knowledge and ignorance can actually intersect due to a lack of sense.😉
The never ending juggling of comprimises encountered in this pursuit.
@@FOH3663 the point,
in my mind, is that the manufacturers should try to make the equipment as accurately as possible, but, if people decide they want to hear something non-optimal, they can EQ and add subs to their heart's content.. if they're going to manufacture equipment that's application specific, then as a manufacturer they should "advertise" the equipment in that vein.. hip-hop speakers or heavy metal speakers or whatever. Market to the strength of the product.
Not related to the review, but the domain march dot audio actually is something you might register. Probably a bit pricier than cut rate domains though.
I own a pair of these in a dedicated listening room. I could easily buy and add a subwoofer, space and price would not be an issue. I just don't feel it's necessary. I love these speakers.
Thanks for sharing, Matias!
Cool. How are you powering them?
@@FOH3663 Hypex NCx500 modules, 700W per channel into 2 and 4 ohms. Plenty of clean power.
@@FOH3663 I use Hypex NCx500 modules. 700W into both 2 and 4 ohms. Plenty of clean power.
What is your setup? Could you share please?
The linearity on these is insane! Better than most digital active monitors. They look like the real deal small/medium room endgame speaker.
I want a pair. And a 300wpc amp to drive them.
I suspect an amp based on the Purifi 1ET400A could be just the ticket for these. Kits based on the Eval1 and Eval2 (and Hypex PSU) are available at very reasonable prices too (I use an Eval1 based amp, and it's just difficult to describe how good it is). I you really want to indulge yourself, the 1ET7040SA looks even better.
You have become my favorite audio reviewer on all of RUclips due to your understanding and testing of how products really sound. Thank you Erin for your no-nonsense approach that is second to none.
Thanks for all you do man! I’ve learned so much from your channel and I would not buy or recommend a speaker that you have not reviewed. One suggestion: include more pictures and descriptions of the speaker up front including what the divers are, what the low end alignment is (port, sealed, PR), what the crossover points are and what type of crossover and how is the cabinet constructed/finished. I think a lot of your viewers are speaker builders and we nerd out and this stuff big time! Thanks again Erin!
Thanks. Yeah, I definitely drop the ball on some of those details. Thanks for holding me accountable.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Erin, whatever details I'm curious about that are not in your video, I usually try the manufacturer for additional information. Sometimes I don't get all the details, but usually enough to satisfy the basic technical curiousities, but for particular info about cabinet construction, crossover design, materials and parts, manufacturers are usually only sometimes accomodating, and only to a certain degree. March Audio has a fairly reasonable amount of info about this product on their website. Viewers can't expect to be told how to design the speakers you are reviewing.😂
This is awesome, almost wish I waited before buying my Buchardt A10, glad they share the woofers.
The midbass is why you buy these speakers - quite impressive for passive sealed speakers.
They are not sealed. They have 2 passive radiators. Speakers with passive radiators are more akin to ported than sealed speakers.
The drivers alone at *preferential* pricing is slightly under half the entire speaker retail price. How they add a nice cabinet and crossover then sell it at this price is... unusual. If they only sell direct I guess shipping and import fees will add a chunk but still..
Shipping overseas likely would cost a bit. In Australia the shipping is about 2.5% the price
In the EU, total price will end up to about the euro 5K+ region... plus you have to pay return shipping to Australia if anything goes wrong..
Simple, manufacturer choose direct model and isn't greedy
@5333092 It's not only about greed, it costs a lot to run a manufacturing business. Maybe labour is cheap in Aus??
@@Audio_Simon Labour is very expensive in Aus, but you don't seem to appreciate that a worldwide distribution and support network accounts for at least 50% of the end price. Part of it is offset by lower manufacturer marketing costs (since much of it is on the distributors) but in this case I don't think March Audio spend too much on marketing. Btw crossover parts cost is usually little more than peanuts.
The perfermance was quite similar to Neumann's KH150 (even a bit better)! Amazing!
As a KH150 owner I was thinking the same. These must be about the best linearity I've seen without DSP and that distortion is very low indeed. They're around double the price though it seems, taking need for decent amplification into account.
For that Price in Europe you Can get kh 150's + kh 750, you Can get to 20Hz, no need for an amp, you get built in Ma-1 correction. Directivity is a tad better but the kh system beats them in every category, with a few added bonuses including full spectrum phase linearity, weight, and ability to put them close to a wall.
Best passive bookshelves i've ever seen measured though, impressive performance Indeed.
@@matieuche Price in Europe is bound to end up at euro 5K+...
@@dananskidolf
From personal experience, the DIYclassD Hypex Nilai500-based stereo amplifier kit is exceptional at around $1350 USD and has plenty of power to drive nearly any loudspeakers with the added benefit of being pretty much impedance-load agnostic.
It's a completely solderless kit with snap-together wiring harnesses provided and will only take you half a day to assemble using just basic hand tools.
IMO, that's not a ton of money, but IME it offers exceptional performance matching that of much more expensive amplifiers.
I haven't done definitive blind testing yet, but from my personal subjective impressions, so far I have preferred the Hypex Nilai500 over the Purifi Eigentakt, and I'm a bonified Purifi fanboi otherwise, haha.
FYI, I've also had the Neumann KH 120a active studio monitors since 2013, and I'm still impressed with their performance, especially considering their diminutive size.
The KH 150 obviously improve on the KH 120 in every metric, and although I'd love to own them as well, I've already got a few other DIY loudspeakers that perform similarly.
I don't know that you could claim that the Neumann combo is better . More full range yes but I doubt the KH150 drivers are nearly as good ,they simply are not .@@matieuche
Hope to see you get your hands on the Ukkonen Floorstanders...
nice job always a pleasure to watch your videos
Hey, man, thank you!
Jeff Bagby Helios uses same tweeter with satori 9.5inch woofer and 10inch PR. I think that one will be best value if you want to do DIY.
I’ve had the opportunity to review those, but I have turned it down. Something just doesn’t sit right with me reviewing a speaker of his after his passing.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Because you know he will be standing right behind you with laser eyes pointed right at the back of your head. But if you turn around he will disappear, only the reappear the millisecond you turn your back again. Bagby takes no prisoners. Having said that, I desperately want to build a pair of his Spirit Winds.
Maybe you could review the new Helios TX version that Javad is working on. I would be interested to see that one...
@@matt996 the tweeter javad using in the new TX version is textreme one but it's not listed in Any website why?
Aww man, that “DONT THINK TWICE HOO!” In Billy Jean comes from so far left, it actually startled me the first time I heard it on a properly set up 2.1. That whole album sounds incredible. I know this is beside the point of the video, but had to mention.
I'm in the market for bookshelf speakers and love these, but 83.0dB is an issue. I'm about to pull the trigger on the Revel M126Be, but looking for another speaker for comparison. Any recommendations?
TLDR = 10:53 👌👌👌👍🤘 So, the only other 2 comparable speakers near this price, in your Top 5 of all-time list, are Wharfdale Linton 85($1500) and Revel F226BE($7700).
Great video as always, my top go to guy for home audio!
There are a lot of small high quality speaker manufacturers in Australia. VAF, Krix, Richter Audio, Osborn, etc. But in the same way us Aussies don't have the access to many US audio brands, US customers are missing out on some excellent Aussie products.
Adelaide "ascension" speakers for "budget" speakers, still seem decent using sb acoustics mostly .
Those speakers have a couple similar things going on to the Dutch and Dutch 8c. At the Florida Audio Expo, those D&D speakers were one of the two best speakers at the show by a good margin. $15k though….. but man they were beautiful sounding with some awesome technology both mechanical and electrical built in.
I'm not sure if you've seen it yet, but Erin also has a utoob video and written website review for the Dutch & Dutch 8C, and he praises them as well.
I'd love to hear a set. They cost too much for me to want to dish out on just online info.
Looks nice, this speaker shows hofmann’s iron law in effect. It is low sensitivity and impedance but has good bass in a small package. Physics are a b$tch.
Looks like a very nice speaker though with amazingly good tuning.
Great review Erin and good demonstration of the correlation between measured response linearity and perceived listening. Well done my man!!
Thank you kindly!
I'd love to compare them to my ATC SCM 19s, which are a similar cost and size.
I’m still trying to figure out how this channel doesn’t have a minimum 100k subs. Great work Erin.
It’s because I pay people not to subscribe. 😂😂😂😂😂
@@ErinsAudioCorner I'll unsubscribe for a check.
@@CC-xu2yz ✅
Not sure there are many subs that cost >$100k
If you do the math of the components the price of the Sointuva is incredibly low, i can't immagine how Alan March can afford to have such a low profit margin... All good for the customer. And by the way i just purchased a P262 amp and it was one of the best buying experience I had. Can't speak enough good about the kind service he provides to his customers. And by the way before using his amp I was considering that my loudspeakes (Glockenklang Acustic Art MK IV) where very bad on definition an hi frq performance, now I'm very happy with them, they are reborn.
Agreed regarding the retail price of these speakers relative to the cost of the raw drivers, a quality cabinet, and well-performing crossover.
And that's great to hear in regards to your new amp and Alan's customer service. Cheers!
Not to mention everything is currently 15% off for Feb; so yeah; the cost of cabinet makers and parts plus assembly; seems like not much room for gains. But idk. Maybe there are ways.
Being a manufacturer there would be bulk discount for components at least
Shure OEM prices are shure lower but still, I''m shure that March Audio price is more than onest and he doesn't hit the almost indicent margins like usually happens in the high end domain. For example a pair of Lyingdorf audio CUE-100 cost 21'000€ Vs 2'700€ for a couple of Sointuva, for what more? An ATM tweeter (maybe a little more expensive than the Satori) 3 legs (more sticks) and a Nordic (IKEA like) design?
@@athosroduner7797
Look at the small $10k+ 2-way Wilson Audio TuneTots for another comparison.
They DO put a lot of effort and proprietary design/materials into their enclosures...
But IME, I don't think that it actually contributes quite as much to their performance as the pricing and hype might suggest.
They do use top quality Scanspeak-sourced drivers, but given that just the two drivers per enclosure are being used, well, IDK, the price seems exorbitant for what equates to being just another small 2-way standmount.
But as a much larger company, they obviously have way more overhead and operating expenses to cover.
A lot of our determinations and rationality regarding price vs. performance and "value" are based on our perception of the apparent "prestige" of the brand.
But that doesn't always result in comparatively better real world performance versus less expensive options such as the speakers under review in this video.
"Bookshelf Stands" - isn't that an oxymoron?
Thanks for the like. I was wondering if anybody was going to get it.
Minimum impedance 3.4ohms and 83db sensitivity. Fair to say you need a 100W, high current output amplifier at minimum to handle these. 250W continuous power handling is encouraging though. I guess if you’re spending $4k on bookshelf speakers you can spend some money on amplification.
Dude, I'm really glad I didn't pay full price for my Ref1 Metas after seeing this review. They might be getting dirty looks if I had 😂
These look awesome and would probably be my only choice if I didn't already have the Kefs.
I know the price isn't comparable, but performance seems to be. How would you compare the Ref1m to these?
Oh, man, those Ref 1 Metas are INCREDIBLE.
I’d really like to put these side-by-side and compare them. But I don’t think we would be surprised if we preferred the KEF. And, of course, we probably should give that it is twice the price.
Anyway, you have nothing to regret with your purchase. I absolutely love that speaker. It’s one of my all-time favorites.
Comparing measurements, the Sointuva AWG has deeper bass, slightly more linear and less dynamic compression. The Reference 1 Meta had that wider radiating highs. They are very competitive imo, but the Sointuva AWG is less than half MSRP price, so the better value.
Thanks!
Oh, wow! Thank you!!
Erin, how would you compare these to the Mesanovic 65s? Is the cardioid feature of the Mesanovics worth the extra $1500 for mid/near field studio monitoring?
This strikes me as something to compare to the Philharmonic Audio HT Towers that are also in the $4 to $5K range. Both use the Purifi drivers. One is a tower with d'appolito midrange in a 3-way transmission line tower, while these are two ways with passive radiators.
the only dude i trust on youtube, can you do AVRs as well
Love your channel my man.
One speaker i would like to see tested by you is the german Econik FOUR. Looks very promising
Also this Sointuva linearity is impressive
an interesting (listening / data) comparison in sound to cost would be sierra 1 v2, ascend acoustics or the sierra LX
My set just arrived a couple days ago, I went with a matte black finish and I think they look amazing. I know some people say the woofer looks weird but I think it's fine.
I definitely like the sound, the extra dynamic range stood out to me fairly quickly. Maybe I'm not super discerning and I definitely have some nulls and modes in my room causing issues, so they maybe don't seem like a next-level upgrade over my previous set (The Focal Aria K2 906s) but in both cases I'm using Dirac room correction.
I was a little bit concerned about the low sensitivity, but ended up getting a matching P422 stereo amplifier from March Audio that has around 400W per channel, so I'm hoping that more than makes up for it.
I have somewhat ignored your advice though, as I have been using them with a subwoofer (the SVS SB-3000.)
I was after a very neutral but still passive bookshelf speaker and I was tossing up between this set, the KEF R3 Meta and the Focal Kanta No. 1 (which were all roughly in the same price range in my region.) I discounted the Focal as no measurements were available and I was not able to demo them in my own space. I liked the R3s, but settled on the Sointuva as I liked the idea of buying something made locally.
Definitely going to be my endgame speakers.
Damn, these look good! And with a passive XO, no less. I can hardly wait to see what will materialize when the Purifi tweeter goes from prototype to an actual available product. I think the proto in the Purifi "blog" may be the only thing I've seen that could top this from the midrange up.
Agreed.
@thomaslutro5560
For sure! I use several of the Purifi midwoofer and modbass drivers in both my home and car systems, and I've been patiently waiting for this Purifi tweeter ever since Lars Risbo hinted that one might be in the works.
But in the meantime, I have been very happy with the BlieSMa beryllium dome tweeters.
@@bbfoto7248 Yeah, the Bliesma is the bomb. I've heard those at a show in Norway. In a fully DSP controlled, xo and room correction, DIY system. I think the rest of the driver complement ws some of those Morel underhung motor carbon fiber mids (MTM), Acoustic elegance 15" woofers (four eac side?). and four SEAS L26ROY each side for the sub bass (the owner has a nuber of satelite dish sized woofers at home, more or less built into the room, and pretty impractical to haul off to a show.) No part of that system was less than amazing. Leaps and bounds above all the other systems, ranging from hifi prices to car prices to house prices.
And you've just got to love anyone who plays ABBA at a HiFi show. 😆
Erin,
Have you looked at the Fritz Carrera Be or his Purifi speakers?
Curious how these bespoke bookshelves from March Audio compare to Fritz's high-end stuff. Pricing is similar, too.
I was surprised that you were surprised at the surprising outcome. IMHO, it's good to know that those will not make my ears bleed while not needing a subwoofer.
Thanks Erin for an insightful review of a fine speaker. Wondering about the 7 degree above tweeter axis listening window. Was that experimentally determined, or spec'd by manufacturer?
Manufacturer told me. They had this speaker measured by the folks at Warkwyn beforehand as part of the design process and that’s how they came up with this info.
I was surprised to see such low sensitivity ratings. I'm not a speaker designer and would like to understand that the efficiency trade-off was for the bass extension? Also, how did they sound at lower listening volumes? Thanks.
Purifi spk16 protype looks like a big brother to this speakers with wider response all the way to 20k. They are working on a tweeter that will be used in that speaker. i think that one will be better competitor for this one.
Amazing speaker, but “Budget”?
HiFi bargain and budget are not same.
I didn’t say “budget”.
Understood. Like I replied to another commenter, I can’t think of any other passive speakers that have the frequency, bandwidth and load distortion that this speaker has. Certainly not in its size for sure.
Now, if we want to talk about active, powered speakers, of course, that’s a different story. The issue with those for me is that everyone of them except for the Dutch and Dutch 8C use DSP limiting. I don’t really like that feature.
As for tower speakers in this price range, I admittedly don’t have a lot of experience. I have measured some such as the JBL HDI-3800 and Revel 226Be. Neither of those extend as low as these (but they weren’t designed to, either).
This is my perspective of when I say HiFi value. I can only think of a few passive speakers that perform as well as this particular one and they are at least double the price. KEF Reference Meta 1 ($9k/pair) and JBL 4367 ($16k/pair, and huge).
If you have any examples of bookshelf, sized speakers that perform as well as these do at the same price, or less than I am all ears. Seriously.
Also, keep in mind of what I said in the title. A “HiFi bargain”. Many “HiFi“ speakers do not perform as well, but cost as much or more.
Worth every penny.
Sensitivity is 83db/2.83V @1m AT LESS THAN 4ohm. This makes it a seriously hard to drive speaker because as we know there's no free lunch when it comes to size vs bass response.. Amp cost should be seriously considered. Also, for EU customers this is euro 4K (shipping included) shipped from Australia before VAT, import tax and customs processing fees. That could easily bring its final price to >5K euro depending on individual country,, competing with many high-ish end european brands which offer local support and which can usually be had at a discount over their RRP. Having to ship back to Aus at one's expense in case anything's wrong with it, is a serious expense and hassle which should be taken into consideration. Having to buy blind is a huge minus too, at this level of pricing.
That tends to go for any speaker that has to cover from another country. If it's a distributed brand, you just get slapped with the cost straight up when purchasing. Eg EU brands sold in USA and vice versa
@@RennieAsh Yes, but one has to compare apples to apples. This is not a $4K speaker in the EU, it is not even a euro 4K speaker, it is a euro 5K+ speaker with all the added disadvantages, that was the point of my comment.
@@razisnyes, varies by country. Usually creator talks about things from the perspective of the country they're in.
It may suck to get them to your country but doesn't mean it's not good for other places. Same thing goes for all the free shipping bargain bin speakers in America - you pay double in aus and still have to pay shipping on top of it
Yo E Dizzle my buddy😊
This is a great speaker with those two excellent drivers. Did you give feedback to March Audio to ask them to improve the horizontal directivity to around 60 degree from 3kand up?
March Audio replied to this already in the comments section.
Nah. That’s a function of the waveguide so it’s already “baked in”.
Hi. As I mentioned in the original comments, there is a direct correlation between directivity "width" and how bright the speaker will sound (regardless of having a flat on axis response).
So you need to balance dispersion with the in room response to ensure it doesn't tip into bright and fatuiging.
This dispersion is dictated by the tweeter waveguide.
Any speakercdesign is a bunch of compromises and we beleive sacrificing a little dispersion width is worth doing to obtain the most neutral and non fatuiging timbre.
Would you describe these as having a "big" sound? (referencing your video from a couple of weeks ago). Are these great speakers period, or are these great "bookshelf" speakers? To me, once you add a stand, bookshelf or floor standing speakers take up the same amount of space, so I'm looking for what are just good speakers. PS. Thank you for the great reviews as always!
They're great speakers period
it prob depends on what your needs are / what you care about most. what your ear height will be most often. will there be a sub. how loud you need to get. etc. per room size. tons of smaller speakers do really well.
They are basically measuring as perfect as a bookshelf can measure.
But I do feel conflicted about it.
It are all of the shelf part in a pretty but very simple box.
This could be a DIY build for the wekend.
I like it when a speaker company does something I couldn't do myself, KEF blades, ancora, B&W nautulus, etc.
it does what is designed to to very well.
but if i want a March Audio speakers i would have wished for a MTM with those active drivers, proper sealed cabinet.
maybe that would cost about the same and gain more benefits and loose some low bass if you do not have dsp.
but if you have dsp would it do the same bass extension or better? at least it can play louder with two mid woofers, that means less distortion.
Any thoughts on this vs KEF Reference 1? You mention some speakers you like more, but they cost more. What are some of those? Thanks!
I have some Purifi-equipped bookshelf speakers from Buchardt, and my impression is that other speakers of the same size seem to "add" something to the sound (maybe some reverb? longer decay of transients? distortion?) while the Purifi drivers sound more "pure" (forgive the pun). As if the Purifi drivers played in a less reverberant room.
Someone else agreed to that description (they compared Klipsch RP-600Mii with Nuchardt A10).
Did you hear something the March Audio speakers that goes along the above description as well?
I'm not saying this "purity" would automatically better or worse, it just struck me as an attribute only heard on these Purifi drivers.
I try to care only about how speakers sound, and not how they look, but I just can't get past those woofers that look like a puppy chewed on them. I don't think I could own these or the Buchardts that have the same woofer. Thanks for your videos- I like your approach and delivery and appreciate the information you give.
@stevenbauer1730
I've heard several people with this same strong viewpoint regarding how they just can't get past the odd look of these midwoofers due to their unique or "funky" surround design. I find that interesting and actually a bit amusing (now).
I have to admit that I found it a bit odd at first as well.
However, once you actually understand and appreciate the brilliant and purposeful design of this surround from a technological and acoustics engineering perspective, this aspect of their design really grows on you, and I actually visualize/imagine this technology in action while sitting down and listening to them, LOL. :P
The interface or intersection of the surround to the edge of the cone and the surround's constantly changing shape or profile during the +/- excursion of the cone on traditional cone-based loudspeaker transducers has always created some acoustic anomalies and detrimental effects, and it has just been an accepted limitation of cone/surround-based drivers.
And these detrimental effects only worsen as the SPL and excursion increases...i.e. the louder we play our speakers.
But the brilliant designers of the Purifi drivers finally came up with a unique and very effective surround profile and design that virtually eliminates these negative effects, and in effect the surround for all intents and purposes becomes "invisible" to the sound waves that are propagating and eminating from the driver's cone.
With this unique surround design, the size and shape of the cone is effectively more consistent and is no longer constantly changing as the cone moves in & out. This greatly improves linearity and accuracy.
This unique surround profile is truly a major leap forward in what is otherwise age old driver design, and IMO is a true work of art to an acoustic/transducer engineer.
And IMPE, this, along with some of the other unique technology in the motor design of these Purifi drivers is readily apparent when listening to them. It's NOT a gimmick.
Oh, and there is of course the possibility to add speaker grills to these in order to hide the offending drivers from view. :P But I'm sure they might have their own detrimental effects
Cool… It’s look like a Buchardt A10 in a less pretty cabinet, that doesn’t go as low (25hz), and don’t include amp, dac and room correction for roughly the same price ;)
What’s the Buchardt do at high volume? Specifically, is there a limiter? My experience with powered speakers is they all use a limiter to decrease bass as volume increases. The only exception I’m aware of is the D&D 8c.
Here, I reviewed the Buchardt A500. Scroll toward the bottom and look at the output linearity/compression test. See how regulated the bass is even at 86dB?
erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/buchardt_a500/
@@ErinsAudioCorner you are right, A10 are not for loud music BUT they sound freaking amazing @80db! If you want more SPL, cut the bass and add sub. It is fun to have more SPL but for achieving that with the March Audio, you need a 2000$ amp so you are at 6000$ and you still need a sub.
@@ErinsAudioCorner and next time you review Buchardt, remember to hipass them @ 40-50hz to compare to other speakers (just load the S400 mastertuning). By the way I have also the Lintons and love them.the A10 are better in every way. Even the inside DAC is better than my mojo 2 that I use with the Lintons.
I was interested in the A10 too. I think the tweeter solutions will sound different as the A10 uses a smaller diameter tweeter.
Nice review, thanks. How do they compare to the older Version? Whats the difference between the old and the new Aluminium woofer? Audible Changes? Would be nice to know maybe for diy. Greetings 👋
Can you review the Present Day Production MUM monitors?
Considering using these for monitors in a treated room
When Erin calls $4k pr speakers Budget speakers 😳😳....... Makes me laugh. I mean yeah compared to $80k yeah but everything is relative. I'm sure that he is really just trying to express the "value" proposition but that certainly isn't a budget speaker for me! LoL
Bargain =/= budget
Off the Wall is so much better than Thriller. Objectively speaking. I've measured them.
Yep, me too.
My nostalgic preference aligns with Off the Wall.
It changed people.
There was an existing clash between disco and everything else.
I'm mean disco sucks, right?
Off the Wall converted Molly Hatchet fans, Led Zeppelin hardliners ... it was killer, so infectious, punchy sound, hit after hit.
There was no denying it.
Muscle cars w/Pioneer Supertuners were playing MJ's Off the Wall, off 8 tracks far and wide.
'79, the peak of music releases.
I'd put '79's releases up against any year ... it's remarkable.
When you say you measure them, are you referring to response or dynamic range? For me it’s not necessarily even about either of those. It’s more about the layering and effects that are on thriller. I grew up with Michael Jackson so I’m very familiar with all of his music, including His and his brothers. Thriller is a stable for me for a few reasons. But I do enjoy off the wall a lot as well.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Of course I didn't measure them, was a joke, thank you for making me explain it. I feel like Thriller is pop music while Off the Wall is just good soul/funk music. Feels more authentic and black.
@@zergbonghell, how do you think I feel?… because now I have to explain that people do actually use tools to measure spectral density, response, polar energy and dynamic range of music tracks. 😅
That’s what I thought you were serious. 🤦♂️
@@zergbong That was before his transition to white.
Anyone who wants these for Half Price - yes click bait title, but Helios Kit from Madisound is half price, has the same tweeter, has SB Satori 9.5 inch woofer and 10inch PR. Satori, while perhaps not Purifi, is not too far off. Erin's description could apply very closely to my experience with the Helios. You would have to be able to build the box yourself. It is approx 1.25 cubic feet internal volume, so larger than most other bookshelves. From the description, I am guessing Helios bass is at least as good if not better. Good luck!
@ron5493
Agreed that Jeff Bagby's Helios is an excellent DIY speaker. For the money, they are difficult to match if you can DIY.
I built Jeff's KAIROS which is another excellent design that punches well above its price point, but unfortunately had to sell them when downsizing, but heard a friend's Helios.
But from personal experience with both, the Purifi midwoofer and midbass drivers are another level above the Satori line in both midbass and midrange quality when properly implemented, albeit at increased cost.
I really hope you get your hands on some ATC speakers (at least scm 50 (a)sl). They claim +-80° horizontal dispersion and i'd really like to see that in your measirements.
I'm building an mtm tower using those Purifi woofers, and maybe the Bliesma T34b tweeters. I'm concerned about how high those woofers can play.
Aluminium needs a notch filter, paper version maybe you could get away with it. Probably the crossover at up to 2.5k depending on slope.
The original design for the Sointuva was actually using a t34b I think. Crossed at 1600Hz
Also, PLEASE take care of your hearing. We need your golden ears! 😋
So purifi magic. Very Low sensivity and narrow vertical response are no for me. But love that frequenccy response. I can buy 1 r3 meta plus Rel t9x subwoofer with that money, what is your opinion are they equal in room response? edit:rel
I’m not familiar with that particular subwoofer. But if it’s a best case scenario, then I would probably go the subwoofer and Kef route with the appropriate crossover.
If you’re looking for a bookshelf, speaker, that can pretty much play full range, though, this speaker is probably your best bed that I’m aware of today.
About ready to buy the KEF Reference 1 Meta. How do these compare and then how do these compare at less than half the price. Thanks!
Personally, I'd go with the KEF.
$4500 not $4000. In Canada it's $5400. It's not a bargain if you live in reality and I own 6 figure customs.
$3800 USD right now. Currently 15% off
3 dB of sensitivity “lost” in crossover? to smoothing???
In 2.83 Volt*1m, the speaker itself is 83.0 dB
While the drivers are -
The PTT6.5W04-NAA-07 (from Purifi’s datasheet) is 86.3 dB
(The Satori TW29BNWG-4 is far higher at 97 dB!)
Baffle step.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Of course. Thank you 👍🏼
This right here is supremely the greatest thing that has happened to passive bookshelf speakers. Theyre what i plan to endgame
I think you're going to have to expand on that "value" comment, Erin. A $4k price point includes some pretty serious competition, including many floorstanders and active speakers.
Understood. Like I replied to another comer, I can’t think of any other passive speakers that have the frequency, bandwidth and load distortion that this speaker has. Certainly not in its size for sure.
Now, if we want to talk about active, powered speakers, of course, that’s a different story. The issue with those for me is that everyone of them except for the Dutch and Dutch 8C use DSP limiting. I don’t really like that feature.
As for tower speakers in this price range, I admittedly don’t have a lot of experience. I have measured some such as the JBL HDI-3800 and Revel 226Be. Neither of those extend as low as these (but they weren’t designed to, either).
This is my perspective of when I say HiFi value. I can only think of a few passive speakers that perform as well as this particular one and they are at least double the price. KEF Reference Meta 1 ($9k/pair) and JBL 4367 ($16k/pair, and huge).
If you have any examples of bookshelf, sized speakers that perform as well as these do at the same price, or less than I am all ears. Seriously.
Also, keep in mind of what I said in the title. A “HiFi bargain”. Many “HiFi“ speakers do not perform as well, but cost as much or more.
Great review Erin, and, yeah, they are on my short list. Inasmuch as I already have two SVS SB 2000's, I would probably cross them over around 100 hz and use DLBC to set the crossover. I'm also in a small room (12' x 15'), so I think my Purifi Eval 1, which the Nad is based on, would be quite adequate at 135 WPC into 8 ohms. They would also do double duty as a 2+2 for stereo, and the L-R in a 5.1 home theater. Don't think I would be wasting my money that way, but I would like to see how the Sierra LX's stack up against them.
Any thoughts on how they compare with the Mesanovic CDM 65? What are the respective strengths and weaknesses of each?
Again, great review. You seem to get so many of these cutting edge designs to review, so congrats on that.
I have a pair of the Mesanovic Model 2 ribbon microphones in my home studio and can't recommend them highly enough. I'd definitely love to try his monitors as well. Can't imagine they'd be anything but excellent.
Funny you mentioned Thriller. Are you referring to the song or album? I'm 10 years older than you and remember watching the debut of the Thriller video. It was amazing as a kid to see a mini movie as a video. MJ dominated everything then. I have the MOFI One Step of the album. I couldn't believe the things I could hear that I didn't even know existed before. That entire album is more complex than most people realize.
Hey, would it be possible to get some photos or videos of the product you're discussing? Maybe you could do some voiceover. I know Google exists, but that would be a more interesting and useful video. Cheers 👍
Both actually. It’s hard for me to say for sure, but one of my favorite songs off of that is human nature. I just love that soundscape that it creates. Which saying that out loud, now I feel really weird. 😂😂
@@ErinsAudioCorner hahaha, we won't tell if you don't tell. 😂
@erin absolutely love using Thriller to reveal how a speaker performs, its an amazing track!
You need to find a way to get Buchardt to sent you a pair of A10’s. It’s basically this speaker with DSP…borderline magic.
And Sun Audio Purified 4, which leaves the choice of DSP and amps to the user, thus outboard solution. Purifi woofer and Bliesma tweeter. All very nice options to choose from.
Thanks for the review Erin. At the price point I would understand lots of reluctance regarding these speakers. When you say they beat tower speakers are they beating lots of towers at that price ?
It's about a great tonality ranking correct ? Shows 7.3 at spinorama. I guess I have to find a place where I can listen to them to get an understanding of what the money buys.
Many of us don't want to get too far on the wrong side of diminishing returns.
With a sub the March shares a second place at spinorama, very good indeed.
Worth every penny.
Hi Erin! Have you heard Taga harmony Tav 607 5.0 speakers + Taga harmony Tsw 212se? How it sounds?
I have not.
@ErinsAudioCorner
Nice to see these being tested and highlighted again. :)
So, after having reviewed these, would you choose these or the Mofi SourcePoint 8? ;)
The SourcePoint 8 are roughly $1,200 less expensive and the MoFi include the stands. And that savings would allow enough money for a decent subwoofer to be added (if so desired).
I'm guessing that aesthetically you might prefer the Mofi SourcePoint 8 and the draw of a good concentric driver design.
But what about in terms of pure sound quality and enjoyment of the music you love to listen to on a daily basis?
The bass on these is definitely better. But you are right; aesthetically I prefer the MoFi.
@@ErinsAudioCorner
Thanks, mate. Yeah, we each have our own personal preferences in regards to aesthetics. But from my own personal experience using the Purifi drivers, it's really hard to imagine achieving better bass and midbass performance, as well as the fantastic SQ of their midrange, of course.
But I also have a pair of the Kali IN-8 and can appreciate what good concentric drivers bring to the table.
I'm also really interested in and looking forward to the release of the Purifi tweeters. But for now, I'm over the moon with the performance and SQ of the BlieSMa beryllium tweeters.
Those drivers are v expensive proper high end. A bargain indeed
What is the crossover freq/slopes on these? I can't that on their website.
Impressive result for passive speakers. I would very much See the Ukkonen floorstanding being measured, it seems those definitely don’t need a subwoofer.
I thought they would have been sent off to be measured at the same time as Sointuva (different people than Erin). Not sure why the measurements are taking so long !
I’m told they are currently at Warkwyn for measurement.
11:48 - " Da strippers "
I like this review =)
Awesome review !!!!! 😊. I love the amount of subjectivity. Nice reference to being “taken back in time”. 😅
Thanks! 😁
bargain and 4000 bucks dont mix for me. thanks for your review though.
Understood. Like I replied to another commenter, I can’t think of any other passive speakers that have the frequency, bandwidth and load distortion that this speaker has. Certainly not in its size for sure.
Now, if we want to talk about active, powered speakers, of course, that’s a different story. The issue with those for me is that everyone of them except for the Dutch and Dutch 8C use DSP limiting. I don’t really like that feature.
As for tower speakers in this price range, I admittedly don’t have a lot of experience. I have measured some such as the JBL HDI-3800 and Revel 226Be. Neither of those extend as low as these (but they weren’t designed to, either).
This is my perspective of when I say HiFi value. I can only think of a few passive speakers that perform as well as this particular one and they are at least double the price. KEF Reference Meta 1 ($9k/pair) and JBL 4367 ($16k/pair, and huge).
If you have any examples of bookshelf, sized speakers that perform as well as these do at the same price, or less than I am all ears. Seriously.
Also, keep in mind of what I said in the title. A “HiFi bargain”. Many “HiFi“ speakers do not perform as well, but cost as much or more.
Bargain doesn't necessarily relate to a $ number in and if itself. You could get a pair of focal grand utopia for $4k and I'm sure $4k and bargain would mix then.
Thanks!
Great review, many thanks!
For the vertical dispersion, do you think a listener could turn the speaker upside down?
For example, if someone has good 24/26inch stands and wants to keep them...
I don't see why not, but perhaps that's a question for the designer and manufacturer in the "pinned" comment at the top.
Get a protractor and draw to scale of such stands, tweeter height and 7⁰ angle downwards; you might find that you can only have a really low couch.
The tweeter will need to be above your ears when upside down
They have purfi woofers they have a really good Xmax and tons of none distorted bass and the tweeters look like berrilum maybe scan speak. The raw drivers themselves are very expensive and out of my budget right now even though I have been drooling over them.
Yeah no kidding, raw drivers sums to over $3000 by themselves. March isnt making a huge margin on these.
@@dexi9814 exactly. I just checked on the 6.5 and they are actually on sale for $500 a piece never mind the passive radiators , tweeter is probably $285 and then the crossover and cabinet. I have built my own speakers and they cost me around $1000 just the drivers and crossovers and my friends will be like you could sell them for like $200 after I put a 100 hrs to design, test and build them. That's what people don't get
It's an SB acoustics beryllium dome with aluminium waveguide
Erin, i'm planning to buy Audio Physic high end bookshelves. But with my denon AVR the crossover will be set at 80hz. Is it pointless to buy expensive speakers when using 80hz crossover?
If you’re using sensitivity means, then, they will naturally roll off a bit earlier so you have to use a subwoofer. But the benefit you get is a higher sensitivity. That’s just an example though. I would never say that crossing over at 80 Hz entirely defeats the purpose of using more expensive speakers. There other qualities that make them expensive. And this particular case, however, it’s nearly full range and I feel like if you plan to buy this speaker and cross it over at 80 Hz, then you can find other options that cost less.
thanks Erin! love your channel
I'm not crazy about what Denon does with their presets when someone wants to connect a sub - 80Hz and nothing else
Hi Erin,
Allow me a question with your review of the March Audio Sointuva AWG, you have spent much of the video mentioning how good they sound, their low resonance, their extremely good linearity, their great estimated response in the room, the very low distortion, Using a SW the distortion at 3% drops even further.
When you mention the 80 Hz cut-off thinking about a SW, you say spending USD $4,000 on some bookshelf in a room, you do not recommend it, it is preferable to buy some speakers, whether other bookshelf speakers or some tower spekars plus the SW.
This is where I don't understand you, do you really think that cheap tower or floor speakers can generate all the characteristics that you have praised for products less than USD $ 1000?
I don't remember many speakers, I think less than fingers on one hand, that have recorded such results in your tests and in your listening.
Do you have any references of USD $1K or even USD $2K tower speakers that measure and sound as good from 80Hz to 20KHz?
If you know them, please tell me what they are and I will buy you a SW.
Anyway, very good review.
I think what Erin was getting at is, IF you specifically want to stick with Bookshelf size loudspeakers that play nearly Full Range for all intents and purposes without the necessity of using a separate subwoofer, AND you already have a suitable high-quality amplifier and electronics with enough power to drive these to your preferred listening levels, then there are very few other passive loudspeakers (especially at this price point) which will get the job done without other compromises.
A potential option for similar size standmount/bookshelf speakers which also perform extremely well might be the KEF R3 Meta at nearly half the price.
BUT you will 100% need to combine the R3 Meta with an equally good subwoofer to even begin to approach the low frequency performance and extension that the Sointuva AWG achieve on their own.
IF you don't already have a good amplifier and/or other suitable high-quality electronic components to drive these or other high-quality passive loudspeakers, a potentially comparable option for just slightly less overall cost might be the Neumann KH 150 active studio monitors, which use built-in DSP and amplifiers, and their response can be adjusted via the DSP so as to be tailored for your specific in-room response as well as personal preferences depending on their placement in the room.
HOWEVER, as Erin Notes, 95% of active studio monitors on the market at comparable prices usually have built-in power limiters that reduce the lower frequency bass output as you turn the speakers up to higher levels, whereas the passive Sointuva AWG do not have this limitation and might "scale up" better on the low end at higher listening levels as long as you have the necessary power to drive them.
Admittedly, for many people, a good bookshlelf "satellite + subwoofer" loudspeaker system may make more sense and be more cost effective.
But again, IF you Don't want to use a Separate Subwoofer AND Don't want anything larger than Bookshelf/Standmount size speakers, these are one of the very few that he feels will "get the job done" properly with fantastic SQ.
Aren't there thing like arendal speakers which offer a large chunk of the performance if using an 80hz cut-off?
Maybe not the full low distortion etc
@@RennieAsh
Possibly. Unfortunately haven't had the opportunity to hear any of the Arendals. :/
But like you (I think), I have quite a bit of experience with higher end DIY loudspeaker designs and raw drivers, and have personally used these same and other Purifi drivers in multiple systems in both my home and car setups.
And IMPE, the lifelike midrange and midbass quality and detail that can be achieved when properly implementing these Purifi drivers is second to none (except for possibly my cousin's outrageously expensive Børresen Model 03 floorstanders!), and that includes having used other extremely high-end drivers such as the Scanspeak Revelator and Illuminator, SEAS, SB Acoustic Textremes, Eton HEX/Symphony II, Dynaudio Esotar, Audio Technology Cquenze, Hiquphon, etc.
One of the few lines that I haven't tried, but would definitely like to try, are the high-end Accuton ceramic and diamond drivers. But they're just too bloody rich for my blood, and I can't get discounted pricing for them like I can for most of the others.
I will say from personal experience that the BlieSMa beryllium dome tweeters and dome midrange drivers are truly EXCEPTIONAL, and are an excellent match to the lifelike qualities of these Purifi drivers, with expensive, but not exorbitant prices considering their performance.
To be sure, there are heaps and heaps of good loudspeakers available more than ever before, so finding the needles in the haystack are even that much more difficult and potentially costly.
Luckily, Erin and a few others have begun to provide excellent data and real-world observations backed up with heaps of personal experience in order to help isolate and expose some of the best options in nearly every category and price bracket...as well as many of the not so good options. And for that I'm truly grateful @ErinsAudioCorner
BB Foto got it.
@@bbfoto7248i was eyeing off the hifi compass purifi bliesma waveguide speaker, but they never seemed to get anywhere with deciding if they are going to sell that design . Maybe one day i could fiddle with such drivers, but also easier when someone has already measured and designed the crossover :)
Hi Erin.. I think a better test track for bass will be “Doin It Right” still by Daft Punk. Easier to hear deficiencies in a speaker .
That's definitely a great track.
"Make Us Stronger" by Ghost Rider or "Acoustic Crumpet" & "The Last Rainforest" by DJ Smilk are excellent as well.
I really like "Dub in a Time of Cholera" by Dub Colossus.
"Boxenkiller" by Martin Hess & Cyril Lutzelschwab from the Focal/JM Lab Disque du Demonstration No. 4.
"Testa di Basso" by Saturnino on the Microprecison Test CD or New CD Picaso sampler disc.
But I also prefer good recordings with acoustic upright double bass. Just about anything from Brian Bromberg, Ray Brown Trio (The Real Blues), or Nenad Vasilic are good.
The separate upright bass and drum solos in "Devil May Care" from Cecile McLorin Salvant's "Dreams and Daggers" album is excellent.
Try Lhasa de Sela's "My Name" from her "Living Road" album, both for the bass in the intro and the percussion imaging later in the track.
Jacques Loussier's "Little Fugue in G Minor BWV 578" from the "Encore!" album for the attack/impact and decay of the floor tom drum...and all around excellent test track.
Prokofiev's "Bass Drum Concerto - Movement 4: Allegro Brilliante (may speed)" Joby Burgess on Hyperion Records.
There's a short but excellent track (# 5) titled, "Classical Bass Authority" on the "NuForce Test CD" that is incredibly revealing.
But the primary track I use for testing bass accuracy, detail, and impact is Track # 4 " Acoustic Percussion Ensemble" from the Stockfisch Records "Are You Authentic? AYA Acoustic Audio Check" SACD.
That SACD or Vinyl LP also includes other excellent tracks for testing all specific aspects of a loudspeaker system.
There are a lot I'm forgetting at the moment, but that's a start.
@@bbfoto7248 i will try to search these tracks on my streaming service
Is there a correlation between speaker sensitivity and speakers that sound good at lower listening volume (65-70dB)?
The truth is that most of the time there is a correlation, but it’s not always the case.
I get asked this question quite a lot, with regard to both speakers and amplifiers.
I think there is a bit of a general misunderstanding about why kit sounds different at low volumes.
The kit doesn't fundamentally sound different at lower volumes. However, your perception of sound certainly does change. You are less sensitive to low and high frequencies at low volumes. Hence the Loudness controls of old (out of fashion now).
Google Fletcher Munsen curves.😊
The "HIFI Bargain" seems like kind of a strech, the Buchardt Anniversary 10 perform really similar to this speaker because it also make use of the Purifi woofers, it reaches 25 hz -6 db with a smooth frequency response but with a wider dispersion and its a active speaker while costing almost the same (€3.800)
What happens to it at high SPL? Does the limiter decrease bass output? How much? This is an important distinction for me.
@@ErinsAudioCorner The review is on ASR but the compresion is about 2 db at 96 db with the Buchardt and it has higher distortion because it reaches lower frequecny in a sealed cabinet, so its kind of a trade off. Also the fact that already has his owm amplifier while costing almost the same should be making it a much better value than this speaker. The March Audio Sointuva AWG performs really good but it doesn't seem close to begin the "Ultimate HIFI bargain"
@@danielezzet8870 I believe you have to put his superlative into context: best bargain of the speakers he has heard. Also, he did say in a comment that he doesn't care for limiters in active speakers. Plus, he said if viewers know of a better bargain then comment. When he hears them, he will be able to judge whether the increased distortion keeps them from trouncing these speakers.
👍 TY!
Great review, thank you.
Just absolutely believable what you say.
Maybe you can give me a tip with your experience:
What do you think is the best home theater setup for a small 15x12x8 foot room (Floorstandig / wall-mount) at a reasonable price?
WHAT "reasonable" price? What everyone considers reasonable is different.
You are right.
I was thinking about ~ 8000$ for a 5.2.4 setup.
@@a.s.5280are you on reddit? I'd say RUclips comments is a bit constrained
Erin, could you possibly mention whether these "sound good at low volume", or whether that even matters to you?
It does. They do. :)
Thanks @@ErinsAudioCorner
I just looked on Madison sound and 6.5 purfi woofers are on sale right now and I wouldn't use a subwoofer with them because the purfi woofers have such non distorted bass . Any subwoofer is just going to not keep up.
@BostonMike68
I wouldn't go so far as to make that statement.
I use several of the purify drivers in both my home and car audio systems, but there are plenty of excellent and very capable low distortion subwoofer drivers on the market, such as many of the Acoustic Elegance models made by Jon Janowitz, or the 13" Scanspeak 32W/4878T00, 10" SEAS L26ROY, JBL GTi 15 MK II, and several other larger subwoofers produced by very well-regarded pro audio driver manufacturers.
IIRC, Erin is actually using one of the larger Acoustic Elegance IB18 subwoofers in his current Tesla car audio system, and had previously used the JL Audio 12W6v3 in a sealed enclosure in his former car audio system. ;)
In addition, we are much less sensitive to Distortion in the lower bass frequency region compared to the midrange and treble frequencies, i.e. ~3% is the generally accepted audible distortion limit for midrange and treble, while ~10% distortion is the generally accepted limit for subwoofers.
But like any other driver, it's all about how well each subwoofer driver is implemented into the final loudspeaker design or system and its crossover to the other drivers.
Due to the major influence the room has on the lower bass frequencies, IME it's incredibly important to be able to dial-in and tailor the specific response and output of one or more subwoofers for each specific system.
As a quick reference, download the Owner's Manual for any of the Neumann professional studio subwoofer models and read all that they have to say regarding the importance of good subwoofer implementation.
@@bbfoto7248 no I agree there are definitely some good fast subwoofers out there. I actually have a 12" Dayton Reference HE with a 15 reference passive radiator that I put together and run with a XLR crown amp and for the money it's not a slouch. I built it manly for music. I was just thinking how most people have a home theater subwoofer. But I guess if you can spend $4000 on a pair of speakers and you don't do diy you probably would get a REEL or something.
@@bbfoto7248 thanks for the information. I'm always up to learn something new.
You can just use the sub at lower frequencies of you're concerned.
Thank you Erin!
Impressive results...I don't think "budget" can be applied to a pair that costs $4k regardless of the performance. I don't know that I could ever pull the trigger at that price...pretty sure $4k+ is an amount that results in infinite decision paralysis for me.
Was the term "budget" used? HiFi bargain can have a diff. Subjective meaning I think. Its all relative.
I've got price limit creep happening. Will have to stop it lest I end up wasting money on too many new items in the long term.
Very interesting review. This reminds me a lot of the new Buchardt speakers with the Purify drivers. I had never even heard of this brand so bringing it to my attention is appreciated.
Considering getting one of those, or D&D 8c. Still have to wait for other things.
Yes, d&d 8c you have to wait for extra cash XD it's a fair chunk to get some extra bass and cardioid . To be fair they have amps but still
@@RennieAsh yup, but d&d seems to be a really god option if you just want to listen to music and stoop thinking about switching amps/dacs/speakers (aka audiophilia nervousa) I've been there (with headphones) and never want to go back to that sad state.
I'm here for music not equipment
Curious that the compression test result look worse than the previous version you reviewed back in 2022. Is it a compromise for better neutrality?
I noticed that as well but it's hard to say exactly what the cause is. The driver is different; being an aluminum cone version. Maybe there's something that's "different enough" to make this difference.
I am assuming the AWG version can get lower and the trade off is a bit higher compression but I couldn't find the F3 and F10 numbers for the previous version on your website. Hope you can take a look at the measurement of previous version. Thanks in advance!!
You can get them from the graph easily enough. It'll be different in room anyway
@@ErinsAudioCornerthe driver listed is the "W" aluminium version with less coil excursion than the previous version with the "X" paper cone.
Unless there a typo and they are using the "X" aluminium version
A little off topic but have you heard the mofi thriller that released a year or two ago?
I have. I purchased the hybrid CD. I actually purchased two copies. One is still sealed.
@@ErinsAudioCorner
Hey mate! I'll trade you straight across for your used copy of the MoFi Thriller album for a certain kick@ss 7-disc box set compilation of 80's tunes titled, "Like, Omigod! The 80's Pop Culture Box (Totally!)". ;-)
I knows yous gots my email! :-P
I believe it's difficult to justify 4 grand for a bookshelf speaker. Especially when the tweeters and drivers are not even their own.
Symphonic Line/Odyssey uses ScanSpeak
Wilson uses Scanspeak
March Audio uses SB Acoustics
Others use Dayton or VIFA and the list goes on.
Many manufacturers spend a fortune on R&D and make very well built cabinets. PMC and Monitor Audio come to mind.
However, diminishing returns really start at around $1000 or so.
So when the PSB built the Stratus mini (circa mid 90's) & pretty much reaches the limit of what can be done with a 5" woofer and years of experience while using Ottawa's anechoic chamber for roughly $1000, there's no way an online company that's only a few years old can justify $4k.
Not to mention, most who can afford this 'bargain' aren't 20 years old with great hearing. They're 40+ years old and lucky if they can actually hear much above 4kz.
To be clear, not at all saying they're snake oil. That's for $400 fuses and $10k power cords. Simply saying very overpriced.
Considering the younger generation are more into headphones nowadays, the high end speaker/amp companies seem to actually want to price themselves out of the market. This topic has been covered by 'audio gurus' at open forums at audio shows like Axpona and RMAF for a few years now, yet no one seems to be learning or adjusting.
I have a hard time believing that particular speaker you were talking about performs as well as this one. But I’m happy to be proven wrong. The frequency bandwidth and low distortion of this speaker are unparalleled at its price point and size, as far as I’m aware. In fact, I can’t think of any passive speakers that extend this low that can get as loud as they do, that are the same price or cheaper. The only ones I can think of offhand that do are much more expensive.
As for the part about most 40-year-olds can’t hear above 4kHz… I’d like to see the research on that. 14-15kHz shows up in a quick google search for middle-aged men. Maybe you have a typo?
@@ErinsAudioCorner A simple phone app test will put the lie to no 4kHz after 40. I'm 63 and have done all kinds of bad things to my hearing in my lifetime, but I can still hear to 9k, which apparently is typical for someone my age.
Judging from the components used, I would say they're not overpriced.
Lol you should look at the price of all the drivers used and the wood construction and the man hours and you'd see these are under priced... If these were made by some snobby old man audiophile brand like B&W, it would have cost $20,000
@@CC-xu2yzsame age, 12K. Makes me sad but now I feel better😅
QC problems have been well documented before, just saying
I remember that. I believe it was also shown the guy who did that test messed some things up on his own, too. Was a bad look for all parties.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Not just testing but build as well. Anyway happens across all industries
Wow that looks like a dsp speaker.