The Japanese have a practice of repairing shattered items using gold so they're more beautiful than before. I bet anything that's essentially what Radagon was trying to do by "repairing" the Elden Ring. The idea definitely fits
Marika was caught when she was questioning and plotting against the erdtree. Whilst being caught she didn’t want to go down empty handed so she destroyed the elden ring. Which lead to radagon having to mend the elden ring
I had always gotten the impression that the Elden Ring shattered into the Great Runes, and once they were available, the demigods fought over the those pieces.
@@alprem3455 The intro is an oversimplification of something that took place over a thousand years. That isn't evidence of anything. It is MEANT to be vague and misleading. Radan has been wandering his aren for a thousand years or so and the siblings were in hibernation until Miquella was taken and died from being broken open early. Look at everything the demi-gods show you in their actions surrounding the deaths and tragedies of the gods.
@@alprem3455 Also, the shattering, murder of Godwin, and the ravaging war that took place outside of that kingdom are all further evidence that this all wasnt something that happened instantly. Otherwise destined death would not be so heavily guarded by devoted and crazed loyal beast clergymen
If you talk to Melina at one of the churches she gives you a quote of Marika. It goes something like "Queen Marika gave the grate runes to her children then she told them that only the strongest will achieve greatness and the rest will be forgotten". Which implies that she handed each great rune to each demigod.
In my head the smaller runes you find to use to level are smaller shards from the Elden Ring and explains why everyone and everything drops them they were scooped up by lesser beings(npcs) with the great runes being ones from the major story bosses who have shards
I have the impression that the great runes could exists separately with the Elden Ring still remaining whole, like when Radagon gifted Rennala with the great rune of the Unborn or when Marika plucked out destined death from it. Maybe Marika gave the great runes to her children long before the shattering as a sign of their status as demigods, for example Morgott's rune says that it is proof that he was of the golden lineage and the monarch of Leyndell, but when the time came and she decided to shatter the Elden Ring, the great runes got some special properties that boosted the demigod's power or the balance that existed before disappeared, driving them "mad" and starting the war.
This does seem to be the case, as in the Elden Ring existing while the smaller Great Runes also existing separately from it. Even as we are running around collecting the Great Runes we know that Marika is within the Erdtree and is containing what remains of the Elden Ring. We don't repair (mend) it until after the battle with Radagon and the Elden Beast, and we don't even need all the Great Runes in our possession to do so. The way I personally understood them to function is as a set of rules, like a rule book or lines of code. The rule set can be added to or have rules removed from it, though doing so requires great will and power as seen by the acts and stories of those who grants the player a Mend Rune and the immense power the player achieves in their travels. The act of removing them is seen with Marika's removal of the "Rune of Death". Even people such as Miquella and Ranni who wished to be rid of the Elden Ring has only ever partially succeeded through the use of it. Ranni is implied to change the "rules" in such a way that they cannot be meddled with as easily or directly as they have in the past, tying it more to all beings rather than one or a handful. While Miquella seems to be attempting to entirely replace it by "remaking" it in his image, using its power as the foundation. However they are all adding or removing to it. Changing it, abiding by it. They cannot do anything the rules don't allow for. Though being rules in the most vague sense means that you can play around them. Such as the "Rune of Death". Its removal caused the people not to live forever, but to be returned to the Erdtree and "channeled" through it into new life. In other words it seems to have only really removed the idea of "moving on". The Rune of Death was either kept by Marika because she couldn't destroy it or she didn't want to and kept it around for unknown reasons or as an insurance. Point is, the "Elden Ring" acts more like a book on "Laws of Reality" and not just some vestige of power. Marika's act of removing the Rune of Death might be inspired by Freyja's act of gaining the promise of all things to not harm Baldur as a means to keep him from dying. Marika might have tried to do the same to avoid the death of her children, but when someone then stole the Rune of Death and used its power to kill her children she knew that it was a fools errand. Though it might also have been done for any numerous other reasons.
@@lukecetion From what I have seen of other lore videos, Marika first removed the Rune of Destined Death from the Elden Ring when she was at threat by the Godskin Apostacy and the "Gloam/Dusk-eyed Queen" (whom fan theory suggests is actually Mellina's real identity). Supposedly, Destined Death was wielded by the Gloam-eyed Queen and her servants to hunt demigods and rip their skin off, which would then be woven into armored suits with the intention of one day overthrowing Marika through using the skin of her own children against her. In order to stop the fuckery, Marika personally intervened to take the power of Destined Death away from the Gloam-eyed Queen, sealed it in Maliketh, and then sealed him away too for good measure. That was, at least, until Night of Black Knives. Now again, everything I say here is pure speculation, but I believe it was a whole-ass conspiracy among Marika and all the Empyreans, that they were working together and planned the whole thing with each other deliberately. See, it is suggested that Marika got spooked by the Godskin Apostacy, not because someone was trying to overthrow her, but because apparently the Greater Will sanctioned the revolt, as the Gloam-eyed queen was an Empyrean too and was potentially even Marika's kid (it also could have been her sister, but getting into the lineage of demigods and how one is or is not determined to be an Empyrean is a black hole that only leads to more uncomfortable questions instead of solving any). So it seems to have been that the Greater Will already had an idea of who was supposed to be Marika's successor, but one of the items in-game states that pretty much everyone wanted Miquella to be Marika's successor. But there was a problem, in that Ranni seemed to be "first in line" as it were, after the Gloam-eyed Queen. But Ranni didn't want to be under the thumb of the Greater Will. So with Ranni not wanting the job, Marika herself wanting Miquella to be the successor, and with Melania worshiping the ground her brother walked on, a plan was set into motion to more or less force the Greater Will to accept Miquella as Marika's heir. So Marika helped Ranni set up the Nox to steal a chunk of Destined Death from Maliketh (which is how Marika betrayed him, as referenced in one of Maliketh's Remembrances), while Miquella set up Godwyn to give him "true death" that apparently Godwyn secretly wished for (it is also suggested that Miquella may have been a manipulative bastard who could out-charm the Devil himself, so it is impossible to tell if Miquella truly was the Bestest-Person-Ever*TM* or if the Greater Will had a point in putting him bottom of the list). Ranni then used foreknowledge of Godwyn's planned murder to carve the Rune of Destined Death into herself at the exact same time as Godwyn, splitting the Rune in two: Ranni's flesh died, but her spirit remained, while Godwyn's spirit died, but his flesh remained. Ranni then took over the puppet in her master's image (which is potentially why Ranni looks so goodamn close to Melina, as Melina was potentially both the Gloam-eyed Queen and Ranni's master) while Godwyn was buried in the roots of the Greatree. The Greatree is the woody part of the Erdtree; at some point the Greatree and the Erdtree had their connection severed, which is why Godwyn's body was never taken into the roots and instead is rotting them and spreading Deathblight everywhere the roots once touched.
@@lukecetion this was a really good lecture! I agree, the Elden Ring and its runes seems to be a rule book that can alter most aspects of reality. I kinda wish they gave an explanation of what aspects of the world are controlled by each great rune, and I could bet that GRRM wrote it in the short story he gave to fromsoftware, but they decided to keep it from us, probably to force us to speculate what those are from the powers the runes grant us in the game.
@@no.9516 What I meant is that the runes could be physically separated from the Elden Ring while still being whole, like if they could remain connected through magical Wi-Fi or some sort of divine connection and the shattering is the lost of that connection. (Yes, I'm imagining the divine towers as giant routers and that Marika decided to screw everyone's internet connection which pretty much justify the whole war. I mean, Morgott has the best connection while the guys in Limgrave have to watch Thytube videos on 144p, the Mt. Gelmir doesn't have any connection at all and Miquella decided to contract his own Internet service but because Radahn's gravity magic is hoarding all satellites to endlessly stream Animal Planet videos, he decided to send Malenia to put and end to that madness)
Now I'm REALLY starting to wonder just how different each of the demigods was before obtaining this "mad tainted power", like just HOW MUCH did it change them, yknow? Or even like.. did all of them *willingly* take that power? Or were some of these great runes given.. forcefully or otherwise? Also, this might already be obvious, but did Godwyn not die before the Shattering? Wasn't he basically the reason why it happened, or basically the last straw? I guess the intro says that the piece of the rune of death used to kill him was "stolen" but.. is that just the interpretation of the people of the lands between orrrr
@@jackreacher7495 its not. In fact you're dead wrong. Same as Rogier is. NPCs are not reliable narrators. Omniscient narrators are. And you've totally made up a whole "Eclipse order" which is neither mentioned nor implied. Which I find particularly funny myself. Like. Totally missed everything important with Castle Sol.
@@darkhobo How can you just say a character who lived in the setting and through its history is lying to us, the players who know nothing? Especially with no evidence. You sound crazy. Terrible argument so far. Did you never talk to the ghosts around Castle Sol, who were trying to use an "eclipse" to bring back the soulless demigods, Godwyn included? I used something called "inductive reasoning" to conclude the existence of this order btw - the banners and shields and shotel with the eclipse? That marks the people who wear this symbol as an "order" you see. So, even though it's never mentioned explicitly, if you use your eyes and brain, you can make a simple observation like me. Speaking of which, did you never read the description of the Golden Epitaph sword? Miquella made it to commemorate Godwyn's death. How could he have made it and buried it if Godwyn's death didn't predate the Shattering, which was triggered by Miquella's kidnapping? And yes, I'm right. And I have evidence to prove it. Did you never talk to Gideon after finding Miquella, who muses to himself, "Perhaps the queen's sorrow was justified"? Further emphasizes that the Shattering was incited by Miquella's disappearance and the ruination of the Haligtree, which was clearly meant to be a "separate erdtree" deprived of the Elden Beast's influence. I know you're about to point out how Mohg was shown kidnapping Miquella in the opening, suggesting it was the "mad taint" of his rune from the Shattering that inspired him to do this, but THAT right there is an instance where your "unreliable narrator" argument would be valid. Because the opposing logic would inherently assume the same for every image: that Radahn and Malenia fought as soon as the shattering started AND that Radahn fought Morgott in the capital; that Rykard fed himself to the serpent. Even if you don't believe me, at least I'm providing evidence instead of saying "wrong" and acting like a smug jerk. Come on.
Godwyn’s death preceded the Shattering. The Last Rite sword specifically states Miquella mourned for Godwyn. The Sentry Torch also states that the torch was created to prevent another event similar to the Night of Black Knives, implying a passage of time between Godwyn’s death, the creation of the Sentry Torches and the Last Rite sword, and the actual Shattering of the Elden Ring
@@jackreacher7495 because he is contradicted by the evidence and has none that backs him up. Then theres just tons of head canon I dont feel like fixing. Stick to what the game says is true. Stop making assumptions and just stick to the facts of the game. The ghosts are not trying to revive the demigods. Miquella and Godwyn are there to kill. Thats what the ghosts say.
Well, I believe that the demigods were given the great runes at birth (maybe not the omen brothers, but they were children of Marika and they were still given 2 fingers, so why not?). In the intro, the narrator says: "Soon Marika's offsprings, demigods all claimed the shards of the elden ring". As I translate this, at that point they claimed the power of their great runes, not the great runes, similar to when we activate them in the divine towers and/or when the run arcs are used. Up untill this point, they didn't have reason to claim them, their birth-given great runes, but the death of demigod seems like a good reason to do so. On that note, the great runes probably received a boost of power, when the elden ring shattered and that also affected the "mad taint of their newfound power" it was a power transfer from the elden ring. That's my interpretation.
One question that has been bugging the shit out of me, is why do we wake up for the very first time upon entering the game at the Chapel of Anticipation? right before we fight the Royal Scion ( typical insta death boss). Why there in particular? why not Hero's first step? etc, or another random odd place. What makes this spot so unique?
What I thought was that each great rune represent the spirits and wills of other characters. Each demigod had a great will, and the one who didn't became the souless demigods reject by Marika because they became ought. As we turn other's runes into our own, Melina says she needs to know our thoughts and principles we'd follow, thus forging our own rune within ourselves.
I think these lore hunting streams are great for bringing a community together to discuss and deliberate on the lore. I'm also not opposed to the format of regular script lore videos. Both are great to me for different reasons. There's a lot going for having a community to help understand things and expand your views on things. And also there's a benefit to being able to edit a video that explains every thought in a complete and concise way free of straying from the topic or getting influenced by group bias, mob mentality, and toxic tribalism. Some of those things can be associated with the down side of joining a group that has a specific preference for their way of seeing things and shows hatred for those outside the group or in disagreement with the group. I'd argue that plenty of people want a purely information based analysis of lore without that sort of thing, but some others may not mind it at all. Honestly, I'm a bit of a drifter through many groups that do all sorts of different things with their content. At the end of the day this is your group, and as long as you make it in a way that you are satisfied with and keeps a good community free of hate, you're going to do great with this stuff no matter the topic. Does that mean I'm going to consider hitting that join button at some point? We'll just have to see. Keep up the good work!
Something I find interesting is that: The shattering happens after the night of the black knives, yet it’s said that Ranni had a great rune and cast it away. Maybe Rani never had a great time to begin with?
Can it be that Marika shattered the Elden Ring AND gave the broken off Great Runes to her kids/step kids? Also, how does Ranni's quest line up with this? Did she never get a great rune since she used the Night of Black Knives to cast off her empyrean status? But doesn't Gideon say she discarded her rune too?
You have to remember that marika took the rune of death she basically stopped death as you know it. That's why there's those bodies growing in the roots of those catacombs. Anyway when ranni stole a piece of the destined death . She managed to kill godwyn cuz ranni basically ceased immortality? It's my interpretation lol
@@tooskispookski I've been thinking about it a lot tonight. It's possible, if Rogier simply has the timeline wrong, that: 1. Marika defeated the Gloam-eyed queen and locked away Destined Death with Malekith, thereby creating the Golden Order 2. Radagon and Rennala are married 3. Godfrey and the Tarnished are banished 4. Radagon leaves Rennala and becomes one with Marika and then gives Rennala the Rune of Rebirth as consolation. 5. Marika becomes disenfranchised with the Golden Order, shatters the Elden Ring and gives the remaining Great Runes to her children and step children to see who will rise as the next Elden Lord or God of a new age. 6. Ranni decides she wants no part in it so she casts aside her Rune and Two Fingers, then steals a part of destined Death from Malekith and enacts the night of black knives at the very start of the Shattering War leaving Godwyn as the first demi-god to die. 7. The Shattering ends in a stalemate, the Tarnished are called back, and we enter the picture to put it all back together. But this still doesn't explain comments about Marika's grief over Godwyn and even Miquella driving her to Bonk the Ring. And it also is built on Rogier being wrong about the timeline. And Ranni even implies the NoBK was the catalyst of it all.
@@tooskispookski there's that theory. The only way Ranni's story makes sense with this timeline (Marika shattering the ring and then giving the runes to her children after) is if the night of black knives happened after the shattering. But everyone who knows says otherwise.
@@TSpoon823 Nope Godwyn's death happens before Marika Shattered the Elden ring (Seriously the opening cinematic makes that much clear) and by all indications is the incident that made her resolve to do so. Markia didn't need to shatter Elden ring to remove and give great runes to others, removing the rune of death and giving it to Maliketh makes that pretty clear.
You have a very good grasp on what is going on with this. It is also very possible that there were further shattered runes. Nothing says a rune can't be broken down even more by the demi-gods.
Hi guys. Just wanted to point out that much like the radagon and marika scar seal and sore seals, ranni's dark moon ring seem to have an enrgraving of a rune on it. Could be the rune that she discarded. If not a rune, it looks exactly like the moon/portal present at the age of the stars ending.
I just discovered this channel and it’s really great, is there any way you could make playlists though? It’s sort of hard to find all of your lore videos and I don’t wanna miss any
You're totally right about the community discussion being a big part of exploring the lore of this game. Big long lore explanation videos are great and have their place, but they are just one person talking at you. A discussion among many people, while it can be disjointed and more chaotic than just a video, is so important for getting differing perspectives and changing opinions on this incredibly vague game
As Radagon is loyal and devoted to Golden Order, he'd would problably repair the Elden Ring to the way it was, a Loyal Hound as Marika says. Reforging the Order to what it was would unite the Golden Order again.
So I have to say, in terms of the shattering it seems a lot of people grapple with what caused the shattering, but it’s actually one of the few pieces of lore that is told expressly, the shattering is a war, and the war began due to the “mad taint of the demigods” upon them receiving the great rune, it isn’t really said in a way that leaves debate, she shattered it, the children received the runes, and it caused them all to wage this war, Morgott more than likely began slaughtering heroes, rykard, with his newfound strength would feed himself to a great serpent, mogh following the call of his formless mother, godrick fragmented in mind attempting grafting, perhaps radahn’s campaign was just to quell these forces and bring stability as Kenneth haight says godrick hid from him, ranni shed her rune to avoid the conflict entirely, and malenia was more than likely running out of time, as her fight seems to be In desperation and not much is given as to why she’s campaign outside of miquella, unless they needed something, as they do imply the clean rot knights are practically destined to become soup in their armor, even if the events aren’t in order, it’s still expressly stated that the war was caused by the “mad taint”
Thats why everything is destroyed . You can smell war everywhere and , if you read Radahns Great Rune you can actually see why Malenia went after him during the Shattering War , i mean she must had a motive for going to Caelid from the Haligtree , leaving Miquella unprotected , big motive
The greater will didn't put the barrier for the Erdtree, Radagon did, the fingers got confused when we couldn't enter, we were supposed to go there and restore the order, but Radagon doesn't want us to do it, maybe because he knows that we are doing what Marika wants, or maybe the is desperately trying to stay as Elden Lord or whatever he is, EL or a God since he and Marika are the same, the GW just punished Marika for the shattering imprisioning her.
With all the lore hunting I hope some people take note of the fact that some things will stay in obscurity for years if Elden Ring goes the route of sequels/prequels. Patches ain't dead yet either, he could be the "Outer God" of space and time, traveling through worlds to cause mischief that we must ultimately defeat in Elden Ring 3 to save the timelines of Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Elden Ring.
I think everyone had something of a "rune arc", instantly given to them through blood. In other words, every rune arc we find might be from a distant demigod offspring. The more complete great runes were anchors given via demigod blood, OR in instances like Godrick's, which is a central anchor, theirs was formed through all the demigod distant children who were grafted into him or his army (i.e. the grafted scions, which we know are actually made up of demigod children). Because in my eyes, Godrick only stands out by will and what he's willing to do; by blood, he's not closer to Marika than most of the "rune arc demigods" we come across.
The fact that runes exist everywhere, and average Joe's just have runes, continues to lead me to believe that runes by nature are an earthly power, and the Greater Will did not create the Elden Ring. The Great Runes govern life on earth and it's principals.
Morgott calls the other Demi-Gods "Wilful traitors, all. Thy kind are all of a piece. Pillagers. Emboldened by the flame of ambition". This reinforces that they all took the Runes and sought their own ambitions rather than mend them to restore the Elden Ring. This would be what Marika wanted, though, it;s never implied that she gave them Runes.
5:01 It just specifized newfound strength, The rooms that they could have already have been given, Could have gained the power that was held in the Elden ring when the Elden ring was shattered.
Hey there Jake. The way I interpret "The greater will" is the (Collective conscious). The faith of those who make "the lands between" their home towards Marika the Erdtree and eventually the Golden Order. (Flock's Canvas Talisman). And in an odd way - that collective consciousness (The greater will). Created pressure on Marika, Ranni and all the demigods. There is an expression: heavy is the weight of the head that bears the crown. Marika, as representative and living vessel of faith/world order. Had her own children start foghting each other. And so a war in her own (lineage/body/order).
I wonder - and this is just a nitpicky thing - when the children received their runes, did they inherently gain power from them or did they have to activate these hewn-off shards first with a new source of power through a process? If the divine towers are the key to activation, what did the children do in the interim between gaining the runes and the construction of the towers (assuming they weren’t already there - maybe they could have been captured from an earlier civ)? I have no clue, but the ‘newly found powers’ got me thinking.
I don't know if it's worth mentioning but on morgotts great rune it says it proves he is the offspring of Marika, kind of implying it is his birthright
This is even more vague than Fire and Blood. At least with that book we get historical accounts on what happened. Elden Ring just throws you in it, you're expected to piece it together (There's no handholding), a lot of things could mean a whole bunch of things, and finally, no details about the main characters to flesh them out as characters. I want GRRM to write "The Golden Order" book so that we can get proper detailed lore because it's good... And we like those characters.
Marica was 'hidden' deep within Radagons mind. That's probably why he felt so bad that the children he had was so amazing and powerful. Then she takes over and makes him leave his love and do her bidding or she could do worse so renalla and the kids. He had to leave but that resentment might be why the next kids get cursed so easily,
Melania and Miquella are likely cursed because Radagon/Marika cheated in their birth. Empyreans are "born of a single god" and gods seem to have the ability to split off "aspects' of themselves to become new beings based on Millicent and her sisters' "birth." This is also why the Rot worshipers were after Millicent as the "most beautiful flower" as they wanted Millicent to take the place of Melania as the Goddess of Rot. Since only Empyreans can become gods/goddesses, and they must be "born of a single god" that would make Millicent at least an Empyrean candidate. However, in the case of Marika and Radagon, they are two aspects of the same body. As Melania and Miquella are CLEARLY stated to be the children of both Radagon AND Marika, the implication is...Marika impregnated herself with Radagon's seed, taking the expression "go fuck yourself" a little literally. Thus, while they were not created through the "budding" processes that Empyreans are supposed to come from, they still technically "come from a single god" so the Greater Will counted it as "I'll allow it, but know that it upsets me." The one exception to this is Ranni, whom I originally thought was a Marika "bud" that then Radagon used the Rune of Rebirth on so that Rennalla could be impregnated with her; but as shown by Zhullie the Witch, the fried corpse of Ranni's original body still retains Radagon's red hair, marking her as a true child of Radagon. So unless Ranni is a Radagon "bud" then my theory falls flat, though I still suspect Ranni's birth was some sort of experiment done to see if the Greater Will couldn't be "tricked" when it came to Empyrean inheritance, with the true goal being the birth of Melania and Miquella
@@GeneGear them being candidates was not in question... I feel/think Radagon had to have some conflicting reasoning to leave rennala and how marica was never seen in ANY way seen TOGETER standing side by side discussing plans and that's not the kids he had with rennala so I wasn't talking about the twins. That was my point. So idk why tf you feel the need to bring up what you just did.... but ok?
Maybe since they are demigods, they have their own great runes in the non shattered elden ring but they were only tainted by the power when it was shattered
Yeah… the timeline is a lot larger than what people generally think. Godwyn’s death was quite some time before the shattering, and the birth of Miquella and Malenia brought about the end of the bountiful age prior. Even then, from their births, the Shattering didn’t just right after. It’s a land of no true death, whose rulers are the children of a god - so, like George RR Martin sort of generalized, he was asked to write the history of the Lands Between from the Shattering war all the way back say, 5,000 years ago - which may makes sense given the empire of the Ancient Dragons and pre-Erdtree cultures.
Maybe their runes were always there, just not active and the shards of the Elden Ring are like Rune Arcs, and only when the ring was shattered did the runes become active. It was the Elden Ring that prevents the demigods from using their true powers. Marika may have done this so she can war against the outer god instead she was imprisoned and her children warred against each other.
Does this theory stack up? 1. First was the Night of the Black Knives in which Godwyn was murdered. 2. In order to protect her children, Queen Marika gave her children the Great Runes to give them strength. 3. Marika then tricked Maliketh to take the rune of death, to rid the world of destined death, to further protect her children from death and lock him away in Faram Azula. 4. Radagon and Marika disagreed about her actions as the separation of the Elden ring went against the Golden Order, and in the heat of the moment, Marika Shattered the Elden ring. This imprisoned them both and Radagon became Marika to preserve what was left of the Elden Ring. 5. The children realised the great runes gave them great power, and greed ensued and they wanted to claim more of the great runes for themselves in order to make them more powerful, leading to the Shattering War.
I love watching these videos now, mostly because he says stuff that he thinks nothing of, but is %1000 story, while the things he obsesses over don't really matter much at all.
I always assumed that the Demi Gods were given their great runes. Since apparently the cursed twins were prophesied to have the most sacred runes, as if they'd be born with it or be given them at birth. Because it just doesn't make sense to me that only Marika's children would have great runes. What did she bring them all together to watch her break it then pick them up when she does? Nah it looks like she just broke it out of grief and why would the demi gods be around at that exact moment to grab them?
i always though that the Great Runes were one thing in conjuction with the Elden Ring, so every demigod always had it's runes for being offspring of Marika, or being tied with the Erdtree, they just were one with the entirety of the Elden Ring, once the Elden Ring was broken everyone was free with it's very one aspect, it's very own form of the once whole Elden Ring, those were the Great Runes, to me it also tied the headless demigos in the walking mausoleuns, they all were once part of the Elden Ring and that's why the priimordial Elden Ring that we see in Farum Azula is bigger and with more runes, every being tied to the Erdtree as demigods are part of the Elden Ring with some of it's runes, also when the Shattering happened they became "fallen heroes" and all that because they were cut off from the wholeness of it, funny how grazy you can go with your own theories
Yeah radagon is trying to repair it to what it was, this is shortsighted however as the goldmask ending proves. Marika is however orchestrating her massive plot thingy
Is it possible that as the demigods were born more runes were added to represent the., because all of their runes fot them to a tee, melania wants to be cured so hers heals, godrick wants to become stronger, so his boost all stats, etc. And when marika shattered the elden ring, the shattered parts went to who they represent/belong to
They tarnished as a people were called back to the lands between. Not the tarnished as individuals. Remember, he said that their ancestors were banished from the lands between.
It's pretty straightforward especially with jrr martin. They overtly say in the game a mother had a plot, did a thing, and urged her children to claim the pieces and fulfill their individual goals. The "thing" she did and the war that began as a result of children pursuing their goals are both called " the shattering", individually. The shattering of a ring and the shattering of a family. Something can't be "intact" and "partially broken" at the same time. Radagon had a history of bringing things together between the golden order, the fire giants, and the family he married into. While it isn't stated in the game, it would have been interesting if he was mending the ring to incorporate yet another faction or way of life while she was outright breaking it, but I don't remember anything implying it besides his past behavior.
idk, piecing the lore together has always been my favorite part of souls.. ASSUMING there is a solid order of events in Miyazaki's personal journal or mind even... then I appreciate the vagueness of what we got. I feel like every obscure element in the game fits with everything else. And that he put enough clues to crack this puzzle box. ... though I won't lie, there's a small part of me that thinks maybe he didn't even know what the big picture is. That would be a bummer considering the effort everyone's put into figuring out the lore
@@k1xnt I get it. I REALLY like it too. But it's just too open. Too unconfirmed. It's like, almost perfect. But not. I think a little would go a long way. It's hands down the best visual story telling of gaming. But often much of what's going on feels very disconnected at first. Until some genius posts a video about all these kinda connected details and then it kinda makes sense. At best. I feel like Bloodborne did it the best though.
I don’t believe she gave it to them. Morgott calls his siblings “willful traitors all”. Suggesting everyone’s grab for power was a sleight against the golden order that did not appear intentional despite marika wanting to destroy the order
I can t stop thinkin about some words said by Ranni in the Trailler: " The elden ring was shattered, not by who, but why ?" My english is maybe not good enough, but it seem to mean that the real question is WHY.. What if Radagon and Marika was working together..? Maybe they tried to counter something that would be worst than being punished by the greater will.. Undead are everywhere, maybe they shattered the elden ring to counter em.. Maybe they tried to avoid an age of undead by breaking the elden ring to be sure that the prince of death could not have it..
I think “The Shattering” is used in two different ways. There is the event, the shattering of the Elden Ring. Then, there is the shattering -war- which happened as a result of the event. Sometimes the term is used ambiguously to refer to these two connected concepts.
It isn't that confusing. Look at everything describing the rune of death "Destined Death" as it is nicknamed in the game and safeguarded by Maliketh and his goons even in their crazed state. It clearly states that Marika broke it off intentionally. The descriptions of the runes give you the damn answer. There is nothing left to really debate. Marika CLEARLY created the runes.
And by created I mean broke off and repurposed parts of the rune that made up the Elden Ring. It is insinuated multiple times that the children and academy were being taken great care of despite playing mr gotchya with Radagon.
I think, that Radagon and the Elden Beast are the same being. Marika is the vessel for the Elden Ring and that means she is the vessel for the Elden Beast because they are the same.
All the thrones are by the eardtree. That’s where they all saw Marika shatter the ring and they all took a piece for themselves out of greed or power or right
Did u notice the guy didn’t answer the first question? He talked a lot and said nothing new or even related to the question. Didnt say what is the elden ring or whats the significance of it being shattered. Kinda pisses me off and sometimes i think they dont even know themselves. They just threw it out there and had us fill in the blanks
This is one of those stories that badly need a prequel of the main event either through visuals, dlc or just a new follow up title about it. ER not as cut and dry as Dark Souls. Far too ambiguous where as Souls the only real answer we still need cleared up is how the dark Soul itself came about precisely.
So if the Great Runes were obtained after the Elden Ring was shattered, I'm a little confused about the Great Rune of the Unborn, does that mean Radagon gifted the rune during the war, cause I was always under the impression he gifted it to her before going back to lyndell to become one with marika
I think Radagon teamed up with the Elden beast to seal Marina away. I think they are combined into one person but clearly they don’t have control all the time. So Marika would do things that Radagon didn’t like, while she was in control, and Radagon knew the only way to stop her was to imprison her. Marika knew that Radagon was going to do some thing of that sort, so she set up a bunch of pieces so that the tarnished could come back and finish the part of her plan that she couldn’t finish herself.
I think Marika always was distrustful of the greater will and having seen the fall of the preceding Dragon Order took out the Glaom Eye-ed Queen and sealed Destined death specifically ensure that she could rule eternally... but left the Glaom Eye-ed Queen aka Melena burned and bodiless so and banished the Tarnished to serve as an exit clause to burn down the Erdtree and end the Golden order if she ever wanted out and then triggered that exit plan after Godwyn's death broke her resolve to keep her order going. Radagon didn't feel the same way but when he couldn't repair the Elden ring he tried to hose Marika's plan by sealing away the Elden Throne but he had already been out maneuvered by Marika who had Melena as her unknown ace in the hole.
It is worthwhile to do some of the deep dives into some of the additional translations that have been done, some of the in game English looks to be not as intended, Ranni's ending for sure.
What if after Godwin the Golden was murdered, Marika shattered the Elden Ring but the ruins didn't scatter. Then the scene in the opening cut scene of Radagon hammering could be him trying to mend the Elden Ring. Then Marika gave the ruins to the other Demi-gods and it was after she gave away the ruins that she was imprisoned.
the big gate above the entrance to the erdtree where marikas is haning, shows a big elden ring with runes, feeding the erdtree, i havent found any video saying something about that gate
Hold on, couldn't the receiving the great rune and obtaining of the mad power be two separate events? I remember there was dialog in the game where marika talks to her children and tells them they will be sacrifices. It sounded to me like she game them the runes but they didn't get power from them until marika shattered the elden ring. Once it was shattered the demigods got the power and went crazy.
He uses the words, "inherited the mad taint power of the shards once it was shattered"... this may be mincing words, but hr doesn't tell you if they had the shards in hand or not when the elden ring was shattered.
@@EngMasta "In Marika's own words. Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices..." "Soon (after the Night of the Black Knives), Marika's offspring, demigods all, claimed the shards of the Elden Ring. The mad taint of their newfound strength triggered the Shattering." There's enough unhinged rambling around ER lore as is, with the script in hand. Muddying the waters even further with this kind of misconceptions based on half-memories is something absolutely nobody needs. Be precise, or be quiet.
Consider this...was Radagon (going on the theory that Radagon is Marika) just a puppet when he tried to fix the shattered Elden Ring but failed? If so then whose puppet before and after failure?
And was it not the Shattered Elden Ring that beckoned the Tarnished to return according to Miyazaki? Or perhaps it is the Erdtree that beckons? Miyazaki: "Then a long time after that, the Elden Ring was shattered in a historical event. This triggers the return of this lost grace and it calls out to the Tarnished, who were once exiled from The Lands Between, and it guides them back." Why? When it was the Tarnished ancestors who lost grace/the blessing and were banished.
I thought it was pretty obvious from item descriptions and dialogs that Marika shattered the ring, distributed its more powerful remains to her kiddos, and then they fought a war for domination.
I haven't watched. This video but I was always under the impression that queen marika shattered the elden ring for reasons only known to her and I was also under the impression she gave the runes to her children but her children wanted more they started to squabble over it. Also marika was imprisoned so she can't really mediate. Also the battle was between step siblings. Between radagon and renalas childrens and marika and radagons children.
I mean. The runes are a part of the elden ring. You can clearly see them. How can someone take pieces of it without breaking it lol. All that was left was the bottom circle. The rest of the circle are the currency we use.
FromSoft have made it clear that they are not interested in sequels unless they feel they reay have to ever since the success of BB and Sekiro. As far as Elden Ring goes, its not done yet as we await DLC or multiple DLCs and thats their focus now. Elden Ring 2 if happening, hasn't even been started yet. The second factor is Bandai Namco and their willingness to take this franchise further which surprisingly they do not for a lot of their IPs. Only if the 2 conditions are satisfied will we see a Elden Ring 2 but tbh it wasn;t even designed to be one as tropes used are for a very self contained story and setting. I know the fan base will grasp at straws and insist that every game is connected somehow but really, you can connect a lotta things with enough mental gymnastics if you want to. TLDR : Chances of ELDEN RING 2 is low but not impossible
So the Elden Ring is basically a conjunction of all the great runes, I can't help but think that each demigod was more or less responsible for their own rune. The Conjunction symbolizes the point when all the demigods stood together in their alignments. Marika's shattering is literally the night of black knives and the slaying of Goldwyn, turning(shattering) the demigods against her...
I wanna know how queen Marcia and radagon are the same person like how are they the same person we’re did radagon come from and how did queen Marcia end up in the tree at the end of the game
So I will say I don't disagree with the premise that Marika shattered the Elden Ring and the then the great runes were fought over... I do disagree with the hard stance that the runes couldn't have been given to demigods before hand. My biggest counter there is Radagon gave Rennala the great rune of rebirth before returning to Marika, something that timeline wise should have been before the shattering. So there is precedence for giving great runes to others before the shattering. Now the lore implications for Radagon being the one to do so and doing it before the rejoining of Marika I will leave to other lore affecionados.
@@wildbard4112 Correct but he's supposedly the All Knowing, meaning he's one of the most knowledgeable people who has come to that conclusion despite her absence after the black knives
@@schmuckers4955 that's just a title, he doesn't know everything. In fact: he doesn't know a whole lot considering everything we tell him that he doesn't know.
@@FallenFromGlory But he does tell us information we wouldn't know, and he's been in the lands between for awhile and had time to speculate and he's looking for the shard bearers more than almost anyone else and he came to that conclusion
The next real questions are, are the Great ruins: which are literal pieces of the Elden Ring also literal pieces of Marika? I mean when we find her we find her corpse is literally shattered and the Elden Ring is synonymous with Marika and the Greater Will, so it seems that way. When the Great ruins are obtained by her offspring and also us are we actually obtaining pieces of Marika herself, are we obtaining the power of a God from her actual corpse? This leads to the most important question, What is the Elden Ring exactly? Is it the power of a God to shape reality and the rules of nature? What exactly is it and why does obtaining a piece of it corrupt all who touch it besides us the Tarnished?
The Japanese have a practice of repairing shattered items using gold so they're more beautiful than before. I bet anything that's essentially what Radagon was trying to do by "repairing" the Elden Ring. The idea definitely fits
Kintsukuroi, huh. Interesting idea.
Distorted intention and meaning of that action.
Marika was caught when she was questioning and plotting against the erdtree. Whilst being caught she didn’t want to go down empty handed so she destroyed the elden ring. Which lead to radagon having to mend the elden ring
I had always gotten the impression that the Elden Ring shattered into the Great Runes, and once they were available, the demigods fought over the those pieces.
That's literally what everyone knows lol unless you skipped the intro cutscene you knew exactly what they were
No, look at the lore for the rune of death. It dispels that theory immediately.
@@alprem3455 The intro is an oversimplification of something that took place over a thousand years. That isn't evidence of anything. It is MEANT to be vague and misleading. Radan has been wandering his aren for a thousand years or so and the siblings were in hibernation until Miquella was taken and died from being broken open early. Look at everything the demi-gods show you in their actions surrounding the deaths and tragedies of the gods.
@@alprem3455 Also, the shattering, murder of Godwin, and the ravaging war that took place outside of that kingdom are all further evidence that this all wasnt something that happened instantly. Otherwise destined death would not be so heavily guarded by devoted and crazed loyal beast clergymen
If you talk to Melina at one of the churches she gives you a quote of Marika. It goes something like "Queen Marika gave the grate runes to her children then she told them that only the strongest will achieve greatness and the rest will be forgotten". Which implies that she handed each great rune to each demigod.
In my head the smaller runes you find to use to level are smaller shards from the Elden Ring and explains why everyone and everything drops them they were scooped up by lesser beings(npcs)
with the great runes being ones from the major story bosses who have shards
Elden Ring lore is a moving target…thank you for a candid video man! 🙌🏿
I think the image of morgott attacking a demigod is enough information to show that the demigods fought and killed each other for the elden ring
I'm just casually gonna point out the fact that the entire shattering is just a fight between siblings.
Yeah, i cant stop thinking about everything in Elden Ring too . It's a nightmare 🤕
I have the impression that the great runes could exists separately with the Elden Ring still remaining whole, like when Radagon gifted Rennala with the great rune of the Unborn or when Marika plucked out destined death from it. Maybe Marika gave the great runes to her children long before the shattering as a sign of their status as demigods, for example Morgott's rune says that it is proof that he was of the golden lineage and the monarch of Leyndell, but when the time came and she decided to shatter the Elden Ring, the great runes got some special properties that boosted the demigod's power or the balance that existed before disappeared, driving them "mad" and starting the war.
This does seem to be the case, as in the Elden Ring existing while the smaller Great Runes also existing separately from it. Even as we are running around collecting the Great Runes we know that Marika is within the Erdtree and is containing what remains of the Elden Ring. We don't repair (mend) it until after the battle with Radagon and the Elden Beast, and we don't even need all the Great Runes in our possession to do so.
The way I personally understood them to function is as a set of rules, like a rule book or lines of code. The rule set can be added to or have rules removed from it, though doing so requires great will and power as seen by the acts and stories of those who grants the player a Mend Rune and the immense power the player achieves in their travels. The act of removing them is seen with Marika's removal of the "Rune of Death". Even people such as Miquella and Ranni who wished to be rid of the Elden Ring has only ever partially succeeded through the use of it.
Ranni is implied to change the "rules" in such a way that they cannot be meddled with as easily or directly as they have in the past, tying it more to all beings rather than one or a handful. While Miquella seems to be attempting to entirely replace it by "remaking" it in his image, using its power as the foundation.
However they are all adding or removing to it. Changing it, abiding by it. They cannot do anything the rules don't allow for. Though being rules in the most vague sense means that you can play around them. Such as the "Rune of Death". Its removal caused the people not to live forever, but to be returned to the Erdtree and "channeled" through it into new life. In other words it seems to have only really removed the idea of "moving on". The Rune of Death was either kept by Marika because she couldn't destroy it or she didn't want to and kept it around for unknown reasons or as an insurance.
Point is, the "Elden Ring" acts more like a book on "Laws of Reality" and not just some vestige of power. Marika's act of removing the Rune of Death might be inspired by Freyja's act of gaining the promise of all things to not harm Baldur as a means to keep him from dying. Marika might have tried to do the same to avoid the death of her children, but when someone then stole the Rune of Death and used its power to kill her children she knew that it was a fools errand.
Though it might also have been done for any numerous other reasons.
@@lukecetion From what I have seen of other lore videos, Marika first removed the Rune of Destined Death from the Elden Ring when she was at threat by the Godskin Apostacy and the "Gloam/Dusk-eyed Queen" (whom fan theory suggests is actually Mellina's real identity). Supposedly, Destined Death was wielded by the Gloam-eyed Queen and her servants to hunt demigods and rip their skin off, which would then be woven into armored suits with the intention of one day overthrowing Marika through using the skin of her own children against her. In order to stop the fuckery, Marika personally intervened to take the power of Destined Death away from the Gloam-eyed Queen, sealed it in Maliketh, and then sealed him away too for good measure.
That was, at least, until Night of Black Knives. Now again, everything I say here is pure speculation, but I believe it was a whole-ass conspiracy among Marika and all the Empyreans, that they were working together and planned the whole thing with each other deliberately. See, it is suggested that Marika got spooked by the Godskin Apostacy, not because someone was trying to overthrow her, but because apparently the Greater Will sanctioned the revolt, as the Gloam-eyed queen was an Empyrean too and was potentially even Marika's kid (it also could have been her sister, but getting into the lineage of demigods and how one is or is not determined to be an Empyrean is a black hole that only leads to more uncomfortable questions instead of solving any).
So it seems to have been that the Greater Will already had an idea of who was supposed to be Marika's successor, but one of the items in-game states that pretty much everyone wanted Miquella to be Marika's successor. But there was a problem, in that Ranni seemed to be "first in line" as it were, after the Gloam-eyed Queen. But Ranni didn't want to be under the thumb of the Greater Will. So with Ranni not wanting the job, Marika herself wanting Miquella to be the successor, and with Melania worshiping the ground her brother walked on, a plan was set into motion to more or less force the Greater Will to accept Miquella as Marika's heir.
So Marika helped Ranni set up the Nox to steal a chunk of Destined Death from Maliketh (which is how Marika betrayed him, as referenced in one of Maliketh's Remembrances), while Miquella set up Godwyn to give him "true death" that apparently Godwyn secretly wished for (it is also suggested that Miquella may have been a manipulative bastard who could out-charm the Devil himself, so it is impossible to tell if Miquella truly was the Bestest-Person-Ever*TM* or if the Greater Will had a point in putting him bottom of the list). Ranni then used foreknowledge of Godwyn's planned murder to carve the Rune of Destined Death into herself at the exact same time as Godwyn, splitting the Rune in two: Ranni's flesh died, but her spirit remained, while Godwyn's spirit died, but his flesh remained.
Ranni then took over the puppet in her master's image (which is potentially why Ranni looks so goodamn close to Melina, as Melina was potentially both the Gloam-eyed Queen and Ranni's master) while Godwyn was buried in the roots of the Greatree. The Greatree is the woody part of the Erdtree; at some point the Greatree and the Erdtree had their connection severed, which is why Godwyn's body was never taken into the roots and instead is rotting them and spreading Deathblight everywhere the roots once touched.
You cant remove a piece from something and it still be considered "whole" unless you redefine what it is.
@@lukecetion this was a really good lecture! I agree, the Elden Ring and its runes seems to be a rule book that can alter most aspects of reality. I kinda wish they gave an explanation of what aspects of the world are controlled by each great rune, and I could bet that GRRM wrote it in the short story he gave to fromsoftware, but they decided to keep it from us, probably to force us to speculate what those are from the powers the runes grant us in the game.
@@no.9516 What I meant is that the runes could be physically separated from the Elden Ring while still being whole, like if they could remain connected through magical Wi-Fi or some sort of divine connection and the shattering is the lost of that connection.
(Yes, I'm imagining the divine towers as giant routers and that Marika decided to screw everyone's internet connection which pretty much justify the whole war. I mean, Morgott has the best connection while the guys in Limgrave have to watch Thytube videos on 144p, the Mt. Gelmir doesn't have any connection at all and Miquella decided to contract his own Internet service but because Radahn's gravity magic is hoarding all satellites to endlessly stream Animal Planet videos, he decided to send Malenia to put and end to that madness)
Now I'm REALLY starting to wonder just how different each of the demigods was before obtaining this "mad tainted power", like just HOW MUCH did it change them, yknow?
Or even like.. did all of them *willingly* take that power? Or were some of these great runes given.. forcefully or otherwise?
Also, this might already be obvious, but did Godwyn not die before the Shattering? Wasn't he basically the reason why it happened, or basically the last straw? I guess the intro says that the piece of the rune of death used to kill him was "stolen" but.. is that just the interpretation of the people of the lands between orrrr
No, it's very clear that Godwyn's death preceded the Shattering. His death is partly why the Eclipse order and Haligtree was made.
@@jackreacher7495 its not. In fact you're dead wrong. Same as Rogier is. NPCs are not reliable narrators. Omniscient narrators are.
And you've totally made up a whole "Eclipse order" which is neither mentioned nor implied. Which I find particularly funny myself.
Like. Totally missed everything important with Castle Sol.
@@darkhobo
How can you just say a character who lived in the setting and through its history is lying to us, the players who know nothing? Especially with no evidence. You sound crazy. Terrible argument so far.
Did you never talk to the ghosts around Castle Sol, who were trying to use an "eclipse" to bring back the soulless demigods, Godwyn included? I used something called "inductive reasoning" to conclude the existence of this order btw - the banners and shields and shotel with the eclipse? That marks the people who wear this symbol as an "order" you see. So, even though it's never mentioned explicitly, if you use your eyes and brain, you can make a simple observation like me.
Speaking of which, did you never read the description of the Golden Epitaph sword? Miquella made it to commemorate Godwyn's death. How could he have made it and buried it if Godwyn's death didn't predate the Shattering, which was triggered by Miquella's kidnapping?
And yes, I'm right. And I have evidence to prove it. Did you never talk to Gideon after finding Miquella, who muses to himself, "Perhaps the queen's sorrow was justified"? Further emphasizes that the Shattering was incited by Miquella's disappearance and the ruination of the Haligtree, which was clearly meant to be a "separate erdtree" deprived of the Elden Beast's influence. I know you're about to point out how Mohg was shown kidnapping Miquella in the opening, suggesting it was the "mad taint" of his rune from the Shattering that inspired him to do this, but THAT right there is an instance where your "unreliable narrator" argument would be valid. Because the opposing logic would inherently assume the same for every image: that Radahn and Malenia fought as soon as the shattering started AND that Radahn fought Morgott in the capital; that Rykard fed himself to the serpent.
Even if you don't believe me, at least I'm providing evidence instead of saying "wrong" and acting like a smug jerk. Come on.
Godwyn’s death preceded the Shattering. The Last Rite sword specifically states Miquella mourned for Godwyn. The Sentry Torch also states that the torch was created to prevent another event similar to the Night of Black Knives, implying a passage of time between Godwyn’s death, the creation of the Sentry Torches and the Last Rite sword, and the actual Shattering of the Elden Ring
@@jackreacher7495 because he is contradicted by the evidence and has none that backs him up.
Then theres just tons of head canon I dont feel like fixing. Stick to what the game says is true. Stop making assumptions and just stick to the facts of the game.
The ghosts are not trying to revive the demigods.
Miquella and Godwyn are there to kill. Thats what the ghosts say.
Well, I believe that the demigods were given the great runes at birth (maybe not the omen brothers, but they were children of Marika and they were still given 2 fingers, so why not?). In the intro, the narrator says: "Soon Marika's offsprings, demigods all claimed the shards of the elden ring". As I translate this, at that point they claimed the power of their great runes, not the great runes, similar to when we activate them in the divine towers and/or when the run arcs are used. Up untill this point, they didn't have reason to claim them, their birth-given great runes, but the death of demigod seems like a good reason to do so. On that note, the great runes probably received a boost of power, when the elden ring shattered and that also affected the "mad taint of their newfound power" it was a power transfer from the elden ring. That's my interpretation.
One question that has been bugging the shit out of me, is why do we wake up for the very first time upon entering the game at the Chapel of Anticipation? right before we fight the Royal Scion ( typical insta death boss). Why there in particular? why not Hero's first step? etc, or another random odd place. What makes this spot so unique?
The trailer literally shows Marika striking the Elden Ring. We'd assumed it was being assembled...and then realised it was her shattering it.
I love it 😉
What I thought was that each great rune represent the spirits and wills of other characters. Each demigod had a great will, and the one who didn't became the souless demigods reject by Marika because they became ought. As we turn other's runes into our own, Melina says she needs to know our thoughts and principles we'd follow, thus forging our own rune within ourselves.
I think these lore hunting streams are great for bringing a community together to discuss and deliberate on the lore. I'm also not opposed to the format of regular script lore videos. Both are great to me for different reasons. There's a lot going for having a community to help understand things and expand your views on things. And also there's a benefit to being able to edit a video that explains every thought in a complete and concise way free of straying from the topic or getting influenced by group bias, mob mentality, and toxic tribalism. Some of those things can be associated with the down side of joining a group that has a specific preference for their way of seeing things and shows hatred for those outside the group or in disagreement with the group. I'd argue that plenty of people want a purely information based analysis of lore without that sort of thing, but some others may not mind it at all.
Honestly, I'm a bit of a drifter through many groups that do all sorts of different things with their content. At the end of the day this is your group, and as long as you make it in a way that you are satisfied with and keeps a good community free of hate, you're going to do great with this stuff no matter the topic.
Does that mean I'm going to consider hitting that join button at some point? We'll just have to see. Keep up the good work!
Something I find interesting is that: The shattering happens after the night of the black knives, yet it’s said that Ranni had a great rune and cast it away. Maybe Rani never had a great time to begin with?
Glad I was able to watch and participate live, had a lot of fun!
Can it be that Marika shattered the Elden Ring AND gave the broken off Great Runes to her kids/step kids?
Also, how does Ranni's quest line up with this? Did she never get a great rune since she used the Night of Black Knives to cast off her empyrean status? But doesn't Gideon say she discarded her rune too?
I think she did get one but she somehow put it on the moon?
You have to remember that marika took the rune of death she basically stopped death as you know it. That's why there's those bodies growing in the roots of those catacombs. Anyway when ranni stole a piece of the destined death . She managed to kill godwyn cuz ranni basically ceased immortality? It's my interpretation lol
@@tooskispookski I've been thinking about it a lot tonight. It's possible, if Rogier simply has the timeline wrong, that:
1. Marika defeated the Gloam-eyed queen and locked away Destined Death with Malekith, thereby creating the Golden Order
2. Radagon and Rennala are married
3. Godfrey and the Tarnished are banished
4. Radagon leaves Rennala and becomes one with Marika and then gives Rennala the Rune of Rebirth as consolation.
5. Marika becomes disenfranchised with the Golden Order, shatters the Elden Ring and gives the remaining Great Runes to her children and step children to see who will rise as the next Elden Lord or God of a new age.
6. Ranni decides she wants no part in it so she casts aside her Rune and Two Fingers, then steals a part of destined Death from Malekith and enacts the night of black knives at the very start of the Shattering War leaving Godwyn as the first demi-god to die.
7. The Shattering ends in a stalemate, the Tarnished are called back, and we enter the picture to put it all back together.
But this still doesn't explain comments about Marika's grief over Godwyn and even Miquella driving her to Bonk the Ring. And it also is built on Rogier being wrong about the timeline. And Ranni even implies the NoBK was the catalyst of it all.
@@tooskispookski there's that theory. The only way Ranni's story makes sense with this timeline (Marika shattering the ring and then giving the runes to her children after) is if the night of black knives happened after the shattering. But everyone who knows says otherwise.
@@TSpoon823 Nope Godwyn's death happens before Marika Shattered the Elden ring (Seriously the opening cinematic makes that much clear) and by all indications is the incident that made her resolve to do so.
Markia didn't need to shatter Elden ring to remove and give great runes to others, removing the rune of death and giving it to Maliketh makes that pretty clear.
You have a very good grasp on what is going on with this. It is also very possible that there were further shattered runes. Nothing says a rune can't be broken down even more by the demi-gods.
Hi guys. Just wanted to point out that much like the radagon and marika scar seal and sore seals, ranni's dark moon ring seem to have an enrgraving of a rune on it. Could be the rune that she discarded. If not a rune, it looks exactly like the moon/portal present at the age of the stars ending.
I just discovered this channel and it’s really great, is there any way you could make playlists though? It’s sort of hard to find all of your lore videos and I don’t wanna miss any
So I guess your belief in the "shattering" event was shattered into a million pieces.
*Ba-dum tis*
You're totally right about the community discussion being a big part of exploring the lore of this game. Big long lore explanation videos are great and have their place, but they are just one person talking at you. A discussion among many people, while it can be disjointed and more chaotic than just a video, is so important for getting differing perspectives and changing opinions on this incredibly vague game
God that old school RuneScape in the background was nostalgic asf lol
Remember how you were wondering about Godfrey’s status as a demigod while godricks great rune was plastered on the screen? Good times…
As Radagon is loyal and devoted to Golden Order, he'd would problably repair the Elden Ring to the way it was, a Loyal Hound as Marika says. Reforging the Order to what it was would unite the Golden Order again.
The word ‘claim’ suggests the demigods took the shards of the Elden ring, rather than the shards being given to them 🧐
So I have to say, in terms of the shattering it seems a lot of people grapple with what caused the shattering, but it’s actually one of the few pieces of lore that is told expressly, the shattering is a war, and the war began due to the “mad taint of the demigods” upon them receiving the great rune, it isn’t really said in a way that leaves debate, she shattered it, the children received the runes, and it caused them all to wage this war, Morgott more than likely began slaughtering heroes, rykard, with his newfound strength would feed himself to a great serpent, mogh following the call of his formless mother, godrick fragmented in mind attempting grafting, perhaps radahn’s campaign was just to quell these forces and bring stability as Kenneth haight says godrick hid from him, ranni shed her rune to avoid the conflict entirely, and malenia was more than likely running out of time, as her fight seems to be In desperation and not much is given as to why she’s campaign outside of miquella, unless they needed something, as they do imply the clean rot knights are practically destined to become soup in their armor, even if the events aren’t in order, it’s still expressly stated that the war was caused by the “mad taint”
Thats why everything is destroyed . You can smell war everywhere and , if you read Radahns Great Rune you can actually see why Malenia went after him during the Shattering War , i mean she must had a motive for going to Caelid from the Haligtree , leaving Miquella unprotected , big motive
The greater will didn't put the barrier for the Erdtree, Radagon did, the fingers got confused when we couldn't enter, we were supposed to go there and restore the order, but Radagon doesn't want us to do it, maybe because he knows that we are doing what Marika wants, or maybe the is desperately trying to stay as Elden Lord or whatever he is, EL or a God since he and Marika are the same, the GW just punished Marika for the shattering imprisioning her.
With all the lore hunting I hope some people take note of the fact that some things will stay in obscurity for years if Elden Ring goes the route of sequels/prequels. Patches ain't dead yet either, he could be the "Outer God" of space and time, traveling through worlds to cause mischief that we must ultimately defeat in Elden Ring 3 to save the timelines of Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Elden Ring.
I think everyone had something of a "rune arc", instantly given to them through blood. In other words, every rune arc we find might be from a distant demigod offspring. The more complete great runes were anchors given via demigod blood, OR in instances like Godrick's, which is a central anchor, theirs was formed through all the demigod distant children who were grafted into him or his army (i.e. the grafted scions, which we know are actually made up of demigod children). Because in my eyes, Godrick only stands out by will and what he's willing to do; by blood, he's not closer to Marika than most of the "rune arc demigods" we come across.
The fact that runes exist everywhere, and average Joe's just have runes, continues to lead me to believe that runes by nature are an earthly power, and the Greater Will did not create the Elden Ring. The Great Runes govern life on earth and it's principals.
Morgott calls the other Demi-Gods "Wilful traitors, all. Thy kind are all of a piece. Pillagers. Emboldened by the flame of ambition". This reinforces that they all took the Runes and sought their own ambitions rather than mend them to restore the Elden Ring. This would be what Marika wanted, though, it;s never implied that she gave them Runes.
5:01
It just specifized newfound strength, The rooms that they could have already have been given, Could have gained the power that was held in the Elden ring when the Elden ring was shattered.
Hey there Jake.
The way I interpret "The greater will" is the (Collective conscious). The faith of those who make "the lands between" their home towards Marika the Erdtree and eventually the Golden Order.
(Flock's Canvas Talisman).
And in an odd way - that collective consciousness (The greater will). Created pressure on Marika, Ranni and all the demigods.
There is an expression: heavy is the weight of the head that bears the crown. Marika, as representative and living vessel of faith/world order. Had her own children start foghting each other. And so a war in her own (lineage/body/order).
I wonder - and this is just a nitpicky thing - when the children received their runes, did they inherently gain power from them or did they have to activate these hewn-off shards first with a new source of power through a process? If the divine towers are the key to activation, what did the children do in the interim between gaining the runes and the construction of the towers (assuming they weren’t already there - maybe they could have been captured from an earlier civ)? I have no clue, but the ‘newly found powers’ got me thinking.
I don't know if it's worth mentioning but on morgotts great rune it says it proves he is the offspring of Marika, kind of implying it is his birthright
This is even more vague than Fire and Blood. At least with that book we get historical accounts on what happened.
Elden Ring just throws you in it, you're expected to piece it together (There's no handholding), a lot of things could mean a whole bunch of things, and finally, no details about the main characters to flesh them out as characters.
I want GRRM to write "The Golden Order" book so that we can get proper detailed lore because it's good... And we like those characters.
Marica was 'hidden' deep within Radagons mind. That's probably why he felt so bad that the children he had was so amazing and powerful. Then she takes over and makes him leave his love and do her bidding or she could do worse so renalla and the kids. He had to leave but that resentment might be why the next kids get cursed so easily,
Melania and Miquella are likely cursed because Radagon/Marika cheated in their birth. Empyreans are "born of a single god" and gods seem to have the ability to split off "aspects' of themselves to become new beings based on Millicent and her sisters' "birth." This is also why the Rot worshipers were after Millicent as the "most beautiful flower" as they wanted Millicent to take the place of Melania as the Goddess of Rot. Since only Empyreans can become gods/goddesses, and they must be "born of a single god" that would make Millicent at least an Empyrean candidate.
However, in the case of Marika and Radagon, they are two aspects of the same body. As Melania and Miquella are CLEARLY stated to be the children of both Radagon AND Marika, the implication is...Marika impregnated herself with Radagon's seed, taking the expression "go fuck yourself" a little literally. Thus, while they were not created through the "budding" processes that Empyreans are supposed to come from, they still technically "come from a single god" so the Greater Will counted it as "I'll allow it, but know that it upsets me."
The one exception to this is Ranni, whom I originally thought was a Marika "bud" that then Radagon used the Rune of Rebirth on so that Rennalla could be impregnated with her; but as shown by Zhullie the Witch, the fried corpse of Ranni's original body still retains Radagon's red hair, marking her as a true child of Radagon. So unless Ranni is a Radagon "bud" then my theory falls flat, though I still suspect Ranni's birth was some sort of experiment done to see if the Greater Will couldn't be "tricked" when it came to Empyrean inheritance, with the true goal being the birth of Melania and Miquella
@@GeneGear them being candidates was not in question... I feel/think Radagon had to have some conflicting reasoning to leave rennala and how marica was never seen in ANY way seen TOGETER standing side by side discussing plans and that's not the kids he had with rennala so I wasn't talking about the twins. That was my point. So idk why tf you feel the need to bring up what you just did.... but ok?
Maybe since they are demigods, they have their own great runes in the non shattered elden ring but they were only tainted by the power when it was shattered
thats my sentence in life" i dont care what the truth is i just want to know"
Yeah… the timeline is a lot larger than what people generally think. Godwyn’s death was quite some time before the shattering, and the birth of Miquella and Malenia brought about the end of the bountiful age prior. Even then, from their births, the Shattering didn’t just right after. It’s a land of no true death, whose rulers are the children of a god - so, like George RR Martin sort of generalized, he was asked to write the history of the Lands Between from the Shattering war all the way back say, 5,000 years ago - which may makes sense given the empire of the Ancient Dragons and pre-Erdtree cultures.
I think they were all present when marika broke the elden ring, took the pieces and fled
Maybe their runes were always there, just not active and the shards of the Elden Ring are like Rune Arcs, and only when the ring was shattered did the runes become active. It was the Elden Ring that prevents the demigods from using their true powers. Marika may have done this so she can war against the outer god instead she was imprisoned and her children warred against each other.
Does this theory stack up?
1. First was the Night of the Black Knives in which Godwyn was murdered.
2. In order to protect her children, Queen Marika gave her children the Great Runes to give them strength.
3. Marika then tricked Maliketh to take the rune of death, to rid the world of destined death, to further protect her children from death and lock him away in Faram Azula.
4. Radagon and Marika disagreed about her actions as the separation of the Elden ring went against the Golden Order, and in the heat of the moment, Marika Shattered the Elden ring. This imprisoned them both and Radagon became Marika to preserve what was left of the Elden Ring.
5. The children realised the great runes gave them great power, and greed ensued and they wanted to claim more of the great runes for themselves in order to make them more powerful, leading to the Shattering War.
I love watching these videos now, mostly because he says stuff that he thinks nothing of, but is %1000 story, while the things he obsesses over don't really matter much at all.
Wasn’t here for the stream, but thanks so much for the vid, see ya next stream.
I always assumed that the Demi Gods were given their great runes. Since apparently the cursed twins were prophesied to have the most sacred runes, as if they'd be born with it or be given them at birth. Because it just doesn't make sense to me that only Marika's children would have great runes. What did she bring them all together to watch her break it then pick them up when she does? Nah it looks like she just broke it out of grief and why would the demi gods be around at that exact moment to grab them?
i always though that the Great Runes were one thing in conjuction with the Elden Ring, so every demigod always had it's runes for being offspring of Marika, or being tied with the Erdtree, they just were one with the entirety of the Elden Ring, once the Elden Ring was broken everyone was free with it's very one aspect, it's very own form of the once whole Elden Ring, those were the Great Runes, to me it also tied the headless demigos in the walking mausoleuns, they all were once part of the Elden Ring and that's why the priimordial Elden Ring that we see in Farum Azula is bigger and with more runes, every being tied to the Erdtree as demigods are part of the Elden Ring with some of it's runes, also when the Shattering happened they became "fallen heroes" and all that because they were cut off from the wholeness of it, funny how grazy you can go with your own theories
Yeah radagon is trying to repair it to what it was, this is shortsighted however as the goldmask ending proves. Marika is however orchestrating her massive plot thingy
Is it possible that as the demigods were born more runes were added to represent the., because all of their runes fot them to a tee, melania wants to be cured so hers heals, godrick wants to become stronger, so his boost all stats, etc.
And when marika shattered the elden ring, the shattered parts went to who they represent/belong to
They tarnished as a people were called back to the lands between. Not the tarnished as individuals. Remember, he said that their ancestors were banished from the lands between.
It's pretty straightforward especially with jrr martin. They overtly say in the game a mother had a plot, did a thing, and urged her children to claim the pieces and fulfill their individual goals. The "thing" she did and the war that began as a result of children pursuing their goals are both called " the shattering", individually. The shattering of a ring and the shattering of a family.
Something can't be "intact" and "partially broken" at the same time.
Radagon had a history of bringing things together between the golden order, the fire giants, and the family he married into. While it isn't stated in the game, it would have been interesting if he was mending the ring to incorporate yet another faction or way of life while she was outright breaking it, but I don't remember anything implying it besides his past behavior.
That first 39 seconds is pretty much my biggest gripe with Souls games. If the story was about 20% more obvious, it would make it 100% better.
idk, piecing the lore together has always been my favorite part of souls.. ASSUMING there is a solid order of events in Miyazaki's personal journal or mind even... then I appreciate the vagueness of what we got. I feel like every obscure element in the game fits with everything else. And that he put enough clues to crack this puzzle box.
... though I won't lie, there's a small part of me that thinks maybe he didn't even know what the big picture is. That would be a bummer considering the effort everyone's put into figuring out the lore
@@k1xnt I get it. I REALLY like it too. But it's just too open. Too unconfirmed. It's like, almost perfect. But not. I think a little would go a long way. It's hands down the best visual story telling of gaming. But often much of what's going on feels very disconnected at first. Until some genius posts a video about all these kinda connected details and then it kinda makes sense. At best. I feel like Bloodborne did it the best though.
@@Tackitt I'm sure the dlc will provide some insights that will help piece things together
I don’t believe she gave it to them. Morgott calls his siblings “willful traitors all”. Suggesting everyone’s grab for power was a sleight against the golden order that did not appear intentional despite marika wanting to destroy the order
I can t stop thinkin about some words said by Ranni in the Trailler:
" The elden ring was shattered, not by who, but why ?"
My english is maybe not good enough, but it seem to mean that the real question is WHY..
What if Radagon and Marika was working together..? Maybe they tried to counter something that would be worst than being punished by the greater will..
Undead are everywhere, maybe they shattered the elden ring to counter em..
Maybe they tried to avoid an age of undead by breaking the elden ring to be sure that the prince of death could not have it..
I think “The Shattering” is used in two different ways.
There is the event, the shattering of the Elden Ring. Then, there is the shattering -war- which happened as a result of the event. Sometimes the term is used ambiguously to refer to these two connected concepts.
game needs dlc to answer all this questions
The godskin apostles killed side branch demigods before Godwin died. The mosoleums were Probubly demigods killed by apostles
It isn't that confusing. Look at everything describing the rune of death "Destined Death" as it is nicknamed in the game and safeguarded by Maliketh and his goons even in their crazed state. It clearly states that Marika broke it off intentionally. The descriptions of the runes give you the damn answer. There is nothing left to really debate. Marika CLEARLY created the runes.
And by created I mean broke off and repurposed parts of the rune that made up the Elden Ring. It is insinuated multiple times that the children and academy were being taken great care of despite playing mr gotchya with Radagon.
I think, that Radagon and the Elden Beast are the same being. Marika is the vessel for the Elden Ring and that means she is the vessel for the Elden Beast because they are the same.
All the thrones are by the eardtree. That’s where they all saw Marika shatter the ring and they all took a piece for themselves out of greed or power or right
Did u notice the guy didn’t answer the first question? He talked a lot and said nothing new or even related to the question. Didnt say what is the elden ring or whats the significance of it being shattered. Kinda pisses me off and sometimes i think they dont even know themselves. They just threw it out there and had us fill in the blanks
I figured all of the demigods were born with their great runes. From malenia's great rune description
This is one of those stories that badly need a prequel of the main event either through visuals, dlc or just a new follow up title about it. ER not as cut and dry as Dark Souls. Far too ambiguous where as Souls the only real answer we still need cleared up is how the dark Soul itself came about precisely.
So if the Great Runes were obtained after the Elden Ring was shattered, I'm a little confused about the Great Rune of the Unborn, does that mean Radagon gifted the rune during the war, cause I was always under the impression he gifted it to her before going back to lyndell to become one with marika
I think Radagon teamed up with the Elden beast to seal Marina away. I think they are combined into one person but clearly they don’t have control all the time. So Marika would do things that Radagon didn’t like, while she was in control, and Radagon knew the only way to stop her was to imprison her. Marika knew that Radagon was going to do some thing of that sort, so she set up a bunch of pieces so that the tarnished could come back and finish the part of her plan that she couldn’t finish herself.
I think Marika always was distrustful of the greater will and having seen the fall of the preceding Dragon Order took out the Glaom Eye-ed Queen and sealed Destined death specifically ensure that she could rule eternally... but left the Glaom Eye-ed Queen aka Melena burned and bodiless so and banished the Tarnished to serve as an exit clause to burn down the Erdtree and end the Golden order if she ever wanted out and then triggered that exit plan after Godwyn's death broke her resolve to keep her order going. Radagon didn't feel the same way but when he couldn't repair the Elden ring he tried to hose Marika's plan by sealing away the Elden Throne but he had already been out maneuvered by Marika who had Melena as her unknown ace in the hole.
It is worthwhile to do some of the deep dives into some of the additional translations that have been done, some of the in game English looks to be not as intended, Ranni's ending for sure.
I thought it happen because there was gonna be a new GOD. Someone got jelly
What if after Godwin the Golden was murdered, Marika shattered the Elden Ring but the ruins didn't scatter. Then the scene in the opening cut scene of Radagon hammering could be him trying to mend the Elden Ring. Then Marika gave the ruins to the other Demi-gods and it was after she gave away the ruins that she was imprisoned.
Now we just need to figure out who Vike defeated to get his two great runes.
the big gate above the entrance to the erdtree where marikas is haning, shows a big elden ring with runes, feeding the erdtree, i havent found any video saying something about that gate
Hold on, couldn't the receiving the great rune and obtaining of the mad power be two separate events? I remember there was dialog in the game where marika talks to her children and tells them they will be sacrifices. It sounded to me like she game them the runes but they didn't get power from them until marika shattered the elden ring. Once it was shattered the demigods got the power and went crazy.
He uses the words, "inherited the mad taint power of the shards once it was shattered"... this may be mincing words, but hr doesn't tell you if they had the shards in hand or not when the elden ring was shattered.
@@EngMasta "In Marika's own words. Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices..."
"Soon (after the Night of the Black Knives), Marika's offspring, demigods all, claimed the shards of the Elden Ring.
The mad taint of their newfound strength triggered the Shattering."
There's enough unhinged rambling around ER lore as is, with the script in hand. Muddying the waters even further with this kind of misconceptions based on half-memories is something absolutely nobody needs. Be precise, or be quiet.
Great video, loved the runescape song btw.
Was a pretty fun stream. Glad to be a part of it and share ideas.
So if shattering "created" great runes, then how only demi gods obtained them? Shouldn't be there at least one random that found it?
Literally knew everything you saud
Consider this...was Radagon (going on the theory that Radagon is Marika) just a puppet when he tried to fix the shattered Elden Ring but failed?
If so then whose puppet before and after failure?
And was it not the Shattered Elden Ring that beckoned the Tarnished to return according to Miyazaki?
Or perhaps it is the Erdtree that beckons?
Miyazaki: "Then a long time after that, the Elden Ring was shattered in a historical event. This triggers the return of this lost grace and it calls out to the Tarnished, who were once exiled from The Lands Between, and it guides them back."
Why? When it was the Tarnished ancestors who lost grace/the blessing and were banished.
I thought it was pretty obvious from item descriptions and dialogs that Marika shattered the ring, distributed its more powerful remains to her kiddos, and then they fought a war for domination.
Came for elden ring lore, subbed for rs music
Sad that I got to miss this stream but I’m glad we got to open the conversation in the previous one!
i had just assumed they were all born with great runes
I leaned toward "Given"
I also think she dropped the ring by accident. She was doing dishes or something and fell into the garbage disposal
I haven't watched. This video but I was always under the impression that queen marika shattered the elden ring for reasons only known to her and I was also under the impression she gave the runes to her children but her children wanted more they started to squabble over it. Also marika was imprisoned so she can't really mediate. Also the battle was between step siblings. Between radagon and renalas childrens and marika and radagons children.
Holy shit, is that Runescape music? That brought me back
I mean. The runes are a part of the elden ring. You can clearly see them. How can someone take pieces of it without breaking it lol. All that was left was the bottom circle. The rest of the circle are the currency we use.
I think it’s also important to remember this is probably gonna be a series so there will be probably tons of new revelations.
FromSoft have made it clear that they are not interested in sequels unless they feel they reay have to ever since the success of BB and Sekiro. As far as Elden Ring goes, its not done yet as we await DLC or multiple DLCs and thats their focus now. Elden Ring 2 if happening, hasn't even been started yet. The second factor is Bandai Namco and their willingness to take this franchise further which surprisingly they do not for a lot of their IPs. Only if the 2 conditions are satisfied will we see a Elden Ring 2 but tbh it wasn;t even designed to be one as tropes used are for a very self contained story and setting. I know the fan base will grasp at straws and insist that every game is connected somehow but really, you can connect a lotta things with enough mental gymnastics if you want to. TLDR : Chances of ELDEN RING 2 is low but not impossible
0:25 This is the anxiety the early church fathers felt when writing. 😅
So the Elden Ring is basically a conjunction of all the great runes, I can't help but think that each demigod was more or less responsible for their own rune. The Conjunction symbolizes the point when all the demigods stood together in their alignments. Marika's shattering is literally the night of black knives and the slaying of Goldwyn, turning(shattering) the demigods against her...
NVM, after listening further... I'm obviously wrong...
Love this new editing style
I wanna know how queen Marcia and radagon are the same person like how are they the same person we’re did radagon come from and how did queen Marcia end up in the tree at the end of the game
So I will say I don't disagree with the premise that Marika shattered the Elden Ring and the then the great runes were fought over...
I do disagree with the hard stance that the runes couldn't have been given to demigods before hand. My biggest counter there is Radagon gave Rennala the great rune of rebirth before returning to Marika, something that timeline wise should have been before the shattering.
So there is precedence for giving great runes to others before the shattering. Now the lore implications for Radagon being the one to do so and doing it before the rejoining of Marika I will leave to other lore affecionados.
I always thought that they had their own great rune before the shattering. Because Ranni cast off her own rune before her physical death
Personally I think the people of the lands between came to that conclusion since she wasn't found after the night of the black knives
@@schmuckers4955 It was Gideon who said it
@@wildbard4112 Correct but he's supposedly the All Knowing, meaning he's one of the most knowledgeable people who has come to that conclusion despite her absence after the black knives
@@schmuckers4955 that's just a title, he doesn't know everything. In fact: he doesn't know a whole lot considering everything we tell him that he doesn't know.
@@FallenFromGlory But he does tell us information we wouldn't know, and he's been in the lands between for awhile and had time to speculate and he's looking for the shard bearers more than almost anyone else and he came to that conclusion
What I don't get.. is how did other tarnish collect great runes lol like which ones did they get
Watching this video with subtitles is hilarious 😂😂 queen America
5000 years ago according to RR Martin
Are the runes that each character fought for and the held mean anything to that character? Is there a reason for why they would go for a certain rune?
The next real questions are, are the Great ruins: which are literal pieces of the Elden Ring also literal pieces of Marika? I mean when we find her we find her corpse is literally shattered and the Elden Ring is synonymous with Marika and the Greater Will, so it seems that way. When the Great ruins are obtained by her offspring and also us are we actually obtaining pieces of Marika herself, are we obtaining the power of a God from her actual corpse? This leads to the most important question, What is the Elden Ring exactly? Is it the power of a God to shape reality and the rules of nature? What exactly is it and why does obtaining a piece of it corrupt all who touch it besides us the Tarnished?
I think they were both in it...