I think there are a lot of consumers out there who don't care to learn anything about how professions work, so this makes it easier to explain to them how their craft will be completed. I think it's very healthy and especially when combined with the NPC work orders, should allow for a lot less RNG. With that being said, ingenuity brings another RNG element that throws a wrench into our plans. Having the concentration recover quickly will be good, especially for players like me that are guild crafters. Wish there was a minigame or something we could do to generate concentration faster.
I feel like professions are useless now even the gathering ones as the materials aren’t being bought at any price worth the time spent to gather them, I’ve started just using two gathering professions for the extra experience gained while levelling in world then vendoring for whatever their worth.
Looks like inspiration is still there..? Getting the feel of Concentration replacing insight moreso, if inspiration is still relevant. And also expecting craters to charge for using Concentration.
You know, alienating the majority of the player base to appease dedicated crafters doesn't seem like the long-term smart move. I all but gave up on professions in Dragonflight because of how tedious it became, and it doesn't look like things are letting up with War Within.
What was tedious about it? I’d agree digging a few dirt piles was dumb, but apart from that the lions share of knowledge was just 10 minutes of questing per week and craft 3 items from work orders sent from an alt or guildmate that took 2 minutes.
Wait, I thought Inspiration was being replaced? Yet I still see Inspiration as a skill in the crafting details. So, why does Inspiration still exist and what is it now used for?
By the way, did anyone see the Phial of Focused Inspiration? Text says "Drink to [INSPIRATION REWORK MECHANIC]". It also says it lasts for 30 mins. I'm wondering how exactly it will work.
It seems like this change will destroy the business of high profile crafters who just sit in Valdrakken spamming for work. Won’t it spread the workload for max level crafts to more crafters? I wonder if it will make max crafts cost more and be harder to find a crafter.
When they replace BOP with BOE then I'll give a fist bump. I'm not wasting mats on an item that cost more to make just to vendor it for less then what it's worth. I'm a crafter, what I craft I want to sell to others. That's all I want, no more no less.
@scorpogee6280 That's what fulfilling crafter orders are, to craft stuff for others for profit. Otherwise, that stuff is gonna get exploited for higher prices by the gold farmers. At least now there is a direct line of sorts to get crafters to make yer stuff for profit set by both the one asking for it and hopefully for a price deemed acceptable to a crafter.
@@SoulSoBreezy yes, but no. Like inspiration but you have a buffer (conc pts) to store up the effect of an inspiration proc, and then release that effect on a chosen craft. Like would you rather have a gear upgrade system that's like "ok it's been 6 days take these free flightstones for logging in and use them now or you won't get any next week" or a system that more like "just play the game and we'll reward your engagement with flightstones as you play"?
@@SoulSoBreezy with concentration you get handed points on a timer and you use them until they're depleted. Ingenuity helps it deplete slower, but once it's gone you're just done until the timer rolls over. If the problem with Inspiration is "I'll craft this for you, but it may cost more or less depending on luck" The problem with Concentration is going to be "Sorry [blacksmithing alt 6] is out of crafting juice, go place an order with [blacksmithing alt 7] who still has points left today" Of those two, which one sounds like it encourages degenerate gameplay?
@@bj_ An alt army is currently the gold goblin's best bet to game the new system, as long as every crafter has its own concentration pool per profession.
I feel like they have made crafting too complicated. By the time that you get the mats and are able to research most recipes, the items are useless. It used to be that you were able to actually wear the gear that you crafted because you were able to collect mats and make the item when you are still at a level for it to be useful. Now most recipes you make just to level up and then either try to sell them or disenchant.
@@keithb6344 Time gated skill points. People will run M+ and Raids for gear way faster then crafters can gain the skill points to make comparable items.
typical blizzard oversystemitising something that doesnt need to be, do you have the pattern yes, is your profession max, yes, do you have the correct mats, yes cool you can craft at max rank.
until we get mad that the no-lifer who stays on 26hrs/day has the market cornered and we don't have a chance Simplifying professions sounds like a good idea until we realize that there're other people playing the game
@@SoulSoBreezy I dont remember that being such a big issue when the patterns were from the profession trainers and you didnt need to grind out renown levels to learn them or farm for knowledge to fill out a tech tree. The different ranks/levels from rep in Legion and BFA just reduced the materials needed to craft the item not it's stats, the appropriate expansion equivalent of a spark determined it's level. But I always just had guildies or an alt do the crafting then. The crafting order system side of the dragonflight profession system would have fixed one of the major sticking points with BFA's crafting, everything of any use was soulbound in BFA, crafters couldn't sell their wears even if they wanted to.
I only half agree about the recipes being behind renown/rep. There's a certain RP value learning a recipe from more than just a transactional exchange with a trainer.
Unlike previous expansions we can craft gear for any slot at just below peak item level. If left uncontrolled crafting would simply be the only practical option towards gearing up. This generation of crafting is also much more accessible than earlier crafted gear that you claim is easier.
@@SoulSoBreezy if crafting is so much more accessible, then why have so many players actually eschewed crafting because of its unnecessary complexity… why is complexity, (e.g., no catch up skill mechanism, horrendous and exclusionary grinds, forced to hover over a broken order system, forced to endlessly bark in trade chat vice actually playing the game, blizzard/government controlled economy resulting in the creation of oligarchies) needed and, now I guess, being extolled by influencers… and purported as “fun”… excluding vast tracks of folks, whose interest is only crafting in support of game play, can no longer participate because their 10-12 hours per week, to maintain balance with the real world, is now forced to EITHER craft or raid/ m+ dungeon / PVP / world content? Crafting was a great SUPPORT system that was taken away for a select few to now dominate… I got COVID and was hospitalized for extreme UTI, I still have 30 more skill points, taking yet weeks of grind before I can finally make gear that can’t really be used but at the start of an expansion that has already passed… again, how is that fun and enjoyable to the vast group of players? You can achieve your goals WITHOUT the hazing of complexity, capped grinds, and time wasting mechanisms (I.e., government controlled economy)?
There are critical points about professions that I'm campaigning for to help curb that feeling of "complexity" that turned people off when confronted with the changes. Resolving that with better tooltips to point out the relationship between specializations and related recipes would go a really long way. But the undeniable fact is that DF crafting lets crafters be far more flexibile than they ever have been in an expansion, with numerous specializations that might not have anything to do with work orders or trade chat; I found success with characters that I spent only a few hours on who consistently produce results, all on the auction house. Just like you I'm sharing some anecdotal experience but there is a bright side. the challenge is taking this system and figuring out how it'll work for you - looking before leaping - and what'll help is a bit more information on the game's part, along with some patience and thoughtfulness.
For 20 years crafting was pretty useless and boring. Now it’s actually extremely useful and a big part of bad luck protection for all players. There are many content pillars in wow and players can pick which ones they want to participate in. Not everyone needs to be a crafter. We just enough to handle the crafting order requests and that hasn’t been a problem.
@@SoulSoBreezy I am having a real hard time understanding how you conflate flexibility and complexity… all we had to do was farm or buy resources, collect them from any mailbox anywhere in the world, send the product to a bank character, go to an AH, know EXACTLY what the market was, and sell the item…. Now I have to be at a crafting table, or an orders clerk… people have no freaking idea what the cost is, folks in my son’s guild are so pissed off at the gouging, they just craft it for free, destroying whatever market there was on that server, folks have to go to a town and magically be available to hear someone barking or do the barking, when all they had to do in the past was look at the AH, at whatever hour they were able to play… all blizzard had to do was stop making us make useless crap to skill up, allow us to make good gear AT THE BEGINNING OF AN EXPANSION WHEN ITS NEEDED not after weeks of rep grinding and making useless crap… the end result has been fewer people crafting, oligarchies established, wow token purchasing way up making the game pay to play and cutting off youth joining the game, clients pissed off, time massively wasted, portions of the crafting game totally destroyed… bottom line, if you can play all day, you’re a happy camper, but if you have to live in the real world, you are limited systemically and reduced to making consumables at best…. I went to West Point when physical hazing was outlawed and mental hazing became an unfortunate byproduct… all this new system is, is a hazing system on steroids… let’s start with: a more useful skill up that allows you to make things people actually want, drop the knowledge points by 90%, put a catchup mechanism from the start, get rid of the order and craft table requirements, return professions to the support position it was (I mean we have aug dragons, it’s a concept they are familiar with) and get rid of any mechanism hiding the true costs of making a product to both the crafter and the client… people settle for crap items when they really just want the best… why force the making of crap items? Why useless complexity? There are better ways to make mouse traps…
I think there are a lot of consumers out there who don't care to learn anything about how professions work, so this makes it easier to explain to them how their craft will be completed. I think it's very healthy and especially when combined with the NPC work orders, should allow for a lot less RNG. With that being said, ingenuity brings another RNG element that throws a wrench into our plans. Having the concentration recover quickly will be good, especially for players like me that are guild crafters. Wish there was a minigame or something we could do to generate concentration faster.
it seems like it will work similar to Illustrious Insight, but on a timer instead of using mats.
Artisan's Mettle is the timer for Illustrious Insight
I feel like professions are useless now even the gathering ones as the materials aren’t being bought at any price worth the time spent to gather them, I’ve started just using two gathering professions for the extra experience gained while levelling in world then vendoring for whatever their worth.
Looks like inspiration is still there..? Getting the feel of Concentration replacing insight moreso, if inspiration is still relevant. And also expecting craters to charge for using Concentration.
You know, alienating the majority of the player base to appease dedicated crafters doesn't seem like the long-term smart move. I all but gave up on professions in Dragonflight because of how tedious it became, and it doesn't look like things are letting up with War Within.
What was tedious about it? I’d agree digging a few dirt piles was dumb, but apart from that the lions share of knowledge was just 10 minutes of questing per week and craft 3 items from work orders sent from an alt or guildmate that took 2 minutes.
I’m guessing concentration points will end up having a quantifiable gold value per point, the same way mettle currently has.
Wait, I thought Inspiration was being replaced? Yet I still see Inspiration as a skill in the crafting details. So, why does Inspiration still exist and what is it now used for?
Alpha, bug, etc.
Is concentration being applied to DF crafting too (replacing insp) or just TWW crafting?
No
By the way, did anyone see the Phial of Focused Inspiration? Text says "Drink to [INSPIRATION REWORK MECHANIC]". It also says it lasts for 30 mins.
I'm wondering how exactly it will work.
There're a few items in the alpha that affect ingenuity but the list is hardly comprehensive
The inspiration 5% on UI is just a bug, or it's just still there?
bug
Does anybody know how's regenrate rate of concentration per day/hour?
It seems like this change will destroy the business of high profile crafters who just sit in Valdrakken spamming for work. Won’t it spread the workload for max level crafts to more crafters? I wonder if it will make max crafts cost more and be harder to find a crafter.
Is testable if concentration is warband bound or specific to one profession of one character?
It should be linked to the profession per character
@@johnj4471 disagree, it should be warband bound to specific proffession not to monopolize the market
@@whitehatted7267 that wasn’t an opinion. It was a supposition based on what we’ve seen.
Regardless your opinion is also poor.
lol that would almost mean that a whole battle.net account would be limited to just one profession to be productive, don't think that'd fly
@@SoulSoBreezy well, otherwise alt armies will monopolize the market
When they replace BOP with BOE then I'll give a fist bump. I'm not wasting mats on an item that cost more to make just to vendor it for less then what it's worth. I'm a crafter, what I craft I want to sell to others. That's all I want, no more no less.
That's how it is now
@scorpogee6280 That's what fulfilling crafter orders are, to craft stuff for others for profit. Otherwise, that stuff is gonna get exploited for higher prices by the gold farmers. At least now there is a direct line of sorts to get crafters to make yer stuff for profit set by both the one asking for it and hopefully for a price deemed acceptable to a crafter.
TBH: the chance to gain concentration should happen with any craft, even if concentration wasn't used in the craft!!!!
so inspiration? lol
@@SoulSoBreezy yes, but no. Like inspiration but you have a buffer (conc pts) to store up the effect of an inspiration proc, and then release that effect on a chosen craft.
Like would you rather have a gear upgrade system that's like "ok it's been 6 days take these free flightstones for logging in and use them now or you won't get any next week" or a system that more like "just play the game and we'll reward your engagement with flightstones as you play"?
you're basically re-describing concentration and ingenuity, and I'm not sure where you're going with your followup comparison
@@SoulSoBreezy with concentration you get handed points on a timer and you use them until they're depleted. Ingenuity helps it deplete slower, but once it's gone you're just done until the timer rolls over.
If the problem with Inspiration is "I'll craft this for you, but it may cost more or less depending on luck"
The problem with Concentration is going to be "Sorry [blacksmithing alt 6] is out of crafting juice, go place an order with [blacksmithing alt 7] who still has points left today"
Of those two, which one sounds like it encourages degenerate gameplay?
@@bj_ An alt army is currently the gold goblin's best bet to game the new system, as long as every crafter has its own concentration pool per profession.
Disagree with the suggested change to racials. Dwarves in particular are known for crafting well......don't take that away to feel even.
I feel like they have made crafting too complicated. By the time that you get the mats and are able to research most recipes, the items are useless. It used to be that you were able to actually wear the gear that you crafted because you were able to collect mats and make the item when you are still at a level for it to be useful. Now most recipes you make just to level up and then either try to sell them or disenchant.
Most things were only good for the first patch then crafting was mostly useless for gear. Now it lasts the whole expac because you can upgrade it.
@@keithb6344 Time gated skill points. People will run M+ and Raids for gear way faster then crafters can gain the skill points to make comparable items.
@@darksensai1184 m+ and raiders often have at least 2 crafted pieces for the embellishments. It’s why everyone gets sparks.
@@keithb6344 True but to upgrade you need to get the crests from raids/dungeons and many people don't run them because of the toxicity.
@@jaklg7905 Well those many people will now have Delves as an option instead of raids/dungeons.
I am like number 41
Oh boy, another clusterfuck. People giving you quality 1 or 2 mats making you use more concentration. What a joke.
Then you woulda/coulda/shoulda asked for R3 mats? Simply expecting it is the joke.
It all seems Rube Goldberg complicated.
I feel bad for you then.
Blizzard Crafting taking the FUN out of gaming!
typical blizzard oversystemitising something that doesnt need to be, do you have the pattern yes, is your profession max, yes, do you have the correct mats, yes cool you can craft at max rank.
until we get mad that the no-lifer who stays on 26hrs/day has the market cornered and we don't have a chance
Simplifying professions sounds like a good idea until we realize that there're other people playing the game
@@SoulSoBreezy I dont remember that being such a big issue when the patterns were from the profession trainers and you didnt need to grind out renown levels to learn them or farm for knowledge to fill out a tech tree.
The different ranks/levels from rep in Legion and BFA just reduced the materials needed to craft the item not it's stats, the appropriate expansion equivalent of a spark determined it's level.
But I always just had guildies or an alt do the crafting then.
The crafting order system side of the dragonflight profession system would have fixed one of the major sticking points with BFA's crafting, everything of any use was soulbound in BFA, crafters couldn't sell their wears even if they wanted to.
I only half agree about the recipes being behind renown/rep. There's a certain RP value learning a recipe from more than just a transactional exchange with a trainer.
Professions are too complicated and are just way too much hassle for the average player.
Not really
I hope someone is out there making content to help people who are interested in learning.
Seems pretty easy from the clients point of view. Look up what u need in the panel, add mats and a tip, hit send. 🤷♂️
So why have concentration at all? Why make crafting soooo difficult? How is this fun? We haven’t needed this for 20 years… now all the complexity?
Unlike previous expansions we can craft gear for any slot at just below peak item level. If left uncontrolled crafting would simply be the only practical option towards gearing up.
This generation of crafting is also much more accessible than earlier crafted gear that you claim is easier.
@@SoulSoBreezy if crafting is so much more accessible, then why have so many players actually eschewed crafting because of its unnecessary complexity… why is complexity, (e.g., no catch up skill mechanism, horrendous and exclusionary grinds, forced to hover over a broken order system, forced to endlessly bark in trade chat vice actually playing the game, blizzard/government controlled economy resulting in the creation of oligarchies) needed and, now I guess, being extolled by influencers… and purported as “fun”… excluding vast tracks of folks, whose interest is only crafting in support of game play, can no longer participate because their 10-12 hours per week, to maintain balance with the real world, is now forced to EITHER craft or raid/ m+ dungeon / PVP / world content? Crafting was a great SUPPORT system that was taken away for a select few to now dominate… I got COVID and was hospitalized for extreme UTI, I still have 30 more skill points, taking yet weeks of grind before I can finally make gear that can’t really be used but at the start of an expansion that has already passed… again, how is that fun and enjoyable to the vast group of players? You can achieve your goals WITHOUT the hazing of complexity, capped grinds, and time wasting mechanisms (I.e., government controlled economy)?
There are critical points about professions that I'm campaigning for to help curb that feeling of "complexity" that turned people off when confronted with the changes. Resolving that with better tooltips to point out the relationship between specializations and related recipes would go a really long way.
But the undeniable fact is that DF crafting lets crafters be far more flexibile than they ever have been in an expansion, with numerous specializations that might not have anything to do with work orders or trade chat; I found success with characters that I spent only a few hours on who consistently produce results, all on the auction house.
Just like you I'm sharing some anecdotal experience but there is a bright side. the challenge is taking this system and figuring out how it'll work for you - looking before leaping - and what'll help is a bit more information on the game's part, along with some patience and thoughtfulness.
For 20 years crafting was pretty useless and boring. Now it’s actually extremely useful and a big part of bad luck protection for all players. There are many content pillars in wow and players can pick which ones they want to participate in. Not everyone needs to be a crafter. We just enough to handle the crafting order requests and that hasn’t been a problem.
@@SoulSoBreezy I am having a real hard time understanding how you conflate flexibility and complexity… all we had to do was farm or buy resources, collect them from any mailbox anywhere in the world, send the product to a bank character, go to an AH, know EXACTLY what the market was, and sell the item…. Now I have to be at a crafting table, or an orders clerk… people have no freaking idea what the cost is, folks in my son’s guild are so pissed off at the gouging, they just craft it for free, destroying whatever market there was on that server, folks have to go to a town and magically be available to hear someone barking or do the barking, when all they had to do in the past was look at the AH, at whatever hour they were able to play… all blizzard had to do was stop making us make useless crap to skill up, allow us to make good gear AT THE BEGINNING OF AN EXPANSION WHEN ITS NEEDED not after weeks of rep grinding and making useless crap… the end result has been fewer people crafting, oligarchies established, wow token purchasing way up making the game pay to play and cutting off youth joining the game, clients pissed off, time massively wasted, portions of the crafting game totally destroyed… bottom line, if you can play all day, you’re a happy camper, but if you have to live in the real world, you are limited systemically and reduced to making consumables at best…. I went to West Point when physical hazing was outlawed and mental hazing became an unfortunate byproduct… all this new system is, is a hazing system on steroids… let’s start with: a more useful skill up that allows you to make things people actually want, drop the knowledge points by 90%, put a catchup mechanism from the start, get rid of the order and craft table requirements, return professions to the support position it was (I mean we have aug dragons, it’s a concept they are familiar with) and get rid of any mechanism hiding the true costs of making a product to both the crafter and the client… people settle for crap items when they really just want the best… why force the making of crap items? Why useless complexity? There are better ways to make mouse traps…