You forgot DM: "You all finish your short rest." Bard "My bardic inspiration is recovered!" Warlock "I get all my spell slots back!" Sorcerer "... I'm happy for you guys."
@@cloudetix At first, I really liked this answer, but then I remembered you can't use more than one Metamagic option most of the time. Definitely go ahead and use Subtle Spell and save the points from Twinned Spell and hit them individually when they're not expecting it.
Really you should be afraid of the storm sorcerer when he gets a bladesinger,fighter or some other kind of really tanky apprentice. He will scream unlimited power and cast haste on the tank.
Remember kids, Sorcerer can turn off Spellcasters by casting Silence, causing them to not fulfill the verbal components to spells, which most have. The sorcerer is the only spellcaster that can overcome this by grabbing Subtle spell, bypassing the verbal component needed. "I'm the only one who casts fireball in this house."
@@vincentlanderos962 true that's why divine soul is the exception. It made the sorcerer good enough. Not great but good enough. Now the tasha's stuff makes the sorcerer an A tier class where I would say it was a low B or high C previous
@@kingfail3819 Please never use careful spells on aoe damage spells. Your party will hate you. Use careful spell on save or suck aoe's like Web and Hypnotic Pattern. Burning Hands isn't even a good spell. Thunderwave is a bigger area, only does 1.5 less damage and has an added push effect. Only take Burning Hands if you're a fire based draconic sorcerer, but even then, by the time you do more damage with fire spells, you have fireball so...
1:23 The rogue was so profoundly and deeply disturbed by this revelation that he forgot to keep his face cloaked in mysterious shadows. Such trauma shall make a fine addition to his tragic backstory.
"And I... get a single new spell" "Oh, that's an interesting reflection of your character. What are you going to take?" "It doesn't matter, because I'm still only going to cast Empowered Burning Hands"
Burnong hand Is the coolest spell. To bad there isn't a mega-burning hand like in 3.5 side manual (I think the perfect arcanist). Basically same damage as fireball, but same animation as burning hands and with a bigger range, from 4.5m cone (15 feets) to 18 meters cone (around 60 feets). It was a super cool spell to deal with huge amount of enemies and close range, like 20-30 people, the only problem Is that you can't exclude Friends from spell damage in 3.5, so with sorcerer and mage being a backline It was most lickely impossible to use without hitting the whole party.
@@michaelp3609 What do you mean tasha's sorcerer is best? Tasha's basically added nothing valuable to the sorcerer's kit. Transmuted spell is nearly useless other than avoiding resistance to fire on AoEs like burning hands. Seeking spell is "I'm going to spend 2 sorcery points (which is insanely expensive) to reroll an attack." Not succeed, REROLL. At level 4 you can fix a mistake you made picking cantrips or metamagics. Just fixing mistakes. At level 5 you can expend precious sorcery points for ability checks. Why? Neat to have, but nothing huge. That's all it changed. It didn't help sorcerer nearly at all. Sorcerers are still extremely painful to play.
@@TaismoFanBoy That's one way to look at it. Another way is to notice that both sorcerer subclasses in Tasha's get 10-11 free spells known from the warlock, sorcerer, and wizard spell lists, far outpacing the number of wizard prepared spells. The other benefits are the cherry on top. Fire sorcerers can change spell damage type to fire, sorcerers can leave out quicken and heighten until 4th, which are not wrong choices but rather are generally too expensive at low levels, and 5th lets them reroll failed counterspells. In short, Tasha's sorcerer = best 5e sorcerer.
In a game I'm currently DMing we have a Wild Magic sorcerer. Knowing the spell list issue I thought it a fun idea to give him a system outside of the class to get new spells. Essentially in my world Wild Magic Sorcerers are so in tune with the weave that they can absorb these things called Arcane Wells or places where the weave and the material world mix. Each well has a list of three spells that can be gained from it as well as a small boon for the character. The first one was a fungus themed one that gave them Ray of Sickness, Blindness/Deafness, and Animate Dead with a boon that lets them get a zombie made from a humanoid they kill with magic. (Only one at a time, though) He recently got a compass that points to the nearest well so that's gonna be fun.
That is an incredible idea! It eases the pain of knowing next to no spells, it gives the character a mission to improve themself, and maybe even something to protect from corrupted sorcerers! My DM has something similar with raw magical essence created from an ancient dragon, giving greater powers the more you have of the orbs, but it also clearly corrupts the people that ingest it. You and my DM must think alike, and I am so happy your player has a DM like you!
I had one sorcerer home brew that allowed them to make concentration checks to get new spells it spell like abilities if they were hit with them. There was a limit on how many a level. But it was really fun for the player
The only reason I started to pay a full sorcerer is with the Aberrant mind that gives an expended known spells list. Every sorcerer subclass should have one.
Lower levels Divine Soul Sorcerer is still fun. Twinning Guiding Bolt and following it up with Spiritual Weapon (with advantage) is a nice combo. Casting Aid on your party and using Extend Spell before a long rest means additional hit points remain for 8 hours after you finish your long rest and get slots back, works well with Death Ward too. Or Extend Aura of Vitality, now 10 rounds of 2d6 healing is 20 rounds of 2d6 healing for only 1 sorcery point. Obvious downside, you now have 2 spell lists and still very few spells known.
Ahh yes. I can't risk using one of my precious REAL spell slots in case I need to Counterspell or Dispel Magic! I mean, Eldrich Blast is going to do more damage than any of my 'real' spells would anyway, so it isn't a huge loss, but one of these days I'm going to cast an AOE spell and everyone isn't going to immediately pass their saves and just walk out of it, and it's going to be epic! I mean, it didn't happen at all last year, or the year before, but this year is the year!...Probably!
This is why I give sorcerer the spell point variant by default. Utility spells finally feel worth their known spells slot when you can cast them many times w/o up-casting. Having so few known spells doesn't feel as bad when you can cast your high-level spells more times than a wizard can. And most importantly, you can actually use meta-magic at low- and middle-levels.
That feels like what the sorcer should have had from the beginning, making them diffrent from wizards while also being able to modfy thier spells out of the gate. Slap on a spell list on every origin and you have a fun class whom plays very diffrently from the wizard
honestly a great combo since you can spend sorcerer points if it's something like banishing smite give them disadvantage on the save with *Heightened Spell*.
@@ancientreddragon5617 I'm sure others will let you know but....that's not how that works at all. Twinned spell works on spells that target 1 creature (like Hold Person). Fireball does not target 1 creature, it targets a point of your choosing and therefore can't be twin spelled. Or in other words: only hitting 1 creature =/= only targeting 1 creature.
As a sorcerer, I really feel this. The first time I played sorcerer, a.k.a. when I was a baby d&d player, I felt really underwhelming compared to my wizard friend who took almost the exact same spells and like 13 additional spells. My group gets around this by giving all sorcerers origin spells.
I think the thing about sorcerers is that metamagic was really powerful back in 3.5. You could, for example, maximize the damage of a spell (that 8d6 fireball? Straight just 48 damage). Quicken could also cast all levels of spells. (2 fireballs for 16d6 damage? Yes please.) Maybe Sorcerers feel underwhelming because of that.
@@filipevasconcelos4409 Metamagic was available to all casters at the cost of a feat in 3.5. Sorcerers had the restriction that if they cast a metamagic'd spell, they had to use their whole turn to do it, essentially making Quicken Spell useless for them. Sorcerers have always felt underpowered, because WotC overestimates the utility of being able to cast all 5 of your spells at will vs having to select which 8 of your 15 spells you want to be able to use today.
@@filipevasconcelos4409 I think a bigger difference is just spells known. a pf1e(3.75) sorcerer at level 6 knows 5 first level 3 second level and 1 thrid level spells for 8 total, while having bloodline powers still. A 5e sorc has 7 total. At low levels this difference is small but it grows each and every level. By 20th level the total spell count is 43 vs 15, not even close.
At least Tasha's expands the spell list for all Sorcs, even ones from pre-Tashas. Bigsby's Hand, for example, used to be a Wizard only spell, but Tashas has added it as an option for any Sorc.
@@arikaaa69 Known. You get two spells at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th level. So a 66% increase from base, pretty much automatically making it better than every other subclass except ARGUABLY Divine Soul.
Sorcerer was my first class to play because I was told I could basically cheese the system with spell slots by getting quickened spell and using sorcery points. Level 17, 2 years later and I have no regrets for this class. I do admit getting a single spell every level was hard at first...
As someone who started out playing a sorcerer, yeah it was kinda boring barely getting stuff via level ups. Still fun to play just wish they got more stuff more frequently in comparison to other stuff.
Only in Baldurs gate is it worth playing if you want something simple that tends to go off the rails quickly with just spell sniper and alert. And also pass almost all charisma checks But for the tabletop, always picking wizard for pure caster
I kinda miss the old Metamagic rules tbh from 3.p. Really wish 5e focused more on sorcerer origins instead of making "metamagic" their big shtick. Metamagic always felt like a wizard thing to me moreover, just cause they're all about learning new kinds of magic. Getting a free spell of slots 1-5 based on your origin would've been nice too.
Eh, I kinda hated the prepared spells thing of 3.5. Considering that the whole thing of sorcerer origionally was just not having that restriction, I would say that only focusing on orgins wouldn't give them enough. Plus since meta magic costs a feat which you only get every three levels, and the fact that you had to prepare the metamagic ahead of time, it just didn't seem worth it.
@@bestaround3323 in PF you could get a metamagic every other level, and some origins (bloodlines) also had em available as bonus spells. The ability for anyone to take metamagic is neat. I wish that it were more like a fighting style, and just sorcerers maybe had more resources to use it.
@@bestaround3323 There's very few things I like about 5e over 3.5 or Pathfinder, but I will admit, Prepared Spells in 3.5 is awful, I will always prefer how 5e does it. That being said, 3.5 is still better with metamagic. Any caster can get them, the only ones that have to prepare them beforehand are prepared casters (ie Wizards), and they're honestly just supplimental to actual castings. Sorceror's in 3.5 and Pathfinder actually feel unique compared to 5e, for the fact when you choose your bloodline, you get specific powers based off it, you get extra spells based off it, and you get bonus feats based off it. 5e is weak as fuck compared to 3.5.
@@butcanyoudothis3320 I couldn't disagree more having run many games both systems. In 5e the universal preparation is barely kept in check by the new concentration mechanics and the weaker spells. Pathfinder and 3.5 are more about spells being keys with problems being keyholes, the right solutions for the right problems. In 5e you are basically guaranteed to have as many spells of the type you need as you need them so long as you don't mindlessly spam. The idea of preparing for general day/specific purpose is basically gone with most wizards and divine casters keeping >90% of the same list every day to the exact spell especially as 5e's smaller set of valid spells combines with this to result in every wizard ive seen regardless of school being basically the same in terms of casting. (also no more school slots rip). Sorcerers versatility within a day was a decent (though imperfect) balance to wizards versatility between days, in 5e even the most heavy handed sorcerer buffs and giving it exclusive use of metamagic leaves it worse relative to the 5e wizard than the pf sorcerer was to the pf wizard.
@@janehrahan5116 Like I said, I will always prefer how spells were prepared in 5e. That's it. I find it more intuitive, and frankly, easier to keep up with. That's it. What you're arguing is about spellcasting as a whole, which isn't what I was ever going on about. Besides our disagreement, I majorly agree with you, as I stated there's very few things I like about 5e over 3.5 or Pathfinder.
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@@nielsdejong I'm aware of the homebrew fixes and as a DM I've mixed a few to my liking but players gotta go with whatever the DM likes best and often they just prefer raw
Sorceror might be weak by itself, but it's probably the best multi-class in 5e. Sorcadin, Sorlock, or Sorc+Any Martial Class all work quite well and definitely make for some of the most interesting combat rounds. Extra Attack + Quickened spells should not be underestimated.
True, but multiclass itself is an optional rule, and one that is basically a gateway to powerful builds based on min-maxing and such. Not dissing mutliclassing, but that's like saying "Well if I mix this hot sauce with peppers then its gonna be even spicer." You shouldn't have to take another class in order to be a good class.
@@tylerp.5004 This is true. Classes should stand on their own even if multiclassing is fun and should always be allowed unless you want to offer serious homebrews. Because some things just don't work without multiclassing. Its not about power. Its about concepts.
Sorcerer: (pissing on the campaign antagonist) You like that? Antagonist: Harder mommy- Sorcerer: (pulls up pants) What? Antagonist: (takes 5 acid damage) What?
yeah twined polymorph is great, also try the one into a t rex and an enemy into a sheep. Watch hilarity ensue. Also give enemies abound from zanathar's a shot with twin especially against ranged combatants. Your GM will not be amused.
Yet I still love playing sorcerer. I'm a shadow sorcerer in my campaign. I love it! She's so cool! (Her name is Acantha and she has a really interesting story. If you're actually interested I'll say more.)
I agree with this! My shadow sorc has been a blast to play. He is an arcane assassin and specializes in debuff/ damage dealing spells but also has the charisma and stealth to provide a lot of utility outside of combat. Probably the most fun I've had with a character yet and I'm super excited to see how he plays with time, currently level 5 and about to reach 6 for that sweet hound of ill omen...cannot wait.
This is why, when I build sorcerer's, there's a theme I go for. The last one I made was a draconic sorcerer(silver heritage) so I gave her lots of Ice magic. Sure it makes her a one trick pony, but it was still a lot of fun. Sure I have a tendency to do certain things, like twin dragon's breath or a quicken Ice storm. But it never felt old.
@@ramsayferguson528 Blasphemy its the only class that can twinspells the only class that cant be counterspelled (subtle spell) plus draconic bloodline gives you free mage armor and +1hp per round. divine soul gives you acsess to the entire cleric spell list which can all be twinned.
As someone who just finished a campaign where I played a sorcerer, I felt really lame until I was able to instantly get a 5th level back mid combat. I think getting creative with meta magic, taking the meta magic adept feat to get more uses, and then just sacrificing most of your 1st and 2nd level slots for sorcery points is key to not feeling like the worst parts of wizard / bard / warlock
"I get a single new spell.... which is from a severely limited spell-list that does NOT include most of the really cool stuff you'd expect an arcane caster to be able to do. Fuck me."
@@sturat5166 Listen here, we had the exact same spell list as wizards back in the day, it was only recently with 5e that half of it was ripped out and taken away for reasons inconceivable and inexcusable.
@@sturat5166 funny how a *CHILD OF RAW MAGIC* will only ever be able to do more spells than a fifth level wizard edit: Rephrasing that statement up above: Said child of *RAW MAGIC* will be outdone in almost every way by a Senior in a Magic College
@@Orillion123456 actually it was about 1/3, and this is reduced with divine soul, and even further with Clockwork soul and Aberrant mind. The last two actually get more spells known by 4th level than a wizard has spells preparations, up until 20th level.
@@TheMadJestyr Yeah but "introduce stronger subclasses" does not in any way shape or form fix the class, it just punishes players who pick the older subclasses for their flavor instead of picking the new subclasses for mechanical advantages. But power is not even what I was talking about. The point is: while those three new subclasses do add some more spells known to the sorcerer, only the divine soul actually does anything to fix my main issue of the reduced spell list (by adding the ENTIRE cleric spell list on top, which is honestly extremely overkill). Many important and defining arcane spells are just outright missing as options for sorcerers in 5e and have now been moved from "yep this is arcane magic" to "fuck you this is for wizards only!" and that is a travesty. There's roughly 150 spells that are on the wizard's spell list but not on the sorcerer's, most of them for no reason whatsoever, and this list includes a lot of very important arcane spells, particularly every single spell needed to become a necromancer, summoning and planar binding and such, fun rp-rich-but-still-objectively-useful stuff like continual flame or clone or geas or control weather, most of divination. In general, just a lot of spells have "wizard, warlock" or "cleric, paladin, wizard, warlock" or something like that as classes that can access them, signifiying that sorcerers have intentionally had their spell list cut by design, which there is no good reason for.
@@SerialGufator I pretty much coasted through a whole ass fight by casting Gust of Wind at the beginning and then only casting shield over and over. Pushed the evil tiamat paladin in heavy armor into a pool of water with the wind and she drowned. Sad way to go tbh.
Ah yes, the Sorcerer. Or as us Wizard School alumni who received a Masters Degree in Magic with a major in one spell school and a minor in like at least two others would refer to them as, "lol."
I always thought of Magic as being directed by language. A Wizard goes to school and learns to use math as that language, and can even create new spells by using that math. A Sorcerer stumbles upon using a certain language to do magic, but it isn't as precise as using math, so we have side effects like Wild Magic. Bards are basically Sorcerers, but they use Music and Poetry to focus their magic. Druids use a special Druid Language, that can only do certain things, and Rangers learn a bit of that Druid Language to do other things. Warlocks are taught special languages to do certain spells, while Clerics are handed a phone and can ask their patron to speak instead. Still, none of them are as flexible as using mathematics to describe magic, just like we use mathematics rather than English or French or Russian to describe physics.
Sorcerer: _Born of magic, the weave flowing through his veins - for eons the Paplel family has commanded flame and conquered time_ Wizard: I read a book so I can do your spells better than you
At least a Sorcerer with Counterspell and Subtle Spell can absolutely destroy any given Wizard in a 1v1. That's about all they got though, so yeah... (°-°)
@@senorsnout4417 Burning Hands is an AOE. It doesn't target creatures. Bane is a better example as you have to target specific creatures. Neither spell can be twinned however as they don't target 1 specific creature per the requirement of twinned spell.
Ding! You reached level 4! Sorlock: great, so I'm going to use turn my pact spell slot into a sorcery point, then into a sorcerer spell slot, and I will be doing this every single time we leave combat. Who cares what Warlock spells I pick, I only have those slots to turn into sorcerer slots anyway!
This reminds me of playing the Temple of Elemental Evil. My sorcerer gets to cast one spell per day. I rest to be able to cast another spell and our party gets attacked at night. Can't even get to the first dungeon and make it back to town alive. Finally grind to level 2 and, oh now I can cast two spells per day! Almost enough to kill an enemy!
It may be true re sorcerer but have you played an assassin. I sneak attack, I sneak attack, I sneak attack, He hasn't moved yet great I sneak attack with more damage, I sneak attack, I sneak attack.... You are 9th level. I have a great new assassin ability what can it be? I will spend the next seven days doing disguise self very very slowly, I sneak attack ...
If sorcerer got more spells known and/or more metamagic known they'd be acceptable imo. Wizards get their features for free, sorcerers have to pay for all of them and don't get back any slots on a long rest, they have to pay for those too using points
I like to allow sorcerers to cast upper level spells simultaneously, even aoe. Makes them actually useful and essentially makes them a glass canon that saves every slot for one big explosion
Sorcerer should: - Get more metamagics - be able to change which metamagics they have on a long rest to try them out - be able to swap out one spell on a Long Rest to another spell of the same level
@@senorsnout4417 nah man, that version didn’t make it into Tasha’s. Instead you get to swap a meta magic or a cantrip whenever you get an ability score improvement (you can only choose 1)
@@hugofontes5708 yeah, they did. The subclass spells are learned already just by picking the class, and it doesn’t count against the number of spells you can know. Other than that and what I said before, sorcerers are still as limited as before. No benefits from a long rest other than slots and points.
I would rather just have expanded spell lists so I can pick the spells I want. Maybe just some free choices from the other classes. Animate dead shouldn't be for the divine souls alone.
As someone who is about to not only play there first sorcerer but also be the only magic user in the party I can only utter one sentiment "I'm in danger"
If you're playing without homebrews take a look at the aberrant mind, or preferably, the clockwork soul. The way their origin spell list works makes them really flexible
I've been playing a sorcerer for about 2 years now, and what I'd say is be very careful with the spells you take, making sure you takes one that both fit the character and you like. I've been stuck with absorb elements for a good bit. The metamagic is fun, though, but yeah, the low spell choice can be risky, especially if you're the only caster. Think of the character more from a role-playing perspective and you'll be fine.
Go with one of the Tasha subclasses. They get double the spells across the first 10 levels. Granted those spells are selected for you, but you can switch them out on a level up, so you have WAY more options than before.
The hardest part of Sorcerer is making sure your spells compliment your meta magics. Twin spell is probably the strongest META and should be taken by 5th level when you get your 3rd level spells. It's also why the "standard/boring/not again" 2 level dip into Warlock is so strong. Even pure, don't underestimate a twin spell haste, hold, banishment, polymorph, etc. Again, have a concept and make sure your meta's compliment that choice. You'll be fine as the only caster.
@@coranbaker6401 I've already decided to go with draconic bloodline because of the ac boost and flight at higher levels but I think I devised a spell/cantrip load out that is both utility and damage heavy.
@@johnnygreenface4195 You get 8 options. You can pick 2 of them. That's what option means. But I actually meant how you can mix and match spells with meta magic to do interesting stuff :)
My DM has been letting us use this sorcerer expanded option from some third-party source that makes them a lot more versatile. Latent Magic Release Starting at 5th level, you are able to tap into a well of your unexplored power and unleash magic that you have not yet mastered. You can cast any spell from the sorcerer’s spell list, whether you have learned the spell or not. To do so, you must be of a high enough sorcerer level to be able to cast that spell, you must expend a spell slot equal to the spell’s level or higher, and spend a number of sorcery points equal to the level of spell slot used. Once you cast a spell this way, you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest. At 15th level, you can use this feature twice between rests. It also gives you some more known spells based on your bloodline, like for Draconic you get Fly and Fear at level 5.
a wise man once said. “It’s impossible to perfect everything, so polish the one thing you know to near perfection.” - probably some bearded dude another bearded dude once said “Fireball”
The second bearded dude said "Fireball" a bunch more times, while screaming maniacally. Just...no one was left around to hear it after the first blast.
One of my favorite house rules for Sorcerers is your known spells= Sorcerer Lvl plus your Charisma Modifier, pretty much exactly like your Wizards prepared spells. I personally think it brings a better balance to the game, and doesn’t make one of your main spellcasters feel like they’re dragging through. Additionally, they can trade off replacing a spell before leveling up by taking 1 level of exhaustion, with some exceptions.I understand it can cause a few issues, but it really keeps my players excited for their sorcerer class instead of feeling burnt out.
That's why I have my sorcerer prepared spells like cleric and Paladins but the amount of prepared spells the sorcerer gets is equal to the amount of known spells in the sorcerer's table
I totally get that Wizards and Sorcerers should have differences in their spell casting mechanics, and the way I see it, there were two main spellcasting perks that had to be given to one or the other. 1) Ability to change out all of your spells every single day 2) The ability to have more spells known/prepared at any given time. It makes perfect sense to split these two perks up. One class would have a shorter amount of spells each day (but could change them every day!) and the other class would have a much larger list of spells prepared (but couldn't change them out as easily). 5e gave both of those perks to Wizards, meaning Sorcerers get screwed over twice. Fewer spells prepared, & can't change them. Oh! and Wizards also get Ritual Casting, because why not. Oh! and Wizards have a much, much larger pool of potential spells to pick from, because why not. Oh! and Wizards can learn additional spells by just finding them in shops or in stores, because WHY NOT.
We did the opposite in my group, we just doubled the number of spell slots a sorcerer gets per day, Wizard still gets to play around with a very wide list of spell but the sorcerer can really SPAM
I love sorcerers but the Metamagic Adept feat from Tasha’s is basically a “must have” for sorcerers giving them 2 more Metamagic options and 2 more sorcery points. Perhaps all sorcerers should get this feat for free somewhere in the range of level 3-6?
I agree, it took the feat at 8th level as we were lucky to be just leveling up as Tasha's came out. It helps feel more like a sorcerer having two more metamagic and two more points and it hasn't had any difference in the balance of our encounters besides giving me more options to play around with, which my DM likes as well.
Let me tell ya, I'm playing with a sorcerer that has this feat and it basically invalidates me as a wizard in combat. His spell slots are essentially infinite and he does more damage than I do, can't get counter spelled and has access to cleric spells. Feels bad. If the DM throws enough at us to drain him of his 9(!!) Sorcery points then I've been tapped long ago unless I was just throwing cantrips out the whole time
I, too, love sorcs from a roleplaying perspective. Possibly getting magic from being at the right place at the right time opens so much possibility to completely customising your backstory, while as a wizard you always need to explain how you got the time to study, how you found a teacher, possbily how you had the money to go to magic school.
Sorcerer pre zanathar's pratically required multiclassing or home brewing. Post zanathar's and tasha's they are better though a few homebrew tweeks might still be needed.
@@keaering5183 Dragon bloodline seems kind of fine. With wild magic sorcs I am disappointed, I wish they would play like "you have randomness that could mess things up, but that's the price you pay for being really powerful". For storm sorcs especially I feel like they should get thematic spells.
@@toni2309 It was so bland. They dont even really interact with the type of dragon you choose other then a minor damage buff and temporary resistance. and it's even sillier once you consider the dragonborn race in conjunction with it. But that's a totally different issue.
I find sorcerers can make better use of staves than wizards. Sure, it's the same thing in the hands of both, but where a wizard sees it as a mere addition to their repertoire, the sorcerer suddenly gains access to a blessedly larger number of spells, and can still apply metamagic to the staff's spells (as per Sage Advice, you are still technically the one casting the spell).
coming from 3.5 and comparing wizards and sorcerers then and now, sorcerers got so much love already it's time for either lube or a restraining order for the sorcerer.
@@thecursed01 Sorcerer in 3.5 had a way easier time using metamagic since they didn't need to pick the metamagic spells in their list like wizards and had almost the double of the spells per day of a magician
Rouge:: Okay, so our quest is to assassinate this corrupt nobleman, I will sneak in the shadows, making multiple stealth rolls, an attack roll, and then more stealth rolls to escape, all of these rolls have a small bit nonzero chance of failing. Oh, I’m also going to have to make a roll to see if I can make the death look like an accident Sorcerer: Subtle Spell plus Power Word Kill while target is giving speech, time it so they fall off the balcony
Literally all sorcerers should have bloodline spells and get the benefit to casting them 1 for 1 with sorcery points like the two new ones in tasha's. Everyone complains about the ranger being under powered, but sorcerers just arent fun to play. Matt Mercer's rune sorcerer was unique and when you spend sorcery points the runes on you charged with energy and could prevent damage. Like that's all, and it was so fun to play!
honestly that is just bladesinger's high level ability but instead of sacrificing a spell for massive resistance (I hope it wasn't also 5X spell level cus that'd be broken) it charges the runes when used. That was pretty fun so just slapping that on a sorcerer as a bonus and making it not an elf only thing would be pretty nice, and a good use of reworking existing things to make something new and in all likelihood remain balanced.
Wild magic is like opening a soda can Sometimes the pull tab comes off and you enjoy a refreshing drink Sometimes the pull tab breaks when you pull it off of the soda can so you got refreshment with continuous poking And sometimes it explodes without warning
Yeah I homebrewed sorcerer before Zanathar's came out otherwise you needed to multiclass. After Tasha's though if you play an aberrant mind or clockwork soul with some of the spell and metamagic feats sorcerers are much much better. Just wish the pre Tasha's subclasses saw some love.
I think the CHA classes were actually designed with multiclassing in mind. On their own, they're mostly kinda 'meh', but you can do some wild shit when you combine them.
Things I find fun about the Sorcerer (some of these are not unique, but I like the bright side. This is my favorite class). 1. Prone Magic Missile. Can't miss. Can't get hit. 2. Subtle spell while bound = spells spawning out of nowhere and huge advantage 3. Font of magic = more fun with magic 4. Twin spell is OP. 5. Twin spell haste is OP 6. Twin spell chromatic orb is OP 7. I don't make it past 5. I'm sure there are more twin spell OP 8. Wild magic is extremely entertaining. I once killed an innocent citizen with random necrotic damage. 9. Storm sorcerer can fly 10. Empower actually does save you from getting those feel-bad rolls. Spell slots aren't cheap, make em count.
"I cast CHAOS BOLT!!!" Then proceed to roll the same number on my 2D8 39 times in a row, killing every creature in an entire dungeon with my Level 1 spell! Or at least, in my fantasy I do.
yeah, sorcerer just feels like one of those classes you mash in with something else. Sorcerer Warlock sounds pretty fun (even though it makes no sense considering one gets magic from a patron and the other gets magic from just being magical.) as a Wizard, I know your pain. (though we at least still get 2 spells)
Yeah, I tried that too, but it seems that you can only cast one spell per turn so... Quickened Fireball and then a Firebolt is the best solution Or Quickened Scorching Ray and a Firebolt
@@Kershar1 I read "Fireball" the first time I don't know if it's possible, 'cause i didn't take Twinned spell, but it may work And what about a twinned Firebolt as an action, and a quickened one as a bonus action? At level 5, it's better than casting Scorching Ray
@@SerialGufator yeah after lvl 5 you can definitely use fireball instead, but the nice thing of scorching ray is that you don't have to worry about hitting your allies. But my main reason to mention scorching ray over fireball was that he was using burning hands so I didn't want to mention a too higher lvl spell then what the video was talking about. Also if we really want to talk better spells twinning haste at 3rd, polymorph at 4th, and disintegrate at 6th are all just massive power any sorcerer can do with twin metamagic.
Rogue Jacob looks like he’s about to execute order 66
11th level sneak attack: execute order 6d6
Well it IS an order to ASSASINATE all the Jedi, so
@@kingcole5977 that's a good one
More like _give_ the order to execute order 66
The warlock executed order 666
This is a bold video to make for someone within Empowered Burning Hands distance
lolllllll
Anyone is in range of extended burning hands
Great comment
XP to level 3 didn't call out making the joke, so you have free license :P
Oh and you rolled a 2 and two 1s, vicious.
You forgot
DM: "You all finish your short rest."
Bard "My bardic inspiration is recovered!"
Warlock "I get all my spell slots back!"
Sorcerer "... I'm happy for you guys."
Alternative for sorcerer:
And I get to roll my d6 for health.
Wizards get some slots back too iirc
The only person who is as uncaring as sorcerer about short rests is the barbarian, but even that guy gets to roll d12s for his hp back...
Ah yeah all 2 spells are back
I’m super glad most of my DMs let me start out with/get a Bloodwell Vial early on. It’s one short rest per dawn, but it is 5 extra SP.
Sorcerer: “I twinspell disintegrate and kill the bard and the warlock”
The bard counterspells, because apparently every Bard takes that for Magical Secrets
@@DragonKingSkye and that’s when you hit them with your own counter spell.
@@matthewporter7871 spending a sorceerypoint to do it with subtle spell so it can't be seen = can't be countered.
@@cloudetix At first, I really liked this answer, but then I remembered you can't use more than one Metamagic option most of the time. Definitely go ahead and use Subtle Spell and save the points from Twinned Spell and hit them individually when they're not expecting it.
@@DragonKingSkye it really should be on the bard list, it is a verbal counter to spells and seems very fitting i just cant grasp why it was not on it
Rogue Jacob is about to reveal his new apprentice...one younger and far more powerful.
Despite rogues having the cringy edgy stereotype, I must say, I’d love a rogue like rogue Jacob at my tables.
I fear for the younglings
Something something something Dark Side.
Really you should be afraid of the storm sorcerer when he gets a bladesinger,fighter or some other kind of really tanky apprentice. He will scream unlimited power and cast haste on the tank.
@@savingpyro I know this reference.
I kept expecting someone to say “I take a potato chip and eat it!”
Thank you for making my day with this comment
I take the potato chip and eat it!
Well I really just want to hear that line in the rogue voice now.
*most intense scene ever*
I wasn't, but now i am despite having seen the video already
I like how the rogue was just so incredulous at the sorcerer's level up, that he revealed his face in full light
Remember kids, Sorcerer can turn off Spellcasters by casting Silence, causing them to not fulfill the verbal components to spells, which most have. The sorcerer is the only spellcaster that can overcome this by grabbing Subtle spell, bypassing the verbal component needed. "I'm the only one who casts fireball in this house."
Well assuming you do what every sorcerer should do and multiclass as silence does not appear on the sorcerer list.
Except for Divine Soul sorcerers. Yeah!
@@keaering5183 Sorry, was unclear. I forgot regular Sorcerer doesn't get silence, but Divine Soul is the only one able to do this
@@vincentlanderos962 true that's why divine soul is the exception. It made the sorcerer good enough. Not great but good enough. Now the tasha's stuff makes the sorcerer an A tier class where I would say it was a low B or high C previous
I walk out of the area.
Warlock 2 seconds later: Sorry guys ran out of spell slots. After combat can we take a short rest?
Warlock: Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Blast...
Someone has not learned the true power of Eldritch Blast. I would sell my firstborn son for spammable d10+CHA force damage.
@@66maybe66 Don't get me wrong, it's a fine option in combat, it's just that it's just as boring as a fighter attacking round after round.
@@ATinyWaffle Or even, dare I say, a Sorcerer using Careful Burning Hands…
@@kingfail3819 Please never use careful spells on aoe damage spells. Your party will hate you. Use careful spell on save or suck aoe's like Web and Hypnotic Pattern. Burning Hands isn't even a good spell. Thunderwave is a bigger area, only does 1.5 less damage and has an added push effect. Only take Burning Hands if you're a fire based draconic sorcerer, but even then, by the time you do more damage with fire spells, you have fireball so...
Jacob: "increase my AC by 4"
Me: sees the 4 facing the camera and not on the top of the die...
I'm onto you, Jacob!
Glad I wasn't the only one that noticed that he rolled a 1
Maybe it's 1d6 + 3?
Oh shit!
Hey! It’s the encounter making guy! Your videos are awesome!
So on top of the tax fraud, Jacob commits dice fraud too? Wow.
1:23 The rogue was so profoundly and deeply disturbed by this revelation that he forgot to keep his face cloaked in mysterious shadows. Such trauma shall make a fine addition to his tragic backstory.
"and I..
Get a single new spell"
- you also get a single new sorcery point.
**Confetti popper**
🎉 🎉 🎉
I like how as soon as I read the comment the sound effect played in my head
"I am committing Tax Fraud" is the verbal component of Compelled Duel with the IRS.
Verbal, but a good idea.
You mean verbal. Somatic is hand movements
the somatic is the action of committing tax fraud ironically
@@loneswordsman1 thanks, the somatic is filling out TPS Reports
Unless you're rich, then its more like casting Creation.
"And I... get a single new spell"
"Oh, that's an interesting reflection of your character. What are you going to take?"
"It doesn't matter, because I'm still only going to cast Empowered Burning Hands"
Hey now, they leveled up to 5. He'll be casting Empowered Fireball now, thank-you-very-much.
Tasha’s sorcerer is best sorcerer
Burnong hand Is the coolest spell.
To bad there isn't a mega-burning hand like in 3.5 side manual (I think the perfect arcanist). Basically same damage as fireball, but same animation as burning hands and with a bigger range, from 4.5m cone (15 feets) to 18 meters cone (around 60 feets).
It was a super cool spell to deal with huge amount of enemies and close range, like 20-30 people, the only problem Is that you can't exclude Friends from spell damage in 3.5, so with sorcerer and mage being a backline It was most lickely impossible to use without hitting the whole party.
@@michaelp3609 What do you mean tasha's sorcerer is best? Tasha's basically added nothing valuable to the sorcerer's kit.
Transmuted spell is nearly useless other than avoiding resistance to fire on AoEs like burning hands.
Seeking spell is "I'm going to spend 2 sorcery points (which is insanely expensive) to reroll an attack." Not succeed, REROLL.
At level 4 you can fix a mistake you made picking cantrips or metamagics. Just fixing mistakes.
At level 5 you can expend precious sorcery points for ability checks. Why? Neat to have, but nothing huge.
That's all it changed. It didn't help sorcerer nearly at all. Sorcerers are still extremely painful to play.
@@TaismoFanBoy That's one way to look at it. Another way is to notice that both sorcerer subclasses in Tasha's get 10-11 free spells known from the warlock, sorcerer, and wizard spell lists, far outpacing the number of wizard prepared spells.
The other benefits are the cherry on top. Fire sorcerers can change spell damage type to fire, sorcerers can leave out quicken and heighten until 4th, which are not wrong choices but rather are generally too expensive at low levels, and 5th lets them reroll failed counterspells.
In short, Tasha's sorcerer = best 5e sorcerer.
In a game I'm currently DMing we have a Wild Magic sorcerer. Knowing the spell list issue I thought it a fun idea to give him a system outside of the class to get new spells. Essentially in my world Wild Magic Sorcerers are so in tune with the weave that they can absorb these things called Arcane Wells or places where the weave and the material world mix. Each well has a list of three spells that can be gained from it as well as a small boon for the character. The first one was a fungus themed one that gave them Ray of Sickness, Blindness/Deafness, and Animate Dead with a boon that lets them get a zombie made from a humanoid they kill with magic. (Only one at a time, though)
He recently got a compass that points to the nearest well so that's gonna be fun.
That is an incredible idea! It eases the pain of knowing next to no spells, it gives the character a mission to improve themself, and maybe even something to protect from corrupted sorcerers!
My DM has something similar with raw magical essence created from an ancient dragon, giving greater powers the more you have of the orbs, but it also clearly corrupts the people that ingest it.
You and my DM must think alike, and I am so happy your player has a DM like you!
I had one sorcerer home brew that allowed them to make concentration checks to get new spells it spell like abilities if they were hit with them. There was a limit on how many a level. But it was really fun for the player
there are several videos out there that correct the Pre-Tasha's Sorcerer subclasses that lost out on the extra 10 spells the tasha's subclasses got.
you sir are a nice dm
The only reason I started to pay a full sorcerer is with the Aberrant mind that gives an expended known spells list.
Every sorcerer subclass should have one.
Yeah, Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul are pretty good.
I think at this point most DMs will agree if only to get you to play different subclasses.
Storm Sorcerer UA had a list. All of them should get one, though.
Lower levels Divine Soul Sorcerer is still fun. Twinning Guiding Bolt and following it up with Spiritual Weapon (with advantage) is a nice combo. Casting Aid on your party and using Extend Spell before a long rest means additional hit points remain for 8 hours after you finish your long rest and get slots back, works well with Death Ward too. Or Extend Aura of Vitality, now 10 rounds of 2d6 healing is 20 rounds of 2d6 healing for only 1 sorcery point.
Obvious downside, you now have 2 spell lists and still very few spells known.
Not divine soul.
Just give them 2 more spells every 2 levels till 9th level
Bold of you to assume the Warlock is using anything besides Eldritch Blast
Yeah, that's a bold assumption for someone in Eldritch Blast range...
as someone who created an hexblade just to use eldritch blast as arrows for the crossbow i can confirm, in fact he is very bold
I don't use Eldritch Blast on my Warlock.
Ahh yes. I can't risk using one of my precious REAL spell slots in case I need to Counterspell or Dispel Magic! I mean, Eldrich Blast is going to do more damage than any of my 'real' spells would anyway, so it isn't a huge loss, but one of these days I'm going to cast an AOE spell and everyone isn't going to immediately pass their saves and just walk out of it, and it's going to be epic! I mean, it didn't happen at all last year, or the year before, but this year is the year!...Probably!
@@sadlerbw9 Shatter and Thunderstep are great at low levels. I still use them a lot at 12. And Synaptic Static is just amazing.
Im gonna cast a spell
Dm roll that wild magic for me
Me : Okay! *explodes*
Use the updated sorcerer :) drive.google.com/file/d/14Abv_AYQ9UMnobaTyyH03CK-Sb_gkjBD/view (see last page).
Variant optional feature for the Wild Magic sorcerer!
I going to cast distant inflict wounds - Divine soul sorcerer
I twin cast level 5 guiding bolt
I twin Healing Word, then twin Chill Touch. I decide who is allowed to heal on this battlefield.
@@normaleverydaygoldfish748 Yeah I did this it's pretty amazing actually
This is why I give sorcerer the spell point variant by default.
Utility spells finally feel worth their known spells slot when you can cast them many times w/o up-casting.
Having so few known spells doesn't feel as bad when you can cast your high-level spells more times than a wizard can.
And most importantly, you can actually use meta-magic at low- and middle-levels.
That feels like what the sorcer should have had from the beginning, making them diffrent from wizards while also being able to modfy thier spells out of the gate. Slap on a spell list on every origin and you have a fun class whom plays very diffrently from the wizard
Sorcery Points and Spell Points should use the same pool as well.
I like how youtube says this video is about magic the gathering.
you mean it's not?
@@belrevan1986 I wasn't saying anything about whether or not youtube was correct I was just saying that I liked that it informed me.
I like that youtube remembers that old pc game.
There is a Forgotten Realms MtG set coming out soonish, so its not entirely wrong
Well, to be honest - the poor dude is gathering magic for several turns.
Sorcadin: "I get to cast one more spell, but who cares about that more smite slots yay"
honestly a great combo since you can spend sorcerer points if it's something like banishing smite give them disadvantage on the save with *Heightened Spell*.
@@Valsorayu Banishing Smite doesn't require an attack roll, it's a bonus action that targets "self" so it can not be affected by Seeking Spell.
@@Jermbot15 I always forget which way around it is, thanks for catching that.
At level 5? You're going from Empowered Burning Hands to Empowered Fireball or Twincasted Haste. Even the wizard will be envious of that.
*Twined Fireball*
Nuff said lol
@@ancientreddragon5617 Twinned spell only works on single-target spells, cant use it with fireball.
@@King_Of_Midgard It's an AOE
You can cast it on 1 guy...
Only spells like Magic Missile and Scorching Ray aren't compatible
@@ancientreddragon5617 I'm sure others will let you know but....that's not how that works at all. Twinned spell works on spells that target 1 creature (like Hold Person). Fireball does not target 1 creature, it targets a point of your choosing and therefore can't be twin spelled.
Or in other words: only hitting 1 creature =/= only targeting 1 creature.
@@ancientreddragon5617 Ten points from Gryffindor!
"I'm going to sing a song and increase my AC by 4" -the 4 side of the dice literally facing the camera. This channel is gold
What spell was he referring to?
@@justkiddingde6506 i think that's swords bard using his defensive flourish
As a sorcerer, I really feel this. The first time I played sorcerer, a.k.a. when I was a baby d&d player, I felt really underwhelming compared to my wizard friend who took almost the exact same spells and like 13 additional spells. My group gets around this by giving all sorcerers origin spells.
I think the thing about sorcerers is that metamagic was really powerful back in 3.5. You could, for example, maximize the damage of a spell (that 8d6 fireball? Straight just 48 damage). Quicken could also cast all levels of spells. (2 fireballs for 16d6 damage? Yes please.)
Maybe Sorcerers feel underwhelming because of that.
The two ones in Tasha’s are good because you get subclass spells and you can switch them out
@@filipevasconcelos4409 Metamagic was available to all casters at the cost of a feat in 3.5. Sorcerers had the restriction that if they cast a metamagic'd spell, they had to use their whole turn to do it, essentially making Quicken Spell useless for them.
Sorcerers have always felt underpowered, because WotC overestimates the utility of being able to cast all 5 of your spells at will vs having to select which 8 of your 15 spells you want to be able to use today.
interesting take sir.
@@filipevasconcelos4409 I think a bigger difference is just spells known. a pf1e(3.75) sorcerer at level 6 knows 5 first level 3 second level and 1 thrid level spells for 8 total, while having bloodline powers still. A 5e sorc has 7 total. At low levels this difference is small but it grows each and every level. By 20th level the total spell count is 43 vs 15, not even close.
I am so freaking jealous of the new Tasha subclasses with their TEN EXTRA SPELLS. The powercreep is real with this one.
10 extra to spell list or 10 extra spells known?
At least Tasha's expands the spell list for all Sorcs, even ones from pre-Tashas.
Bigsby's Hand, for example, used to be a Wizard only spell, but Tashas has added it as an option for any Sorc.
Power creep? Man they're now atleast closer to being onpar with every other caster
@@Orapac4142 it may be power creep, but it's necessary power creep
@@arikaaa69
Known. You get two spells at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th level. So a 66% increase from base, pretty much automatically making it better than every other subclass except ARGUABLY Divine Soul.
Sorcerer was my first class to play because I was told I could basically cheese the system with spell slots by getting quickened spell and using sorcery points. Level 17, 2 years later and I have no regrets for this class.
I do admit getting a single spell every level was hard at first...
As someone who has a current character who is a sorcerer, that was painfully accurate. The class can get boring honestly.
Options in Tasha's makes a big difference. Aberrant and Clockwork Soul + the feats section are a godsend.
As someone who started out playing a sorcerer, yeah it was kinda boring barely getting stuff via level ups. Still fun to play just wish they got more stuff more frequently in comparison to other stuff.
Only in Baldurs gate is it worth playing if you want something simple that tends to go off the rails quickly with just spell sniper and alert. And also pass almost all charisma checks
But for the tabletop, always picking wizard for pure caster
I kinda miss the old Metamagic rules tbh from 3.p.
Really wish 5e focused more on sorcerer origins instead of making "metamagic" their big shtick. Metamagic always felt like a wizard thing to me moreover, just cause they're all about learning new kinds of magic. Getting a free spell of slots 1-5 based on your origin would've been nice too.
Eh, I kinda hated the prepared spells thing of 3.5. Considering that the whole thing of sorcerer origionally was just not having that restriction, I would say that only focusing on orgins wouldn't give them enough. Plus since meta magic costs a feat which you only get every three levels, and the fact that you had to prepare the metamagic ahead of time, it just didn't seem worth it.
@@bestaround3323 in PF you could get a metamagic every other level, and some origins (bloodlines) also had em available as bonus spells.
The ability for anyone to take metamagic is neat. I wish that it were more like a fighting style, and just sorcerers maybe had more resources to use it.
@@bestaround3323 There's very few things I like about 5e over 3.5 or Pathfinder, but I will admit, Prepared Spells in 3.5 is awful, I will always prefer how 5e does it.
That being said, 3.5 is still better with metamagic. Any caster can get them, the only ones that have to prepare them beforehand are prepared casters (ie Wizards), and they're honestly just supplimental to actual castings.
Sorceror's in 3.5 and Pathfinder actually feel unique compared to 5e, for the fact when you choose your bloodline, you get specific powers based off it, you get extra spells based off it, and you get bonus feats based off it.
5e is weak as fuck compared to 3.5.
@@butcanyoudothis3320 I couldn't disagree more having run many games both systems. In 5e the universal preparation is barely kept in check by the new concentration mechanics and the weaker spells. Pathfinder and 3.5 are more about spells being keys with problems being keyholes, the right solutions for the right problems. In 5e you are basically guaranteed to have as many spells of the type you need as you need them so long as you don't mindlessly spam. The idea of preparing for general day/specific purpose is basically gone with most wizards and divine casters keeping >90% of the same list every day to the exact spell especially as 5e's smaller set of valid spells combines with this to result in every wizard ive seen regardless of school being basically the same in terms of casting. (also no more school slots rip). Sorcerers versatility within a day was a decent (though imperfect) balance to wizards versatility between days, in 5e even the most heavy handed sorcerer buffs and giving it exclusive use of metamagic leaves it worse relative to the 5e wizard than the pf sorcerer was to the pf wizard.
@@janehrahan5116 Like I said, I will always prefer how spells were prepared in 5e. That's it. I find it more intuitive, and frankly, easier to keep up with. That's it. What you're arguing is about spellcasting as a whole, which isn't what I was ever going on about.
Besides our disagreement, I majorly agree with you, as I stated there's very few things I like about 5e over 3.5 or Pathfinder.
I didn't expect to be personally attacked like this today
Might I recommendthe updated Sorcerer? drive.google.com/file/d/14Abv_AYQ9UMnobaTyyH03CK-Sb_gkjBD/view (see last page).
You can find it here: ruclips.net/user/redirect?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dmsguild.com%2Fm%2Fproduct%2F332923&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbnQyRGpOM3UtZHpCTW1jUlpsQjg1Ty1hemJCZ3xBQ3Jtc0tsV1ZZT3NNOWZNcG5Pb3ZwczBPUmVSbnpFRDdWdzRJcEM4ZjhDTWFXdDBjVEZNOUdBNHZSbnZKQmJNZHdldmhwdDRndjh0SWgwZ1phM0xrcWhGa3NEU0JKNHhxRVBuNE1GYmVBWU0zdENWTlNScHdEVQ%3D%3D&event=comments&stzid=UgzTWyYRrM__k-Ns2Lp4AaABAg.9NVCpMk0Wvp9NX4fgD8cO4
@@nielsdejong I'm aware of the homebrew fixes and as a DM I've mixed a few to my liking but players gotta go with whatever the DM likes best and often they just prefer raw
Sorceror might be weak by itself, but it's probably the best multi-class in 5e. Sorcadin, Sorlock, or Sorc+Any Martial Class all work quite well and definitely make for some of the most interesting combat rounds. Extra Attack + Quickened spells should not be underestimated.
True, but multiclass itself is an optional rule, and one that is basically a gateway to powerful builds based on min-maxing and such. Not dissing mutliclassing, but that's like saying "Well if I mix this hot sauce with peppers then its gonna be even spicer." You shouldn't have to take another class in order to be a good class.
@@tylerp.5004 This is true. Classes should stand on their own even if multiclassing is fun and should always be allowed unless you want to offer serious homebrews. Because some things just don't work without multiclassing. Its not about power. Its about concepts.
I consider sorcerer as a limited spell nuking class. I think it has its place in the game and i love the flavor that they provide
You see, the trick is to learn shape water, that way you can quicken spell to use your piss as an improvised weapon.
...I kinda want to do this now. Making a whole character completely out of crude humor and making them effective would be hilarious.
Frozen-Piss-Sword
@@ark_alcor1048 catapult monkey edition
Sorcerer: (pissing on the campaign antagonist) You like that?
Antagonist: Harder mommy-
Sorcerer: (pulls up pants) What?
Antagonist: (takes 5 acid damage) What?
I fucking died, thanks,off to try this build with a demon. (I'm a terrible person :) )
i like playing sorcerers or, as i call them, "my party's frontline is replaced by a pair of 130hp t-rexes"
I personally also like to call them "I can cast 5 fireballs per day at level 5"
Or "Let me just quicken a fireball to go with my wand of fireballs"
yeah twined polymorph is great, also try the one into a t rex and an enemy into a sheep. Watch hilarity ensue. Also give enemies abound from zanathar's a shot with twin especially against ranged combatants. Your GM will not be amused.
Yet I still love playing sorcerer. I'm a shadow sorcerer in my campaign. I love it! She's so cool!
(Her name is Acantha and she has a really interesting story. If you're actually interested I'll say more.)
I agree with this! My shadow sorc has been a blast to play. He is an arcane assassin and specializes in debuff/ damage dealing spells but also has the charisma and stealth to provide a lot of utility outside of combat. Probably the most fun I've had with a character yet and I'm super excited to see how he plays with time, currently level 5 and about to reach 6 for that sweet hound of ill omen...cannot wait.
This is why, when I build sorcerer's, there's a theme I go for. The last one I made was a draconic sorcerer(silver heritage) so I gave her lots of Ice magic. Sure it makes her a one trick pony, but it was still a lot of fun. Sure I have a tendency to do certain things, like twin dragon's breath or a quicken Ice storm. But it never felt old.
Literally what I did with my first character like almost exactly what I did. A pleasure to meet a based Sorcerer player XD
*PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER*
itty bitty leveling pace
That is why I use the updated Sorcerer :) drive.google.com/file/d/14Abv_AYQ9UMnobaTyyH03CK-Sb_gkjBD/view (see last page).
Found in this supplement: www.dmsguild.com/m/product/332923
I love that he makes every OTHER class seem cool EXEPT the one he’s talking about.
Tbf all of it is true source I play sorcerer 😭
it's almost as if. that's the entire point and joke of the video
@@DrCaesarMD ngl I was laughing and dying inside at the same time
Not to beat a dead horse or commit captain obvious, but his entire channel downplays the focus class by praising others, everytime.
@@ramsayferguson528 Blasphemy its the only class that can twinspells the only class that cant be counterspelled (subtle spell) plus draconic bloodline gives you free mage armor and +1hp per round. divine soul gives you acsess to the entire cleric spell list which can all be twinned.
As someone who just finished a campaign where I played a sorcerer, I felt really lame until I was able to instantly get a 5th level back mid combat. I think getting creative with meta magic, taking the meta magic adept feat to get more uses, and then just sacrificing most of your 1st and 2nd level slots for sorcery points is key to not feeling like the worst parts of wizard / bard / warlock
Honestly just spamming quickening and twin spell is what helped me feel strong despite barely getting anything through level ups.
"I get a single new spell.... which is from a severely limited spell-list that does NOT include most of the really cool stuff you'd expect an arcane caster to be able to do. Fuck me."
@@sturat5166 Now now, we all know Sorcerers are too cool for school.
@@sturat5166 Listen here, we had the exact same spell list as wizards back in the day, it was only recently with 5e that half of it was ripped out and taken away for reasons inconceivable and inexcusable.
@@sturat5166 funny how a *CHILD OF RAW MAGIC* will only ever be able to do more spells than a fifth level wizard
edit: Rephrasing that statement up above: Said child of *RAW MAGIC* will be outdone in almost every way by a Senior in a Magic College
@@Orillion123456 actually it was about 1/3, and this is reduced with divine soul, and even further with Clockwork soul and Aberrant mind. The last two actually get more spells known by 4th level than a wizard has spells preparations, up until 20th level.
@@TheMadJestyr Yeah but "introduce stronger subclasses" does not in any way shape or form fix the class, it just punishes players who pick the older subclasses for their flavor instead of picking the new subclasses for mechanical advantages.
But power is not even what I was talking about.
The point is: while those three new subclasses do add some more spells known to the sorcerer, only the divine soul actually does anything to fix my main issue of the reduced spell list (by adding the ENTIRE cleric spell list on top, which is honestly extremely overkill). Many important and defining arcane spells are just outright missing as options for sorcerers in 5e and have now been moved from "yep this is arcane magic" to "fuck you this is for wizards only!" and that is a travesty.
There's roughly 150 spells that are on the wizard's spell list but not on the sorcerer's, most of them for no reason whatsoever, and this list includes a lot of very important arcane spells, particularly every single spell needed to become a necromancer, summoning and planar binding and such, fun rp-rich-but-still-objectively-useful stuff like continual flame or clone or geas or control weather, most of divination. In general, just a lot of spells have "wizard, warlock" or "cleric, paladin, wizard, warlock" or something like that as classes that can access them, signifiying that sorcerers have intentionally had their spell list cut by design, which there is no good reason for.
This is why people like Bloodline Spells. Helps amend the problem of only having 5 spells to use Metamagic on.
That is why I use the updated Sorcerer :) drive.google.com/file/d/14Abv_AYQ9UMnobaTyyH03CK-Sb_gkjBD/view (see last page).
Me, the Fighter: I'm gonna smack the dragon with my sword....Over....and over....and over....and over.....
And over again.
Me, also a fighter: the same but with arrows
And i couldn't be happier that I'm in range to do so.
I also use action surge so I can... smack the dragon with my sword. Again.
This is why Rune Knight is so much fun. You get to do this, but also go BIG MODE.
Barbarian: "I would like to rage."
"Yea I'm just gonna multiclass... Hey, warlock? Can i hear about your patron?"
"I cast shield as a reaction until I run out of spell slots"
And since I can use some Sorcery Points to have another 1st level spell slot back, good luck with trying to kill me
@@SerialGufator I pretty much coasted through a whole ass fight by casting Gust of Wind at the beginning and then only casting shield over and over. Pushed the evil tiamat paladin in heavy armor into a pool of water with the wind and she drowned. Sad way to go tbh.
@@kenkubard Well, in a way she deserved it (you know, evil...)
Nice strategy for the fight by the way
Ah yes, the Sorcerer. Or as us Wizard School alumni who received a Masters Degree in Magic with a major in one spell school and a minor in like at least two others would refer to them as, "lol."
I Reflect your comment
Ah yes the Wizard, or as we Warlocks refer to them as:
_NERDS_
I always thought of Magic as being directed by language. A Wizard goes to school and learns to use math as that language, and can even create new spells by using that math. A Sorcerer stumbles upon using a certain language to do magic, but it isn't as precise as using math, so we have side effects like Wild Magic. Bards are basically Sorcerers, but they use Music and Poetry to focus their magic. Druids use a special Druid Language, that can only do certain things, and Rangers learn a bit of that Druid Language to do other things. Warlocks are taught special languages to do certain spells, while Clerics are handed a phone and can ask their patron to speak instead. Still, none of them are as flexible as using mathematics to describe magic, just like we use mathematics rather than English or French or Russian to describe physics.
Sorcerer: _Born of magic, the weave flowing through his veins - for eons the Paplel family has commanded flame and conquered time_
Wizard: I read a book so I can do your spells better than you
At least a Sorcerer with Counterspell and Subtle Spell can absolutely destroy any given Wizard in a 1v1. That's about all they got though, so yeah... (°-°)
That sorcerer needs to learn about twinspell...
exactly my thought
You can't twin Burning Hands, cause it can target more than one creature.
You can twinspell witchbolt
twinned firebolt, quickened fireball
@@senorsnout4417 Burning Hands is an AOE. It doesn't target creatures.
Bane is a better example as you have to target specific creatures.
Neither spell can be twinned however as they don't target 1 specific creature per the requirement of twinned spell.
Y'all laugh at the sorceror until they suddenly start casting Twinned Haste and become the single most valuable party member.
twin Hold Person, empower Fireball. They auto-fail the dex save.
Ding! You reached level 4!
Sorlock: great, so I'm going to use turn my pact spell slot into a sorcery point, then into a sorcerer spell slot, and I will be doing this every single time we leave combat. Who cares what Warlock spells I pick, I only have those slots to turn into sorcerer slots anyway!
The looks everyone gave the Sorc when he said 1 new spell, just one, was priceless :)
"I think I might make a sorcerer"
Basically every BARD ever
That is why I use the updated Sorcerer :) drive.google.com/file/d/14Abv_AYQ9UMnobaTyyH03CK-Sb_gkjBD/view (see last page).
@@nielsdejong for future finding things.. ya know, cause phone
Jacob's delivery on the rogue lines is on point.
This reminds me of playing the Temple of Elemental Evil. My sorcerer gets to cast one spell per day. I rest to be able to cast another spell and our party gets attacked at night. Can't even get to the first dungeon and make it back to town alive. Finally grind to level 2 and, oh now I can cast two spells per day! Almost enough to kill an enemy!
Usually he posts comedy
Today he's posting the cold hard truth
It may be true re sorcerer but have you played an assassin. I sneak attack, I sneak attack, I sneak attack, He hasn't moved yet great I sneak attack with more damage, I sneak attack, I sneak attack.... You are 9th level. I have a great new assassin ability what can it be? I will spend the next seven days doing disguise self very very slowly, I sneak attack ...
@@nicka3697 I mean, yeah, the assassin isn't really a combat focused subclass.
Naaaaaah, there is so much crazy stuff you can do with meta magic. You just need to get creative with it.
If sorcerer got more spells known and/or more metamagic known they'd be acceptable imo. Wizards get their features for free, sorcerers have to pay for all of them and don't get back any slots on a long rest, they have to pay for those too using points
About tax fraud.
That rogue must have..... unlimited power!
Twinned cast Haste and let those teammates do the rest, while you are chilling in a trench dug up with your cantrip.
Sorcerer bros :D
P.s. you forgot about the shadow dog/spiritual weapon and the periscope for counterspelling.
I like to allow sorcerers to cast upper level spells simultaneously, even aoe. Makes them actually useful and essentially makes them a glass canon that saves every slot for one big explosion
Sorcerer should:
- Get more metamagics
- be able to change which metamagics they have on a long rest to try them out
- be able to swap out one spell on a Long Rest to another spell of the same level
They can already do that last one now. Variant Class Features from Tasha's Cauldron. Swap out one of your spells known on a long rest.
@@senorsnout4417 nah man, that version didn’t make it into Tasha’s. Instead you get to swap a meta magic or a cantrip whenever you get an ability score improvement (you can only choose 1)
@@insenit556 and they kept the subclasses with a dozen spells? what is going on here
@@hugofontes5708 yeah, they did. The subclass spells are learned already just by picking the class, and it doesn’t count against the number of spells you can know. Other than that and what I said before, sorcerers are still as limited as before. No benefits from a long rest other than slots and points.
I would rather just have expanded spell lists so I can pick the spells I want. Maybe just some free choices from the other classes. Animate dead shouldn't be for the divine souls alone.
As someone who is about to not only play there first sorcerer but also be the only magic user in the party I can only utter one sentiment "I'm in danger"
If you're playing without homebrews take a look at the aberrant mind, or preferably, the clockwork soul.
The way their origin spell list works makes them really flexible
I've been playing a sorcerer for about 2 years now, and what I'd say is be very careful with the spells you take, making sure you takes one that both fit the character and you like. I've been stuck with absorb elements for a good bit. The metamagic is fun, though, but yeah, the low spell choice can be risky, especially if you're the only caster. Think of the character more from a role-playing perspective and you'll be fine.
Go with one of the Tasha subclasses. They get double the spells across the first 10 levels. Granted those spells are selected for you, but you can switch them out on a level up, so you have WAY more options than before.
The hardest part of Sorcerer is making sure your spells compliment your meta magics. Twin spell is probably the strongest META and should be taken by 5th level when you get your 3rd level spells. It's also why the "standard/boring/not again" 2 level dip into Warlock is so strong. Even pure, don't underestimate a twin spell haste, hold, banishment, polymorph, etc.
Again, have a concept and make sure your meta's compliment that choice. You'll be fine as the only caster.
@@coranbaker6401 I've already decided to go with draconic bloodline because of the ac boost and flight at higher levels but I think I devised a spell/cantrip load out that is both utility and damage heavy.
Bard: "I'm going to sing a song! And increase my AC by
*rolls 1*
Bard: "4!"
"Can't you do anything else?"
Quickened Scorching Ray: Am I a Joke to you?
Careful Web: Am I a Joke to you?
Twinned Hold Person: Am I a Joke to you?
This reminds me of the "I got a robe" SNL Christmas sketch.
This is EXACTLY how it feels
But you get so many cool options with meta magic :(
So much stuff to experiment with!
@@janelantestaverde2018 true
@@janelantestaverde2018 But only about 7 options to use them with. About twelve with the tasha's classes.
@@janelantestaverde2018 so many? 2 until 10th level. Then 3
@@johnnygreenface4195 You get 8 options. You can pick 2 of them. That's what option means.
But I actually meant how you can mix and match spells with meta magic to do interesting stuff :)
I was waiting for the burning hands to destroy everything, but they were never used...
My DM has been letting us use this sorcerer expanded option from some third-party source that makes them a lot more versatile.
Latent Magic Release
Starting at 5th level, you are able to tap into a well of
your unexplored power and unleash magic that you have not yet mastered. You can cast any spell from the sorcerer’s spell list, whether you have learned the spell or not. To do so, you must be of a high enough sorcerer level to be able to cast that spell, you must expend a spell slot equal to the spell’s level or higher, and spend a number of sorcery points equal to the level of spell slot used. Once you cast a spell this way, you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest. At 15th level, you can use this feature twice between rests.
It also gives you some more known spells based on your bloodline, like for Draconic you get Fly and Fear at level 5.
a wise man once said. “It’s impossible to perfect everything, so polish the one thing you know to near perfection.”
- probably some bearded dude
another bearded dude once said “Fireball”
The second bearded dude said "Fireball" a bunch more times, while screaming maniacally.
Just...no one was left around to hear it after the first blast.
When you like arcane casters but playing a wizard would mean you have to think about spells, there's always the sorcerer.
I mean wizards don't really have to think about spells either.
One of my favorite house rules for Sorcerers is your known spells= Sorcerer Lvl plus your Charisma Modifier, pretty much exactly like your Wizards prepared spells. I personally think it brings a better balance to the game, and doesn’t make one of your main spellcasters feel like they’re dragging through. Additionally, they can trade off replacing a spell before leveling up by taking 1 level of exhaustion, with some exceptions.I understand it can cause a few issues, but it really keeps my players excited for their sorcerer class instead of feeling burnt out.
What kind of issues?
You'd think that someone who was born overflowing with magic would be better at magic.
That's why I have my sorcerer prepared spells like cleric and Paladins but the amount of prepared spells the sorcerer gets is equal to the amount of known spells in the sorcerer's table
I totally get that Wizards and Sorcerers should have differences in their spell casting mechanics, and the way I see it, there were two main spellcasting perks that had to be given to one or the other.
1) Ability to change out all of your spells every single day
2) The ability to have more spells known/prepared at any given time.
It makes perfect sense to split these two perks up. One class would have a shorter amount of spells each day (but could change them every day!) and the other class would have a much larger list of spells prepared (but couldn't change them out as easily).
5e gave both of those perks to Wizards, meaning Sorcerers get screwed over twice. Fewer spells prepared, & can't change them.
Oh! and Wizards also get Ritual Casting, because why not.
Oh! and Wizards have a much, much larger pool of potential spells to pick from, because why not.
Oh! and Wizards can learn additional spells by just finding them in shops or in stores, because WHY NOT.
We did the opposite in my group, we just doubled the number of spell slots a sorcerer gets per day, Wizard still gets to play around with a very wide list of spell but the sorcerer can really SPAM
I just wish the sorcerer had some free picks like the bard.
You mean "I quicken my burning hands and then twin firebolt and... Wait are we still fighting?"
Replace "Empowered Burning Hands" with "Twinned Chromatic Orb" and that's been my experience so far too lmao.
I love sorcerers but the Metamagic Adept feat from Tasha’s is basically a “must have” for sorcerers giving them 2 more Metamagic options and 2 more sorcery points. Perhaps all sorcerers should get this feat for free somewhere in the range of level 3-6?
I agree, it took the feat at 8th level as we were lucky to be just leveling up as Tasha's came out. It helps feel more like a sorcerer having two more metamagic and two more points and it hasn't had any difference in the balance of our encounters besides giving me more options to play around with, which my DM likes as well.
For free? Lmao giving a class their strongest feat for free seems pretty busted.
Let me tell ya, I'm playing with a sorcerer that has this feat and it basically invalidates me as a wizard in combat. His spell slots are essentially infinite and he does more damage than I do, can't get counter spelled and has access to cleric spells. Feels bad. If the DM throws enough at us to drain him of his 9(!!) Sorcery points then I've been tapped long ago unless I was just throwing cantrips out the whole time
As much as I love role-playing sorcerers usually I multiclass them as they feel cooler when multiclassed.
I, too, love sorcs from a roleplaying perspective. Possibly getting magic from being at the right place at the right time opens so much possibility to completely customising your backstory, while as a wizard you always need to explain how you got the time to study, how you found a teacher, possbily how you had the money to go to magic school.
Or getting Alter Self/Magic Weapon then learning how to fight from a martial class NPC.
Sorcerer pre zanathar's pratically required multiclassing or home brewing. Post zanathar's and tasha's they are better though a few homebrew tweeks might still be needed.
@@keaering5183 Dragon bloodline seems kind of fine. With wild magic sorcs I am disappointed, I wish they would play like "you have randomness that could mess things up, but that's the price you pay for being really powerful". For storm sorcs especially I feel like they should get thematic spells.
@@toni2309 It was so bland. They dont even really interact with the type of dragon you choose other then a minor damage buff and temporary resistance. and it's even sillier once you consider the dragonborn race in conjunction with it. But that's a totally different issue.
I find sorcerers can make better use of staves than wizards. Sure, it's the same thing in the hands of both, but where a wizard sees it as a mere addition to their repertoire, the sorcerer suddenly gains access to a blessedly larger number of spells, and can still apply metamagic to the staff's spells (as per Sage Advice, you are still technically the one casting the spell).
As a pathfinder sorcerer going to D&D, I feel this so god damn hard.
As a sorcerer/bard multiclass this video came for my throat XD
YOU FEEL LIKE GOD THATS HOW YOU FEEL
Wizard with fireball: “first time?”
Well, of course it doesn't know how to Sorcer around: glasses and dumb hat, c'mon he's a wizard
RIP for all other Sorcerer mains like me. We need more love from Wizards of the Coast.
coming from 3.5 and comparing wizards and sorcerers then and now, sorcerers got so much love already it's time for either lube or a restraining order for the sorcerer.
I just use a homebrew that makes spell points and metamagic the same thing, fixes most of the issues I’ve had with the class.
only when they change their name to sorcerers of the coast
Pick Tasha subclasses that give u more spells
@@thecursed01 Sorcerer in 3.5 had a way easier time using metamagic since they didn't need to pick the metamagic spells in their list like wizards and had almost the double of the spells per day of a magician
this is why I muti classed my storm sorcerer into a tempest cleric
IRS sits down. "Roll initiative"
Rouge:: Okay, so our quest is to assassinate this corrupt nobleman, I will sneak in the shadows, making multiple stealth rolls, an attack roll, and then more stealth rolls to escape, all of these rolls have a small bit nonzero chance of failing. Oh, I’m also going to have to make a roll to see if I can make the death look like an accident
Sorcerer: Subtle Spell plus Power Word Kill while target is giving speech, time it so they fall off the balcony
The bard rolling a 1 is pretty much my entire experience playing one in my current campaign.
Literally all sorcerers should have bloodline spells and get the benefit to casting them 1 for 1 with sorcery points like the two new ones in tasha's. Everyone complains about the ranger being under powered, but sorcerers just arent fun to play.
Matt Mercer's rune sorcerer was unique and when you spend sorcery points the runes on you charged with energy and could prevent damage. Like that's all, and it was so fun to play!
honestly that is just bladesinger's high level ability but instead of sacrificing a spell for massive resistance (I hope it wasn't also 5X spell level cus that'd be broken) it charges the runes when used. That was pretty fun so just slapping that on a sorcerer as a bonus and making it not an elf only thing would be pretty nice, and a good use of reworking existing things to make something new and in all likelihood remain balanced.
Wild magic is like opening a soda can
Sometimes the pull tab comes off and you enjoy a refreshing drink
Sometimes the pull tab breaks when you pull it off of the soda can so you got refreshment with continuous poking
And sometimes it explodes without warning
If empower is the only metamagic you know how to use, you don't deserve them.
As a sorcerer main, I am far too familiar with this pain. I ended up having to use a reworked sorcerer to give me more spells and metamagic options.
I feel the same way
Yeah I homebrewed sorcerer before Zanathar's came out otherwise you needed to multiclass. After Tasha's though if you play an aberrant mind or clockwork soul with some of the spell and metamagic feats sorcerers are much much better. Just wish the pre Tasha's subclasses saw some love.
I think the CHA classes were actually designed with multiclassing in mind. On their own, they're mostly kinda 'meh', but you can do some wild shit when you combine them.
Things I find fun about the Sorcerer (some of these are not unique, but I like the bright side. This is my favorite class).
1. Prone Magic Missile. Can't miss. Can't get hit.
2. Subtle spell while bound = spells spawning out of nowhere and huge advantage
3. Font of magic = more fun with magic
4. Twin spell is OP.
5. Twin spell haste is OP
6. Twin spell chromatic orb is OP
7. I don't make it past 5. I'm sure there are more twin spell OP
8. Wild magic is extremely entertaining. I once killed an innocent citizen with random necrotic damage.
9. Storm sorcerer can fly
10. Empower actually does save you from getting those feel-bad rolls. Spell slots aren't cheap, make em count.
Yet all the other players at the table lose their marbles when I twin haste, polymorph, or hold person
"I cast CHAOS BOLT!!!"
Then proceed to roll the same number on my 2D8 39 times in a row, killing every creature in an entire dungeon with my Level 1 spell!
Or at least, in my fantasy I do.
yeah, sorcerer just feels like one of those classes you mash in with something else.
Sorcerer Warlock sounds pretty fun (even though it makes no sense considering one gets magic from a patron and the other gets magic from just being magical.)
as a Wizard, I know your pain. (though we at least still get 2 spells)
"Increase my AC by 4"
*roles a 1*
Just paid toward the kickstarter! Thanks Jacob, this looks awesome!
This why you homebrew origin spells on your sorcerer and put them on spell points instead of spell slots.
On the Sorcerer's turn (Dragon Blood Sorcerer) I cast quickened Scorching Ray, followed by a Twin Firebolt. Everything dies
Yeah, I tried that too, but it seems that you can only cast one spell per turn so... Quickened Fireball and then a Firebolt is the best solution
Or Quickened Scorching Ray and a Firebolt
@@SerialGufator you can twin Firebolt after you quicken a leveled fire spell. Or at least as far as I'm aware.
@@Kershar1 I read "Fireball" the first time
I don't know if it's possible, 'cause i didn't take Twinned spell, but it may work
And what about a twinned Firebolt as an action, and a quickened one as a bonus action? At level 5, it's better than casting Scorching Ray
@@SerialGufator yeah after lvl 5 you can definitely use fireball instead, but the nice thing of scorching ray is that you don't have to worry about hitting your allies. But my main reason to mention scorching ray over fireball was that he was using burning hands so I didn't want to mention a too higher lvl spell then what the video was talking about. Also if we really want to talk better spells twinning haste at 3rd, polymorph at 4th, and disintegrate at 6th are all just massive power any sorcerer can do with twin metamagic.
Errbody mocking the Sorcerer till they throw out TWO fireballs in one turn
Stick with it, sorcerers. Patience until you become stronger than all these plebs combined.
Well, save for the rouge