This was fascinating, I knew of King John and his exploits (honestly, when I think of the man, I'm mostly reminded of Disney's Robin Hood with the talking animals) but I never knew of Isabella of Angouleme. I agree, she was treated very unfairly, thank you for the video, I knew nothing of her beforehand. She was just trying to thrive in her world as best she could.
I like the way that you frequently challenge derogatory assessments in the interest of fairness and with the clarity that the distance of time can bring. (Prime example: Margaret of Anjou.) Many thanks for another great video. I'm learning a lot.
I was actually thinking of asking you for a video on her! I always feel bad asking for videos though so I’m glad you were ahead of me hehe. One of my best friends likes Isabella very much, and I’ve rly never looked into her life myself, so this video is very useful, thanks🙏🙏 Have a nice week :)
Aww, you should never feel bad for asking for videos, I love suggestions from all you guys, and you know you're one of my favourites! (Don't tell the others, haha. 😂) It's so sad that there isn't much on Isabella to fill in the blanks - she's a bit of an 'Anne Neville' figure - but I think there's some hints in the way she lived after John's death.
Unfortunately women at this time were just pawns. I wish we knew more about her actual feelings and beliefs in the world she had to navigate. Great video🎉🎉
It would be so good to have more of the 'real' Isabella, I agree. I think we get hints of it, in her few years ruling alone, her determination to get Henry crowned, and the fact she held onto her title of Queen, but sadly this is all through the eyes of others.
Tons of vids on King John. None that I have found very positive. I’m just fascinated by any women at this time that could inherit and hold titles and lands Suo Jure, especially in France.
I much enjoy these histories. Isabella my 22nd GGM through her children Henry III, Richard King of the Romans, Hugh XI of Lusignan, and Alice de Lusignan Countess of Surrey. Blond-haired, blue-eyed, and known for her beauty, the selection of modern imagery is appropriate.
@@Butterflypegasus40 I wondered that myself. Old Angouleme is on the River Chartrente not very far from the west coast of France. Looking at the "Viking Expansion" (Wikipedia) the area may have had ancestors, but apparently not Scandinavian settlements.
She wasn’t even a teenager when she married John. It even shocked back THEN how very young she was. I’m thinking maybe she was around ten, from contemporary descriptions of her at their wedding. And he didn’t wait long, if at all. Creep. But I guess he was pretty bonkers about her, political reasons aside.
First view , I didn't knew that king jobn's wife had a temper tantrums. I knew that only John had the infamous Angevin Temper. I thought she had a calming effect on him . Turned out to be something else. 😐😐
I mean she was also a 12-year-old child when John was looking at her in a wifely way ..ew but also I imagine she had little mature moral guidance in his court since he was a grown toddler himself
Since Isabelle had 9 children with her second husband, not sure how unhappy they actually were. While I don't doubt that her second husband was unfaithful but that wasn't that unusual in that era.
Er....to be fair, having a lot of children is no barometer of happiness, even today. Hugh was known for having other lovers besides his wife, so I think the only safe statement we can extract from what we know is that he liked sex. 😂
I don't understand the repeated unpopularity of queens due to their foreigness when by default the English kings married women from other royal families from abroad. Its not like they could marry their own subjects.
I know this sounds cruel, but I believe those who usually tend to vilify medieval socially powerful women, kinda ended up giving them too much credit😅😅😅 Isabella of Angoulême is one of those medieval women who on first research and stereotypes surrounding them, you might think they were such a villains or femme fatales or...(you know)the way what you may think of them although is anything but positive, but you'll have a badass or strong view of them in your mind. only to look deeper and find not much to be said about their lives in reality, but only about people around them and end up feeling so underwhelmed😔😔😔
No, I absolutely get what you mean! It's why, although a few people have asked about doing a video on Isabella, I was so hesitant as she's a bit of an 'Anne Neville' figure, and as you say, is mostly known by those around her. However, I think it's fair that she at least gets to have some limelight, especially as she was probably a nicer person than she is made out to be. It's just frustrating that while we know she did well in those few years in Angouleme ruling alone, there's little record it.
Thank you, most interesting. Like most women of her era, and beyond, most foreigners were treated with distrust. Poor things, they usually had no say in anything and the very same men who distrusted her would happily send their own daughters off into foreign parts if it suited them or made them money. Bit double standards going on there. 🙏🙏👵🇦🇺
There were definitely plenty of other women of the era who were treated the same, you're right. I think if John hadn't been such a bad king, Isabella might even have been remembered differently.
@@HistorysForgottenPeopleI'm so sick of wives married to brutal men being vilified and taken as truth when its the husbands acting like total egomaniac.
She was featured in Sharon Kay Penman's book Here be Dragons(about Johns illegitimate daughter Joanna and Lewellyn The Great) There are also further books with Isabella's other children.
Hi, awesome live history video I enjoyed it. How are you doing and Mallard your cat? How is the weather where you are? I'm doing well and so is my cat Benjamin. We have a heatwave in Ontario Canada. In the next video in the future could you do King Richard the Lionheart. He was King of England in the 11th century. Have a great day see you next video 😊
Hi Michelle, I'm doing well thanks! Mallard is enjoying the summer and lazing around as usual. 😂 I'm glad you and Benjamin are doing well - especially as you've got a heatwave at the moment! Autumn has started early here, so we've got cooler. I will definitely add Richard the Lionheart to my ever-growing list. 😊
No heiress was given any choice in their marriage.
2 месяца назад
Marriages then had a rule that marital relation would not begin until the Brides "Nurses" decided she was ready. That was an unspoken rule. John disregard the rule and the resulting "relations" caused a scandal in a time when Gallantry and chivalry were upmost in the aristocratic mind.
After the divorce, King John kept her under confinement for fourteen years so he could keep control over her lands. Though they eventually got returned to her
For this week’s question, who, from the figures you’ve covered on this channel, is your favourite and least favourite? I suspect your favourite might be Empress Matilda (totally understandable tbh, def one of my favourites), but I might be discounting some more forgotten character who you actually like more haha. As for least fav, idk, you’ve covered some unpleasant people here👀👀
Okay, so you have correctly guessed Empress Matilda is my favourite. 😂😂😂 I do mention her a LOT, haha. So I'll do my second favourite as well, which would probably be...Hatshepsut? And her video did not do well. 😅 But I totally admire her and her rule, and she's very similar to Empress Matilda in being the first woman of her era to push the boundaries of being in charge. I think there might be a theme here. So she's my second favourite. Oooh, now least favourite....this is tough, because I'm trying to decide if I'm going for overall general unpleasantness, or the ones I dislike personally. I can't decide between Henry VIII and Catherine Henriette de Balsac, basically. 😂 Henry VIII is such an obvious choice for obvious reasons, but Catherine just seems so cold and manipulative that I find it hard to like anything about her as well.
2 месяца назад
@@Butterflypegasus40 South of La Rochelle and north of Bordeaux. Its still covered in vast forests.
@leeannproctor2966 exactly. Doesn't mean she didn't have a viper's temper towards people who crossed her. Otherwise she was probably quite pleasant company.
She was always a mystery to me but if only the reputations of her Lusignan sons didn’t stain her name to where it was hard to know she was in her own right.
thank for this video I wondered about my ancestor King John's wives I am his great grandchild 3 times via Edmund Crouchback, Henry III, and Joana Lady of Wales who married a Welsh king who was from his first wife his cousin I wondered about the wives of King john.
Can you also make a video about another woman who was also heavily criticized in her time and was painted as a b*tch basically: Isabeau of Bavaria, queen consort of France. ❤ I love your channel.
@@lilacgirl-z8w Charles VI of France, & they were the parents of Catherine de Valois, who married Henry V & then Owen Tudor. Charles VI had some kind of serious mental illness, & it's likely that Henry VI's mental illness was inherited from him.
@@lilacgirl-z8w that was going the reign of Richard the lionheart and the church said that they could marry but not have sex because they were 2nd cousins
Sorry, not every female person in history was just a nice, put-upon sweet girl. She could very likely have been simply not nice. It is difficult to know, of course, but there is no evidence she was this lovely damsel.
"Mother, you know, I was so uncertain about marrying Hugh, but now -" "I'm marrying him instead." "Er...what?" "Yeah...." *pause* "Is this awkward now? Because we can totally set you up with the King of Scotland." "Um. Yeah. Okay. Sure."
This was fascinating, I knew of King John and his exploits (honestly, when I think of the man, I'm mostly reminded of Disney's Robin Hood with the talking animals) but I never knew of Isabella of Angouleme. I agree, she was treated very unfairly, thank you for the video, I knew nothing of her beforehand. She was just trying to thrive in her world as best she could.
Honestly, I always think of Disney's version as well. 😂 That film is a classic! I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
@@HistorysForgottenPeopleyou should see robin hood men in tights, you'll laugh your head off.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople It's nice I'm not the only one, keep up the great work.
@@RavenIdril2966 It's hilarious, I love it.
@@HistorysForgottenPeopleto be fair richard I nearly bankrupted england because of his crusades but John got the backlash and all the blame.
I like the way that you frequently challenge derogatory assessments in the interest of fairness and with the clarity that the distance of time can bring. (Prime example: Margaret of Anjou.) Many thanks for another great video. I'm learning a lot.
Thanks, Philip! 😊At this point, challenging everything about medieval women is becoming my calling card, haha. I'm glad you're enjoying the videos.
@@HistorysForgottenPeopleI don't believe Isabella is to blame for John having to make a deal with the nobles.
@@HistorysForgottenPeopledo you plan on doing a segment of isabella's second husband?
Also, I rly like how, for the first part of the video, you made Isabella look like a child, bc she really was young even for the time.
I did my best, so I'm happy it was noticed! 😂 It's hard when Midjourney wants everyone to look like a 20-year-old model of course, haha.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople lmao you did a great job🙏🙏
@@HistorysForgottenPeopledo you ever wonder if isabella ever learned to have affection for John.
@@HistorysForgottenPeoplewhat are your true feelings about child brides ( even if the marriage wasn't consummated till they were of age) I'm curious?
I was actually thinking of asking you for a video on her! I always feel bad asking for videos though so I’m glad you were ahead of me hehe.
One of my best friends likes Isabella very much, and I’ve rly never looked into her life myself, so this video is very useful, thanks🙏🙏
Have a nice week :)
Wonder if she hated her parents for not keeping her away from John.
Aww, you should never feel bad for asking for videos, I love suggestions from all you guys, and you know you're one of my favourites! (Don't tell the others, haha. 😂) It's so sad that there isn't much on Isabella to fill in the blanks - she's a bit of an 'Anne Neville' figure - but I think there's some hints in the way she lived after John's death.
Unfortunately women at this time were just pawns. I wish we knew more about her actual feelings and beliefs in the world she had to navigate. Great video🎉🎉
@@zackhalter9571 she got her claws out by the time her son became king.
It would be so good to have more of the 'real' Isabella, I agree. I think we get hints of it, in her few years ruling alone, her determination to get Henry crowned, and the fact she held onto her title of Queen, but sadly this is all through the eyes of others.
@@HistorysForgottenPeoplewho is your favorite French queen?
God I’ve been waiting for this one! So awesome!
I hope there will be a segment of King John.
Tons of vids on King John. None that I have found very positive. I’m just fascinated by any women at this time that could inherit and hold titles and lands Suo Jure, especially in France.
She’s my 21st great grandmother
My 24th, i think if I’m counting correctly!
How many French people are descended from her?
My 23rd great grandmother
My 34th GGM through the Foulke/Evan line. FYI, I’m African American. Who would have thunk
Then we are related. Hi Cousin.
I much enjoy these histories. Isabella my 22nd GGM through her children Henry III, Richard King of the Romans, Hugh XI of Lusignan, and Alice de Lusignan Countess of Surrey. Blond-haired, blue-eyed, and known for her beauty, the selection of modern imagery is appropriate.
I wonder if isabella had viking blood in her?
@@Butterflypegasus40 I wondered that myself. Old Angouleme is on the River Chartrente not very far from the west coast of France. Looking at the "Viking Expansion" (Wikipedia) the area may have had ancestors, but apparently not Scandinavian settlements.
She wasn’t even a teenager when she married John. It even shocked back THEN how very young she was. I’m thinking maybe she was around ten, from contemporary descriptions of her at their wedding. And he didn’t wait long, if at all. Creep. But I guess he was pretty bonkers about her, political reasons aside.
This is what I consider a vomit scenario.
Thanks!
Thank you as always! You're too kind. 😊
First view ,
I didn't knew that king jobn's wife had a temper tantrums. I knew that only John had the infamous Angevin Temper.
I thought she had a calming effect on him .
Turned out to be something else. 😐😐
She got him to spend too much money.
Aguoleme is now a city.
I mean she was also a 12-year-old child when John was looking at her in a wifely way ..ew but also I imagine she had little mature moral guidance in his court since he was a grown toddler himself
Since Isabelle had 9 children with her second husband, not sure how unhappy they actually were. While I don't doubt that her second husband was unfaithful but that wasn't that unusual in that era.
Second husband was her first engagement until John had it broken.
According to sources she loved Hugh more than she ever loved John.
Second husband was the son of her first engagement
@@lita84lita1984, this. They were both named Hugh, though.
Er....to be fair, having a lot of children is no barometer of happiness, even today. Hugh was known for having other lovers besides his wife, so I think the only safe statement we can extract from what we know is that he liked sex. 😂
I don't understand the repeated unpopularity of queens due to their foreigness when by default the English kings married women from other royal families from abroad. Its not like they could marry their own subjects.
I know this sounds cruel, but I believe those who usually tend to vilify medieval socially powerful women, kinda ended up giving them too much credit😅😅😅
Isabella of Angoulême is one of those medieval women who on first research and stereotypes surrounding them, you might think they were such a villains or femme fatales or...(you know)the way what you may think of them although is anything but positive, but you'll have a badass or strong view of them in your mind. only to look deeper and find not much to be said about their lives in reality, but only about people around them and end up feeling so underwhelmed😔😔😔
No, I absolutely get what you mean! It's why, although a few people have asked about doing a video on Isabella, I was so hesitant as she's a bit of an 'Anne Neville' figure, and as you say, is mostly known by those around her. However, I think it's fair that she at least gets to have some limelight, especially as she was probably a nicer person than she is made out to be. It's just frustrating that while we know she did well in those few years in Angouleme ruling alone, there's little record it.
@@HistorysForgottenPeoplecan you please do richard I wives who were both very interesting?
Great video as always! 🙂
Love the picture of Isabella.
Thank you, I'm glad you liked it! 😊
Thank you, most interesting. Like most women of her era, and beyond, most foreigners were treated with distrust. Poor things, they usually had no say in anything and the very same men who distrusted her would happily send their own daughters off into foreign parts if it suited them or made them money. Bit double standards going on there. 🙏🙏👵🇦🇺
There were definitely plenty of other women of the era who were treated the same, you're right. I think if John hadn't been such a bad king, Isabella might even have been remembered differently.
Unfortunately we will never know?
@@HistorysForgottenPeopleI'm so sick of wives married to brutal men being vilified and taken as truth when its the husbands acting like total egomaniac.
As always GREAT video ❤
Thank you! 😊
She was featured in Sharon Kay Penman's book Here be Dragons(about Johns illegitimate daughter Joanna and Lewellyn The Great) There are also further books with Isabella's other children.
Hi, awesome live history video I enjoyed it. How are you doing and Mallard your cat? How is the weather where you are? I'm doing well and so is my cat Benjamin. We have a heatwave in Ontario Canada. In the next video in the future could you do King Richard the Lionheart. He was King of England in the 11th century. Have a great day see you next video 😊
Hi Michelle, I'm doing well thanks! Mallard is enjoying the summer and lazing around as usual. 😂 I'm glad you and Benjamin are doing well - especially as you've got a heatwave at the moment! Autumn has started early here, so we've got cooler. I will definitely add Richard the Lionheart to my ever-growing list. 😊
@@HistorysForgottenPeoplewill you ever do a famous real life animal lover like a historic steve irwin?
Isabella didn't love John apparently but John forced her.
No heiress was given any choice in their marriage.
Marriages then had a rule that marital relation would not begin until the Brides "Nurses" decided she was ready. That was an unspoken rule. John disregard the rule and the resulting "relations" caused a scandal in a time when Gallantry and chivalry were upmost in the aristocratic mind.
I feel sorry for John's first wife, hope she gets her own segment.
After the divorce, King John kept her under confinement for fourteen years so he could keep control over her lands. Though they eventually got returned to her
Isabella of Gloucester is absolutely on my list! 😊
@@HistorysForgottenPeopledid isabella of Gloucester get remarried?
For this week’s question, who, from the figures you’ve covered on this channel, is your favourite and least favourite? I suspect your favourite might be Empress Matilda (totally understandable tbh, def one of my favourites), but I might be discounting some more forgotten character who you actually like more haha. As for least fav, idk, you’ve covered some unpleasant people here👀👀
@@lfgifu296 where is angouleme in modern France?
Okay, so you have correctly guessed Empress Matilda is my favourite. 😂😂😂 I do mention her a LOT, haha. So I'll do my second favourite as well, which would probably be...Hatshepsut? And her video did not do well. 😅 But I totally admire her and her rule, and she's very similar to Empress Matilda in being the first woman of her era to push the boundaries of being in charge. I think there might be a theme here. So she's my second favourite.
Oooh, now least favourite....this is tough, because I'm trying to decide if I'm going for overall general unpleasantness, or the ones I dislike personally. I can't decide between Henry VIII and Catherine Henriette de Balsac, basically. 😂 Henry VIII is such an obvious choice for obvious reasons, but Catherine just seems so cold and manipulative that I find it hard to like anything about her as well.
@@Butterflypegasus40 South of La Rochelle and north of Bordeaux. Its still covered in vast forests.
She was a product of her time. No better, no worse.
Seems her husbands made the decisions to me.
@leeannproctor2966 exactly. Doesn't mean she didn't have a viper's temper towards people who crossed her. Otherwise she was probably quite pleasant company.
Could you do a video on Margaret Tudor and her daughter Margaret Douglas?
She was always a mystery to me but if only the reputations of her Lusignan sons didn’t stain her name to where it was hard to know she was in her own right.
I wonder if she liked her sons after they were grown?
@@RavenIdril2966 Not everyone has a clear established view on that.
thank for this video I wondered about my ancestor King John's wives I am his great grandchild 3 times via Edmund Crouchback, Henry III, and Joana Lady of Wales who married a Welsh king who was from his first wife his cousin I wondered about the wives of King john.
I didn't know anything about John's wife. I'm ashamed to say I didn't even know her name!
I knew a little of her.
She was a terrible mother to her son, the next king of England.
Can you also make a video about another woman who was also heavily criticized in her time and was painted as a b*tch basically: Isabeau of Bavaria, queen consort of France. ❤ I love your channel.
I will definitely add her name to my ever-growing list! Thanks for the suggestion. 😊
@@HistorysForgottenPeopleI've never heard of this woman so I'm certainly interested in hearing about her.
@@HistorysForgottenPeoplewho was Isabeau of Bavaria husband?
Yes, that would be brilliant!
@@lilacgirl-z8w Charles VI of France, & they were the parents of Catherine de Valois, who married Henry V & then Owen Tudor. Charles VI had some kind of serious mental illness, & it's likely that Henry VI's mental illness was inherited from him.
Can you do a video of the most unknown Qing Dynasty Empress, Step empress Nara?
Asian empresses had it rough too.
❤❤❤
John was forbidden from sleeping with his wife Isabella of Gloucester
You can't forbid a medieval king from sleeping with his wife.
@@lilacgirl-z8w that was going the reign of Richard the lionheart and the church said that they could marry but not have sex because they were 2nd cousins
John was a womanizer any way and the only one to throw real tantrums was John so yes she had yell back
Kings thought they weren't excepted to be faithful.
Sorry, not every female person in history was just a nice, put-upon sweet girl. She could very likely have been simply not nice. It is difficult to know, of course, but there is no evidence she was this lovely damsel.
😮😮😮😮😮😮
Stealing her daughter fiancée 😂is total killer move 😂
"Mother, you know, I was so uncertain about marrying Hugh, but now -"
"I'm marrying him instead."
"Er...what?"
"Yeah...."
*pause*
"Is this awkward now? Because we can totally set you up with the King of Scotland."
"Um. Yeah. Okay. Sure."
@@HistorysForgottenPeopleI wouldn't be happy if my mother took my fiancee.
Depends on the man, I might be ecstatic. I doubt either mother or daughter had much say in the matter.
Isabella should have learned her lesson and not remarried.
Like deployed 👍
Everyone hates women and I don’t give a shit I LOVE ISABELLA!
Isabella did get screwed over in history.
@@lilacgirl-z8w mmh hmm I love my historical women (minus Messalina)
I do have to disagree on some of this. She married her daughters and held her daughter prisoner.