He cancelled Angel, too, even though it was the highest rated show on the WB at the time, ending the Buffy universe, which could’ve been the next Star Trek and would probably be running to this day if he hadn’t been so petty.
@@lovecraftianleviathan8918the irony was that Jamie Kellner was a wrestling fan, but he also understood that if a business under corporate ownership couldn’t sustain its own success in the long term, you might as well just cut the losses.
When the bubble bursted, AOL was liquidating assets like madmen. They not only sold WCW, they sold all the sports teams; the Atlanta Braves(baseball), the Hawks(basketball), the Thrashers(hockey),all the buildings they played in and other assets. Vince McMahon swooped in, bought it and then killed it.
For a few million, which VKM made back by "best of WCW" tapes from their video libraries alone. AOL wanted WCW gone at any cost. Too bad even AOL is now a memory too.
It's kind of funny that Jim Crocket Promotions died when Dusty and Flair and "all the boys" took full advantage of Crocket's ambition and started living it up on private jets and living like rock stars and grabbing as much money as possible and then the company tanked and Jim sold it to Turner. Then Bischoff became the next sucker to fall for it.
Wcw was far more profitable than jcp ever was I think end of the day what ultimately killed wcw was the constant change of bookers after the AOL time warner merger, which was not in 96 as stated in this video.... toward the end when they had John Laurinaitis booking it started to be good again, or at least much better than it had been, and on a cheaper budget and they still ended up selling sadly.
@chrischar9428 constant change of them ... yes. The little storyline they had made no sense, they would just stop with nothing ever coming of it. People getting pushed then all of a sudden they're opening nitro and not even in a feud they were in. IIRC when they had Kevin Sullivan back booking was why Benoit left, and he took Eddie Dean and Saturn with him... I never said it was the sole reason but im sure it played a big part. It's almost like if you changed writers 5 times on a season of a TV show, but they all had different ideas of how the season should go....
The Nitro book goes into that pretty well. It's not even up for debate anymore. It was never the TV booking that actually killed it. lol. AOL/Time Warner's folks didn't want wrestling. The Time Warner execs in particular had wanted to kill WCW for years because they could get better revenue for running re-runs of Seinfield. The only reason WCW stayed around was because Ted Turner promised Crockett when it bought it that as long as he was in-charge, wrestling would have a place on his network, and kept his word. If you're going to read any book on the subject, "The Death of WCW" is a terribly sourced book. Very little of what's in that book could be considered "fact" by journalistic standards - it relies on a lot of rumors and gossip. "Nitro" on the other hand, is *very* well researched. It talks to first hand sources, including former Turner execs. Which is where that theory comes from.
No it was the booking that killed WCW because well yes Time Warner eventually took WCW off television. You know what would have saved it if it didn't lose 60 million dollars in a single year you know what caused it to lose 60 million dollars in a single year the terrible booking so
@@clifforddavidson7273thank you. Been saying this for years against this dumb argument. If WCW was still a big success there is no way board members and share holders would allow this. Everyone uses the “well the board didn’t want WCW from the start”. They are referring to a different time when WCW was not a success and losing money. Things were vastly different in 2000 in the landscape of how companies operate. Especially publicly traded ones. It was no longer something advertisers kept away from too. Another thing very different from a decade+ prior.
@@Cander5142even so anyone that even does a cursory search on Kellner can show you the guy is a corpo suit of the worst kind By WCW’s end it had largely trimmed away its worst parts and would soon have its most expensive ones out of contract and gone (Hogan, Nash, etc) I mean the last Nitro showed this with who was actually on the card Many people backstage and working both for Ted and WCW had small hopes that Eric could make the purchase earlier on cause if he could buy the rights he could keep WCW around and secure it elsewhere possible (that last part of moving it was rumored only) But Kellner had zero care and just sold the entire program and all assets on the cheap allowing Vince to pick it up with hardly even a dent in his account Then in the future and Kellner continues his reign of corporate crap and he actively killed multiple cartoons on his own networks thinking children wanted more live actions shows instead, most of which factually got lasted no more then 1 or 2 seasons before THEIR ratings sunk and no one watched them
I'm not a Russo defender, but as far as leaving WWF because they were adding a show and going to WCW who were also adding a show, I believe Russo has said that the issue was that he wasn't going to get paid more for the added workload and responsibilities. Moving to WCW saw him take on more work and responsibilities, but he was also paid more to do it.
WCW already had Thunder when Russo joined and Thunder was not his main responsability. Plus he was allowed more time with his family in NY than in WWF. Vince wanted him on the road 365 days a year.
Wrestlers had huge guaranteed contracts and the stable was so huge that guys didn't have to wrestle or come up with content. Most of the talent was older ex-WWF stars that were already established and didn't have to prove anything... The fueds got old real fast... It was exciting in the beginning of N.W.O... It was like a few badass gangs fighting each other... Like Hells Angels vs Mongols, so that was sweet... but then it became that week after week... and the fights weren't personal, they were just kinda like "these guys are rivals so they hate each other"
Good point. I think Hogan was the biggest problem but I have to agree... It was a perfect storm of nonsense going on backstage and in the boardroom...so in the end there's plenty of blame to go around.
@@darylmixan8170no, it was not the wrestlers, not even Hogan. Yes the top guys could practically do whatever they wanted, but if you give guns to monkeys you don't blame the monkeys when people get shot.
That would be Eric Bischoff. It was a tactic he used during the Monday night wars. WWE would pre-tape there shows back then and Eric would spoil the results of that match on Nitro ahead of time. It was a tactic that worked up until he got to The Rock vs. Mankind. I guess Bischoff underestimated Mick Foley's popularity and it completely backfired on him😂
No they said that even after viewers switched they then switch back to Nitro. Because it was going to be Kevin Nash vs Hogan. Then the finger poke of doom happened. There was a lot of interest in this match. So it was a missed opportunity. This was probably Hogan creative control. Who knows
@MrBranh0913 Nash said it was both him and Hogan who came up with the "finger poke of doom" he though it would raise heat until next ppv, but by that time fans had enough of WCW wrestler creative control and tunes out in mass. I was one of those fans.
I think you did Bischoff a bit dirty in his pre-Nitro era, after he took charge from Bill Watts. He wasn't spending big at the start, he was carrying out a lot of cost saving measures including the move to Disney MGM, cutting travel costs, cutting production costs including staff, and only going after Hogan and Hart - all other wrestlers came to him, including Randy Savage who he basically got for free due to the Slim Jim deal. In fact arguably he saved the company in 1994, because Watts left it in such a bad condition.
@@Robman0908 that is true. It was conveyed to Eric when he took over that as much as Ted liked wrestling, if it didn’t turn around he was pulling the plug.
It was, via Bischoff, but whether broader pro sports sanctioned the implosion when they saw the money it made that one year is question. It really did not peak in it's booking and might have been sustainable, with less funding needed than mlb or nfl.
the death of WCW wasn't just one thing. it was a multitude of multiple things, from bad leadership, bad booking, bad decisions, ego, bad luck, among other things. There are a ton of moments that let wcw crumble, from them saying mankind was gonna win the championship, to the finger poke of doom, to putting the belt on Arquette and Russo, to plenty of others. There was just so many things that wcw did wrong.
@@1980Triumphthere have been countless videos, articles and books about that period in wrestling history. It’s not necessary to have been working for WCW to know what was going on. I think you wanted to make a smart quip but failed. Never mind. Go and read a book about jokes so you know how to make them in the future.
@@thefuturist8864 - yes and they all say that it was the merger and the lack of interest from management regarding wrestling that killed the business. So, when some wrestling fanboy makes stupid claims like this it just ruins any real meaningful conversation.
Ted has an personal connection with WCW and would pump it with money to keep it alive, AOL was an business that didn't see WCW as an money maker anymore.
@Red_Hood_Outlaws If WCW keep their high ratings and was beating RAW, it would have been appealing to advertisers. WCW numbers weren't always accurate and running at an loss, that's why the top names signed contracts with Time Warner instead so their contracts wouldn't be considered in their finances.
@@HarleyQuinnSoldier There was a reason Ted did that . I guess you've never heard his explanation before. I can't explain it properly, but it was something like a loss leader type thing.
I don't think WCW was too far gone to save. Look at how TNA turned itself around, look at how NJPW recovered from Inokyism. Given a chage of philosophy it could have been restored. The Time Warner executives killed WCW.
@omarkennedy7056 Turner owned wcw when Ted lost control of his own company in the merger aol didn’t want wcw so biscoff had a backer but aol didn’t want wrestling on their tv when that happened biscoffs backer backed out and aol sold wcw to vince for Pennie’s on the dollar
Thats bullshit answer if thats what they say, (just started the video) because lets be real if wcw was still doing massive number the tv spot isnt going anywhere
Being a fan, back in the day, I believe that the NWO destroyed WCW. It was fun for all of two minutes, and then every single match ended in a disqualification to build up the pay-per-view story lines that also (often enough), ended in disqualification. It just became an absolutely unbearable show. Soon enough, during the Monday night Wars, I was only watching WCW during WWF commercial break. Meanwhile, I was quickly hitting the previous channel button to see if the WWF commercial break was over, yet.
@@RobertGreenwaldI just love that they were doing it for years and being petty, only for it to coincide with the Fingerpoke, and ended up being a major blow when they convinced people to tune to WWF
But that is not taking account of the other 74.23% advantage from his peaks...so it was more like 107.53% - 3.43% from the bad refs...so it left 104.10% ...+ 21.83% of awesomeness bonus...so 125.93% chances it was Big Poppa...get it right brah! 😊
WCW killed WCW. Allowing old guys to have creative control and not allowing young guys to breakout Scott Stiener, DDP, and Booker T Should have been Main Eventers long before they where. Guys like Konnan , Kanyon, and Buff Bagwell could easily been top guys.
You also have to take into account the popularity of the N64 games at the time. It can’t be stressed enough how the license of the AKI games going from WCW to WWF influenced many kids to make the switch as well, which was all right around the time that the switch over of fans started hitting
Oh man and I was proud to have owned all of those N64 wrestling games it didn’t matter what AKI did when it came to wrestling games whether it was WCW or WWF they could do no wrong in those days because they actually understood what made wrestling games great and what made wrestling great in general unlike the guys that did the PlayStation games.
I always felt bad for Ted Turner over the AOL merger. He gave wrestling a home. A couple bad decisions and he lost control of his company. But, yeah, that Jamie guy killed so many of my childhood shows 😡
Starrcade '97 was such an easy lay-up that even now, 27yrs later, it boggles the mind that they fucked it up so greatly. Even ignoring the idiotic decision to have Luger beat Hogan first (thus showing it was not a John Wick-style impossible task), the match should have just been a glorified squash with Sting trouncing Hogan (even no-selling the Atomic Legdrop), winning the title and ending the nWo angle on a high.
@@onewarriornation602don't forget Sting's drug problem. Bischoff and Hogan take all of the slings and arrows and both have NEVER mentioned Sting's problems. Thankfully Sting finally put out an article a couple of years ago where he even said he's lucky to be alive considering how bad his issues were in 1997.
@@RG-lr4pk That's what's funny about the Hogan Derangement Syndrome the neckbeards all have, Sting has come out numerous times talking about how he was heavily addicted to painkillers and alcohol during that whole thing, miserable and his life was falling apart causing a whole host of issues. Yet the basement dwellers plug their ears and continue trying to run with the Meltzer narratives regarding that time period.
That was WCW. Either ignoring/forgetting long term plans or simply throwing them away for spontaneous idiocy. I'm not saying the Luger victory was bad, but for him to manhandle the whole legion of nWo run in attempts was,sometimes that could have been done differently. Such as even when Goldberg won the title the next year, it was DDP who stopped the run in letting the match continue fairly.
As someone who enjoyed the Russo wrestling era of both companies I feel like Russo killed WCW but unintentionally because WCW had been around for a long time prior to him so maybe HIS style didn't work for traditional fans but maybe the ones like me who didn't watch WCW heavily prior.
I never knew that Turner opposed the AOL merger, and wanted one with NBC instead. Can you imagine how different the entertainment landscape as a whole would have been if they had listened to him? Warner would have grown to be as big or bigger than Disney. I think the real killer of a lot of things were the Time Warner board decided to go with AOL, and I also think that not enough people give Turner the credit he deserves
@@khaitranngoc4176 funny enough, NBC and TNT both co-produced NASCAR races together from 01-06. Plus, commentators Bill Weber, Wally Dahlenbach and pit reporter Marty Snyder split time on TNT with NASCAR in 2007 and 08, while also doing American Le Mans (IMSA), CORR off road trophy truck racing and Champcar (CART) on NBC following the 1st departure of NASCAR on NBC.
Before I watch this it has been stated repeatedly that the driving force that killed the promotion was Ted Turner being phased out after the Time Warner merger. Time Warner did not want wrestling on either TNT or TBS and eventually got their way. This was well in motion before Vince Russo was even hired.
Before watching: it was the AOL-Time Warner merger that did WCW in. Ratings for the 2 weekly shows were still the highest of any program on either station. But AOL wanted nothing to do w/ wrasslin'. EDIT: yup! While guys like Hogan, Bischoff, Russo really started it swirling the drain, even Turner making mistakes, it was the final merger that really killed it. Bischoff could've at least saved the brand w/ AOL cooperation. They didn't. Competition was over, WWE was alone and the product has never recovered.
Wwe would kill to have those rating these days and I honestly think the company would have turned it around as Aj styles was coming into his own, and such…
All 4 were upset they never had the main titles. The worst part to me personally, they were making good money. They had their specific fans, including myself. Under Bischoff they were allowed to do normal matches exactly like in Japan. What I saw in the WWF with them was misusing them severely at first, then having them in things still worse than anything they did in NJPW, ECW, or WCW. I'd say in 2 cases the pressure to look "big" enough for Mc Mahon lead to the early deaths, and in 1 case murder too. I get it they took steroids before then, but I bet they really overdid it in the WWF. To me Malenko's treatment was the worst. He was my guy in the mid 90s, and then they do that to him. Oh well, what happened happened.
And Russo too. Kevin Sullivan booking was somehow even more of a disaster. He tried to put the title on Benoit as a last ditch peace attempt only for all of them to immediately leave anyway the next day. Made the company look like a joke, which it pretty much was at that point.
Jaime Kellner didn't just kill wcw. He killed wrestling. Giving vince no competition is why wrestling slowly sank in popularity and ppl saying now is like the attitude era...no. not even close. wwe has improved but it only gets at best 1/5 of the attitude Era audience
It is super popular now. The difference is TV is dying. So ratings are not a good way to gage the popularity. It especially has become bigger around the world.
@@soulcrusher807 Pro-wrestling is not as popular now as it was in the 1980s, 90s, and early 00s. Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold, and The Rock in their heydays had mainstream popularity that transcended wrestling. People with zero interest in wrestling knew who they were from pop culture. Everyone knew who Undertaker, DX, etc were No one since then, not even John Cena, managed to do that. Certainly not any of the wrestlers now. The chances are, if you have never followed wrestling (and don't have kids, etc who follow it), you've probably never even heard of Cena (except from Hollywood nowadays maybe), Reigns, etc. Brock Lesnar became 100x more bankable (and he was already a top WWE star when he left in 2004) because he went to UFC and won the Heavyweight Championship. If he'd stayed in wrestling he would've never reached those heights.
I think you overestimate how much of this under control of Vince and the pro-wrestling world. If Vince could've kept the Attitude Era going, he would've. But it was beyond his control that he lost The Rock and Stone Cold as full time wrestlers (no one has come close to the starpower they had) and wrestling losing relevance in pop culture because of the internet and the rise of things like UFC. Vince *tried* to keep the Attitude Era going, technically, with the Ruthless Aggression era. It was still TV 14, it still had lots of violence, blood, objectifying the fuck out of the female roster (bra and panties matches etc), 'adult' storylines. It just didn't have the same appeal or star power anymore, and they were bleeding money. That's why they went TV PG and started catering more to kids, because it was great for getting that sweet advertising revenue in.
@BlossomField91 the difference now is not in the home base, but the expansion into other markets. That more than makes up for not being as popular in North America.
Warning signs for AEW NOT TO FOLLOW. great video guys. In the wake of the big contracts of okada, mone and ospreay, we're starting to see the checklist ticked one by one. Lets see if AEW can keep the tv deal.
According to Bischoff, Hogan very rarely used his creative control… keep in mind he has a lose Billy Kidman…he used his creative control for his match with Sting because Sting didn’t want to win because he was struggling with an addiction issue but in Hogan’s mind it was the only conclusion that made sense so as a middle ground they settled on a Dusty finish, notice Sting didn’t remain champion for long and after he lost it he disappeared from TV.
Luke... this was yet another incredible piece of work you all put together. The research and detail was amazing! Thanks for another great video essay guys. Love these!!
Nice! An educational video from wrestletalk including the right amount of jokes! No overdoing it with a mask or unfunny jokes. I appreciate videos like this. It reminds me of the old days of wrestletalk
16:41 You know, back in the PS2 days when when the Smackdown games were the best thing ever, I created a wrestler called 'The Wall', never knowing that there was a wrestler by that name in WCW. In fairness, I didn't watch WCW much.
want me to one up ya? WHen i got my hands on one of the PS1 Smackdown games... can't remember which one... I hadn'T had much exposure to pro wrestling at the time except for the old SNES Raw game. I put UNdertaker and Kane in a team named "Big Red Machine"...
The Wall got over the guy he was supposed to the bodyguard of (Alex Wright had a great rebrand and unfortunately he stopped lifting weights and came in all pale and flabby)… he had a nice Chokeslam
Funny enough I had a friend who created himself on no mercy and called himself "Chainz". If I had known there was already a wrestler with that name, I'd have called him out on it.
My answer will actually always be AOL Time Warner. At the end of the day, they pulled the plug. They refused to give Eric a time slot when he offered to buy. Blaming Russo and Bischoff’s creative choices, Hogan’s politics, etc is deep and interesting. Unfortunately, the real answer is just boring, corporate America
This and I still think giving Hogan that much creative control, when he also has the biggest ego (dude no one cares you lost to yjr Warrior at WM, we didn’t need that only works in thr WWF, Warrior in wCW
You can blame AOL all you want, but that doesn't explain any of the issues leading up. Loss of viewership, loss of money, etc. It was dying/dead and lingering before AOL
Eric Bischoff, in my opinion, is the one who killed WCW. He signed several guys to massive contracts and never used them. He threw around guaranteed money like beads at Mardi Gras. Made several idiotic creative decisions like The finish of Starrcade 97's main event being the most egregious of them as well as signing off on the Starrcade 98 main event where Goldberg's streak ended. He also allowed a toxic culture in the locker room and squandered talents like Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and worst of all misused Bret Hart and booked him terribly. It is easy to scapegoat Russo as he did serious damage to the company as well and put the nail in the coffin. But Bischoff is the one who built the coffin in the first place.
Agreed. If Hogan had lost clean and let the nWo die: it wouldve been remembered as one of the greatest stories ever. Still beloved and everything leading up to that match was perfect but Hogans ego won't be denied. Then, there was Russo's "reset" God it was awful.
You convinced me that it was Bischoff because he couldn’t reign in Hogan. I remember feeling this at the time, too. Speaking personally, I bailed on WCW when Jericho did.
actually the referee said on Chris van Vliet that Sting said to count fast and Hogan said to count slow so he just went down the middle and did a normal count. So he I think he didn't wanto decide between them. But really it just shows the division in the roster and unnecessary power struggles in the back.
It shows this was such a bad idea… Hogan had been the biggest chicken bleep heel, never defending belt, talking for 20 Mins (19 mins too long), and just being a total coward, until that match and he turned into monster heel and made Sting look bad… man I wish Eric had just had more faith in Foley and Austin and kept them and never brought HoganC unless he has limited creative control and he does what the booking says for PPV
The AOL/Time Warner merger. Everything else might have HURT WCW, but if those problems got remedied or never happened, all it would have done was maybe make the bleeding last longer or cost Vince McMahon a little more in the acquisition.
1:42 Ted Turner? 3:07 Georgia Championship Wrestling. 5:45 TBS 7:25 Eric Bischoff? 9:27 September 22nd, 1995: Time Warner Purchases TBS Merger 11:42 Hulk Hogan? 15:04 Disdain for Hulk Hogan in the WCW Lockerroom in 1998 15:48 1998 18:44 Vince Russo? 20:07 Bash At The Beach 2000. 21:58 Halloween Havok 1999. 22:53 Jaime Kellner? 25:08 Jaime Kellner. 26:04 SOLD WCW To Vince McMahon. 26:45 From the end, going back. Looking back across the timeline. 28:00 Ted Turner's Loss of Power. 28:40 Who Killed WCW? All of these people mentioned in the video.
Bishoff either refused to push top and mid card WWF talent in the Monday night wars. His inability to see in to the future and blind loyalty to the past.
I just remember getting fed up with WCW and stopped watching. Every week each episode of TV seemed to end the same: a big match was announced, you look forward to it, then when its finally time it ends with the big chaotic WCW ending... and for a while there I was OK with that because you kind of understood they wanted to save the big finish for the next PPV. But then these chaotic endings with everybody running in to the ring and garbage flying and all that started happening at the PPVs as well and it just got to "Why am I paying $50 for this PPV if its not going to finish any stories?" and then "Why am I watching Nitro if its not going to finish any stories or lead to a finish on the PPV?"
I think you're describing Russo's way of looking at it all. Cornette hated him for it in the WWF. Russo didn't care about wins, losses, belts, DQs. He wrote TV shows. And he wanted that shock value. I've recently decided to watch one show from 1999 when I stopped watching. Man oh man. It was a train wreck. BTW they wanted less offensive kid friendly TV and they hired Russo? I bet you they never watched any pro wrestling period.
@dodesskiy1 Except it was happening in 96. Russo wasn't in charge of writing at WWF in 96. WCW started being repetitive before whatever you're trying to say. He's right. It got to the point where the NWO is coming out. Here comes 3/4 of the locker room. Just no direction
Yeah. Those "flying garbage moments" were exciting for a while, but it got old after 2-3 years of the nWo just winning everything. And then when the nWo red/white split happened, it became a tedious stalemate. They had booked themselves into a corner, because they couldn't afford to let Nash or Hogan look weak. And speaking of booking themselves into a corner, you had Goldberg's winning streak. By the end of 1998, Goldberg had already squashed 90% of the roster. Nash was the most credible challenger left. I think that something like the screwy finish to Starrcade 98 was inevitable. I was actually cautiously optimistic about "The Fingerpoke of Doom", since I had grown so tired of the Hollywood/Wolfpac feud not going anywhere. It seemed like, maybe, the nWo reunification would be the first step toward the dissolution of the nWo. (I was right, in retrospect, but not in the way I expected.) Then, maybe, WCW would turn it around and give us something fresh. Instead, it was more of the same nonsense. And Jericho leaving was the final straw for me.
Road Wild wasn’t the only PPV where the live crowd was let in free. 1995’s Bash at the Beach was held on a public beach and the crowd was let in free too. I was there. If you have Peacock or the WWE Network, I’m the goof in the ugly military glasses and silly purple tiger stripe hat that was cheering on Harlem Heat at about an hour and six minutes in, so I know this was a free event for the crowd. 2024 me wonders how much money in production costs was lost because it was free to us, unless of course the filming of an episode of Baywatch and merch sales made up for some of that cost
Its crazy how i feel AEW is making so many of the same mistakes. From the crazy contracts, to being on the same network, to struggling to make a profit.
Oh but their boss is a fan of the very worst of that era. So he's emulating it. But it's all for him, I saw one documentary where he said he paid for people to be in seats. It's all like an action figure set for him.
WCW shouldve did what WWF eventually did when HBK lost to Austin at 98 Mania. The next night on Raw HHH took over DX Nash shouldve took over the NWO after Hogan lost to Sting. Nash shouldve said Hogan dropped the ball but now I have picked it up and then introduced a brand new member. A big reveal
This is how I book Starcade 97, Hall and Nash start to get annoyed always helping hogan but not get any of the credit, finally they tell Hogan he is on his own, Sting squashes Hogan, Hall and Nash kick Hogan out and now Hogan can do his face run … or the NwO dies and w have the wolf pac , with limited matches
I still remember as a little kid when Bobby Hennen revealed the big gold belt on a Saturday morning wrestling show. As a wrestling fan, it ranks as in top 3 mark out moments in my life.
I knew WWF was fake but knew about real wrestling in the Olympics. I didnt know wcw e isted and when Flair showed up and they were calling him the real world champ my 6 year old brain thought this meant that Flair was the legit shoot wrestling world champ 😅
Luke you really did a great job on the two videos i've seen you do deep dives. You guys deserve wrestling awards for this content. Informative and entertaining. Well done WrestleTalk team.
Turner/Time Warner/TW-AOL management never liked having WCW on their books and even during the best days of WCW there were managers who wanted to get rid of WCW. Kellner only did what so many were unable to do before. Only things that saved it was Ted Turner and the profits from the WCW good times. Once Turner was no longer in charge and the profits dried up, WCW was on borrowed time.
WCW had a constant record of not using young stars properly, Mark Calloway, Mick Foley, Steve Austin, Paul Levesque, Owen Hart, Adam Copeland... the list goes on. All the rejects were made stars in WWF.
Yes, truthfully, it was never going to be sustainable using Vince's trash as the all-around top star. NWO was hot for almost 2 years before it started to spin its wheels in mud. They completely ignored anyone who wasn't in the NWO beef. Had Eddie creating the LWO just to keep up. It was a total mess. I came to appreciate the cruiserweights as I got older.
It really was the Turner Execs, AOL/Warner merger, and Kellner. From the beginning the Turner Execs hated WCW even when it was profitable as they didn't get wrestling. If Ted was still in charged WCW probably would still be around. Though he probably wouldn't give anymore big contracts. According to Tony Schiavone even though Eric made big mistakes WCW would've been long dead before Vince bought it if it wasn't for him. Jim Herd's booking made Vince Russo's look like a masterpiece. Either way I still miss WCW as it was only company to compete and push WWF to think outside the box that to this day no other wrestling company has yet.
This was such an interesting deep dive and see what I missed during the Monday night wars. My cousins got me intro wwf back in the late 90s but I had 0 knowledge about wcw.
The moment Hogan signed that contract giving him 100% creative control. That's when the butterfly effect started. The tipping points were the failure of Starrcade 1997, the mishandling of Bret Hart, WM14 being a massive success, overexposure of the nWo, and the same ending to Nitro every single week, which was a match with no finish. All of that lead to a lot of different people losing faith in the product, from fans to executives. Hogan signing that contract, though. That was it.
This was perfect for the kind of RUclips video I was searching for this morning. I’m always down for a wrestletalk docuvideo like this, the recent ones like this have been awesome. Go check out more of their channel if you haven’t already.
@@chrischar9428Even when it was making money they didn’t like it because it was considered too low brow for their taste despite the fact shit like NASCAR was on their networks.
It was probably Rikishi, who did it for The Rock.
😂😂😂😂
No! He did it for the people!
Yo! I love this comment 😂
Zing👍
He deed it
KELLNER CANCELLED THE BATMAN ANIMATED SERIES!!!!!!!!
This man is the epidemy of evil.
Hedgefunders are evil
"Epitome"
Was because he's dead
Regardless of who killed WCW, Kellner is a monster. He killed so many amazing cartoons.
He cancelled Angel, too, even though it was the highest rated show on the WB at the time, ending the Buffy universe, which could’ve been the next Star Trek and would probably be running to this day if he hadn’t been so petty.
@@lovecraftianleviathan8918the irony was that Jamie Kellner was a wrestling fan, but he also understood that if a business under corporate ownership couldn’t sustain its own success in the long term, you might as well just cut the losses.
So Jamie was the guy that cut short the life of Batman Beyond, eh?
He's just made a hater in me. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
@@lovecraftianleviathan8918 And never getting a Faith Spinoff
As the meme goes, "F*** Jamie Kellner! All my homies hate Jamie Kellner!"
When the bubble bursted, AOL was liquidating assets like madmen. They not only sold WCW, they sold all the sports teams; the Atlanta Braves(baseball), the Hawks(basketball), the Thrashers(hockey),all the buildings they played in and other assets. Vince McMahon swooped in, bought it and then killed it.
For a few million, which VKM made back by "best of WCW" tapes from their video libraries alone. AOL wanted WCW gone at any cost. Too bad even AOL is now a memory too.
It's kind of funny that Jim Crocket Promotions died when Dusty and Flair and "all the boys" took full advantage of Crocket's ambition and started living it up on private jets and living like rock stars and grabbing as much money as possible and then the company tanked and Jim sold it to Turner. Then Bischoff became the next sucker to fall for it.
Or when Crockett didn't have a competent accountant
WCW unfortunately tried to be WWE... If they went back to a Jim Crockett platform it would have worked.
Wcw was far more profitable than jcp ever was I think end of the day what ultimately killed wcw was the constant change of bookers after the AOL time warner merger, which was not in 96 as stated in this video.... toward the end when they had John Laurinaitis booking it started to be good again, or at least much better than it had been, and on a cheaper budget and they still ended up selling sadly.
@@hundoe100 change of bookers...lol
@chrischar9428 constant change of them ... yes. The little storyline they had made no sense, they would just stop with nothing ever coming of it. People getting pushed then all of a sudden they're opening nitro and not even in a feud they were in.
IIRC when they had Kevin Sullivan back booking was why Benoit left, and he took Eddie Dean and Saturn with him... I never said it was the sole reason but im sure it played a big part. It's almost like if you changed writers 5 times on a season of a TV show, but they all had different ideas of how the season should go....
Scott Hall said it best “We made allot of money and spent WAY MORE then we made.”
He always believed it was mismanagement that lead to WCWs demise!
@@conservativewarrior777he wasn’t wrong though.
Sounds like AEW right now. Spending a lot more than theyre making.
It was mainly backstage management. Then the AOL/time Warner merger.
The Nitro book goes into that pretty well. It's not even up for debate anymore. It was never the TV booking that actually killed it. lol.
AOL/Time Warner's folks didn't want wrestling. The Time Warner execs in particular had wanted to kill WCW for years because they could get better revenue for running re-runs of Seinfield. The only reason WCW stayed around was because Ted Turner promised Crockett when it bought it that as long as he was in-charge, wrestling would have a place on his network, and kept his word.
If you're going to read any book on the subject, "The Death of WCW" is a terribly sourced book. Very little of what's in that book could be considered "fact" by journalistic standards - it relies on a lot of rumors and gossip. "Nitro" on the other hand, is *very* well researched. It talks to first hand sources, including former Turner execs. Which is where that theory comes from.
No it was the booking that killed WCW because well yes Time Warner eventually took WCW off television. You know what would have saved it if it didn't lose 60 million dollars in a single year you know what caused it to lose 60 million dollars in a single year the terrible booking so
@@clifforddavidson7273thank you. Been saying this for years against this dumb argument. If WCW was still a big success there is no way board members and share holders would allow this. Everyone uses the “well the board didn’t want WCW from the start”. They are referring to a different time when WCW was not a success and losing money. Things were vastly different in 2000 in the landscape of how companies operate. Especially publicly traded ones. It was no longer something advertisers kept away from too. Another thing very different from a decade+ prior.
@@Cander5142even so anyone that even does a cursory search on Kellner can show you the guy is a corpo suit of the worst kind
By WCW’s end it had largely trimmed away its worst parts and would soon have its most expensive ones out of contract and gone (Hogan, Nash, etc)
I mean the last Nitro showed this with who was actually on the card
Many people backstage and working both for Ted and WCW had small hopes that Eric could make the purchase earlier on cause if he could buy the rights he could keep WCW around and secure it elsewhere possible (that last part of moving it was rumored only)
But Kellner had zero care and just sold the entire program and all assets on the cheap allowing Vince to pick it up with hardly even a dent in his account
Then in the future and Kellner continues his reign of corporate crap and he actively killed multiple cartoons on his own networks thinking children wanted more live actions shows instead, most of which factually got lasted no more then 1 or 2 seasons before THEIR ratings sunk and no one watched them
👏
"And in the end, the death of WCW was blamed on...oh lets say, Moe."
I'm not a Russo defender, but as far as leaving WWF because they were adding a show and going to WCW who were also adding a show, I believe Russo has said that the issue was that he wasn't going to get paid more for the added workload and responsibilities. Moving to WCW saw him take on more work and responsibilities, but he was also paid more to do it.
You forgot to add "bro" to the end of your comment. Otherwise, good point bro
@@MrLuisisthebest WTF, bro? Why'd you even bring that up? Not cool, bro. Not cool.
WCW already had Thunder when Russo joined and Thunder was not his main responsability. Plus he was allowed more time with his family in NY than in WWF. Vince wanted him on the road 365 days a year.
Respect the hustle
Oh boo hoo for little Russo.
Ok the most frustrating part about all that is finding out what Kellner did to my cartoons.
Anyways, excellent video!
It was death by 1000 cuts.
Wrestlers had huge guaranteed contracts and the stable was so huge that guys didn't have to wrestle or come up with content. Most of the talent was older ex-WWF stars that were already established and didn't have to prove anything... The fueds got old real fast... It was exciting in the beginning of N.W.O... It was like a few badass gangs fighting each other... Like Hells Angels vs Mongols, so that was sweet... but then it became that week after week... and the fights weren't personal, they were just kinda like "these guys are rivals so they hate each other"
Good point. I think Hogan was the biggest problem but I have to agree... It was a perfect storm of nonsense going on backstage and in the boardroom...so in the end there's plenty of blame to go around.
@@darylmixan8170no, it was not the wrestlers, not even Hogan. Yes the top guys could practically do whatever they wanted, but if you give guns to monkeys you don't blame the monkeys when people get shot.
Death by 10,000 broken guitars
Really was
No matter how many "Death of WCW" videos and docs I watch... I can NEVER get enough. Never...
😄 By this point we've been watching them for about 2 decades. I read the book too.
Whoever told Tony Schiavone to spoil the Mankind vs Rock finish.
That would be Eric Bischoff. It was a tactic he used during the Monday night wars. WWE would pre-tape there shows back then and Eric would spoil the results of that match on Nitro ahead of time. It was a tactic that worked up until he got to The Rock vs. Mankind. I guess Bischoff underestimated Mick Foley's popularity and it completely backfired on him😂
No they said that even after viewers switched they then switch back to Nitro. Because it was going to be Kevin Nash vs Hogan. Then the finger poke of doom happened. There was a lot of interest in this match. So it was a missed opportunity. This was probably Hogan creative control. Who knows
@@jeremyzak654he also underestimated Austin as well…
@MrBranh0913 Nash said it was both him and Hogan who came up with the "finger poke of doom" he though it would raise heat until next ppv, but by that time fans had enough of WCW wrestler creative control and tunes out in mass. I was one of those fans.
eric getting rid of syxx
I think you did Bischoff a bit dirty in his pre-Nitro era, after he took charge from Bill Watts. He wasn't spending big at the start, he was carrying out a lot of cost saving measures including the move to Disney MGM, cutting travel costs, cutting production costs including staff, and only going after Hogan and Hart - all other wrestlers came to him, including Randy Savage who he basically got for free due to the Slim Jim deal. In fact arguably he saved the company in 1994, because Watts left it in such a bad condition.
Yep.. and his strategy was a lot more than: spend money and buy talent lol. He also got a bunch of other basic facts wrong… salary, etc.
WCW was close to closing their doors prior to the nWo story. It saved the company…at least until Time Warner finally killed it off
Bischoff also wasnt a card carrying KKK member like Bill Watts... so he has that going for him. he wasnt in the KKK
But the problem is, wcw cost what a good quality first baseman did to Turner.
@@Robman0908 that is true. It was conveyed to Eric when he took over that as much as Ted liked wrestling, if it didn’t turn around he was pulling the plug.
Vince McMahon: "It was me all along!"
It was, via Bischoff, but whether broader pro sports sanctioned the implosion when they saw the money it made that one year is question. It really did not peak in it's booking and might have been sustainable, with less funding needed than mlb or nfl.
Jim Ross"Oh Sunuva Bitch"
“Ah son of a b****”
JR: AWWWWW, SON OF A B----!!!!!
🤣😂😆
the death of WCW wasn't just one thing. it was a multitude of multiple things, from bad leadership, bad booking, bad decisions, ego, bad luck, among other things.
There are a ton of moments that let wcw crumble, from them saying mankind was gonna win the championship, to the finger poke of doom, to putting the belt on Arquette and Russo, to plenty of others. There was just so many things that wcw did wrong.
I also think Statcsde 97 was poorly booked (Sting squashes Hogan and instead it was the “fast count”
Man, you know so much without having been there and having never talked to anyone involved
@@1980Triumphthere have been countless videos, articles and books about that period in wrestling history. It’s not necessary to have been working for WCW to know what was going on. I think you wanted to make a smart quip but failed. Never mind. Go and read a book about jokes so you know how to make them in the future.
I agree
@@thefuturist8864 - yes and they all say that it was the merger and the lack of interest from management regarding wrestling that killed the business. So, when some wrestling fanboy makes stupid claims like this it just ruins any real meaningful conversation.
It's a mixture of all of them, but the AOL merger definitely affected them the most.
Ted has an personal connection with WCW and would pump it with money to keep it alive, AOL was an business that didn't see WCW as an money maker anymore.
@Red_Hood_Outlaws If WCW keep their high ratings and was beating RAW, it would have been appealing to advertisers. WCW numbers weren't always accurate and running at an loss, that's why the top names signed contracts with Time Warner instead so their contracts wouldn't be considered in their finances.
@@HarleyQuinnSoldier Similar to my first comment then
@@HarleyQuinnSoldier
There was a reason Ted did that .
I guess you've never heard his explanation before.
I can't explain it properly, but it was something like a loss leader type thing.
😂
I don't think WCW was too far gone to save. Look at how TNA turned itself around, look at how NJPW recovered from Inokyism. Given a chage of philosophy it could have been restored. The Time Warner executives killed WCW.
The president of time warner I assume will be the answer. Lossing their tv spot is always gonna kill your program if no one can watch easy
Ok not 100% right but called it
@omarkennedy7056 Turner owned wcw when Ted lost control of his own company in the merger aol didn’t want wcw so biscoff had a backer but aol didn’t want wrestling on their tv when that happened biscoffs backer backed out and aol sold wcw to vince for Pennie’s on the dollar
Thats bullshit answer if thats what they say, (just started the video) because lets be real if wcw was still doing massive number the tv spot isnt going anywhere
@@jimbowlan5804 Yep, and this was about a decade before streaming really took off, let alone live OTT streaming.
@@jimbowlan5804 wasn’t just AOL, the TimeWarner management also hated wrestling
Being a fan, back in the day, I believe that the NWO destroyed WCW. It was fun for all of two minutes, and then every single match ended in a disqualification to build up the pay-per-view story lines that also (often enough), ended in disqualification. It just became an absolutely unbearable show.
Soon enough, during the Monday night Wars, I was only watching WCW during WWF commercial break. Meanwhile, I was quickly hitting the previous channel button to see if the WWF commercial break was over, yet.
When WCW told us that Mankind won the World Championship. And everyone flipped to WWF to see it
And that was probably Vince wanting to hurt Foley on paper, but Trumped by wcw sabotaging itself.
Absolutely loving these new Saturday vids like this
Revealing WWE’s results was a Bischoff thing, so that would be traced back to him.
Tony Schiavone killed WCW confirmed
@@RobertGreenwaldI just love that they were doing it for years and being petty, only for it to coincide with the Fingerpoke, and ended up being a major blow when they convinced people to tune to WWF
33 1/3 % chance that it wasn't Scott Steiner
Kurt angle knows he can't beat Scott steiner so he won't even try
But that is not taking account of the other 74.23% advantage from his peaks...so it was more like 107.53% - 3.43% from the bad refs...so it left 104.10% ...+ 21.83% of awesomeness bonus...so 125.93% chances it was Big Poppa...get it right brah! 😊
The math checks out @@alyours2889
But there’s only a 17.7% chance of that being accurate.
WCW killed WCW. Allowing old guys to have creative control and not allowing young guys to breakout Scott Stiener, DDP, and Booker T Should have been Main Eventers long before they where. Guys like Konnan , Kanyon, and Buff Bagwell could easily been top guys.
Nash wasn’t the greatest booker either.
@@BigBass-xf5yi the hog wild also cost them money to and also hairing kiss
You also have to take into account the popularity of the N64 games at the time. It can’t be stressed enough how the license of the AKI games going from WCW to WWF influenced many kids to make the switch as well, which was all right around the time that the switch over of fans started hitting
AKI was the shit when it came to wrestling games. Still playable to this day unlike what Acclaim and LJN put out.
Def was not video games lol. Jesus
Oh man and I was proud to have owned all of those N64 wrestling games it didn’t matter what AKI did when it came to wrestling games whether it was WCW or WWF they could do no wrong in those days because they actually understood what made wrestling games great and what made wrestling great in general unlike the guys that did the PlayStation games.
@@Adamtendo_player_1 those games are still the best to this day.
I’m really enjoying these, well edited, well researched videos! Keep it up!
Jamie Kelner pulled the plug on the dying patient, but someone else put the patient on life support in the first place.
they also axed monstervision, which was such a fan favorite they brought joe bob back almost 20 years later.
This was a phenomenal video, learned a lot of stuff about WCW that I wasn’t too familiar with. Well done WrestleTalk!
Exactly!!!
I always felt bad for Ted Turner over the AOL merger. He gave wrestling a home. A couple bad decisions and he lost control of his company. But, yeah, that Jamie guy killed so many of my childhood shows 😡
Starrcade '97 was such an easy lay-up that even now, 27yrs later, it boggles the mind that they fucked it up so greatly.
Even ignoring the idiotic decision to have Luger beat Hogan first (thus showing it was not a John Wick-style impossible task), the match should have just been a glorified squash with Sting trouncing Hogan (even no-selling the Atomic Legdrop), winning the title and ending the nWo angle on a high.
It was Hogan.
Hogan did it for the Hogan.
@@onewarriornation602don't forget Sting's drug problem. Bischoff and Hogan take all of the slings and arrows and both have NEVER mentioned Sting's problems. Thankfully Sting finally put out an article a couple of years ago where he even said he's lucky to be alive considering how bad his issues were in 1997.
@@RG-lr4pk That's what's funny about the Hogan Derangement Syndrome the neckbeards all have, Sting has come out numerous times talking about how he was heavily addicted to painkillers and alcohol during that whole thing, miserable and his life was falling apart causing a whole host of issues.
Yet the basement dwellers plug their ears and continue trying to run with the Meltzer narratives regarding that time period.
That was WCW.
Either ignoring/forgetting long term plans or simply throwing them away for spontaneous idiocy.
I'm not saying the Luger victory was bad, but for him to manhandle the whole legion of nWo run in attempts was,sometimes that could have been done differently.
Such as even when Goldberg won the title the next year, it was DDP who stopped the run in letting the match continue fairly.
@@onewarriornation602
You think a hero beating up a villain would be worse than what actually happened? 😂
Russo not even close. If you was there hulk and Bischoff had the best era in wrestling. They forced the wwe attitude era
As someone who enjoyed the Russo wrestling era of both companies I feel like Russo killed WCW but unintentionally because WCW had been around for a long time prior to him so maybe HIS style didn't work for traditional fans but maybe the ones like me who didn't watch WCW heavily prior.
Another banger of video essay. Keep them coming, i love them
I never knew that Turner opposed the AOL merger, and wanted one with NBC instead. Can you imagine how different the entertainment landscape as a whole would have been if they had listened to him? Warner would have grown to be as big or bigger than Disney. I think the real killer of a lot of things were the Time Warner board decided to go with AOL, and I also think that not enough people give Turner the credit he deserves
WCW and 90s NBA on the same network sounds like Money. Lots and LOTS of money.
@@khaitranngoc4176 funny enough, NBC and TNT both co-produced NASCAR races together from 01-06. Plus, commentators Bill Weber, Wally Dahlenbach and pit reporter Marty Snyder split time on TNT with NASCAR in 2007 and 08, while also doing American Le Mans (IMSA), CORR off road trophy truck racing and Champcar (CART) on NBC following the 1st departure of NASCAR on NBC.
Before I watch this it has been stated repeatedly that the driving force that killed the promotion was Ted Turner being phased out after the Time Warner merger. Time Warner did not want wrestling on either TNT or TBS and eventually got their way. This was well in motion before Vince Russo was even hired.
Before watching: it was the AOL-Time Warner merger that did WCW in. Ratings for the 2 weekly shows were still the highest of any program on either station. But AOL wanted nothing to do w/ wrasslin'.
EDIT: yup! While guys like Hogan, Bischoff, Russo really started it swirling the drain, even Turner making mistakes, it was the final merger that really killed it. Bischoff could've at least saved the brand w/ AOL cooperation. They didn't. Competition was over, WWE was alone and the product has never recovered.
Wwe would kill to have those rating these days and I honestly think the company would have turned it around as Aj styles was coming into his own, and such…
Love these Saturday video essays
The Radicalz left after Bischoff was gone. That was what made WCW call Eric back
All 4 were upset they never had the main titles. The worst part to me personally, they were making good money. They had their specific fans, including myself. Under Bischoff they were allowed to do normal matches exactly like in Japan. What I saw in the WWF with them was misusing them severely at first, then having them in things still worse than anything they did in NJPW, ECW, or WCW. I'd say in 2 cases the pressure to look "big" enough for Mc Mahon lead to the early deaths, and in 1 case murder too. I get it they took steroids before then, but I bet they really overdid it in the WWF. To me Malenko's treatment was the worst. He was my guy in the mid 90s, and then they do that to him. Oh well, what happened happened.
Kevin Sullivan getting the book also made Benoit wanting to leave for obvious reasons
@@dodesskiy1What the hell are you talking about?
And Russo too. Kevin Sullivan booking was somehow even more of a disaster. He tried to put the title on Benoit as a last ditch peace attempt only for all of them to immediately leave anyway the next day. Made the company look like a joke, which it pretty much was at that point.
@@TL2354
It seems he's talking about WCW
"WCW screwed WCW" -Jamie Kellner
Jaime Kellner didn't just kill wcw. He killed wrestling. Giving vince no competition is why wrestling slowly sank in popularity and ppl saying now is like the attitude era...no. not even close. wwe has improved but it only gets at best 1/5 of the attitude Era audience
It is super popular now. The difference is TV is dying. So ratings are not a good way to gage the popularity. It especially has become bigger around the world.
@@soulcrusher807 It's super popular but it's only super popular everywhere but 'merica with their tik toks, fortnite and whatever else zoomers like.
@@soulcrusher807 Pro-wrestling is not as popular now as it was in the 1980s, 90s, and early 00s.
Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold, and The Rock in their heydays had mainstream popularity that transcended wrestling. People with zero interest in wrestling knew who they were from pop culture.
Everyone knew who Undertaker, DX, etc were
No one since then, not even John Cena, managed to do that. Certainly not any of the wrestlers now. The chances are, if you have never followed wrestling (and don't have kids, etc who follow it), you've probably never even heard of Cena (except from Hollywood nowadays maybe), Reigns, etc.
Brock Lesnar became 100x more bankable (and he was already a top WWE star when he left in 2004) because he went to UFC and won the Heavyweight Championship. If he'd stayed in wrestling he would've never reached those heights.
I think you overestimate how much of this under control of Vince and the pro-wrestling world. If Vince could've kept the Attitude Era going, he would've. But it was beyond his control that he lost The Rock and Stone Cold as full time wrestlers (no one has come close to the starpower they had) and wrestling losing relevance in pop culture because of the internet and the rise of things like UFC.
Vince *tried* to keep the Attitude Era going, technically, with the Ruthless Aggression era. It was still TV 14, it still had lots of violence, blood, objectifying the fuck out of the female roster (bra and panties matches etc), 'adult' storylines. It just didn't have the same appeal or star power anymore, and they were bleeding money.
That's why they went TV PG and started catering more to kids, because it was great for getting that sweet advertising revenue in.
@BlossomField91 the difference now is not in the home base, but the expansion into other markets. That more than makes up for not being as popular in North America.
Loving these special Saturday videos. As a WCW kid I was super sad to see what happened. Great video as always.
Warning signs for AEW NOT TO FOLLOW. great video guys. In the wake of the big contracts of okada, mone and ospreay, we're starting to see the checklist ticked one by one. Lets see if AEW can keep the tv deal.
According to Bischoff, Hogan very rarely used his creative control… keep in mind he has a lose Billy Kidman…he used his creative control for his match with Sting because Sting didn’t want to win because he was struggling with an addiction issue but in Hogan’s mind it was the only conclusion that made sense so as a middle ground they settled on a Dusty finish, notice Sting didn’t remain champion for long and after he lost it he disappeared from TV.
It was Eric Bitchoff who ruined WCW. Vince "Bro" Russo finished it off.
Don't leave out Hogan
Luke... this was yet another incredible piece of work you all put together. The research and detail was amazing! Thanks for another great video essay guys. Love these!!
Nice! An educational video from wrestletalk including the right amount of jokes! No overdoing it with a mask or unfunny jokes. I appreciate videos like this. It reminds me of the old days of wrestletalk
16:41 You know, back in the PS2 days when when the Smackdown games were the best thing ever, I created a wrestler called 'The Wall', never knowing that there was a wrestler by that name in WCW. In fairness, I didn't watch WCW much.
want me to one up ya? WHen i got my hands on one of the PS1 Smackdown games... can't remember which one... I hadn'T had much exposure to pro wrestling at the time except for the old SNES Raw game. I put UNdertaker and Kane in a team named "Big Red Machine"...
The Wall got over the guy he was supposed to the bodyguard of (Alex Wright had a great rebrand and unfortunately he stopped lifting weights and came in all pale and flabby)… he had a nice Chokeslam
Funny enough I had a friend who created himself on no mercy and called himself "Chainz". If I had known there was already a wrestler with that name, I'd have called him out on it.
You mean Snoozedown
Would be funny if Vince was wearing a Ted Turner disguise, and then came to WWF and then said "It was me WCW! It was me all along!"
Love these deep dive type videos. Great work as always fellas.
My answer will actually always be AOL Time Warner. At the end of the day, they pulled the plug. They refused to give Eric a time slot when he offered to buy.
Blaming Russo and Bischoff’s creative choices, Hogan’s politics, etc is deep and interesting. Unfortunately, the real answer is just boring, corporate America
Guaranteed contracts no matter what. Spending like crazy. It was a ship with no captain
This and I still think giving Hogan that much creative control, when he also has the biggest ego (dude no one cares you lost to yjr Warrior at WM, we didn’t need that only works in thr WWF, Warrior in wCW
@@Sting283guaranteed contracts eh...thanks Bill watts
You can blame AOL all you want, but that doesn't explain any of the issues leading up. Loss of viewership, loss of money, etc. It was dying/dead and lingering before AOL
@@MaximumCarnage5150 and having a free PPV
Eric Bischoff, in my opinion, is the one who killed WCW. He signed several guys to massive contracts and never used them. He threw around guaranteed money like beads at Mardi Gras. Made several idiotic creative decisions like The finish of Starrcade 97's main event being the most egregious of them as well as signing off on the Starrcade 98 main event where Goldberg's streak ended. He also allowed a toxic culture in the locker room and squandered talents like Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and worst of all misused Bret Hart and booked him terribly. It is easy to scapegoat Russo as he did serious damage to the company as well and put the nail in the coffin. But Bischoff is the one who built the coffin in the first place.
WCW's demise was like the 3rd ending to Clue; they all did it but Turner murdered WCW in the hall with the revolver...
That doesn't work for me, brother.
Once again the WrestleTalk boys have put out an amazing video essay! Keep up the incredible work!
If I may paraphrase Jim cornette here on this topic
"Everybody had a finger in that ol' W***e"
“Mums were out on poles” should be a meme
Hogan then Russo. Starrcade 1997 was the start of the beginning of the end followed by the Fingerpoke of Doom.
Agreed. If Hogan had lost clean and let the nWo die: it wouldve been remembered as one of the greatest stories ever. Still beloved and everything leading up to that match was perfect but Hogans ego won't be denied. Then, there was Russo's "reset" God it was awful.
You convinced me that it was Bischoff because he couldn’t reign in Hogan. I remember feeling this at the time, too. Speaking personally, I bailed on WCW when Jericho did.
actually the referee said on Chris van Vliet that Sting said to count fast and Hogan said to count slow so he just went down the middle and did a normal count. So he I think he didn't wanto decide between them. But really it just shows the division in the roster and unnecessary power struggles in the back.
It shows this was such a bad idea… Hogan had been the biggest chicken bleep heel, never defending belt, talking for 20
Mins (19 mins too long), and just being a total coward, until that match and he turned into monster heel and made Sting look bad… man I wish Eric had just had more faith in Foley and Austin and kept them and never brought HoganC unless he has limited creative control and he does what the booking says for PPV
A bunch of dudes on the net whining about a slow/fast count.....who cares??? Does a count have anything to do with the closing of the company?
The AOL/Time Warner merger.
Everything else might have HURT WCW, but if those problems got remedied or never happened, all it would have done was maybe make the bleeding last longer or cost Vince McMahon a little more in the acquisition.
Great Video
Now though, you have rekindle my hate for Jamie Kellner
Bastard took away half my favorite cartoons!!!!!!!
Which ones? I read Batman Beyond could have been one, but there are other cartoons he took away?
1:42 Ted Turner?
3:07 Georgia Championship Wrestling.
5:45 TBS
7:25 Eric Bischoff?
9:27 September 22nd, 1995: Time Warner Purchases TBS Merger
11:42 Hulk Hogan?
15:04 Disdain for Hulk Hogan in the WCW Lockerroom in 1998
15:48 1998
18:44 Vince Russo?
20:07 Bash At The Beach 2000.
21:58 Halloween Havok 1999.
22:53 Jaime Kellner?
25:08 Jaime Kellner. 26:04 SOLD WCW To Vince McMahon.
26:45 From the end, going back. Looking back across the timeline.
28:00 Ted Turner's Loss of Power.
28:40 Who Killed WCW? All of these people mentioned in the video.
I support wrestletalk
Bishoff either refused to push top and mid card WWF talent in the Monday night wars. His inability to see in to the future and blind loyalty to the past.
Austin, Taker, Kane, HHH, Jericho, this on top of the top card allowed to book their own stories to go over super clean.
Batman Beyond catching strays for no reason
My view is it was all of them, they all had a hand in its demise, Hogan, Bischoff, Russo, Kellner, all of them
Lol Moms were put on poles! I actually just watched that Buff Bagwell Darkside of the Ring 😂
It was me, Luke. It was me all along.
I just remember getting fed up with WCW and stopped watching.
Every week each episode of TV seemed to end the same: a big match was announced, you look forward to it, then when its finally time it ends with the big chaotic WCW ending... and for a while there I was OK with that because you kind of understood they wanted to save the big finish for the next PPV.
But then these chaotic endings with everybody running in to the ring and garbage flying and all that started happening at the PPVs as well and it just got to "Why am I paying $50 for this PPV if its not going to finish any stories?" and then "Why am I watching Nitro if its not going to finish any stories or lead to a finish on the PPV?"
I think you're describing Russo's way of looking at it all. Cornette hated him for it in the WWF. Russo didn't care about wins, losses, belts, DQs. He wrote TV shows. And he wanted that shock value. I've recently decided to watch one show from 1999 when I stopped watching. Man oh man. It was a train wreck. BTW they wanted less offensive kid friendly TV and they hired Russo? I bet you they never watched any pro wrestling period.
@dodesskiy1 Except it was happening in 96. Russo wasn't in charge of writing at WWF in 96. WCW started being repetitive before whatever you're trying to say. He's right. It got to the point where the NWO is coming out. Here comes 3/4 of the locker room. Just no direction
All good, but NWA Power and AEW are bores. It can't be all crash tv, but it can't be all Cornette-fanboy wrasslin either.
Yeah. Those "flying garbage moments" were exciting for a while, but it got old after 2-3 years of the nWo just winning everything. And then when the nWo red/white split happened, it became a tedious stalemate. They had booked themselves into a corner, because they couldn't afford to let Nash or Hogan look weak.
And speaking of booking themselves into a corner, you had Goldberg's winning streak. By the end of 1998, Goldberg had already squashed 90% of the roster. Nash was the most credible challenger left. I think that something like the screwy finish to Starrcade 98 was inevitable.
I was actually cautiously optimistic about "The Fingerpoke of Doom", since I had grown so tired of the Hollywood/Wolfpac feud not going anywhere. It seemed like, maybe, the nWo reunification would be the first step toward the dissolution of the nWo. (I was right, in retrospect, but not in the way I expected.) Then, maybe, WCW would turn it around and give us something fresh. Instead, it was more of the same nonsense. And Jericho leaving was the final straw for me.
Road Wild wasn’t the only PPV where the live crowd was let in free. 1995’s Bash at the Beach was held on a public beach and the crowd was let in free too. I was there. If you have Peacock or the WWE Network, I’m the goof in the ugly military glasses and silly purple tiger stripe hat that was cheering on Harlem Heat at about an hour and six minutes in, so I know this was a free event for the crowd. 2024 me wonders how much money in production costs was lost because it was free to us, unless of course the filming of an episode of Baywatch and merch sales made up for some of that cost
Jamie Kellner is actually a wrestling fan, it was the longtime Turner Executives who hated wrestling
Its crazy how i feel AEW is making so many of the same mistakes. From the crazy contracts, to being on the same network, to struggling to make a profit.
Oh but their boss is a fan of the very worst of that era. So he's emulating it. But it's all for him, I saw one documentary where he said he paid for people to be in seats. It's all like an action figure set for him.
WCW shouldve did what WWF eventually did when HBK lost to Austin at 98 Mania. The next night on Raw HHH took over DX
Nash shouldve took over the NWO after Hogan lost to Sting. Nash shouldve said Hogan dropped the ball but now I have picked it up and then introduced a brand new member. A big reveal
A big reveal of their newest member…
…AND HIS NAME IS JOHN CENA!!!!
@@PhillysOkayestDadthe worse part is that Cena was in the power plant which means he could have been nwo
This only happened because of drugs and a back injury though
This is how I book Starcade 97, Hall and Nash start to get annoyed always helping hogan but not get any of the credit, finally they tell Hogan he is on his own, Sting squashes Hogan, Hall and Nash kick Hogan out and now Hogan can do his face run … or the NwO dies and w have the wolf pac , with limited matches
True but eventually around that same year around April mayish there was THE NWO SPLIT
Dang it Luke! You turned this into one of my wife’s shows where “we may never know”…thank you for bringing this type of content back!
Please do The Rise, Fall and Rise again of TNA🙏🏾
Wasnt russo in charge of that for a while ?
Batman beyond was NOT kid friendly tf? That show was a lot darker than you remember
Still was good cartoon
Officer Barbrady?
The 1998 Denver Broncos?
Maggie Simpson
Seems like wrestling has a problem with people not being team players, wanting to go into business for themselves, at the expense of companies.
Nash booking himself over Goldberg was the beginning of the end
Hulk Hogan's always been an honest guy, that's why Metallica invited him to be their bass player
I feel like Vince Russo drove WCW into the abandoned ally where Time-Warner assassinated it.
Jamie Kellner is the person that killed WCW and also some of my favorite childhood cartoons. What an a-hole.
Agreed
I still remember as a little kid when Bobby Hennen revealed the big gold belt on a Saturday morning wrestling show. As a wrestling fan, it ranks as in top 3 mark out moments in my life.
I knew WWF was fake but knew about real wrestling in the Olympics. I didnt know wcw e isted and when Flair showed up and they were calling him the real world champ my 6 year old brain thought this meant that Flair was the legit shoot wrestling world champ 😅
Only a few mins in, but props on the production of this guys! Top top work!
Luke you really did a great job on the two videos i've seen you do deep dives. You guys deserve wrestling awards for this content. Informative and entertaining. Well done WrestleTalk team.
Love the time and work that went into this. More of this sort of content please.
After this video, WCW kinda looks like the Organization version of Cesar
Turner/Time Warner/TW-AOL management never liked having WCW on their books and even during the best days of WCW there were managers who wanted to get rid of WCW. Kellner only did what so many were unable to do before. Only things that saved it was Ted Turner and the profits from the WCW good times. Once Turner was no longer in charge and the profits dried up, WCW was on borrowed time.
It was Bill Watts after Jim Herd got fired then Eric Bischoff.
I believe there was one more person between Jim herd and bill watts.
@@davidsalvador4247 Kip Frye
Yeah Eric was an on camera guy strictly at first.
Predictably, “all of them”/“everybody” was the answer.
WCW had a constant record of not using young stars properly, Mark Calloway, Mick Foley, Steve Austin, Paul Levesque, Owen Hart, Adam Copeland... the list goes on. All the rejects were made stars in WWF.
Yes, truthfully, it was never going to be sustainable using Vince's trash as the all-around top star. NWO was hot for almost 2 years before it started to spin its wheels in mud. They completely ignored anyone who wasn't in the NWO beef. Had Eddie creating the LWO just to keep up. It was a total mess. I came to appreciate the cruiserweights as I got older.
When was Owne and Edge I. wCW?
@andu1854 Both were there very briefly. Under different names.
It really was the Turner Execs, AOL/Warner merger, and Kellner. From the beginning the Turner Execs hated WCW even when it was profitable as they didn't get wrestling. If Ted was still in charged WCW probably would still be around. Though he probably wouldn't give anymore big contracts.
According to Tony Schiavone even though Eric made big mistakes WCW would've been long dead before Vince bought it if it wasn't for him. Jim Herd's booking made Vince Russo's look like a masterpiece. Either way I still miss WCW as it was only company to compete and push WWF to think outside the box that to this day no other wrestling company has yet.
i bet it was jeff jarrett. he broke 6000 guitars, never drew a dime. those must have been expensive! lol.
Guitars were write offs he was unsung financial franchise
This was such an interesting deep dive and see what I missed during the Monday night wars. My cousins got me intro wwf back in the late 90s but I had 0 knowledge about wcw.
Mankind is gonna win the WWF Championship
Boring!!!!!
The moment Hogan signed that contract giving him 100% creative control. That's when the butterfly effect started. The tipping points were the failure of Starrcade 1997, the mishandling of Bret Hart, WM14 being a massive success, overexposure of the nWo, and the same ending to Nitro every single week, which was a match with no finish. All of that lead to a lot of different people losing faith in the product, from fans to executives.
Hogan signing that contract, though. That was it.
VINCE RUSSO
This was perfect for the kind of RUclips video I was searching for this morning. I’m always down for a wrestletalk docuvideo like this, the recent ones like this have been awesome. Go check out more of their channel if you haven’t already.
In my opinion, what killed WCW were the corporate suits at Turner, who didn't know or want wrestling on their program.
But they didn't cause it to lose 10s of millions
@@chrischar9428Even when it was making money they didn’t like it because it was considered too low brow for their taste despite the fact shit like NASCAR was on their networks.
Ted Turner should have demoted Vince Russo and Eric Bischoff, and put Bill Watts, Ole Anderson & Greg Gagne in as WCW EVPs, in late 1999.
FUCK that guy who said no! GD!!! Still miss WCW!
The idea that Bischoff didn't have a hand in the demise is ludicrous. Bischoff 's arrogance and short sightedness was a long term disaster.