Do Audio Cables Matter? YES, But Not for the Reason You Might Expect! - High-End Audio Myths
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- In this video, I want to talk about audio cables. Speaker cables, RCA Cables...excuse me, I mean interconnects ;-).
I received cables from NB Speaker Cables in Australia. Awesome guys and awesome cables. I tried some of their 11 AWG cables called The Superhero and The Villain. Their bottle of snake oil made all the difference. LOL. Check out their website.
▶ www.nbspeakercables.com.au/
I also received some speaker cables from one of my favorie budget audiophile friendly companies, Micca. Theirs is a 14 AWG cable with an interesting exterior. I like it. They also have a banana plug that just works. Here's a link to the Micca speaker cables.
▶ Micca Speaker Cables on Amazon: bit.ly/MiccaSpeakerCables
My DIY Speaker Cable Video:
▶ • My DIY Speaker Cables ...
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Jazz Music by my uncles, Ron Anthony and Ron Affif. It's from a recording I did over 10 years ago on Christmas Day.
Intro song: Friday
Music By The Passion HiFi
www.thepassionhifi.com
Intro song: Friday
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www.thepassionhifi.com
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Best intro ever, I was smiling all the way. I wanted to make a new video on this topic too, the most controversial topic ever. Great video as always, watched it more than once.
Make a video! It's always good to have a different perspective. People need to know that it's ok to respectfully disagree.
Thomas, please make a video. I know you do believe that cables make a difference in sound. But I also like how you explain it, and I'm the guy that usually doesn't hear difference between cables. Would be great if you included some real blind tests :) BTW, just subscribed to @Joe
Thank you!
I just saw a video where you actually say expensive cables vs other expensive ones make a difference. well which is it.
@@IsmaelMartinezPRMy experience tells me it does but it does not stop me from enjoying this video. I think people take this cable thing too seriously...we can all have different point of view and still be respectful.
The 19k $ shoe laces will make you run faster, guaranteed! Because people will be chasing you to try to steal them. You'll have no choice but to run faster.
😂😂😂
Joe N Tell exactly what I was thinking. You hit the nail on the head.
hahah XD
For speaker cables, low resistance is the priority and gauge (diameter) matters if the length exceeds ten feet (about three meters), for line-level unbalanced signal cables (e.g. "RCA") the priorities are shielding effectiveness and shunt capacitance (the lower the better), so thicker is not necessarily better electrically. It should be mentioned that at the usual home stereo speaker cable lengths of under ten feet, the wire gauge is almost irrelevant -- anything 22 AWG or thicker is going to sound pretty much exactly the same unless human psychology in the form of confirmation bias is involved, e.g. "I paid so much for this cable that I'm not going to admit there's no improvement -- even to myself." As for banana plugs, if they're not of good quality they can actually be worse than stripped wire ends on (well-tightened!) binding posts or even those dreaded spring terminals you find on low-end speakers -- IOW, don't bother with them unless you're prepared to go for the good stuff, because their shape can give them a pretty narrow, unreliable contact area if they're not made to the correct dimensions with the right kind of properly plated spring steel. Remember, a stripped (and preferably "tinned" with solder) wire end has only one potential failure point, while any kind of plug has at least two -- one where the plug contacts the socket, and one where the conductor is attached to the plug!
Very good and accurate info!
I’ve spent way too much on the speaker cable snake oil theory over the years. Go with good looking 12awg like the man says, it’s pleasing to the eyes and ears!
and pleasing to your bank account
I always feel like my system sounds better when my room is clean 😂
me too
Vibrations are absorbed and reflected away more when the room isn't clean but when the room is clean there's not as many obstacles to reflect away the sound or to absorb the sound, thus making it sound different but usually better because the sound is more direct and thus, clear.
my system really sings when i convince a couple strippers to come over after there finished dancing and ive layed out some hollywoods..... only way to get through 40 hours a week of making sombody else rich
I agree
I was on my way to get some blinker fluid for my car,but first i will stop to get some speaker cable oil!!
Great video - this is the honest positive take on speaker cables. I enjoy having nice looking and well made cables because they are just that, but most consumers of expensive cables are reluctant to admit that the real value of cables is emotional, not acoustic.
Amazing work Joe. Love the intro. Great topic, and one that I really do not have an answer to. But I did put a Type-R logo on my car and I could feel an extra 25hp boost.
Most important is:
- Leads thick enough
- Connectors make reliable contact
- Shielding is sufficient
- Cables are sturdy
- Flexibility, not too stiff
Silver connector pins can be useful to prevent contact problems, since silver oxidation conducts even better than normal silver.
Copper oxidation on connector pins creates reliability issues and gold plating can get eroded away.
Avoid soldering contact pins onto cables, since soldering tin is fragile and tends to crack/break. Try crimping when possible.
Regular copper leads is good enough for almost all applications, ignore the oxygen free 6N, 7N or higher purity types of copper.
@Peder Hansen Depends on the environment. In normal home applications the EMI is so little (thanks to EMC regulations) that it shouldn't be an issue indeed. But it's just good to be 100% certain by ruling out the possibility of EMI issues.
Best video on cables ever. Appreciate how open-minded you are. Loved the humor too!
Thank you. Yes, I'm open to be proven wrong.
This is the best conversation about cables that i have seen or read so far, I've been reading audio publications for over 30 years since Stereo Review Magazine was a hot selling publication, you remind me of Julian Hirsch who was a long time contributor to many publications and audio critic, he was an electrical engineer and used the scientific approach in all his writings, as an electrical engineer myself I couldn't agree more with you assertions, thank you for sharing !
Thanks Victor! 👊😎
The commentary with the beautiful footage of speakers is pretty much awesome right now. Subscribed.
I love your no-nonsense approach. Very informative minus the hype I see in lots of other videos. I really dig your channel.
I enjoyed and learned simultaneously. Thank you for sharing your knowledge mixed with your excellent and entertaining presentation.
Glad you liked it!
I use to build surround sound as a teen using old car speakers , worked fine
Brilliant. I'm a cinema engineer and the standard is 2.5mm solid core mains to the screen arrays, 4mm to each sub. Some of those runs can be 100's of meters and run thousands of watts. If it's good enough for professional cinema, it's good enough for domestic hifi.
I wouldn't be so sure
@@DaveJ6515 I'm sure enough that I won't be wasting money on expensive speaker cable when professionals prefer mains cable.
@@TeslaNick2 good for you. I assume you have actually tested this assumption accurately. If you cannot hear a difference, your choice is sensible: why spend more for no result?
I started a thread on AVSForums showing everyone how to make "high end" cables year and years ago....for which I was instantly banned due to cable sponsors complaining. LOL It still has thousands of views and hundreds of pages. I was Pure-Evil on AVS Forums. I still make my own speaker cables. I now use 1/2" thick 6 gauge x 4 triple shielded high quality power cables from an electrician supply for professionals. They sound fantastic, but of course no better than lamp cord as a connection is a connection...however, they are beautiful Anacondas running across my floor. If you have to have your cables exposed, they might as well look beautiful!!! Tech Flex is super cheap and easy to come by in any colour or combination. Good banana plugs or spades are also easy to come by cheaply. Don't buy into the bullshit in "high end" cables, as the only issue you need to worry about is if a connection is being made or not. That's it! Great video!
@sandor29420 if you could measure a difference then sure
Do you mean you made a thread that was merged into another thread and then banned for trying to sell custom cables to users? Because all of that is in the thread......
@@cyberlocc that's not true....but I wont bother to argue with you. Everything you said is false
@@JinxCanada LOL, okay, I really dont care anyway. Just saying that everything you are saying is documented on AVS forums. Your "thread" was merged into another, after less than a week, you have some posts, in a big thread, that later speaks about how you were banned trying to sell cables.
Do you have a link to your cable building? I'm looking to do exactly this now.
Nice video and well put, I recently found your channel but just subscribed today so thanks for the content. I'm more of a believer that even mildly well designed cables shouldn't have audible sonic differences, except maybe interference differences between shielded and non shielded or poorly shielded cables. Shielding is one of the reasons I bought the cables that are in my system, the other factor is exactly what was said here and that is the aesthetics and build quality. One of the guys I use to have do lots of work for me gave me a free pair of rca cables, they were solid silver core in air tube dielectric and fancy rhodium connectors, there isn't any sonic difference between them and any copper rca cables I have. I rarely would think I'd hear a difference when listening for it and swapping cables but any difference I've thought I picked up on were extremely subtle and then not there after switching back and forth the cables again.
Finally someone who is knowledgeable and knows what he is talking about when it comes to wires and how electricity works, refreshing.
Great video you hit the nail right on the head!!!
Get a nice copper cable that is thick enough and you will be set. This should not even be a question.
Maybe use shielded wires if you happen to be somewhere where there's a lot of EMI. But even then, it's probably not going to do much.
Or do tests in stead of simply assuming? :) And I agree...
All electrical wires are affected by EMI. Any change in magnetic flux incudes a current.
The question is _how much?_ It's one of the things affecting SNR, but it's usually not to a point you can actually hear, unless there's tons of it.
Usually it will be.
In some places there might be a lot more EMI though.
Anyway, simply adding shielding to cables _shouldn't_ add that much cost to them.
If a cable costs like $200, it's a rip-off. Even a shielded cable shouldn't cost more than like $20 or $30.
Knowbody Well, I’d like to try a good copper cable with decent connectors And silver solder to make my own cable. And then a set of very pure copper cables with those connectors.. Theoretically I can imagine impurities making a difference (simple physics), but I doubt it. The cheaper cable should be about 30-40 euros ($40) and the expensive set about 100 euros ($120). Probably way too much, but I want to give it all a good chance. One thing I DO know is that the cheap cable delivered with the components isn’t very good. Even I really do hear difference..
Thank You! I love your video... and the way you explain things...
Thank you!
Great video, love the car analogy. I thought i was the only one who's car ran nicer when i just finisher a 2 hour clean job.
Love the vid Joe. It was a heap of fun working with you on this one! Because of guys like yourself, the myths and 'Snake Oil' around the audio industry are coming to light giving consumers the info they need to make informed decisions about their purchases. It's quite interesting that even the bigger speaker companies are coming out with their own line of 'budget' speaker cables as they've identified the shift in the market.
Even as a 'manufacturer' of speaker cables, we still encourage people to try their hand at making up the cables themselves. It's quite rewarding, can reduce cost and will likely deliver the same audible result. Otherwise, for those that don't have the skills or simply can't be bothered, we're here offering some pretty badass cables at a reasonable price.
On a side note, I really dig the black cables you made up. I thought black was a little too 'boring/standard' when we introduced the Superhero and Villain, but I'm really digging it now. I think a 'Black Widow' cable might have to be on the cards ;).
Thanks again!
Black Widow sounds good! I enjoyed making this video.
A pretty heated topic as usual, but I think we're on the right side of the debate. ;-)
“Black Widow” wins the WAF award!
very cogent and well thought out 👌
Btw dude, I've noticed you also have this almost "Zen like" state when it comes to arguments and debates and life in general. Even with our super, beyond heated Bose debate, you kept it beyond cool, and far cooler than most period. That I find fascinating and respect. Glad to be back at it myself.
Thanks for that. I wish that were more true. I can get snappy when I feel like some people are being overly nasty for no reason. I strive to be a bit more chill about stuff so I appreciate that.
The placebo effect is real! If you give two pills to someone (containing the same total amount of active ingredient) the two pills are gonna be perceived more effective for most people than only one pill (even if 2x10mg is the same as 1x20mg). Also a psychotherapist charging 300$/h will be perceived way better and more competent than one charging 50$/hour yet it's not necessarily the case. Same can be true for whine (there's a video of this somewhere) and many other stuff. So if you pay 1000$ for a pair of interconnect, it WILL subjectively sound better, even if it's probably not better than a 50$ one. And you're not an idiot for thinking so, it's just the placebo effect.
It's called 'perceived value'. There is a tipping point of cost on most things. Getting it spot on takes some work, but once you get that price point that the customer doesn't think, " that's a low price! What's wrong with it" or " wow! I'm not paying that just for those!" The exception to this is evident when watching something like the "housewives" series. They have ABSOLUTELY no taste and it doesn't matter if it works or not, if the price tag, or label says ' I'm here look at me' then cost is irrelevant.
I really love what you say about "the experience"
Great video you made a lot of good points you opened many eyes.
Best cables for the money, in my opinion are the Mediabridge 12 gauge with banana plugs, they are fully molded with rubber to limit corrosion and 99.9 percent pure copper and only $15.00 for 6 ft.
Hi @Joe N Tell,
Thanks for an excellent low-key video on stereo cables! I even went to the link and read the entire book about speaker wire, even though I knew what to expect from over 60 years of experience as a stereo hobbyist and a professional in the broadcasting business. I have a few different systems going in my home and they all are using Radio Shack 16 gauge speaker wire, with runs of only 4’ to 20’ depending on the system location. I was thinking about possibly using the new banana plug cables because my living room gear can accept those cables, but I now think that I will just leave everything alone and just continue to enjoy the music as it is! Wow, I just saved $30, because I was looking at a set of cables from Crutchfield for my credenza system. The shortest length cable was 6’ and would be fine for the credenza interior.
Remember the days of Monster cable? I did try that, but it was a real pain to fit into speaker lugs so I went back to old faithful, my 16 gauge wire and that’s where I intend to stay. Thanks again, Joe, I really enjoy your work!
Hi again Joe,
I did change over to OFC (Oxygen Free Copper) 12AWG 6' long cables ending in Banana plugs. I was in the process of redoing my credenza system and I came across a $25 gift card that my granddaughter had given me for Father's Day! I ordered two pairs of Mediabridge cables from Amazon for $35, with the gift card it came to $9 out of pocket. They arrived one day later (Friday).
My credenza system consists of a Yamaha R-N402 internet capable receiver feeding a pair of KEF Q300 speakers and a slimline CD/DVD player. I think The MusicCast app is one of the best internet audio apps around and thus far I have filled about 30 of the available 40 memory slots. I am mobility challenged and had to sit on the floor and shuffle around while making the changes. The only glitch was that the banana plugs would not fully seat in the KEF's. It seems the plugs were about a half inch too long, but they still made proper contact. I honestly didn't expect any difference in sound, but was very surprised to note that there was more airiness, and the speakers seemed to have gained some efficiency. The overall effect was very pleasing! So there we are, I figured you would like to know how things went. Thanks pal!
I digging this video contemplating on these micca wires
So I'm putting a system in my vehicle. It's a higher end sq system. I had some monster cable speaker wires that I had acquired at some point in the past and had exactly what I needed for my build. 16 awg and 12 awg. I wrapped the 12 gauge in tesa tape for my 2 way active front speakers and I used the 12 awg for the sub and covered it in some braided wire sleeve.
People insist that it has to be some special car audio high end wire for quality sound. I just see speaker wire.
Now........ I can say this about the monster cable speaker wire. I have multiple runs of car audio specific speaker wire that came in kits or with speakers or something I acquired over the years. I also have various speaker wires designated as home stereo use. What I've noticed about the monster cable that has to be around 17 years old, is that the jacket is still as pliable and soft as it was new. Also, it has not corroded AT ALL..... A lot of the other cables I have are discolored from exposure to just the air and I live in a very dry climate. This monster cable still looks brand new. So, while people will call it overpriced gimmicky junk, it has lasted almost 2 decades through multiple home systems and now a car audio installation. In my opinion, the price I must have paid for it has been well worth it. It's actually saved me money, so I can't argue that!
One of the most satisfying moment when i've upgraded my system was when i built the power cables choosing the wire and the banana plugs. I don't know if the system really sounds better, but as you said it makes me feel better to watch a solid 4mm cable than a thin poor 1mm! :-)
Yes exactly! 👊😎
Great Point!
Those are really nice looking cables.
I don’t use expensive exotic cables myself, instead I use the middle of road type like Mogami, Canare,Belden
These are just right, and at a solid price. Great subject …..Thanks
Excellent analogies....I like your approach to this highly technical and complicated field....I think ultimately, it does come down to what you can afford and how it sounds, AND how it makes you feel.....🤙🏾😎☮️♻️‼️
Well done. I use professional Japanese cable not cheap but tested and very well made.
Like your style of explaining
Thank you for letting me know that!
One very useful metric to gauge the quality of a speaker cable is to measure its resistance, (ohms), over a common length. Say around 8ft? The lower the resistance between each cable, should provide a more accurate and responsive signal path to the speakers. I don't think I have seen any reviewer demonstrate this. May be a good, interesting topic for future content?
So. so, so, so well said! Great video!
Totally agree with you bro. Nice video.
Good Video, I agree w what you say I have 10Awg Cuz they look cool, But I made my own RCA cables W coaxial quad shield W 18awg copper cable , If you want to make difference spend money on this instead Kimber speaker wow it made a huge difference, Also binding post and jumpers (some are made w steel and some don't allow the pug to go in very far) and Banana plugs make a huge difference (Some have no tension and have a loose fit and steel in them ) Do magnet test. 1- Coaxial copper 2-Nakamichi Speaker BFA banana plug 3- KnuKonceptz Kord Speaker Wire Ultra Flex Blue OFC
I made several different pairs of wire to test on myself and friends. Consisting of 14 & 12 awg CCA & OFC with bare, pin, bfa, banana connects all 10ft lenght. Out of 5 friends non of them could absolutely be certain if I has switched the wires or not. I had hung a old king size sheet in front of my system. Going behind the sheet to change the wire and sometimes leaving the wires and just telling them I changed them. Basically for most people good 14 or 12 awg CCA is perfectly fine, paying a premium for OFC is really not necessary unless it helps ya sleep at night.
That's awesome that you took the time to do that!
You deserve a lot of thumbs up.
wow nice.. was wondering if you lose something by using bananas(since they are another component and from brass) from bare wires
Great video!
I use leftover bare speaker wire for LED lighting projects. I come from a mobile DJ/PA background. You nailed it on the head when you talked about cable length and thicker gauge cables. I also hate it when ‘audiophiles’ get snippy over adding an EQ to your hifi. I use 4-tracks (not 8-track), cassettes, rca victor cartridges, minidiscs, vinyl, and cd’s in my hifi setup. You can’t tell me that I’m not supposed to use an EQ and that all these formats were recorded exactly the same. Older vinyl is more tinny and less bassy as new vinyl. Cassettes were recorded on three different types with different types of Dolby. Dolby itself is an EQ process. Sometimes you can hear a constant ringing in live recordings because someone didn’t ring-out (aka EQ) the performers’ monitors correctly. EQ fixes that.
Everyone seems to be talking about speaker cables again. This has been talked into the ground, although i do agree with you. There is no quantifiable difference in speaker cable performance unless the guage is much thicker etc.... Or, over very long runs. The same cable, same length, same thickness has no quantifiable difference at all.
Awesome! Love your help!
Can you please fix the camera focus?
Read my other response to a similar comment
I used to use 14 gauge ocf zipcord from amazon. I finally broke down and bought cable from straightwire, the entry level. I was convinced I would not hear a difference, but there was a noticeable difference, even my s.o. noticed it. I don't know if the the zip chord copper was inferior,r but the difference was very noticeable.
You speak the truth. And funny !
Great video
In a car, the thicker gauge is because it is running 12V. Higher current = high gauge. With a higher voltage in the house, you do not require anywhere close to that thick.
You don't have to worry about noise for speaker cables.
For interconnects a bit more. With XLR you generally get a more snug connection and more rejection. (fully balanced)
Personally I like using cables from GLS Audio, ie speakons and XLRs.
Secure and won't come off even if you trip over one. You may even be able to drag your speaker along with it and you won't lose connection (twist lock w/ speakons).
In my opinion, if you want a robust connection that can also handle kw levels of power, this is the way to go. Installation is also faster and more secure too. Just don't trip over the cable or the amp or speaker is coming with you.
Except when I see people using zero gauge to wire up a 500W amp. Car audio people are just as nuts with their cables.
Insulation is only required for low voltage signal cables, not for speaker cables. Because the induced noise from nearby cables is so low that you will never hear it in you speakers directly. It would have to be amplified before you can even notice it.
Love the intro. Great!
Is there an audible difference between soldered and crimped banana plugs?
I have not not tried super expensive cables but have tried a cheap £7 XLR interconnect against one costing £800. I wont mention the interconnect as that would be wrong. There was absolutely no difference in sound quality. I suspect the super expensive ones do nothing too. In fact the £7 is in my system, the more expensive one made redundant after it could not reach the pre amp after re arranging my kit.
adding a subwoofer, or room treatments also good considerations to help system
I'm a Mogami and Canare fan myself. All other ones well.. whatever. That is why I make my own cables. I do like OCC over OFC though. In headphone use, I appreciate silver plated occ cables over basic OFC, but I could never tell any difference on speakers. Only in in-ear monitors.
The beginning of this video was hilarious about the snake oil LOL!!! Near the middle of the video he touched on thicker wires and electrons which was spot on. I remember running 8 foot runs of straight wire speaker cable bi-amped to the fronts. The rubber around the cables had melted near the banana jacks on the speakers end, it was very revealing! My cables were thin and my music was payed loud also the Parasound amp I was using was high current (15 amps) so I think thicker more conductive wires would have handled the energy flow from the amp. So not just sound quality but proper cable girth and insulation (EMI/RF/CL/UL) especially if you’re running your wires in-wall is extremely important!
Great video man! I do think people get carried away with 10k cables... but a high quality, all Cooper, braided cables are a must..
I've experienced sound changes with solid copper vs a bunch of copper strands. One solid wire carries bass better, a lot of small wires together carry treble better. Something to consider
Hi Joe N Tell,just found your channel,loved it,I'm a DIYer,built my tube amps myself,built my Altec 604-8g cabinets myself( I'm a cabinet maker) also my Leco L75 turntable has been completely upgraded and transformed, I would love to upload some videos on RUclips,but I realized how crisp and clear you sound on RUclips and was wondering what recording device you are using.
Thanks again,best wishes for 2019
All of my gear is here www.kit.com/joentell
You definitely should start a channel!
Awesome vid .
I believe in graphic equalizers because they work.
Great video Joe. Had not seen it, thanks. Next subject for the peanut gallery: Bi-Wiring.. would love to see the comments on that one.
It all comes down to Ohm's Law, resistance matters...
That snake oil was funny af!
Masterfully done vid
Thank you! 🙏
@@joentell just watched your SMSL AD18 vid and that's what I use for my bedroom tv hooked up to some old Tannoys 8s
Im a guitar player first and foremost. Cables make a monster difference in that world. Cables can dampen or increase noise, reduce high frequency content as length or shape changes (coily), improve or alter feel, and improve reliability. Everything in the signal path matters, how much is the question. At the end of the day it comes down to what you can afford and what can you tolerate. There is always a point of dimishing returns to cope w as well... Use what works for you. It's one of the last investments I would prioritize in hifi though. Building your own is absolutely worth learning.
I would like to know if some expensive cables actually degrade the sound or at what point is the cable too heavy for the application.
Joey! This by far, is my favorite review you have done. I love it because this simple humble cable review was actually in disguise (to me) an effective reality check. LOL..I know, because I loved reading the comments as much as your actual review itself.:) Through out your review, you are able to consistently show that you do understand why people spend more money then they should...because why not?! It's about the experience and that's unique to everyone. But just how much are you willing to pay for that experience? Just don't be an audio-douche and tell others how much better it sounds with your new 1000 dollar cables, haha..As for the budget conscious audiophiles, I totally agree that priority is key and it doesn't have to be a limitation. With good research, sound advice, and practical established knowledge..as well as your no BS RUclips Channel, a budding audiophile can have a decent sound system at any price point. Keep it up, your getting the word out!
That's spot in. Exactly what I was going for. I'm glad it came through in my video.
Longevity,looks and good grounding.
Those are very nice cables, yours are excellent as well! Did your order your parts from Mouser, digi-tech, parts express? Nice banana plugs!
I would like to know where to buy some of that snake oil from at cost price by the barrel full (a technical capacity). There's also the naming conventions of wires vs cables, which I guess can also be technically used interchangeably. Specificity can be important for sure. Like when people say "underpowering your speakers can be dangerous". If that was the case, every time you turned down the volume your speakers and other equipment would burst into flames.
This video is absolutely on point 👌
Lol about the snake oil.
Regarding the specific naming conventions, I just find it funny when a more complicated term is coined mostly to describe high priced versions of the same product.
Regarding underpowering, I think there is some truth to that. Lower powered amplifiers will clip sooner than a more powerful amplifier. Clipping produces the closest thing there is to a square wave, which can cause the speakers to go beyond their excursion/heat limits when played for extended periods of time.
"Underpowering" a speaker does not mean to make the amp wich drives it at low volume level. Actually, if the amplifier has a poor maximum power output, it is safer for the speakers to set the volume knob not too high.
When a manufacturer say this in the User Guide, he's saying an universal rule: do not use the speakers with an amplifier not able to deliver enough power (current, more precisely). Otherwise, you risk to "clip" the amplifier output, sending DC signal components to the speakers that can burn out the drivers' coils, ruining them hopelessly.
@@venturarodriguezvallejo1567 I am certainly aware of that, I do know about clipping from an amplifier whilst turned up to "adequate" or loud listening levels. AC-DC/sinewave-squarewave = bad. Overpowering in this regard *can* also fry a speaker too due to the increased thermals (I have personally experienced this in the car audio world). Once again, specificity can be important as is some of the theme of this video :-)
Nah nothing less than superconducting Nb-Ti cables soaking in a fresh supply of liquid helium will satisfy my golden ears.
I had set up my Klipsch 5.1.4 Atmos speaker system to an AVR -x4700H and in running the speaker test. the back speaker wouldn't work. In trying to adjust the cable on the receiver I got god awful feedback, I couldn't connected. I was told it was because I had all the wires from 5 speakers with 0 wires, most of them bunched together and connected at the receiver. Is this the case? and what gauge and or insolation should I get the wire with, if I want to still run the wires close together, to keep them neat. Thanks I would really appreciate any help with this.
By-the-way your video was the only one that spoke about insolation at all and your data was very thorough. Thanks.
It makes me feel better too. :)
I totally gave up on expensive branded cables and build all my cables myself.
Better sound ?? Probably not.
Worse sound ?? Probably not.
Cheaper ?? No doubt !
Fun ?? Hell yeah !!
Could you give a review on high fidelity cables?
I feel you covered this pretty well I was hoping for an actual side by side comparison but still good. I do feel like even if expensive cables provide 0.5% better its worth it to people who buy $20,000 systems. Otherwise spend that cash of better speakers or some new music or movies.
Even if there was a way to measure the difference, it would require more expensive equipment than what I have. Also, my microphones couldn't hear a difference, I doubt someone else could over RUclips.
You're absolutely right. There is just a simple ac current running through the cable (albeit with a freq. range of about 20 Hz to 20 kHz).
BEST VIDEO EVER!! Hey man, this is the "Bose Guy" from previous video(s), but damn if this isn't beautiful... Just one thing to tack on though: Shielding speaker cabling is horrible, and NOT what you want to do; I believe you were talking about RCA cables, which is yes, great, but speaker cable will get you the opposite effect; shielding withholds EMI 'release' from the speaker cabling, and will actually cause 'EMI Congestion' - which I found interesting after doing research on. Other than that: Super down to Earth video.
Btw dude, I'm finally moving on from Bose et al. I still stand by their far better than trashed online crap they get, but going back to true HiFi and it sounds better than ever.
No highs no lows, must be Bose!
The best video i've seen on the subject. I never understood why there is no authority to regulate cables nonsens in the audiophile world.
Nice video. On the screw terminal versus banana terminal connector though, if you peel away the shrink tubing you'll see the banana terminals are held on....via setscrews. Or maybe your preference is due to ease and cleanliness of connecting the components?
we did some tests, copper helps bass, silver helps mids. many wires help highs as high frequencies travel on the surface of the wire.But these are more noticeable before the amplifier ...Lets say between the cd or dac and the amplifier regardless you use rca or balanced.
An audio shop where I live has a stranded copper wire which is isolated in silver wire, which is again isolated in normal plastic isolation... would that be better or worse than pure silver or copper??
Nice video Joe. I have an off topic question that hopefully you can answer. What is your opinion on getting a powered speaker Vs. a speaker that is bi-ampable? This would be for 2 channel music listening. I have some older Def Tech towers and I really like them. I have the capability but don't have any experience with bi-amping. I want to set up a music room and would like some direction. Also, I have only had experience with towers. Would bookshelves and a separate subs make that much of a difference? Thank you
I prefer non-powered speakers because they're modular if you want to upgrade components in the future. I don't mind powered speakers for a desktop or as a replacement for a sound bar for simplicity.
But im not into bi-amping. I feel like it's a waste of resources in most cases.
Hey! Not Joe, but I agree with him that bi-amping is often a waste of resources.
Bi-amping CAN make a VERY small difference if you use a proper active crossover. And powered speakers are often bi-amped. But it's so small, not worth the extra money spend.
What is your goal? Music listening? If so, tower speakers tends to go lower than bookshelves simply because they can house bigger drivers and got bigger cabinets.
Here is the thing with subwoofers. Depending on the type of music you listen to they can sound GREAT!
BUT... they can also sound horrible if done wrong.
My Advice to get great sounding 2.1 setup is:
- Your bookshelves should go down to at LEAST 80 preferably 60 hertz to provide a good crossover point.
- Your subwoofer should be crossed over at 80 hertz and no higher then that. If you do you will be able to tell the bass does not come from the speakers and that sounds bad.
- For music, get a nice sealed subwoofer. You can go ported but pick a good one if so.
If you want to know more on why a ported subwoofers tend to sound less musical in general (NOT ALWAYS) read along. Or else ignore it :P
Depending on your preferred music type the type of sub you are gonna want to get is different. Subwoofers come in all shapes and sizes.
One thing they all have in common tho is that they use a rather big driver. And more often then not, the bigger the driver, the less "Punch" they can provide on similar power.
So what you get with cheap subwoofers is a lot of boomboxes. Where the bass is very boomy and not tight. This is what gives subwoofers a bad name for music listening.
If you listen to rock for example, you want a woofer that is very quick but does not have to go ultra low. In those cases you would be better of going for a sealed subwoofer as these have much better responds times. (and thus more "punch" or "kick" ).
Because of this sealed subwoofers tend to sound more musical in general then ported subwoofers.
So why/ when to use a ported subwoofer?
Porting a subwoofer increases it's output overal considerably above it's tuning frequency. It can also extend your lower frequency responds by a big margin. Now this might make your think, Great! Louder bass that goes deeper! Let's get that! Hold on! hold on.. there are downsides to this method (and there are more but I will keep it simple with standard ported woofers).
First of all, the lower they are ported below the drivers frequency responds the worse your responds time gets. This is why so many home theater in a box subwoofers sound so "boomy" and not clean.
Second, once you go below the tuning frequency the output falls of rapidly. Making them almost useless below their tuning frequency. And third, these boxes tend to be quite big.
I made a very powerful subwoofer myself that is ported but only uses a 10 inch driver. It goes crazy deep yet still sound quite musical because the drivers responds time in musical range is quite good.
So yes there are ported subs with great responds time down to your used frequency range but these tend to be more pricey with bigger drivers using massive magnets etc.
There are also powerful sealed subwoofers that go loud and quite deep. But these too, are often pricey.
So what type of sub do you choose?
Pick a budget, and compare what sounds best in their category. In general tho, sealed sounds better musically and ported sounds better for home cinema for those loud body vibrating explosions.
Of course there are many different types of cabinet designs and driver capabilities but this is just a basic explanation and I probably missed a lot and if so someone may improve me.
Hi there, great vid thnx. Could you recommend me a good set of book shelf speakers I currently have the Audioengine HD 3 and would like to upgrade
Air Jordans make you jump higher? Nah, that's not true. But Adidas make you jump further. ;)
From a scientific point of view (trust me, I'm an electronics engineer) *every* wire has an inductance, even if it's totally straight (see also: right-hand rule). If your amp stands between your speakers it's basically already half a winding of a coil from the back of the speakers to the back of the amp, right? A magnetic field is forming around *every* flowing current. The distance between the two wires of one cable also causes inductance and capacitance as in between the two electrodes of a capacitor. The inductance of one metre / yard of cable is a few nanohenry. The smallest available value of coils for crossover networks in speakers is 100 microhenry, so significantly bigger, *but* there's a probability for it to have an at least ultra tiny effect.
Unwanted resistance has a bigger effect on woofers: it raises their Q-factor which affects the tuning of the enlosure, especially in bass reflex boxes. The higher the Qts of the woofer the more sensitive the tuning of the bass reflex enclosure is to changes of parameters. This becomes significant for a Qts of about 0.4 or higher, which is even quite a normal value for Qts because those drivers produce the lowest bass. The bass might lose precision or the deepest bass can disappear. An additional resistance of 1 ohm in series with an 8 ohm speaker raises the Qts by 17 %! I admit that resistance mostly consists of the resistance of the crossover coil (on average 0.3 to 0.7 ohm) and the internal resistance of the amp (0.1 to 0.2 ohm). Two metres (6.5 ft) two-wire cable 12AWG has only 0.02 ohm, but thin 20AWG already has 0.13 ohm. Anyway, a good speaker designer should take that into account.
According to my favorite source of knowledge, the German DIY loudspeaker magazine Hobby HiFi, the effect of upgrading the capacitor in the crossover in series with the tweeter is bigger than upgrading the cables. They even say that without upgrading the caps upgrading the cables has no effect. They recommend to invest up to as much money in the whole crossover as all drivers cost together. But I did not verify that myself with a test yet.
I'm going to explain more about this whole topic in my podcast series that I'm scripting at the moment.
I will check out your channel. I'm listening to the frequency response one now. ruclips.net/video/8TZD6LApVpA/видео.html
You make a lot of sense which I appreciate. That's what people need to hear. I feel like I should've mentioned that just because there is a measurable/theoretical difference, it doesn't necessarily mean that there will be an audible difference.
I don't know if people understand how limited our hearing actually is. An oscilloscope can detect things we cannot.
Interesting about using high grade caps on the tweeter, I can understand how that might help a speaker resolve more detail. Some of the caps used in these speakers are dirt cheap. Not even audio grade components with poor tolerances.
Damn wish your channel was in English
@@gufiaito69able : The translation of my previous podcasts to english is in work. New podcasts are also in work, this time both language versions in parallel. The next topics are all the different enclosure types including how to design them. I think that'll be very interesting because it includes the latest knowledge.
I just wanted to add: please be patient. I'm not the fastest content producer because YT is only my 2nd hobby and I have a regular job which takes most of my time.
@@joentell: Thanks a lot for your answer, Joe!
Thanks for all this information, most of which went over my head. However, the crossovers in my Odyssey Lorelei's (German design) are HUGE and high quality, and due to the performance of these speakers, convince me that this is a significant reason why they sound so good.
for interconnects I make my own from low capacitance cable , 2 cores and a foil screen (screen connect to the "earth at one end only) cost me 1GBP per metre , nice quality RCA plugs , total cost about 20GBP . As for speaker cables , nice thick LCOFC copper at 5 GBP per metre ... job done ... nice , well presented video :-)
That segment when you talked about raising the speaker wires off the floor made me lose it!
You know I was joking right?
Hi my friend love your videos you are so informative and you know your stuff my issue with speaker cables and interconnects is this inside the amplifier when they join on circuit boards with cable assuming the cable is the best you can get then on the outside of the amplifier to the speakers you have to get the same grade of cable but you know as well as me inside the amplifiers it is just normal wire so even if you have the most expensive wire to your speakers the chain of quality has already been broken inside the amp regardless of what you put through the speakers it's only works if you get the best quality wire inside the amp and likewise to the speaker then maybe and then it down to speakers and then it's down to the person ears brilliant video there my friend love from the UK
The cables you showed on this video do look pretty though but that's about it me personally just normal stranded 2 core mains cable is quite sufficient paying attention to the connection equallength of speaker wires to that helps with the polarity even if you have a speaker 1 m away from you and another me to 20 m away you still need to do them both at 20 m it really does make a difference save your money and just invest in a roll of 2 core mains cable and wash your ears out lol lol lol awesome video do you do vintage reviews as well I've noticed you've got I think it's a marantz is that the very early attempt at the 1975 quadraphonic setup??
Welding cables look bad ass. My favorite way to impress!
Gentlemen, thickness does matter.
Got me a spool of pure copper wire. Cut just enough length. Use good connectors and I couldn't hear a difference vs. my expensive cables. That was 20 years back. I think same would still be true present day.
@Capt Hook And you have no credible scientific explanation to support your opinion.
What insulator did you use? Was it single or multi strand? What system were you using? I have to confess to some surprise that you could hear no difference between the two arrangements. What led to you buying audiophile cables in the first place?
Cool, I AM going to try that out. That sounds like a very credible idea!
@@barrymiller3385 Audio shops recommend anything and everything. That was how I bought them in the first place. Original set-up Spectral + Krell + Rogers Studio 1. Now, I'm cheap. Chinese Xiang Sheng 728 + Emotiva + Buchardt. G16 stranded wires.
@@davidchan9375 Whilst it is ok for an audio shop to suggest items based on listening to your requirements and using their experience any decent shop should encourage you to listen for yourself before you even consider parting with any cash.
Haha thanks man!
Great vid
I thought I was in my own world thinking that my car drives better after I cleaned it... 😅 . I agree that I think if you’re told something works/sounds better your mind will think that it’s better, Say you go into an AV shop, they demo you a system, speaker A is using basic copper cable priced at £1 per meter. Speaker B is using a high grade ‘lossless audio oxygen free copper’ priced at £20 a meter. Most of the time your mind would trick you into thinking speaker B does sound better. And at the end of the test they show you actually both cables are exactly the same , just one in a fancy looking sheath. 😉
If you clean and wax your car, there will be less friction so your car will use less gas and run faster. That’s what really expensive audio equipment is like. Yes, there’s probably a difference, but it’s so small and marginal that it’s measurement might as well be a standard error.
Sometimes the truth hurts! Lol cables don't do anything, except resist. Lol love your view, just subscribed! Keep up the truth and the awesome reviews.
Thanks Mario!
man listen, i have a basic set up with some old speakers an old amp and a brand new turn table...the cables? lol them things are from 1980 but the sound...damn that sound is awesome...
Well presented. Good you didn't talk about 'sound differences' of interconnects, because that is really Snake Oil! All decent quality cables sound exactly the same! BUT: How about Power cables and Power Conditioners, sometimes costing $ 10.000+. How crazy can Audiophiles be?
I haven't done any testing of power conditioners. I do believe in better cables when it comes to resisting EMI and RFI interference for long runs. For example, I paid for some pricey Mogami XLR cables because my old ones were picking up noise from nearby wires and Wi-Fi. The Mogami was silent. That is something that can be measured and easily perceived. No snakeoil with that sort of stuff.
@@joentell Thanks Joe for your reply. Of course, I agree with what you said.