Was Lightning A Bad Final Fantasy Protagonist?
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- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2024
- I've seen so many different takes on both the Final Fantasy XIII games and Lightning. Some are positive. Some are negative. I decided to throw together a brief rundown of some of my thoughts on both Lightning and her place in the world Final Fantasy XIII's saga. Thus, I present to you a question. Was Lightning a bad Final Fantasy Protagonist?
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I definitely Agree with you on Lightning's character development. To see her from being a solo and arrogant soldier at the beginning of FFXIII, to embracing the assistance and power of her allies in Lightning Returns to defeat Bhunivelze, is what makes her one of my favorite Final Fantasy Characters and FFXIII as a special game to me.
Here, Here!
Meh, still a lame main character
So she realised she sucks?
@MKUltra Survivor Actually, Lightning by the end of the FF13 trilogy is a literal godslayer. You can't say that about Sephiroth. She only gets hard-countered by Caius Ballad (who is absurdly powerful in his own right)...
I like final fantasy 13 it is my favorite
At first I thought she was kinda mean but all the characters were acting poorly in some way in the first game and it made them feel more human too. I really started to like her character in 13-2 and then by the time I played LR she was just my favorite everything. I just can't get enough of her.
I actually personally really love FFXIII and the characters within it. FFXIII is not a perfect game, though I think FFXIII-2 perfected the gameplay pretty damn well, even if I feel it got too convoluted with its story (which I do still enjoy, but we can't deny that it did end up with quite the confusing story). I think people forget that FFXIII is not necessarily a bad game, but rather a game that largely was too ambitious for its own good. It had too many factors working against it and I feel a lot of what they attempted to do with XIII-2 and Lightning Returns was to address those concerns and re-establish ideas and concepts they had to initially cut. And the FNC should have seen more use within the franchise because it was so fascinating and was designed in a way that games could put their own spin on it. XV's lore and story are so deeply entwined with it that they pretty much had to recycle ideas from it anyway, so trying to remove it to begin with was a pointless endeavor, like a lot of the changes to that game ended up being.
As for Lightning herself, I think she's a very compelling protagonist, especially because she does grow as a character and become someone who can root for. And I think part of that is because Lightning is actually a very human protagonist. She's not just a soldier who fights to save the world. She's a person who is trying to deal with the reality of the world she lives in, with real issues such as "how am I going to take care of my sister" or how she's stated to have forced herself to grow up. A lot of people in real life in similar situations do have to grow up fast in order to deal with it. Lightning dealt with it like a child who wants to grow up would. That makes her human, it makes her relatable. She has family she cares about, she has friends she wants to protect, and sure, that's hardly something exclusive to her, but it is how she responds to the reality she lives in that makes her human.
Cloud and Squall were also compelling for this reason, regardless of whether you liked them or not. They all grew up too fast, and without a good foundation for how they should have done so. But, they grew out of it and became better for it. Don't misunderstand, that's not me saying they're the same, because they aren't. These three couldn't be more different than if they tried, purely because of how different their stores are. I think whether you find Lightning a good protagonist can be boiled down to "can you relate to her" or "can you care about her". Some people may not be able to and I think that's perfectly fine. The only issues I tend to have are people misrepresenting Lightning's character, but by and large I do see many more legit criticisms of the character and just as much praise.
To me, Lightning is a good protagonist, but it is also far too easy to see why someone else might disagree with that and say she's a bad one. If nothing else, though, I do agree that she's certainly memorable.
PS, don't worry about the fanboy moment. As someone who has been attempting to learn from his style, I definitely won't judge. ;)
You are quite verbose. I can appreciate that. Good job.
@@installation7 I only believe in trying to make my thoughts known. Sometimes it just comes off as rambling, though. :P
@@NemesisSPI like final fantasy 13 it my favorite final fantasy
Yes because anyone with common sense and decency doesn’t like someone that’s physically abusive and gets ZERO consequences for their actions while simultaneously being a jerk to people even towards those that were nice to her. I find it insulting that people even compare her to Cloud and Squall when they were NEVER this bad in their own games or even spin off non canon titles like kingdom hearts and the dissidia games.
I really like Lightning's character development throughout the trilogy. So I would definitely say she's a great protagonist. What I love the most about her is her undying loyalty to her sister. And I believe it is ultimately Serah that is Lightning's greatest source of motivation. Sisterhood in my opinion, is one of the most re-occuring themes in the trilogy.
In 13, she's initially seen as cold, but we later find out why and that she ultimately has the goal of saving her sister. One thing that differentiates Lightning from Cloud is that she doesn't lack empathy and that she's capable of showing emotion. This is apparent when she starts being a big sister figure to Hope. She sees his desire for revenge as a parallel to herself. She behaves like a big sister to him so that she can atone for her guilt of not believing and being supportive of Serah - which ultimately lead her to become a L'Cie. Furthermore, she starts becoming nicer to Snow as she's able to recognize his commitment to Serah and that he's not all talk. He proved it through his actions. Lightning acknowledges her errors and tries to make things right. She isn't a total bitch like everyone try to make her. She actually changes throughout the game until the end where she ultimately smiles and gives Snow her blessing.
In 13-2 , she doesn't have much of a presence but what I liked is that in her DLC, she purposefully crystalizes herself so that she can preserve Serah's memories - now that's amazing big sis vibes right there.
In Lightning Returns, she once again has that never-ending loyalty to saving her sister. She would stop at nothing to be reunited with Serah. Throughout the game you can see her empathizing with the NPCs when completing their quests. One quest that I remember in particular is Bhakti the robot. She ultimately cares for humanity as a whole as she stops Bhunivelze's plan on creating a new world of humans devoid of memories and emotions. She recognizes that those are what makes people - people! She was even willing to stay behind and become the goddess of chaos - giving up her chance at a new beginning.
I will forever be a Lightning stan.
She starts out as a socially awkward protector. That's why she has an emotional armor in the first place. To protect. Possibly also to protect herself. And to mainly focus on the task at hand. She wants to connect to others from the very start of the story, but simply doesn't know how.
Actually, I recognised a lot of myself in her.
She's my 2nd favorite ff protagonist behind Squall
Maybe she isn't as deep as Cloud or Squall, but she is just a badass with a great development
Here's the thing... I loved the story of 13! Frankly the character buildups felt real. Slow to trust but growing together surely. But the gameplay was a turn-off for me. the play style felt like you were always up to RNG. There was little skill curve to surmount, and the linear nature made it completely possible to get stuck in many situations, forcing you to reset or go to a previous save because you didnt grind enough, which again wouldnt be bad if the game's linear nature didnt push the flow to go forward rather than linger and grind out every fight in each area.
Lightning is actually pretty decent FF protagonist. I admit i was quite harsh on her character back in the day but over the years i've grown fond of her and her character development is pretty good. That being said, my only gripe is with Lightning's lack of a backstory or should i say minimal (aside from her parents dying and her having to take care of her sister, Serah) Despite Serah being her focus, they dont interact much
Final fantasy 13 was DEFINITELY a pretty difficult game to get used to. I had to have a friend of mine actually TEACH me how to use the combat system effectively. But after some time passed it became my absolute favorite go to final fantasy installment out of the entire franchise. I LOVED the way that they told the story. the slow development of the character stories. I absolutely LOVED Lightning and Hope's entire development chapter from start to finish. how hellbent hope is on revenge. Lightning making the connection that she's been acting exactly like hope and making the realization that she was wrong this entire time. I loved how hard that hit to me as a player.
She was ok. The story pacing in FF13 is what pulled me out of it.
After we left cacoon it was boring. I never got bored in a FF game. That was the first one
She's an okay character. Definitely not the best, imo.
To me, the XIII sequels don't seem canon. XIII-2 completely retcons the original game's ending and the universe just continues to get absurd as the plot in that game continues. Let's not forget the face slap that took the form of "to be continued" in that game, something we didn't even get in the original.
Lightning Returns cranks up the absurdity dial of the universe way beyond the meter. Ironically, in my opinion, the characterization and gameplay of both the sequels were MAJOR improvements. And even with the improvement of the plot, everything about Lightning and the story just feels very shoehorned in. But the first game feels like it's a concluded story on its own, and while the sequels expand more on her character, it's to the detriment of erasing any progression in the first to re-tell it.
FFXIII was the game that my brother showed me, and I never regret that day. In my opinion(which I'm entitled to have.) XIII was the best of all FF games, and no one can change my mind. Like VII is so over rated.
Like OMG I have to fight Sephiroth who is an angel man child. 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Or
Fight an actual god of creation.
I'm sorry, but fighting a god sounds cooler. Oh, and on Hard difficulty he has over 1 mill HP. Compared to Sephiroth only at 400K. Like oof-
Also Lightning has a more tragic back story compared to Cloud. Like wasn't Cloud a clone of Sephiroth? Oh no a clone. 😱
Like really bruh. That's so scary compared to Lightning who had to literally force herself to not show any emotions. Both parents dying while she was young, and had to raise Serah on her own. Oh, and became a member of Gaurdian Corps as young as possible.
Like please explain why Cloud is so famous? Honestly I dont see anything to make him famous other than a massive sword, and all talk.
Cloud is like a complete sociopath.
@@saharaofthedeep and Lightning isn't? She almost let Hope die, and let herself go on a suicide mission.
Lightning is more brutal than Cloud.
FF13 was such a roller coaster for me in regards to my opinion of it when it came out. I'd say for me, i think it's decent overall. Not a fan of many of its design choices but okay overall. Nowhere near my favorites in the series, but I do think it's better than FF15. I kinda hate 15.
I never played 13-2 or Lightning Returns because I didnt enjoy 13 enough to want to continue that saga honestly, but in recent years i've been kinda wanting to go back and check them out. Lightning Returns mainly.
Been trying to really give widely maligned games a second look lately instead of taking everyones' word, as there are so many I love that seem to be hated by most.
No Lightning was not a bad Protagonist her games were just really bad that is the problem. If Final Fantasy 13 overall as a game would have been awesome similar to the quality of Final Fantasy 6 to 10 i can guarantee you that people more than likely would see her as one of the best Final Fantasy Protagonists. It honestly mostly really is as simple as that
I just want a ffxiii trilogy remaster on switch or ps5 so I can’t see if xiii is really as bad a people say because I feel like a lot of hate for the game is unnecessary
Technically the games were remastered for Xbox. They have 4k versions of all XIII games available to play. FFXIII actually has a few new assets added to it on this version. If you have or get an Xbox, give it a try sometime. They look pretty good.
@@installation7 oh yeah I already knew they were remastered for Xbox but unfortunately I don’t have an Xbox so I can’t play them
Imagine having a PC like me, and one moment booting up a game from 2019 like Doom Eternal and the very next moment you boot up a game from 2005 or 2008 lol
@@ragingsaviorkami9862 I mean good thing my PC is coming today lol but you can still play tons of old games on consoles. Console is still going to be my main way to play because sometimes Japanese devs just don’t put their games on PC right away
@@Carlama True that, I remember when the original Final Fantasy XV came out, all the trailers and stuff, it was a big deal for me, I fell in love on first sight, but didn't own a PS4 so I had to wait for a couple of years for the Windows Edition. Same thing happened with XIII and for example XII and X hit the PC only recently despite being out for more than 10 years. Same thing with Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth and Hacker's memory, they were out on PC only as a complete edition years after they came out. Still a shit ton of Jrpgs I wanna play that aren't available for PC.
I played through all three XIII games and enjoyed them very much... but still do not love Lightning. I think the plot Deus Ex Machina at the end of the 1st game, the "You did it Sarah!" "No... WE did it!" at the end of XIII-2 and the ending of Lightning Returns made the games feel really mediocre. Square Enix can do better than that. Square is better than that. Lightning deserved better than that, the whole cast did. In the end, I have more feelings for the chocobros of XV because that chopped up story is free of the aforementioned flaws present in some XIII's most important moments.
For me xlll saga means a lot, and 13-2 is my fav one, has great char like noel and caius, but the time travel plot really get the story confusing, just think about it, tell me 1 brand, book, film, game etc.. with time travel plot and its easy to understand without contraddiction.
But aside from this, lightning for sure isnt a bad char, l read ppl even say that she hasnt no development what so ever.. so imagine how much these ppl actually know the game.
Sometimes l wish that lightning story wasnt a final fantasy, not bc it doesnt deserve it, but bc in this way these games avoid a lot of nonsense hate.
It's so unfortunate that FFXIII had such a bad direction and script. For all the faults we can put on the game, the one thing it was great at was giving all of the main 6 full character arcs; yes we wish there was more iconic moments about them but point is each of their stories was completed and over - Lightning finally showing compassion or even humility as she asks Serah to forgive her (in the Japanese dub even using the term Yurushite instead of the usual 'Gomen' or 'Suman' to show she's bowing her head down for once) or simply as she puts her arm around Hope's shoulder.
BUT as much as FFXIII-2 is a fun game to play, plot-wise in my opinion greatly undermines the characters and especially Lightning whose whole arc was about opening up her heart to others and accepting her humanity to... becoming a servant of the Gods and accepting it like nothing then asking her sister to go on an adventure rather than seeking her past companions help (because yes SQ wanted to make a game with Serah as the protagonist but it still makes no sense for Lightning to ask the sister she risked everything for to go on a dangerous quest out of no where).
The fact that we do not see her struggle from being the Lindzei Falcies pet to Etro's guardian that should have been a pivotal point to her character is disappointing.
Lightning Returns is just so bad... like it's 'someone's (Toriyama's) wet dream and they're not even trying to hide it anymore' level of bad to which Lightning is elevated to the literal status of Goddess.
As much as I love the World design of that game (I'd take it everyday over FFXV unnecessarily over-realistic designs), I don't like what they did with none of the characters in that game and the fact that Lightning here sounds deader than death doesn't help either.
Lightning's story went from a soldier who defied everything and everyone that ended up embracing her humanity and fighting for her friends and people to a servant of an asleep God who puts her sister and a young boy on a risky quest to finally again being the puppet of the Gods and this time fully knowing and accepting it just for the sake of finding her sister (that again she put at risk) without giving a damn about humanity (bye bye character development of the first game) before she becomes Jesus at the end...
It's no wonder some people can't stand her as her whole character arcs are all over the place.
Your opinion
What I liked about the earlier Final Fantasy games was how the female protagonists lead by strength while never losing their vulnerable side. It was an excellent balance. Seems like with X-2's Payne, XII's Ash, and XIII's Lightning, the developers went for stoicism, which is more of an American take on how to be a strong female leader. Not a fan of stoic characters in general in RPGs.
I actually loved this game
I truly never understood why many people hated it
I think people struggle with Lightning because they cant conceive of someone of someone being so mentally tough
I think the XIII series is enjoyable, and I would not shun them, but I totally understand people considering them bad. Which category do I fall in? I liked Lightning for simple reasons. The English voice actor, the moody yet arrogant behavior (Cloud and Squall is the best) and even though shallow for the most part she does get as you say some character development that feels earned. I would punch Nomura, but he does do great character design... for the most part. Caius is the second-best FF villain (But I would also place Kefka in the lower tiers). The ending of lightning returns as an origin story for earth is more eye rolling than all the eye rolls in the history of eye rolls.
Great video ;)
I stopped after the first game of XIII, I didn't really like it back then but would like to experience the sequels and would wanna see if i change my mind.
But just a couple of things i didn't like about the first game: The battle system wasn't too much fun for me. Soundtracks were good but it felt like i'm hearing the same Battle OST from start of the game to the end and it gets boring quite easily. I thought characters were interesting but story wasn't too special in my opinion. Graphics were beautiful, it was one of the best looking PS3 games by far.
It was the first FF Game that didn't reach me out of all the ones i played. I still wouldn't say it's a bad game.
FFXIII was my introduction to the series(and the genre as a whole) in my teens. Before that I only watched walkthroughs of AC. I love the original, but I never got along with the sequels so I’m in the “fan service is not canon” camp.
So many FFs out there. There's bound to be something for everyone. I find myself liking the things which usually others find to be off the mark, but I'm weird like that.
can't say she a bad protagonist when i can't recall anything from ff13's story, back then when i was a kid, playing through ff7-8-9 with an english dictionary at my side, barely understand a word yet i remember cloud is a cocky goof, squall is a 14 years old emo kid, Zidane is the best, ff13 with it mind boggling graphics and i still can't remember a thing about lightning character it's so hollow and forgettable.
Lightning farron 💪 ♥️
Toriyama explicitly stated he wanted Lightning to be a female version of Cloud. To me, she's just a worse copy cat of Cloud.
Exactly.
Nothing of value was said in this video. Its just platitudes and general, surface level, opinions about the game. I could get this from an article and waste less time.
YES
HAI
No you can’t treat guys like snow as 💩🚩
How is it possible? Every your video is about my favorite games. Ff13 was my first one, so maybe that's why I love it so much. I understand and fully agree that as a FF, it's bad, really bad, or different.
Thanks for your hard work.
Maybe I'm Psychic??? 🤔
Yes.
Si.
I like final fantasy 13 it is my favorite
hell no
ff13 has the same problem ff8 has...really really lame characters...having said that...Lightning was the only person in that game that felt like a person and for that...i'd have a couple beers with her!
I thought Lighting Look was a little lazy…she looks like Yuna with pink hair and a different outfit
Yes
Don't forget Lightning is woke to lesbian
You obviously love Lightning, but since you need to jump on the bandwagon (like most FF fans), you try way too hard to find faults in which to hate on her.
Lightning is very iconic! But cannot compared her story to the older ff series, her story is forgettable but I like the flashy graphics that I am seeing on those days, those faces are remarkable that I can't believe my eyes!
One of the worst games I've ever played and i have palyed a few of Ubisoft tittles LOL. The porta was hot and all but annoying af and with her rude cool and edgy wannabe.Gave up on FF franchise until XV and 16.
she's pretty tho
The thing is most people like you used Lightning of FFXIII to gain attention and viewers. that is all there is in your video.
Shes great in 13... its 2 and 3 where shes bland and bluck.
the game evokes zero emotions poor acting, poorly narrated story
Lightning is a weak protagonist, not a bad one. Her design at least is redeemable. She has been described as a gender swapped version of Cloud which I think is an absolute crime as Cloud is one of the greatest protagonists in RPG history and is universally loved.
The XIII trilogy's biggest problems are its core gameplay structure and narrative delivery. The ridiculous hallway gameplay pissed a lot of fans off and the auto-battle combat system were bizarre gameplay choices. Additionally, the way that the story was told was complicated even for Final Fantasy veterans and in some cases convoluted particularly in the sequels. If you wanted clarification on anything you had to read the in-game glossary which is always riveting for players.
A large issue I had personally were the sequels. Bringing time travel into XIII-2 and replacing the established main characters for Lightnings dull and personality-less sister was an illogical move. Its like Square Enix wanted this game to fail. And then the third game implemented a constant time restriction mechanic, don't know why Square Enix thought that was a good idea.
Calling Lightnings arc "character development" is a joke. The XIII trilogy recycled the same plot points and character arcs again and again, things that were resolved by the end of the first game were reused in the sequels as if the characters were written to be amnesiacs. Ultimately, they should have nipped XIII in the bud and moved on but instead made two sequels that no one wanted or asked for.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to write a lengthy comment such as this. I can definitely understand your point of view, even if our opinions differ. XIII Saga is flawed but has moments I thoroughly enjoy. For that, I'm a little more lenient on it.
I definitely can agree at least that I also think she comes off pretty lacking in the protagonist department. It doesn't help that she's set as the protag in a game that intentionally never puts too much attention on any one particular character in the cast for too long. This is even the case for the prequel book/novella Episode Zero. So I found it hard to personally connect with her, and I wanted to, really. But I feel as if she just wasn't the most interesting to really justify her as the main character. All in all I think shes alright, but especially if you happen to limit to 13-1, there just isn't much to her imo. But I do often have a soft spot for her if anything
I agree with almost everything you said except for the part on Lightning being redeemable.
I won’t say she’s good
But she does have some nice thighs
She was okay, but XIII's writing and pacing is what soured her for a lot of people, I think.
Yes.
OUI