New Haven Metal Planer Restoration - Part 25: Cutting Oil Grooves in the Machinery Ways
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- In preparation for scraping, I added some lubrication holes and grooves in the ways on the base of the machine. How I went about cutting oil grooves in the ways using a die grinder.
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"And this is the oil tubing I'll be using" loved the engineering rhyming and slang
So glad you patted your dog. They are our best friends.
I would suggest a cam on the bull gear shaft to operate a plunger pump that way it only oils when table is in motion and it will pump even when the gear is running reverse on the opposite stroke. You likely could rob parts from an eagle oil can to make it work. Going to need some catch cans at the ends of the ways to catch the oil runnning off to not make a mess of your floor.
I was thinking about something similar, like squeezing a turkey baster on each stroke, lol. I think your idea of using the pump from an oiler can is a much better idea.
An older Cat injection pump unit ought to work as it won't take much oil to lube it up and the pump plunger can be spun for the volume adjustment BUT you've probably got a pocket full of DEERE pumps, Baily approved of course!
You might be able to use an old fashioned cam driven automotive fuel pump. I can remember seeing a foot operated cutting oil pump someone made using an automotive fuel pump.
Another option would be to gear or chain drive a regular gear type hydraulic pump.
Certainly it would be sensible to have the oil pump only operating when the machine is moving. You have a clear and simple notion of what's best here.
It is immaterial that this machine existed 125 years without ole grooves but this is a Rucker Restoration so it is going to be done "right". No one does it better than Keith. If he made a business out of restoring old machines, he could call it "Rucker's Rusty Relics Restorations".
Life is good when you have a loving shop dog who is there to inspect your progress.
The larger machines from the early 1900’s upto the mid 50’s had the oil eats cut by scraper hands. Hammer and chisel for big stuff and a modified round file . 1/4” dia round file has the forward end ground oblique to create a chisel edge. The handle was flat and palm sized. The experienced hand could cut the ways in minutes by eye . Certain guys had their own patterns others stuck to given designs. I’ve tried and it’s not super hard but takes practice to get it neat. Enjoyed the update Keith . All the best Mat
If you would cut vertical slots every foot or so on the underside of the table it would serve to pump the oil into the ways and carry it along with the bed travel. Again likely to make a mess when it goes off the end but it will keep it well lubed and help prevent wear. I would rather have a messy accurate machine than a clean worn out one. :-)
17:30 Shop supervisor is super stoked about the progress!!
Came off the couch, did he? WOW! Stoked, I'd say!
@chris0tube AMEN!
WHAT ?!?!? You showed a mistake ?!?!?!
And admitted it on RUclips ?!?!?
I'm so proud of you.
Great solution!! The only thing I'd suggest is that you round over the edges of the oil grooves a little. Otherwise they will squeegee the oil right back off. Good luck and thank you sooo much for your hard work and content for our benefit! All of us appreciate it very much!
I would consider the following: Put an oil groove bow tie every foot or so down each way in the base to assure full lubrication regardless of stroke length or location. Then put a flow-limiting valve (in essence a check valve that is lightly spring loaded open but snaps closed when too much oil flow goes through it) on each outlet. The valves prevent flow to each oil groove when it is exposed and wants to flow a lot of oil but allows a little oil flow when that groove is covered by the table.
Thanks for sharing your talents. Love the Dog.
Keith, I see the supervisor came by to do the final inspection. Love your original approach and the
nifty way you used a grinder and guide system to cut the oil grooves into the V ways.
Supervisor? That's a dog, so it's not a supervisor, just an assistant. Now if it was a cat ....
LOL@@johncochran8497
@@dougtaylor6410 I was thinking the same thing. Someone hasn't been watching Brian Bloc...John. :-)
I made a piston oil pump when I was 15. A tube and piston (brass rod) two ball valves (sprung) it pumped well at low speed. Had an identical one filling a steam boiler with water under pressure.
Enjoyed Keith!
ATB, Robin
Thanks Keith. Great video.
ABOM’s shaper rebuild has some interesting lubrication features. He was even able to get felt strings that fit the holes. I have read that pipe cleaners will do.
That's absolutely brilliant to use the Dremel and the wood steady-rest. Turned out really nice. Better than any vintage oil sipes I've ever seen.
The easier it is to properly lubricate the machine, the more likely it will be done regularly.
A proper lubrication performance will protect the hard work put into making the machine like new. You got these points nicely covered so far, cheers Kieth!
What Stuart hardy said multi port steam engine Oiler you can feed every bearing surface
Certainly wouldn’t look out of place period correct 👍😎
Thank you Keith!
Back in the days, the oil grooves were chiseled in with an oil groove chisel. If you can, it's relatively easy.
Southern Yellow Pine guide! perfect
I remember seeing the SPIB stencil on wood from the lumber yard. Haven't see that in years though. Neat memory.
@@stxrynn They are still in business but you are not likely to see their stencil on lumber in the big box stores.
I took a tour of Voith Hydro in York PA about 30 years ago and at that time they were still using wood guides to guide the tracers on their giant 42’ diameter vertical turret lathes. Wood guides work just fine.
Jim Humphrey Pallet wood too, it appears. Really trendy nowadays.
Very simple, but very important job, that was very good idea, Keith!
Those oil grooves came out beautiful.
The grooves you cut reminds me a lot of the grooves we had to cut into the top half of babbit bearings to keep the oil pools in the bottom half of the bearings filled. Hope the grooves do the job for you . Looks good!
I make lubrication system components for a living, if you want a mechanical system you could go with a box lubricator, we sell them primarily for natural gas compressors that are run in a field with no electrical systems but there are many industrial applications as well. you could also run the pump into a divider block that would take that pump and split it as many ways as you like without having to cycle it like a metering system.
Like someone else said, you should probably have the uprights and cross rail in place before scraping. The weight of them will cause the ways to sag between the middle and rear legs and may even cause a hump to appear at the front.
good job and great recovery from broken drill.
a mechanical oil pump driven by the main driveshaft would be a great idea, it can work as soon as the machine is turned on, there is a lot of space underneth the base where the drive shaft is, a worm and gear assembly can drive the pump off of drive shaft (the sfhaft with 2 idler and 2 drive pullys)
and how about the oil drain from ways back to the resorvor,
similar setup can be done with all the babbit bearings, with groves cut in them, oil feed and drain pipes connected for supply and back to resorvor.
p.s. dont mind the spell mistakes.
May I suggest that You use a Trabon air actuated lube pump. Its most used pump on machinery and can be controlled by a simple controller or a mechanical operated pneumatic valve. The oil output is controlled by adjusting the pump piston stroke.
You know, if you wanted a mechanical oiler that was part of the table, it could easily be powered by essentially the same system we used as kids to add "motor" sounds to our bicycles with playing cards. A mechanical pump with a little flapper arm hanging down into the bed-ways, actuated by being moved aside by some number of objects down between the V ways. Perhaps simply the cast ribs that are already there.
Groovy, Keith! You have all sorts of great ideas. Carry on, I"ll be here.
Aloha Keith, As one of my other favorite RUclipsrs says "Wag of approval", I am glad you got that. Looking good. Thanks for sharing and the time you spent to share with us. Lookin fo de nex one!!
In keeping with the year of manufacture of the machine, you could consider McCoy type oilers. Your locomotive may be fitted with them.
Thank you
There is also special tubing and ferrules that can be driven into the casting to hold the oil tubing in place.
I think we used to get it from " Bijure " lubrication systems.
Did you watch the video? He mentioned "Bijure" as the supplier of the parts he is getting.
Nice job, Keith! Can't wait to see that unit in action 😁. Feel like I should give you a thanks. Found some very good information on an old Brown Boggs sheet metal break on your website. I didn't even recognize the site till I said it out loud 🤣. So thank you! And thanks for sharing these planer videos, they really are pretty cool machines 😊.
"It's going to be coming out any minute here" ... anybody else get a flashback to Saturday morning cartoons where the drill emerges from someplace completely unexpected?
Hi Keith,
I used to work on large industrial paper shredders until 2019 and a couple of years back they had manual oilers. They were German made oilers for the HSM shredders. I do believe the manual pump assembly is available on their FA 400.2 shredder. So they are out there , probably expensive.
I enjoy watching your videos and have watched you through several lathe rerubishings
Charlie
Slick work, love the cut guid. Thats a huge way some extra oil will keep that table floating. Plus the scraping real nice.
I can understand your anxiety about cutting those beautiful new ways. Your grooves really turned out nice, even thought they won't be visible soon. They will work well.
I see you based the lubrication analyses on a full stroke. The wipes will actually contact less of the way surface with a much shorter stroke, say an 18" stroke.the length of the "unwiped " surface in the middle will be much greater.
Nice job and looking forward to seeing this machine in action....no rush though! Lol! Thanks Keith.
you sir are a braver man than i after all your time effort and money spent on that machine in the end it will deffo worth it
Looks like a perfect application for a mechanical oiler. They were made by Denzil, I think. Our big Ingersol Rand air compressors were lubed by them. they were belt drive but they also made some that were driven by a ratchet from a back and forth motion. Probably not made any longer. Your idea looks good.
Hiya Keith. Years ago we used to used a scraper to cut oil grooves into ways. That Dremmel cutter would have saved me hours .
Pretty brave cutting into those shiny ways, Keith.
Why? He did a fine job and scraping is yet to be done.
Keith
Mechanical lubricator bet you have plenty, what have fitted to the steam loco a mechanical lube pump that works on a ratchet arm that would work fine and dandy
Yowza! RUclipsr Keith Appleton works with model steam engines. Some of the "models" are fairly hefty and employ mechanical oil pumps. Maybe 1 of the pumps Mr. Appleton works with could be adapted to this task.
Eli Duttman
They are not big enough for this job you would need at least. 7 1/4 g one then maybe not
Two foot g that Keith plays with may be a bit big but it’s a matter of the linkage
You nee one like Dave Richards has one his prime mover at his steam powered workshop
Stuart Hardy Bijur makes a lot of different size mechanical pumps with a cam style pump.
You know what Stuart, I was thinking the same thing when Keith mentioned a lubrication system. But I was thinking of the oiling system from "Big Boy" UP X4014, the oiler on it can lube 16 spots directly, but you put splitters in and it can oil a whole lot more along with being adjustable in oil flow.
As I was watching and listening to your discourse, my thought of a oiler is a mechanical lubricator like is on the steam loco operating off the bull gear. Cams and linkage are adjustable for flow. Even an old pump oil can would work.
Great Job! Those oil groves look really good.
I operate a unit with reciprocating plungers the oiling system is a round oil tank regulated air pressure on the tank. The tank looks more a small air tank with heavy duty fill cap the air push down on the oil and the oil line comes from the bottom. The regulator is set to 40 psi or lower. Needle valve can regulate the oiler points. The older units use an alemite pump but that is pricey. Thanks for sharing
Yes it would be great to develop an old fashioned type mechanical pump system
good looking shop supervisor
Could you use a pump that is actuated by a lever which could be moved by a contact on the bottom of the bed? That way it would not require the memory factor of the operator. Just a thought and of course you could design the set up to suite your needs. Greg
I've made these grooves using a chipping/grooving chisel and die grinder for cleanup.
THANK YOU...for sharing. Watched and very much enjoyed.
Regarding an oil pump, With all the toys at your disposal I suggest that you look at the oil pumps used by model railroader's. Only maybe scale them up. Might even be a good project too video. I can't wait to see the Old Girl in action again. BTW, have you given Her a name yet?
Dremel makes a small router base that could ensure a constant depth of the groove. Just clamp the wooden block and account for the offset.
Thank you for sharing this technique. I like that I can do the same without any fancy tools.
You can easily tell Keith likes making oil grooves better than straight edges.
As regards a bodgers fix for the oil pump, why not use a hydraulic brake master cylinder (size dependant on the oil flow requirement) that has its piston rod operated by a ratchet operated by the bed movement? Low tech, very effective, potentially very reliable, with a bountiful parts supply? You will need a metering block to regulate the oil flow and you could even have a low fluid alarm on the (remote?) reservoir!
Ummm.... daddy.... please pet me!!! Ha ha. Such a cute pup.
In regards to wipers. When the table goes beyond the base ways it will at times be pushing chips. Those chips will be oil ladden and tend to stick on the corner of the base, just under the lip at the end of the way. When the table returns will the back of,the wiper,pick up those chips and grit?
On David Richard's RUclips channel he uses steam cylinder lubricating systems that appear to possibly perform this similar task and would be period correct. I believe they are adjustable in a easy way for the amount of oil flow required also. Not sure about the amount of pressure they can produce versus what would be required for way oil. Just a thought.
17:33 the shop foreman seemed pleased.
I know you don't need any more work but it would make a interesting video to build a piston pump for lubricating the v ways . Maybe driven off bull gear. I'll see you at meet and greet at Florida flywheelers on the 19 the. Chuck Gause
If you install some kind of oiling system, I would suggest some sort of oil catch system at each end of the ways. I'll bet there will be oil dripping from each end (4 places) and you wouldn't want oil running down to the floor. Maybe just an oil catch mat on the floor would work. You'll figure it out, you have so far.
At 17:02 clearly you are not the only one!
Great improvement on an old machine. Are you going to have a lubrication problem if you use the machine only for short strokes?
It should get good oil coverage when the table strokes fully from end to end. When you are using short strokes the ends of the table
will always be a long way from the oil holes.
I was thinking the same thing. An easy solution would be to put additional oil grooves like the ones at the half way point at the 1/4 and 3/4 points on the base.
Keith Appleton has a channel on model steam engines. He uses mechanical oilers of various designs. You might be able to scale up one of those.
Shop dog looks happy too. He approves.
Really nice work. Wonderful. As usual... :)
hmmm, I think there might have been a more expedient solution.... The objective surely is to apply the oil to the table / base interface? The leading and or trailing edge of the table will be oil starvedon any stroke that doesnt go to the maximum stops? How often are you likely to use the whole stroke compared to a 12 or even 24 inch workpiece? Surely the "difficult" plumbing is no more than a flexible hose from the base to the table and a distribution block would resolve? With an oil feed to the extremities of the table, you are assured of oil feeding the the interface regardless of the length of the stroke. which is afer all where the oil is needed.
Thanks for this. How about making a mark in time and create the mechanical oil pump with a 3-D printer? Designed exactly to its needs. You don't even need to make it out of plastic as CNC can do wonders.
The pup really wanted some attention. You need to take some time out and let him or her know you really love him or her... I had two Siberian Huskies that loved to be with me in my shop. They would come in, find a comfortable place where they could see me and lay down and be there until I left the shop. Sadly they have passed on now, but they really enlightened my days...
My suggestion for the oil pump would be to mount it in the center of the base and add a cam in the center of the table. Additional cam lobes could be mounted further along the table to automatically increase the oil delivery to match the increased movement.
What do you mean, "additional cam lobes can be mounted"? How would you connect them all back to the pump? That would require a ton of linkages to transmit the movement from those additional cams all the way back to the pump.
@@xenonram I'm thinking of a pump with a vertical plunger mounted to the base, under the table. A lobe on the underside of the table would depress the plunger as it passed over it. One lobe in the center would be used all the time. Additional lobes spaced maybe 24" away from the center would only encounter the plunger when longer travel is used.
My oil pump idea... vintage car Brake Master Cylinder!
You would have to change the seals because the oil will expand the factory seals (brake fluid is a different composition than oil)
@@ypop417 have you put oil in a master cylinder?
@@vettepicking Yes someone used an empty brake fluid container for oil and I put in my master cylinder
The oil will expand the factory seals? What is the material of the seals that would allow sufficient oil penetration to appreciably change the sealing characteristics? Your story isn't lining up. You filled your master cylinder with oil, but it was empty enough for you to put a lot in, without noticing it's not brake fluid? Then you used it and it worked long enough to know that you need to change the seals? Something is fishy. Oil doesn't appreciably expand seals (about 1-2%, or a few thousandths of an inch, considering the sizes were talking about), and given the highly "corrosive" nature of brake fluid, the seals are likely a lot more robust, and shouldn't be affected by oil.
@@xenonram It Will Ask a mechanic. Early morning not enough light in a rush. Or go to any auto parts store and ask if oil will work in your brake system and why not? They will tell you the same thing oil will destroy the seals.
Don't you love it when a plan comes together?!?!?!
Keiths "It doesn't have to be perfect" is what most of us would call AAA.
Dang! I think I jinxed you. I was wondering if you could drill that small a hole without breaking the bit (like I usually do).Then it happened. ;-(
can you please give me more information about your dermal tool im looking for a hand tool to cut grooves inside some 1 inch bronze bushings yours looks like the perfect tool.thanks
Could link it off the lever that reverses travel instead of hitting the table itself. See a bunch of mechanical lubricators on steam traction engines. Short ratchet throw and would be period correct.
When I first saw the bowtie shape, I thought there would be some concern with the end of the slide crossing it, but I think the whole point of the size of these is that they're entirely in the never-exposed part of the ways, so that means the end of the slide never crosses them, right? I don't think that was directly mentioned, so I wanted to check.
I think that you should have two holes at the top corners of the bow tie
How about a small cam added to one of the shafts with a simple plunger pump. Submerge the pump in the oil sump and use copper tubing from it out to the oiling ports. 4 drain ports to return the oil back to the sump.
How about a 1960s Buick Fuel pump with a cam on a shaft to pump the oil ! Or any Early GM fuel pump !!
I have to ask?! Why would you recommend a 60's Buick fuel pump? Of all the oil pumps and mechanisms available, why does a 60's Buick come to your mind? Just curious!
Keith,
This might be more work than you planed but if you're stuck for a mechanical lubricator then check out You Tube Channel "Keith Appleton". He does model steam engines and has shown various mechanical lubricator that were scaled down, thus you could scale then up for your needs.
a mechanical pump would be more old school, could you make a piston plunger type pump that does one pump for every table stroke? not like you need gallons of oil flow.
That's a kick arse job your doing on her!
There are commercially available mechanical lubrication pumps. For example. www.graco.com/gb/en/products/industrial-lubrication/msl-series-mechanical-pumps.html
The proper South Georgia way to pump it would use a Chevrolet fuel pump it uses a lever to move the pump action. Keep up the good work
I would use a bladder container for the reservoir and have the lubrication forced on the the part that is moving.
Really GROOVY video Kieth. BTW: why not use a Bijour one shot like on a Bridgeport machine?
I think you want an small but constant flow of oil.
It might be possible to use the direction change mechanism to operate a mechanical lubricator.
The chisel that is used to cut oil grooves is called a "Cape" chisel.
Nice job Keith, just wondering, whats your right hand mans name? He looks pretty friendly
OH man that had to hurt :)
Many Model Steam engines use a Rachet-type pump for lubrication which would be ideal for this machine (at some larger scale). Many examples can be seen at Keith Appleton's YT channel.
What about using a large drip oiler. Like the ones used on an antique engine
Love your videos but I am not from the us, so could you possibly when explaining add a bit of decimalconversion. If not I will just keep looking.