Good job,Jonesey👌 Really liked the additional ornamental turning/Guilloche content. As others have said below a homemade 3d printed gear or multiple gears is a very effective method of getting more precise results with peculiar/oddball thread pitches. I believe you would also have gotten away with the 18tpi option on this job as the nuts themselves aren't very long in length hence the thread pitch anomaly would be so small as not to matter in this case seen here.
My Taiwanese 12x24 lathe will cut a 17.5 tpi thread exactly with the included change gears. This lathe has the open style quick-change box that normally cuts 4-112 tpi threads. The box has two sliding levers, 5 positions A-E and 8 positions 1-8. The normal headstock gear train is 40t gear, any intermediate gear, and 40t on the quick-change box. To cut 17.5tpi threads the head stock gear train is 40t , any intermediate gear, and 32t on the quick-change box. The levers are set to B-8. Like cutting any fractional leads on an imperial lathe, do not disengage the half nut. Note that moving the sliding lever from B to C or D you may cut 35tpi and 70tpi threads respectively. Additionally, the lathe will cut 1.75mm metric threads exactly though it is not shown on the settings plate. Gear train is: 30t > 120t/127t compound gear> 46t on the quick-change box. sliding levers are set to B-3 P.s. safety note. Never leave the chuck wrench in the chuck unless your hand is on it. I've worked in shops where you would be fired on the spot for doing that. Hitting the start switch turns the wrench into a deadly boomerang. I saw one flung 50 feet across the shop and through a plate glass window.
I use a 3d printed gear on my lathe, I figure there must have been a combo that would work for 17.5 TPI. Plus, if I crash it, it just breaks that gear and not something irreplaceable or expensive.
Yes,3d printed gears work just fine for these purposes of cutting oddball thread pitches....even gears made from basic PLA filament are robust enough for all fine to medium thread pitches but really coarse thread pitches will place more strain on plastic back gears so perhaps one of the stronger reinforced filaments would be better for coarse thread applications.
With the littlemachineshop change gear calculator (for a UK 2mm pitch lead screw and the change gears mentioned for the lms lathe) you can get 1.451mm pitch. Generally you can get most thread pitches close enough with change gears you already have.
Thanks, the calculator I was using had a different number of change gears (4, I have six in the train) Long story short it started making my brain hurt so I went back to the other lathe in the end.
I got caught out using an Allen key to collect a part I was parting of on the lathe. The Allen key somehow got caught on the internal thread and basically turned in my hand. It didn't draw blood, but was bl00dy painful, really lucky not to have ripped my palm open. I stick to using a small metal rod in the drill chuck in my tailstock now. Really nice little job though. Just wondering if you tried working out a nearer metric thread with your change gears.
I did my electronic lead screw conversion last year, and I can't imagine going back to change gears. Right now it's a bit ironic that I'm driving the lead screw and feed bar through a gearbox where I never change the gears. It's not impossible that someday I'll pull all that and just put a servo where they live. For fine threads, I extended the clough42 ELS code to have another digit of precision in order to support threads that aren't in his work upstream.
If I need to cut an unusual thread such as this one, I will use my CNC mill to thread mill it. The digital leadscrew for your lathe sounds like a cool project. I just picked up a second 9" South Bend lathe, but it is missing all of the change gears. This could be a perfect excuse to make a digital leadscrew.
I'm really enjoy my electronic lead screw mod for my Proxxon PD250. I have a NEMA23 closed loop stepper and a NanoEls H2. Although looking at the source code of the later I'm surprised that it works 🙈 I might upgrade to a ELS 4 Basic
Nice work I have Rocketronics on my lathe best thing I ever did , I can cut any thread metric or imperial, both internal and external, tapers both internal and external even elliptical plus lots more.
Nice job! When you were using the gear train calculator, would it have been possible to make a missing change gear? A 3D print would have worked. You got it close enough though and are keeping history alive and moving. 👍
Yep, I printed a missing gear for my lathe, from PETG and with about a billion perimeters for strength. I forgot to remove it at the end of the job 6 months ago and it hasn't worn out yet!
I think you did a great job of matching the thread as near as you did. Even though we have some thread standards now, with whitworth and metric, there are so many other thread types for specialist industries. It's a real minefield. Cheers Nobby
When fixing hex stock in the mill vise, it is much better practice to clamp across the flats, rather than clamping on the corners as shown here. This is because when clamped on the corners, any disturbance of the part (eg cutting forces) will reduce the dimension of the area held by the vise jaws, and hence make it come loose. This is both very dangerous, and a good way to ruin the part. If clamped across flats, you are instead clamped already on the smallest dimension, and it cannot come loose.
Another option would have been to drill out the threads in the headstock and press in a threaded bushing. The "RUclipsy" solution would have been to make a 5/8 - 17.5 tap on the lathe, using the original screw as a follower pattern. Lots of work, but fun to watch.
Buy a rotary Milling chuck that can be set vertically or horizontality. Great for Milling hex. flats. Can also Mill squares, octagons, pentagons and whatever History throws at you.
Wouldn't be easier to bore the old thread, then press a new standard threaded sleeve to fit a new bolt? Non the less, very well done, informative yet entertaining video, thank you for sharing.
Jonesey long before Whitworth threads were produced as required. I'm wondering how many thread chaser tools are at SoT or members workshops which would have been of benefit? Great work.
I noticed that there are plenty blank spots at threading table on your bigger lathe. There may well be coule settings closer to 17.5dpi but not shown since it's really odd thread pitch. I'm sure there are ways to calculate those, but testing and measuring may be less hassle.
@@joneseymakes Make an excel (or LibreOffice Calc ;-) ) table with gear tooth numbers for all possible combinations of the gears you do have and compare it to tables for your lathe. You will find out there are more pitches than the table on your lathe lists - they do not bother listing odd dimensions and one of those might be close enough to your desired pitch. I did that for my lathe - the math isn't hard. Mind you, your solution works and is good for another 200 years. I am just writing suggestions as you asked (and feeding that RUclips algorithm in the process ;-) ).
@@first_namelast_name4923 Thanks, you're absolutely right, this is something I'd not thought of and I'm interested to see what results I get. I will be doing this.
@@joneseymakes I converted a 9x20 to ball screws, steppers and Linux CNC. If I started over, I'd use closed loop steppers. Z is easy. X can be difficult to fit a ball screw. I'd be happy to help if you pursue this
Just my 5cents: why not 3D print change gears? Surely the life of a 3D printed gear won't give you ages, but maybe enough to create any odd thread you need...
When fixing hex stock in the mill vise, it is much better practice to clamp across the flats, rather than clamping on the corners as shown here. This is because when clamped on the corners, any disturbance of the part (eg cutting forces) will reduce the dimension of the area held by the vise jaws, and hence make it come loose. This is both very dangerous, and a good way to ruin the part. If clamped across flats, you are instead clamped already on the smallest dimension, and it cannot come loose.
![Eminem - Fuel (Shady Edition) feat. Westside Boogie & GRIP [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k1OquBida9s/mqdefault.jpg)
that pitch was close enough, it's just a locking nut, if it fits then it fits and it's good enough, don't be too hard on yourself 🙂
cheers
ben
Cheers Ben, I feel better now!
"I have a cunning plan." And I need to re-watch Black Adder, thanks for the memory flash ;)
😂
Cylindrical watch boxes with that lovely guilloche would sell like hot-cakes to watch collectors, for real Jonesey❤
Great idea! That'd make a great video I think.
Awesome… Good storytelling, love the different camera angles, the image processing... everything is perfect! Hope to see more and more.
Thanks! Much appreciated!
Good job,Jonesey👌 Really liked the additional ornamental turning/Guilloche content.
As others have said below a homemade 3d printed gear or multiple gears is a very effective method of getting more precise results with peculiar/oddball thread pitches.
I believe you would also have gotten away with the 18tpi option on this job as the nuts themselves aren't very long in length hence the thread pitch anomaly would be so small as not to matter in this case seen here.
Thanks! Yes, you're probably right.
'Ride the gear train' calculator worked brilliantly for me. Gives you so many options.
Thanks, I'll check it out.
My Taiwanese 12x24 lathe will cut a 17.5 tpi thread exactly with the included change gears. This lathe has the open style quick-change box that normally cuts 4-112 tpi threads. The box has two sliding levers, 5 positions A-E and 8 positions 1-8. The normal headstock gear train is 40t gear, any intermediate gear, and 40t on the quick-change box.
To cut 17.5tpi threads the head stock gear train is 40t , any intermediate gear, and 32t on the quick-change box. The levers are set to B-8. Like cutting any fractional leads on an imperial lathe, do not disengage the half nut.
Note that moving the sliding lever from B to C or D you may cut 35tpi and 70tpi threads respectively.
Additionally, the lathe will cut 1.75mm metric threads exactly though it is not shown on the settings plate. Gear train is: 30t > 120t/127t compound gear> 46t on the quick-change box. sliding levers are set to B-3
P.s. safety note. Never leave the chuck wrench in the chuck unless your hand is on it. I've worked in shops where you would be fired on the spot for doing that. Hitting the start switch turns the wrench into a deadly boomerang. I saw one flung 50 feet across the shop and through a plate glass window.
Thanks, good advice, and yes, I never intensionally leave the key in the chuck, silly mistake.
I use a 3d printed gear on my lathe, I figure there must have been a combo that would work for 17.5 TPI. Plus, if I crash it, it just breaks that gear and not something irreplaceable or expensive.
Yes,3d printed gears work just fine for these purposes of cutting oddball thread pitches....even gears made from basic PLA filament are robust enough for all fine to medium thread pitches but really coarse thread pitches will place more strain on plastic back gears so perhaps one of the stronger reinforced filaments would be better for coarse thread applications.
Really enjoy your vids!!! Wish you would make more of them.
Thanks! They will be getting more regular in the future. Unfortunately the day job gets in the way!
This is where an electronic leadscrew can help. I can cut any threads on my small lathe with it.
That's the way forward I think!
With the littlemachineshop change gear calculator (for a UK 2mm pitch lead screw and the change gears mentioned for the lms lathe) you can get 1.451mm pitch. Generally you can get most thread pitches close enough with change gears you already have.
Thanks, the calculator I was using had a different number of change gears (4, I have six in the train) Long story short it started making my brain hurt so I went back to the other lathe in the end.
I got caught out using an Allen key to collect a part I was parting of on the lathe. The Allen key somehow got caught on the internal thread and basically turned in my hand. It didn't draw blood, but was bl00dy painful, really lucky not to have ripped my palm open. I stick to using a small metal rod in the drill chuck in my tailstock now.
Really nice little job though. Just wondering if you tried working out a nearer metric thread with your change gears.
Yes, I need a better solution, I like your idea of a rod in the tailstock. 1.5mm was as close as I could get, worked out in the end though.
I did my electronic lead screw conversion last year, and I can't imagine going back to change gears.
Right now it's a bit ironic that I'm driving the lead screw and feed bar through a gearbox where I never change the gears. It's not impossible that someday I'll pull all that and just put a servo where they live.
For fine threads, I extended the clough42 ELS code to have another digit of precision in order to support threads that aren't in his work upstream.
Great work!
Thanks!
Top Job,Sir 👌
Thanks!
If I need to cut an unusual thread such as this one, I will use my CNC mill to thread mill it.
The digital leadscrew for your lathe sounds like a cool project. I just picked up a second 9" South Bend lathe, but it is missing all of the change gears. This could be a perfect excuse to make a digital leadscrew.
I wish I had a CNC mill, that would solve a lot of my problems!
I'm really enjoy my electronic lead screw mod for my Proxxon PD250. I have a NEMA23 closed loop stepper and a NanoEls H2. Although looking at the source code of the later I'm surprised that it works 🙈 I might upgrade to a ELS 4 Basic
Ive got the Nano ELS h4 its great.
Sounds like a nice little project!
I'll check it out, thanks.
Nice work I have Rocketronics on my lathe best thing I ever did , I can cut any thread metric or imperial, both internal and external, tapers both internal and external even elliptical plus lots more.
Sounds awesome. Do you have a link?
Nice bit of handiwork on the fasteners though; makinig big chunky fasteners are one of the perks of investing in the tools.
Thanks man!
Nice job! When you were using the gear train calculator, would it have been possible to make a missing change gear? A 3D print would have worked. You got it close enough though and are keeping history alive and moving. 👍
Didn't think of that, good idea. I'll do that next time.
This is exactly the right solution to get really close or spot on with those oddball pitches👌
Yep, I printed a missing gear for my lathe, from PETG and with about a billion perimeters for strength. I forgot to remove it at the end of the job 6 months ago and it hasn't worn out yet!
@@cooperised Nice!
I think you did a great job of matching the thread as near as you did. Even though we have some thread standards now, with whitworth and metric, there are so many other thread types for specialist industries. It's a real minefield. Cheers Nobby
Thanks Nobby!
When fixing hex stock in the mill vise, it is much better practice to clamp across the flats, rather than clamping on the corners as shown here. This is because when clamped on the corners, any disturbance of the part (eg cutting forces) will reduce the dimension of the area held by the vise jaws, and hence make it come loose. This is both very dangerous, and a good way to ruin the part.
If clamped across flats, you are instead clamped already on the smallest dimension, and it cannot come loose.
Totally agree. Didn’t think to do that at the time!
One ‘em flay rods has gone out askew ont’ treadle!
Let’s see who recognizes that. 😁
Haha, good spot!
Another option would have been to drill out the threads in the headstock and press in a threaded bushing. The "RUclipsy" solution would have been to make a 5/8 - 17.5 tap on the lathe, using the original screw as a follower pattern. Lots of work, but fun to watch.
Good suggestion, thanks!
Grandios 👍 👍 👍
Thanks!
Great video and well filmed too. The vice stop is cool, look really useful, did you design it your self ?
Yes I did design it myself. That’s the subject of the next video.
Buy a rotary Milling chuck that can be set vertically or horizontality. Great for Milling hex. flats. Can also Mill squares, octagons, pentagons and whatever History throws at you.
I should take a look at those, thanks!
Wouldn't be easier to bore the old thread, then press a new standard threaded sleeve to fit a new bolt?
Non the less, very well done, informative yet entertaining video, thank you for sharing.
Yes it would. I wanted to keep the headstock as original as possible though.
Electronic lead screw all the wayyy
Indeed!
Jonesey long before Whitworth threads were produced as required. I'm wondering how many thread chaser tools are at SoT or members workshops which would have been of benefit? Great work.
I know Hotlzappfel thread chasers come up at auction now and again, would be handy to have a set...
I noticed that there are plenty blank spots at threading table on your bigger lathe. There may well be coule settings closer to 17.5dpi but not shown since it's really odd thread pitch. I'm sure there are ways to calculate those, but testing and measuring may be less hassle.
Great suggestion. I will try that. Thanks.
@@joneseymakes Make an excel (or LibreOffice Calc ;-) ) table with gear tooth numbers for all possible combinations of the gears you do have and compare it to tables for your lathe. You will find out there are more pitches than the table on your lathe lists - they do not bother listing odd dimensions and one of those might be close enough to your desired pitch. I did that for my lathe - the math isn't hard. Mind you, your solution works and is good for another 200 years. I am just writing suggestions as you asked (and feeding that RUclips algorithm in the process ;-) ).
@@first_namelast_name4923 Thanks, you're absolutely right, this is something I'd not thought of and I'm interested to see what results I get. I will be doing this.
Better plan would be converting one of the lathes to CNC which would have no problem with that pitch.
Good point, maybe I'll look at doing that.
@@joneseymakes I converted a 9x20 to ball screws, steppers and Linux CNC. If I started over, I'd use closed loop steppers. Z is easy. X can be difficult to fit a ball screw. I'd be happy to help if you pursue this
Clough42 electronic leadscrew project?
This is the best way ahead for sure👍
Indeed! I need to re-watch his series.
Bet you a dollar that's 1.5mm pitch.
Could also be caused by one of those many different national "non-imperial" inches that were around at the time.
👍👍😎👍👍
No chance of finding a suitable tap?
Without knowing who made this it’s difficult. If they do exist they’d be as rare as hens teeth. I certainly don’t own one!
❤🥜
Just my 5cents: why not 3D print change gears? Surely the life of a 3D printed gear won't give you ages, but maybe enough to create any odd thread you need...
Yes, something to think about for next time, thanks.
Hex nuts 200 years ago? Nope
Всё чëтко. 👍
Спасибо!
When fixing hex stock in the mill vise, it is much better practice to clamp across the flats, rather than clamping on the corners as shown here. This is because when clamped on the corners, any disturbance of the part (eg cutting forces) will reduce the dimension of the area held by the vise jaws, and hence make it come loose. This is both very dangerous, and a good way to ruin the part.
If clamped across flats, you are instead clamped already on the smallest dimension, and it cannot come loose.
Totally agree, didn’t think of it at the time unfortunately!