Videos and commentary are spectacular. As an admitted fan, I sometimes have difficulty separating my emotions from reality. But what you do, is objectively look at the big picture from a consumer perspective. I will never stop watching your videos, and I'm very appreciative of what you've done, and I think it's making me smarter.❤
When people bought FSD they never got Full Self Driving. Instead they (including myself) became unpaid test pilots monitored by Tesla , giving them their valuable data. And we had to pay thousands of dollars for the privilege. So yes, I agree that FSD should be transferable if we buy a new Tesla because the promise of FSD has not yet been fulfilled. When we sell our car, the resale value of incomplete FSD is minimal if not zero.
@@Robert...Schreythey sold you a finished one to pay for the next one. They didn’t sell you prototype iPhones in 2005. They sold you iPods that worked.
You bought a beta software for early access basically. No smart person would but fsd thinking its gonna be full self driving. Disclaimers were written all over. You also take the bet that FSD would be more valuable in the future than it is today. If it worked sooner than expected you would have make money of your purchase, would you then give back the difference to Tesla?
@@FSDCanadaMtlwhat are you even talking about……. It was promised as a robotaxi ready solution 4 years ago………. And even it became that…. Anybody who took the gamble and bought it first before it was even done should get it for life. No questions asked. The part about ruining the sales cycle is laughable. That guy won’t have a sales cycle if the FSD doesn’t transfer. It sells more cars to let it transfer.
Exactly, and then if you have two (or more) cars you can choose which to use it on at a given time. They acknowledge the barrier to buying a car is affordability, the same goes for FSD, a household might only be able to afford one copy. Subs are not available everywhere either but would also be an additional cost for additional vehicles.
The fact is, whether you buy it for the car or for the account they will average out to the same number of sales. People who want it will buy it, people who don't won't. And on the account gives you incentive to buy another Tesla. And the fact in some regions you can subscribe, that must essentially be on the account already, so wouldn't seem like a big challenge to program it that way.
If I ran Tesla: * Anyone who bought EAP/FSD before 2021 gets free FSD for life. "Thanks for waiting" * Anyone who bought/transferred EAP/FSD before it can earn money as a Robotaxi should be able to transfer to a new Tesla. "Thanks for Beta testing" * Anyone who buys FSD after their Tesla can earn money as a Robotaxi should get discount on future FSD purchases based on how much money your vehicle earns for Tesla as a Robotaxi. "Thanks for earning Tesla a portion of the fares" "Free FSD for life" is maybe not the fairest for Tesla. I agree FSD lifetime would be a nice "thank you" for those who bought Enhanced AutoPilot (EAP) or FSD (which it became known as later) early, like before 2021. FSD ("AutoPilot on City Streets") was not available to public beta testers (that had a high enough "safety score") prior to 2021. I believe EAD/FSD was first available to purchase in 2017 - as a promise that it would be "feature complete" soon. That means many people purchased EAP/FSD and then waited over 4 years before the feature they bought was actually available for them to use - and it was a pretty crude/unsafe/limited version for at least a year. Can you imagine paying $8k (or more) for a feature that you never got to use because you sold your Tesla or your lease ended prior to getting access to the very rough, early release of that feature? ...Then having to buy it again in hopes of being able to use it and avoid the promised FSD price hikes? I sure hope those early adopters got some big trade-in value for this unrealized/underlievered feature. Aside from the lifetime for early loyalty - Tesla should transfer FSD for free until you actually enroll your Tesla as a Robotaxi and earn money off of it. At that point FSD will likely be more expensive to purchase, but again, a one time free transfer would be a nice "thank you" for supporting FSD Beta/Supervised (and buying another Tesla). From this point on no more fully free transfers. Each time you trade-in your Tesla that has FSD (not subscription), you should get a free FSD transfer to your new vehicle *if* you bought any form of FSD that requires supervision. Anyone that buys a Tesla with FSD that is able to perform as a Robotaxi, then they should get discounts based on usage. If the owner is earning money from Robotaxi fares, Tesla is earning a percentage as well; so a portion of the income Tesla gets from the fares should count toward your FSD discount on your next Tesla vehicle purchase. If you're making money for Tesla, why discourage you from upgrading to a new Tesla? Why discourage you from continuing to earn money for Tesla as a Robotaxiowner. Arguably however, the portion of the fares you earn is enough incentive for purchasing FSD at full price again on the next vehicle. A counter to this argument: this would encourage owners to enroll in the Robotaxi fleet to earn the future FSD purchase discount... as opposed to someone operating the vehicle under Uber/Lyft and using FSD, while not enrolled as a Robotaxi (like Kaz currently does on CYBRLFT ruclips.net/channel/UCRui2emHM2TPUwkE8D2H6aw). Perhaps one's Robotaxi owner rating should also be a factor in the discount for FSD on a new vehicle purchase/lease - to further encourage good vehicle cleanliness/maintenance/customer service. Don't get me wrong, even in it's past and current state I've enjoyed using and Beta testing FSD. I've gotten a lot of enjoyment, fun, and value out of FSD and I plan to get even more from it ... since I'm not in a hurry to buy a new Tesla. Is it worth the money I paid for it? Currently that is debatable to me. If I paid half what I did, I'd say it is well worth it. If I can use it as a Robotaxi before I sell/scrap it, then it will likely be worth the full price I paid for it. Would I trade in my Tesla in the future to buy a new one and pay the full price for FSD? My logical brain says "no". I'd likely go with the monthly subscription, and put the difference into TSLA stock. I do think that free FSD transfer is a demand lever that Tesla should use to boost vehicle sales when needed.
Spot on about wanting the braking to be smoother. Currently 12.3.6 brakes too soon sometimes and too late other times. FSD normally over-accelerates from stop signs on rural and suburban roads. In town in heavy traffic the acceleration from stop is about right, but you don't need that kind of acceleration when you're the only car on the road.
This might be genius. You should have been in the crowd at the shareholder meeting asking that question! I m gonna try to bring it up in the Tesla community.
I think one of their "issues" is that they have so far only been able to account for some of FSDs buyers cost as profit, while they give all of subscribers as profit. Likely they would just be 15k for transferable or subscribing.
People will abuse it, as it will lead to life time FSD. Not very good if your revenue model is based on a reaccuring revenue stream. Say it was transferrable, is there a limit? If not, then everyone would get the one time payment and never need to pay for FSD again, even when buying cars. Remember cars in the future will not have the margins they have today, the long term revenue will come from software and subscriptions like FSD.
@@ajaylal5892Let’s make it simple. I have bought 2 Teslas so far and I am also a shareholder. If Tesla makes the FSD that I paid for 3 years ago transferable, my next car will be a Tesla. If not, I will buy some other brand. Tesla will not get any more revenue from me, whether in form of FSD subscription or new car sale. It seems like a no brainer for them.
@@ajaylal5892 When you buying a new Tesla, you're still paying for the car and the hardware and for the software, and prices always increase overtime. Moreover, have I ever received what I was promised six years ago? That the car will "drive itself from LA to NY to pick me up". Is it truly self-driving? So, I paid for a promise that hasn't been fully delivered, and now I can't even transfer that promise to a newer car? Try to trade your Tesla to Tesla, they give you ZERO for the FSD, as any other retailers. Private party also won't pay much over for it. So, we, the early adopters, got a raw deal. Can't really transfer, have to lose it and re-purchase it again, and still, no guarantee that it will ever be even level III. Perhaps, once it's fully functional (level III +), it should be tied to the car, and not transferable. But currently, it is not even close.
@@ajaylal5892 Eventually FSD will only be subscriptions based like any other software. You can no longer purchase MS Office or Adobe full license products today, everything will be subscription based.
If the FSD transfer is really that complicated (and it may be, not everything in accounting makes sense), then charge what it costs to do the transfer, whether it is $2000 or $50, to recoup the admin cost.
Totally agree with your assessment of FSD transferability. Long time owner and have purchased FSD for three of our Tesla's, and as a long time early adopter Tesla should make this a permanent action to insure fidelity and loyalty to the company. Not really fair to be dinged every vehicle purchase for FSD previously purchased. Also agree with your assessment of using regenerative braking rather than friction braking to slow the car. Uncomfortable when car has to use excessive friction braking to slow down for stop lights, etc. Excellent summary of issues that need to be fixed for 12.4.2 release.
Excellent breakdown! I completely agree that Tesla should make FSD transferable to new vehicles-it's just a software toggle after all. Specifically, improving the startup reliability, fixing lane centering issues, reducing aggressive braking, and eliminating phantom slowdowns would make a world of difference.
FSD definitely should be transferred for sure permanently. I wasn’t ready to commit to a new Tesla previously but when I’m in the market that may be the difference between me staying or leaving. For example, I have a cybertruck reserved, but I also know I’m not paying for FSD on that truck so if I can’t transfer from my model 3 I’d most likely keep the 3 for FSD and get a Rivian. 🤷🏽♂️
On FSD transfer to a new vehicle. I completely agree with you. it should be what common Sense dictates, it should be transferable to a new vehicle permanently. It not only promotes its mass acceptance but it promotes the purchase of new vehicles. it's a win-win situation for Tesla and the consumer.
My thoughts on transfer. If I sell my car, the next owner basically gets FSD for free. Then, either I have to buy it again (punishing me for buying an additional Tesla) or, more likely, I decide not to buy FSD. The other option is that I wait it out for another free transfer opportunity. If transfer remains free I am more likely to sell and upgrade to another Tesla sooner. Their reasoning isn’t really logical.
If you have two cars the fsd on the second car should be half price. This would encourage multiple Tesla purchases among couples /families / businesses/ etc.
Yes, transferable and the reason for me to say this that I have own FSD for three years now in Sweden and haven’t been able to use FSD the same way as the state.😊
I agree that if I purchase fsd when I bought my first car I should be able to transfer that software because it have been there for the training and the ups and downs Cheers Arnold Evernden
Your videos are always well thought out and rational. You are my go-to for new updates. I do have a comment about the FSD transfer and Elon's reply. If the business plan for Tesla includes a new FSD purchase with a new vehicle purchase, the transfer greatly impacts the bottom line. Although the price has changed recently, the $12,000 price for purchase it was not too long ago is 10% of a model S Plaid and 20 to 25% of a model 3 cost. That makes a big difference to investors and the stock price. I understand his reluctance to commit to a lifetime transfer.
I agree with being able to transfer if you bought FSD, it’s expensive and for us customers that had faith in Elon and Tesla, we should be rewarded. Maybe you get one free transfer and subsequent transfers can be at a really good discount, like 50%.
I love the review. I'm not sure I've heard you ever be as outspoken on any topic. But I agree with your assessment of the FSD software license. Great comments overall on the overall performance of the vehicle. Another Tesla evaluator said he heard there was a wider release planned for today. We'll see.
Glad you "AGAIN" mentioned the Friction Braking 👍🏾 FSD is a fantastic feature,...but FSD appears to use Friction Braking as it's primary way to slow down or stop the car; that wears out the brake discs and pads. I am hoping Tesla will redesign the braking alogorithm to use more regen & less friction.
The way I see the FSD transfer issue is No1 Tesla wants the revenue from you buying it again with your next car. Elon said this. No2 any other brand of car you buy with XYZ features goes with that car when you sell it. Why should Tesla be any different? No3 you purchased FSD knowing it was not transferable. No4 When you sell the car with FSD it would increase the desirability of that car and increase the resale value. As a Tesla investor I think they have made the right and fair decision. I think your thought process is clouded as it is a very close to home issue to you.
I have not used Auto for the reason you have described. I set my profile at Chill with speed set to the speed limit. Sometimes the speed limit is read at a higher speed than posted and with Auto you cannot throttle back the speed without disengaging FSD. I live in a neighborhood with a 25 MPH speed limit and a dedicated golf cart lane, so I don't want the car to exceed the speed limit. Another great video and content.
Definitely think FSD transfer should be on going for the time being until FSD is in a better state. Honestly I am holding off on upgrading till this transfer goes live.
100% need to allow transferability- this is not remotely difficult to do. Have it follow the account like the profiles for seats and this is simple. It’s getting to the point where they will need to start offering refunds or allowing free unlimited universal transfers to any car they buy or drive. There is no technical reason this shouldn’t happen.
I am watching all the way from the Republic of South Africa. I like the videos, and that you are contributing to FSD (Supervised) being unsupervised and that it will benefit humankind, whereby we stop talking about accidents on the road. I can’t wait for that moment in time.🎉👍🏾😎🚶🏾Sharpido
In some jurisdictions, options are not allowed to be removed from vehicle after purchase. Once FSD is on a vehicle, it stays there for the life of the vehicle. This is a potential liability for the manufacturer. The fix would be to sell us FSD on our app; not on our car. Now if our cell phone is in a Tesla, that car has FSD. Also, selling the software license without requiring the purchase of a vehicle would be quite interesting.
I’m glad I had open eyes when I bought my car, knowing Tesla sales and service experience is more like dealing with a machine and less like hand-holding huggy customer service. While I haven’t had any big customer service issues, I would prefer some sort of loyalty program that was a bit more personable and allowed FSD transfer. Maybe bundle some service in with warranty extensions or something? No FSD transfer will delay me from buying another Tesla
I agree that FSD should be transferable at present time but once it becomes fully autonomous it should not be transferable. This is because in the future, their main revenue will come from selling FSD. This is why Elon is hesitant to make transferring FSD permanent. As a shareholder, I agree with this policy.
FSD: Suggest offering 3 options: 1) Monthly as little or as much as wanted. 2) Car lifetime. 3) Owner lifetime Once, my Sirius satellite had a lifetime option after the new-car subscription came to an end. I chose car lifetime at least as long as the car lasted for us. The radio unit died after 16 years. Could get it repaired… 🤔 Not with it. Getting a lot of rear end rust in Toronto. Lotsa love to all ❤❤❤
FSD should be tied to your account not your car. Maybe they can have a transfer fee but it should be transferable to any car you buy new or used. They should just do what Apple does, have a limited number of transfers. Maybe three per purchase. Also, those who have a legacy Tesla should get a free transfer since we don’t get all the newest updates even though we were promised we would.
I upgraded from my 3 to a y and Tesla would not even give me any trade in value. This makes no sense to me. I paid for it in full and yet it is treated as a lease at the end of the day. As to improving vs 12, which is amazing btw, I would suggest eliminating left turns unless protected. This would eliminate not only a danger, but also help the regulatory process. Elon is big on deleting unnecessary steps in any process this would fall in line with that philosophy. Great videos, keep up the good work, tnx!
As a 2020 M3LR owner who bought FSD for $6K in 2020, I'd absolutely be more likely to buy another Tesla SOONER if I could roll my subscription over. One of my reasons for keeping my car is I feel like I want to get my money's worth. Probably wouldn't pay $8K or $99/mo if I bought another, unless I keep my car a very long time (and by that time FSD may be higher).
For starters, I agree (in theory). However, I purchased a used 2022 MY for the sensors. It came with FSD. So … imo it stays with the car and not the person?
So I don’t know how all this is gonna work out, but I certainly agree that something has to be done, because as you said, every Tesla car has the capable of full self driving, and all it takes is to toggle it on or of, so I don’t understand Elon’s response about this question of lifetime transferability of FSD from one Tesla vehicle to another. So full disclosure, I traded in my 2018 model 3, and I transferred FSD to my new 2024 Model S, and I can tell you that was a big reason why I made the purchase, and if everything continues on track, and Tesla continues to improve, and we get to the point where we’re at level 3 or 4, where we no longer have to pay attention to the road, and of course the car has to be able to avoid the edge cases, to be able to steer around, potholes, missing, manhole covers, and other road hazards, because if the car becomes fully autonomous, why in the world would anyone wanna buy a car? Moreover, why would Tesla even sell you a car, because they can make a lot more profit by just renting out or leasing out their cars. Cheers 🥂
I do agree that the auto speed should be fixed. However, going 5 over in our neighborhood is not appropriate. 5 over on the perimeter access road is appropriate. So, there can’t be one simple rule. Until, FSD auto speed can be trained, more control should be given to the driver. Right now, auto speed will accelerate up to 48 mph in a 30 zone. The only way to stop it is to disengage. I think learning ends when FSD is disengaged. Keep your videos going on fixing FSD. We all want it to work. Thanks.
I think with my suggestion if you don't set an offset then it will operate to the limit at max. In the example I used it was simply using a 5mph offset set by the owner as an example or for areas where people commonly drive 5-10mph over.
100%Spot on ,I hope Elon takes note ,I got FSD in 2020 but in UK I have almost nothing on my 2019 100d X ,in fact they took away auto lane change on high ways.
I hope this feedback reaches Tesla/Musk that this is a fundamental thing. You know this just makes SENSE. You buy it, it’s yours. $6000 for non-transferable, $15k for life, all existing accounts, life.
Another MAJOR issue for me is intersection (stop sign and stop light) behavior. FSD slows way too soon on approach and stops way too far behind vehicles in front as well as behind stop lines. They need to tighten follow/stop distance, stop AT stop lines, and slow more smoothly and later for lights and signs. We know it's safe enough now to do so...
Useful info - thanks Change of subject… I live in S Florida and there are occasions when the rain is simply overwhelming. I have a Y w hw4, so my question is: radar, I believe would increase safety on those occasions. Any thoughts/ideas? 😅
Yes radar is still useful imo. It May provide noise in most situations but until Tesla implements solutions to keep the cameras clear they are still very useful especially for parking. But let's see what HW5 has to bring.
I agree totally with transfer of FSD, I'd like to buy a new S Plaid this year to replace the 21 I have. The aggressive high speed driving in my area (Phila. Suburbs) is completely out of control not allowing me to use FSD in heavy traffic at all, It's just not fast enough for cars swerving in and out of lanes, dangerously slowing down. Thank you so muchfor wbat you are doing, I too feel Tesla customer service is very poorly structured and MUST recognize custome royalty. 🎉.
the thing is because he wants people to switch to the subscription model. that's the part you didn't realize. it's more beneficial to have people pay $100 a month rather than a flat fee.
Elon's answer about FSD transfer was just bullshit. They have no problem removing it from every car that is returned to them before they sell it again. Like you said, make a toggle in the account so it doesn't matter what car they get in, hell even a rental could work
It should be transferable. It’s software that can be easily move from one car to another. Elon just making it sound like it’s hard to do because he wants people to buy it over and over.
I hear you, its quite fustrating to be stuck with an old car with FSD and not get to enjoy it in the new car unless you pay for it again at a possibly higher price. My thoughts are that FSD might cease to be purchased outright once they ramp their robotaxi. Also the price might be doubled once it gets to a point of revenue generation via autonomy. Hence the mention that sales cycle is complicated... if they transfer it for free, the revenue is zero instead of double.
The acceleration is one on my bigger complaints in 12.3 on my Model S. When it's wet out, I can actually feel the tires break loose just a bit while starting out.
I won't speculate on the sales complexity. For shareholders, we want to see revenue. So, transferring this kind of software from car to car, hurts that. What I think is that it's just far too expensive of an add-on. They should make it a couple thousand dollars cheaper so that it's not such a big deal when you lose it when you decide to go up to the newer tesla. I think $5000 for FSD is fair.
I am totally with you on the FSD being a piece of software that you own and can be transferred from car to car just like I do for my PCs. It wouldn't be such a huge deal if it was actually valued when I go to sell my car but it is not. Its not even an option on kbb.
5:26 I want to be able to bias the drive path within the lane, to give more room to pedestrians or suspect vehicles or to avoid potholes and rough pavement or to prepare to turn at a very tight corner without curbing the wheel or dropping a wheel in a ditch.
I agree! The right scroll wheel should have left/right movement to control lane bias like the up/down controls speed. My 12.3.6 hugs the centerline causing multiple interventions.
Do you mean the turning too much left (not right)? I remember 12.3.1 was too close to curb/right which was too tight. I like 12.3.6 and closer to the left.
100% FSD needs to be transferrable, we paid 10k for an unfinished product, it's the least they could do. Tie it to our profile, so any Tesla we get in has FSD. I'm waiting for Juniper refresh and FSD to transfer, but I'll consider getting a new Y now if FSD is transferrable, just for a newer car, HW4, adaptive headlights, the AMD chip and softer suspension.
Regarding FSD transfer. For those who purchased FSD, the transfer should be allowed whenever you buy a new car, at least until the time when autonomy is solved. Prior to that, we haven't gotten what we paid for and should not have to give it up. I have a 2019 Model X with FSD, but the timing isn't right for me to get a new Model X. I am waiting for the price to be such that I can get the exterior and interior color of my choice and still be under the $80K tax credit cap.
When FSD is transferable for "one more" quarter, must delivery occur before the end of the quarter, or must the car simply be ordered within the quarter? I hope it's the latter as I have no control over Tesla's delivery schedule.
I'm not an owner of the FSD at the moment. The main reason I'm not is because of the fear of losing it. What if I just buy a new Tesla and one week later the car is totaled. I would buy it but there are just too many ways to lose it. How many people would buy Tesla stock through TD Ameritrade if they couldn't transfer it to Fidelity or somewhere else at a later time if they need to?
I agree re: permanent FSD transferability. This is especially true for those who have their cars totaled. They shouldn’t have to buy it again for the replacement car.
Another point is that those of us who literally risked our lives beta testing the very early super buggy builds and provided valuable data to Tesla should get free lifetime FSD transfers.
I will not buy another Tesla unless I can transfer the software to a new car. It's just too expensive for us to do with every purchase. Beta purchasers should be compensated.
The sales cycle complication is the value of FSD is supposed to be in the trade-in value of the used car. So transferring FSD should reduce the value of the trade-in.
Sadly it doesn't, Tesla doesn't value the software the way people expect. It's software so it's not going to degrade but rather become more valuable over time so the trade in value should be the full value of what you paid or current market value and they sadly don't recognize either.
@@BlackTesla I never understood why they chose to sell FSD over a subscription model. A subscription model also lets you recognize the revenue sooner. Moreover, the value of FSD should not go up over time because your uptake will decline as you jack up the price. Tesla should maximize the uptake of FSD in order to make the most money off of fleet FSD and the revenue split.
If it has been flawless (I mean, in general working in expectable way all the time on all occasions) I would pay it again when I update my car. But it has been inconsistent and unpredictable version by version, for extended period of time, it is becoming harder for me to buy it again.
The only reason I'm not upgrading to a new Tesla is lack of FSD transfer. And to be fair, many of us still on the hardware 3 and may not have all the same options/capabilities of hw4 FSD, and there is no hardware upgrade either. The only option is to get latest Tesla. I even called their sales dept, they refused any transfer unless Tesla makes it available again. Last time they did it the constraints were excessive, you had to take a delivery before a specific date only weeks away, or you lose the transfer and for some reason lose the FSD on your original car. That's sounded like a theft, so I didn't pull the trigger. Maybe at the end of Q3?
Mixed feelings on FSD status. I think I lean towards the software aspect of FSD being something that I purchase or lease for personal use and should be available to me in any Tesla I drive. Reasonable allowances for allowing access to FSD for other drivers using a car I own with reasonable restrictions on multiple simultaneous uses of my 'copy'.
Good content from BT! But the title should be "What to Fix" instead of "How to Fix" ... big difference. Tesla engineers are obviously struggling with "how to fix" some of these issues, as tuning AI models is new territory for everyone. Most of us don't know exactly how they are handling the refinement of these models. Reinforcement learning in some form or another, most likely. It's not the same as finding the right spot in the code to add a conditional statement to make a change... that's how it was done in the 300k LOC that Tesla dumped. Different story now... more analogous to behavioral modification.
At least the honesty is out now about FSD being used as a crutch to prop up sales. Just a shame that people were suckered into this, thinking robotaxi was right around the corner. And before the people come in saying "robotaxi was never in the fine print of any sales", I would like to remind you of an expression that humans around the world have had to keep ignoring as companies continue to abuse customers with 0 punishment: "There is the letter of the law, and then there is the spirit of the law". You can't tell me with a straight face that Tesla customers have been treated fairly when it comes to FSD.
Even in 12.3.6 there should be a way to set the lane centering bias. How do you get these things to park in your driveway and leave your driveway ? Seems like it leave it up to you at the end of the drive . I am on 12.3.6 still . I would like to have a favorite stored routes feature rather than what google maps decides is the way to go. Speed sign reading is also and issue.
FSD is not transferable because it will end up being a 1 time purchase, so there is less revenue on the next purchase. With that said, they should offer a commercial(robotaxi) license personal use license at a lower price. Commercial license will be for xx amount of years regardless of the vehicle using it, and the personal use license would be for a single car. Either option can be a full purchase or monthly subscription... BUT since FSD is not feature complete, it should be fully transferable until then. My 2 cents.
I’ve been a firm believer that FSD purchase should be tied to your Tesla account. If you rent a tesla from Hertz, once the tesla is added to your profile, it should allow the use of FSD. If I borrow my brother’s Tesla, it connects to my phone, it automatically allows the use of FSD. I think it would improve the take rate substantially. When I tell people it’s 12k, they go “JESUS, no way would I pay 12k for that…”
Good video. I’m kind of shocked that this is actually happening. If you buy FSD on the car , you should be able to sell it with the car and realize the value, if you want. Or, you should be able to take it with you for your next Tesla or transfer it to someone else. The thing is , they have a monopoly on the tech so they are exploiting that for now. I guess they think feel like they spent a lot of money developing it and want to see some return. I think they will get more generous once the tech is more mature and they are pumping out robo taxis
I see that speed is a problem. The sentiment changes from state to state or even town to town. Maybe if the Chill setting sets speed to max speed limit. Average let's the driver set speed on highway and Assertive let the driver set the urban or highway speed. Maybe an automatic setup as well.
As a retired person anything to reduce the cost of FSD is welcome. If I owned a Tesla with FSD and bought a second one would I have the option of transferring FSD to the new Tesla and disabled on the old one? I wish Musk would use some of his "Race to Mars" money and get this in the hands of ALL Tesla owners.
I don’t think FSD is worth it right now, I only use the highway part. The city street is just not ready yet, also the auto offset is really an issue right now, goes way too fast or too slow like you mentioned was the main reason I don’t use it just causes others to be frustrated and you know how us NJ people are Also on the point of customer loyalty , it’s crazy I had an appointment scheduled a month out and the center has not responded to any of my messages in the app. Really having a hard time trying to stay loyal to this brand sometimes the service has gone downhill vastly
Great video as always! I also think that the full FSD purchase should be transferable, but I do see both sides of the coin. Training these models is super expensive, and they no doubt want to recoup some of those costs even when car sales stagnate because existing owners are still getting updates. One solution could be to charge a small amount for existing owners to upgrade to each major FSD version (e.g. 12.x, 13.x, etc.). To do that, though, they will need to decouple the FSD software updates from the rest of the software on the car. Very rarely does one-time purchased software get free updates for life. Usually, you get updates for the current major version, but must pay for the next one, such as operating systems, office suite software, etc.
The problem is promises were made about the endpoint of the software being full driverless robotaxi. Not our problem they couldn’t deliver. Until it does EXACTLY what was advertised, updates should be free. Their inability to hold their end of the deal is their problem, not customers.
I don't believe there are free updates but rather built-in costs when you buy the car that's prepaid for updates. They need to train the models but they need data from people's cars to help train them, so Tesla owners are paying thousands of dollars to use the software while simultaneously feeding "free data" since data collection is also happening in shadow mode to Tesla in return. I think allowing transfers is a way to keep the balance.
It would be cool if Tesla gave a one-time transfer for any Tesla but I can see them phasing out the buyout fee and transitioning to a subscription model. They’re probably taking the same approach with Optimus, renting before owning.
They are not the only game it town, btw. And they won't have the monopoly on level iii+, if they ever get there. I'm stuck with my current FSD, and if they won't take a transfer, in the next two years someone will come up with something similar to FSD and cheaper, to compete with Tesla. I'll switch back to gas if this is what it takes. So much for their "transition world to whatever" slogan if they are pushing out their most loyal customers who actually paid for this stuff and have been testing for years (I'm an FSD beta tester for the record). I hope they still have some common sense left, although I'm not very optimistic.
@@vts747 While other manufacturers may eventually achieve Level 3 autonomy, Tesla might remain the only viable option for Level 4 at scale for the foreseeable future. Unless competitors license Tesla's software, achieving this level of automation could take more than two years. Ford's CEO recently stated that the company expects to produce a profitable electric vehicle within two years, suggesting that significant advancements in their BlueCruise system to Level 3 or 4 within that period are unlikely. Waymo, although operating at Level 4, has a fleet of only about 700 vehicles, making large-scale deployment unlikely in the near term. In contrast, Tesla has sold nearly 6 million cars, with approximately 900,000 equipped with Full Self-Driving (FSD), collectively amassing over 1 billion miles driven. This far exceeds Waymo's 20 million miles and Ford's 200 million miles driven. There is a common misconception that Tesla's FSD is merely Level 2; technically, it is the Autopilot that is classified as Level 2. Current FSD users observe that version 12 is closer to Level 3 and may eventually achieve Level 4. Early adopters might feel frustrated by the transition to a subscription-based model without perpetual grandfather clauses, but this model allows for continuous updates and improvements. Tesla may eventually cap its vehicle sales revenue and shift its focus to services such as robotaxi and Optimus robot rentals. This strategy could prove more cost-effective in the long term by maintaining its own fleet of autonomous vehicles and robots. This pivot towards service-oriented revenue streams can enhance profitability through recurring subscriptions and ensure a steady cash flow less reliant on vehicle sales. Tesla's extensive data advantage and strategic shift position it to potentially dominate the autonomous vehicle market if it can achieve Level 4 autonomy at scale.
I think the problem is that pricing fsd is really difficult. You want to sell it but actual price should be way higher once it works since it can earn you a lot of money. It should be way lower when it doesnt work if you make it non transferable then at least you are limiting it to 10 to 15 years per car. This allows you to at least gain value for robotaxis eventually It is a very difficult pricing problem
Understood but we should not value something based on what it will be/do in the future we have to value it for what it can do now, and right now it cannot earn money for you. When the day comes that it can earn money for you then it can be revisited and priced accordingly. This is the problem Tesla has been facing for years now, selling features that don't exist "at the time of purchase" Cybertruck and HW4 cars are experiencing this now. But on thr positive side anyone with HW3 is actually realizing the dull feature set of FSD so that's great.
@@BlackTesla Tesla cannot revisit the value of FSD in the future as people buy FSD with the future updates. If they price it too low too many people will buy and they will receive working FSD for too low of a price and tesla will loose out on a lot of profit. Not selling FSD now also means you loose out on a lot of profit. Especially that future money is not worth as much as current money. Stocks are an example of something that is priced based on the value in the future. All investments work like that. FSD is tricky to price because it is both a product and an investment. Tesla does have this policy that they sell their products as a promise of delivery in the future. Selling the features separately in the future would mean that they have to increase their prices of the vehicles for now. A lot of people are upset at tesla for doing this so maybe the trade off would be worth it. They are hurting their brand by choosing this policy but they are also maximizing their profits while minimizing the costs for customers. People that pay for the early FSD make it possible to make the cars less expensive for everybody else. I am sure if I would make the same decisions as Tesla. I just do think it is a tough tradeoff.
I totally agree that purchaser’s of the FSD software should be granted the rights to move the software between cars, just the same as if we owned a license to a Microsoft software. I’ve waited eight years to finally be able to use FSD. Alternatively, Tesla could refund our FSD purchase so we can use the funds to subscribe to the feature as needed
If you buy FSD before it’s finished you should get that for life to transfer from car to car. I do think it would be fair to say, at some point that license is no longer being updated. So say FSD 56.34.2 is the last one for your license and then you get that one for life with no further improvements. I think that would be fair for those who buy it once it’s done. For those early adopters who had it in its useless state…. They should have it for life no questions asked.
This is totally different than buying software traditionally. Historically there are no free new feature updates with bought software and the bug fixes/security patches are included for some limited time. On the other hand you can expect new features with subscription based software including safety updates etc. There has never been a software package where you pay once and can use it indefinitely but also get free updates.
I hear you but there are absolutely software providers that offer lifetime licenses and provide updates for life with thay payment. It's usually a high price but it happens.
They should just add FSD to the long range and performance trims due to the fact that you’re already paying a premium price. Especially since FSD is an ongoing testing cycle, the more people that have it the better the feedback will be. Now as for the people who have already paid the $8000-$12,000 for it, yes it should be permanently transferable to every Tesla vehicle that they purchase because it’s obviously on your account that you have purchase the software so why would you need to keep on purchasing the same software.
Videos and commentary are spectacular. As an admitted fan, I sometimes have difficulty separating my emotions from reality. But what you do, is objectively look at the big picture from a consumer perspective. I will never stop watching your videos, and I'm very appreciative of what you've done, and I think it's making me smarter.❤
Thank you good sir 🙏🏾
When people bought FSD they never got Full Self Driving. Instead they (including myself) became unpaid test pilots monitored by Tesla , giving them their valuable data. And we had to pay thousands of dollars for the privilege.
So yes, I agree that FSD should be transferable if we buy a new Tesla because the promise of FSD has not yet been fulfilled. When we sell our car, the resale value of incomplete FSD is minimal if not zero.
guess how they developped your Iphone.
When did you buy FSD?
@@Robert...Schreythey sold you a finished one to pay for the next one. They didn’t sell you prototype iPhones in 2005. They sold you iPods that worked.
You bought a beta software for early access basically. No smart person would but fsd thinking its gonna be full self driving. Disclaimers were written all over. You also take the bet that FSD would be more valuable in the future than it is today. If it worked sooner than expected you would have make money of your purchase, would you then give back the difference to Tesla?
@@FSDCanadaMtlwhat are you even talking about……. It was promised as a robotaxi ready solution 4 years ago………. And even it became that…. Anybody who took the gamble and bought it first before it was even done should get it for life. No questions asked. The part about ruining the sales cycle is laughable. That guy won’t have a sales cycle if the FSD doesn’t transfer. It sells more cars to let it transfer.
Absolutely right I think if you bought it, it’s yours for life When you buy a new car it transfer to the next car
Just link FSD licence to your Tesla account and then let us enter the VIN that it's being applied to.
Exactly, and then if you have two (or more) cars you can choose which to use it on at a given time. They acknowledge the barrier to buying a car is affordability, the same goes for FSD, a household might only be able to afford one copy. Subs are not available everywhere either but would also be an additional cost for additional vehicles.
The fact is, whether you buy it for the car or for the account they will average out to the same number of sales. People who want it will buy it, people who don't won't.
And on the account gives you incentive to buy another Tesla. And the fact in some regions you can subscribe, that must essentially be on the account already, so wouldn't seem like a big challenge to program it that way.
the people who paid for the whole software package should have it for life, upvoted!!
Absolutely!
Greedy is the
Agree
If the cost is 20 k USd, agreed
If I ran Tesla:
* Anyone who bought EAP/FSD before 2021 gets free FSD for life. "Thanks for waiting"
* Anyone who bought/transferred EAP/FSD before it can earn money as a Robotaxi should be able to transfer to a new Tesla. "Thanks for Beta testing"
* Anyone who buys FSD after their Tesla can earn money as a Robotaxi should get discount on future FSD purchases based on how much money your vehicle earns for Tesla as a Robotaxi. "Thanks for earning Tesla a portion of the fares"
"Free FSD for life" is maybe not the fairest for Tesla. I agree FSD lifetime would be a nice "thank you" for those who bought Enhanced AutoPilot (EAP) or FSD (which it became known as later) early, like before 2021. FSD ("AutoPilot on City Streets") was not available to public beta testers (that had a high enough "safety score") prior to 2021. I believe EAD/FSD was first available to purchase in 2017 - as a promise that it would be "feature complete" soon. That means many people purchased EAP/FSD and then waited over 4 years before the feature they bought was actually available for them to use - and it was a pretty crude/unsafe/limited version for at least a year. Can you imagine paying $8k (or more) for a feature that you never got to use because you sold your Tesla or your lease ended prior to getting access to the very rough, early release of that feature? ...Then having to buy it again in hopes of being able to use it and avoid the promised FSD price hikes? I sure hope those early adopters got some big trade-in value for this unrealized/underlievered feature.
Aside from the lifetime for early loyalty - Tesla should transfer FSD for free until you actually enroll your Tesla as a Robotaxi and earn money off of it. At that point FSD will likely be more expensive to purchase, but again, a one time free transfer would be a nice "thank you" for supporting FSD Beta/Supervised (and buying another Tesla). From this point on no more fully free transfers. Each time you trade-in your Tesla that has FSD (not subscription), you should get a free FSD transfer to your new vehicle *if* you bought any form of FSD that requires supervision.
Anyone that buys a Tesla with FSD that is able to perform as a Robotaxi, then they should get discounts based on usage. If the owner is earning money from Robotaxi fares, Tesla is earning a percentage as well; so a portion of the income Tesla gets from the fares should count toward your FSD discount on your next Tesla vehicle purchase. If you're making money for Tesla, why discourage you from upgrading to a new Tesla? Why discourage you from continuing to earn money for Tesla as a Robotaxiowner. Arguably however, the portion of the fares you earn is enough incentive for purchasing FSD at full price again on the next vehicle. A counter to this argument: this would encourage owners to enroll in the Robotaxi fleet to earn the future FSD purchase discount... as opposed to someone operating the vehicle under Uber/Lyft and using FSD, while not enrolled as a Robotaxi (like Kaz currently does on CYBRLFT ruclips.net/channel/UCRui2emHM2TPUwkE8D2H6aw).
Perhaps one's Robotaxi owner rating should also be a factor in the discount for FSD on a new vehicle purchase/lease - to further encourage good vehicle cleanliness/maintenance/customer service.
Don't get me wrong, even in it's past and current state I've enjoyed using and Beta testing FSD. I've gotten a lot of enjoyment, fun, and value out of FSD and I plan to get even more from it ... since I'm not in a hurry to buy a new Tesla. Is it worth the money I paid for it? Currently that is debatable to me. If I paid half what I did, I'd say it is well worth it. If I can use it as a Robotaxi before I sell/scrap it, then it will likely be worth the full price I paid for it. Would I trade in my Tesla in the future to buy a new one and pay the full price for FSD? My logical brain says "no". I'd likely go with the monthly subscription, and put the difference into TSLA stock.
I do think that free FSD transfer is a demand lever that Tesla should use to boost vehicle sales when needed.
I think FSD should be attached to your profile. If I rent a tesla I should have FSD as well
Spot on about wanting the braking to be smoother. Currently 12.3.6 brakes too soon sometimes and too late other times. FSD normally over-accelerates from stop signs on rural and suburban roads. In town in heavy traffic the acceleration from stop is about right, but you don't need that kind of acceleration when you're the only car on the road.
Maybe they need two options. 6k for non transferable, 15k for lifetime.
This might be genius. You should have been in the crowd at the shareholder meeting asking that question! I m gonna try to bring it up in the Tesla community.
I think one of their "issues" is that they have so far only been able to account for some of FSDs buyers cost as profit, while they give all of subscribers as profit. Likely they would just be 15k for transferable or subscribing.
Good suggestion.
Agreed, loyalty should be rewarded. Customer service is Tesla's Achilles heel.
Employee appreciation is another Achilles heel. The are readily laid off by the thousands, and Tesla factory is not a union shop, like Ford or GM.
I absolutely agree, the FSD licensing should certainly be transferable. Not sure what Elon doesn’t understand about taking care of loyal customers.
People will abuse it, as it will lead to life time FSD. Not very good if your revenue model is based on a reaccuring revenue stream.
Say it was transferrable, is there a limit? If not, then everyone would get the one time payment and never need to pay for FSD again, even when buying cars.
Remember cars in the future will not have the margins they have today, the long term revenue will come from software and subscriptions like FSD.
@@ajaylal5892Let’s make it simple. I have bought 2 Teslas so far and I am also a shareholder. If Tesla makes the FSD that I paid for 3 years ago transferable, my next car will be a Tesla. If not, I will buy some other brand. Tesla will not get any more revenue from me, whether in form of FSD subscription or new car sale. It seems like a no brainer for them.
@@ajaylal5892 When you buying a new Tesla, you're still paying for the car and the hardware and for the software, and prices always increase overtime. Moreover, have I ever received what I was promised six years ago? That the car will "drive itself from LA to NY to pick me up". Is it truly self-driving? So, I paid for a promise that hasn't been fully delivered, and now I can't even transfer that promise to a newer car? Try to trade your Tesla to Tesla, they give you ZERO for the FSD, as any other retailers. Private party also won't pay much over for it. So, we, the early adopters, got a raw deal. Can't really transfer, have to lose it and re-purchase it again, and still, no guarantee that it will ever be even level III. Perhaps, once it's fully functional (level III +), it should be tied to the car, and not transferable. But currently, it is not even close.
@@ajaylal5892 Eventually FSD will only be subscriptions based like any other software. You can no longer purchase MS Office or Adobe full license products today, everything will be subscription based.
If the FSD transfer is really that complicated (and it may be, not everything in accounting makes sense), then charge what it costs to do the transfer, whether it is $2000 or $50, to recoup the admin cost.
Yes, FSD is wearing our brakes down. I feel it could use the regen better.
They're supposed to fix that in 12.5
nice! I agree that FSD should be transferred to new car for good.
Totally agree with your assessment of FSD transferability. Long time owner and have purchased FSD for three of our Tesla's, and as a long time early adopter Tesla should make this a permanent action to insure fidelity and loyalty to the company. Not really fair to be dinged every vehicle purchase for FSD previously purchased. Also agree with your assessment of using regenerative braking rather than friction braking to slow the car. Uncomfortable when car has to use excessive friction braking to slow down for stop lights, etc. Excellent summary of issues that need to be fixed for 12.4.2 release.
Excellent breakdown! I completely agree that Tesla should make FSD transferable to new vehicles-it's just a software toggle after all. Specifically, improving the startup reliability, fixing lane centering issues, reducing aggressive braking, and eliminating phantom slowdowns would make a world of difference.
FSD definitely should be transferred for sure permanently. I wasn’t ready to commit to a new Tesla previously but when I’m in the market that may be the difference between me staying or leaving. For example, I have a cybertruck reserved, but I also know I’m not paying for FSD on that truck so if I can’t transfer from my model 3 I’d most likely keep the 3 for FSD and get a Rivian. 🤷🏽♂️
On FSD transfer to a new vehicle. I completely agree with you. it should be what common Sense dictates, it should be transferable to a new vehicle permanently.
It not only promotes its mass acceptance but it promotes the purchase of new vehicles.
it's a win-win situation for Tesla and the consumer.
My thoughts on transfer. If I sell my car, the next owner basically gets FSD for free. Then, either I have to buy it again (punishing me for buying an additional Tesla) or, more likely, I decide not to buy FSD. The other option is that I wait it out for another free transfer opportunity. If transfer remains free I am more likely to sell and upgrade to another Tesla sooner. Their reasoning isn’t really logical.
Or you buy another 2nd Tesla with FSD for free
If you have two cars the fsd on the second car should be half price. This would encourage multiple Tesla purchases among couples /families / businesses/ etc.
I alway set the "minimize lane changes" option.
That option should be remembered just as every other option in the car, not just for “current drive”
@@hanyuzh Agree. Not sure why that isn't setup like that. My guess is they will change that.
Yes, transferable and the reason for me to say this that I have own FSD for three years now in Sweden and haven’t been able to use FSD the same way as the state.😊
I agree that if I purchase fsd when I bought my first car I should be able to transfer that software because it have been there for the training and the ups and downs
Cheers Arnold Evernden
You are the best reviewer I follow. Thanks for your clear thinking and commentary!
I agree with Black Tesla’s transfer rant 100%. Love your videos, they’re the absolute best, especially for S & X owners. Thanks!
Your videos are always well thought out and rational. You are my go-to for new updates. I do have a comment about the FSD transfer and Elon's reply. If the business plan for Tesla includes a new FSD purchase with a new vehicle purchase, the transfer greatly impacts the bottom line. Although the price has changed recently, the $12,000 price for purchase it was not too long ago is 10% of a model S Plaid and 20 to 25% of a model 3 cost. That makes a big difference to investors and the stock price. I understand his reluctance to commit to a lifetime transfer.
I agree with being able to transfer if you bought FSD, it’s expensive and for us customers that had faith in Elon and Tesla, we should be rewarded. Maybe you get one free transfer and subsequent transfers can be at a really good discount, like 50%.
Or maybe he gives you lucky sons of bitches a free month transfer every 6 months!
That works too
Great observations, same as what I have noticed, hope Tesla is able to see this👍
I love the review. I'm not sure I've heard you ever be as outspoken on any topic. But I agree with your assessment of the FSD software license.
Great comments overall on the overall performance of the vehicle. Another Tesla evaluator said he heard there was a wider release planned for today. We'll see.
Sorry just passionate about helping all the owners out there on the fence which helps them and Tesla win.
I totally agree. It’s a software license!
Glad you "AGAIN" mentioned the Friction Braking 👍🏾 FSD is a fantastic feature,...but FSD appears to use Friction Braking as it's primary way to slow down or stop the car; that wears out the brake discs and pads. I am hoping Tesla will redesign the braking alogorithm to use more regen & less friction.
The way I see the FSD transfer issue is No1 Tesla wants the revenue from you buying it again with your next car. Elon said this. No2 any other brand of car you buy with XYZ features goes with that car when you sell it. Why should Tesla be any different? No3 you purchased FSD knowing it was not transferable. No4 When you sell the car with FSD it would increase the desirability of that car and increase the resale value. As a Tesla investor I think they have made the right and fair decision. I think your thought process is clouded as it is a very close to home issue to you.
I have not used Auto for the reason you have described. I set my profile at Chill with speed set to the speed limit. Sometimes the speed limit is read at a higher speed than posted and with Auto you cannot throttle back the speed without disengaging FSD. I live in a neighborhood with a 25 MPH speed limit and a dedicated golf cart lane, so I don't want the car to exceed the speed limit. Another great video and content.
Great content. I'm on 12.3.6 and love it. Your observations are very good - Tesla FSD team should watch this.
Definitely think FSD transfer should be on going for the time being until FSD is in a better state. Honestly I am holding off on upgrading till this transfer goes live.
100% need to allow transferability- this is not remotely difficult to do. Have it follow the account like the profiles for seats and this is simple.
It’s getting to the point where they will need to start offering refunds or allowing free unlimited universal transfers to any car they buy or drive. There is no technical reason this shouldn’t happen.
I am watching all the way from the Republic of South Africa. I like the videos, and that you are contributing to FSD (Supervised) being unsupervised and that it will benefit humankind, whereby we stop talking about accidents on the road. I can’t wait for that moment in time.🎉👍🏾😎🚶🏾Sharpido
In some jurisdictions, options are not allowed to be removed from vehicle after purchase. Once FSD is on a vehicle, it stays there for the life of the vehicle. This is a potential liability for the manufacturer. The fix would be to sell us FSD on our app; not on our car. Now if our cell phone is in a Tesla, that car has FSD. Also, selling the software license without requiring the purchase of a vehicle would be quite interesting.
I’m glad I had open eyes when I bought my car, knowing Tesla sales and service experience is more like dealing with a machine and less like hand-holding huggy customer service. While I haven’t had any big customer service issues, I would prefer some sort of loyalty program that was a bit more personable and allowed FSD transfer. Maybe bundle some service in with warranty extensions or something? No FSD transfer will delay me from buying another Tesla
Doesn’t make sense to buy it over and over and over when you buy a new car
I agree that FSD should be transferable at present time but once it becomes fully autonomous it should not be transferable. This is because in the future, their main revenue will come from selling FSD. This is why Elon is hesitant to make transferring FSD permanent. As a shareholder, I agree with this policy.
Exactly
FSD: Suggest offering 3 options:
1) Monthly as little or as much as wanted.
2) Car lifetime.
3) Owner lifetime
Once, my Sirius satellite had a lifetime option after the new-car subscription came to an end. I chose car lifetime at least as long as the car lasted for us. The radio unit died after 16 years. Could get it repaired… 🤔 Not with it. Getting a lot of rear end rust in Toronto. Lotsa love to all ❤❤❤
FSD should be tied to your account not your car. Maybe they can have a transfer fee but it should be transferable to any car you buy new or used. They should just do what Apple does, have a limited number of transfers. Maybe three per purchase. Also, those who have a legacy Tesla should get a free transfer since we don’t get all the newest updates even though we were promised we would.
I upgraded from my 3 to a y and Tesla would not even give me any trade in value. This makes no sense to me. I paid for it in full and yet it is treated as a lease at the end of the day. As to improving vs 12, which is amazing btw, I would suggest eliminating left turns unless protected. This would eliminate not only a danger, but also help the regulatory process. Elon is big on deleting unnecessary steps in any process this would fall in line with that philosophy. Great videos, keep up the good work, tnx!
As a 2020 M3LR owner who bought FSD for $6K in 2020, I'd absolutely be more likely to buy another Tesla SOONER if I could roll my subscription over. One of my reasons for keeping my car is I feel like I want to get my money's worth. Probably wouldn't pay $8K or $99/mo if I bought another, unless I keep my car a very long time (and by that time FSD may be higher).
Love the critical analysis from this man.
For starters, I agree (in theory). However, I purchased a used 2022 MY for the sensors. It came with FSD. So … imo it stays with the car and not the person?
So I don’t know how all this is gonna work out, but I certainly agree that something has to be done, because as you said, every Tesla car has the capable of full self driving, and all it takes is to toggle it on or of, so I don’t understand Elon’s response about this question of lifetime transferability of FSD from one Tesla vehicle to another.
So full disclosure, I traded in my 2018 model 3, and I transferred FSD to my new 2024 Model S, and I can tell you that was a big reason why I made the purchase, and if everything continues on track, and Tesla continues to improve, and we get to the point where we’re at level 3 or 4, where we no longer have to pay attention to the road, and of course the car has to be able to avoid the edge cases, to be able to steer around, potholes, missing, manhole covers, and other road hazards, because if the car becomes fully autonomous, why in the world would anyone wanna buy a car? Moreover, why would Tesla even sell you a car, because they can make a lot more profit by just renting out or leasing out their cars. Cheers 🥂
Something will be done. Robotaxis. FSD for everybody. No need to buy a car.
I do agree that the auto speed should be fixed. However, going 5 over in our neighborhood is not appropriate. 5 over on the perimeter access road is appropriate. So, there can’t be one simple rule. Until, FSD auto speed can be trained, more control should be given to the driver. Right now, auto speed will accelerate up to 48 mph in a 30 zone. The only way to stop it is to disengage. I think learning ends when FSD is disengaged. Keep your videos going on fixing FSD. We all want it to work. Thanks.
I think with my suggestion if you don't set an offset then it will operate to the limit at max. In the example I used it was simply using a 5mph offset set by the owner as an example or for areas where people commonly drive 5-10mph over.
100%Spot on ,I hope Elon takes note ,I got FSD in 2020 but in UK I have almost nothing on my 2019 100d X ,in fact they took away auto lane change on high ways.
I hope this feedback reaches Tesla/Musk that this is a fundamental thing. You know this just makes SENSE. You buy it, it’s yours. $6000 for non-transferable, $15k for life, all existing accounts, life.
Seems like the Dead Zone issue on Bloomfield Ave has been rectified! Thanks for your help in getting it done.
Yes Tesla reached out and said it's resolved with the latest map data
Another MAJOR issue for me is intersection (stop sign and stop light) behavior. FSD slows way too soon on approach and stops way too far behind vehicles in front as well as behind stop lines. They need to tighten follow/stop distance, stop AT stop lines, and slow more smoothly and later for lights and signs. We know it's safe enough now to do so...
I hear you, but if you expect updates then you never did really “buy” the software did you? In other words, you are actually expecting a service
My theory is that all capable cars have FSD installed. Buying or subscribing simply flips a bit to enable it. This makes the transfer really easy.
Useful info - thanks
Change of subject…
I live in S Florida and there are occasions when the rain is simply overwhelming. I have a Y w hw4, so my question is: radar, I believe would increase safety on those occasions. Any thoughts/ideas? 😅
Yes radar is still useful imo. It May provide noise in most situations but until Tesla implements solutions to keep the cameras clear they are still very useful especially for parking. But let's see what HW5 has to bring.
I agree totally with transfer of FSD, I'd like to buy a new S Plaid this year to replace the 21 I have. The aggressive high speed driving in my area (Phila. Suburbs) is completely out of control not allowing me to use FSD in heavy traffic at all, It's just not fast enough for cars swerving in and out of lanes, dangerously slowing down. Thank you so muchfor wbat you are doing, I too feel Tesla customer service is very poorly structured and MUST recognize custome royalty.
🎉.
If you own two Teslas, it would be nice if you could have one subscription and transfer it depending on the car you decide to drive that day.
the thing is because he wants people to switch to the subscription model. that's the part you didn't realize. it's more beneficial to have people pay $100 a month rather than a flat fee.
Elon's answer about FSD transfer was just bullshit. They have no problem removing it from every car that is returned to them before they sell it again. Like you said, make a toggle in the account so it doesn't matter what car they get in, hell even a rental could work
It should be transferable. It’s software that can be easily move from one car to another. Elon just making it sound like it’s hard to do because he wants people to buy it over and over.
He was referring the financial side not the technology side. And finally added that it s actually for money. Did you watch it even?!
The pioneers who bought FSD before it was as good as it is now should be rewarded by being able to transfer their FSD to a new Tesla.
I hear you, its quite fustrating to be stuck with an old car with FSD and not get to enjoy it in the new car unless you pay for it again at a possibly higher price.
My thoughts are that FSD might cease to be purchased outright once they ramp their robotaxi. Also the price might be doubled once it gets to a point of revenue generation via autonomy. Hence the mention that sales cycle is complicated... if they transfer it for free, the revenue is zero instead of double.
The acceleration is one on my bigger complaints in 12.3 on my Model S. When it's wet out, I can actually feel the tires break loose just a bit while starting out.
100% agree! The Lane Change Wiggle must end.
I won't speculate on the sales complexity. For shareholders, we want to see revenue. So, transferring this kind of software from car to car, hurts that. What I think is that it's just far too expensive of an add-on. They should make it a couple thousand dollars cheaper so that it's not such a big deal when you lose it when you decide to go up to the newer tesla. I think $5000 for FSD is fair.
I am totally with you on the FSD being a piece of software that you own and can be transferred from car to car just like I do for my PCs. It wouldn't be such a huge deal if it was actually valued when I go to sell my car but it is not. Its not even an option on kbb.
5:26 I want to be able to bias the drive path within the lane, to give more room to pedestrians or suspect vehicles or to avoid potholes and rough pavement or to prepare to turn at a very tight corner without curbing the wheel or dropping a wheel in a ditch.
I agree! The right scroll wheel should have left/right movement to control lane bias like the up/down controls speed. My 12.3.6 hugs the centerline causing multiple interventions.
I totally agree FSD should be 100% transferable.
Do you mean the turning too much left (not right)? I remember 12.3.1 was too close to curb/right which was too tight. I like 12.3.6 and closer to the left.
It seems to be pulling to the right towards the curb and the debris near it instead of left towards the center line
100% FSD needs to be transferrable, we paid 10k for an unfinished product, it's the least they could do. Tie it to our profile, so any Tesla we get in has FSD. I'm waiting for Juniper refresh and FSD to transfer, but I'll consider getting a new Y now if FSD is transferrable, just for a newer car, HW4, adaptive headlights, the AMD chip and softer suspension.
IMO: It should transfer from vehicle to vehicle until it actually becomes "FSD." Otherwise you have paid for something you did not 'Full'y get!
Regarding FSD transfer. For those who purchased FSD, the transfer should be allowed whenever you buy a new car, at least until the time when autonomy is solved. Prior to that, we haven't gotten what we paid for and should not have to give it up. I have a 2019 Model X with FSD, but the timing isn't right for me to get a new Model X. I am waiting for the price to be such that I can get the exterior and interior color of my choice and still be under the $80K tax credit cap.
When FSD is transferable for "one more" quarter, must delivery occur before the end of the quarter, or must the car simply be ordered within the quarter? I hope it's the latter as I have no control over Tesla's delivery schedule.
They usually incentivize delivery before the end of quarter.
I'm not an owner of the FSD at the moment. The main reason I'm not is because of the fear of losing it. What if I just buy a new Tesla and one week later the car is totaled. I would buy it but there are just too many ways to lose it. How many people would buy Tesla stock through TD Ameritrade if they couldn't transfer it to Fidelity or somewhere else at a later time if they need to?
If totaled your insurance should value FSD and pay for it in your new Tesla
I agree re: permanent FSD transferability. This is especially true for those who have their cars totaled. They shouldn’t have to buy it again for the replacement car.
Another point is that those of us who literally risked our lives beta testing the very early super buggy builds and provided valuable data to Tesla should get free lifetime FSD transfers.
I will not buy another Tesla unless I can transfer the software to a new car. It's just too expensive for us to do with every purchase. Beta purchasers should be compensated.
The sales cycle complication is the value of FSD is supposed to be in the trade-in value of the used car. So transferring FSD should reduce the value of the trade-in.
Sadly it doesn't, Tesla doesn't value the software the way people expect. It's software so it's not going to degrade but rather become more valuable over time so the trade in value should be the full value of what you paid or current market value and they sadly don't recognize either.
@@BlackTesla I never understood why they chose to sell FSD over a subscription model. A subscription model also lets you recognize the revenue sooner. Moreover, the value of FSD should not go up over time because your uptake will decline as you jack up the price. Tesla should maximize the uptake of FSD in order to make the most money off of fleet FSD and the revenue split.
If it has been flawless (I mean, in general working in expectable way all the time on all occasions) I would pay it again when I update my car. But it has been inconsistent and unpredictable version by version, for extended period of time, it is becoming harder for me to buy it again.
The only reason I'm not upgrading to a new Tesla is lack of FSD transfer. And to be fair, many of us still on the hardware 3 and may not have all the same options/capabilities of hw4 FSD, and there is no hardware upgrade either. The only option is to get latest Tesla. I even called their sales dept, they refused any transfer unless Tesla makes it available again. Last time they did it the constraints were excessive, you had to take a delivery before a specific date only weeks away, or you lose the transfer and for some reason lose the FSD on your original car. That's sounded like a theft, so I didn't pull the trigger. Maybe at the end of Q3?
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Mixed feelings on FSD status. I think I lean towards the software aspect of FSD being something that I purchase or lease for personal use and should be available to me in any Tesla I drive. Reasonable allowances for allowing access to FSD for other drivers using a car I own with reasonable restrictions on multiple simultaneous uses of my 'copy'.
Good content from BT! But the title should be "What to Fix" instead of "How to Fix" ... big difference. Tesla engineers are obviously struggling with "how to fix" some of these issues, as tuning AI models is new territory for everyone. Most of us don't know exactly how they are handling the refinement of these models. Reinforcement learning in some form or another, most likely. It's not the same as finding the right spot in the code to add a conditional statement to make a change... that's how it was done in the 300k LOC that Tesla dumped. Different story now... more analogous to behavioral modification.
At least the honesty is out now about FSD being used as a crutch to prop up sales. Just a shame that people were suckered into this, thinking robotaxi was right around the corner.
And before the people come in saying "robotaxi was never in the fine print of any sales", I would like to remind you of an expression that humans around the world have had to keep ignoring as companies continue to abuse customers with 0 punishment: "There is the letter of the law, and then there is the spirit of the law". You can't tell me with a straight face that Tesla customers have been treated fairly when it comes to FSD.
Agree with speed topic! This is my biggest issue.
Love you BT. Can you not talk shit just once in a while. You are always so sensible.
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Even in 12.3.6 there should be a way to set the lane centering bias. How do you get these things to park in your driveway and leave your driveway ? Seems like it leave it up to you at the end of the drive . I am on 12.3.6 still . I would like to have a favorite stored routes feature
rather than what google maps decides is the way to go. Speed sign reading is also and issue.
FSD is not transferable because it will end up being a 1 time purchase, so there is less revenue on the next purchase. With that said, they should offer a commercial(robotaxi) license personal use license at a lower price. Commercial license will be for xx amount of years regardless of the vehicle using it, and the personal use license would be for a single car. Either option can be a full purchase or monthly subscription... BUT since FSD is not feature complete, it should be fully transferable until then. My 2 cents.
I’ve been a firm believer that FSD purchase should be tied to your Tesla account. If you rent a tesla from Hertz, once the tesla is added to your profile, it should allow the use of FSD. If I borrow my brother’s Tesla, it connects to my phone, it automatically allows the use of FSD. I think it would improve the take rate substantially. When I tell people it’s 12k, they go “JESUS, no way would I pay 12k for that…”
Good video. I’m kind of shocked that this is actually happening.
If you buy FSD on the car , you should be able to sell it with the car and realize the value, if you want. Or, you should be able to take it with you for your next Tesla or transfer it to someone else.
The thing is , they have a monopoly on the tech so they are exploiting that for now. I guess they think feel like they spent a lot of money developing it and want to see some return.
I think they will get more generous once the tech is more mature and they are pumping out robo taxis
I see that speed is a problem. The sentiment changes from state to state or even town to town. Maybe if the Chill setting sets speed to max speed limit. Average let's the driver set speed on highway and Assertive let the driver set the urban or highway speed. Maybe an automatic setup as well.
As a retired person anything to reduce the cost of FSD is welcome. If I owned a Tesla with FSD and bought a second one would I have the option of transferring FSD to the new Tesla and disabled on the old one? I wish Musk would use some of his "Race to Mars" money and get this in the hands of ALL Tesla owners.
I don’t think FSD is worth it right now, I only use the highway part. The city street is just not ready yet, also the auto offset is really an issue right now, goes way too fast or too slow like you mentioned was the main reason I don’t use it just causes others to be frustrated and you know how us NJ people are
Also on the point of customer loyalty , it’s crazy I had an appointment scheduled a month out and the center has not responded to any of my messages in the app. Really having a hard time trying to stay loyal to this brand sometimes the service has gone downhill vastly
Great video as always! I also think that the full FSD purchase should be transferable, but I do see both sides of the coin. Training these models is super expensive, and they no doubt want to recoup some of those costs even when car sales stagnate because existing owners are still getting updates.
One solution could be to charge a small amount for existing owners to upgrade to each major FSD version (e.g. 12.x, 13.x, etc.). To do that, though, they will need to decouple the FSD software updates from the rest of the software on the car.
Very rarely does one-time purchased software get free updates for life. Usually, you get updates for the current major version, but must pay for the next one, such as operating systems, office suite software, etc.
The problem is promises were made about the endpoint of the software being full driverless robotaxi. Not our problem they couldn’t deliver. Until it does EXACTLY what was advertised, updates should be free. Their inability to hold their end of the deal is their problem, not customers.
I don't believe there are free updates but rather built-in costs when you buy the car that's prepaid for updates. They need to train the models but they need data from people's cars to help train them, so Tesla owners are paying thousands of dollars to use the software while simultaneously feeding "free data" since data collection is also happening in shadow mode to Tesla in return. I think allowing transfers is a way to keep the balance.
It would be cool if Tesla gave a one-time transfer for any Tesla but I can see them phasing out the buyout fee and transitioning to a subscription model. They’re probably taking the same approach with Optimus, renting before owning.
They are not the only game it town, btw. And they won't have the monopoly on level iii+, if they ever get there. I'm stuck with my current FSD, and if they won't take a transfer, in the next two years someone will come up with something similar to FSD and cheaper, to compete with Tesla. I'll switch back to gas if this is what it takes. So much for their "transition world to whatever" slogan if they are pushing out their most loyal customers who actually paid for this stuff and have been testing for years (I'm an FSD beta tester for the record). I hope they still have some common sense left, although I'm not very optimistic.
@@vts747 While other manufacturers may eventually achieve Level 3 autonomy, Tesla might remain the only viable option for Level 4 at scale for the foreseeable future. Unless competitors license Tesla's software, achieving this level of automation could take more than two years. Ford's CEO recently stated that the company expects to produce a profitable electric vehicle within two years, suggesting that significant advancements in their BlueCruise system to Level 3 or 4 within that period are unlikely. Waymo, although operating at Level 4, has a fleet of only about 700 vehicles, making large-scale deployment unlikely in the near term. In contrast, Tesla has sold nearly 6 million cars, with approximately 900,000 equipped with Full Self-Driving (FSD), collectively amassing over 1 billion miles driven. This far exceeds Waymo's 20 million miles and Ford's 200 million miles driven.
There is a common misconception that Tesla's FSD is merely Level 2; technically, it is the Autopilot that is classified as Level 2. Current FSD users observe that version 12 is closer to Level 3 and may eventually achieve Level 4. Early adopters might feel frustrated by the transition to a subscription-based model without perpetual grandfather clauses, but this model allows for continuous updates and improvements.
Tesla may eventually cap its vehicle sales revenue and shift its focus to services such as robotaxi and Optimus robot rentals. This strategy could prove more cost-effective in the long term by maintaining its own fleet of autonomous vehicles and robots. This pivot towards service-oriented revenue streams can enhance profitability through recurring subscriptions and ensure a steady cash flow less reliant on vehicle sales. Tesla's extensive data advantage and strategic shift position it to potentially dominate the autonomous vehicle market if it can achieve Level 4 autonomy at scale.
I think the problem is that pricing fsd is really difficult. You want to sell it but actual price should be way higher once it works since it can earn you a lot of money. It should be way lower when it doesnt work
if you make it non transferable then at least you are limiting it to 10 to 15 years per car. This allows you to at least gain value for robotaxis eventually
It is a very difficult pricing problem
Understood but we should not value something based on what it will be/do in the future we have to value it for what it can do now, and right now it cannot earn money for you. When the day comes that it can earn money for you then it can be revisited and priced accordingly. This is the problem Tesla has been facing for years now, selling features that don't exist "at the time of purchase" Cybertruck and HW4 cars are experiencing this now. But on thr positive side anyone with HW3 is actually realizing the dull feature set of FSD so that's great.
@@BlackTesla Tesla cannot revisit the value of FSD in the future as people buy FSD with the future updates. If they price it too low too many people will buy and they will receive working FSD for too low of a price and tesla will loose out on a lot of profit.
Not selling FSD now also means you loose out on a lot of profit. Especially that future money is not worth as much as current money.
Stocks are an example of something that is priced based on the value in the future. All investments work like that.
FSD is tricky to price because it is both a product and an investment.
Tesla does have this policy that they sell their products as a promise of delivery in the future. Selling the features separately in the future would mean that they have to increase their prices of the vehicles for now.
A lot of people are upset at tesla for doing this so maybe the trade off would be worth it.
They are hurting their brand by choosing this policy but they are also maximizing their profits while minimizing the costs for customers.
People that pay for the early FSD make it possible to make the cars less expensive for everybody else.
I am sure if I would make the same decisions as Tesla. I just do think it is a tough tradeoff.
I totally agree that purchaser’s of the FSD software should be granted the rights to move the software between cars, just the same as if we owned a license to a Microsoft software. I’ve waited eight years to finally be able to use FSD. Alternatively, Tesla could refund our FSD purchase so we can use the funds to subscribe to the feature as needed
I like that idea
If you buy FSD before it’s finished you should get that for life to transfer from car to car. I do think it would be fair to say, at some point that license is no longer being updated. So say FSD 56.34.2 is the last one for your license and then you get that one for life with no further improvements. I think that would be fair for those who buy it once it’s done. For those early adopters who had it in its useless state…. They should have it for life no questions asked.
This is totally different than buying software traditionally. Historically there are no free new feature updates with bought software and the bug fixes/security patches are included for some limited time. On the other hand you can expect new features with subscription based software including safety updates etc. There has never been a software package where you pay once and can use it indefinitely but also get free updates.
I hear you but there are absolutely software providers that offer lifetime licenses and provide updates for life with thay payment. It's usually a high price but it happens.
They should just add FSD to the long range and performance trims due to the fact that you’re already paying a premium price. Especially since FSD is an ongoing testing cycle, the more people that have it the better the feedback will be. Now as for the people who have already paid the $8000-$12,000 for it, yes it should be permanently transferable to every Tesla vehicle that they purchase because it’s obviously on your account that you have purchase the software so why would you need to keep on purchasing the same software.
Bought it in 2018. Was supposed to be done in 2018. 6 years later….
Maybe charge a "transfer fee" of $500 or a 1-2 time car transfer.
Or own it, but have low update fees, except for security, safety updates
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