Band of Brothers. Tank Battle Europe. Sherman + Cromwell * Tiger + (Jagdpanther || Stug)
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Operation Market Garden finds Easy company in Netherlands. Careful there's a crouching Tiger hull down angled camouflaged ready to blast your nice paint job. #wot #tank
HBO. Currently streaming on Netflix.
When the tank commander said "we're under orders to minimize damage" I envisioned a post war ceremony kind of like a Monty Python skit:
"Leftenant McBugger is recognized for having lost seven consecutive battles resulting in some minor cracking to a single window pane in Farfegnugen, Luxemborg." Everyone claps, the soldier's parents have tears of pride and joy.
Who idiot give that orders?
“If I can’t see the bugger, I can’t bloody well shoot him can I?” Pip, pip, tally ho…I shall drive ahead so I can see the bugger and die.
Always look on the bright side of life... dododododo
Always look on the bright side of death dododododo
You came from nothing, You're ending with nothing, so you really haven't lost anything.
But they weren't under such orders
Its the one big black mark in BoB. There were no such orders for allied tankees. Any tank commander would have absolutely opened fire after that warning from the infantry.
But it helps improve the image of the Protagonist unit as the best.
I wouldn't really expect anything different from the pen of Stephen Ambrose. Possibly the worst example of an American revisionist historian who would critique non US forces at every opportunity. A once respected historian who came in for heavy criticism from Hastings, Beevor and D'Este (to name a few) for his rewriting of the role of the US in the Western European Theatre. A real denigration to the tens of thousands of Allied service personnel who gave their lives to liberate Western Europe.
Not a black mark. It's ok
@@andyr226 Exactly. Excellent post. I don't know if it's based on a true anecdote but I really struggle to believe (especially having met many UK tanker vets in years past) that veteran British units who knew just what German armour was capable of, would blithely and clumsily roll forward like that dismissing a clear warning of a German tank lying in ambush. 44th RTR was a battle-hardemed unit with desert and Italian theatre experience. It may serve to highlight some cultural differences in the different armies 80 years back...but more likely... anything by Stephen Ambrose that portrays the Brits as stiff lily-livered caution freaks who drink tea at every opportunity...
British Army: "My orders are no unnecessary destruction of property"
Royal Air Force: "My orders are maximum destruction of property"
Dutch vs German property
yup HARRIS kicked ass
Funny line since we all know they destroyed a lot of beautiful buildings. I mean A LOT. Side note. The savage Aztecs somehow built huge pyramids and sacrificed live women and children to their sun god. No questions here.
@@zillsburyy1war crimes unfortunately
@@kbanghartno crimes
In real life, the 44th Royal Tank Regiment was a far more experienced and battle hardened unit than the US 101st Airborne was at the time. The US 101st barely had two months combat experience in September 1944. The 44th RTR had years of experience. North Africa, Sicily, Italian mainland and all through Normandy.
The real battle involved B Squadron, 44th RTR.
A History of the 44th Royal Tank Regiment 1939-1945, Part III Northwest Europe 1944-1945, pages 160/161, by Major General G.C. Hopkinson.
"" Contact was established with the 101st, orders for the next day were received and from that moment on the battle for the road (i.e Hell's Highway) began. Little or nothing was known of the enemy but there were definitely tanks east of the road and south of the canal at Zon. The plan therefore for the 20th was to ensure that this area was cleaned up and that the road and bridge over the canal remained open. At first light, C Squadron moved forward up the main road and soon contacted the enemy, consisting of infantry and self propelled guns on the east of the road. Meanwhile, B Squadron, with 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, had moved out of Eindhoven, directed on Nunen. A squadron of 15/19th Hussars was to come down from the north and link up with C Squadron whilst the Royals filled in the gaps with armoured car patrols.
By 10.00 hours the engagement was pretty general all along the front. C Squadron were having a brisk armour piercing battle just east of the road but had driven the enemy infantry away and put paid to a couple of self-propelled guns. 15/19th Hussars were also heavily engaged at Nederwetten. B Squadron on the right were in Opwetten and had smartened up a couple of MK IV tanks and were moving on towards Nunen. It was obvious from the amount of flak going up that the enemy was in pretty good strength. Nevertheless a continuous stream of traffic was once more going up the road and our objective had been achieved. C Squadron was therefore ordered to proceed to St Oedenrode and come under command of 501 Parachute Infantry Regiment. B Squadron had meantime bumped into trouble in their approach to Nunen. Lieut. Benton's troop losing a couple of tanks.
As it was by now obvious that Nunen was held in strength, A Squadron were called forward and a double flank attack was planned. Traffic jams caused some delay but by 1700 hours the attack went in with A Squadron on the left and B Squadron on the right. Two more Mk IV tanks and some half tracks were accounted for then failing light intervened and the attack was called off but not before it was firmly established that the enemy were withdrawing. The Regiment therefore went into leaguer at Eindhoven. Identifications proved that the enemy formation was 107 Panzer Brigade
Mate there were many Regiments who had more experience than any of the US Army
@@lyndoncmp5751 If this was Sept 44 The lead tank would have been a Firefly with the following Cromwell some Yards back not up the Leaders arse.
How long had they been in combat without a break ?
@@nickdanger3802 who??
My father was drafted into the Army during WWII, and sent to Europe after D Day. He found himself in the Ardenne Forest, with a small unit, cut off during the Battle of the Bulge. After a few days wandering in the wood with no winter coat or food, his feet frozen, he was taken prisoner and narrowly escaped death in a POW camp....His first and last combat experience.....He was particularly impressed by German mortar rounds exploding in the trees over his head.
They have trees exploding in another episode
Lucky Man, your father!! God Bless!
I'm no expert in tank tactics, but one would think a tank commander having been informed of an enemy lying in wait ahead of him would at least hold position and order another tank to conduct a flanking movement on the German tank.
I wonder if the tank commander warned the tanks behind him too.
The scene with the british tank commander was meant to reflect the fairly rigid command structure the brits had and also bring to light the differences between the two nations in the war - americans giving commands to brits etc isn't without problems. This is brought up in few of the books, but also in the HBO's official podcast for the show (worth checking). So take the scene as an amalgam of typical issues at the time (remember, 80 years ago - very different life back then!).
This scene is nonsense. British 44th Royal Tank Regiment already knew Panzer Brigade 107 was there with armour in Nuenen. Panzer Brigade 107 had just been pushed back to Nuenen from the Son bridge area earlier that day. The 44th RTR had just knocked out two Stummels at Opwetten, a few hundred yards from Nuenen.
The lead tank was commanded by Lt Benton of B Squadron.
@@RekoUkko He was not giving orders, he was warning him.
And the Brit would have taken notice, no one ignores the warning of a enemy tank to his left front . And NO tankee would then have his Gun to the front.
The Jagdpanther looked real. Clean glacis. The model makers did well.
Rubbish at 2:30the Brit tankee is looking to his right after being told that a enemy tank was just beyond the building to his left. He would have had HIS gun facing to the left and maybe the Cromwell behind him to the Right. But no tankee is going to ignore a warning of enemy to his front.
@@mmackenzie3922 No Hanks and Spielberg do not like the British
@@jacktattis I'm reading the book right now, and this event is described exactly like this in the book, from the soldiers. They told them of a tank, they didn't take it seriously, and got blown up. Definitely sounds like it happened.
Exactly where was this and what date.Thanks @@aaroncuanto3469
Now go to the RAC Unit page of WW2 read the daily reports and confirm this.@@aaroncuanto3469
Add the book's author Ambrose to that list. Plagiarist and pseudo-fluff historian, he was a US Army male groupie.
I think the real reason behind the 'no unnecessary destruction' order, was that they feared a lot of Dutch civilians were still in their homes and didn't want a whole bunch of collateral damage. Also highly likely that the British commanders wanted to be seen as liberators and not level the whole town just to defeat the nazis.
When I was a kid me and my dad would rent a new episode or whatever they are of this from blockbuster each weekend until we saw them all, good times.
Though it didn't work this time (thanks to the higher ups "rules of engagement) this is why armor, especially in built up areas, should always be accompanied by infantry.
In real life the days fighting (September 20th) was actually a success for the British tanks and US paras. They worked well together and pushed Panzer Brigade 107 away from the Son Bailey bridge and then back from Nuenen, removing 107 as a threat to the Eindhoven sector.
Ambrose didn't really care for the Brit's.
A Sherman or a Cromwell was dead meat in a head on fight with a Tiger, but at those ranges, from the side, even the short barreled 75mm from a Sherman could kill a Tiger.
They were far from the invincible monster they're always made out to be.
of course not, but at point blank range, the one who shoots first wins, and the Tiger here had the ambush advantage.
The 75 mm had to be at point blank which was why the brits made the Firefly and you will find that the Brits/Canucks faced 90% of the Tigers in France The US faced the Panther
An upgunned Sherman Firefly could pierce the Tiger's armor .
@@reynaldoflores4522 oh yes
@@jacktattisNot necessarily point blank range. A Tiger-I with its 60/80 mm side armor will succumb to an AP shell hit from the Sherman 75mm gun out to even 600+ yds. from a 90 degree angle, and about 2/3 that range from a 30 degree angle. Sherman’s knocked out a lot of Panzers, Panthers & the occasional Tigers via ambushing tactics.
Yes, the Brits who fought Tigers manned by the likes of Wittman had no idea how to deal with german armour. They never learned a thing. Love the series, but the Hollywood obsession with taking a dump on British troops and commanders in WW2 is beyond poor.
Check out British Sherman Fireflys, It had an anti tank gun shoe horned intuit which could penetrate a Tiger .
@@idonthavealoginname The guy you replied to was being sarcastic. OP mentioned Wittman because his unit of Tigers got a huge ass-whopping from British tanks in a village and Wittman was lucky to escape.
@@SonnyBurnett02
Thanks! Now I another interesting bit of WWII to read up on. I do agree with the OP about Hollywood's overrated themes/portrayals of American characters/forces. Though I thought _'Bridge On The River Kwai'_ and _'The Guns Of Navarone'_ were well done with the British composition involved.
Best regards from California.
He was obeying orders.
Except he didnt escape , a round from a Firefly blew the shit out of his Tiger
So many armchair generals. I am sure if they have been in charge, they would have saved every single Cromwell and destroyed every Tiger. With ease.
Such drivel, this scene. I mean anecdotes from tank crews in 2nd Army make it clear that “avoiding unnecessary destruction” was an alien concept. Blasting down walls with 75mm to make loopholes, AVRE’s demolishing entire houses just to have some rubble to fill an A/Tk ditch, flamethrowering particularly entrenched defenders in a house, blowing down walls, cratering roads etc etc etc. Your infantry screen tells you there’s a tank behind a building? BANG, building gone.
One wonders whether the writers’ research extended much beyond re-reading Stephen Ambrose’s weak, third-rate books.
You’re comment is drivel. Walter Mitty
This is just the usual anti Montgomery nonsense that the Yanks always come up with around D Day
Its a joke. Worst scene in the series. Their spacing is hilarious 10 guys on a corner. Tiger engagments basically didnt happen and the idea the British are that stupid is plain offensive.
This. I'm glad Ambrose is getting exposed for the hack that he is.
There's new breed historiography and analysis coming to light re. 2nd Army and the trials it faced. Our picture of the war has been tainted by egotistical post war German generals, US propaganda and idiots like Hastings and Ambrose. See 18 Platoon and go from there people and DO NOT consult Wikipedia.
@@carlchallinor4933 well it is American they always show us being stupiid
"Ramirez, hold E to take down that fence!"
I have a buddy named Ramirez and I think of him when I watch this lol
The German MG42 is an engineering masterpiece.
The U.S. M-60 machine gun was a reworked MG42.
There seems to have been a choice here to make the Brits look incompetent and essentially a hindrance to the Americans. Surely the British army had been fighting the Axis long enough to know their buisness?
Band of Brothers made a few mistakes here and there, but tried to stick to the memoirs of the men that were there. In reality Market Garden was Montgomery's baby, but it showed he was incompetent on offense. Paratroopers were supposed to hold key bridges against God knows what while the Allied armor drove down narrow roads to meet them. Narrow roads flanked by forests full of German anti-tank guns. Not a good plan
Whilst I fully agree with you, the complete domination of Allied air power in the ETO by then must have been an encouragement for the daring, though ultimately flawed plan.@@donaldshotts4429
@donaldshotts4429 I don't know" the hold up" was Arnhem with the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions in the vicinity for R&R purposes after being mauled at Normandy.The Ist Brtish Airborne dropped too far away to secure this final bridge with little more than company strength. It was a reasonable plan for that portion of the war.😮
*British 1st Airborne
@Hadrojassic My error you are correct as I got it mixed up with a Operation Wact am Rhein
What you don't hear very often is Tiger tanks broke down every 10 kilometers. Over engineered and very difficult to work on in the field.
I can believe it after owning an Audi
From all accounts I have read there seems to be lots of truth
In the unreliability of the Tiger Tanks
They always had fuel problems as well as fuel leaks.
Spot on !
@@jeretsoWhat do Americans do to their cars to get such bad reliability.
Europeans never have problems on the scale that US complains about. Is it your substandard fuel?
I find it weird for the tanker to just straight don't believe anything the infantry said..
Eventhough said infantry were part of the advance team in the city....
Not so much not believing, but being so bound by orders that he could not act on what he was told🤔
Orders are important but Tanker should've chambered a round and fired as soon as turning that corner. Maybe the rounds were expensive. Keep in mind story is from the point of view of infantry letters.
@@jeretso Agreed. He should at least of briefed the other tanks and been ready to fire at theTiger as soon as it came into view. Also, as you say, it was dramatised from from letters and later interviews with survivors from the unit, so many conversations are likely to be from the imaginations of the scriptwriters.
@@mandoprince1 Its such a great story with actual interviews from Easy company. I was sad when the series ended.
@@jeretso A great series and the interviews add so much to it! What is perhaps surprising is how many of the characters were played by British actors.
This is the one scene that proves an unsupported tank is extremely vulnerable and why the cooridnation and communication with Tanks and Infantry is paramount.
If the Infantry KNEW where the enemy tank was they should have done something to mark the location of the enemy tank. If this was in the 21st century this could have been an IR strobe. Another option wpuld have been a smoke grenade to obscure the enemies sight line. or triggering the fight with a bazooka shot.
I agree the infantry should have made an attempt to fire on the direct vicinity of the tank in question, or tanks. A bazooka round, maybe, or smoke screen to obscure the approach, except that would bring the other tanks in the crosshairs of what is sure to be a field of fire by more than one tank.
agreed but it's better to start the fight now at a distance rather than close quarters. starting this fight early and not walking into a trap could have saved lives.@@HamilcarBarca-jm3ey
@@HamilcarBarca-jm3ey My understanding is that when people were asked whether they had a "can opener" & everyone said "no" that they were slangily referring to an anti tank bazooka
You call market garden cautious?
War films and TV shows are never good references for historical accuracy. There is usually an agenda
Oh dear, if only snooty Brits had listened to clever Yanks, they wouldn't have died. Meanwhile, if clever Yanks hadn't kept crawling along in front of out of control tanks, they wouldn't have got run over.
And you guys wonder why.
The American movie men always depict us Brits as knobheads
They do have a scene with Royal Marines that is positive if you want me to clip it
Maybe watch "A Bridge Too Far." British paras depicted as courageous, dry wit, excellent soldiers, determined, and so on.
I felt this scene was stupid. No Tanker regardless of country is going to save a building over getting the draw on a stationary enemy tank.
Meh. They’ve been depicting the average German soldier, pilot or sailor as either blockheaded, cold and emotionless or as sadistic, civilian murdering lunatics bent on world domination, little of which is true at all in the grand scheme.
This propaganda machine has been running for over a century, dating back to WW1.
@poemarnan5498 if I had been crewed in that Sherman I'd have turned around looked up at the officer and punched him in the bo**ocks for saying that 😂
A scene that let's down BoB. The DUKE armoured forces wouldn't have behaved like this. Always grates
You will find that in many US movies and Series about WW2 We are almost always shown as incompetent, bumbling idiots
@@jacktattis Not entirely. It's just said the British were idiots in terms of tanking. The tanks were used more like mobile artillery under the British.
@@honkhonk8009 Four of the British Tanks in WW2 were classed as Infantry Tanks
That is what they were designed to do. Support the Infantry.
The Germans changed all that.
@honkhonk8009
In real life the days fighting (September 20th) was actually a success for the British tanks and US paras. They worked well together and pushed Panzer Brigade 107 away from the Son Bailey bridge and then back from Nuenen, removing 107 as a threat to the Eindhoven sector.
@@jacktattisnah. In BofB they were fine
This combat scene is incorrect for a couple of reasons, this incident actually took place just outside the village in the open and there wasn't any Shermans there, the British unit that was there was a troop of A Sqn the 15th/19th The Kings Royal Hussars, they were the armoured recce regt from the British 11th Armoured Division attached to the 506th PIR, they were equipped with the A27(M) Cromwell and the A30 Challenger, as an after thought I served in the 15/19 Hussars in the 70s-80s.
but have you been there.....have you ?
@@MakeSomeNoisePlaylists Poor American
Watch Liveth For Evermore's video on this battle. It DID in fact contain Sherman Tanks of 'B' Squadron, 44 RTR. I had a relative serve in this unit that was K.I.A just weeks prior to this engagement. You were correct with the first part, however. They were engaged by PAKs and other SPG's, etc on the run in. But the 15/19 either came here prior to or following the engagement itself. They were in the general vicinity at the time, but not part of this particular battle.
At least they got the divisional flash right for the tank :)
A History of the 44th Royal Tank Regiment 1939-1945, Part III Northwest Europe 1944-1945, pages 160/161, by Major General G.C. Hopkinson.
"" Contact was established with the 101st, orders for the next day were received and from that moment on the battle for the road (i.e Hell's Highway) began. Little or nothing was known of the enemy but there were definitely tanks east of the road and south of the canal at Zon. The plan therefore for the 20th was to ensure that this area was cleaned up and that the road and bridge over the canal remained open. At first light, C Squadron moved forward up the main road and soon contacted the enemy, consisting of infantry and self propelled guns on the east of the road. Meanwhile, B Squadron, with 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, had moved out of Eindhoven, directed on Nunen. A squadron of 15/19th Hussars was to come down from the north and link up with C Squadron whilst the Royals filled in the gaps with armoured car patrols.
By 10.00 hours the engagement was pretty general all along the front. C Squadron were having a brisk armour piercing battle just east of the road but had driven the enemy infantry away and put paid to a couple of self-propelled guns. 15/19th Hussars were also heavily engaged at Nederwetten. B Squadron on the right were in Opwetten and had smartened up a couple of MK IV tanks and were moving on towards Nunen. It was obvious from the amount of flak going up that the enemy was in pretty good strength. Nevertheless a continuous stream of traffic was once more going up the road and our objective had been achieved. C Squadron was therefore ordered to proceed to St Oedenrode and come under command of 501 Parachute Infantry Regiment. B Squadron had meantime bumped into trouble in their approach to Nunen. Lieut. Benton's troop losing a couple of tanks.
As it was by now obvious that Nunen was held in strength, A Squadron were called forward and a double flank attack was planned. Traffic jams caused some delay but by 1700 hours the attack went in with A Squadron on the left and B Squadron on the right. Two more Mk IV tanks and some half tracks were accounted for then failing light intervened and the attack was called off but not before it was firmly established that the enemy were withdrawing. The Regiment therefore went into leaguer at Eindhoven. Identifications proved that the enemy formation was 107 Panzer Brigade"
Die Serie war eine der besten die ich bis jetzt gesehen habe ❤
HBO did a great job making this series
Stimmt!
Hogan's Heroes is way better.
Schade das cromwell zerstört wurde😔
That guy went to the Wile E. Coyote School Of Running Away From Things.
The British tank scene grates with me too. But I have to admit what a WW2 Canadian tank squadron leader ( and post war maj.general) told me, which was the Americans were better tankers in terms of movement and mass. British ( and therefore Canadian) useage was to use tanks in small " penny packets" . "Our high command really didnt understand how to use tanks." "Use them in penny packets, lose them in penny packets."
Ironic. Considering that the Brits were the 1st to "experiment" with, and recognize the "tanks" potential. Circa WWI
@@marstuv5068 Yes. I have read about the Brits in North Africa: their use of tanks divided into two schools. The cavalry regiments went gallivanting around independently. The Royal Tank Rgt were more disciplined. Montgomery brought them into line ,made them follow the doctrine: tanks at the service of, and the pace of infantry, reduced, in effect, to mobile, or mounted artillery, largely by the ubiquity and excellence of German anti tank weaponry.In Normandy, British tankers were especially gunshy, despite much higher infantry losses and high Sherman survivability. The Desert Rats, the 7th Division, were also battled fatigued.
@@steveweatherbe Oh go to buggery Gun Shy?????The force that chased Rommel 1500 miles to Tunisia only to find the US Third Army had run away at Kasserine. And had to be saved by those gunshy Brits
And later in France DDAY on when the Brits and Canadians tankies faced 70% of the German Panzers in France
And that 2 US Armies were taken over by Montgomery to straighten the Bulge when your troops were not doing so good . Oh and asked to by Eisenhower
@@jacktattis Right, it was just an accident Germany was just a few miles from Alexandria on 1 October 1942.
Which tanks did Monty have for "his victory" over Rommel ?
Which tanks did the US have at Kasserine and why ?
621st Radio Intercept "There was also too much chatter on the British radio nets-gossiping really-and no real radio discipline. Another bad British habit was too much "cc’ing" of messages instead of simply leaving these addresses off of messages that did not directly concern them. From just one message, Seebohm could learn all the out stations (subordinate units) to the control station (commanding unit). He could combine that with a captured codebook and/or good traffic analysis, and a British order of battle could be built up over time."
@@jacktattis It is a well established fact that the British had consistently failed to make proper use of tanks. In Africa, they would often send their tanks in waves, which would negate their numerical superiority. It took a lot of time for the British to realize that the German way of using tanks as an armored fist was the better doctrine.
Why is it after every battle American soldiers always look like they've been to the hair salon!
Hair and Makeup. Models only
the ironic thing is the actor playing the American soldier is actually British
Most of them were British actors
Lock Stock. Soap.
Jagdpanther! I've been in love for 30 years. Ever since Panzer General II. Got my hands on a Mark V Panther in Cherkassy, Ukraine. That's as close as I'll get I'm sure
Wow i wish I could see them up close for real
There is one in Sinsheim technik museum in Germany. Was there. 10/10
@@___Jan___ Cool. I need to go to Europe and see the tanks
The Jagdpanther shown here is not a real one...Who knows what is really under the wolf's fur.
There is a real one in the German Tank Museum Munster.
@aszon85 thanks another comment said it was a hetzer dressed up to look like a Jagdpanther
This is what happens when you let Rimmer command a tank...
😂😂😂
Like it
2:33 Oh Smeg
I love how the tanks have sub
But the best kine i ever read was from Jagdpanther
Say hello to my little friend XD
Thanks I added that little quote. I might add more for fun.
Montgomery was criticised by American brass for being cautious, but he'd seen the massive loss of life in WWI which American Army missed out on. By comparison the US generals seemed not too bothered by casualty figures and didn't rotate divisions out of the front line enough.
"The National Army Museum conducted a poll in 2011 to determine Britain’s greatest general. Montgomery’s name was not among the finalists."
Bernard Law Montgomery - Military History - Oxford page
The Battle of Belleau Wood (1-26 June 1918) was a major battle that occurred during the German spring offensive in World War I, near the Marne River in France. The battle was fought between the U.S. 2nd (under the command of Major General Omar Bundy) and 3rd Divisions along with French and British forces against an assortment of German units including elements from the 237th, 10th, 197th, 87th, and 28th Divisions.
@@nickdanger3802And ?
@@nickdanger3802 The Battle of Belleau Wood only had two American divisions? lol
19 British divisions fought in the Battle of Amiens and that lasted only four days
Meuse-Argonne
Goofball Garden finally exposed that Monty was slow because he's incompetent. Just accept it.
Yanks,oue so-called 'friends and allies' never pass up on a chance to diss we Brits.Thank God for the Ivans!
They were really unlucky to come across a Jagdpanther because the Germans only produced 413 of them. Encountering a tiger I wasn't exactly easy either with only 1,347 produced tiger I tanks!
They weren't even there at the time. There were mostly Pz IV's and StuG's supporting Infantry at this point. Further North around St. Oedenrode there were Panthers swanning around causing a lot of issues for the British and Americans.
@@apropercuppa8612 Yes, Panthers were a problem, but there were too few of them to survive against the Western allies and the Soviets.
@@GreatPolishWingedHussars Of course. Too few and too late in the war too.
@@apropercuppa8612 Yes that is right!
I take it from you handle you are interested in the Poles. FYI there is a book, a jumped up doctoral thesis IMHO, called Black Devils Across Eurrope, A Doomed Odyssey, about 1 Polish Armoured Div. I cant say it is a good book, but it is a sincere attempt at relating there history in English , focussing on one regiment esp.
Maddening, but beyond that, the Brits had intelligence of large German forces in the area, but discounted it.
No they did not. They correctly knew the German forces in the area AT THE TIME the paras dropped.
What made the difference was that the Germans were quickly able to send in armoured reinforcements from Germany in the days that followed. There was no intelligence about these as they were all in Germany.
In this battle it was Panzer Brigade 107. This unit was deep inside Germany when the paras dropped on the 17th September. It was then deployed to the Netherlands, where it started to arrive 2 days later on the 19th. This battle took place on the 20th. This was the 4th day of Operation Market Garden.
Note the 'commander' of the Cromwell behind, just calmly watching the world go by from the loader/operator's hatch. The commander's hatch, with vision blocks, is on the other side. Little mistakes like that annoy this keyboard warrior! 🙂
I know it's a little overdone with the British, but the 82nd contacted an amazed 30 Corps not with radios but simply using a telephone from an exchange that they'd captured. The Germans considered American armor much more daring and hell-for-leather than their British counterparts; at least according to Cornelius Ryan interviewing actual veterans.
Jesus Ryan a Anglophobe through and through
Oh yes Cornelius Ryan, who's claim to fame is a Hollywood film, such accuracy 😂 ( *sarcasm* )
@@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- Yes he would not have Christopher Lee in the Movie for some reason
Well Sherman vs Jadpanther would usually ends like this
That Jagdpanther does look stealthy dangerous ☠️
Sherman had no change against German most formidable tank destroyer.
@@Allen-v8v You need multiple Shermans and good supply lines
bring up the Sherman Firefly
Gnawed😂❤
The kid in the background saying “ he dead “😂
That tank commander was for shite, I for one would have jumped down and said show me. Ace commanders dismount and scout the area especially when supported by infantry.
Good idea. I did not think about that.
A real British tank commander who had survived this late into the war would not have hesitated to keep firing his main gun until the whole place was flattened.
Lesson learned from this: Never let Ego in the way of Victory
Lessen learned don’t take tv as historically accurate.
So many military experts all on one youtube page!
Yeah, if they're so pissed then they should make their own series.
@@darthracer777 Yeah, i'll make a tv series full of lies
@@obvious-troll save your money and make your own series. I'm sure it will be epic.
Yes ! Take a look on 3th edward. He´s the only miltatary expert and only man who knows about the war, the universe and the meaning of life,.....and so on !
Well done the 101st, at least they weren't the 82nd at Nijmegen and their efforts of NOT taking the bridge early enough. @@Muffell-os1om
Americans sometimes have a tendency to try to satisfy the biases of the fellow countrymen by showing the soldiers of other countries to not be quite as good in the films and TV movies they make. The reason: Better box office.
The fact is, all countries have good soldiers and poor soldiers... usually a result of their training and motivation and leadership.
We might not think of Mongolians as the best soldiers in the world right now, but around 1200, they were by far the best at warfare... conquering a larger part of the world than any army has ever done... with the advantage of a military Genius in Genghiz Khan pointing the way and despite often being heavily outnumbered by their opponents. (not excusing their barbaric tactics... but it was Medieval times)
The soldiers in WWII who generally excelled were those who were volunteers. So for example, the German SS were excellent, as were the British and American Paratroopers... also the Canadians in general... as they were an all volunteer force pretty much to the end. The Australians and New Zealanders also fought extremely well even though they were partially conscripted.
Training, tactics and equipment was also a big factor... the Germans clearly had the edge in those elements at the start of the war, but as it moved on, they gradually started to lose the training and tactical advantage... although they generally retained excellent equipment. But even the SS didn't do well at times... as for example the Battle of the Ardennes... when they were led by a poor commander in Sepp Dietrich. By that time they also had a lot of semi-trained recruits.
Of course 'quantity is its own quality' as some Rand department honcho once said, and having a tank rather than no tank is a big advantage... the Allies usually had a tank... the Germans often not. (counting SPG's and TD's too) And the often underrated Sherman 75mm, although it was inferior in Tank vs Tank duels, was a better anti-infantry weapon than a Panther or Tiger... it could fire more shells more quickly with its autoloader, and could carry more shells as well... and had more MG's. The upgraded Sherman 76mm was a very good tank... with a gun which was just behind the Panther's, but with much better reliability. Same applies for the Sherman Firefly with its 17 lber... a gun slightly better than the Panther's and the Tiger I's... same reliability as the rest of the Shermans. The much vaunted King Tiger, had a great gun... but it was so prone to breakdown, on average 1/2 of those assigned to a given Panzer Regiment would be broken down by the end of a few day's fighting.
What happened to Kampfgruppe Pieper is a lesson in tank effectiveness... Joachim Pieper had a force which was heavy in Tiger II's, but found himself boxed in and surrounded by more nimble Allied tank forces... in the culminating battle at La Glieze his Tigers were attacked by a force of mainly Sherman 76mm tanks, who disabled or destroyed a large part of his force... Peiper was forced to abandon the remainder of his Tigers and escape with his tank crews on foot.
Even the lowly Sherman 75mm could be dangerous, if it had an experienced commander and crew. One French Canadian tank commander from the 27th Armor Regiment, (Sherbrooke Fusiliers) recollected that when he saw a Panther or Tiger, he would not engage it with AP rounds, he knew they were useless. Instead he would fire White Phosphorus rounds at it... even if the deadly phosphorus didn't trickle down through a hatch inside the tank, the smoke and fire often panicked the German crew and they would abandon their tank. But Panthers and Tigers were rarely encountered... most of the time their armor opponent was a StG-111 Self Propelled Gun... by far the most heavily produced German armor vehicle.
The first Tiger I've seen that's the size of a T-34 with a 50mm gun on it. 🤣
That´s an american fairytale from Hanks and Spielberg !😂😂😂🤣
I am like 90% sure there were no working tigers when this show was produced.
Interesting that the tank Randleman is crawling away from has a picture of a bull on the back.
Completely ridiculous scene but that's what the audience wants
It was the way the soldiers wrote about it in their memoirs.
And numerous soldiers recalled events from that particular situation. Soooooooooo......yeah.....
@@gherzome Allied tank crews were terrified of German armor and say what you want about the British being pompous there were not stupid like this
This is Hollywood nothing more nothing less
@@gherzome Believe it then even if it is ridiculous
@@rankoorovic7904
You have an opinion that it's ridiculous.
The soldiers were actually there.
@@gherzome British army walking into their death like lemmings is ridiculous
Not every soldiers diary or generals memoir are true just ask Erih Von Manstein
Not to mention the fact that the British army is trying to minimize the destruction of property but the RAF was maximizing the destruction of cities the whole war
There's a big language barrier here. The English-speaking tank commander couldn't understand the soldier speaking in American.
What is the movie name ?
Aus 30 meter Entfernung würde der Schuss wahrscheinlich hinten wieder rauskommen
The side armor is softer. And trapped inside burning tank. Scary
@@jeretso auf die Entfernung spielt es wahrscheinlich keine große Rolle, da wäre auch eine 7, 5 high velocoty Kanone des panther von jeder Seite durchgegangen
One thing to remember here - is that this is a TV Dramatization - not a Documentary. It is *_BASED_* on Ambrose's book but that doesn't mean it is 100% accurate according to the book - and - Ambrose on occasion ... made mistakes.
I wouldn't care to speculate on *_EXACTLY_* what really happened based on this.
Over all - it's fairly good as TV goes - but while some of it may be very accurate and some of it less so - we don't have the facilities to determine which is which.
Those of us who've read actual Histories of the battle may be somewhat better informed - but - that doesn't mean other historians don't have their problems too.
The one thing I do know - is that the Germans made repeated attempts to cut the Allied Lines going up the road - and on some occasions - succeeded for a time but were eventually driven back.
So - the exact vehicles being depicted here - _may_ well have been based more on the vehicles the series makers had access to - than to what was really there at this engagement.
I do believe that the makers of the series did *_TRY_* and be authentic - but that doesn't mean they always were. In contrast to most of Hollywood - where they don't even try - BoB is fairly good.
.
Ambrose is a Fraud.
Except we do know the type of vehicles. B Squadron 44th Royal Tank Regiment only had Shermans while Panzer Brigade 107 had Panthers. They did have Jagdpanzer IV L/70 too but they hadn't arrived from the detrainment area and were not at Nuenen.
A few days later near Veghel the 44th RTR and 101st Airborne encountered Jagdpanthers of Schwere Panzerjager-Abteilung 559 however.
Always so clean and shaved... how could it be? 😐
Great observation. They do have scenes of them shaving but you know hollywood hair and makeup crew.
@@jeretso Every movie or TV series repeats this mistake endlessly. After the first combat, every Infantryman will have his uniform stained full of mud or masonry; a few weeks later that uniform will be badly worn, ripped open here and there, and all gear will look worn and soiled just as it's user. I believe it was in the movie _Platoon_ that I saw for the only time how a soldier should look after prolonged combat, maybe because Oliver Stone fought in Nam. Too bad he is a Putin Fan.
Besides, I believe it is much simpler and faster - although innacurate - to use brand new uniforms and gear instead of spending a huge lot of time making them look worn and soiled, which is not easy to do convincingly.
Discipline. A soldier must be always clean and good shaved. Sloppiness leads to depravity, depravity leads to dwindling discipline, dwindling discipline leads to reduced combat power.
In contemporary stories was often minded that Wehrmacht & SS checked their uniforms for correct fitting before battle. They even closed all proposed knobs.
@duartesimoes508 To be fair, in this scene they had comparitively recently landed in Holland after refitting in England so, relatively speaking...
officers are supposed to shave every day
tried to watch this but when you have parachutists behind enemy lines on Dday sitting in an abandoned farmhouse
talking shite without even lowering their voices and no sentry put out you think to yourself why am I watching this.
At least the British didn’t get overrun in Ardennes wonder why
A consequence of the Broad front strategy.
America won the battle. We wouldn't make a big WW2 movie about an evacuation. A last stand like the Alamo yes, but not an evacuation
None of Montgomerys armies were ever thrown back into a retreat.
On 28th November Montgomery warned Eisenhower that the American line in front of the Ardennes was too weak and thinly held and should be strengthed. Eisenhower did nothing.
@@lyndoncmp5751 No the Brits only surrendered to a bunch of outnumbered little men on bicycles in the Far East. Let's not act like the Brit land forces had a sparkling record in WW2. Rommel was 100x the tactician Monty was. The Brits won in Africa because they were in a superior defensive position at El Alamein and they had time to amass hundreds of American tanks.
@@donaldshotts4429
1. Montgomery wasn't in the Far East. The Americans lost the Philippines just as the British lost Malaya. The Americans weren't fighting the Germans at the time. Japan was their focus. The British were more concerned with the Germans and Italians closer to home.
2. Even before El Alamein Montgomery defeated Rommel at Alam el Halfa without numerical superiority. Force ratios were roughly the same at Alam el Halfa. It was Montgomery's new tactics that made the difference. Montgomery was far more strategically savvy than Rommel. Rommel never understood logistics or the overall picture as well. Rommels level was really divisional or corps. Montgomery was a true army and army group commander.
3. Montgomery was strategically brilliant. He correctly predicted El Alamein to last around 2 weeks and Normandy to last around 3 months. No other commander in WW2 would have correctly predicted the length of both battles.
The German vehicle turned from a "Panther" into a "Hunting "Panther".
Hmmm, I know why they did it but I don't believe any troops anywhere run around in groups like they do.
They do. They’re called squads.
You think the Ugliest tank in World War 2 is the M4 Sherman Tank?
Answer: Nope. Its just the honorable mention. The ugliest tank during World war 2 is the British Mk IV (A22) Churchill.
@biboyumandar1538 At least there's the Comet I (A34) though 😁
@@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- Nah ! Come is still underperforming.
@@biboyumandar1538 Who says anything about performance? Your comment was about aesthetics. The Comet is a cool looking tank and with the 17 pounder gun it was more than capable of knocking out heavy German armour.
@@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- Still, its performance is not enough to outmatch the Panzer IV and Panther. It can defeat a Panzer III though.
@@biboyumandar1538 Nah it was comparable to the Panther and had a better gun with the 77mm.
There is a photo of a Kampfgruppe Schulze Tiger Tank based at Fallingboste having been destroyed by a British Comet from the 3rd Royal Tank Regiment.
Ordered not to destroy civilian houses needlessly. Looks like allied troops are fighting with their hands tied up behind. While Nazis don't care. Concern for the public relation costs them(allied army) dearly.
Grant chased around by the dead tank. A kind of funny scene in a serious battle.
Actually, NO. The Allies used literally enormous amounts of mortars, heavy artillery and bombing where ever they could to destroy German fortifications, supply lines and center, command centers and everything in between.
Just in France alone, more than 67000 civilians died from Allied bombing in WW2.
In Normandy, German commanders noticed than even on a 'quiet' day at the front, the average German division would receive 3000 artillery shells on their positions just to keep them busy.
The Allied forces had overwhelming firepower and just it as much as they could to minimize their own loses. They were often fighting experienced troops who used excellent weaponry and tactics, so why would you NOT use what you have? The goal was to defeat the enemy with as little losse to yourself as possible.
アメリカの空挺の兵隊さんは本当にタフだなあ、カッコいい❤
Scene doesn't make sense. If you can't destroy the building you go the other way around and get in the back of the Tiger. Wasn't even looking in that direction when moving. Either Hollywood or a very dumb tank commander.
Small town built for horses probably only had 1 main street. The other streets would not fit tank. Hollywood probably had orders to make British commander look bad lol
That's how it went down supposedly, but who knows
@@jeretso lol.. aye.. "I say chaps, I'm glad those Americans are here to show us how it's done what!?" which British soldiers said all the time.. honest ;)
Well you nearly got it. Hollywood making the Brits look useless as they always do which flies in the face of actual combat history.
Still got to feed Yank egos right?
Another Germans can't shoot Speilberg flop
Was Winters involved with this show? If so, he must have been truly disappointed when it came out.
I found the extraneous noise & editorial comments on this clip to be annoying
Thanks for watching. Its on HBO and Netflix.
It would have been better not to show the Capt of the jagpater. He just kills the look,, and you noticed how small it is
maybe it was a baby jagdpanther, you know with time it would grow up
The proportions are totally fine, the Jagdpanther still is a Casemate. Maybe its even a real Jagdpanther.
I heard Europe has a lot of tank museums so It could be real. JAGDPanther is designed to be small , sneak around and hide behind a Tiger.
@@jeretso man... it jagdpanther had panther chasis, and panther was huuuuge
@@viz12345 I will look for a Panther clip.
I can appreciate how much work the FX crew put into making the tanks believable, but you need a show-specific eye to get a positive ID on some of these tanks.
They're supposed to be Sherman Fireflies, upgunned Sherman tanks .
@@reynaldoflores4522; Not that thing that is supposed to be a Tiger. It does have some Tiger-like traits, but it obviously isn't.
@@jvcyt298 They've never had a faux Tiger in a film that was convincing to someone that knows what one looks like, but that's a tall order. You're never going to believe this, but the most convincing fake tiger ever in a film IMO was in Dead Snow 2: Red vs. Dead. Its a silly movie, but the (fake) Tiger is well worth watch. Better than the ones in Kelly's Heroes, Saving Private Ryan, etc.
If you can spot the Tiger and Panther tank parts in the Millennium Falcon, they're going to have a hard time fooling you with a mock up tank.
Its just a TV show made for drama , entertainment and to make money. I wouldn't take it too seriously.
Thanks some comments take my simple video capture too serious lol.
..just like your entertaining comment
Perhaps this tank platoon commander has supposed to be the Brit’s version of CPT Sobel?
Yes or Lt. Dike
This scene did not happen.
Its a Hollywood story based on letters
As a Hollywood screen writer said to me once " I'm not making a documentary "
Exactly, Liveth For Evermore has already debunked this crap!
Fog of war or fog or stupidity, you decide, or perhaps one in the same
Fog of war then soldier writes a foggy letter weeks later which the Hollywood writers cherry pick details decades later. I cant believe people are still watching and commenting after 5 months. Thanks for comment!
Very interesting German tank. 2:50 - it has a turret and in 3:14 it morphs into some kind self propelled howitzer of some sort.
Those are 2 different tanks working together. First was Tiger. Second looks like Jagdpanther
@@jeretso Except Jagdpanthers were 45 tons. I think that's a little Hetzer made up as a Jagdpanther
@donaldshotts4429 no wonder it was small and the commander looked big. Thanks
Despite the incompetence of needlessly wasting two tanks. “Sorry just realized that was a Jagdpanther not a Stug so I came back to edit my comment” That Stug III would have wrecked them regardless if the Sherman had engaged them first. On the eastern front, they would have had two Stug III’s paired with a Panther as a stop gap measure. Soviets had a rough time due to that. They are like a pack of velociraptors. All your attention is focused on the heavy or medium tank and those little low profile stugs with their high Velocity guns just absolutely tear you apart. Stug III is the deadliest vehicle of WW2. Absolutely insane how well they functioned for such a small investment. “Also to my knowledge, you wouldn’t have seen a Jadgpather paired with a Tiger tank prior to the battle of the bulge.”
"Stug III is the deadliest vehicle of WW2"
Tiger had the highest kill ratio of any tank in WW2 and the Elefant/Ferdinand had the highest kill ratio of any vehicle, which makes them both more deadly than the Stug. The Stug had more kills because there were simply far more of them built.
And there would have been the Firefly with the Brit Troop
@@lyndoncmp5751 It did not help them They were beaten badly
@jacktattis
But the allies suffered far more losses in beating them, so they weren't "beaten badly" to be honest.
@@lyndoncmp5751 the western allies absolutely stomped Germany. This is a really hard way to put this. Yet, we had units like the 101st airborne that made it through the entire European theater. In the evacuation of Normandy, the Germans suffered anywhere from 30-70 thousand KIA and Patton alone captured over half a million Germans in his blitz through France. Germany was completely routed in the field. German casualties were higher throughout the battle of France and the invasion of Germany. Market Garden did have more allied causalities but that was a failed campaign in a large theater of war.
This scene contains nothing but a bunch of LIES. To see what really happened, go to *Forgotten Heroes of Band of Brothers: The Battle of Nuenen | September 1944*
....then make your own movie about it.
@@darthracer777 I don't need to, the evidence that contradicts this stupid scene is already on here to find.
@@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- LOL....then why watch it if you hate it? Historical productions always take some liberties. It's based on events, not the events themselves. I knew that when I first watched BoB twenty years ago.
Helluva TV series! 👍🏻
Utter nonsense ! No such order was given, nor ever would have been. Thy should have had the tank commander in a top hat wearing a monocle just in case the watching public didn't quire get the message - brave GIs and silly ass English.
Halo the best movie/its my intha dasc to see you/ tha long movie ❤
American fairy tale
Where's the fairy tale? This depicts one of the few times in the war US airborne got thrown backwards.
@@TheSaturnV No it doesn't. The British rolled in supporting the US Para's to screen the town. They got hit hard, fell back towards Eindhoven with the rest of their Squadron and reported the incident back to the superiors. The whole mission was basically a probe, looking for the enemy. Contact was made, losses were taken and they fell back before dark. The next day, the Germans buggered off and a large force was sent to clear the area out.
Cool !!!
Bullshit scene - If somebody says there is tank behind the corner, you would not drive to check it against German tanks. I think this scene is only to underline that operation was British planned, but I do not agree that series put ordinarily British soldier to be a Jackass
Geil, mit Kopfhörer hört man noch die Musiker vom Nachbarn, Kind oder sonstwem. In einem Moment klingt es so, als käme die Ehefotze mit 'ner Rascheleinkaufstüte zurück
I would like a low brick wall around my front lawn.
The eye of the tiger
it's the thrill of the fight
Great action set pieces.
In market garden a american airborne captain after his troops had crossed the waal
River in small boats tried to
Get the 30 corps tanks moving
To arnhem met resistance from the tank commander
Myth. Never happened and the American para exaggerated.
In reality only 5 tanks got across the bridge that night and 2 of them were damaged. Their orders were only to take the bridge, which they did, and guard it to stop the Germans taking it back that night. They suceeded in their mission.
The brits did tend to be more
Cautious than the americans
Whose crossing of the
Waal River seemed suicidal!
@@angloaust1575
I can argue the Americans were cautious in the previous days. They should have taken the bridge on the 17th. On the 18th they pulled out of Nijmegen and didnt get back in there until the British tanks arrived to help them.
The river crossing happened on the 20th because the 82nd knew they let down XXX Corps up in the first days by not having the Nijmegen bridge captured and ready.
And let's be frank it was the caution of the American USAAF generals Brereton and Williams who refused to fly double missions on day one (they didnt want American Troop Carrier Command crews to get tired) that put the paratroopers in these situations to begin with. They were forced to dilute their attacking power to guard the drop and landing zones for subsequent drops, which Brereton decided to spread over 3 days. Due to caution.
¡ Traumatica experiencia , !
So much for “spreading out”
In order to get Lots of glory, gotta let the big bad germans win just a wee bit, right Spielberg ?
don't they have any budget for how British people speak.
Its a film dont agenda the hero's
@@julianducros8952 Haven't watched it just wondering why the portrayal of us English hasn't progressed any since Dick Van Dyke in 1964.
アメ公がやられるシーン！大好き😮
Thank you for watching
Oh yes. What a great heroic battle in which nine soldiers died (both sides combined). It surely ranks next to Stalingrad. By the way, Panzerbrigade 107 had no Tiger, no Jagdpanther and no Sturmgeschütze. But don't tell those silly Amis, they believe Adolf Trump is their new Führer.
Panzer Brigade 107 had Panthers and Jagdpanzer IV L/70.
Further up the road near Veghel Schwere Panzerjager-Abteilung 559 had Jagdpanthers.
Even further up the road at Arnhem, Schwere Kompanie Hummel had Tiger Is and Schwere Panzer Abteilung 506 had King Tigers.
I guess the germans didn't get the message about unessasary damage lilo
Binos at 50metres ???????
No unnecessary destruction of property. Sounds familiar in Israel... Look what happens to the poor tank. Germans would have had no such hesitation
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Are Jagdpanther and stug the same?
No. I was not sure what it was so I put stug or jagd
@@jeretso but both vehicle have mounted gun at the front, no turret at all. Both are tank destroyers.
The soldier said he’s ‘to the left’.....should have said ‘to the right’
Thanks you are right. 😁
The Infantry supposed to bounce tracer off enemy armor
lol the british
In real life they actually cleared Panzer Brigade 107 away from the Eindhoven area that day.
Donde las puedo ver completas a las series?alguien sabe
What's that hand signal when Bull covers his eyes?
I think he saw the enemy tank too and signaled an ambush hiding around the corner
Yes, he's indicated to the Sgt (forget his name) that their armor is blind to the threat they're approaching and that he has to warn him.