My grandfathers B-17 was shot down over the English Channel on the way back from bombing Germany. A pair of BF 109s followed them home. Shot the airplane down. Half of the crew was killed, my grandfather and a few of the survivors floated on the dead airplane in the Channel until a British destroyer saw them and picked them up. Top turret gunner, Richard Spears.
I thank your grandfather For his service to this great nation of ours. Truly the best generation in our nation's history. Thanks for sharing your family story with us. God bless America and all those who have fought and are currently fighting for democracy and freedom.
Münster - my home town. They are still finding several duds in the city of Münster, every year. Whole districs are evacuated and closed down, for the defusing and removal. Many of those bombs have a detonator on a chemical basis, that still works today. Thats why these are still as dangerous as in 1945. Every few years a bomb goes off "accidently" and kills some people. An estimated 200.000 to 300.000 tons of duds are buried in the soil of Germany, today and its still going to take decades to remove those. I thought, this may be interesting info in general. Sorry for my bad english. Greetings from Germany!
Danke. Thank you for writing any english at all, and for the interesting information. I've travelled for business to Germany many times from the USA and I really enjoy the people and culture. Let us wish for today's enemies to one day be friendly as our countries are. It's hard to imagine after such terrible wars but here we are. Oh yeah - I enjoyed Münster too for an evening. Our equipment supplier took us there for a nice tour with a historical actor and then dinner. Nice city!
@@dunjak111 Thank you, I hope that you do visit the US. In our great distances you will find a lot to see. Next trip is to Germany, then Poland by train, the Baltic states by bus and Finland by ferry. I love the culture and history of Europe and wish more Americans understood why it is so important that we stand with it today. Bis zu besseren Tagen!
There is still a band across France and Belgium where the armies stood stalemated four years. Artillery ammunition duds in the tens of thousands have been removed over the past century & more still turn up.
This was Robert 'Rosie' Rosenthal and crew's third mission. After 4 aircraft from the 100th had turned back due to mechanical failures, 13 aircraft from the 100th proceeded to the target. Only one aircraft made it to the target and successfully returned to base: Rosenthal's aircraft. This was the beginning of Rosenthal's legend. There was enough story there that the whole mini-series could have been just about Rosenthal and his crews.
@@winstonp.prescott3845 The Red Tails deserve all of the praise for what they did.... but the writers i feel did a disservice to them in this miniseries as they seemed to be 'thrown in' purely as an almost afterthought, just to appease the "inclusivity" crowd.
Yeah, they could've center the whole show around Rosenthal really. But I guess they had to shoehorn pretty boy Elvis and his friend to appease the straight white crowd.
@@The_Curious_Catgiven the amount of material needed to cover and the fact that it was made during COVID really did hamper the production. In both Band of Brothers and the Pacific, there’s a lot less material to try to fit in. Easy Company was active from 1944-45. Not really that long in the grand scheme of things in the war. They took part in D-Day, Market Garden, The Bulge, and then you have the end of the war. The narrative is easily craftable because of the timeline of events. The same is true for the Pacific as well. Yes, the timespan is longer, but 1st Marine Division was only involved in four battles in the Pacific (Guadalcanal, Cape Gloucester, Peleliu, and Okinawa). The division was decimated on Peleliu, which is why it has such a heavy focus in the series and why the 1st Marine Division wasn’t put back into battle until 1945. It’s another easilu craftable narrative. Now, take a look at the combat history of the 100th Bomb Group. From 1943-1945, they went on 306 bombing missions. And given the high attrition rate, crafting any sort of narrative is going to leave out/condense events to make the narrative flow better.
I worked with disabled vets, many from this group, many years ago when a lot of these guys were still alive. This clip is so accurate to their stories it's given me goosebumps. The parts falling from the sky, the time slowdown as the fighter past, all details I heard firsthand.
Did you know that if you go on the 100th foundation website you could look him up in the personnel files. I’ve browsing it and looking up all the real people.
My mother, around 11yo at the time, experienced the raid in a cellar. So we both had a parent on each end of the raid. I do hope your father made it home in good health.
My father was a navigator in the 100th. I grew up knowing that if there was ever a WWII battle showing on TV, especially an air battle, I needed to quickly change the channel. The wide open sky would cause him to panic. He obviously had lifelong PTSD. He'd rarely talk about what happened to him, but during 9/11 when we all saw bodies falling out of buildings, he said that bodies fell out of the sky when he was over Germany. I had wondered what he meant, but these kinds of scenes might explain what he was saying. Later in life when I told him I was going to visit Nuremberg and Regensburg Germany, he said that it was all bombed out. When I was of draft age, my lottery number was low. The Vietnam draft ended, but before we knew that he got mad and said how they had told him that WWII was the war to end all wars. He was an unknown hero, as were the many others who helped defeat the Third Reich.
Would love to hear more. My uncle died (Aged 21) when his Lancaster was hit on the return from a Cologn bombing raid in 1943. He is buried in Antwerp. x
It’s hard to tell on the screen but when you see a real B-17 you’ll see that the pilot/copilot are almost sitting shoulder to shoulder. I worked in a war museum so I saw one every day while I was there. Brave men in close quarters.
It’s hard to tell on the screen but when you see a real B-17 you’ll see that the pilot/copilot are almost sitting shoulder to shoulder. I worked in a war museum so I saw one every day while I was there. Brave men in close quarters.
My dad was a co-pilot of a B-17 in WWII. At 22, he lived through the action we’re seeing on screen. The losses were heavy. He flew 30+ missions, where you only had to do 25 to go home. He didn’t talk about the war much, except to say that he could eat breakfast with a fellow soldier, and then the guy wasn’t there the next day because he died in action.😢 I am proud to have his Distinguished Flying Cross. I’ll treasure it always ❤️🇺🇸
My uncle was a bombardier in Triangle A, same as portrayed here. He got shot down by German fighters on a bombing raid over Kassel, Germany. His 24th mission. He was 19. Joined up when he was 16. They were bombing the BMW fighter engine plant. The first run they didn't bomb because the target was hidden by a smoke screen. So they went around for a second run. The second run was always deadly for the airmen. But that was how they won the war - by just fighting it out.
My Dad's B-17 was shot down on this mission 10/10/1943. They were in the 385th BG. Right waist gunner and ball turret gunner were KIA. Dad was top turret gunner and became POW in Stalag 17b
ruclips.net/video/0uwNotXUoCE/видео.htmlsi=3RlPigc5B9jzUQZM 1943 was 81 years ago, just assuming you where born in 1943 81 or even 1950 you are 74, video shows you flying your dads model, you look to not be anywhere near 81... or 74, you look to be in your 40's, so your born in the 80's , the math doesnt add up, not that it matters... just an observation
My great uncle was shot down on this mission. His B17 was part of the 100th, 349th bomber squadron, and his plane was mentioned on Masters of the Air. He ended up in Stalag 17b.
Those raids significantly shortened the war saving millions of innocent people imprisoned in death and concentration camps. Didn't your grandmother tell you why those brave pilots had to be dragged through half of the world to Europe?
@@trzeciazona9608 Most of these bombing raids did not save anyone because they targeted inner cities and not military installations. The attacks only killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, including tens of thousands of women and thousands of children. But I'm sure that won't interest you either.
@@vidright you realize that you repeat nazi propaganda? All those bombings saved millions of people and significantly shortened the war. It is well established historical fact. Regarding your question, I pity those killed in the death camps, not their opressors and those opressors' families. You where not victims, but the main cause of this madness.
@@vidright you well realize that you repeat the same old lie and deny well established historical facts? BTW I pity those imprisoned in camps, not their opressors and those opressors' families. You where not victims but the main cause of this madness, and never try to argue otherwise.
Actually the B-17 could be quite maneuverable. They only flew straight and level for defense formation and the bomb run. But the planes were new, well maintained and the pilots in the late teens and twenties. So with the bombs gone and no group a good pilot could do everything but loops.
I had an uncle who flew in a Lancaster bomber for the RAF, and he was anything but a coward (like they were trying to portray them as in this show). His unit took incredible losses during the war, but they still got in those planes. I also had an American uncle who flew in a B17. I don't know what his MOS was in the plane, but the only thing he would ever say about the war was that one can not imagine the horror that you feel hearing your friends screaming as their planes fell out of the sky. He also commented to me once about how fanatical the German fighter pilots were. They were defending their homes, so who wouldn't be? All in all, these kids on both sides were brave, and they died like flies. War is a terrible thing. It pits one kid against another. They personally don't have a grudge against the other, but they have to fight to stay alive. I always treated our Iraqi prisoners with respect for this reason. They were doing what I would have done in their situation. These men came out to fight one of the best fighting forces in the world, and they did so with old and sometimes used up rifles. So they earned that respect.
Haven't watched this series, but if it portrays the Brit bomber crews as cowards that is BS. They were everything BUT cowards. Just look at their losses, and they STILL kept bombing.
They had fighter escorts but they only had enough fuel to protect them on part of the missions.Not till later like early 1944 did they get additional fuel tanks for Spitfires.I always remembered in Memphis Belle the guys saying goodbye "little friends" when they had to turn back.Unbielivable courage these men displayed!!
It was first the p-47 that escorted the b-17's aka the "jugg" it was very well armoured, reliable, good sustain heavy damage still return home and had good fuel range escorting bombers i think even back and forth but..... the p-47 was far less agile and slower then the bf 109 and the focke wulfs around 43 44 so american airforce indeed incorporated the p-51 mustang but this was far later on heavy losses where already sustained due to the fact that even if the bombers had p-47 escorts they where to slow climbed slow and didnt stand a chance against an good bf 109 pilot german airforce was leading for years in technology . Then the p-51 came and later on also fuel tanks that fully covered the journey. The spitfire had the same rolls royce motor with 2000 horse power of rolls but the p51 was still faster, better build aurodynamically. The p-51 was for a while the fastest plane on the earth with a speed of 750km an hour + heavy armament and a fast climber high altitude escort bomber fighter toghether with the p-38 twing engine boom 2x roll royce motor. Wich also escorted a lot of b17 missions countering the bf 110 high altitude fighter. Only after the p51 and especially the p51 red tails black division. bomber missions suffered much less casualties the black division performed the best in defending bomber missions. So after the commisioning of the p51 i think in 44 or 43 correct me if im wrong bombers missions where mainly a mixture of p51-s p47-s and p-38's. But ofcourse spitfires hurricanes, tempests, sea fires, and lot of other british models probably have seen action.
My father was assigned to USNATO in the 1980s so we lived in Belgium for a couple of years. My folks remember going to a small dinner party one evening, just them, the host family (English) and two other couples that were all friends. Dad was too young for WWII but was in the US Navy during the Korean conflict and flew a lot (not as pilot, but as meteorologist went up pretty often in the back seat); two of the other men there had flown in WWII, and all being diplomatic or military families, everyone had a lot of air miles under their belts so talk turned to experiences during flights. The German gentleman began to wax poetic about the beautiful interactions he used to see between moon, clouds, and water when flying at night, and how beautiful the moon looked reflecting off the English Channel... at which point it got very quiet, because everyone simultaneously realized that he was a Luftwaffe bomber pilot in WWII and the host was an RAF fighter pilot... (Eventually everyone sort of laughed it off, and the friendships continued until we returned Stateside a couple of years later.)
Donald pleaseance the british actor flew 62 bombing missions for the raf ..before becoming an actor ...he played the forger in the film The great escape ...
Un gran actor sin duda.un gran piloto le debemos mucho todos.hizo muy buenas películas 🎥 como muchos actores famosos por lo visto también lucho en la segunda guerra mundial..
I knew an old guy who had been a waist gunner on a B17 . Flew more than his 25 he said . He only remembered actually seeing his hits on one fighter in all the fights he had been in. Didn’t even know if that fighter went down or not. He said he was always too damn scared to worry much about anything except firing his gun.
Ex RAF mobile Comms, used to travel by C-130 to NATO exercises, used to stand by the reader right door, which had a window, see the English Channel dissapear & think, so from now, you are on your own….. & pray for those lost.Only going one way to, say, Italy….it was a long flight, & a long way down. Day or night …they were brave lads, all. respect to those that survived, regular prayers for those who did not.😊
My uncle was a first sergeant in the 8th Airforce. The top ball gunner in a B24 liberator in mid 44. His bomber crew flew a full 25 missions before being send home. My aunt said he never talked about his combat tour but she and my cousins said he had nightmares the rest of his life till the day he passed in 2003.
Physics: "Nah, you really can't... It just happens when the CGI artists have no idea how physics work." Also Physics: "In reality, that B-17 would have oversped and broken up in mid-air or got caught by that German fighter with his vastly tighter turning circle."
That is one of the problems with modern day film series, they feel the need to exaggerate the capabilities of everything at the expense of reality, read the autobiographies of the men that flew these missions and you will understand.
Can't remember exactly who said it but there's an interview with a German pilot where he talks about the tactics they used against bombers and how during a pass going through the middle of the formation was the safest place to be because the gunners wouldn't shoot for fear of hitting each other.
The combat box was designed to minimize that, but with all hell breaking loose it did happen. When you add up all the other things, 50cal friendly fire was almost irrelevant when compared to 88mm flak, 20mm cannon from 109 and 190 or simply other forts blowing up and taking others in the formation with them.
They all served. My buddy's dad was in -17s - he did his 25 over Europe. His granddad was a dough in the trenches in 1918. Mr. Burns next door was XO on a DE on the Atlantic convoy runs. My dad was CO of a DE in the Pacific. He kept it floating after being hit by a kamikaxi. Doc Howe was a battalion surgeon in the Philippines. My uncle who had lost two fingers to a motorcycle chain in the 30s was a PW camp guard. A hidh school history teacher, Herr Fuchs, was a 15 year old on the Russian front in January 1945. They all went where they were told to go and did the best they could to do a good job at what they were told to do. My buddies and I did the same later in Southeast Asia.
I have 39 months of combat as an Infantryman in Iraq and Afghanistan. My grandfather was a ball turret gunner with the 384th Bomb Group. I wouldn't trade places with him for anything. Those guys had spines of iron and balls of steal.
One mistake this series frequently makes is German fighters going through B17 formations at ultra close range. The Luftwaffe pilots quickly learned their 20 and 30mm cannons outranged the B17s 50 and 30 calibre guns. So they used to stay at range and snipe at the Bombers which greatly reduced their losses.
My maternal grandfather was a Lancaster pilot and Air Bomber. Didn't talk about it much, as he was a career Air Force pilot. Just another day at the office for him...
What got me here is how they see one plane ignite, explode, slam into the other one and all you can do is watch. Also, how badly they want the relief of seeing parachutes.
@@noneofyourbusiness9489 "They wanted to see if their buddies had survived." Yes, to make note of their position at the time of any parachute sightings, for POSSIBLE rescue, no body knows if will or can be done but you record the bloody information at the time in the eternal hope that you can tey to save everyone so you do your best even if its hopeless, so you take note of the position and radio in the situation and pray to whatever makes sense to you that all ends well....
@@HeartFeltGesture You're historically ignorant. What rescue? You think they were deploying SAR helicopters in WW2? If you went down in German occupied territory, your only hope was local resistance groups. There was nothing the allies could do for you.
@@noneofyourbusiness9489 There were a couple of sleeper cells posing as farmers in a nearby village, they had made a radio out of dung and some odd n ends, they heard the call with the coordinates and took in the injured pilot, and made him hot beef soup with hunks of sourdough and butter.
For those saying it's unrealistic for a B-17 to be maneuvering like that, it's a big heavy plane compared to a fighter but it's no slouch when it comes to a turn. It's also dropped 2000lb worth of bombs at this point meaning it has way less weight to contend with. It also doesn't need to maneuver that aggressively- Rosie just needs to line his gunners up with the oncoming fighters to maximize the chance of a defensive kill.
James Stewart was in one of those planes that flew over Europe. In many scenes of the movie ''It's a wonderful life'' you can see his PTSD in his performance, which only makes those scenes more powerful.
It's on display at the National Museum of the US Air Force. Dayton. Its fully restored although probably not flyable. Anyone who likes aircraft should get to that museum at least once.
@TheAmericanKid94 it could be so much worse. This project started as "The Mighty Eighth" movie. That trailer had some rough effects. We got off lucky with this one
I'll be real, your joke is funny af, but I'd like to boomer out here for a second and offer context some might not be thinking of... So, I remember watching these types of movies/shows back in highschool (2011-2015) and understanding it took guts, but the full gravity of what I was watching didn't hit me till I was about 22 and was told by family elders "that guy could and just might have been you, if you were around back then" and that's a wild realization to have, which most don't. They see actors, CGI, and imperfections, and can you blame them? They simply lack the world skills and context that come with being a more mature adult. It's almost better these kids don't have to understand that harsh truth too early, it's basically what these incredibly brave men fought for! Anyways, thanks for coming to my TED Talk, hope you have a blessed one :)
@@michaelgarcia4035 True. To be totally fair CGI for this kind of project is necessary considering there are only 4 flyable B17's in existence. That being said, it could have been better. Also did they have to CGI the desert scenes? Like they couldn't just go to the desert and film? Seemed lazy tbh.
@@HuntEthical they relied on the CGI screen a lot for background acting rather than going to locations these days. Probably cheaper for them Still doesn't stop me from enjoying the stories
It's because of the Mighty 8th and the Bloody 100th that the U.S. Air Force is a branch today. Proud U.S. Airman here, Engine Troop, A-10/F-16/F-15 .... "Blade's a Turnin', Enemies Burnin!"
Seeing those metal pieces fall calmly through the sky is similar to when you're in Afghanistan, and all of a sudden, all of the locals disappear, everything gets quiet, you're not getting shot at and there are no explosions. It's the real-life version of "boss music" from a video game. Everything is calm right now. It won't be for very long.
I was in Germany from 1968-70 and often went through Munster and never had any idea that it had been bombed, although I assumed that many places I visited had been. The church in Koln still had battle scars when I visited there.
Don't confuse Münster with Munster. They are two different places. Münster is in Westphalia, Munster in the Lüneburg Heath. There is a military training area there. I assume you were there.
@@PropperNaughtyGeezer He does not confuse anything at all. Munster is a Bundeswehr garrison encluding 3 exercise areas in the south of Hamburg. dansturgis cant have been there for 3 years. Itś Münster and it reads Munster because at brit. bords there is no Umlaut ÜÜÜÜÜ Hi dansturgis, I lived in Gremmendorf (York barraks) Where had YOU been? Swinton, Oxford?
My uncle Jim was a nose gunner on a B-24. I never learned about it until after he died years after the war. His brother Pete, was a tank commander under Patton in North Africa. He was awarded the Silver Star after a battle that saved American lives. I never heard about it until after he died as an old man. I asked another uncle why nobody ever talked about the war. His answer was: "Why would we"?
The answer is in the first episode: "I didn't know what to say." Even among themselves, it was extraordinarily difficult to describe what it was like to fight the war.
When you think about it most of the souls lost in this were just kids doing a job, I’m glad I got to meet a few of my great grandfathers war brothers before they passed
"Let's make this as gritty, realistic and successful as BoB!" "100%. But also we'll have a scene of a B-17 maneuvering around and taking out a bunch of fighters." "Sounds legit."
Probably somewhat dramatized for effect, but the events did actually happen: it took the combined strength of Rosenthal and Lewis to get the B-17 to make manuvers so severe that the waist gunners were just barely holding on. Intetsting of note is DeBlasio (tail gunner) apparently scoring six kills during the defense, though they were never confirmed on account of no witnesses being present to confirm any kills, and that this was stated in a letter DeBlasio wrote to Rosenthal post-war; the 8th claimed 105 kills while the Germans only listed 25 losses, so it's theoretically possibly those six might've been his, though he and the other gunners certainly did their bit. "Royal Flush" (along with "Old 666", a bomber in a similar bind) was an interesting bomber to read up on, and I would recommend further reading since that'll do more justice to the story than a RUclips comment section.
@@Ih8liarsandusers it is an accurate depiction. This shows the Air Raid on Muenster on the 10 Oktober 1943. The 100th Bombardment Group was a part of. They started with 13 B17 in England. 12 were shot down. Only one came back. The bloody Hundred lost 177 Airplanes during the war, so the whole unit was destroyed several times. The 8th USAAF lost over 5100 Airplanes during the war more than 26000 of their airmen were killed in action.
@@yorgonosch7225 You can read about "Royal Flush" if you're unconvinced, but it did actually happen. You can also read about "Old 666", I believe it went through similar circumstances against around 17 Zeros.
To my knowledge it was very rare for a bomber crew to shoot down fighters. In this series every bomber gunner becomes an ace it seems, and on every mission too.
Yea, you're onto something here, e.g. during one of the Schweinfurth raids the Luftwaffe would lose around 20 to 40 fighters to all causes. So kills by bomber defensive machine guns were not exactly rare, but occurred much less than the show would have viewers believe. Over all, despite the suspiciously many, suspiciously enthusiastic reviews, I think the show is, very much like 'The Pacific' was, very badly written.
Yep, the reality is, the "Flying Fortress" concept failed. Not that it wasn't a successful bomber, but the idea of them being able to defend themselves against fighters just didn't pan out. After horrendous losses on the Schweinfurt raids, the Air Force suspended daylight bombing until long range fighter escorts became available.
I only counted 8 German planes hit in this episode with what looked like half going down in flames, compared to the 25 confirmed to have been lost in the actual raid. In the episodes prior only 1 was hit in the opening of episode 1 and one smoking I the latter half, while in episode 2 only one was shot down and in episode 3 I counted 6 hit compared to 25-27 lost in the August 17 raid.
Rare on a per-sortie basis maybe, but they routinely flew 500+ bombers per mission, several times per month - shooting down 20-40 per mission when you have 500 plus aircraft shooting at them is quite believable. The real problem is that each enemy fighter would have gunners from several bombers shooting at it, all claiming it when the first puffs of smoke appeared.
It was not rare, but very difficult. Command thought it would be easy, and could not addmit that simply putting a gun at every corner would not make a bomber invinceable. How wrong they were. I read that some (?) crews shared each kill. Gen. Adolf Galland said that attacking a heavy bomber was very risky, and his method was to dive into the firmation from above. Only the top turret had a shot, but difficult one ,and it was the widest view of the bomber . He did say rookie German fighter pilots did not do well with his method, and collided alot. Mission accomplished.
@@rikk319 you aren't supposed to change the laws of physics to make something dramatic. It looks absolutely ridiculous. Tons of the CGI in this show was completely ridiculous in the way planes moved. It was awful
Rosenthal taught fighter aircraft tactical maneuvers before he became a bomber pilot. His ability to fly violent evasive maneuvers in a B-17 probably saved his aircraft over Munster. The Germans, probably low on fuel and ammo, gave up.
Not detracting from the bravery of the bomber crews AT ALL... but we had a B-17 crewman who completed 25 missions speak at our school back in the '80s. He told us he never fought Geman fighter planes. He saw them in the distance a couple times, but they never engaged. He did mention how terrible the flak was, and they lost some planes that way. Yes, I've seen the gun camera footage of German fighters shooting down B-17s, so I know it did happen, I just wonder if it was a common event.
It was pretty common in 42 and 43 when Germany actually had pilots. A lot of the guys who flew missions for the first two years would have faced hoardes of enemy fighters, but by the time the war was ending German planes in the sky were basically nonexistent. A relative of mine took part in the 8th Air Force's very first bombing mission on July 4 1942. On that mission, the cockpit of his B-17 took a direct hit from a Fw 190's 20mm cannon, killed co pilot and severely injured the pilot. They were shot down a few weeks later by another 190.
Where you are in the formation and where your bomber group may be in the whole bombing raid can pay a huge part. He may have found himself getting quite lucky with his plane not being in the most dangerous positions.
That vet had it easy, must have been late 1944 or sometime in 45 he flew his missions. In 1942 and 1943 the bombers had a rough time as they had no escort. It is also historically accurate that the entire squadron bar one plane was shot down on this mission. 13 entered German airspace only 1 came back. It was that brutal.
@@bmused55warum brutal ?? Wenn deine Heimat angegriffen wird dann wird Kampf und Verteidigung zur Pflicht... Ich möchte nur an Dresden 45 erinnern oder Hamburg oder Lübeck oder Bremen oder oder wo die Kranken GIs bewusst Brandbomben geworfen haben und so 90% der Städte komplett unbrauchbar wurden.... Umso mehr zeigt es wenn Deutsche in Frieden gelassen werden was daraus erwachsen kann. Kultur, Bildung, Wissen!!!
There are a number of verified accounts of the Luftwaffer putting up 200 and 300 fighters in massed attacks - if you were at the front of the formation you would definitely have seen them!
My Grandfather was a B-17 master crew chief in the Mighty 8th. He had 7 planes during the war. That's because 6 didn't come back. 60 Men. It wasn't something he talked much about.
Charles Bronson was a gunner on a B29. Being on a B17 was cold. Your oxygen mask would freeze up do to the cold, if one of your buddies was seriously wounded somebody had to make sure is mask didn't freeze up. You shot your guns in short burst to prevent over heating of the barrel. You had only one minute to take your glove off if you changed out your barrel. After that your hand was too cold to do any work. The top gunner had to be careful no to shoot the tail off the plane. If he did the pilot had to use the engine thrust of each wing to guide back to England. It was important to keep communication open and not hog the radio. When you got back to base bring out the two inch hose.
What an absolute nightmare it must have been to be a crew member of a B-17 or B-24, especially in 1943 when they didn't have any long range escort fighter cover and the Luftwaffe still had a significant fighter force to counter the heavy bombers. It still puzzles me that 8th Airforce command didn't recognize that losses like the 100th suffered could not be sustained.
Y'all are yapping. CGI? Really? What did you expect? 100 real pilots piloting 100 real ww2 airplanes? The way the scenes are portrayed is from the crew's perspective. It makes perfect sense.
@@popu_85 I know! somehow, while flying at 200+mph you are surrounded by debris floating as if it was in water, not in air and bound by gravity, and somehow keeping up with the B-17 and not disappearing in the rear as the plane propelled forward at speed. Idiotic.
ahhhh, someone who plays video games made a movie. If you are moving at 200+ mph and stuff is falling out the air, you will pass it very quickly. You won't watch it float past you like it is also going 200+ mph while flying. And B-17s didn't drop out of the sky, like 4 in the span of 2 minutes. Airplanes also don't explode that easy. (look at the collision at the airshow last year of a B-17, it just came apart.)
Ahh, the armchair physicists... The scene of the falling debris was based on eyewitness accounts of the crew as they scanned the skies for friendlies. Since all aircraft in the formation were traveling at the same speed, the debris would also be moving with a forward momentum identical to Rosie's. Since we know these planes were loaded with fuel, ordinance, etc, yes, they can explode very easily, especially with a ruptured fuel tank. The fights were that fast where 4 planes drop in less than 60 seconds. That was quite common with a forward strafe as per combat documentation.
@sloppyfloppy79 yeahhhh...ever see something fly off a plane in the air? It doesn't keep up. My armchair is comfortable and accurate. This scene is bullshit as it is filmed. I believe they flew through a debris field falling, just not floating along with them at their speed. Its called common sense. Maybe open a physics book yourself.
I love these stories. I've always loved them ever since I saw Memphis Belle in my History class in 2001. It's part of the reason I joined the Air Force in 2002 after I graduated High School. But unfortunately I've heard that this series isn't that great. I might be a little too critical, but I hate how that plane somehow has regenerative properties of the wing. It got a hole blown in it that magically fixed itself.
I applaud the effort to be realistic but why does Hollywood insist on having the air crews peel off their oxygen masks at altitude? Bad things start to happen when you don't have oxygen and quickly. 😮
@@Ih8liarsandusers Likely dramatized, but it was something that actually happened with that individual bomber (though I've heard the scene was actually toned down, so who knows, I guess).
@@idlzrufTrue... but that was a heavily modified bomber that didn't have a full bomb load (it was on a photo recon mission) and was at much lower altitude. To fly a B-17 around like that at high altitude and with a full bomb load goes way past what the air-frame could do.
Me and my dad would have been glued to this. He passed 2014 USAF. Anything planes especially military. I watch for him now with him besides me in spirit.
I know an elderly German woman from Munster. She was visiting her daughter in Kentucky about 30 years ago. One of the neighbors came over and said. "You're from Munster? I was a gunner during the war. We bombed Munster" She was not pleased
We got two tv shows about the infantry, we got a show about the bombers, we got movie about the destroyers, now we need a show about the fighter planes and tank crews. Cmon Tom Hanks. Make it happen!
The RAF bombers had a manoeuvre called the corkscrew. There is at least one account of a German fighter trying unsuccessfully for a long time to get a shot at a bomber performing this tactic.
Read the autobiographies, it could work against inexperienced pilots, the better ones waited until you ran out of altitude then the game was up, a good bomber pilot would get his crew out before they got too low!
Rosenthal going full Crazy Ivan no doubt contributed to the survival of him and his crew. The Krauts would try to set up an intercept approach, and Rosie would zag when the Jerries thought he'd zig. Airmanship of the highest order!
Comparing this to show Band of Brothers or The Pacific is chalk and cheese. Perhaps viewing the Battle of Britain from the British perspective would carry more weight.
😂😂😂nö denn die Engländer wollten den Krieg oder warum ist Churchill auf Hitlers Gesuch nicht eingegangen, das Churchill zwischen Polen und dem Dritten Reich nicht vermitteln wollte ?? England, Polen, Frankreich und die USA sind am Krieg genauso schuldig eigentlich die Schuldigen !
Puts B17 in near vertical dive and the bombadier/nose gunner is able to maintain his position AND shoot. I'd have thought he'd be heaped again the plexiglass nose with the navigator and everything else that was loose in the nose on top of him?! 🤔
I read the book before watching the series, both were EXCELLENT. We had two WWII vets in our family one Navy, & one Marines, we miss you Brownie & Norm. Colonel Rosenthal was nothing but a hero in my book flying as many combat missions as he did and also getting shot down twice. Men such as these are what put the word GREAT in the phrase THE GREATEST GENERATION. Thanks to all now serving, those who have, and those who will in the future. FLY NAVY!!!
Read Harry Crosby’s memoirs and that is exactly how Rosie was the only bomber back that day. He kept doing evasive manoeuvres to shake off some trailing Luftwaffe. In the end they gave up.
Actually there are records of wounded b-17s "dogfighting" 109s like this. Probably not to this level, obviously. But as far as turning in to cut firing time, chasing and manuvering so non-wounded gunners had a shot. Wounded B-17s were known to do anything to avoid bailing out.
The plane debris falling from the sky is just so damn eerie knowing those falling parts could be your friends you just had breakfast with prior to the mission…
Starting with the Bf-109F, the fighter carried a 20 mm cannon firing through the propeller shaft. Some versions fired a 15 mm cannon as well. The Bf-109 G-6 carried a 30 mm cannon that fired through the propeller shaft.
You were there? Rosenthal made his B-17 a difficult target by manouvering to the limit of breaking apart. He was lucky and the Germans not. BF 109 had many versions. 1943 could probably be the F1-F2 version with Motorkanone.
@@pietkoster1935 Yeah and just like in the new midway move the Dauntless was able to out maneuver the Zero when the US didn't even possess a fighter that could
My Grandfather was a pilot for the B17 , and got 2 distinguish flying crosses. One from WW2 and the other from Nam . 🫡. My other grandfather was one of the 10 founding members of what is today’s Spec ops .
They seriously didn't do their research on some of these aircraft. I am finding a crap load of mistakes. I feel they rushed to get this show out. I watched the last episode the other night and a scene was shown from the tail end of a B-17 and the right elevator was down while the left one was in its neutral position. Ya, that doesn't happen, nor can it.
The show was in preparation and production since 2013. And - "a crap load of mistakes" - it's not perfect, but they have gone to quite some lengths to get the details mostly right. There are other YT channels that do a much better job than "a crapload of mistakes" in telling us what's not correct. I recommend you look them up.
This scene and the entire story is very emotional, just think all those brave guys were not older than 25 years old. It is the best series I have seen for a long time, and based on true facts.
That is one of the problems with modern day film series, they feel the need to exaggerate the capabilities of everything at the expense of reality, read the autobiographies of the men that flew these missions and you will understand.
The RAF attacked Wuerzburg March 16th 1945. A university town that was on the RAF’s “should burn well list”. The Americans stood 30miles away and entered the town on April 6th with the American commander expressing his distress over a “war crime” to his superiors. He reported an estimated 36,000 civilians killed. One house wasn’t damaged. Good German historians now report “only” 5,000 dead. There cannot be any possible justification for this attack that wouldn’t put you in the same box as the worst of the Nazis.
I find it annoying that hand-operated gun mounts (waist, radio room and bow) sound like they mount M2HB variant (not just in that scene, everywhere in the show). It should be the same light-barrelled AN/M2 as in the turrets, with higher rate of fire. Slow "dut-dut-dut" sounds out of place.
had to smile at this - everyone else is moaning about this and that, and you drill right down and complain about the cyclic rate of the hand-held guns. Well done!
My grandfather flew for the 8th from '44 went to the B-29/50 over Korea(distinguished flying cross for bringing his aircraft back on 3 engines shot to hell, #4 completely left the wing😮), then went on to the Buff, B-52 over 'Nam 10 missions, retired. Lt. Col.
A lone B-17 against multiple 109s? It would have been over in under a minute for the Fortress as the 109s could fire their 20mm cannons out of range of the 50 bmgs. And the pilot flying the bomber like it was a fighter?
@@bmused55 That is one of the problems with modern day film series, they feel the need to exaggerate the capabilities of everything at the expense of reality, read the autobiographies of the men that flew these missions and you will understand. On a 50 machine mission to the U-boat pens in France the formation was attacked by 2 fighters, both of which were shot down, every bomber claimed both kills so they claimed 100 kills in total and no one wanted to back down so they let tem all claim 2! you want to know what the actual numbers shot down? see the German records, those are accurate! take the rest with a big pinch of salt
My grandfathers B-17 was shot down over the English Channel on the way back from bombing Germany. A pair of BF 109s followed them home. Shot the airplane down. Half of the crew was killed, my grandfather and a few of the survivors floated on the dead airplane in the Channel until a British destroyer saw them and picked them up. Top turret gunner, Richard Spears.
Une pensée pour ton grand père 🙏🇺🇸🇫🇷🇬🇧
I thank your grandfather For his service to this great nation of ours.
Truly the best generation in our nation's history.
Thanks for sharing your family story with us.
God bless America and all those who have fought and are currently fighting for democracy and freedom.
Thanks to him and thank you for telling us his story
Must have been awesome to listen to his stories.
❤
Münster - my home town. They are still finding several duds in the city of Münster, every year. Whole districs are evacuated and closed down, for the defusing and removal. Many of those bombs have a detonator on a chemical basis, that still works today. Thats why these are still as dangerous as in 1945. Every few years a bomb goes off "accidently" and kills some people.
An estimated 200.000 to 300.000 tons of duds are buried in the soil of Germany, today and its still going to take decades to remove those.
I thought, this may be interesting info in general.
Sorry for my bad english. Greetings from Germany!
In Russia now is the same situation. Not only in Russia, also in all west state of USSR. Children often dies, when plays. "Echo of the war"
Münsteraner hier! Tatsächlich finden die ständig irgendwas und ich glaube das wird noch weitere 100 Jahre weitergehen, mindestens.
Danke. Thank you for writing any english at all, and for the interesting information. I've travelled for business to Germany many times from the USA and I really enjoy the people and culture. Let us wish for today's enemies to one day be friendly as our countries are. It's hard to imagine after such terrible wars but here we are. Oh yeah - I enjoyed Münster too for an evening. Our equipment supplier took us there for a nice tour with a historical actor and then dinner. Nice city!
@@dunjak111 Thank you, I hope that you do visit the US. In our great distances you will find a lot to see. Next trip is to Germany, then Poland by train, the Baltic states by bus and Finland by ferry. I love the culture and history of Europe and wish more Americans understood why it is so important that we stand with it today. Bis zu besseren Tagen!
There is still a band across France and Belgium where the armies stood stalemated four years. Artillery ammunition duds in the tens of thousands have been removed over the past century & more still turn up.
This was Robert 'Rosie' Rosenthal and crew's third mission. After 4 aircraft from the 100th had turned back due to mechanical failures, 13 aircraft from the 100th proceeded to the target. Only one aircraft made it to the target and successfully returned to base: Rosenthal's aircraft. This was the beginning of Rosenthal's legend. There was enough story there that the whole mini-series could have been just about Rosenthal and his crews.
Yeah, but we gotta shoehorn the Red Tails in here somehow.
@@CorePathway Don't know about shoe horn, but give them their due!
@@winstonp.prescott3845 The Red Tails deserve all of the praise for what they did.... but the writers i feel did a disservice to them in this miniseries as they seemed to be 'thrown in' purely as an almost afterthought, just to appease the "inclusivity" crowd.
Yeah, they could've center the whole show around Rosenthal really. But I guess they had to shoehorn pretty boy Elvis and his friend to appease the straight white crowd.
@@The_Curious_Catgiven the amount of material needed to cover and the fact that it was made during COVID really did hamper the production. In both Band of Brothers and the Pacific, there’s a lot less material to try to fit in.
Easy Company was active from 1944-45. Not really that long in the grand scheme of things in the war. They took part in D-Day, Market Garden, The Bulge, and then you have the end of the war. The narrative is easily craftable because of the timeline of events. The same is true for the Pacific as well. Yes, the timespan is longer, but 1st Marine Division was only involved in four battles in the Pacific (Guadalcanal, Cape Gloucester, Peleliu, and Okinawa). The division was decimated on Peleliu, which is why it has such a heavy focus in the series and why the 1st Marine Division wasn’t put back into battle until 1945. It’s another easilu craftable narrative.
Now, take a look at the combat history of the 100th Bomb Group. From 1943-1945, they went on 306 bombing missions. And given the high attrition rate, crafting any sort of narrative is going to leave out/condense events to make the narrative flow better.
I worked with disabled vets, many from this group, many years ago when a lot of these guys were still alive. This clip is so accurate to their stories it's given me goosebumps. The parts falling from the sky, the time slowdown as the fighter past, all details I heard firsthand.
The parts falling from the sky, all I can say is - Holy Shite!
Seeing the pieces falling from the sky is haunting
I didn't know this show existed. My father flew with the Bloody 100th and was shot down on the Munster raid. I've got to see this.
Hardcore man.
Did you know that if you go on the 100th foundation website you could look him up in the personnel files. I’ve browsing it and looking up all the real people.
My mother, around 11yo at the time, experienced the raid in a cellar. So we both had a parent on each end of the raid. I do hope your father made it home in good health.
wow
@@ralfklonowski3740 That's really cool.
My father was a navigator in the 100th. I grew up knowing that if there was ever a WWII battle showing on TV, especially an air battle, I needed to quickly change the channel. The wide open sky would cause him to panic. He obviously had lifelong PTSD. He'd rarely talk about what happened to him, but during 9/11 when we all saw bodies falling out of buildings, he said that bodies fell out of the sky when he was over Germany. I had wondered what he meant, but these kinds of scenes might explain what he was saying.
Later in life when I told him I was going to visit Nuremberg and Regensburg Germany, he said that it was all bombed out. When I was of draft age, my lottery number was low. The Vietnam draft ended, but before we knew that he got mad and said how they had told him that WWII was the war to end all wars.
He was an unknown hero, as were the many others who helped defeat the Third Reich.
Would love to hear more. My uncle died (Aged 21) when his Lancaster was hit on the return from a Cologn bombing raid in 1943. He is buried in Antwerp. x
Was the wide open sky a reminder of being in the air? Just curious.
It’s hard to tell on the screen but when you see a real B-17 you’ll see that the pilot/copilot are almost sitting shoulder to shoulder. I worked in a war museum so I saw one every day while I was there.
Brave men in close quarters.
It’s hard to tell on the screen but when you see a real B-17 you’ll see that the pilot/copilot are almost sitting shoulder to shoulder. I worked in a war museum so I saw one every day while I was there.
Brave men in close quarters.
LONG LIVE WAFFEN SS .
THEY DO GOOD WORK AGAINST ANGLOSAXONS .
My dad was a co-pilot of a B-17 in WWII. At 22, he lived through the action we’re seeing on screen. The losses were heavy. He flew 30+ missions, where you only had to do 25 to go home. He didn’t
talk about the war much, except to say that he could eat breakfast with a fellow soldier, and then the guy wasn’t there the next day because he died in action.😢 I am proud to have his Distinguished Flying Cross. I’ll treasure it always ❤️🇺🇸
wow
thanks to people like him, now me and my family can live in a free country 🇵🇱 I really appreciate all those heroes sacrifice.
Is that a highest medal of all the medals? Wow, awesome, sorry for the lost of your grandfather. Rest in Peace
My dad was Flt engineer (top turret gunner) on B-17 and B-24's he did 33 missions. Hardly ever would talk about it.
@@johnwhalen9499 who cares
My uncle was a bombardier in Triangle A, same as portrayed here. He got shot down by German fighters on a bombing raid over Kassel, Germany. His 24th mission. He was 19. Joined up when he was 16. They were bombing the BMW fighter engine plant. The first run they didn't bomb because the target was hidden by a smoke screen. So they went around for a second run. The second run was always deadly for the airmen. But that was how they won the war - by just fighting it out.
A brave man.
No a coward
A coward your mother was, thats for sure, not being brave enough to abort such a sh*t like yourself @@sickc-1375
Did he survive?
@@sickc-1375 spoken like a true keyboard warrior.
My Dad's B-17 was shot down on this mission 10/10/1943.
They were in the 385th BG. Right waist gunner and ball turret gunner were KIA. Dad was top turret gunner and became POW in Stalag 17b
Сколько же вам лет?
@@вечныйстранник-е4д I would guess he could be in his 70s maybe 80s? You get old if you live long enough!
ruclips.net/video/0uwNotXUoCE/видео.htmlsi=3RlPigc5B9jzUQZM 1943 was 81 years ago, just assuming you where born in 1943 81 or even 1950 you are 74, video shows you flying your dads model, you look to not be anywhere near 81... or 74, you look to be in your 40's, so your born in the 80's , the math doesnt add up, not that it matters... just an observation
Was a Richard Spears on that airplane?
No I'm sorry he wasn't.@@billydeewilliams9104
My great uncle was shot down on this mission. His B17 was part of the 100th, 349th bomber squadron, and his plane was mentioned on Masters of the Air. He ended up in Stalag 17b.
The only reason my then teenage grandmother survived that raid was because she went into the wrong shelter.
Lmao
Those raids significantly shortened the war saving millions of innocent people imprisoned in death and concentration camps. Didn't your grandmother tell you why those brave pilots had to be dragged through half of the world to Europe?
@@trzeciazona9608 Most of these bombing raids did not save anyone because they targeted inner cities and not military installations. The attacks only killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, including tens of thousands of women and thousands of children. But I'm sure that won't interest you either.
@@vidright you realize that you repeat nazi propaganda? All those bombings saved millions of people and significantly shortened the war. It is well established historical fact. Regarding your question, I pity those killed in the death camps, not their opressors and those opressors' families. You where not victims, but the main cause of this madness.
@@vidright you well realize that you repeat the same old lie and deny well established historical facts? BTW I pity those imprisoned in camps, not their opressors and those opressors' families. You where not victims but the main cause of this madness, and never try to argue otherwise.
The 109 pilot is going "Vot ist this pilot think he's flying, ein Spitfire?!!
Nein vulfgang… vee have named ze flug afta ein frau garten
@@johnrion3232 Frau garten?
@@johnrion3232 You don't have to "germanise" Wolfgang. It's already a german name.
Actually the B-17 could be quite maneuverable. They only flew straight and level for defense formation and the bomb run. But the planes were new, well maintained and the pilots in the late teens and twenties. So with the bombs gone and no group a good pilot could do everything but loops.
The B17 carried about the same bomb load as a Mosquito, hence very maneuverable in the hands of a skilled pilot once unloaded.
I had an uncle who flew in a Lancaster bomber for the RAF, and he was anything but a coward (like they were trying to portray them as in this show). His unit took incredible losses during the war, but they still got in those planes. I also had an American uncle who flew in a B17. I don't know what his MOS was in the plane, but the only thing he would ever say about the war was that one can not imagine the horror that you feel hearing your friends screaming as their planes fell out of the sky. He also commented to me once about how fanatical the German fighter pilots were. They were defending their homes, so who wouldn't be?
All in all, these kids on both sides were brave, and they died like flies. War is a terrible thing. It pits one kid against another. They personally don't have a grudge against the other, but they have to fight to stay alive. I always treated our Iraqi prisoners with respect for this reason. They were doing what I would have done in their situation. These men came out to fight one of the best fighting forces in the world, and they did so with old and sometimes used up rifles. So they earned that respect.
Вы очень мудро думаете..
Wow, someone with a respectful, thoughtful and considerate opinion.
Rare these times.
Thank you.
Americans have nothing but respect for the RAF, then and now.
Haven't watched this series, but if it portrays the Brit bomber crews as cowards that is BS. They were everything BUT cowards. Just look at their losses, and they STILL kept bombing.
@@phil4483 No American thinks the British crews were cowards.
They had fighter escorts but they only had enough fuel to protect them on part of the missions.Not till later like early 1944 did they get additional fuel tanks for Spitfires.I always remembered in Memphis Belle the guys saying goodbye "little friends" when they had to turn back.Unbielivable courage these men displayed!!
P-51 Mustangs were the game changer in 1944, to Berlin and back. Spitfires could go as far as northern France.
The P-51 came along later in the war and had the range to protect the Bombers.
Catch 22
Great Movie: Memphis Belle… No CGI! I’ve nothing against it…. Just saying.
It was first the p-47 that escorted the b-17's aka the "jugg" it was very well armoured, reliable, good sustain heavy damage still return home and had good fuel range escorting bombers i think even back and forth but..... the p-47 was far less agile and slower then the bf 109 and the focke wulfs around 43 44 so american airforce indeed incorporated the p-51 mustang but this was far later on heavy losses where already sustained due to the fact that even if the bombers had p-47 escorts they where to slow climbed slow and didnt stand a chance against an good bf 109 pilot german airforce was leading for years in technology . Then the p-51 came and later on also fuel tanks that fully covered the journey. The spitfire had the same rolls royce motor with 2000 horse power of rolls but the p51 was still faster, better build aurodynamically. The p-51 was for a while the fastest plane on the earth with a speed of 750km an hour + heavy armament and a fast climber high altitude escort bomber fighter toghether with the p-38 twing engine boom 2x roll royce motor. Wich also escorted a lot of b17 missions countering the bf 110 high altitude fighter. Only after the p51 and especially the p51 red tails black division. bomber missions suffered much less casualties the black division performed the best in defending bomber missions. So after the commisioning of the p51 i think in 44 or 43 correct me if im wrong bombers missions where mainly a mixture of p51-s p47-s and p-38's. But ofcourse spitfires hurricanes, tempests, sea fires, and lot of other british models probably have seen action.
This was the peak of the series
It was like a horror movie. Those poor guys.
@@leons.kennedy6710 read up on RAF Bomber Command, 45% killed. This series did the Commonwealth crews dirty.
@@goodshipkaraboudjanthey need to make their own shows
My father was assigned to USNATO in the 1980s so we lived in Belgium for a couple of years. My folks remember going to a small dinner party one evening, just them, the host family (English) and two other couples that were all friends. Dad was too young for WWII but was in the US Navy during the Korean conflict and flew a lot (not as pilot, but as meteorologist went up pretty often in the back seat); two of the other men there had flown in WWII, and all being diplomatic or military families, everyone had a lot of air miles under their belts so talk turned to experiences during flights. The German gentleman began to wax poetic about the beautiful interactions he used to see between moon, clouds, and water when flying at night, and how beautiful the moon looked reflecting off the English Channel... at which point it got very quiet, because everyone simultaneously realized that he was a Luftwaffe bomber pilot in WWII and the host was an RAF fighter pilot... (Eventually everyone sort of laughed it off, and the friendships continued until we returned Stateside a couple of years later.)
Donald pleaseance the british actor flew 62 bombing missions for the raf ..before becoming an actor ...he played the forger in the film The great escape ...
Splendid
Un gran actor sin duda.un gran piloto le debemos mucho todos.hizo muy buenas películas 🎥 como muchos actores famosos por lo visto también lucho en la segunda guerra mundial..
@@marianovaliente2103 Including Jimmy Stewart.
Many of the actors in the Great Escape were in the service including Steve McQueen. Excellent movie.
James garner was also in a bomber during ww2
I knew an old guy who had been a waist gunner on a B17 . Flew more than his 25 he said . He only remembered actually seeing his hits on one fighter in all the fights he had been in. Didn’t even know if that fighter went down or not. He said he was always too damn scared to worry much about anything except firing his gun.
I read many autobiographies and that sounds right, they would occasionally see one go down but had no idea if they had anything to do with it!
Ex RAF mobile Comms, used to travel by C-130 to NATO exercises, used to stand by the reader right door, which had a window, see the English Channel dissapear & think, so from now, you are on your own….. & pray for those lost.Only going one way to, say, Italy….it was a long flight, & a long way down. Day or night …they were brave lads, all. respect to those that survived, regular prayers for those who did not.😊
It's insane to think that a lot of those guys where in their twenties when this happened
Some Pilots were only 19!
If they were that old, many were underage.
Teens
@@dan3535351 A few were teenagers. But most were in their mid-to-late 20s.
Many of the captains were only 21
My uncle was a first sergeant in the 8th Airforce. The top ball gunner in a B24 liberator in mid 44. His bomber crew flew a full 25 missions before being send home. My aunt said he never talked about his combat tour but she and my cousins said he had nightmares the rest of his life till the day he passed in 2003.
My respect to your family
Other people: YOU CANT DOGFIGHT WITH A B-17
This crew: Watch me
Hold my beer!
Physics: "Nah, you really can't... It just happens when the CGI artists have no idea how physics work."
Also Physics: "In reality, that B-17 would have oversped and broken up in mid-air or got caught by that German fighter with his vastly tighter turning circle."
War Thunder: reality can be whatever I want
In other words... not very realistic. I'll be giving this one a miss.
That is one of the problems with modern day film series, they feel the need to exaggerate the capabilities of everything at the expense of reality, read the autobiographies of the men that flew these missions and you will understand.
My absolute favorite scene in the whole series. The way Rosie flew evasive tactics was brilliant.
I aways wonder how much damage was done by "friendly fire" in those huge formations of bombers
Not as much as was done by Flak and fighters.
Can't remember exactly who said it but there's an interview with a German pilot where he talks about the tactics they used against bombers and how during a pass going through the middle of the formation was the safest place to be because the gunners wouldn't shoot for fear of hitting each other.
you would be surprised ammo casing dropping on another aircraft occured more often than friendly fires
The combat box was designed to minimize that, but with all hell breaking loose it did happen. When you add up all the other things, 50cal friendly fire was almost irrelevant when compared to 88mm flak, 20mm cannon from 109 and 190 or simply other forts blowing up and taking others in the formation with them.
I read less than .5%
They all served. My buddy's dad was in -17s - he did his 25 over Europe. His granddad was a dough in the trenches in 1918. Mr. Burns next door was XO on a DE on the Atlantic convoy runs. My dad was CO of a DE in the Pacific. He kept it floating after being hit by a kamikaxi. Doc Howe was a battalion surgeon in the Philippines. My uncle who had lost two fingers to a motorcycle chain in the 30s was a PW camp guard.
A hidh school history teacher, Herr Fuchs, was a 15 year old on the Russian front in January 1945.
They all went where they were told to go and did the best they could to do a good job at what they were told to do.
My buddies and I did the same later in Southeast Asia.
I have 39 months of combat as an Infantryman in Iraq and Afghanistan. My grandfather was a ball turret gunner with the 384th Bomb Group. I wouldn't trade places with him for anything. Those guys had spines of iron and balls of steal.
One mistake this series frequently makes is German fighters going through B17 formations at ultra close range. The Luftwaffe pilots quickly learned their 20 and 30mm cannons outranged the B17s 50 and 30 calibre guns. So they used to stay at range and snipe at the Bombers which greatly reduced their losses.
And the fact that the Tuskegee Airmen never fought alongside the 100th BG and were Mediterranean Based so Historically inaccurate
@sinistercharger FR... so many errors in this....
My maternal grandfather was a Lancaster pilot and Air Bomber. Didn't talk about it much, as he was a career Air Force pilot. Just another day at the office for him...
What got me here is how they see one plane ignite, explode, slam into the other one and all you can do is watch. Also, how badly they want the relief of seeing parachutes.
Its more that they need to mark the position if any parachutes are seen, for rescue missions, but yes relief also.
@@HeartFeltGesture What? Rescue missions were not a thing. They wanted to see if their buddies had survived.
@@noneofyourbusiness9489 "They wanted to see if their buddies had survived." Yes, to make note of their position at the time of any parachute sightings, for POSSIBLE rescue, no body knows if will or can be done but you record the bloody information at the time in the eternal hope that you can tey to save everyone so you do your best even if its hopeless, so you take note of the position and radio in the situation and pray to whatever makes sense to you that all ends well....
@@HeartFeltGesture You're historically ignorant. What rescue? You think they were deploying SAR helicopters in WW2? If you went down in German occupied territory, your only hope was local resistance groups. There was nothing the allies could do for you.
@@noneofyourbusiness9489 There were a couple of sleeper cells posing as farmers in a nearby village, they had made a radio out of dung and some odd n ends, they heard the call with the coordinates and took in the injured pilot, and made him hot beef soup with hunks of sourdough and butter.
For those saying it's unrealistic for a B-17 to be maneuvering like that, it's a big heavy plane compared to a fighter but it's no slouch when it comes to a turn. It's also dropped 2000lb worth of bombs at this point meaning it has way less weight to contend with. It also doesn't need to maneuver that aggressively- Rosie just needs to line his gunners up with the oncoming fighters to maximize the chance of a defensive kill.
0:32 THERE'S A HOLE IN YOUR LEFT WING 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
Wow that numbered grid plexiglass he looks through at 1:03 is awesome great detail.
James Stewart was in one of those planes that flew over Europe. In many scenes of the movie ''It's a wonderful life'' you can see his PTSD in his performance, which only makes those scenes more powerful.
Does anyone remember Memphis Bell?
Never forget!
It's on display at the National Museum of the US Air Force. Dayton. Its fully restored although probably not flyable. Anyone who likes aircraft should get to that museum at least once.
wore the tape out of that film
One of my favourite movies. Anyone know where it can be found today?
Grew up watching it with my dad, love that film and all the history surrounding these brave soldiers.
I couldn't imagine the stress and everything these guys went through thanks to all who served this country thanks you too
Adults: amazing show to understand what those men did for our freedom
Kids: CGI is bad
I mean, it is though.
@TheAmericanKid94 it could be so much worse. This project started as "The Mighty Eighth" movie. That trailer had some rough effects. We got off lucky with this one
I'll be real, your joke is funny af, but I'd like to boomer out here for a second and offer context some might not be thinking of...
So, I remember watching these types of movies/shows back in highschool (2011-2015) and understanding it took guts, but the full gravity of what I was watching didn't hit me till I was about 22 and was told by family elders "that guy could and just might have been you, if you were around back then" and that's a wild realization to have, which most don't.
They see actors, CGI, and imperfections, and can you blame them? They simply lack the world skills and context that come with being a more mature adult. It's almost better these kids don't have to understand that harsh truth too early, it's basically what these incredibly brave men fought for!
Anyways, thanks for coming to my TED Talk, hope you have a blessed one :)
@@michaelgarcia4035 True. To be totally fair CGI for this kind of project is necessary considering there are only 4 flyable B17's in existence. That being said, it could have been better. Also did they have to CGI the desert scenes? Like they couldn't just go to the desert and film? Seemed lazy tbh.
@@HuntEthical they relied on the CGI screen a lot for background acting rather than going to locations these days. Probably cheaper for them
Still doesn't stop me from enjoying the stories
It's because of the Mighty 8th and the Bloody 100th that the U.S. Air Force is a branch today. Proud U.S. Airman here, Engine Troop, A-10/F-16/F-15 .... "Blade's a Turnin', Enemies Burnin!"
Seeing those metal pieces fall calmly through the sky is similar to when you're in Afghanistan, and all of a sudden, all of the locals disappear, everything gets quiet, you're not getting shot at and there are no explosions.
It's the real-life version of "boss music" from a video game.
Everything is calm right now. It won't be for very long.
I was in Germany from 1968-70 and often went through Munster and never had any idea that it had been bombed, although I assumed that many places I visited had been. The church in Koln still had battle scars when I visited there.
Don't confuse Münster with Munster. They are two different places. Münster is in Westphalia, Munster in the Lüneburg Heath. There is a military training area there. I assume you were there.
@@PropperNaughtyGeezer He does not confuse anything at all. Munster is a Bundeswehr garrison encluding 3 exercise areas in the south of Hamburg. dansturgis cant have been there for 3 years. Itś Münster and it reads Munster because at brit. bords there is no Umlaut ÜÜÜÜÜ
Hi dansturgis, I lived in Gremmendorf (York barraks) Where had YOU been?
Swinton, Oxford?
I’ve travelled round Munster, Dingle Bay being my favourite part. The whole place seems so peaceful now!
Who fixed the wing mid flight? One minute there is a hole in the wing and then at 3 min 57 sec in the clip it has gone / repaired?
Self-repairing nano-tech.
My uncle Jim was a nose gunner on a B-24. I never learned about it until after he died years after the war. His brother Pete, was a tank commander under Patton in North Africa. He was awarded the Silver Star after a battle that saved American lives. I never heard about it until after he died as an old man. I asked another uncle why nobody ever talked about the war. His answer was: "Why would we"?
The answer is in the first episode: "I didn't know what to say." Even among themselves, it was extraordinarily difficult to describe what it was like to fight the war.
1:10
That shot of debris in the air was scary yet amazing
In the years between 1939 and 1945 there were a total of 1,128 air alarms and 102 air raids on Münster. Almost 1,600 people died in these air raids.
Love this scene because Rosie shows how good of a pilot and leader he is
"There's a hole in the wing!
War Thunder players: We still have a wing? That's new.
Holy shit the pieces of the 2 bombers that collided just floating down around them that was f'ing spooky as hell.
Imagine how they felt.
When you think about it most of the souls lost in this were just kids doing a job, I’m glad I got to meet a few of my great grandfathers war brothers before they passed
"Let's make this as gritty, realistic and successful as BoB!"
"100%. But also we'll have a scene of a B-17 maneuvering around and taking out a bunch of fighters."
"Sounds legit."
It may not be accurate but they probably wanted to dramatise it to show just how good a pilot Robert Rosenthal was.
Probably somewhat dramatized for effect, but the events did actually happen: it took the combined strength of Rosenthal and Lewis to get the B-17 to make manuvers so severe that the waist gunners were just barely holding on.
Intetsting of note is DeBlasio (tail gunner) apparently scoring six kills during the defense, though they were never confirmed on account of no witnesses being present to confirm any kills, and that this was stated in a letter DeBlasio wrote to Rosenthal post-war; the 8th claimed 105 kills while the Germans only listed 25 losses, so it's theoretically possibly those six might've been his, though he and the other gunners certainly did their bit.
"Royal Flush" (along with "Old 666", a bomber in a similar bind) was an interesting bomber to read up on, and I would recommend further reading since that'll do more justice to the story than a RUclips comment section.
BoB was live action
Spiers running through the German lines at Foy was pretty unbelievable too. Sometimes mad things happen.
Somebody doesn’t play war thunderrrrrrr…
This episode hit me hard couldn't believe what those guys went through let alone such actually happen especially how many came back from the mission
It didn't go down like this....this is very hollywooded up
What was it like @@Ih8liarsandusers
@@Ih8liarsandusers it is an accurate depiction. This shows the Air Raid on Muenster on the 10 Oktober 1943. The 100th Bombardment Group was a part of. They started with 13 B17 in England. 12 were shot down. Only one came back. The bloody Hundred lost 177 Airplanes during the war, so the whole unit was destroyed several times. The 8th USAAF lost over 5100 Airplanes during the war more than 26000 of their airmen were killed in action.
@@Stormoak
The numbers might be matching but this is everything but a “accurate depiction” 110% Hollywood 😂
@@yorgonosch7225 You can read about "Royal Flush" if you're unconvinced, but it did actually happen. You can also read about "Old 666", I believe it went through similar circumstances against around 17 Zeros.
This scene made a big impact on me. The moment they realized they were the only ones making it back. Everyone else has perished.
To my knowledge it was very rare for a bomber crew to shoot down fighters. In this series every bomber gunner becomes an ace it seems, and on every mission too.
Yea, you're onto something here, e.g. during one of the Schweinfurth raids the Luftwaffe would lose around 20 to 40 fighters to all causes. So kills by bomber defensive machine guns were not exactly rare, but occurred much less than the show would have viewers believe.
Over all, despite the suspiciously many, suspiciously enthusiastic reviews, I think the show is, very much like 'The Pacific' was, very badly written.
Yep, the reality is, the "Flying Fortress" concept failed. Not that it wasn't a successful bomber, but the idea of them being able to defend themselves against fighters just didn't pan out.
After horrendous losses on the Schweinfurt raids, the Air Force suspended daylight bombing until long range fighter escorts became available.
I only counted 8 German planes hit in this episode with what looked like half going down in flames, compared to the 25 confirmed to have been lost in the actual raid.
In the episodes prior only 1 was hit in the opening of episode 1 and one smoking I the latter half, while in episode 2 only one was shot down and in episode 3 I counted 6 hit compared to 25-27 lost in the August 17 raid.
Rare on a per-sortie basis maybe, but they routinely flew 500+ bombers per mission, several times per month - shooting down 20-40 per mission when you have 500 plus aircraft shooting at them is quite believable. The real problem is that each enemy fighter would have gunners from several bombers shooting at it, all claiming it when the first puffs of smoke appeared.
It was not rare, but very difficult. Command thought it would be easy, and could not addmit that simply putting a gun at every corner would not make a bomber invinceable. How wrong they were. I read that some (?) crews shared each kill. Gen. Adolf Galland said that attacking a heavy bomber was very risky, and his method was to dive into the firmation from above. Only the top turret had a shot, but difficult one ,and it was the widest view of the bomber . He did say rookie German fighter pilots did not do well with his method, and collided alot. Mission accomplished.
"When airplane engines fall to the ground, it's like a piece of paper."
Photographic evidence shows that engines separated from the bomber, in a fireball, were still running.
Here on YT, look up Nike missile B-17 test.
It's called artistic license. The director is trying to convey the moment of horror, seeing bits of bombers falling all around you.
@@bmused55Whatever you call it, it looked ridiculous
@@wakka4211 I'm guessing you don't know the meaning of the word drama, or expect every film to be a staid documentary.
@@rikk319 you aren't supposed to change the laws of physics to make something dramatic. It looks absolutely ridiculous. Tons of the CGI in this show was completely ridiculous in the way planes moved. It was awful
Rosenthal taught fighter aircraft tactical maneuvers before he became a bomber pilot. His ability to fly violent evasive maneuvers in a B-17 probably saved his aircraft over Munster. The Germans, probably low on fuel and ammo, gave up.
Might be mistaken, but I remember reading an account of the events that said that the 109s disengaged to go attack a nearby bomber group.
Not detracting from the bravery of the bomber crews AT ALL... but we had a B-17 crewman who completed 25 missions speak at our school back in the '80s. He told us he never fought Geman fighter planes. He saw them in the distance a couple times, but they never engaged. He did mention how terrible the flak was, and they lost some planes that way. Yes, I've seen the gun camera footage of German fighters shooting down B-17s, so I know it did happen, I just wonder if it was a common event.
It was pretty common in 42 and 43 when Germany actually had pilots. A lot of the guys who flew missions for the first two years would have faced hoardes of enemy fighters, but by the time the war was ending German planes in the sky were basically nonexistent. A relative of mine took part in the 8th Air Force's very first bombing mission on July 4 1942. On that mission, the cockpit of his B-17 took a direct hit from a Fw 190's 20mm cannon, killed co pilot and severely injured the pilot. They were shot down a few weeks later by another 190.
Where you are in the formation and where your bomber group may be in the whole bombing raid can pay a huge part. He may have found himself getting quite lucky with his plane not being in the most dangerous positions.
That vet had it easy, must have been late 1944 or sometime in 45 he flew his missions. In 1942 and 1943 the bombers had a rough time as they had no escort.
It is also historically accurate that the entire squadron bar one plane was shot down on this mission. 13 entered German airspace only 1 came back. It was that brutal.
@@bmused55warum brutal ?? Wenn deine Heimat angegriffen wird dann wird Kampf und Verteidigung zur Pflicht... Ich möchte nur an Dresden 45 erinnern oder Hamburg oder Lübeck oder Bremen oder oder wo die Kranken GIs bewusst Brandbomben geworfen haben und so 90% der Städte komplett unbrauchbar wurden....
Umso mehr zeigt es wenn Deutsche in Frieden gelassen werden was daraus erwachsen kann. Kultur, Bildung, Wissen!!!
There are a number of verified accounts of the Luftwaffer putting up 200 and 300 fighters in massed attacks - if you were at the front of the formation you would definitely have seen them!
My Grandfather was a B-17 master crew chief in the Mighty 8th. He had 7 planes during the war. That's because 6 didn't come back. 60 Men. It wasn't something he talked much about.
There are some really excellent comments below. Thank you everyone for contributing.
Remember, a young Charles Bronson was like one of those guys, after bombing Germany during WWII he got their unexpressive eyes.
Charles Bronson was a gunner on a B29. Being on a B17 was cold. Your oxygen mask would freeze up do to the cold, if one of your buddies was seriously wounded somebody had to make sure is mask didn't freeze up. You shot your guns in short burst to prevent over heating of the barrel. You had only one minute to take your glove off if you changed out your barrel. After that your hand was too cold to do any work. The top gunner had to be careful no to shoot the tail off the plane. If he did the pilot had to use the engine thrust of each wing to guide back to England. It was important to keep communication open and not hog the radio. When you got back to base bring out the two inch hose.
What an absolute nightmare it must have been to be a crew member of a B-17 or B-24, especially in 1943 when they didn't have any long range escort fighter cover and the Luftwaffe still had a significant fighter force to counter the heavy bombers. It still puzzles me that 8th Airforce command didn't recognize that losses like the 100th suffered could not be sustained.
These flying scenes just look shockingly bad. We waited so long for this series and we got this.
CGI overkill. Ruined.
Y'all are yapping. CGI? Really? What did you expect? 100 real pilots piloting 100 real ww2 airplanes? The way the scenes are portrayed is from the crew's perspective. It makes perfect sense.
They didnt even respect the laws of physics in some scenes..
Yeh I don't think I will be watching this series at all ....I prefer Menphis belle or battle of Britain
@@popu_85 I know! somehow, while flying at 200+mph you are surrounded by debris floating as if it was in water, not in air and bound by gravity, and somehow keeping up with the B-17 and not disappearing in the rear as the plane propelled forward at speed. Idiotic.
1:43 is where you drop your payload and reverse course!
ahhhh, someone who plays video games made a movie. If you are moving at 200+ mph and stuff is falling out the air, you will pass it very quickly. You won't watch it float past you like it is also going 200+ mph while flying. And B-17s didn't drop out of the sky, like 4 in the span of 2 minutes. Airplanes also don't explode that easy. (look at the collision at the airshow last year of a B-17, it just came apart.)
exactly, too many big aircraft parts "floating" and falling down.. B-17s didn't explode just in a few cases in air fighting
Correct on all points - but this isn't a documentary.
@@raymondmiller5098 doesn't need to be. It shouldn't be too hard to add a little physics into it when making the show.
Ahh, the armchair physicists... The scene of the falling debris was based on eyewitness accounts of the crew as they scanned the skies for friendlies. Since all aircraft in the formation were traveling at the same speed, the debris would also be moving with a forward momentum identical to Rosie's.
Since we know these planes were loaded with fuel, ordinance, etc, yes, they can explode very easily, especially with a ruptured fuel tank.
The fights were that fast where 4 planes drop in less than 60 seconds. That was quite common with a forward strafe as per combat documentation.
@sloppyfloppy79 yeahhhh...ever see something fly off a plane in the air? It doesn't keep up. My armchair is comfortable and accurate. This scene is bullshit as it is filmed. I believe they flew through a debris field falling, just not floating along with them at their speed. Its called common sense. Maybe open a physics book yourself.
This is why upon returning from a mission the crew was given a couple shots of whiskey during debriefing.
The airplane physics in this series is so painful..
Agree. To see it done right watch the 1969 film "The Battle of Britain", because they used real planes.
I love these stories. I've always loved them ever since I saw Memphis Belle in my History class in 2001. It's part of the reason I joined the Air Force in 2002 after I graduated High School. But unfortunately I've heard that this series isn't that great. I might be a little too critical, but I hate how that plane somehow has regenerative properties of the wing. It got a hole blown in it that magically fixed itself.
I applaud the effort to be realistic but why does Hollywood insist on having the air crews peel off their oxygen masks at altitude? Bad things start to happen when you don't have oxygen and quickly. 😮
I was stationed in Muenster( unable to insert umlaut!) from 1958-1963. A nice
city. I saw `Satchmo`there at the big hall in the city.
Brutal battle. Insane evasive flying.
Not even close to realistic
@@Ih8liarsandusers Likely dramatized, but it was something that actually happened with that individual bomber (though I've heard the scene was actually toned down, so who knows, I guess).
Look up Ole 666 it happened in the pacific
@@Ih8liarsandusersYou are so wrong lol.
@@idlzrufTrue... but that was a heavily modified bomber that didn't have a full bomb load (it was on a photo recon mission) and was at much lower altitude. To fly a B-17 around like that at high altitude and with a full bomb load goes way past what the air-frame could do.
Me and my dad would have been glued to this. He passed 2014 USAF. Anything planes especially military. I watch for him now with him besides me in spirit.
I know an elderly German woman from Munster. She was visiting her daughter in Kentucky about 30 years ago. One of the neighbors came over and said. "You're from Munster? I was a gunner during the war. We bombed Munster" She was not pleased
Those raids significantly shortened the war saving millions of innocent people imprisoned by the Germans in death and concentration camps.
what an asshole.
Yep, I think I'd have kept very quiet about that if it were me.
Really, ohhh, why - she was liberated after all later on
We got two tv shows about the infantry, we got a show about the bombers, we got movie about the destroyers, now we need a show about the fighter planes and tank crews. Cmon Tom Hanks. Make it happen!
The RAF bombers had a manoeuvre called the corkscrew. There is at least one account of a German fighter trying unsuccessfully for a long time to get a shot at a bomber performing this tactic.
Read the autobiographies, it could work against inexperienced pilots, the better ones waited until you ran out of altitude then the game was up, a good bomber pilot would get his crew out before they got too low!
Rosenthal going full Crazy Ivan no doubt contributed to the survival of him and his crew. The Krauts would try to set up an intercept approach, and Rosie would zag when the Jerries thought he'd zig. Airmanship of the highest order!
Comparing this to show Band of Brothers or The Pacific is chalk and cheese.
Perhaps viewing the Battle of Britain from the British perspective would carry more weight.
😂😂😂nö denn die Engländer wollten den Krieg oder warum ist Churchill auf Hitlers Gesuch nicht eingegangen, das Churchill zwischen Polen und dem Dritten Reich nicht vermitteln wollte ??
England, Polen, Frankreich und die USA sind am Krieg genauso schuldig eigentlich die Schuldigen !
The guy does a nice lazy eight there, those Commercial Checkride maneuvers do come in handy!
Greatest generation for a reason
huh, not those that fought in WW1 and then WW2?
Awesome action! Makes me feel like I am there!
Puts B17 in near vertical dive and the bombadier/nose gunner is able to maintain his position AND shoot. I'd have thought he'd be heaped again the plexiglass nose with the navigator and everything else that was loose in the nose on top of him?! 🤔
That is one of the problems with modern day film series, they feel the need to exaggerate the capabilities of everything at the expense of reality,
I read the book before watching the series, both were EXCELLENT. We had two WWII vets in our family one Navy, & one Marines, we miss you Brownie & Norm. Colonel Rosenthal was nothing but a hero in my book flying as many combat missions as he did and also getting shot down twice. Men such as these are what put the word GREAT in the phrase THE GREATEST GENERATION. Thanks to all now serving, those who have, and those who will in the future. FLY NAVY!!!
Ball turrets are an awesome feat of engineering of the time.
Yes they are but DEADLY too !
@@Sharky2901 yes they must have been. For the airman inside. Tail gunner as well.
They had balls as big as the turrent themselves!
Not if you were in one.
@@fotograf736 Statistically ball turret was one of the safest positions in a b-17. It was more deadly to be a waist gunner
This show is so underrated.
Good to have these clips - I can see I want to watch nothing further of what is basically a comic book with real actors in it.
Read Harry Crosby’s memoirs and that is exactly how Rosie was the only bomber back that day. He kept doing evasive manoeuvres to shake off some trailing Luftwaffe. In the end they gave up.
1:13 even not in slo mo this must have been surreal seeing chunks of B-17 falling all around them.
Due to their weights being lighter. It falls a lot slower
Not even realistic
Great show @@Ih8liarsandusers
@@Ih8liarsandusersso what was it like flying in the daylight campaign 1942-45? …..hello?…anyone?…..🤡
@@guts-141 All objects fall at the same rate. basic physics.
Massive respect to the brave lads and what they went through. True heroes.
realism level : star wars
I agree. Would have thought they’d attempt a more realistic portrayal out of respect to the crews. A real misjudgment. Will be avoiding.
@@stephencarter4304The series is excellent despite the less realistic air battles.
Actually there are records of wounded b-17s "dogfighting" 109s like this. Probably not to this level, obviously. But as far as turning in to cut firing time, chasing and manuvering so non-wounded gunners had a shot. Wounded B-17s were known to do anything to avoid bailing out.
It’s a tv show…. Chill
Wherabo level, detected.
The plane debris falling from the sky is just so damn eerie knowing those falling parts could be your friends you just had breakfast with prior to the mission…
I've never seen a 109 with the 20mm cannon in the cowl it shot through the propeller nor have I seen a B17 that can out maneuver a 109
Starting with the Bf-109F, the fighter carried a 20 mm cannon firing through the propeller shaft. Some versions fired a 15 mm cannon as well. The Bf-109 G-6 carried a 30 mm cannon that fired through the propeller shaft.
You were there? Rosenthal made his B-17 a difficult target by manouvering to the limit of breaking apart. He was lucky and the Germans not. BF 109 had many versions. 1943 could probably be the F1-F2 version with Motorkanone.
f-4 or g-series.
Ill correct your sentence Mark : "Iv never seen a 109 nor have I seen a B17."
@@pietkoster1935 Yeah and just like in the new midway move the Dauntless was able to out maneuver the Zero when the US didn't even possess a fighter that could
I really liked the actor who played Rosie. He did his job really well.
My Grandfather was a pilot for the B17 , and got 2 distinguish flying crosses. One from WW2 and the other from Nam . 🫡.
My other grandfather was one of the 10 founding members of what is today’s Spec ops .
They seriously didn't do their research on some of these aircraft. I am finding a crap load of mistakes. I feel they rushed to get this show out. I watched the last episode the other night and a scene was shown from the tail end of a B-17 and the right elevator was down while the left one was in its neutral position. Ya, that doesn't happen, nor can it.
The show was in preparation and production since 2013. And - "a crap load of mistakes" - it's not perfect, but they have gone to quite some lengths to get the details mostly right. There are other YT channels that do a much better job than "a crapload of mistakes" in telling us what's not correct. I recommend you look them up.
This scene and the entire story is very emotional, just think all those brave guys were not older than 25 years old. It is the best series I have seen for a long time, and based on true facts.
The man out maneuvered two BF-109s with a Massive Bomber, Rosie was the real life Han Solo
That is one of the problems with modern day film series, they feel the need to exaggerate the capabilities of everything at the expense of reality, read the autobiographies of the men that flew these missions and you will understand.
The RAF attacked Wuerzburg March 16th 1945. A university town that was on the RAF’s “should burn well list”. The Americans stood 30miles away and entered the town on April 6th with the American commander expressing his distress over a “war crime” to his superiors. He reported an estimated 36,000 civilians killed. One house wasn’t damaged. Good German historians now report “only” 5,000 dead.
There cannot be any possible justification for this attack that wouldn’t put you in the same box as the worst of the Nazis.
Sow the wind.
@ exactly my point
No matter the side, war is absolute hell
I find it annoying that hand-operated gun mounts (waist, radio room and bow) sound like they mount M2HB variant (not just in that scene, everywhere in the show). It should be the same light-barrelled AN/M2 as in the turrets, with higher rate of fire. Slow "dut-dut-dut" sounds out of place.
had to smile at this - everyone else is moaning about this and that, and you drill right down and complain about the cyclic rate of the hand-held guns. Well done!
Of the 130 men that flew, 37 were killed & 93 ended up as prisoners of war.
Is this war thunder game play video lol
My grandfather flew for the 8th from '44 went to the B-29/50 over Korea(distinguished flying cross for bringing his aircraft back on 3 engines shot to hell, #4 completely left the wing😮), then went on to the Buff, B-52 over 'Nam 10 missions, retired. Lt. Col.
A lone B-17 against multiple 109s? It would have been over in under a minute for the Fortress as the 109s could fire their 20mm cannons out of range of the 50 bmgs. And the pilot flying the bomber like it was a fighter?
This “clip” is pretty dumb isn’t it
This actually happened and the pilot did get it home.
@@owensteamdo some research. It actually happened. And they got home.
@@bmused55 the single bomber coming home is a well documented fact but it didn’t happen like that. Use your brain it’s Hollywood
@@bmused55 That is one of the problems with modern day film series, they feel the need to exaggerate the capabilities of everything at the expense of reality, read the autobiographies of the men that flew these missions and you will understand. On a 50 machine mission to the U-boat pens in France the formation was attacked by 2 fighters, both of which were shot down, every bomber claimed both kills so they claimed 100 kills in total and no one wanted to back down so they let tem all claim 2! you want to know what the actual numbers shot down? see the German records, those are accurate! take the rest with a big pinch of salt