Yes a clickbait title... When I saw it I thought; "That ship has sailed for nearly everyone." His problem is the failure of those designing the switches for proper operation, with a probable solution of a capacitor and diode designed in the circuit board(s) of the switch and/or lights.
or read the packaging for the switch: "NOTE: When connected to compact fluorescent lamps or LEDs, the bulb may flicker while switch is in the off position."
Hey, it gives Professor jesse another chance to pontificate. I do know these switches need to be rated for CFL/LED, whether that pertains to Low Voltage or not, is another thing.
This dude seems to be notorious for not reading the basic instructions & warnings, not understanding the basics of a product, making big mistakes, then arrogantly accusing the product of being the problem when the reality is, HE is the problem.
bradini I'm thinking that when the house is finished, the property taxes will be adjusted to current market value. Right now since the house is not finished, the property taxes remain as if it was when they bought the bare land.
@@cb4648 I knew some people years ago whose house looked barely habitable from the outside but the inside was immaculate and fancy. Basically, because they were in what could be considered a "low rent" district, they put their money on the interior where they lived and did only what was necessary to make the house weather proof on the outside and prvent the city from condemning it. So they had luxury living on the outside and low property taxes and maintenance on the outside.
I noticed when I had a similar issue, the solution was that the LED bulbs that I was using were not UL compliant and switching to UL compliant bulbs made the problem go away. Did you try the back lit switch in the bathroom yet? How did it work?
Producer: Can you tell the problem we are having 1:29 Me: The drywall seams Producer: You probably already know the answer (shows more closer to the drywall work) Me: Well ofc it's the drywall Producer: It's the LIGHT Me: (flips the table)
Sounds like you improperly wired your circuit the glow switch uses a diode.. separate it from your light circuit Using a neutral within the switch box.. Now that I watched the video it's just like I said.... as a master electrician for over 30 years I have never had those problems your switch is fine
All wrong the concept is pretty simple you have a low powered led in parallel with a standard switch when the switch is on it's effectively zero resistance so no power flows though the led when it's off you have a low voltage low current situation with a incandescent light the output is so low the filament doesn't get hot/ produce light but cfl and led have electronic control circuits which see the voltage attempt to start the light and promptly turn off again due to lack of power hence the flashing
Why not install switches without the "night lights," and then plug one of those dedicated night lights into one of the outlets to illuminate the switch area under the sink?
You purchased an illuminated switch for an incandescent bulb and now you have found that you need to buy a switch designed for LED bulbs. Yes it does make a difference. Most big box stores do not carry switches for low current lighting.
They can also be smart! We have a bunch in our house and it is so simple to create actions so you can control multiple rooms or use their Pico remote to control multiple lights.
Just install normal switches and plug one of those LED night lights in the “constant” outlet. We used one in our kitchen back when the kids were babies on bottles. Enough light where I could mix a bottle in the middle of the night but not so bright that it woke me up completely.
Hey, nothing wrong with those new switches. See that third terminal on there? That needs to be hooked up to the neutral wire so you can have a little light on your switch. Did you look at the diagrams on the box.?
Why do you need two switches that glow? Surely you only need one to find out where they are. Also if you need to have lights on wouldn't you of turned a light on when you entered the garage of walked down the stairs.
Hey you could do a trick that works bro : Just let the swicht turn on a relay that supply the lights with a second ciruit of power (so in simple the swicht turns the relay on the relay turns the light on ) then your problem is done . you get also systems to build inside the fuse box (here in our country they are pretty common) so you should ask arround for parts like that . Have fun !
You need to put a relay for your LED circuit. The relay don't store electricity as a capacitor. The relay is an electromagnetic magnet that close the circuit. So a 110 Volt AC relay. You need to buy the relay with the same amp as your home electricity circuit.
Isn't it a safety hazard that an outlet that's supposed to be turned off has 55 VAC on it? I mean you count on a switch to break the circuit. Even with an incandescent bulb, it would keep the filament warmed up and waste power.
This is a very interesting problem. The light in the switch is a neon bulb, there is a resister or capacitor in series to limit the current. UL (underwriters lab) which regulates safety, allows for a small amount of current (1-10 mA) to go through humans. This current causes the 55 volts he measures with his DVM, if the input resistance of the meter was different the voltage would be different. He was close to a solution, but He chose a night light that uses an electroluminescent light that draws very little current which allowed the voltage to get high enough to trigger the LED. If he had found a old style incandescent night light he would have been successful. The night light would not be lit but it would prevent the voltage to build up. The night light will be on when the LED is lit. The solution below using a 1 Meg resister would also work but I wouldn't recommend it, UL would want it to be 2 watt carbon composition to have sufficient voltage rating. As an interesting fact, TV sets are required to have a certain amount of leakage current...A REQUIRED SHOCK!!
The voltage (55v) you are seeing is due to the light in the switch seeking a return path. If you were to put even a very small load in the circuit, the voltage will approach zero.
@@jimhutton2390 Found out to my cost that holding on to an earthed chassis whilst using one of those neon screwdriver testers still results in an electric shock on the 240V mains of the UK
This is actually the correct solution. It's a shunt capacitor. MLC stands for Minimum Load Capacitor and he should install it in the one of the outlets(assuming both outlets are on the same circuit). Only one MLC is needed per circuit/backlit light switch.
Sorry I don't have a answer to this problem ! But enjoy the videos that you put out. And happy to see everyone is doing well in this day and age. Thanks for sharing this information with us. Take care
The problem is that the capacitive dropper circuit in the driver doesn't have a properly sized discharge resistor for that application. If you had a switching power supply this wouldn't be a problem. That's probably why the bigger lights don't have the issue.
I personally have rgb controller above hood fan powering my cabinet lighting with motions so as I approach they come on with the Color I saved on the memory function in the remote that I keep in the catch all drawer
Those leds save probably 40-80 watts compared to fluorescent or incandescent. Meanwhile, the switch maybe “wastes” .5w while providing a useful nightlight.
I never realized until now just how close to your sink your light switch is, I'm amazed that the code in the USA allows you to have a switch right above your sink as this is asking for trouble!. Anyone who touches the switch with wet hands or if steam is able to get into the unit your risking being electrocuted at the very least even the risk of fire starting!. Something that the UK would NEVER ALLOW!!!
A switch that passes 55v... Not a switch ! Solution. use normal switches at the entrances of rooms and then you don't need lights on switches that pass electricity when they are off. As for bathrooms, UK uses pull cords so as not to get a shock with wet hands. USA electrics, from what I have seen, is protection from the fuse box. Not the best solution.
A bit of a different tack: A three-way switch (AKA SPDT) could be used. One way turns on the LED lighting as normal, the second way switches in a small LED nightlight. It's not the same as an illuminated switch, but it would solve the flashing problem. I ran into this same thing with a motion sensor switch.
My dad is a lot like you Jesse. My advice would be F**k the glowy switches. You're creating your own problems by your specific preferences despite your understanding of the issues they create. Get some siding on those SIPS, bruh! We've watched a billion screws along this journey to let that particleboard waste away.
Interesting little known fact: LED nightlights that come on when it's dark actually use slightly *more* electricity when they're off than when they're on because it's easier to short out the LED than it is to disconnect it. Of course, they use so little electricity that it really doesn't matter.
Got this from a message board. The person was having the exact same problem. Was advised to use these switches and he came back and said they work well. The Lutron Claro Illuminated Decora switches are supposedly rated for LED/CFL in addition to incandescent/halogen. Model numbers are CA-1PSNL (single pole gloss finish), SC-1PSNL (single pole satin finish), CA-3PSNL (3-way gloss finish) and SC-3PSNL (3-way satin finish).
Leaking a small amount of current through the load to run the glowy bit is being phased out, that's why there is requirement to have neutral in every box.
Your problem is caused by the wall wart itself. Cheap wall warts don't use transformers. They take the incoming AC voltage and run it trough a rectifier converting to DC, then it goes trough a DC to DC converter which drops it down to a lower DC voltage. A simple solution to this problem would be to find a transformer based wall wart with the same volts and amp specs as the cheap psu. Transformer based psu's a heavier than a cheap electronic one's, and more money.
A 12 volt switching power supply for your LED's, if you want to keep the wall switche(s). You could use one switching PS to control all of them also... instead of having wall warts.
In the UK you cannot have electrical switches that close to a sink / water source. As switches can be splashed and are dangerous to operate if you have wet hands. May need to read the electrical regulations!
I live in New Zealand and I have achieved this in all the House's I have wired up as an electrician. Here we use completely different switches. Our switches have an LED with two tails built into the switch which have to be manually wired, one tail with the neutrals and the other with the switched line or in terminal 2 (which achieves the effect you are after) Hope that helps. If you need me to explain more let me know.
Check out Lutron switches, I just install some led lights in my kitchen and they wouldn’t work with the old switches so a friend of mine got me two new Lutron switches that just come out, they are back lit and are dimmers also I don’t remember the item number for them but they work great you can also set the brightness you want
Roger Wandschneider Elmo, but my LUTRON DIMMER SWITCH, was a dud, Forgot what brand, but it LOOKS just like the Lytton, with the rocker switch on its bottom, Cheers 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Try using a Luton product called LUT-MLC, this go's between the neutral and hot wire at the switch or outlet. I have used this many times for that problem you are having.
From what I understand about that type of LED lighting is that they are not meant to have an external( ie, the DPDT OR SPST) switch. I believe what you need to do is bypass the switch and use night lights. My best advice is; remove the 110v switch and go fom there.
A 240 vac light switch is a double pole in order to shut off both legs of power. I know they make ones that have the illuminated toggle on them. Maybe there is a 240 vac illuminated rocker type somewhere. Just a thought...
Get dimmer switches and move them away from the sink and don’t tie them into any other circuit. GFCI outlets are required by any water source (Kitchen, Bathroom etc)
I'm pretty sure the have gfi brakes in most of the house. If I remember correctly they had to have them because they were living in the house pre drywall. Plus a lot of houses have switches close to the sink like that. Mine does for the garbage disposal outlet.
Have you tried wiring the lighted switch into the neutral leg(white wire) coming from the wall plug and leaving the power wire(black wire) always hot? Try it and see if it works. If it meets NEC is a separate issue. Or use a Leviton Outlet-to-Socket Light Plug, White Model # R52-00061-00W with a 40watt bulb plugged into the unused plug receptacle.
Video shows how you wire in two wires to the right side of the new switch, not a third one (neutral) to the connection on the other side of the switch, visible at 12:03. Are you supposed to connect neutral to that?
In the auto lighting industry- it has the same issue regarding led bulbs. The solution there is to put a capacitor or a resistor in line to simulate the draw of incandescent. Not sure if it could apply here
Check your wiring. The neutral can not be broken by the switch. The gold screws get the hot side and contol the flow. The dark terminal goes to the neutral side of the circuit. The bulb in the switch then has a completed path when off and the led does not see the hot side untill the switch is turned on
That was my first thought until I remembered that it wasn't the neon that was strobing. It needs a shunt capacitor at one of the outlets, or in a different use case, the fixture.
Maybe split the receptacle, one side has the lights, the other has your nightlight. Then wire in a non lighted 3-way switch to the split receptacle to power either the undercabinet light or the night light. I don't know if this meets code, btw.
I agree with your explanation. I imagine whether or not the switch causes the strobe effect depends on the design of the LED lighting power supply. Did you try one in the bathroom yet?
the problem is the power adaptor, it is converting ac to dc for the led minis, therefore it has both a transformer and cap which is being charged by the 55vac. Install regular 120vac leds and problem will be gone.
Ran into that problem 10 years ago with led bulbs I put into my ceiling fan that was remote control. Eventually replaced the center bulb with a standard 7 watt incandescent night light bulb.
What you've been shooting for to cure the problem is a Double pole, Single throw illuminating switch. Most of these types of switches have an amber (Neon) bulb inside the switch that is connected internally on the supply side terminals of the switch.
Someone may have already said this but install a GE Z-Wave Plus 3-Way White/Almond Smart with LED Rocker Light Switch. Not only will you have the ability to turn the lights on and off from your phone, but they also have a small blue led (below the rocker switch) that helps you locate the switch in the dark. I have three of these installed currently in my home. They require a hot and neutral line in order to supply constant power so the z-wave components can constantly be listening for wireless on and off commands.
apart from using a relay there comes only one other non bandade solution to my mind and that would be, to use a usb soket like you used down below also for the soket where you plug the led strips in to. The internal electronics of the usb soket should waste sufficient amounts of power to keep everything off.
That's what I thought of. You are basically powering the primary coil of the step down transformer that is inside that 120 - USB converter. Although it is an inductive load instead of a resistive load, it should still provide enough resistance (a parasitic load, as Jesse called it) in order to do the trick.
Hearing someone advise a resistor across mains voltage worries me deeply.... Many better options but all dependent on the ic's being used, tools available and understanding of electronics. Also a resistor inline with one or many LED's is not an automotive thing, its a thing to not make them instantly explode. LED's are diodes, their forward current is exponentially related to voltage over their minimum forward voltage, but each one is not exactly the same so they are provided with a little to much voltage and given a resistor so they don't instantly die.
In Europe, we have this kind of technology already 20 years ago. It's pretty simple, ours switch have a hole where you can put a small led that shine throw the plastic of the switch, you connect this small led on one side to the neutral on the over side to one pole of the switch depending if you want it to be on continuously, when the light is on or when the light is off.
Different brands of LEDs act differently. Some blink and some just gently glow (on a glow switch). We use a glow one in our bathroom which makes a perfect night lite. We went through this a few years ago ourselves.
in the uk some dimmer switches are supplied with an inductor/resistor that has to be wired across the load to prevent this. the neutral is present in our switch backboxes.. not sure how you wire up over there
Two pole alternating switch, they do exist ;) Not sure about one with a control light , but a diode and a resistance can easily be added behind the cover (in most cases. There is already one such circuit in the current switches.
I had the same problem with our porch led light when I put a digital timer to turn on the light and when the timer was off the bulb would flicker, had to change the timer to a mechanical timer and now I can use any type of bulb.
I had the same problem. I just replaced the "glowing switch" with a standard outlet. Even my LEDs that are plugged into my TV's USB port flash like that when the TV is off. So Annoying!
I believe the neon bulb in your switches probably consumes around 0.4mA. At 120V V=IR translates to 120/.0004 = 300,000 ohms. Therefore, I think a ballast resister of 300k Ohms wired from the switched side to neutral would drain away the current and stop the problem. Of course, insulating the wires going to the resister is a challenge, but heat shrink could do it.
Surely a glowing switch could lead to accidents as your concentrating on walking over to the switch and trip over unexpected obstacles? Usually a switch is located near a doorway for exactly this reason... it's easy to find in the dark! Additional switches that aren't near doorways are normally used in a 2 or more way switching arrangement, but not on their own.
The neon lamp in the switch breaks down at about 60 volts. Hence about 55 volts is presented at the receptacle. The NE2 neon lamps take a very small current but enough to charge up the LED. Often the series resistor used with the NE2 bulbs are often 20K to 56K ohms. The LED's draw so little that it is enough to charge to their trigger point.
The answer is simple, please try it just to see if I’m correct or not. Your first drawing in the video you said the hot goes to the switch and from the switch to your lights, and your neutral goes straight to the lights. Believe it or not the problem is the neural wire. It to needs to go to the switch first just like the hot and then to the lights just like the hot. You currently have a broken current, once you fix the neutral it won’t be broken anymore and it should all work like it should. Like I said just try it, you have nothing to loose.
Install a Kasa TP Link smart switch. You can turn out on using an app or smart device plus there is a glowing halo on the switch when its off. I have these all over my house and work wonderful.
Sounds a lot like the "zombie" LED bulb that Steve Mould talked about in his video last year. The bulb was manufactured on the cheap and is missing a resistor so when powered off it turns the cabling in the house into a giant capacitor. in your case there should be 0V at the outlet when the switch is in the off position. I would say that you need to get different switches that glow but do not pass voltage when they are off.
If you were to come in contact with that 55volts on the outlet, the impedance of your body would likely be enough load to cause it to drop to zero or close to it.. As someone else mentioned, a UL approved wall wart typically has a resistor to discharge the capacitor once the unit is plugged in.. This "bleed" resistor is also typically enough to load down the leakage current.. The load is typically the return path for the LED or Neon bulb that illuminates the switch.
Problem is that the neon lights leak current past the switch. This slowly charges the capacitor in the LED power supply and causes the lights to flash and discharge the capacitor, rinse and repeat. Either remove the neon or put a 100K/0.5W resistor between the light PSU input terminals to prevent the charging effect. .
A Switche, that doesn't disconnect the hot wire are dangerous anyway. Even on normal light bulbs. Consider a broken bulb, full voltage where you do not expect it and trying to change the bulb. You'll ending up getting hit by the full voltage.
Not to familiar with house wiring, but could you install a small in line resistor like what would be used in a circuit board or automotive wiring. It would obviously dim the LEDs a little bit when they are turned on but may stop the flashing. Just a thought, I honestly have no clue if it is even possible.
if you can find these I think this is the ones, ........The Lutron Claro Illuminated Decora switches are supposedly rated for LED/CFL in addition to incandescent/halogen. Model numbers are CA-1PSNL (single pole gloss finish), SC-1PSNL (single pole satin finish), CA-3PSNL (3-way gloss finish) and SC-3PSNL (3-way satin finish)..
Seems wasteful and dangerous. I would have thought if the light switch is off there would be no power running through the outlet, yet there is. (Someone could get zapped). Also, it seems wasteful, as using a normal light bulb as a resistor in the circuit seems like it would use more energy than just powering the light in the switch. Even though the power going through the bulb is not enough to light it, it is still using energy. and what happens if you use one of these switches to power (for example) a garbage disposal. Could the motor be creating heat, even though not running? Or could it shorten the life of the motor?
I installed a motion-activated switch in my bathroom and found that the 4 led bulbs put out enough light to see ok when the motion detector was off and a much brighter light when the motion was detected. So much for using a motion detector to save energy.
Put small non polar foil capacitor resistor series combo across that circuit... 0.1-1u (200-400V) +100ohm... (resistor is protection in case cap shorts it burns without tripping the fuse)
It's called leakage current.. It's a very small current that over time will charge the capacitor in the wall wart to a voltage that will activate the power supply.. When the supply activates, the current gets relatively large, thus discharging the cap.. the light goes back off.. the leakage slowly starts charging the cap again and the cycle repeats... He does a fair job at explaining this.
I have recently had this problem with the led lights that I installed down the sides of my steps. The switch I used had a red indicator light that glows when the switch is powered off. I solved it by removing the small red neon indicator light. Voltage was passing through the neon and allowing the leds to flash when enough voltage had built up.
Really surprised the second switch didn’t work, Possibly the reason was the line (hot) is directional so you needed to swap them. I ran into issues while installing WiFi switches with led floodlights, as a lot of the switches are dimmable and the led lights I have are not.
The Lutron Claro Illuminated Decora switches are supposedly rated for LED/CFL in addition to incandescent/halogen. Model numbers are CA-1PSNL (single pole gloss finish), SC-1PSNL (single pole satin finish), CA-3PSNL (3-way gloss finish) and SC-3PSNL (3-way satin finish). (found this online)
Most of the cheaper switches use a cheap (neon?) bulb that doesn't behave well if the load is too low (i.e. relatively efficient and bucket-charger like those LED lights have). The bigger light like above your sink may just have enough charge, but it can be borderline too. I switched over to a slightly more upmarket switch type that has a LED light inside it. That has a very, very low power use and it avoids the flicker you are seeing. The ones I have are from a brand called Veto, which I'm unsure if you have in the US, but it is likely a more expensive switch will work well.
Title should have been "Don't use lighted switches 'Till you WATCH THIS VIDEO"
Yes a clickbait title... When I saw it I thought; "That ship has sailed for nearly everyone." His problem is the failure of those designing the switches for proper operation, with a probable solution of a capacitor and diode designed in the circuit board(s) of the switch and/or lights.
The illuminated lighting switches are not normally suitable for use with low energy lamps or loads .
or read the packaging for the switch: "NOTE: When connected to compact fluorescent lamps or LEDs, the bulb may flicker while switch is in the off position."
Hey, it gives Professor jesse another chance to pontificate.
I do know these switches need to be rated for CFL/LED, whether that pertains to Low Voltage or not, is another thing.
This dude seems to be notorious for not reading the basic instructions & warnings, not understanding the basics of a product, making big mistakes, then arrogantly accusing the product of being the problem when the reality is, HE is the problem.
why don't you put siding on your house its been like 5 years
bradini I'm thinking that when the house is finished, the property taxes will be adjusted to current market value. Right now since the house is not finished, the property taxes remain as if it was when they bought the bare land.
No money left!!
@@cb4648
I knew some people years ago whose house looked barely habitable from the outside but the inside was immaculate and fancy. Basically, because they were in what could be considered a "low rent" district, they put their money on the interior where they lived and did only what was necessary to make the house weather proof on the outside and prvent the city from condemning it. So they had luxury living on the outside and low property taxes and maintenance on the outside.
You funny. I have been an electrician for 30 years. Log homes to office buildings. You remind me of one of them fickle wives of my customers.
Your wife is cheating on you.
unrelated question, why was your property up for sale last year?
not enouogh youtube money apparently
What a rude reply...who cares ?
Everyone has difficulties !
Hang in there.....
Question is....why didnt anyone buy it?
Link?
Adblocker on
Whats up with the drywall finishing job behind the sink?
What happened to the wife? Did she get tired of the house not being finished?
Their kid is occasionally heard but not yet seen.
I noticed when I had a similar issue, the solution was that the LED bulbs that I was using were not UL compliant and switching to UL compliant bulbs made the problem go away. Did you try the back lit switch in the bathroom yet? How did it work?
Producer: Can you tell the problem we are having 1:29
Me: The drywall seams
Producer: You probably already know the answer (shows more closer to the drywall work)
Me: Well ofc it's the drywall
Producer: It's the LIGHT
Me: (flips the table)
It looks like a temporary kitchen in the garage. I have been away, dont know whats going on.
Anthony Romano it is just a temp kitchen, and he said they will eventually plank that wall so the finish doesn’t matter
Ilia Jdanov I thought he was gonne tell us it lights up all the bad drywall work 🤣
LOL. I think it'll get covered by backsplash at some point
It's temporary
Sounds like you improperly wired your circuit the glow switch uses a diode.. separate it from your light circuit
Using a neutral within the switch box..
Now that I watched the video it's just like I said.... as a master electrician for over 30 years I have never had those problems your switch is fine
You are incorrect the switch backlight is Neon!!
All wrong the concept is pretty simple you have a low powered led in parallel with a standard switch when the switch is on it's effectively zero resistance so no power flows though the led when it's off you have a low voltage low current situation with a incandescent light the output is so low the filament doesn't get hot/ produce light but cfl and led have electronic control circuits which see the voltage attempt to start the light and promptly turn off again due to lack of power hence the flashing
Why not install switches without the "night lights," and then plug one of those dedicated night lights into one of the outlets to illuminate the switch area under the sink?
This would be too simple and Jesse doesn't like simple.
@@ughhitstodd949 Neither do I. I am with Jesse. We both look for the precisely correct solution to problems.
@@ganterpv in my book the nightlight solution is exactly the right solution because I have always found lighted switches unreliable
🤯😁
I agree with all of these people.
You purchased an illuminated switch for an incandescent bulb and now you have found that you need to buy a switch designed for LED bulbs. Yes it does make a difference. Most big box stores do not carry switches for low current lighting.
But Jessie doesn't like to be told what to do. He always knows best 😂
Never mind about lightbulbs...we here for your building your home.
Buy Lutron Maestro dimmer & switch . I have a dozen of them, they all work perfect for LED's. And yes backlight. Been around for 10 years...
I was going to say use Lutron too. Maybe a bit more expensive, but well worth it.
They can also be smart! We have a bunch in our house and it is so simple to create actions so you can control multiple rooms or use their Pico remote to control multiple lights.
Just install normal switches and plug one of those LED night lights in the “constant” outlet. We used one in our kitchen back when the kids were babies on bottles. Enough light where I could mix a bottle in the middle of the night but not so bright that it woke me up completely.
That's about what I was going to say. A whole lot simpler,cheaper, and probably more environmentally friendly
Hey, nothing wrong with those new switches. See that third terminal on there? That needs to be hooked up to the neutral wire so you can have a little light on your switch. Did you look at the diagrams on the box.?
I might be wrong, but to me those switches seem way too close to the water and the sink.
Lols yes, it's like an accident waiting to happen
That switch is clearly marked that it only works with incandescent lights.
Why do you need two switches that glow? Surely you only need one to find out where they are. Also if you need to have lights on wouldn't you of turned a light on when you entered the garage of walked down the stairs.
Hey you could do a trick that works bro : Just let the swicht turn on a relay that supply the lights with a second ciruit of power (so in simple the swicht turns the relay on the relay turns the light on ) then your problem is done . you get also systems to build inside the fuse box (here in our country they are pretty common) so you should ask arround for parts like that . Have fun !
You need to put a relay for your LED circuit. The relay don't store electricity as a capacitor. The relay is an electromagnetic magnet that close the circuit. So a 110 Volt AC relay. You need to buy the relay with the same amp as your home electricity circuit.
Would work but not a fail safe option.
@@Ixions maybe you could explain why it is not "Fail safe"
Thomas Eisen why not just a simple resistor put in to service?
@@markbarnhill6300 - it is exactly what I mean. He has to drain the current leaking true the switch.
For temporary, paint the switches with glow in the dark paint.
Isn't it a safety hazard that an outlet that's supposed to be turned off has 55 VAC on it? I mean you count on a switch to break the circuit. Even with an incandescent bulb, it would keep the filament warmed up and waste power.
Well that's the problem... the switch assumes you just have incandescent bulbs which is a dumb assumption
This is a very interesting problem. The light in the switch is a neon bulb, there is a resister or capacitor in series to limit the current. UL (underwriters lab) which regulates safety, allows for a small amount of current (1-10 mA) to go through humans. This current causes the 55 volts he measures with his DVM, if the input resistance of the meter was different the voltage would be different. He was close to a solution, but He chose a night light that uses an electroluminescent light that draws very little current which allowed the voltage to get high enough to trigger the LED. If he had found a old style incandescent night light he would have been successful. The night light would not be lit but it would prevent the voltage to build up. The night light will be on when the LED is lit. The solution below using a 1 Meg resister would also work but I wouldn't recommend it, UL would want it to be 2 watt carbon composition to have sufficient voltage rating.
As an interesting fact, TV sets are required to have a certain amount of leakage current...A REQUIRED SHOCK!!
The voltage (55v) you are seeing is due to the light in the switch seeking a return path. If you were to put even a very small load in the circuit, the voltage will approach zero.
I found LED night lights that turn on and off with the light in the area ! Two for $2.50 on sale !
@@jimhutton2390 Found out to my cost that holding on to an earthed chassis whilst using one of those neon screwdriver testers still results in an electric shock on the 240V mains of the UK
Try the lutron LUT-MLC. I had the same problem and this fixed it.
This is actually the correct solution. It's a shunt capacitor. MLC stands for Minimum Load Capacitor and he should install it in the one of the outlets(assuming both outlets are on the same circuit). Only one MLC is needed per circuit/backlit light switch.
Use your adblocker people.
As a former installer of lutron products I can attest to thier quality, great stuff.
Sorry I don't have a answer to this problem ! But enjoy the videos that you put out. And happy to see everyone is doing well in this day and age. Thanks for sharing this information with us. Take care
Why don't you finish your house
The time is used to answer all these video responses.
Jim why don't you buzz off... yes even after 2 years. Don't like it then don't watch or comment.
The problem is that the capacitive dropper circuit in the driver doesn't have a properly sized discharge resistor for that application. If you had a switching power supply this wouldn't be a problem. That's probably why the bigger lights don't have the issue.
I personally have rgb controller above hood fan powering my cabinet lighting with motions so as I approach they come on with the Color I saved on the memory function in the remote that I keep in the catch all drawer
Ta psu is witchetd. They have the same problem. And the resistor should not be across the dropper cap. It should be across the filter cap.
So your using LED lights to save power... yet your using a switch that is designed to waste power???
If you walk around in your house for a bit eventually you know where everything is in even pitch black especially the light switches , try it
they don't waste power they turn it into useful light
Those leds save probably 40-80 watts compared to fluorescent or incandescent. Meanwhile, the switch maybe “wastes” .5w while providing a useful nightlight.
Can you do more of your house build please. We enjoy seeing you house getting built
I never realized until now just how close to your sink your light switch is, I'm amazed that the code in the USA allows you to have a switch right above your sink as this is asking for trouble!.
Anyone who touches the switch with wet hands or if steam is able to get into the unit your risking being electrocuted at the very least even the risk of fire starting!.
Something that the UK would NEVER ALLOW!!!
Often outlets like that are in bathrooms, however they MUST be GFCI protected.
Neither would Finland!
i think in Germany it has to be about 60 cm / 23,622 Zoll away from any water outlett
In EU the switch should have ground protection and 60cm away from water source. Also why is there 55V on a closed circuit!!!??!! Dont blame the leds.
A switch that passes 55v... Not a switch ! Solution. use normal switches at the entrances of rooms and then you don't need lights on switches that pass electricity when they are off. As for bathrooms, UK uses pull cords so as not to get a shock with wet hands.
USA electrics, from what I have seen, is protection from the fuse box. Not the best solution.
A bit of a different tack:
A three-way switch (AKA SPDT) could be used. One way turns on the LED lighting as normal, the second way switches in a small LED nightlight. It's not the same as an illuminated switch, but it would solve the flashing problem.
I ran into this same thing with a motion sensor switch.
I think he is after a lighted DPDT switch?
@@schwags1969 isn't that last switch for a 3 wire setup?
My dad is a lot like you Jesse. My advice would be F**k the glowy switches. You're creating your own problems by your specific preferences despite your understanding of the issues they create. Get some siding on those SIPS, bruh! We've watched a billion screws along this journey to let that particleboard waste away.
I just use an led nightlight that plugs into an outlet and comes on when it is dark automatically. I would use regular switches.
Your solution is too simple and Jesse doesn't like simple.
The plugs are switched so they would have to be on for the night lights also turning on the under cab lights
You could use (non-solar) outdoor path lights which are activated by motion. I've had batteries last over a year.
Interesting little known fact: LED nightlights that come on when it's dark actually use slightly *more* electricity when they're off than when they're on because it's easier to short out the LED than it is to disconnect it. Of course, they use so little electricity that it really doesn't matter.
Got this from a message board. The person was having the exact same problem. Was advised to use these switches and he came back and said they work well. The Lutron Claro Illuminated Decora switches are supposedly rated for LED/CFL in addition to incandescent/halogen. Model numbers are CA-1PSNL (single pole gloss finish), SC-1PSNL (single pole satin finish), CA-3PSNL (3-way gloss finish) and SC-3PSNL (3-way satin finish).
Leaking a small amount of current through the load to run the glowy bit is being phased out, that's why there is requirement to have neutral in every box.
Your problem is caused by the wall wart itself. Cheap wall warts don't use transformers. They take the incoming AC voltage and run it trough a rectifier converting to DC, then it goes trough a DC to DC converter which drops it down to a lower DC voltage. A simple solution to this problem would be to find a transformer based wall wart with the same volts and amp specs as the cheap psu. Transformer based psu's a heavier than a cheap electronic one's, and more money.
0:42 that really luminates the bad tape job
probably will have tile over it later
@@SteviePeeOutDoorLife isn't that much to tape there, it's not that hard regardless if it's getting tiled or not
A 12 volt switching power supply for your LED's, if you want to keep the wall switche(s). You could use one switching PS to control all of them also... instead of having wall warts.
In the UK you cannot have electrical switches that close to a sink / water source. As switches can be splashed and are dangerous to operate if you have wet hands. May need to read the electrical regulations!
The GFI breakers he used cover everything on the circuit.
Supposedly Lutron claro illuminated switches work with LEDs
I can confirm the Lutrons work for me.
I thought you guys called it quits on RUclips on your last video
you didnt pay attention to the video then.
I live in New Zealand and I have achieved this in all the House's I have wired up as an electrician. Here we use completely different switches. Our switches have an LED with two tails built into the switch which have to be manually wired, one tail with the neutrals and the other with the switched line or in terminal 2 (which achieves the effect you are after)
Hope that helps. If you need me to explain more let me know.
Check out Lutron switches, I just install some led lights in my kitchen and they wouldn’t work with the old switches so a friend of mine got me two new Lutron switches that just come out, they are back lit and are dimmers also I don’t remember the item number for them but they work great you can also set the brightness you want
Roger Wandschneider Elmo, but my LUTRON DIMMER SWITCH, was a dud, Forgot what brand, but it LOOKS just like the Lytton, with the rocker switch on its bottom, Cheers 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Try using a Luton product called LUT-MLC, this go's between the neutral and hot wire at the switch or outlet. I have used this many times for that problem you are having.
They sell led compatibility dimmer switches have you tried that
You must have a bypass resistor across the circuit so the current can flow without passing the led
From what I understand about that type of LED lighting is that they are not meant to have an external( ie, the DPDT OR SPST) switch. I believe what you need to do is bypass the switch and use night lights. My best advice is; remove the 110v switch and go fom there.
Have you tried the Leviton's 6526. They even have a video on how to install.
A 240 vac light switch is a double pole in order to shut off both legs of power. I know they make ones that have the illuminated toggle on them. Maybe there is a 240 vac illuminated rocker type somewhere. Just a thought...
Get dimmer switches and move them away from the sink and don’t tie them into any other circuit. GFCI outlets are required by any water source (Kitchen, Bathroom etc)
No GFCI outlet needed if you have GFCI breaker
I'm pretty sure the have gfi brakes in most of the house. If I remember correctly they had to have them because they were living in the house pre drywall. Plus a lot of houses have switches close to the sink like that. Mine does for the garbage disposal outlet.
This LED is not dimmable!
Have you tried wiring the lighted switch into the neutral leg(white wire) coming from the wall plug and leaving the power wire(black wire) always hot?
Try it and see if it works. If it meets NEC is a separate issue.
Or use a Leviton
Outlet-to-Socket Light Plug, White Model # R52-00061-00W with a 40watt bulb plugged into the unused plug receptacle.
Video shows how you wire in two wires to the right side of the new switch, not a third one (neutral) to the connection on the other side of the switch, visible at 12:03.
Are you supposed to connect neutral to that?
In the auto lighting industry- it has the same issue regarding led bulbs. The solution there is to put a capacitor or a resistor in line to simulate the draw of incandescent. Not sure if it could apply here
Here’s the part for home led issues - (ILR-10K). PCS 10K Load resistor
Check your wiring.
The neutral can not be broken by the switch. The gold screws get the hot side and contol the flow. The dark terminal goes to the neutral side of the circuit. The bulb in the switch then has a completed path when off and the led does not see the hot side untill the switch is turned on
That was my first thought until I remembered that it wasn't the neon that was strobing. It needs a shunt capacitor at one of the outlets, or in a different use case, the fixture.
Maybe split the receptacle, one side has the lights, the other has your nightlight. Then wire in a non lighted 3-way switch to the split receptacle to power either the undercabinet light or the night light. I don't know if this meets code, btw.
Have you tried switching the input and the out put wires?
I agree with your explanation. I imagine whether or not the switch causes the strobe effect depends on the design of the LED lighting power supply. Did you try one in the bathroom yet?
the problem is the power adaptor, it is converting ac to dc for the led minis, therefore it has both a transformer and cap which is being charged by the 55vac. Install regular 120vac leds and problem will be gone.
this
I agree. It is the LED converter that is causing your problem.
This
Ran into that problem 10 years ago with led bulbs I put into my ceiling fan that was remote control. Eventually replaced the center bulb with a standard 7 watt incandescent night light bulb.
What you've been shooting for to cure the problem is a Double pole, Single throw illuminating switch. Most of these types of switches have an amber (Neon) bulb inside the switch that is connected internally on the supply side terminals of the switch.
I have a tp link smart switch that has a light in it when it’s off. It uses a neutral wire so it should not give you a problem.
Someone may have already said this but install a GE Z-Wave Plus 3-Way White/Almond Smart with LED Rocker Light Switch. Not only will you have the ability to turn the lights on and off from your phone, but they also have a small blue led (below the rocker switch) that helps you locate the switch in the dark. I have three of these installed currently in my home. They require a hot and neutral line in order to supply constant power so the z-wave components can constantly be listening for wireless on and off commands.
apart from using a relay there comes only one other non bandade solution to my mind and that would be, to use a usb soket like you used down below also for the soket where you plug the led strips in to. The internal electronics of the usb soket should waste sufficient amounts of power to keep everything off.
That's what I thought of. You are basically powering the primary coil of the step down transformer that is inside that 120 - USB converter. Although it is an inductive load instead of a resistive load, it should still provide enough resistance (a parasitic load, as Jesse called it) in order to do the trick.
You need a resistor across the capacitor to discharge the capacitor when the power to the LEDs are turned off. About a 1 megohms should suffice.
Yes that is exactly right. It's done when using LEDs on automotive light bulbs all the time
@@lennyf1957
On automotive light it's so the computer can see a load .
Without the resistor the computer will think the bulb is faulty .
Hearing someone advise a resistor across mains voltage worries me deeply.... Many better options but all dependent on the ic's being used, tools available and understanding of electronics. Also a resistor inline with one or many LED's is not an automotive thing, its a thing to not make them instantly explode. LED's are diodes, their forward current is exponentially related to voltage over their minimum forward voltage, but each one is not exactly the same so they are provided with a little to much voltage and given a resistor so they don't instantly die.
In Europe, we have this kind of technology already 20 years ago. It's pretty simple, ours switch have a hole where you can put a small led that shine throw the plastic of the switch, you connect this small led on one side to the neutral on the over side to one pole of the switch depending if you want it to be on continuously, when the light is on or when the light is off.
Lighted or lit?
What type of switch are you using SPST or SPDT? If you are using a single throw can you use a DT to jump the neutrals?
Different brands of LEDs act differently. Some blink and some just gently glow (on a glow switch). We use a glow one in our bathroom which makes a perfect night lite. We went through this a few years ago ourselves.
in the uk some dimmer switches are supplied with an inductor/resistor that has to be wired across the load to prevent this. the neutral is present in our switch backboxes.. not sure how you wire up over there
Two pole alternating switch, they do exist ;) Not sure about one with a control light , but a diode and a resistance can easily be added behind the cover (in most cases. There is already one such circuit in the current switches.
actually a single pole alternating switch is just fine, just the control circuit needs to be added between secondary hot and neutral.
I had the same problem with our porch led light when I put a digital timer to turn on the light and when the timer was off the bulb would flicker, had to change the timer to a mechanical timer and now I can use any type of bulb.
Have used Lutron Claro illuminated switches that are LED CFL compatible with success in the past. Might give them a try.
Nice position to splash water over the light switch, Uk light switch at least 300mm from sink horizontally.
The Lutron Claro Illuminated Decora switches (Home Depot) supposedly works with LED/ CFL lighting
Where's your ground wire? Most has ground and neutral in the main box tied together as that would complete the circuit.
That will not passcode anymore.
I wonder if switching the hot and commen around if it would help
I had the same problem. I just replaced the "glowing switch" with a standard outlet.
Even my LEDs that are plugged into my TV's USB port flash like that when the TV is off. So Annoying!
I believe the neon bulb in your switches probably consumes around 0.4mA. At 120V V=IR translates to 120/.0004 = 300,000 ohms. Therefore, I think a ballast resister of 300k Ohms wired from the switched side to neutral would drain away the current and stop the problem. Of course, insulating the wires going to the resister is a challenge, but heat shrink could do it.
Surely a glowing switch could lead to accidents as your concentrating on walking over to the switch and trip over unexpected obstacles? Usually a switch is located near a doorway for exactly this reason... it's easy to find in the dark! Additional switches that aren't near doorways are normally used in a 2 or more way switching arrangement, but not on their own.
The neon lamp in the switch breaks down at about 60 volts. Hence about 55 volts is presented at the receptacle. The NE2 neon lamps take a very small current but enough to charge up the LED. Often the series resistor used with the NE2 bulbs are often 20K to 56K ohms. The LED's draw so little that it is enough to charge to their trigger point.
The answer is simple, please try it just to see if I’m correct or not.
Your first drawing in the video you said the hot goes to the switch and from the switch to your lights, and your neutral goes straight to the lights. Believe it or not the problem is the neural wire. It to needs to go to the switch first just like the hot and then to the lights just like the hot.
You currently have a broken current, once you fix the neutral it won’t be broken anymore and it should all work like it should.
Like I said just try it, you have nothing to loose.
Install a Kasa TP Link smart switch. You can turn out on using an app or smart device plus there is a glowing halo on the switch when its off. I have these all over my house and work wonderful.
they make what you want, i have installed them but dont remember the brand name or where i ordered them
Sounds a lot like the "zombie" LED bulb that Steve Mould talked about in his video last year. The bulb was manufactured on the cheap and is missing a resistor so when powered off it turns the cabling in the house into a giant capacitor. in your case there should be 0V at the outlet when the switch is in the off position. I would say that you need to get different switches that glow but do not pass voltage when they are off.
If you were to come in contact with that 55volts on the outlet, the impedance of your body would likely be enough load to cause it to drop to zero or close to it.. As someone else mentioned, a UL approved wall wart typically has a resistor to discharge the capacitor once the unit is plugged in.. This "bleed" resistor is also typically enough to load down the leakage current.. The load is typically the return path for the LED or Neon bulb that illuminates the switch.
Problem is that the neon lights leak current past the switch. This slowly charges the capacitor in the LED power supply and causes the lights to flash and discharge the capacitor, rinse and repeat. Either remove the neon or put a 100K/0.5W resistor between the light PSU input terminals to prevent the charging effect. .
A Switche, that doesn't disconnect the hot wire are dangerous anyway. Even on normal light bulbs. Consider a broken bulb, full voltage where you do not expect it and trying to change the bulb. You'll ending up getting hit by the full voltage.
Not to familiar with house wiring, but could you install a small in line resistor like what would be used in a circuit board or automotive wiring. It would obviously dim the LEDs a little bit when they are turned on but may stop the flashing. Just a thought, I honestly have no clue if it is even possible.
if you can find these I think this is the ones, ........The Lutron Claro Illuminated Decora switches are supposedly rated for LED/CFL in addition to incandescent/halogen. Model numbers are CA-1PSNL (single pole gloss finish), SC-1PSNL (single pole satin finish), CA-3PSNL (3-way gloss finish) and SC-3PSNL (3-way satin finish)..
Seems wasteful and dangerous. I would have thought if the light switch is off there would be no power running through the outlet, yet there is. (Someone could get zapped). Also, it seems wasteful, as using a normal light bulb as a resistor in the circuit seems like it would use more energy than just powering the light in the switch. Even though the power going through the bulb is not enough to light it, it is still using energy. and what happens if you use one of these switches to power (for example) a garbage disposal. Could the motor be creating heat, even though not running? Or could it shorten the life of the motor?
The power is minuscule so if you had an incandescent lamp you would see zero volts across it and the switch lamp would be a bit brighter.
I installed a motion-activated switch in my bathroom and found that the 4 led bulbs put out enough light to see ok when the motion detector was off and a much brighter light when the motion was detected. So much for using a motion detector to save energy.
Put small non polar foil capacitor resistor series combo across that circuit... 0.1-1u (200-400V) +100ohm... (resistor is protection in case cap shorts it burns without tripping the fuse)
It's called leakage current.. It's a very small current that over time will charge the capacitor in the wall wart to a voltage that will activate the power supply.. When the supply activates, the current gets relatively large, thus discharging the cap.. the light goes back off.. the leakage slowly starts charging the cap again and the cycle repeats... He does a fair job at explaining this.
I have recently had this problem with the led lights that I installed down the sides of my steps. The switch I used had a red indicator light that glows when the switch is powered off. I solved it by removing the small red neon indicator light. Voltage was passing through the neon and allowing the leds to flash when enough voltage had built up.
Really surprised the second switch didn’t work, Possibly the reason was the line (hot) is directional so you needed to swap them. I ran into issues while installing WiFi switches with led floodlights, as a lot of the switches are dimmable and the led lights I have are not.
The Lutron Claro Illuminated Decora switches are supposedly rated for LED/CFL in addition to incandescent/halogen. Model numbers are
CA-1PSNL (single pole gloss finish), SC-1PSNL (single pole satin finish), CA-3PSNL (3-way gloss finish) and SC-3PSNL (3-way satin finish). (found this online)
If Switching points(inside switch) are in more distance then normal ,then it may stop to flow voltage leakge ,which causing to charge the cap
Since i switch to led - my power bill doped by 40% . Now it`s 4-5 years and no problems.
Lighted smart switches have the required circuitry because they DO something locally. Have that on my kitchen florescent light.
If you’re running romex/NMB wire (which applies to the vast majority of residential homes) why would you NOT have a neutral in the box?
Most of the cheaper switches use a cheap (neon?) bulb that doesn't behave well if the load is too low (i.e. relatively efficient and bucket-charger like those LED lights have). The bigger light like above your sink may just have enough charge, but it can be borderline too. I switched over to a slightly more upmarket switch type that has a LED light inside it. That has a very, very low power use and it avoids the flicker you are seeing. The ones I have are from a brand called Veto, which I'm unsure if you have in the US, but it is likely a more expensive switch will work well.