She takes up 3 deployment limit for a single big dragon, she's a good operator to have, but still not a "character that can carry everything" Like.. have you guys seen her being used in extreme risk CCB#1 Pyrolysis?
I got Archetto when I first started the game. When I checked the tier list, I saw her at pretty low tier, that make me really sad but I decided to keep her. Then I realize I was looking at the wrong list, she's actually alright to use. Then I got Mountain like 2 weeks later, and two of them help me a lot in newbie content cause I don't even bother searching for guide. My account is pretty decent now and I must said that I still use Mountain in every map I play (except IS) , he's litterally my safeguard. But Archetto, I sometimes use her for additional range in S3, she's lacking a lot of damage in hard content.
It depends on what gamemode you play cause in IS content, Archetto with Artifacts is whack OP. Even myself use Kroos and The Keen Glint as my snipers for IS, I replaced her for Archetto. Exusiai is okay in IS but since it is a Rougelike Mode, Archetto's S3 Manual Activation saves me alot from most of the enemies of when I could and should press the skill. And with artifacts, she carried me all the way to D15 both IS3 and IS4. She's also great in RA2. But yeah, for general content, marksman like Exia and Ash rules.
My friend, upon introducing me to the game, told me that I should try and get Thorns and restart if I didn't get them. I got Mountain, and she was like "oh shit ok, keep him". Then I ended up getting Thorns from recruitment two months later.
I can tell your friend plays for the meta... nothing wrong with that, but flametail is super fun to use, cheeto is cute, Suzuran is BROKEN, and weedy is funny (egg copypasta moment) so I built them all lol
@@zenmode3125Eh… I find Flametail isn’t worth it in Integrated Strategy. 6 DP cost for a tiny stun? Artefacts that rely on dodge are generally bad and there’s the stun related ones that require at least a FULL SECOND to actually do damage. Texas is not only cheaper hope wise. But performs really well. Plus Thorns was my first 6 Star. And he is well worth the investment.
Let me cut it very short: you only really need to reroll if you get Weedy - the only not-newbie-friendly operator from the banner (and this relates to all the general content especially if you are not a TD veteran and follow the guides to pass the story stages).
Can attest to this, weedy is an outstanding operator for her niche but she really only gets to that performance at e2 and sadly because of that shes just a subpar expensive to raise aoe guard for new accounts. Good thing tho is if you did get her in the newbie pool as first 6*, its no big deal and you can freely reroll without wasting time
The way HG changed newbie banner again but still keeping Mountain and Thorns are prove of their worth, even veterans and end game player still recommend to get them. They both are good for this content of the game even when so many broken operators have released.
Yup. Plus if anyone reading this is ever lucky enough to get Pozyemka (The Pink haired Lupo.). BUILD THEM UP AND GET THEIR MODULE! POZYEMKA IS CONSIDERED A CARRY OPERATOR FOR IS3!
When I first started I got Suzu in one ten pull and then two copies of thorns in the next, I didn’t understand how good that was at the time but my friend who played was freaking out
raise your 6* burst dps first such as eyja silverash mlynar etc. and e2 them right away, use lower rarity for the rest of the squad, you can use those lower rarity operators in different modes too. One more thing you need to know if you're a newbie is you can't rely on yt tier list like this one, most of them are not accurate.
I'd argue this is a solid tier list. e2-ing an operator from the get go is not a really good move for newbies since they will start to rely on them too much. They also have really very limited resource to split between alot of units
Tf u yapping about bruh 🤣🤣. This is early banner, how on earth newbie will get resource directly to E2 there operator and since when eyja silverash and mlynar in the begginer banner, bro you should try to watch the video carefully not spreading ur dipshit.
imho if u want the best option possible id say if u dont get thorns or mountain - being thorns the best overall operator tourghout the game with the module, but VERY underwelming before e2 compared to mountain- just reroll the account. suzu is quite underwelming before skill 3, skill 2 takes two eons to charge if u dont have batteries.
Personal take. Archetto - Pretty good but she is pretty mid both early and late but there are a lot of better snipers in the game. Flametail - Also pretty good but again there are just a lot better vanguards to pick even at lower rarity in my book. Mountain - Great and solid guard that can lock down a lane but in my opinion he suffers a bit early game since he really need the beefyness of late game to really shine and at that point he can probably be brought to any content pretty much. Suzuran - Also a great and solid support and in my opinion she is propably at her best early game since arts damage really shines early game and in early game the slow effect really makes an impact while late game you might not even need to bring a slower for a lot of the content since the enemies just dies so fast and you probably want more dmg then a slower, she can work as a healer + slower with S3 and she is still good late game and even clutch on some stages but she can't really perform at her best in all stages. Thorns - Pretty good but also not great in early game but once he goes into late game and unlocks S3 you can pretty much bring Thorns to every stage in the game for great effect, Thorns is probably the only unit here that will shine anywhere in late game. Weedy - Pretty good both early and late game but not really that great outside of some specific stages. But yeah Mountain or Thorns would be my first pick on this kind of banner.
A bit too late commenting on this video but isn't Weedy a decent substitute as an AOE Guard considering her general stats are higher than most AOE guards on the early game plus the stun on her skill 1 is also quite useful.
Actually with the upcoming "6 Star Selector Ticket" for older players the best reroll now would be either: Suzuran + Mountain or Suzuran + Thorns And then get Saria
@@MageofFlowers-UwU OMG finally, my chance of having a 6* AOE guard ❤️ Though if the selector includes Ifrit/Surtr/Goldenglow I'm definitely taking them. Thank you very much for the info!
@@MageofFlowers-UwU Ohhh nice, thanqiu so much! If it's possible, do you know where/what I could search for more info regarding the selector & time? It'd help me to plan my pulls & savings better, especially with all the upcoming great banners like Walter, Ela, Eyjalter, etc 😵💫
Man it's been that long huh. I remember my first beginner banner operators (I'm Year 1 Global). Hoshiguma followed by Shining and Silverash. My account has never felt more secure
i'd argue archetto has more value than exu due to her ability to hit multiple enemies, giving her a "niche" compared to exu where she only has damage, and when you take def calcs into account exu starts falling off REALLY hard to the point the damage she deals is insignificant, lower rarity marksmen (May for slow/stun, Meteor for defshred, Platinum for long range + AFK, BP for DoT, Krooster for stuns, Insider for long-ranged weapon prio) have their own niches that make them more interesting choices than exu, but if you're building a 6* marksman, just get archetto, you're not missing out from not having exu when you take powercreep into account + buffers are just generally worse than debuffers in the current state of the game. As for ash, she REALLY needs the enemy to be stunned to deal damage, she's not worth it unless you're way too baited for her "true limited" status.
Exu is a pure damage dealer if she isn't dealing enough damage then one buff from Warfarin should do it, if not maybe change to Arts damage; The reason I recommended her isn't only because she is slightly better, but because it is better to choose another operator from S tier then get Exu when you have enough certs for her
@@dagyoo I mean, i would but like she suffers (more like her archetype than anything else) from how defense is calculated really badly (not as bad as fighters but they still do), other snipers just straight up ignore a huge chunk of defense, if not dealing high damage to break past defense, whereas marksmen's low DP cost does nothing to help them to stay even relevant in the current game. Heck, i only use insider just for extra ammo for FedEx, other than that my experience using him was nothing short of unremarkable, moreso with his other peers. As for using arts instead, HG cannot design a caster that can actually do things against enemies who have high DEF & RES (lets not forget dmg reduc/dodge) unless if your name is Logos.
Exusiai is better than Archetto she's one of the best operators in the game to deal with low armor targets fast, Exusiai DPS is higher against most targets plus Exusiai has a much faster attack speed meaning her skills charges much faster. Remember Exusiai self buffs when deployed by +15 ASPD and 8% ATK making maxed Exusiai base attack 725 vs Archetto 666. So the only real situation where Archetto is better is against a large number of tightly packed mobs with skill 2, if you want extended range with skill3 you are better off with Platinum.
thinking about nearly 4 hears ago, when I started playing and got Angelina as my first 6*🙏🏼 couldn't get a more useless operator for a beginner if I tried (I love her but as a beginner she's just- way worse than anyone else)
Hi i started with Archetto, seems fine right now (around e1lvl 40), i'm confused on the kernel banner, i know it's for older operators, but when is really worth pulling here? Especially now with all the limited characters and the good new characters
@@rizlas98 Don't pull on kernel unless its a character you really really want. Also the upcoming banners are absolutely stacked so even more reason not to pull on kernel
There's some really solid units on the kernel banner, but it's best to save gold certs and get anyone you want from the shop. Keep an eye out for yellow tags on recruitment too, since they can net you 5/6* units that are on the kernel banners
Newbies usually clear annis using guides, and those guides use a bunch of various 6-star operators as support units, so they'll still need to clear most of annis with the help of a support unit, so no difference at all. And if you mean annis 1-3 to autofarm, there are guides using ONLY low-rarity operators for that purpose.
@@Kyokka when you use support unit you can farm that anni at all so as you can see in every anni always has thorn and he almost do all the job there with some optimize you can farm the latest anni but well that's not important at all
@@sokchanpkay916 When you use a Support unit, you can clear old Annihilations once, which is enough to gather the clearance rewards. For newbies' farm, Anni 2-3 exist.
@@sokchanpkay916you can always use low rarity guides to complete anni 1-3 and just do them for weekly orundums. For the training/rolling annis you could just finish them once with a support unit to get the first-clear rewards, no need to farm there.
I wouldn't really rank Thorns as a S tier he's not really beginner friendly and needs lots of resource investment to be of any real use, same can be said of Suzuran.
For newbie its better to not reroll for flametail, weedy and archetto because there are better low rarity alternatives. For flametail, 4*mytrle does way better in dp printing although having paper thin def and 1 block...its easier to get her for recruitment or buy the starter pack. For weedy u get another hooker free anyway who does the job fine. For Archetto...3* kroos does the job done. Mainly focus on rerolling for either mountain or thorns I would also recommend E2 upgrading a 4*star first for the low cost and it allows the friend support ops to be E2 too.
IMO they should include one six star for every general class (VG, Guard, Caster, Defender, Supporter, Medic, Specialist). Tho I guess having Thorns and Mountain in early banner helps make it easier for newbies to get into the current AK events
putting thorn in A tier is criminal, putting mountain in S tier is beyond comprehension, now i get why people dont do tier list anymore, this tier list needs more evaluation beforehand by other veterans and casual arknight players
1st tier list is for their value as at e1 as new players can't immediately promote a 6* to e2, of course thorns is not that good without his s3 Also I don't get your dislike on mountain rate, is absolutely accurate, he's cheap to deploy, afk, can self heal, it's an excellent laneholder even on late-game and just gets better after e2, he IS the best option a newbie could ask for, alongside blaze
It's not a bad list. The A tier one is his E1 tier list as this cover early game progression for new players as well where they will be stuck with E1 for a decent amount of time before they even get the first 6* to E2 unless they start opening the wallet. Mountain is one of the rare exception where his most used skill is in E1 so he's already good from E1 with minimal investment. So if you stick around a bit longer, he has the more farmed account tier list later on where Thorn is in S tier again and just like Mountain where they're both easy go-to winning option for 95%+ of the contents.
Tbh the downside of mountain is that he cant really handle high defense enemies, but thorn before module cant as well. The different in damage will be much more noticeable when thorn got his module which will make him reliable against def with the mixed art damage ... which we still took a while to come in global anyway
![Tier List - Wisadel/Logos/Civilight Eterna 1/11/2024 - Arknights [Global Server]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xpsoSaCCZtg/mqdefault.jpg)
"Arknights isn't a one-character-can-carry-everything type of game"
Meanwhile blue woman:
Ling is a different type of breed 😂
Also, nuke cockroach
😂
Mostima the blue woman
Laughs in Wisadel
She takes up 3 deployment limit for a single big dragon, she's a good operator to have, but still not a "character that can carry everything"
Like.. have you guys seen her being used in extreme risk CCB#1 Pyrolysis?
I got Archetto when I first started the game. When I checked the tier list, I saw her at pretty low tier, that make me really sad but I decided to keep her. Then I realize I was looking at the wrong list, she's actually alright to use. Then I got Mountain like 2 weeks later, and two of them help me a lot in newbie content cause I don't even bother searching for guide. My account is pretty decent now and I must said that I still use Mountain in every map I play (except IS) , he's litterally my safeguard. But Archetto, I sometimes use her for additional range in S3, she's lacking a lot of damage in hard content.
Don't play for meta.....play for waifu
@@putrakacak5994who are you telling them what to do?
Be like me and let Arknight discord decide what I E2 next
It depends on what gamemode you play cause in IS content, Archetto with Artifacts is whack OP. Even myself use Kroos and The Keen Glint as my snipers for IS, I replaced her for Archetto. Exusiai is okay in IS but since it is a Rougelike Mode, Archetto's S3 Manual Activation saves me alot from most of the enemies of when I could and should press the skill. And with artifacts, she carried me all the way to D15 both IS3 and IS4. She's also great in RA2. But yeah, for general content, marksman like Exia and Ash rules.
@@wickeddave5148 ?
My friend, upon introducing me to the game, told me that I should try and get Thorns and restart if I didn't get them.
I got Mountain, and she was like "oh shit ok, keep him".
Then I ended up getting Thorns from recruitment two months later.
I can tell your friend plays for the meta... nothing wrong with that, but flametail is super fun to use, cheeto is cute, Suzuran is BROKEN, and weedy is funny (egg copypasta moment) so I built them all lol
@@zenmode3125Eh… I find Flametail isn’t worth it in Integrated Strategy. 6 DP cost for a tiny stun? Artefacts that rely on dodge are generally bad and there’s the stun related ones that require at least a FULL SECOND to actually do damage. Texas is not only cheaper hope wise. But performs really well. Plus Thorns was my first 6 Star. And he is well worth the investment.
Let me cut it very short: you only really need to reroll if you get Weedy - the only not-newbie-friendly operator from the banner (and this relates to all the general content especially if you are not a TD veteran and follow the guides to pass the story stages).
Can attest to this, weedy is an outstanding operator for her niche but she really only gets to that performance at e2 and sadly because of that shes just a subpar expensive to raise aoe guard for new accounts. Good thing tho is if you did get her in the newbie pool as first 6*, its no big deal and you can freely reroll without wasting time
you also can reroll if you get suzuran, she wont do anything until you build a solid dps. good long term, bad short and midterm investment
@@L_Nivale agreed
The way HG changed newbie banner again but still keeping Mountain and Thorns are prove of their worth, even veterans and end game player still recommend to get them. They both are good for this content of the game even when so many broken operators have released.
Yup. Plus if anyone reading this is ever lucky enough to get Pozyemka (The Pink haired Lupo.).
BUILD THEM UP AND GET THEIR MODULE! POZYEMKA IS CONSIDERED A CARRY OPERATOR FOR IS3!
When I first started I got Suzu in one ten pull and then two copies of thorns in the next, I didn’t understand how good that was at the time but my friend who played was freaking out
raise your 6* burst dps first such as eyja silverash mlynar etc. and e2 them right away, use lower rarity for the rest of the squad, you can use those lower rarity operators in different modes too. One more thing you need to know if you're a newbie is you can't rely on yt tier list like this one, most of them are not accurate.
I'd argue this is a solid tier list. e2-ing an operator from the get go is not a really good move for newbies since they will start to rely on them too much. They also have really very limited resource to split between alot of units
Tf u yapping about bruh 🤣🤣. This is early banner, how on earth newbie will get resource directly to E2 there operator and since when eyja silverash and mlynar in the begginer banner, bro you should try to watch the video carefully not spreading ur dipshit.
@@natdihyan3543 should e2 someone like myrtle for cheap just to get access to borrowing e2 imo
imho if u want the best option possible id say if u dont get thorns or mountain - being thorns the best overall operator tourghout the game with the module, but VERY underwelming before e2 compared to mountain- just reroll the account. suzu is quite underwelming before skill 3, skill 2 takes two eons to charge if u dont have batteries.
Dude... I rerolled for degenbrecher and got mountain in the beggining banner later.... yup 😅
Personal take.
Archetto - Pretty good but she is pretty mid both early and late but there are a lot of better snipers in the game.
Flametail - Also pretty good but again there are just a lot better vanguards to pick even at lower rarity in my book.
Mountain - Great and solid guard that can lock down a lane but in my opinion he suffers a bit early game since he really need the beefyness of late game to really shine and at that point he can probably be brought to any content pretty much.
Suzuran - Also a great and solid support and in my opinion she is propably at her best early game since arts damage really shines early game and in early game the slow effect really makes an impact while late game you might not even need to bring a slower for a lot of the content since the enemies just dies so fast and you probably want more dmg then a slower, she can work as a healer + slower with S3 and she is still good late game and even clutch on some stages but she can't really perform at her best in all stages.
Thorns - Pretty good but also not great in early game but once he goes into late game and unlocks S3 you can pretty much bring Thorns to every stage in the game for great effect, Thorns is probably the only unit here that will shine anywhere in late game.
Weedy - Pretty good both early and late game but not really that great outside of some specific stages.
But yeah Mountain or Thorns would be my first pick on this kind of banner.
Well, I rerolled on the wis'adel and logos banner and got them both in 15 pulls on my 10th reroll.
I then got mountain from the beginner banner.
A bit too late commenting on this video but isn't Weedy a decent substitute as an AOE Guard considering her general stats are higher than most AOE guards on the early game plus the stun on her skill 1 is also quite useful.
Actually with the upcoming "6 Star Selector Ticket" for older players the best reroll now would be either:
Suzuran + Mountain
or
Suzuran + Thorns
And then get Saria
I keep hearing about a 6* selector ticket, is it smtg like the 30$ thingy, or smtg like the 5* selector that they'll give in mail?
@@LuposOverFelines its free.
It will have:
Saria, Thorns, Blaze, SilverAsh and 1 or 2 others
@@MageofFlowers-UwU OMG finally, my chance of having a 6* AOE guard ❤️ Though if the selector includes Ifrit/Surtr/Goldenglow I'm definitely taking them.
Thank you very much for the info!
@@LuposOverFelines i think Ifrit was on it?
@@MageofFlowers-UwU Ohhh nice, thanqiu so much! If it's possible, do you know where/what I could search for more info regarding the selector & time? It'd help me to plan my pulls & savings better, especially with all the upcoming great banners like Walter, Ela, Eyjalter, etc 😵💫
Man it's been that long huh. I remember my first beginner banner operators (I'm Year 1 Global). Hoshiguma followed by Shining and Silverash. My account has never felt more secure
and of course I got weedy but a bit late to reroll now, 7 months in...
i'd argue archetto has more value than exu due to her ability to hit multiple enemies, giving her a "niche" compared to exu where she only has damage, and when you take def calcs into account exu starts falling off REALLY hard to the point the damage she deals is insignificant, lower rarity marksmen (May for slow/stun, Meteor for defshred, Platinum for long range + AFK, BP for DoT, Krooster for stuns, Insider for long-ranged weapon prio) have their own niches that make them more interesting choices than exu, but if you're building a 6* marksman, just get archetto, you're not missing out from not having exu when you take powercreep into account + buffers are just generally worse than debuffers in the current state of the game.
As for ash, she REALLY needs the enemy to be stunned to deal damage, she's not worth it unless you're way too baited for her "true limited" status.
Exu is a pure damage dealer if she isn't dealing enough damage then one buff from Warfarin should do it, if not maybe change to Arts damage; The reason I recommended her isn't only because she is slightly better, but because it is better to choose another operator from S tier then get Exu when you have enough certs for her
What about Archetto-Exusiai first skill combo?
I agree with this, I mainly open up my IS runs with her cause she lane holds better than Exu using her 2nd skill.
@@dagyoo I mean, i would but like she suffers (more like her archetype than anything else) from how defense is calculated really badly (not as bad as fighters but they still do), other snipers just straight up ignore a huge chunk of defense, if not dealing high damage to break past defense, whereas marksmen's low DP cost does nothing to help them to stay even relevant in the current game. Heck, i only use insider just for extra ammo for FedEx, other than that my experience using him was nothing short of unremarkable, moreso with his other peers. As for using arts instead, HG cannot design a caster that can actually do things against enemies who have high DEF & RES (lets not forget dmg reduc/dodge) unless if your name is Logos.
Exusiai is better than Archetto she's one of the best operators in the game to deal with low armor targets fast, Exusiai DPS is higher against most targets plus Exusiai has a much faster attack speed meaning her skills charges much faster.
Remember Exusiai self buffs when deployed by +15 ASPD and 8% ATK making maxed Exusiai base attack 725 vs Archetto 666.
So the only real situation where Archetto is better is against a large number of tightly packed mobs with skill 2, if you want extended range with skill3 you are better off with Platinum.
thinking about nearly 4 hears ago, when I started playing and got Angelina as my first 6*🙏🏼 couldn't get a more useless operator for a beginner if I tried (I love her but as a beginner she's just- way worse than anyone else)
Now im just upset i soent all my rolls on the current beginer banner now that i know their overhaling it
Please never pull on kernel unless there arent any operators in the upcoming months you want, or there is 1 operator you really really like.
Hi i started with Archetto, seems fine right now (around e1lvl 40), i'm confused on the kernel banner, i know it's for older operators, but when is really worth pulling here? Especially now with all the limited characters and the good new characters
@@rizlas98 Don't pull on kernel unless its a character you really really want. Also the upcoming banners are absolutely stacked so even more reason not to pull on kernel
There's some really solid units on the kernel banner, but it's best to save gold certs and get anyone you want from the shop. Keep an eye out for yellow tags on recruitment too, since they can net you 5/6* units that are on the kernel banners
@@exosteI what i tought, thx for the confirmation
@@Yama048 i see, waiting for the rotations then, thx
thx for the video
Mountain for is good for story mode and early game but thorn will help newbie clear lot of anni
Newbies usually clear annis using guides, and those guides use a bunch of various 6-star operators as support units, so they'll still need to clear most of annis with the help of a support unit, so no difference at all. And if you mean annis 1-3 to autofarm, there are guides using ONLY low-rarity operators for that purpose.
@@Kyokka when you use support unit you can farm that anni at all so as you can see in every anni always has thorn and he almost do all the job there with some optimize you can farm the latest anni but well that's not important at all
@@sokchanpkay916 When you use a Support unit, you can clear old Annihilations once, which is enough to gather the clearance rewards. For newbies' farm, Anni 2-3 exist.
@@sokchanpkay916you can always use low rarity guides to complete anni 1-3 and just do them for weekly orundums. For the training/rolling annis you could just finish them once with a support unit to get the first-clear rewards, no need to farm there.
I wouldn't really rank Thorns as a S tier he's not really beginner friendly and needs lots of resource investment to be of any real use, same can be said of Suzuran.
For newbie its better to not reroll for flametail, weedy and archetto because there are better low rarity alternatives.
For flametail, 4*mytrle does way better in dp printing although having paper thin def and 1 block...its easier to get her for recruitment or buy the starter pack.
For weedy u get another hooker free anyway who does the job fine.
For Archetto...3* kroos does the job done.
Mainly focus on rerolling for either mountain or thorns
I would also recommend E2 upgrading a 4*star first for the low cost and it allows the friend support ops to be E2 too.
I only know reroll is an option after a month of playing 😂😂
who did you get?
@@dagyoo I got Angelina.
@@Shiroi6745❤ my first 6 star as well.. everyone hated her 4 years ago 😂
Really don't get why they even put Weedy on the beginner banner.
IMO they should include one six star for every general class (VG, Guard, Caster, Defender, Supporter, Medic, Specialist). Tho I guess having Thorns and Mountain in early banner helps make it easier for newbies to get into the current AK events
putting thorn in A tier is criminal, putting mountain in S tier is beyond comprehension, now i get why people dont do tier list anymore, this tier list needs more evaluation beforehand by other veterans and casual arknight players
1st tier list is for their value as at e1 as new players can't immediately promote a 6* to e2, of course thorns is not that good without his s3
Also I don't get your dislike on mountain rate, is absolutely accurate, he's cheap to deploy, afk, can self heal, it's an excellent laneholder even on late-game and just gets better after e2, he IS the best option a newbie could ask for, alongside blaze
It's not a bad list. The A tier one is his E1 tier list as this cover early game progression for new players as well where they will be stuck with E1 for a decent amount of time before they even get the first 6* to E2 unless they start opening the wallet. Mountain is one of the rare exception where his most used skill is in E1 so he's already good from E1 with minimal investment.
So if you stick around a bit longer, he has the more farmed account tier list later on where Thorn is in S tier again and just like Mountain where they're both easy go-to winning option for 95%+ of the contents.
Tbh the downside of mountain is that he cant really handle high defense enemies, but thorn before module cant as well. The different in damage will be much more noticeable when thorn got his module which will make him reliable against def with the mixed art damage ... which we still took a while to come in global anyway
You know Thorns is worse lane holder than Mountain in E1 right?
Thorn is basically useless unless you E2 him. A beginner will not have the resources to E2 thorns