Nice video, I've noticed it in games before, start simple then go complex, but didn't really think about it applying to operators. Also, Happy Birthday!
Personally I just assumed bad operators exist to push people to roll banners more often if you get a bad operator then you’re more likely to keep rolling or spending to get a good operator and this goes doubly so for limited banners.
honestly i dont think any operators are bad it's just their kit may not be as optomized as other charcters and is why we get power creap but i dont think it's that big of a deal since we can still clear all content with only 3 stars
The "Johnny says: My operators are tools" quote from the last video, made me think of the discussion like this... -"The Timmy": My operators are my toys. Why would I wanna spend so much time talking/thinking about everything they're good for besides the thing I want them to do? -"The Johnny": My operators are my tools. Some are more or less useful, but the only "bad *tool*" is one that's not sufficient even in their ideal use. I want to maintain my tools to find their sufficient uses and creative interactions. -"The Spike": My operators are my employees. They will undergo performance evaluations, and out of this particular principle I can't "hire" someone directly worse. Their overall payoff for their cost - including the deficits they fill and the heights they break - is the first factor in their promotion. Perhaps this is also a "hierarchy of needs"...
In essence, that is what the whole mantra of 'waifu over meta' is about. In a good game (like Arknights), you can overcome everything with skill and knowledge, but in a lot of bad gacha games you NEED the Spike mentality to clear everything and that is what poisons the well, even for good games that don't need that mentality. I would argue that a lot of Spikes were created by the necessity in bad gacha games to play like a Spike or simply lose. An example of that is the decision in a lot of games to push the player in the direction of the latest released character. Like when Genshin releases a new Spiral Abyss that has buffs that are tailored for the last released hyped character, like more damage while having a shield while the banner of shield god XY is open for gambling, or how Reverse 1999 ran into it even worse with the newly released raids that were impossible to fully clear without the EXACT banner character that was released alongside it. (The boss was designed to only take pure damage at some point making every other way to dps basically worthless, and somehow it was vulnerable to the star element, and the only character that dealt pure damage that wasn't plant element was said released character, which meant you either rolled, got and build said character or you had nearly no chance of clearing that raid fully. They backpaddled after some backlash, so now you are still rewarded using the newly released character, but at least it isn't impossible with other characters.)
100 billion% correct This is something I have tried stressing in my previous video, but I think you put it in a very nice way. The nature of a lot of gacha games being very predatory in nature will lead towards really poorly designed games that force a Spike mindset onto players. This mindset is then transferred into games like Arknights, where it is entirely optional to play like that. But of course, when you have these kinds of players from other games coming into Arknights, some apply that logic to Arknights, when it doesn't apply in the slightest.
@@BloopsArknights When watching someone new stream Arknights for the first time the most dreaded question I don't want to hear is 'Is this operator good?'
Pleaseee.. The power creeping in Reverse are so so bad with how each character kept getting stronger and stronger making more stronger enemies which you need the new character to counter that enemy..
I rolled Mlyner on banner TWICE [had an alt,] and while I built him I rarely use him, /because/, he's the flat "win"button, like cool but I have 12 slots and I would like to use them..... Stuff like Degen, Texalt, Sutr, Mlynr, Thorns, Blaze, are nice but their key-stone utility can mean often use them instead of actually trying to play which is the mixed blessing of high difficult content as you can use your "WIN" ops to their full potential. Though also like in the current snow event or DOS etc. it can just turn into, I don't have the op, I'm tired, please just let me get my rubber stamp and move on.
@@IrvineTheHunter This is so true, like I only dust off my Surtr and Mlynar when I'm EXTREMELY sick of failing a particular stage over and over again and when I then inevitably win with them I feel... nothing, really. I'd much rather have 12 'mediocre/bad' Ops each doing their own little thing at different points instead of just two taking care of the entire stage
the main problem I have with this rhetoric is that a lot of what you says kind of conflates being bad with being interesting when it really, really isnt. will these operators be worse than the strongest? yes, but they could be mediocre instead of bad. I do agree that overpowered operators are less interesting but my argument remains the same, if you're really talking about interesting, mediocre is generally better than bad For leto for example, you say that she's designed for a niche, supporting the ursus students, and it's therfore fine that she's weak because she's not designed for those who chase meta, but the thing is, there's no reason for her to be as weak as she is. Leto could have very easily been an actually niche operator if her s2 force activates skills off cooldown, but it doesnt, so she's instead just a somewhat mediocre buffer within a niche. A lot of bad operators are like this, they are not only bad from a meta perspective, but also not as interesting as they could be, they're kneecapped for no good reason. I'm a person who will defend operators like fucking Spuria for many of the reasons you outline, as while they're not great they do shine in what they try to do (with spuria being the best buffer in the game for the likes of schwarz), but it's also stupid to pretend that these operators being bad is what makes them appeal when they could be mediocre and probably appeal more to more people while still retaining 99% of the the appeal they currently have. I agree on many of your other points, some operators are worse than others to be simple for new players, some operators are just worse because that's inevitable, all that, i agree with, but I cant agree with you that the bad operators are bad to be appealing to nicher players, they could very well be mediocre instead of bad.
I will point to point 1 and 7: - There has to be bad operators: some operators are bad simply because they are baseline to rate other ops. I would say Frostleaf and any bad early operators belong to that. OP already explained it. If you rate all the operators from SS to F and delete all operators below S, there is still the worst operator in S tier. Viviana is also another example of a bad operator because they are the baseline (in Viviana case the baseline is a SS tier operator so she is bad lol) - Point 7: Some bad is simply R&D goofing up. I think this is a very imporatant point that OP didn't talk about. Many of the worst new release are simply HG trying new idea. Crushers are the example. They tried new archetype with Quartz and Wind Chimes. Didn't work. Eventually they reached it with Hoerder and Ulpianus. Pretty sure Spuria is the victim of experiment too.
@@anhkhoanguyen8562 i honestly dont know what you're trying to say, may you expand on what you're trying to say? are you defending me? because your points dont do anything as far as countering my points go.
Something that I realized about a different game it's in the subject. I remember when I got into genshin and a lot of people said that Amber is a bad character because of this or that, but a lot of people don't realized that she is supose to be a character that helps the player get used to the game, since she is the first character that a player get, use a new play style with her bow, has a pyro vision that does the most usesul combos and has a bunny that aggros the enemies giving helping the player learn the combat at the start. Great video by the way, always happy to see people talking about the different kinds of character and ways to play the game
They exist so we have something to actually complain about the game Also love what you're doing, there should be some pushback against 'Just Surtr it' notions and have people be more open about experimenting with the game
From my own experience, i find that using operators that you enjoy and then adapting your playstyle to suit your tastes feels way better than just going after the most optimal solution. I felt that especially after i spent a considerable amount of time tailoring my WD-8 clear in a way that would allow for Viviana to finish the boss, and it felt awesome(although i was quite exhausted by the end of it lmao). I don't think there are "universally bad" operators because all of them have been used to great effect by someone at some point, and that someone probably had lots of fun with said operator. At the end of the day, as long as you're enjoying the operators you're playing with, that operator is fulfilling its purpose, and that's what matters the most.
I did something similar in this event and and found myself feeling really proud of myself when I did It: I really wanted Viviana to tank Harold in the Ex-8 CM and It turns out she can, but she needs Quercus (or any kind of sanctuary, It can be hoederer backing her up) and a little HP buff (I used eyjaberry, but could be any HP buff, like virtuosa and so on). Harold was hitting 2.9k ish of damage with Quercus, and vivi has 2920 HP at Max lvl. So I was just shy of a few points of HP. But I digress, the main point here is the proudness I felt when I did It. And It was amazing.
I think OP is attributing way too much credit and forethought to HG for making bad operators. Bad operators are just a consequence of imperfect developers and game design. If bad operators were always intentional, then HG would not have had to buff Passenger not just once, but twice. HG has many designers, both on the character and map side, and they won't always come into perfect congruence each time. Sometimes, the stars align, sometimes, they don't. As long as HG can keep making interesting characters and keep the game and story engaging, that's good enough for me.
Can we give Hypergryph flak for how they implement modules? They had an opportunity to fix units and buff older ones to become more usable. Instead they focus its implementation on subclasses with a one patch fix all + making the units traits a bit stronger. I also feel like they sort of create modules with a new operator in mind, so you sort of need to get their module. Yes I saw SUPAH's video recently. Also don't get me started with the modules scarcity.
Yeah this. This 100%. Modules should have been a way to help weaker kits shine. It's not like other gachas can't do this, Neural Cloud (NC) with its Arma Inscriptas have these buffs tailor made for each unit. Sure, Modules didn't have to appeal to everyone using that unit, even in NC one such buff improved a character's damage when survivability/bulk would have been better according to many players, but at least HG could have ensured that modules would "fix" what made a character seem weaker. They did this with Mostima, they did this with units like Shirayuki with the improved SP charge and Def Ignore to help during downtime (unless you're using S1 and you therefore benefit from the mod at all times) What we got was generic base module effects applied to all units of that job class, even the likes of Totter or Heavyrain who work very different from units of the same subclass. What we got was some modules that seem completely pointless. It's tragic
What you mean, fix units?! Didn't you see the video explaining that there is no bad operators, just bad spike players? Why fix the vanguard with 2 dp production, this operator is just for another type of player... Why fix the Defender with 1 block that can't receive sp? Just for anyone not you... Why fix the 1 block duelist that receives less damage from units he's actively not blocking!! This is to combo with something else and you just don't understand the game... In summary, game is just fiiiinnnne... /s
Modules were NEVER made in mind of fixing any units (thats what buffs are made for and yes they can happen. I mean it happened once before...). Modules are made to specialize further your unique aspects of operator, thats why they boost passives with each module buffing one passive. Sure, some give meager boosts while some get substantial boosts (glaadia comes to mind...), but they always boost existing passives. Saga is simplest example - her passives makes her regen for some time, module.makes regen stronger and last longer. The basic subclass buff is there but it's secondary, thats why its same buff for both modules that one 6 star gets - its just subclass buff to make it more....subclassy
I love Spuria. I haven't quite built her up to the level I want yet, obviously my main priority is building a strong and well-rounded squad to take on the toughest of lategame content, but as that "lategame" approaches closer and closer, along with my 1 year anniversary of playing the game, I've been thinking about what's next, how to keep things fun and challenging, and Spuria is talking to me like the Green Goblin mask. I don't even particularly like the Laterano stories, they're some of my least favorites, but something about her design, voice, and the whole mythos around her awfulness makes me want to see her work. It's the same feeling I got when I saw Passenger in the cert shop; understanding that he's a questionable investment, and that he only has a small window of viability, but loving his character so much that I want to find that window. I for one am excited to use Spuria alongside Typhon, and the upcoming Wis'adel, put her to work with Warfarin and Skalter and see if I can create something truly horrifying out of the uncontested worst operator in the game.
Great analysis that addresses multiple facets of the topic and really shows that no operator is truly "bad" by design. Though it seems like your volume's a bit lower than your usual videos haha
Something is labeled "bad" when it doesn't suit your personal choice or preference or in this game, gameplay or playstyle. And because of personal bias, one will disregard the actual usability of certain operator and shines on certain encounter.
It just sucks when an operator I want to like is bad in gameplay. Like I enjoy their character, their design, their story, but they're so bad in gameplay and I'm not skilled enough to make them work (or at the very least the process of trying to make them work is so miserable to me that I would just give up)
I spent several hours trying to get Viviana tanking Harold to work on EX-8 CM, and she kept whiffing her shield. Even had Shamare doll dropped between her CDs to keep her alive. I think she’s the perfect example of a functional operator who only looks bad because she gets compared to something better (Surtr).
@@blackhammer5035even in this example, surtr can't do what she does best against Harold. Her time on field would expire before she could defeat him. Btw, vivi can tank Harold If you give her sanctuary (Quercus is enough) and a bit more HP (I used eyjaberry). Even on her downtime in the skill.
@@blackhammer5035 thats just the thing Vivi has potentially more staying power than Surtr but surtr is guaranteed to live for a bit but unlike Surtr Vivi has a few other options put her with S1 behind Liskarm for example safe range Arts burst spam
11:16 see, this is where you lose credibility and validity of your points. Mistakes happen and they should be called our for. Underbaked goods aren't undervalued, they are just bad and sometimes poisonous. No need to defend incompetent cooks while you could pressure them to finish their cooking process.
I'm more pissed that hg clearly plays favorites on some characters and factions. Some 5 stars and even 6 stars operators get doo doo for modules. While abyssal hunters get the most broken ass modules and caracters and the in-faction boosts they give is so powerful no other in faction boosts come close to them. Let's also not talk about a year one limited six star getting the most broken LIMITED ALTER. They're not even hiding the favoritism
you mean wišadel? I dont see problem, if you dont like it why you play it then? Shes not broken shes strong, you can win the game with 4* but if you dont have a brain just use wišadel or full 6* squad. Shes boring, and strong but you dont need it, you dont play against players thats really dumb question, if you are willing to whale for character to win against AI in "fashion" thats totaly up to you.
I feel like people keep parroting these defenses of bad operators, but I feel it's a bit more context sensitive than that: Viviana is a "bad" operator, but at least she does her job well enough, even if her job is a bit niche and slightly strays from the normal archetype's role. Frostleaf can have her ASPD reduction removed and her S@ SP cost reduced by 20% and she'd still be the worst lord, but she'd be a lot more playable for her niche.
Right, I can't even keep track of how many people have jumped in to defend Viviana with the same arguments, but when you actually apply these arguments to practice they feel so useless, as if they are made up advantages.
>and slightly strays from the normal archetype's role. debatable. Bladeweavers seem more defensive then offensive despite their talent, and likely Astesia is a more common template than Surtr. For a more indept comparion * Mousse has a damage mitigation skill * Astesia has the increase DEF and blockcount * Surtr has...well her nuke skill, but also her immorality talent * Candle Knight here has a barrier, an upgrade to Astestia's S2 and a also an upgrade to Surtr's not commonly used S2 Surtr was the outlier here, not Viviana is what I'm saying.
@@rezafahlevi9659 Agreed, I feel like there are 2 big groups that just bash eachother for different reasons. Other groups of players must be exhausted from seeing all that bashing constantly.
I'm perfectly fine if you play like Spike, but damn you don't have to be so annoying about it. Some of them will literally not allow you to enjoy the game because you don't build meta units or roll for broken units and it's been a disease in the community it just makes every operator discussions feels shallow, short-sighted, and ultimately, boring. I'm sure if you've been watching a bunch of Arknights videos on RUclips, you've seen one of those guys. The other day I read somebody called Gladiia useless.
To me Spike can be very annoying, but I also see an equal amount of Johnnies if not more Johnnies than Spikes that behave with incredible toxicity as well. People that don't allow you to enjoy the meta, YOU MUST USE MY WAIFU LOSER OR YOU ARE JUST TOO BAD AT ARKNIGHTS. ALSO META ENJOYERS ARE LITERALLY RETARDED LOOK HOW EASY THE GAME BECAME WITH DEGENBRECHER IT IS A JOKE WTF ARE YOU EVEN PLAYING THE GAME FOR NOOB At this point there are too many people calling operators trash, and too many people calling other players trash for not liking suboptimal operators.
At least the like to dislike ratio seems superb. Let's gooooooo Thanks for this vid. It really is crucial to appreciate how different units in games appeal to different players. Expecting all units to be 100% efficient and optimized is a silly expectation, but I get that other players love it when everything is fully optimized and how easy and streamlined that makes things for them
I know everyone can freely to choose the ops they want. But i cant forgive dumb people who called them "bad operators" and asking "why they're exist?" without knowing anything. As we know Arknights is Strategy Games which is mean there's always exist some people who want to challenge their self with hard gameplay. Playing stages with ops limitation, using ops with unique Mechanism, or playing stage with niche squad. Arknights is not only about clearing the stages, but you can combi every operator that you have, clearing stages with ops that people can think "how can these ops can clear this stages?"
Imo bad operators are a dev mistake they don't want to fix. You can see how when many operators get released with experimental stuff, the dev thinks it's good and it fails.
@@BloopsArknights not a hot take when it's true. I believe she forced the devs to reevaluate the silence mechanic and making it a bit less clear on what can be silenced. I also think as a 5* she belongs in the tier that is still considered really strong. Feels like Hypergryph kind of stopped making strong 5* for the most part. Seems like most are now designed with some sort of flaw for the subclass to then be removed for the 6* equivalent, look at Mountain with brawlers. They just put a +1 block, make it so that his attacks hit all that are blocked, and give him a regen. He essentially is a -1 block centurion with sustain. Lappland would probably be used more if Thorns didn't exist, because her damage isn't bad at all. You just have to sort of play around with her skill activation.
I still remember how i got yelled by a certain RUclipsr when he's using Lappy for CC. "You don't know how count damage". For context, she dubbed a secret 6* for her DPS back in the early days. She's only competing against Silver Ash, Blaze, and Hellagur. And being the sole arts guard back in the day, other than Mousse, and Astesia much later.
I can't explain how nice it is to find someone sane talking about gacha games. I've somewhat burned out on interacting with Arknights' community (and most gacha communities) because of a lot of reasons, but these sorts of videos always manage to bring back some hope that there are still nuanced takes around in gacha spaces.
@@kiszkjmt8564while Skadi is better in every way, Lessing isn't that bad. His s3 does have some legit uses I wait for a fast redeploy module to make his s2 better 🤔
Don't worry, in my experience you're going to use Lessing maybe once or twice for IS4's second ending and then for about 1 in every 100 stages. (I'm completely out of resources because of him and other "mid" Ops but I regret nothing. My boy deserves some recognition.)
@@theoture732 my comment got removed?? I can't see it at least so imma say it again; he's nowhere near as good as Skadi but he has his uses, especially with s3. I've found decent use with his s3 vs d12 ending 2 IS4
nice video!!! I started playing AK at the R6 collab, with all the E0 and E1 starters operators were my 1st fully leveled operators. When I was not dependent to a friends' 6-star, I have to maximize everything with what little I have on most stages. Heck, Tachanka was my 1st E2 operator along with Frost and Blitz with underpowered medics... It was HARD to crowd-control and maintain lines with heavy enemies. Learning about buffers and debuffers, using Myrtle S2 was my ground support medic on early annihilation stages, and other mechanics is still enjoyable for a TD game or a Gacha game even. It is hard, but it still enjoyable. that maybe the reason that I never touched my Ling even after Pot-3 here, but I have to build here for harder late game someday.
Interesting video, very high quality but I do disagree. There is definitely bad operators, or at least one bad operator: Spuria. Her whole kit relies on buffing snipers, and yet when given this buff, snipers are given a perctsge chance to stun themselves each time they attack. Already the main sniper archetype, marksman, are ruled out as they have the fastest attack rate in the game, and with that chance to stun, these marksmen snipers are barely even able to get a chance to attack. The stun lasts for 1.8 seconds and has a 20 percent chance to activate, even at m3. And even on the off chance you had her, why would you build? She is not given out in the free five star selectors each new player has, and if a new player needed or wanted a buffer Warfarin is much better and much more easily attainable. Even in the lore she has a generic personality, basically Aak but watered down. Spuria even needs a healer to even stay in the battlefield, meaning she is actively diverting resources that could be used for more capable operators. Who exactly does Spuria appeal to? Maybe masochists, but even then. Fundamentally Spuria doesn’t do anything uniques or not already done better by other operators, she was dead in arrival, and I think she by herself proves that there is at least one bad operator.
Yeah Spuria is definitely the only operator that is truly "bad". Her kit is just a mess, her buffing is terrible, using her is awkward. Her kit just works against everything else, it's pretty funny how she escaped development with how bad she is
I love Spuria's design, but I have to agree that she is fundamentally flawed. She doesn't even have the excuse of being underpowered or niche like other "bad" operators. Just using her can actually sabotage your run.
I tested Spuria somewhat extensively with multiple 6* operators and learned her best synergy isn't even with high attack interval ops that can 'ignore' the stun. It's Platinum. Her talent boosts her strike power when not attacking for up to 2.5 seconds, which Spuria automatically gives via the 1.8 second delay. This allows her to go from chipping moderate to high def enemies to being able to deal more than 2k damage per hit and become a true knight assassin. The game meta has moved onto consistent and strong buffers but none of them actually reduce attack interval, so Hypergryph may have unintentionally created synergy with a day 1 operator. The problem is that it wasn't advertised with Spuria's kit and more importantly Platinum is so dated as a release op that most of these unique interactions have to be directly tested.
This entire video is exactly answer to your opinion There are people that find simple insane OP buffs or built in kits are boring For these people whats the point of playing the game where you could push one button that bulldoze everything The buff that come with a debuff price is exactly what appealing to them, challenging them to work around or minimize the effect of said debuff in a stage
Someone read the gamepress spuria article made by the biggest Spike there is. But no, she’s not all bad. Her buff is actually better than Warf’s for ops like Schwarz for example. You just have to account for lower aspd high dph ops. Also her s1 is a thing. She’s no April, but for a player like me who’s all in on RA and is preparing heavily for RA2 when that comes, I’m building as many ops that have an on deploy skill, and she’s one of the few that has them. In the end she falls into what the video talks about, just a niche ops for a specific player.
The thing with lower rarity being entrance point, it doesn't always work like that... I've had Robin built for a very long time - my first and only trapmaster - and found her borderline bad, the only great usage opportunities for her were the levels with those energy tiles charging the blue shooting towers - i could charge or regain those towers using her traps instead of sacrificing a deployment slot for an actual operator. Other than that, she was extremely underwhelming. So when Dorothy was realeased it was like easiest skip ever for me. Until one of the IS graced me with a fully built Dorothy to toy around with ( I don't remember whether it was a deep investigation or she was the 0 hope lucky chance, though). Boy, did that make me re-evaluate the trapmaster class 😮.
Reminding myself Verdant is a subpar 4* even in 4* niche eventually surprised me to great length when I found a nigh perfect niche for him in RS-EX-8. Since Harold moves so slowly, with a bit of CC, Verdant can stall Harold for quite a long time. To make it better, Verdant's substitute has a 3x3 attack range and really tanky defensive stats, making it quite good at helping to reignite the emergency heaters.
It becomes a problem when you have to have multiple operators to do the job a single operator is able to do. There are operators that clearly were intentionally made to be bad. Spuria is a prime example and even Frostleaf. Frostleaf's module doesn't really do anything other than poor rng freeze and adding a little bit of arts damage. She's still a bad operator no matter how much you sugarcoat it. There's nothing wrong with making the game harder for yourself but that doesn't mean the operator in question is usable.
This lol I find it pretty funny seeing people trying to defend bad operator because their ‘niche’ is usable in like two specific stages with that mindset of “There no bad operator,only bad doctor” really grind my gear. I do enjoy raising and playing with operator with questionable kit bake into them and finding some usage but that won’t stray them away from being absolutely garbage lol.
On the one hand, I really do not think I agree with the idea of "good" being subjective in cases like Quartz, I think she is genuinely awful in terms of her capabilities, and while I dont think efficiency = fun, I DO think its unreasonable to say "operator is good because I have fun with them". HOWEVER, uninformed hating is not helpful for anyone, so I'm gonna check your Crusher video to see what you have to say about them before I make a judgment.
there are always going to be a bad operator but its all came from each player perspective and those are not the same with each person. earthspirit S2 have synergy with gitano S2, their skill duration and downtime almost similar. savage S1 work great with relic on IS that increase damage to X% for 1 second like spinach, the other centurion that have this skill is only blaze with S1 but i doubt people even raise that skill over S2 or S3.
Great video, but you missing one point. Arknights is not the game where it's cheap or fast to build units making it basically resource management game. Throw this mind-numbing aspect or make it easier and bam even "bad" operators now have chance to shine. I personally want to build and play with niche characters, but if I invest in them most certainly I'll rob myself of rewards and resources, making the grind of building characters even more painful. In other words the whole point "the niche is alright, there are no bad ops" are coming from relatively long time players that already have squad that can beat stages if ease allowing them to dive into niches, becatthey are not losing anything. If they can't beat with picked niche, they always can grab old reliable and "cheat" or "skip" stage to get rewards and move on.
I'd wholly disagree. You dont need to minmax your resources at all to progress in Arknights. I've only been playing for 11 months and all I do is upgrade operators I find fun. Yeah these upgrades dont push you towards the end game, but I and some other players, dont want to rush to the end game. I'm fine with grinding cuz I dont feel pressured to reach the end asap.
I agree with almost everything said in this video, BUT, as a 4* only player i must say, that the problem with Verdant is not that his kit is sponge-oriented and lack DPS, is that he does not bring ANYTHING new to the 4* team. As SG once said, he is literally Beanstalk's crab but worse. We already have arts sponges like MH, Beanstalk, Gummy and most of the time its not efficient or fun to use Verdant cos he doesnt do anything besides being a sponge (and he is at most mid in his role), Gummy can heal, MH cant hold 4, Beanstalk can print DP and she is overall uniqe and universal (her module is the best of 4* period). What i love in 4* is that they are not OP, but their kit is much more interesting than 3*, every one of them can do at least 2 things good (Jaye - dps + heal, Meteor - anti-air + debuff, Mousse - debuff + dps, etc), but Verdant is just a sponge, his playstyle is way to passive
Yeah sorry man. The first 4 minutes threw me away because I didn't agree at all. The one thing I've always loved about arknights is how different operators have their own niches meaning that most of them aren't bad, it just depends on use case and what overall strategy you want to use. Even within the same classes like thorns, qiubai, silverash, arene, midnight.. they all are fairly balanced between each other. Arknights isn't super competitive so the meta balance that normally exists is a bit looser (we don't keep track of win percentages for certain ops). Also, meta doesn't define what ops can be good but rather design of stage gimmicks which can make any operator good. However, there are still some ops that are severely outclassed and need to be fixed. Angelina being one of them. This video mainly targets issues of ch'en, irene, and degen, but they all have niches especially during ss when sp gen is eliminated but you want a nuker. For arknights it isn't a big deal for other games it matters more. Thus, I disagree and think the game can be rebalanced but with modules only affect talents and not character redesigns,... Edit: just want to note, lessing and Viviana are fine. Vigil, Angelina, spuria, etc. Just need some help to make them fit better in specific roles
Kino background gameplay, showcasing exactly your arguments in real time. Also your point of Verdant not designed to carry lategame makes me thankful that HG still designs baby kiddo stages in every event before ramping it up to the EX stages for the proper status of the game. Still would not make me shy away from calling Verdant bad or at least underwhelming but i know now Arknights is partly a chill game and other part sweaty challenging. Also also a point you did not touch upon is Bad characters being those that does not work as advertised, due to HG's RNG fetish or undertuned numbers. Notable nominees being Spuria, Frostleaf, Kjera, Franka, might be more but that's what sticks to my mind. Spuria is already extensively discussed in other comments here and there. Frostleaf is advertised as this ranged guard that can slow. Neat. Except the slow is tied to her offense skill that requires several hit before the slow that means the intended target will already be closing in and the slow is irrelevant, and the slow is instead for another target, or the abysmal skill 2 but sure you can have plan around it for consistency. Oh the module? You mean 25% chance to slow at lvl 3 module? Like her kit does not show up in the game most of the time due to bad skill cycle or bad RNG reliance, that if you peel her kit away which is easy, she literally is just Midnight. That is my bar for bad ops, ops that is too are to have their kits matter that they just become a standing stat stick comparable to their weaker less star counterpart. Franka? She is just Melantha when her RNG skill does not proc. Kjera? Trust me i love and use her in IS3 a lot cause stun and frozen is needed for the flying guys, but her frozen is just another RNG proc chance, she is just Click when the freeze does not hit. GOD HG LAY OFF WITH THE RNG BULLBULL AND JUST MAKE IT ONCE EVERY 3 OR 4 ATTACKS.
Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the operator with the worst reputations as being "bad" operators? For example, do you think Frostleaf's unusual design was intended to make her more appealing to Johnnies, or does she not appeal to Johnnies either? (I have a hard time seeing Timmies and Spikes liking Frostleaf, either). Or Spuria? (Though I think I can see why a Johnny might appreciate her on an unusual "buff snipers" team using a way to get around her self stun)
I will say, some operators, even if they appeal to Johnny, may have design issues, like pre-module Frostleaf or Spuria. They do appeal to Johnny, but a bit of their "badness" does come from an area of design issues. Now, Johnny notices these issues but doesnt really care. Appeal comes from breaking the mold.
I'd like to have a range of Operator Tier between Good & Broken, which like your argument about Jessica & better Alternative. But in a game where new units get released, new enemies, new mechanic, it may be hard. Arknights, may suffer the same problem like PvZ 2 where they had so much Operators that... Useless... For example we got Gladiia, the best Puller in this game yet why should we does build Rope & Almond? Or we will get Lumen, one of the best Therapist Medic, so why would we build Ceylon? In PvZ, there are some questionable Plants like Cactus, Split Pea, Chomper, etc. They are bad, but we have a clear idea for how to improve them since we did know ALL the Zombies & Mechanic. That's why we CAN improve them, but in Live Service game like Arknights it's quite hard...
The idea of Ceylon is that she is the first implementation of her archetype in the game. There are definitely cases of operators where Hypergryph is dipping their toes in the water and see if it goes well or not. The same case definitely applies with Ceylon who's literally released on the first year of the game release. After understanding Ceylon and her issues, it seems that HG started to make much more servicable Therapist with either sustained healing, good HPS, burst heal, or just straight up something that they do patched up to a hundred (Lumen removing control effect altogether). The nature of gacha games is that it's a character collection games. You want to play the game because of the characters. You like how pretty, how handsome, how cute, how adorable, or how cool they are. Those who finds comfort in Ceylon's design (either because they love Ceylon's character or they think she fit in a certain niche) will ultimately build her anyway. META isn't the priority in Arknights because Arknights feels like a game of its own, not a money-making machine that only made certain (necessary) stage to be beatable with only particularly expensive units. Whether there is a point in building Ceylon over Lumen in the view of META is certainly questionable, but Ceylon IS a serviceable unit in most stages even if it requires heavier investment. When you already love Ceylon, nothing can get in your way. It's especially even more effective when Arknights have such a fantastic background stories for most of its characters, you can be attached to these characters so much easier. And that, backed up with the nature of Arknights as a strategy game, which will attract more people who are more keen to experimentation such and such, will certainly leave some space for Ceylon to... exist. To be playable. Same case could apply to Almond, Snowsant, Bison, Tomimi, operators that are considered to be either sub-par or a mere sidegrade to a 4*, they will still have a place in Arknights, in the eyes of certain players. That's very much the core of this video.
@@shiningnightmare5616 in short : Waifu/Husbando over Meta... well no, not only Waifu/Husbando, but Fun over Meta too That's the absolute argument, that's the reason why I build Lee, Mizuki, & Aak despite almost everyone said that they're a bad 6 stars. Also the first part of your argument is literally why I said that balancing a certain amount of unit is hard in gacha/or live service games. But- again, objectively, performence wise, they're not that good or atleast losing to a better unit (that either easier to obtain, easier to use, better performence). I can see why most people don't really understand this video, & I think I understand it
@@helmifaiz4504 I don't think Arknights is exactly striving for "balance". I'm pretty sure they are intentionally making lacks of balance as part of the game. If balance is what they are intentionally trying to keep throughout the game's lifespan, they could've just do regular adjustments like what they did to Chain Caster archetype awhile back. But they didn't. Because that's not what they're trying to do. In some way, they DO need some characters to be "underpowered". And just the idea of gacha games in general, we NEED certain characters to be underpowered, less universal, niche, or even outright outclassed by its counterparts. Arknights isn't free of guilt from marketing tactics, this is one of theirs. But compared to other gacha games that are just unforgiving for those without 6*, this game is much more generous. (Also, I don't want to say that waifu or "fun" is over META because for some, meta IS the fun. I'm more of trying to trace back to the video's point of operators very much made for different kind of players.)
i try to keep uo with the meta because i don't want to struggle too much on newer stage knowing they will only get much harder. besides, i don't spend close to $0 so tomfoolery feel a waste of resource. it gets so bad that more than half of my promoted op are 6 stars and i have 71 e2 lol
A fellow "Johnny" here~ This community really needed this video. It is honestly ridiculous that this is what's considered "controversial", really says a lot. The hate some players so commonly spew out loud is so discouraging to others who want to do something different other than following a trend. It's always "these are bad" and "those are good", never "just play the game the way you feel is most comfortable". Whether you play with Meta operators or not, there is no need to shame others for their playstyle. This is Arknights, where you can beat practically most things, by just playing how you want to. You don't need to be Spike. We are all on the same boat and playing the same game. Might as well enjoy each others company. ✨
Gauging whether an operator can be considered "good" or "bad" has always been a contentious point to me because every individual has their own standards to befit this definition. It's almost a matter of semantics in a game where nobody has to abide to ridiculous standards to get to experience almost every piece of content in the game without too much effort. As long as creative displays of strategy exist to defeat what is considered "difficult" over a very long period of time, I think it's a fairly safe assumption to say that nobody is truly "bad" to an irredeemable degree, this already forms a divergence in what I think it means. There is some nuance to apply since my own definition of good boils down to "In how many scenarios is this operator the best answer to x or y problem, and how much effort do you need for it to work ?" If the answers are "Not many" and "A lot", there is a chance that a part of this answer contains a scenario where the "worse" operator may shine brighter than the one who brings the solution in one of them. This is all extremely hypothetical and I absolutely suck at expressing myself, but I hope the idea can be conveyed somehow. At the end of the day, I myself do not appreciate how some people push forward the Spike way of playing over everything else - it encourages not to explore what could be a good door of entry to fun ventures and instead incentivizes to do something that's been "recommended" over another opinion that may not belong to both parties involved.
Personally I like lying to myself and saying they’re just sadistic monsters and like creating horrible characters to test ideas while creating good characters that people will like but hate playing also great video!!!
honestly, i really cant take the term 'bad operator' seriously because people clear max risk CC with E0 operators of all 'quality'. there is no bad operator, just people who don't want to learn how to use them- saying this as someone who personally tries to clear arknights stages the easiest way possible because I'm more interested in character lore than anything else, and i don't have the braincells to use hard units lol
@@elmataclachado I feel like you're just proving my point here. I wouldn't say "bad" but moreso "challenging" or hard to use. I don't think any operator is legitimately without use except for maybe Spuria, and even then some people have figured out some strange niches with her. But sure, if you'd like to call every operator that makes the game BabyEasyMode for you good, go ahead !
Wait why do you pronounce Skadi’s name like that?! That sounds vile 😭 And I resent having Viviana in the thumbnail. I know why you did it but I feel like I have to present a whole slideshow to defend why she isn’t bad when people say that LOL
A nice, fun, and casual oriented analisis. Not every Doctor HAS TO PLAY TO THE MAXIMUN EFFICIENCY, nor every operator has to be THE NEXT BEST BROKEN THINGY. Also, in my opinion, there are "bad" operators, but in the sense that maybe they're expensive to use, do to little for what they are, etc. Does that mean that "since the operator is bad, you are bad for using/enjoying it"? Hell no, and I know what I'm talking about, I use Minimalist
The main thing this video ignores is first the investment cost factor but do tackle it in a future video. The 2nd thing is even among operators spike (gamepress) consider good there is already stupid amount of depth. Tell me you can go to gamepress and what they consider A tiers and above and have explored all of them, you cant! they are so many operators in only what they consider A tier and above that it will take years and years to explore their uses and the things that makes them tick. Even if I am a spike it doesnt mean im only using chalter and mlynar, but last week i used typhoon, this one im using ray, the one before im using exu the one before im using blue poison the one before im using etc etc etc. the list goes on and goes on, the depth pool of operators in arknights is infinitely deep. I am doing more of IS lately so im building a lot more 4 star operators and even then the depth of the good 4 star operators is super long, it will take me FOREVER to build them all, so yea i could explore into seeing what makes verdant good or i could explore "why is may considered good", or lets see what pinecone can do, I had great results doing this and im having a lot of fun using new operators whenever i can build them.
What new player will end up using a defensive dollkeeper and not just sack him entirely becuase hes just a worse pseudo tank ? Your defense of Verdant just falls entirely flat here. Infact i think at multiple points, you keep falling into this trapping of assuming there's this distribution of low rarity gimmick ops that a new player would actually use when i think a vast majority dont really play the game like thar.
If HG want to play smart? Beside reclamation alg.... Why not make gamemode where you can only bring operator teams yes teams not just one let say 3 teams different set up... Now play it like IS yes rogue but you can't pick the operator you already choose on the other teams and opposite too and if one teams lost then you were ban to pick that operators to other team roster Therefore bad operator can be alternative, funny is azurlane did this and it was kinda fun😅😅 what if it was for grinding mats to craft module blocks? I heard many players has issue in this so why not make a gamemode like this and only to get that mats piece like originium shard that you can craft to make module blocks (and of course, limit how many mats you can get let's say??? 50 mats and need 4 mats to craft one module blocks) but hey that's just a theory
Okay buddy, what is this tiers list at 3:47, don't tell me it is random, I am ripping my hair trying to find what is the logic behind it, THERE NEED TO BE ONE.
Personally, I keep an eye out for "bad" or "weak" operators so I don't lose out on resources. I've been playing for a while but I'm very frugal with my mats, I will not build someone / get masteries / get a module unless I will definitely use it. Operators like Surtr and Texalt are so generally good that masteries were an easy choice, someone like Firewhistle though, her masteries kinda suck. As for why they exist, it's probably because the desiginers just need to make some kind of kit for them without powercreeping old ones I assume, but honestly we need more good 5 stars, too many are mediocre.
There's no BAD operators, Vigil, for example, would be good member of vanguardnights strategy because he can deal range arts damage, Lessing is good has nice damage and can be tanking range damage or be unstoppable force. I don't protect operators, I just want to say one thing: We DO need operators like that because it's a new strategy or way of playing
I do think there is an issue with bad operators who can’t do what they are intended for. Vigil and Spuria are in an entirely different category of Bad due to this.
Every useability gets beaten, if I don't like looking at an operator. I just don't think Degenbrecher is pretty. And the moment they give me an equal replacement for Mountain, I would ditch him.
well if all operators are "good" operators then that would take away the fun factor of the game... having bad operators doesn't mean it's all "bad", it just adds more diversity for the players to pick their own strats and playstyle... also, it's a single player game...
Different views, different opinions. The point is to just agree to disagree. I love weak characters just the same because I love their story or it makes me think more, and I love strong characters when it gets too hard and I need someone to decimate enemies. Viviana is still the best 😅
great video! sorry, i don't have anything special to add to the conversation this time 😞 im really tiring myself from writing all these paragraphs on your videos lol
Hmm, i was thinking those operators must be bad by design because it helps people to scale. And people who scales, are the one with limited resources, or at least always thinking that way. I'll be honest, I will raise all of them if i have unlimited resources. There's no reason not to enrich myself with multitude variation of tools. No matter how niche it is. Even duplicates in utility could be useful.
Игры
![How The Seaborn Drowned A Country [Arknights Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6Dt8kCqN38Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Nice video, I've noticed it in games before, start simple then go complex, but didn't really think about it applying to operators.
Also, Happy Birthday!
Personally I just assumed bad operators exist to push people to roll banners more often if you get a bad operator then you’re more likely to keep rolling or spending to get a good operator and this goes doubly so for limited banners.
in most gacha games, yes
in good gacha games, not really
honestly i dont think any operators are bad it's just their kit may not be as optomized as other charcters and is why we get power creap but i dont think it's that big of a deal since we can still clear all content with only 3 stars
@@BloopsArknights Counter argument, good Sir, there is no good gacha, even Arknights is just the least bad gacha. :D
@@pathalenvivaldi7811 this no gacha is good only the least worst
The "Johnny says: My operators are tools" quote from the last video, made me think of the discussion like this...
-"The Timmy": My operators are my toys. Why would I wanna spend so much time talking/thinking about everything they're good for besides the thing I want them to do?
-"The Johnny": My operators are my tools. Some are more or less useful, but the only "bad *tool*" is one that's not sufficient even in their ideal use. I want to maintain my tools to find their sufficient uses and creative interactions.
-"The Spike": My operators are my employees. They will undergo performance evaluations, and out of this particular principle I can't "hire" someone directly worse. Their overall payoff for their cost - including the deficits they fill and the heights they break - is the first factor in their promotion.
Perhaps this is also a "hierarchy of needs"...
In essence, that is what the whole mantra of 'waifu over meta' is about. In a good game (like Arknights), you can overcome everything with skill and knowledge, but in a lot of bad gacha games you NEED the Spike mentality to clear everything and that is what poisons the well, even for good games that don't need that mentality.
I would argue that a lot of Spikes were created by the necessity in bad gacha games to play like a Spike or simply lose.
An example of that is the decision in a lot of games to push the player in the direction of the latest released character. Like when Genshin releases a new Spiral Abyss that has buffs that are tailored for the last released hyped character, like more damage while having a shield while the banner of shield god XY is open for gambling, or how Reverse 1999 ran into it even worse with the newly released raids that were impossible to fully clear without the EXACT banner character that was released alongside it.
(The boss was designed to only take pure damage at some point making every other way to dps basically worthless, and somehow it was vulnerable to the star element, and the only character that dealt pure damage that wasn't plant element was said released character, which meant you either rolled, got and build said character or you had nearly no chance of clearing that raid fully. They backpaddled after some backlash, so now you are still rewarded using the newly released character, but at least it isn't impossible with other characters.)
100 billion% correct
This is something I have tried stressing in my previous video, but I think you put it in a very nice way. The nature of a lot of gacha games being very predatory in nature will lead towards really poorly designed games that force a Spike mindset onto players. This mindset is then transferred into games like Arknights, where it is entirely optional to play like that. But of course, when you have these kinds of players from other games coming into Arknights, some apply that logic to Arknights, when it doesn't apply in the slightest.
@@BloopsArknights When watching someone new stream Arknights for the first time the most dreaded question I don't want to hear is 'Is this operator good?'
Pleaseee.. The power creeping in Reverse are so so bad with how each character kept getting stronger and stronger making more stronger enemies which you need the new character to counter that enemy..
Limbus company youtubers using the god awful base identies to do Refraction railway :
I feel this in my spine @@zomfgroflmao1337
I like mystic casters and trapmasters and operators with funky targeting. degenbrecher good but she's kinda flat to me
I rolled Mlyner on banner TWICE [had an alt,] and while I built him I rarely use him, /because/, he's the flat "win"button, like cool but I have 12 slots and I would like to use them.....
Stuff like Degen, Texalt, Sutr, Mlynr, Thorns, Blaze, are nice but their key-stone utility can mean often use them instead of actually trying to play which is the mixed blessing of high difficult content as you can use your "WIN" ops to their full potential.
Though also like in the current snow event or DOS etc. it can just turn into, I don't have the op, I'm tired, please just let me get my rubber stamp and move on.
@@IrvineTheHunter This is so true, like I only dust off my Surtr and Mlynar when I'm EXTREMELY sick of failing a particular stage over and over again and when I then inevitably win with them I feel... nothing, really. I'd much rather have 12 'mediocre/bad' Ops each doing their own little thing at different points instead of just two taking care of the entire stage
@@theoture732I wish i can give you 10 more thumbs ups
the main problem I have with this rhetoric is that a lot of what you says kind of conflates being bad with being interesting when it really, really isnt. will these operators be worse than the strongest? yes, but they could be mediocre instead of bad. I do agree that overpowered operators are less interesting but my argument remains the same, if you're really talking about interesting, mediocre is generally better than bad
For leto for example, you say that she's designed for a niche, supporting the ursus students, and it's therfore fine that she's weak because she's not designed for those who chase meta, but the thing is, there's no reason for her to be as weak as she is.
Leto could have very easily been an actually niche operator if her s2 force activates skills off cooldown, but it doesnt, so she's instead just a somewhat mediocre buffer within a niche.
A lot of bad operators are like this, they are not only bad from a meta perspective, but also not as interesting as they could be, they're kneecapped for no good reason.
I'm a person who will defend operators like fucking Spuria for many of the reasons you outline, as while they're not great they do shine in what they try to do (with spuria being the best buffer in the game for the likes of schwarz), but it's also stupid to pretend that these operators being bad is what makes them appeal when they could be mediocre and probably appeal more to more people while still retaining 99% of the the appeal they currently have.
I agree on many of your other points, some operators are worse than others to be simple for new players, some operators are just worse because that's inevitable, all that, i agree with, but I cant agree with you that the bad operators are bad to be appealing to nicher players, they could very well be mediocre instead of bad.
so true man
I haven't heard something like this in ak community for a long time
I will point to point 1 and 7:
- There has to be bad operators: some operators are bad simply because they are baseline to rate other ops. I would say Frostleaf and any bad early operators belong to that. OP already explained it. If you rate all the operators from SS to F and delete all operators below S, there is still the worst operator in S tier. Viviana is also another example of a bad operator because they are the baseline (in Viviana case the baseline is a SS tier operator so she is bad lol)
- Point 7: Some bad is simply R&D goofing up. I think this is a very imporatant point that OP didn't talk about. Many of the worst new release are simply HG trying new idea. Crushers are the example. They tried new archetype with Quartz and Wind Chimes. Didn't work. Eventually they reached it with Hoerder and Ulpianus. Pretty sure Spuria is the victim of experiment too.
@@anhkhoanguyen8562 i honestly dont know what you're trying to say, may you expand on what you're trying to say? are you defending me? because your points dont do anything as far as countering my points go.
Something that I realized about a different game it's in the subject. I remember when I got into genshin and a lot of people said that Amber is a bad character because of this or that, but a lot of people don't realized that she is supose to be a character that helps the player get used to the game, since she is the first character that a player get, use a new play style with her bow, has a pyro vision that does the most usesul combos and has a bunny that aggros the enemies giving helping the player learn the combat at the start.
Great video by the way, always happy to see people talking about the different kinds of character and ways to play the game
They exist so we have something to actually complain about the game
Also love what you're doing, there should be some pushback against 'Just Surtr it' notions and have people be more open about experimenting with the game
But we already have the base to complain about 🤔
@@marielcarey4288 the only complaint so far being it's still in beta lol
@@sagram0re814 in beta for 5 years sure
People have come to the conclusion already that beta is just a name
in my head bad operator exist as a prototype for future 5/6 star of the same class as said bad operator
From my own experience, i find that using operators that you enjoy and then adapting your playstyle to suit your tastes feels way better than just going after the most optimal solution. I felt that especially after i spent a considerable amount of time tailoring my WD-8 clear in a way that would allow for Viviana to finish the boss, and it felt awesome(although i was quite exhausted by the end of it lmao). I don't think there are "universally bad" operators because all of them have been used to great effect by someone at some point, and that someone probably had lots of fun with said operator. At the end of the day, as long as you're enjoying the operators you're playing with, that operator is fulfilling its purpose, and that's what matters the most.
I did something similar in this event and and found myself feeling really proud of myself when I did It: I really wanted Viviana to tank Harold in the Ex-8 CM and It turns out she can, but she needs Quercus (or any kind of sanctuary, It can be hoederer backing her up) and a little HP buff (I used eyjaberry, but could be any HP buff, like virtuosa and so on). Harold was hitting 2.9k ish of damage with Quercus, and vivi has 2920 HP at Max lvl. So I was just shy of a few points of HP.
But I digress, the main point here is the proudness I felt when I did It. And It was amazing.
I think OP is attributing way too much credit and forethought to HG for making bad operators. Bad operators are just a consequence of imperfect developers and game design. If bad operators were always intentional, then HG would not have had to buff Passenger not just once, but twice.
HG has many designers, both on the character and map side, and they won't always come into perfect congruence each time. Sometimes, the stars align, sometimes, they don't.
As long as HG can keep making interesting characters and keep the game and story engaging, that's good enough for me.
Can we give Hypergryph flak for how they implement modules? They had an opportunity to fix units and buff older ones to become more usable. Instead they focus its implementation on subclasses with a one patch fix all + making the units traits a bit stronger. I also feel like they sort of create modules with a new operator in mind, so you sort of need to get their module.
Yes I saw SUPAH's video recently. Also don't get me started with the modules scarcity.
Yeah this. This 100%. Modules should have been a way to help weaker kits shine. It's not like other gachas can't do this, Neural Cloud (NC) with its Arma Inscriptas have these buffs tailor made for each unit.
Sure, Modules didn't have to appeal to everyone using that unit, even in NC one such buff improved a character's damage when survivability/bulk would have been better according to many players, but at least HG could have ensured that modules would "fix" what made a character seem weaker. They did this with Mostima, they did this with units like Shirayuki with the improved SP charge and Def Ignore to help during downtime (unless you're using S1 and you therefore benefit from the mod at all times)
What we got was generic base module effects applied to all units of that job class, even the likes of Totter or Heavyrain who work very different from units of the same subclass. What we got was some modules that seem completely pointless. It's tragic
What you mean, fix units?! Didn't you see the video explaining that there is no bad operators, just bad spike players? Why fix the vanguard with 2 dp production, this operator is just for another type of player... Why fix the Defender with 1 block that can't receive sp? Just for anyone not you... Why fix the 1 block duelist that receives less damage from units he's actively not blocking!! This is to combo with something else and you just don't understand the game... In summary, game is just fiiiinnnne... /s
Your biggest mistake is to look at SUPAH video, never ever doing that again
Modules were NEVER made in mind of fixing any units (thats what buffs are made for and yes they can happen. I mean it happened once before...).
Modules are made to specialize further your unique aspects of operator, thats why they boost passives with each module buffing one passive.
Sure, some give meager boosts while some get substantial boosts (glaadia comes to mind...), but they always boost existing passives. Saga is simplest example - her passives makes her regen for some time, module.makes regen stronger and last longer.
The basic subclass buff is there but it's secondary, thats why its same buff for both modules that one 6 star gets - its just subclass buff to make it more....subclassy
I love Spuria. I haven't quite built her up to the level I want yet, obviously my main priority is building a strong and well-rounded squad to take on the toughest of lategame content, but as that "lategame" approaches closer and closer, along with my 1 year anniversary of playing the game, I've been thinking about what's next, how to keep things fun and challenging, and Spuria is talking to me like the Green Goblin mask. I don't even particularly like the Laterano stories, they're some of my least favorites, but something about her design, voice, and the whole mythos around her awfulness makes me want to see her work. It's the same feeling I got when I saw Passenger in the cert shop; understanding that he's a questionable investment, and that he only has a small window of viability, but loving his character so much that I want to find that window. I for one am excited to use Spuria alongside Typhon, and the upcoming Wis'adel, put her to work with Warfarin and Skalter and see if I can create something truly horrifying out of the uncontested worst operator in the game.
Great analysis that addresses multiple facets of the topic and really shows that no operator is truly "bad" by design. Though it seems like your volume's a bit lower than your usual videos haha
Something is labeled "bad" when it doesn't suit your personal choice or preference or in this game, gameplay or playstyle.
And because of personal bias, one will disregard the actual usability of certain operator and shines on certain encounter.
It just sucks when an operator I want to like is bad in gameplay. Like I enjoy their character, their design, their story, but they're so bad in gameplay and I'm not skilled enough to make them work (or at the very least the process of trying to make them work is so miserable to me that I would just give up)
the fact that Viviana, who soloed Harold in EX-8 for me, is in the thumbnail
triggered me xD
I spent several hours trying to get Viviana tanking Harold to work on EX-8 CM, and she kept whiffing her shield. Even had Shamare doll dropped between her CDs to keep her alive. I think she’s the perfect example of a functional operator who only looks bad because she gets compared to something better (Surtr).
@@blackhammer5035even in this example, surtr can't do what she does best against Harold. Her time on field would expire before she could defeat him.
Btw, vivi can tank Harold If you give her sanctuary (Quercus is enough) and a bit more HP (I used eyjaberry). Even on her downtime in the skill.
@@blackhammer5035 thats just the thing
Vivi has potentially more staying power than Surtr
but surtr is guaranteed to live for a bit
but unlike Surtr Vivi has a few other options
put her with S1 behind Liskarm for example safe range Arts burst spam
>my Skadi soloing Harold like a G
Abyssal Hunters Master Race
@@eijitoh6252 fishes for life!
11:16 see, this is where you lose credibility and validity of your points. Mistakes happen and they should be called our for. Underbaked goods aren't undervalued, they are just bad and sometimes poisonous. No need to defend incompetent cooks while you could pressure them to finish their cooking process.
I'm more pissed that hg clearly plays favorites on some characters and factions. Some 5 stars and even 6 stars operators get doo doo for modules. While abyssal hunters get the most broken ass modules and caracters and the in-faction boosts they give is so powerful no other in faction boosts come close to them. Let's also not talk about a year one limited six star getting the most broken LIMITED ALTER. They're not even hiding the favoritism
But if they don't do that then no moneys, so it's a lose-lose situation
you mean wišadel? I dont see problem, if you dont like it why you play it then? Shes not broken shes strong, you can win the game with 4* but if you dont have a brain just use wišadel or full 6* squad. Shes boring, and strong but you dont need it, you dont play against players thats really dumb question, if you are willing to whale for character to win against AI in "fashion" thats totaly up to you.
I feel like people keep parroting these defenses of bad operators, but I feel it's a bit more context sensitive than that: Viviana is a "bad" operator, but at least she does her job well enough, even if her job is a bit niche and slightly strays from the normal archetype's role. Frostleaf can have her ASPD reduction removed and her S@ SP cost reduced by 20% and she'd still be the worst lord, but she'd be a lot more playable for her niche.
Right, I can't even keep track of how many people have jumped in to defend Viviana with the same arguments, but when you actually apply these arguments to practice they feel so useless, as if they are made up advantages.
>and slightly strays from the normal archetype's role.
debatable. Bladeweavers seem more defensive then offensive despite their talent, and likely Astesia is a more common template than Surtr.
For a more indept comparion
* Mousse has a damage mitigation skill
* Astesia has the increase DEF and blockcount
* Surtr has...well her nuke skill, but also her immorality talent
* Candle Knight here has a barrier, an upgrade to Astestia's S2 and a also an upgrade to Surtr's not commonly used S2
Surtr was the outlier here, not Viviana is what I'm saying.
@@Khroniclas This is why sometimes, the gameplay discussion about the operators can be cancerous, it's all matter of trashing or white knighting
@@rezafahlevi9659 Agreed, I feel like there are 2 big groups that just bash eachother for different reasons. Other groups of players must be exhausted from seeing all that bashing constantly.
I'm perfectly fine if you play like Spike, but damn you don't have to be so annoying about it. Some of them will literally not allow you to enjoy the game because you don't build meta units or roll for broken units and it's been a disease in the community it just makes every operator discussions feels shallow, short-sighted, and ultimately, boring.
I'm sure if you've been watching a bunch of Arknights videos on RUclips, you've seen one of those guys. The other day I read somebody called Gladiia useless.
To me Spike can be very annoying, but I also see an equal amount of Johnnies if not more Johnnies than Spikes that behave with incredible toxicity as well. People that don't allow you to enjoy the meta, YOU MUST USE MY WAIFU LOSER OR YOU ARE JUST TOO BAD AT ARKNIGHTS. ALSO META ENJOYERS ARE LITERALLY RETARDED LOOK HOW EASY THE GAME BECAME WITH DEGENBRECHER IT IS A JOKE WTF ARE YOU EVEN PLAYING THE GAME FOR NOOB
At this point there are too many people calling operators trash, and too many people calling other players trash for not liking suboptimal operators.
They exists to be bad, meanwhile meta ops exists to be used on every stage and let people complain how easy game is
I feel attacked when you said “older than me. To the point before I was born” 😭
I can predict this video is gonna be quite controversial among people who aren't already a part of my audience.
At least the like to dislike ratio seems superb. Let's gooooooo
Thanks for this vid. It really is crucial to appreciate how different units in games appeal to different players. Expecting all units to be 100% efficient and optimized is a silly expectation, but I get that other players love it when everything is fully optimized and how easy and streamlined that makes things for them
I think you are bretty much on point, I agree with you in 90% of the things you've said, And am sure it well be 100% after the second watch.
The only controversial thing here is the way you pronounce Degenbrecher's name. I enjoyed the video a lot, keep up the good work!
@@_MonochromeMoth Degenbrecher and Skadi lmao
@@_MonochromeMothWell, as a German speaker, her name is pronounced "Dee-gen (the g like again) brie-schair"
I was alive back then 😞
Besides that you make good points with everything
As for my usage for them the challenge man do I love skyfire
Old
I was young like baby back then 😞
i was already 10 years old....
old people, assemble !
I know everyone can freely to choose the ops they want. But i cant forgive dumb people who called them "bad operators" and asking "why they're exist?" without knowing anything.
As we know Arknights is Strategy Games which is mean there's always exist some people who want to challenge their self with hard gameplay. Playing stages with ops limitation, using ops with unique Mechanism, or playing stage with niche squad. Arknights is not only about clearing the stages, but you can combi every operator that you have, clearing stages with ops that people can think "how can these ops can clear this stages?"
Fantastic analysis. Hope this moves mountains in the community.
Imo bad operators are a dev mistake they don't want to fix. You can see how when many operators get released with experimental stuff, the dev thinks it's good and it fails.
AYO MY MAN DID NOT JUST SAY LAPPLAND IS USELESS
you're right, i didn't say that. I said she has a niche of which's value is based on the context of the stage.
@@BloopsArknights dw ik i was mostly sarcastic. Also best waifu hands down i will throw hands if you dare say she's bad 😔
@@master_swish hot take: i think she's actually too good for her niche
@@BloopsArknights not a hot take when it's true. I believe she forced the devs to reevaluate the silence mechanic and making it a bit less clear on what can be silenced. I also think as a 5* she belongs in the tier that is still considered really strong. Feels like Hypergryph kind of stopped making strong 5* for the most part. Seems like most are now designed with some sort of flaw for the subclass to then be removed for the 6* equivalent, look at Mountain with brawlers. They just put a +1 block, make it so that his attacks hit all that are blocked, and give him a regen. He essentially is a -1 block centurion with sustain. Lappland would probably be used more if Thorns didn't exist, because her damage isn't bad at all. You just have to sort of play around with her skill activation.
I still remember how i got yelled by a certain RUclipsr when he's using Lappy for CC. "You don't know how count damage". For context, she dubbed a secret 6* for her DPS back in the early days. She's only competing against Silver Ash, Blaze, and Hellagur. And being the sole arts guard back in the day, other than Mousse, and Astesia much later.
I can't explain how nice it is to find someone sane talking about gacha games. I've somewhat burned out on interacting with Arknights' community (and most gacha communities) because of a lot of reasons, but these sorts of videos always manage to bring back some hope that there are still nuanced takes around in gacha spaces.
you got me with the lessing front and center in the thumbnail i clicked so fast to defend my boy. then i saw who made the video lmao
my friend made the thumbnail, sorry for the accidental hatebait???
Please, tell me I won't regret it, when I spend on him my scarce resources.
@@kiszkjmt8564while Skadi is better in every way, Lessing isn't that bad. His s3 does have some legit uses
I wait for a fast redeploy module to make his s2 better 🤔
Don't worry, in my experience you're going to use Lessing maybe once or twice for IS4's second ending and then for about 1 in every 100 stages. (I'm completely out of resources because of him and other "mid" Ops but I regret nothing. My boy deserves some recognition.)
@@theoture732 my comment got removed?? I can't see it at least so imma say it again; he's nowhere near as good as Skadi but he has his uses, especially with s3. I've found decent use with his s3 vs d12 ending 2 IS4
A looooot of people missed the point
nice video!!!
I started playing AK at the R6 collab, with all the E0 and E1 starters operators were my 1st fully leveled operators. When I was not dependent to a friends' 6-star, I have to maximize everything with what little I have on most stages. Heck, Tachanka was my 1st E2 operator along with Frost and Blitz with underpowered medics... It was HARD to crowd-control and maintain lines with heavy enemies. Learning about buffers and debuffers, using Myrtle S2 was my ground support medic on early annihilation stages, and other mechanics is still enjoyable for a TD game or a Gacha game even. It is hard, but it still enjoyable.
that maybe the reason that I never touched my Ling even after Pot-3 here, but I have to build here for harder late game someday.
Mylnar just stands there and let enemy pass 🥺
I love these videos
If bad operators dont exist, good ones don't exist
Interesting video, very high quality but I do disagree. There is definitely bad operators, or at least one bad operator: Spuria. Her whole kit relies on buffing snipers, and yet when given this buff, snipers are given a perctsge chance to stun themselves each time they attack.
Already the main sniper archetype, marksman, are ruled out as they have the fastest attack rate in the game, and with that chance to stun, these marksmen snipers are barely even able to get a chance to attack. The stun lasts for 1.8 seconds and has a 20 percent chance to activate, even at m3.
And even on the off chance you had her, why would you build? She is not given out in the free five star selectors each new player has, and if a new player needed or wanted a buffer Warfarin is much better and much more easily attainable. Even in the lore she has a generic personality, basically Aak but watered down. Spuria even needs a healer to even stay in the battlefield, meaning she is actively diverting resources that could be used for more capable operators. Who exactly does Spuria appeal to? Maybe masochists, but even then. Fundamentally Spuria doesn’t do anything uniques or not already done better by other operators, she was dead in arrival, and I think she by herself proves that there is at least one bad operator.
Yeah Spuria is definitely the only operator that is truly "bad". Her kit is just a mess, her buffing is terrible, using her is awkward. Her kit just works against everything else, it's pretty funny how she escaped development with how bad she is
I love Spuria's design, but I have to agree that she is fundamentally flawed. She doesn't even have the excuse of being underpowered or niche like other "bad" operators. Just using her can actually sabotage your run.
I tested Spuria somewhat extensively with multiple 6* operators and learned her best synergy isn't even with high attack interval ops that can 'ignore' the stun.
It's Platinum. Her talent boosts her strike power when not attacking for up to 2.5 seconds, which Spuria automatically gives via the 1.8 second delay. This allows her to go from chipping moderate to high def enemies to being able to deal more than 2k damage per hit and become a true knight assassin.
The game meta has moved onto consistent and strong buffers but none of them actually reduce attack interval, so Hypergryph may have unintentionally created synergy with a day 1 operator. The problem is that it wasn't advertised with Spuria's kit and more importantly Platinum is so dated as a release op that most of these unique interactions have to be directly tested.
This entire video is exactly answer to your opinion
There are people that find simple insane OP buffs or built in kits are boring
For these people whats the point of playing the game where you could push one button that bulldoze everything
The buff that come with a debuff price is exactly what appealing to them, challenging them to work around or minimize the effect of said debuff in a stage
Someone read the gamepress spuria article made by the biggest Spike there is.
But no, she’s not all bad. Her buff is actually better than Warf’s for ops like Schwarz for example. You just have to account for lower aspd high dph ops.
Also her s1 is a thing. She’s no April, but for a player like me who’s all in on RA and is preparing heavily for RA2 when that comes, I’m building as many ops that have an on deploy skill, and she’s one of the few that has them.
In the end she falls into what the video talks about, just a niche ops for a specific player.
The thing with lower rarity being entrance point, it doesn't always work like that... I've had Robin built for a very long time - my first and only trapmaster - and found her borderline bad, the only great usage opportunities for her were the levels with those energy tiles charging the blue shooting towers - i could charge or regain those towers using her traps instead of sacrificing a deployment slot for an actual operator. Other than that, she was extremely underwhelming. So when Dorothy was realeased it was like easiest skip ever for me. Until one of the IS graced me with a fully built Dorothy to toy around with ( I don't remember whether it was a deep investigation or she was the 0 hope lucky chance, though). Boy, did that make me re-evaluate the trapmaster class 😮.
Reminding myself Verdant is a subpar 4* even in 4* niche eventually surprised me to great length when I found a nigh perfect niche for him in RS-EX-8. Since Harold moves so slowly, with a bit of CC, Verdant can stall Harold for quite a long time. To make it better, Verdant's substitute has a 3x3 attack range and really tanky defensive stats, making it quite good at helping to reignite the emergency heaters.
6:03 He said it, he actually pronounced it correctly: “Exusiai”, not the commonly used“Exia”
splendid video
I have exusai, but I built Jessica anyway because she's the best character
Alter as well
It becomes a problem when you have to have multiple operators to do the job a single operator is able to do.
There are operators that clearly were intentionally made to be bad. Spuria is a prime example and even Frostleaf. Frostleaf's module doesn't really do anything other than poor rng freeze and adding a little bit of arts damage. She's still a bad operator no matter how much you sugarcoat it.
There's nothing wrong with making the game harder for yourself but that doesn't mean the operator in question is usable.
This lol
I find it pretty funny seeing people trying to defend bad operator because their ‘niche’ is usable in like two specific stages with that mindset of “There no bad operator,only bad doctor” really grind my gear.
I do enjoy raising and playing with operator with questionable kit bake into them and finding some usage but that won’t stray them away from being absolutely garbage lol.
Never imagine someone talking about the psychological aspect of the game, me like.
Or as someone once said: *When everyone's a super...*
how can you say bad operators don’t exist when myrtle single-handedly ruined 90% of vanguards on release?
And then there's Warmy who's S2 literally can't work in the current roaster
MTG PARALLEL VIDEO AGAIN LETS GOOOO
On the one hand, I really do not think I agree with the idea of "good" being subjective in cases like Quartz, I think she is genuinely awful in terms of her capabilities, and while I dont think efficiency = fun, I DO think its unreasonable to say "operator is good because I have fun with them". HOWEVER, uninformed hating is not helpful for anyone, so I'm gonna check your Crusher video to see what you have to say about them before I make a judgment.
Niche =/= useless. That argument defeats itself and has no place in this discussion.
there are always going to be a bad operator but its all came from each player perspective and those are not the same with each person.
earthspirit S2 have synergy with gitano S2, their skill duration and downtime almost similar.
savage S1 work great with relic on IS that increase damage to X% for 1 second like spinach, the other centurion that have this skill is only blaze with S1 but i doubt people even raise that skill over S2 or S3.
Great video, but you missing one point.
Arknights is not the game where it's cheap or fast to build units making it basically resource management game. Throw this mind-numbing aspect or make it easier and bam even "bad" operators now have chance to shine.
I personally want to build and play with niche characters, but if I invest in them most certainly I'll rob myself of rewards and resources, making the grind of building characters even more painful.
In other words the whole point "the niche is alright, there are no bad ops" are coming from relatively long time players that already have squad that can beat stages if ease allowing them to dive into niches, becatthey are not losing anything. If they can't beat with picked niche, they always can grab old reliable and "cheat" or "skip" stage to get rewards and move on.
I'd wholly disagree. You dont need to minmax your resources at all to progress in Arknights. I've only been playing for 11 months and all I do is upgrade operators I find fun. Yeah these upgrades dont push you towards the end game, but I and some other players, dont want to rush to the end game. I'm fine with grinding cuz I dont feel pressured to reach the end asap.
As someone once said, “whatever operators you have is your best operators.”
in my personal clumsy regards, id use them to challenge myself
I agree with almost everything said in this video, BUT, as a 4* only player i must say, that the problem with Verdant is not that his kit is sponge-oriented and lack DPS, is that he does not bring ANYTHING new to the 4* team. As SG once said, he is literally Beanstalk's crab but worse. We already have arts sponges like MH, Beanstalk, Gummy and most of the time its not efficient or fun to use Verdant cos he doesnt do anything besides being a sponge (and he is at most mid in his role), Gummy can heal, MH cant hold 4, Beanstalk can print DP and she is overall uniqe and universal (her module is the best of 4* period). What i love in 4* is that they are not OP, but their kit is much more interesting than 3*, every one of them can do at least 2 things good (Jaye - dps + heal, Meteor - anti-air + debuff, Mousse - debuff + dps, etc), but Verdant is just a sponge, his playstyle is way to passive
Yeah sorry man. The first 4 minutes threw me away because I didn't agree at all. The one thing I've always loved about arknights is how different operators have their own niches meaning that most of them aren't bad, it just depends on use case and what overall strategy you want to use.
Even within the same classes like thorns, qiubai, silverash, arene, midnight.. they all are fairly balanced between each other. Arknights isn't super competitive so the meta balance that normally exists is a bit looser (we don't keep track of win percentages for certain ops). Also, meta doesn't define what ops can be good but rather design of stage gimmicks which can make any operator good. However, there are still some ops that are severely outclassed and need to be fixed. Angelina being one of them. This video mainly targets issues of ch'en, irene, and degen, but they all have niches especially during ss when sp gen is eliminated but you want a nuker.
For arknights it isn't a big deal for other games it matters more. Thus, I disagree and think the game can be rebalanced but with modules only affect talents and not character redesigns,...
Edit: just want to note, lessing and Viviana are fine. Vigil, Angelina, spuria, etc. Just need some help to make them fit better in specific roles
Kino background gameplay, showcasing exactly your arguments in real time. Also your point of Verdant not designed to carry lategame makes me thankful that HG still designs baby kiddo stages in every event before ramping it up to the EX stages for the proper status of the game. Still would not make me shy away from calling Verdant bad or at least underwhelming but i know now Arknights is partly a chill game and other part sweaty challenging.
Also also a point you did not touch upon is Bad characters being those that does not work as advertised, due to HG's RNG fetish or undertuned numbers. Notable nominees being Spuria, Frostleaf, Kjera, Franka, might be more but that's what sticks to my mind. Spuria is already extensively discussed in other comments here and there.
Frostleaf is advertised as this ranged guard that can slow. Neat. Except the slow is tied to her offense skill that requires several hit before the slow that means the intended target will already be closing in and the slow is irrelevant, and the slow is instead for another target, or the abysmal skill 2 but sure you can have plan around it for consistency. Oh the module? You mean 25% chance to slow at lvl 3 module? Like her kit does not show up in the game most of the time due to bad skill cycle or bad RNG reliance, that if you peel her kit away which is easy, she literally is just Midnight. That is my bar for bad ops, ops that is too are to have their kits matter that they just become a standing stat stick comparable to their weaker less star counterpart.
Franka? She is just Melantha when her RNG skill does not proc. Kjera? Trust me i love and use her in IS3 a lot cause stun and frozen is needed for the flying guys, but her frozen is just another RNG proc chance, she is just Click when the freeze does not hit. GOD HG LAY OFF WITH THE RNG BULLBULL AND JUST MAKE IT ONCE EVERY 3 OR 4 ATTACKS.
RIP Siege who is just the "Here's what a pioneer is supposed to be" and a 6 star.
If everyone is super, no one will be.
:V
if there are no "bad" operators, then you should probably use a different word then "bad".
I'd like to call them "underwhelming"
Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the operator with the worst reputations as being "bad" operators? For example, do you think Frostleaf's unusual design was intended to make her more appealing to Johnnies, or does she not appeal to Johnnies either? (I have a hard time seeing Timmies and Spikes liking Frostleaf, either). Or Spuria? (Though I think I can see why a Johnny might appreciate her on an unusual "buff snipers" team using a way to get around her self stun)
I will say, some operators, even if they appeal to Johnny, may have design issues, like pre-module Frostleaf or Spuria. They do appeal to Johnny, but a bit of their "badness" does come from an area of design issues. Now, Johnny notices these issues but doesnt really care. Appeal comes from breaking the mold.
I'd like to have a range of Operator Tier between Good & Broken, which like your argument about Jessica & better Alternative. But in a game where new units get released, new enemies, new mechanic, it may be hard. Arknights, may suffer the same problem like PvZ 2 where they had so much Operators that... Useless... For example we got Gladiia, the best Puller in this game yet why should we does build Rope & Almond? Or we will get Lumen, one of the best Therapist Medic, so why would we build Ceylon?
In PvZ, there are some questionable Plants like Cactus, Split Pea, Chomper, etc. They are bad, but we have a clear idea for how to improve them since we did know ALL the Zombies & Mechanic. That's why we CAN improve them, but in Live Service game like Arknights it's quite hard...
The idea of Ceylon is that she is the first implementation of her archetype in the game. There are definitely cases of operators where Hypergryph is dipping their toes in the water and see if it goes well or not. The same case definitely applies with Ceylon who's literally released on the first year of the game release.
After understanding Ceylon and her issues, it seems that HG started to make much more servicable Therapist with either sustained healing, good HPS, burst heal, or just straight up something that they do patched up to a hundred (Lumen removing control effect altogether).
The nature of gacha games is that it's a character collection games. You want to play the game because of the characters. You like how pretty, how handsome, how cute, how adorable, or how cool they are. Those who finds comfort in Ceylon's design (either because they love Ceylon's character or they think she fit in a certain niche) will ultimately build her anyway. META isn't the priority in Arknights because Arknights feels like a game of its own, not a money-making machine that only made certain (necessary) stage to be beatable with only particularly expensive units. Whether there is a point in building Ceylon over Lumen in the view of META is certainly questionable, but Ceylon IS a serviceable unit in most stages even if it requires heavier investment.
When you already love Ceylon, nothing can get in your way. It's especially even more effective when Arknights have such a fantastic background stories for most of its characters, you can be attached to these characters so much easier. And that, backed up with the nature of Arknights as a strategy game, which will attract more people who are more keen to experimentation such and such, will certainly leave some space for Ceylon to... exist. To be playable.
Same case could apply to Almond, Snowsant, Bison, Tomimi, operators that are considered to be either sub-par or a mere sidegrade to a 4*, they will still have a place in Arknights, in the eyes of certain players. That's very much the core of this video.
@@shiningnightmare5616 in short : Waifu/Husbando over Meta... well no, not only Waifu/Husbando, but Fun over Meta too
That's the absolute argument, that's the reason why I build Lee, Mizuki, & Aak despite almost everyone said that they're a bad 6 stars.
Also the first part of your argument is literally why I said that balancing a certain amount of unit is hard in gacha/or live service games.
But- again, objectively, performence wise, they're not that good or atleast losing to a better unit (that either easier to obtain, easier to use, better performence). I can see why most people don't really understand this video, & I think I understand it
@@helmifaiz4504 I don't think Arknights is exactly striving for "balance". I'm pretty sure they are intentionally making lacks of balance as part of the game.
If balance is what they are intentionally trying to keep throughout the game's lifespan, they could've just do regular adjustments like what they did to Chain Caster archetype awhile back. But they didn't. Because that's not what they're trying to do.
In some way, they DO need some characters to be "underpowered". And just the idea of gacha games in general, we NEED certain characters to be underpowered, less universal, niche, or even outright outclassed by its counterparts.
Arknights isn't free of guilt from marketing tactics, this is one of theirs. But compared to other gacha games that are just unforgiving for those without 6*, this game is much more generous.
(Also, I don't want to say that waifu or "fun" is over META because for some, meta IS the fun. I'm more of trying to trace back to the video's point of operators very much made for different kind of players.)
Not related but that Annihalation stage is soooooooo nostalgic
There are no bad operators just bad doctors
" Quote from supah, i think "
Nah, Supah hates people who said that sentence, he literally made a video to dunk on people who said that
i try to keep uo with the meta because i don't want to struggle too much on newer stage knowing they will only get much harder. besides, i don't spend close to $0 so tomfoolery feel a waste of resource. it gets so bad that more than half of my promoted op are 6 stars and i have 71 e2 lol
A fellow "Johnny" here~
This community really needed this video. It is honestly ridiculous that this is what's considered "controversial", really says a lot.
The hate some players so commonly spew out loud is so discouraging to others who want to do something different other than following a trend. It's always "these are bad" and "those are good", never "just play the game the way you feel is most comfortable". Whether you play with Meta operators or not, there is no need to shame others for their playstyle. This is Arknights, where you can beat practically most things, by just playing how you want to. You don't need to be Spike.
We are all on the same boat and playing the same game. Might as well enjoy each others company. ✨
Gauging whether an operator can be considered "good" or "bad" has always been a contentious point to me because every individual has their own standards to befit this definition. It's almost a matter of semantics in a game where nobody has to abide to ridiculous standards to get to experience almost every piece of content in the game without too much effort. As long as creative displays of strategy exist to defeat what is considered "difficult" over a very long period of time, I think it's a fairly safe assumption to say that nobody is truly "bad" to an irredeemable degree, this already forms a divergence in what I think it means.
There is some nuance to apply since my own definition of good boils down to "In how many scenarios is this operator the best answer to x or y problem, and how much effort do you need for it to work ?"
If the answers are "Not many" and "A lot", there is a chance that a part of this answer contains a scenario where the "worse" operator may shine brighter than the one who brings the solution in one of them. This is all extremely hypothetical and I absolutely suck at expressing myself, but I hope the idea can be conveyed somehow.
At the end of the day, I myself do not appreciate how some people push forward the Spike way of playing over everything else - it encourages not to explore what could be a good door of entry to fun ventures and instead incentivizes to do something that's been "recommended" over another opinion that may not belong to both parties involved.
5:38 sometimes I just want to min-max my brain usage. Specifically, minimizing it lmao
Im pretty sure that with enough brain you can clear the game with 4 stars and 3 stars only but since im bad af I ofc feel 4 stars arent that great
I use verdant for tanking the sarkaz magician that shoot fireball in IS, no fireball pass near my operator lol
my bigger quesstion is:
why does Lessing, a 6*, have a generic Power Strike as S1...
Blaze and Silverash do too. And Lessing one is unironically pretty strong
Having self imposed restraint and playing with bad ops is pretty fun once in a while
At times those bad Operators are the one that will carry you until you get your own meta Operators
Personally I like lying to myself and saying they’re just sadistic monsters and like creating horrible characters to test ideas while creating good characters that people will like but hate playing also great video!!!
Imo most bad operators are good, But there are still operators who are better than them.
Regarding the the RS event gacha characters. That's exactly why I use Degen in SSS or late game IS and keep Leto permanently in my default squad
Also, lol. Skaydee
Ngl i kinda want to see if you win that anni mission or not cus that line up is lowkey genius, anyway, love your vid
I lost in the Defense Crusher rush, am sorry.
Aww damn, that kiara regen is genius, plus with perfumer talent it is so funny to watch her health fluctuate like my mental health
I'm going through stages with ussg because she came out. Pretty fun.
As in all games, strong and weak characters coexist to make you appreciate the strong ones
honestly, i really cant take the term 'bad operator' seriously because people clear max risk CC with E0 operators of all 'quality'. there is no bad operator, just people who don't want to learn how to use them- saying this as someone who personally tries to clear arknights stages the easiest way possible because I'm more interested in character lore than anything else, and i don't have the braincells to use hard units lol
Alright then, we shoud change the term "bad operator" to "underwhelming"
@@wickeddave5148 fine by me! underwhelming does indeed have a different meaning than bad.
They r bad, just because people can use them it doesn't mean they r not bad, u can beat a souls game naked with fists using bongos as a controller lol
@@elmataclachado I feel like you're just proving my point here. I wouldn't say "bad" but moreso "challenging" or hard to use. I don't think any operator is legitimately without use except for maybe Spuria, and even then some people have figured out some strange niches with her. But sure, if you'd like to call every operator that makes the game BabyEasyMode for you good, go ahead !
@@wickeddave5148 suboptimal is a better term
Wait why do you pronounce Skadi’s name like that?! That sounds vile 😭
And I resent having Viviana in the thumbnail. I know why you did it but I feel like I have to present a whole slideshow to defend why she isn’t bad when people say that LOL
that is just how i say her name. I am aware it is unpopular, but its comfortable for me.
I used lessing s3 m3 mod 3 for Jt 8-3 because I don't have surtr
A nice, fun, and casual oriented analisis. Not every Doctor HAS TO PLAY TO THE MAXIMUN EFFICIENCY, nor every operator has to be THE NEXT BEST BROKEN THINGY.
Also, in my opinion, there are "bad" operators, but in the sense that maybe they're expensive to use, do to little for what they are, etc.
Does that mean that "since the operator is bad, you are bad for using/enjoying it"? Hell no, and I know what I'm talking about, I use Minimalist
The main thing this video ignores is first the investment cost factor but do tackle it in a future video.
The 2nd thing is even among operators spike (gamepress) consider good there is already stupid amount of depth. Tell me you can go to gamepress and what they consider A tiers and above and have explored all of them, you cant! they are so many operators in only what they consider A tier and above that it will take years and years to explore their uses and the things that makes them tick.
Even if I am a spike it doesnt mean im only using chalter and mlynar, but last week i used typhoon, this one im using ray, the one before im using exu the one before im using blue poison the one before im using etc etc etc. the list goes on and goes on, the depth pool of operators in arknights is infinitely deep.
I am doing more of IS lately so im building a lot more 4 star operators and even then the depth of the good 4 star operators is super long, it will take me FOREVER to build them all, so yea i could explore into seeing what makes verdant good or i could explore "why is may considered good", or lets see what pinecone can do, I had great results doing this and im having a lot of fun using new operators whenever i can build them.
I see your point, but what is my boy Vigil doing here 🧐. He's isn't bad, he's a good boi!
There are no bad operators, just operators who can't solo a stage in a team-based game.. and bad team composition which came from bad doctors
I'm going to build Tuye :v
What new player will end up using a defensive dollkeeper and not just sack him entirely becuase hes just a worse pseudo tank ? Your defense of Verdant just falls entirely flat here. Infact i think at multiple points, you keep falling into this trapping of assuming there's this distribution of low rarity gimmick ops that a new player would actually use when i think a vast majority dont really play the game like thar.
If HG want to play smart? Beside reclamation alg....
Why not make gamemode where you can only bring operator teams yes teams not just one let say 3 teams different set up... Now play it like IS yes rogue but you can't pick the operator you already choose on the other teams and opposite too and if one teams lost then you were ban to pick that operators to other team roster
Therefore bad operator can be alternative, funny is azurlane did this and it was kinda fun😅😅 what if it was for grinding mats to craft module blocks? I heard many players has issue in this so why not make a gamemode like this and only to get that mats piece like originium shard that you can craft to make module blocks (and of course, limit how many mats you can get let's say??? 50 mats and need 4 mats to craft one module blocks) but hey that's just a theory
if everyone is good operator, no one is good operator
Okay buddy, what is this tiers list at 3:47, don't tell me it is random, I am ripping my hair trying to find what is the logic behind it, THERE NEED TO BE ONE.
gottem
Personally, I keep an eye out for "bad" or "weak" operators so I don't lose out on resources. I've been playing for a while but I'm very frugal with my mats, I will not build someone / get masteries / get a module unless I will definitely use it. Operators like Surtr and Texalt are so generally good that masteries were an easy choice, someone like Firewhistle though, her masteries kinda suck.
As for why they exist, it's probably because the desiginers just need to make some kind of kit for them without powercreeping old ones I assume, but honestly we need more good 5 stars, too many are mediocre.
There's no BAD operators, Vigil, for example, would be good member of vanguardnights strategy because he can deal range arts damage, Lessing is good has nice damage and can be tanking range damage or be unstoppable force. I don't protect operators, I just want to say one thing: We DO need operators like that because it's a new strategy or way of playing
9:10
Bruh
The only thing this fish has is +% to her stats. What's overwhelming here?
Yeah, she's the shrimpleist 6 star there is. it'd be better to compare her 'information load' to 5 stars heh
Her Fast-redeploy nature, probably?
I do think there is an issue with bad operators who can’t do what they are intended for. Vigil and Spuria are in an entirely different category of Bad due to this.
Every useability gets beaten, if I don't like looking at an operator. I just don't think Degenbrecher is pretty. And the moment they give me an equal replacement for Mountain, I would ditch him.
well if all operators are "good" operators then that would take away the fun factor of the game...
having bad operators doesn't mean it's all "bad", it just adds more diversity for the players to pick their own strats and playstyle... also, it's a single player game...
Different views, different opinions. The point is to just agree to disagree.
I love weak characters just the same because I love their story or it makes me think more, and I love strong characters when it gets too hard and I need someone to decimate enemies.
Viviana is still the best 😅
Opinions on the take aside, I'm not sure why Lessing and Vivianna are on the thumbnail when they're damn good! :D
They're good in a vacuum
great video! sorry, i don't have anything special to add to the conversation this time 😞 im really tiring myself from writing all these paragraphs on your videos lol
Hmm, i was thinking those operators must be bad by design because it helps people to scale.
And people who scales, are the one with limited resources, or at least always thinking that way.
I'll be honest, I will raise all of them if i have unlimited resources.
There's no reason not to enrich myself with multitude variation of tools. No matter how niche it is. Even duplicates in utility could be useful.