▼EXPAND THIS SECTION FOR IMPORTANT INFO▼ Bow featherboards- Uniquely designed to reduce table saw kickback like no other featherboard I have ever used! amzn.to/430ldhv *LIKE THE BACKGROUND?* My hand tool collection includes premium tools from Bridge City Tool Works. They are as wonderful to use as they are to look at: bridgecitytools.com/ *Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!* (If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission) *Sanding Tutorial Videos:* - Random Orbital Sander Tricks: ruclips.net/video/0uvX4Xm2Y0I/видео.html - Comprehensive power sanding lesson: ruclips.net/video/qDYPGgjQmF4/видео.html - Sanding between coats of finish: ruclips.net/video/Q0lEM_BOgmo/видео.html - When to change your sandpaper: ruclips.net/video/5RKwsqccleI/видео.html - When to use variable speed: ruclips.net/video/v2uR3Qefmcg/видео.html - A game changing new sander: ruclips.net/video/uHkatzYGQeY/видео.html - Using sanding blocks: ruclips.net/video/EyBpO0S-SoI/видео.html - *Some other useful links:* -More videos on our website: stumpynubs.com/ -Subscribe to our e-Magazine: stumpynubs.com/browse-and-subscribe/ -Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/ -Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/ -Twitter: twitter.com/StumpyNubs ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★ -123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij -Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK -Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv -Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9 -Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg -Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK -Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC -Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW -Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam -Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7 -Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv -Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak -Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI -Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x -Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M -Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD
Another genuine, unpretentious, video with clear speech and pronunciation, no irritating music, nobody needing to try being a comedian. Thank you yet again
I have so far been too cheap to buy a random orbital, so 1/4 sheet has been my go to for finish sanding for 20+ years. In my experience, keeping the sander moving relatively rapidly, ending your session with passes with the grain, and stepping down slowly through grit sizes has yielded the best results. Don't ever stop moving the sander, let it get up to speed before touching it to wood, and keep it flat coming off edges are my best tips.
Same with me. Quarter sheet sanders are cheaper, and using full sheets of paper torn into quarters is much cheaper. Keep it constantly moving and work down through the grits. They work fine.
He has the vibe of like, your favorite highschool teacher? Love his videos and I don't even wood work (Although I wish I could,. damn apartment living)
@@maxaslagolis dont let it stop you. I lived in a 2bed apartment and in that apartment, I managed to build a kitchen island, raised platform, bed with understorage, wall-mounted computer desks and shelves.
Sadly its just not viable, I live in a really old building with thin walls and already barely have enough space as is. Hopefully i'll be moving to a proper house with a garage before too long @@elmohead
Obviously, I use both, depending on the circumstance, but one thing I learned about random orbitals early on was keep them away from interior edges and corners. They make nice deep grooves with the side of that disc spinning like a saw blade across a piece. I use a 1/4 sheet sander or hand sand interior edges with a sanding block now.
Ohh, you are so right. And that is indeed the Achilles' heel of the random orbital.. especially because the sanding disks tend to overlap the disk support surface. I usually try to "presand" those intersectional areas prior to assembly.. and that seems to help solve the issue for me - tho' it does lengthen project time a bit - but can be well worth the trouble of trying to fix a "whoops" moment.. YMMV
I used to have orbital triangle detail sanders, first a Bosch, then a Milwaukee, now a Grizzly (that doesn't really work), those were great for inside corners, a lot more control to keep edges in tact, but I haven't found an affordable one that works to replace them.
You don’t realize how much your comment just helped me.i just purchased my first random orbital sander and i like to hit the edges with my orbital sander.I guess I’ll practice before i do a project to be sure I don’t mess up anything.
"dat splains it, Lucy."...great information as usual!...after using the ole faithful 1/4 sheet sander for almost a half century, I bought a random orbital sander. ("old too soon, smart too late") I LOVE my new sander. nuff said. Thanks once again, Stumpy!.
Please indulge me with this comment: awhile back you introduced us to the Bow Products push stick. I am a convert. It’s so much better than any shop-made push sticks. But now I’ve discovered, thanks to you, their feather-board and other products. I’m placing another order tomorrow: THANK YOU!
I had the 1/4 sheet sander first and bought a random orbit sander a few years later. I use the random orbit sander much more although I do still use the 1/4 sheet sander with finer paper mostly. I tend to agree with your opinion and for the same reasons. Great video!
My first sander was a third-sheet I got for $5 used. It was basically worthless. Bought a Craftsman 1/4 sheet soon after. I did end up with the pigtails in a couple of tabletops that left me looking for alternatives. I bought a Makita BO5000 in the mid-ninetys and never looked back, still using Makita sanders today. Even then, I found some sanding marks. Working in an auto parts store, I began investigating options. I found a 3M system of hand blocks and 2 3/4" PSA abrasive rolls used primarily on pneumatic longboards. I bought three blocks, marked them as 100, 150 and 220 and bought three 40yd rolls of corresponding abrasive. This is, in my mind, the perfect solution for the very occasional hand sanding that I do. In fact, I still have the original roll of 220 from twenty-five years ago. In any power sanding I believe the key factor necessary to negate the pigtail problem is adequate dust extraction. Get some type of system dedicated to sanding. You don't need the fancy stuff...even a small shop vacuum will work. But...buy a high quality hose and attachment system. I spent more for the hose than I did on the vacuum. Why? Because it is far more flexible and far less cumbersome you will be far more likely to use it! Most folk think sanding is a chore. I enjoy it. It is the last woodworking step to complete before you become a finisher. It is the step that can turn a pumpkin into a princess. Take your time... don't rush... make something to be proud of.
I work in a custom cabinetry shop. We use the Mirka System with both a random orbit sander and an orbital square sander. Our typical process is rough lumber gets sanded starting with 80, then 120, then 180. At this point we prime it. After priming, we buff the item using 320 before the finish coat of paint. The random orbital sander gets most of the work done, but the square orbital is great for inside corners such as the panels on shaker doors.
Second, wahoo! I recently put in a new outside deck, good australian spotted gum, a hardwood. Thought I'd be smart and sand it down initially with a belt sander, all good...moved down to an orbital, again, all good. Then I got focussed on a really smooth finish, and worked it over with a random orbital sander down to 240 grain paper...ultra smooth finish, could have been a table top. Sealed it off with deck oil. Next morning, first few steps on it, I went head over tail and landed on my butt. The random orbital had totally taken the grain down to nearly zero, and it was impossible to get any purchase with shoes on, even worse when wet. Back to 180 grain paper and a run over with the belt sander, again. Lesson learnt.
This is definitely not sponsored (since I don't have or want a youtube channel :) That same feather board saved me yesterday! Where did I first hear about them? Right here on your channel! I am a FIRM believer in them. Thank you for bringing them to my attention and thank you to the folks that came up with the idea... I know for a fact that I wouldn't be typing this today if I had not been using one yesterday. Please keep doing what you do!
I've been doing woodworking for over 45 years. In my opinion, the ultimate sander on at least flat plane surfaces is definitely a belt. Sander the biggest advantage to belt sanders is if you sand with the grain and continue to reduce your grit down to say a 220 or more, any lines completely disappear and you can take it one final step if you want to and that is to use steel wool and you can end up with an absolute mirror finish
Us belt sander lovers are definitely in the minority. I build full-time and I am constantly reaching for it to level stuff and flat and stuff and it works so good once you learn how to use it.
@@michaelsummer7082 yeah and another major advantage to belt sanders is it's easy to use a cleaning stick and make the belt just like brand new and just a couple seconds flat.
Newish woodworker here and I've never understood why belt sanders aren't the go to for sanding. Just makes more sense. No pigtails and cover way more in a shorter amount of time. Weird
My 15-20 year old Makita finally gave up the ghost. After looking at several reviews I bought the Bosch ROS20VSC from Lowes. Couldnt be more pleased. Its a dust dust collector that doubles as a sander. Less dust in the air or on the workpiece than any other sander Ive ever used. Price is right too.
You definitely earned a subscriber in me!Im always willing to learn from anyone.Im one of very few people that think that you never stop learning your whole life.
I've been using a 1/4 sheet sander since I learned about woodworking as a 4-H member 40+ years ago. I always do my final sanding by hand. I never knew about the circles, I was just taught that way. I'm sure glad Dad taught me well.😊
In recent years, I have moved to almost exclusively using sanding mesh rather than sandpaper. Dust collection works much better and the mesh is much less likely to clog. I find the mesh has a much longer life, particularly because it can be easily cleaned and reused, while cleaning paper increases wear and limits sandpaper life. [This may vary between brands, so consider manufacturer quality!] Mesh can be purchased in 4 1/4" rolls, which is very cost effective for palm (i.e. finish) sanders, or in disks. A wide range of grits is available. I guess what I most like is that rough sanding goes quicker with mesh because it takes much longer to clog and is quick and easy to clear. That combined with the long life and reusability makes mesh both time saving and cost effective.
The heavy duty Bosch random orbital sander with the turbo direct drive mode has changed my life. Worth the high cost. Way better than any belt sander I've had, and great in random mode as a finish sander.
I’ve worked with both types of sanders, including a small 1inch triangular orbital sander. I’m a painter and I also do casework. Currently we are sanding off clear coat and stain from cabinets and restaining and clear coating. I’ve learned to really like orbital sanders but it does take more time to learn the right technique, it is sometimes necessary since we have to work around hinges, to get corners and whatnot as opposed to a round sander.
Back in the 80's there was really only one 1/4 sheet sander available that I ever saw, and it was made by Makita. I don't know about the tiny circular marks on the workpiece, but I can tell you it did a heck of a job vibrating your hand. Probably better at vibrating your hand than sanding anything. I think this might have been the only tool I threw away. Replaced it with what I think might have been the first powered (as opposed to air driven) random orbit (or dual action, we called it) sander by Porter Cable. What a joy, what a difference. I wish I had all those hours I wasted giving myself nerve damage in the hand with that Makita sander back now.
Porter Cable 330 Speed-Bloc was a 1/4 sheet orbital that was definitely around back then. The Makita's were harsher but they did their job well enough.
Nothing felt better throwing all of those old noise making sanders in the garbage for me once I discovered festool and adjustable suction dust collection. Best work investment I ever made. Never looked back or cried about the price. Just the anti static features made it worth it
OMG! I couldn't figure out where those sqiggly lines were coming from and now I know. Just ordered a 5" ROS and will of course be going over the work to fix it. Thank you thank you thank you!
As a small side note to the "all power sanders cut in all directions" part, I have ran across some old 1/2 sheet sanders that oscillate back and forth and not in the orbit style and they do only cut back and forth as they will walk themselves off the table which lead to the sander races with these (not the belt sanders) that bored wood workers would do. If you got the right sandpaper and figured out how it was made then the grains would have a bit more grip in one direction than the other so it could walk. They could only be used with the grain and you never wanted to use heavy grit sand paper with them, the roughest would be 100 grit maybe 80. You can get pretty smooth finishes with them and pretty consistently too. They were very prone to building up dust under them pretty quickly and would burn the wood so doing long sweeps with it helped stop that. That's why they never really got anywhere commercially.
Love that you stress technique, technique, technique. ANY tool used improperly or with poor technique is not only going to produce poor results but could also be dangerous. Your pointing this out is super valuable to those who pay attention.
I wish he would have said which sander did he thought was better and I have both Sanders and I was thinking about taking the orbital back for a refund because I don't think I'll need it because I had some dark spots and my belt sander was able to remove
thank you for the tutorial tips. I'm about to use a palm sander for the 1st time on a small wood project. You taught me how to watch out for the small pieces of debris under the sanding paper that would cause problems on the finished wood.
I have used all types of mechanical sanders and all fail to leave a clear surface finish. Their only value is to remove varying depths of wood prior to the professional surface created by using scrapers correctly. The look they leave is breathtaking. A good series of tutorials is how to develop these skills and equipment could prove invaluable. This is how the wonderful finishes of antiques were consistency achieved. Have fun.
I'm smack in the middle of learning this lesson now. I've got both sanders, and no matter how hard I try, there are in consistencies all over the wood (and grooves). Part of the reason is that the wood isn't level, and you can't "feel"what you're doing. Thankfully isn't not a piece of furniture, it's a pre-fabbed workbench top, that I'm just trying to seal. But, if the sanding isn't good, the bad spots sticks out. It's not horrible, but *I* see it, and it drives me nuts. So, I'm about to leave "well-enough" alone, given the context, but its been a BIG learning experience as to what these sanders *arn't* capable of. I almost bought a belt sander, but I figured it would give me the same results as the others, just much quicker. Which in this case would be a good thing....but, that's not enough of a priority to drop $260 for just the tool.
Laser cut multi-layered art pieces, mostly out of birch plywood is my primary use of sanders. A 1/4 sheet sander has had the best results over the random orbital. With all of the random shaped holes in the material, using a round random orbital can have too much momentum and may break thin features between the holes and destroy a part in seconds. I recently got a cordless 1/4 sheet with adjustable speed and regret not getting it sooner. The fine control in delicate areas has been a game changer for removing the burn marks around features.
I got the Bow Featherboard because of your recommendation. I love it. It's the best one I've used by far. Also the knobs are some of my favorite ones from any product. 😊
I bought a Dewalt 1/4 sheet sander twenty or so years ago and still use it today. If it had a hook and loop pad to hold the paper on I would use it a lot more because the fiddly little clamps that secure the paper are so hard to manipulate. Great video James, thanks.
I had that trouble with every 1/4 sheet sander, too. I also had a real problem with the paper tearing. Their dust collection sucks and the dust causes the sandpaper to fail fast. I eventually threw them all out. When I bought my first Festool sander I was in love. It almost made sanding fun.
yea, same experience with the DeWalt, that thing is a workhorse! If a project allows, I stack a couple of sheets in the sander and just tear off the used layers when they wear, are uncloggable or tear on their own. The battery Ridgid 1/4 has a better paper hold-down but is sorta a meh tool.
I just built a really nice fireplace surround from floor to ceiling for a customer. They ordered a mantle off of the internet, just a cheap hollow one with a French cleat that was horrible,The swirl marks were everywhere!!!! Like worst I’ve ever seen ,yea and it was stained already. Spent more time fixing it than what they originally paid . I’m not going to do the best work I can on a beautiful focal piece in a great room with a mantle that looks like a 5 year old built it . Anyway love the videos makes my day when you post !
in our shop we use the 1/4 sheet (we call it a pad sander) for round shapes because it won't leave facets or flat spots like the random orbit will because it has a spongy pad that will form to the shape of the wood, we use the random orbit on flat surfaces and concave surfaces using the round shape of the random orbit at an angle to match the concave shape. hand sand for final finish
I somehow ended up with 2 5" random orbital sanders, and a third one was bundled with another tool. I was saving it to either sell or give away, until a gnarly recycled wood project caused me to destroy the pads on the other two. You enlightened me as to how to avoid that problem, but I broke out the third one to finish the project, so now have three. I am now experimenting with keeping all three with course, medium, and fine discs ready to rock. As for dust collection, all three have different sized ports, and of course none fit any hoses that I have available. Instead I use the small dust bags that came with them, and when the project has the finish drying on it, I take the three out on the porch and blow them all clean with compressed air. So far this seems to be a practical solution. Thanks for your informative videos. Project next is your router plane, mine made from laminated ash, using the Veritas blades you mentioned. In a long life, this is the most fun I have ever had with all my clothes on!
I have a sheet sander but I thought it moved only back and forth and that I needed a random orbit sander to sand properly. Thanks for the information, ill start to actually use the sheet sander instead of handsanding everything!
As you talked about sanding with the grain, I kept thinking of all the times Gibbs (NCIS) would tell people in his basement (and occasionally, elsewhere) to sand with the grain. With all the boats he made over 20 years, he probably went through quite a bit of sandpaper. And, as he noted in the first episode, the only power items in the basement were the single light bulb and the idiot box. I am gonna subscribe because while I am not a woodworker it doesn't hurt to learn new stuff. Thanks.
As a UK decorator for over 40 years I have used all types and sizes of sanders from the small triangle sanders up to walk behind floor sanders. I bought a Dewalt cordless random orbit sander as that was the only cordless sander they made, which I was quite happy with apart from 2 things, running cost and not being able to get into corners or up against carpet. Then they released the cordless 1/4 sheet sander, so I bought one from Amazon USA as it was much cheaper. What a difference, I wish that they had brung it out first then I wouldn't have the 2 sanders. The differences are that the RO does a better job it is about 3 times the cost to use. The dust extraction even with a vacuum hooked up is not as good with the 1/4 sheet. Having said that the 1/4 sheet sander is my go to tool. I use the rolls of sandpaper which work out fairly economical. I would recommend the RO for workshop use and the 1/4 for on the job use. The 1/4 sheet is more versatile so it;s a winner for me. On a footnote for workshop use stick to corded tools to save money and to keep consistant power. Great informative videos.
many moons ago when I was a young lad, I was working as a Mechanic for a cabinet shop, whenever I had all the vehicles running, he didn't want be to go somewhere else, so he had me sanding cabinet faces, all we had was the 1/4 sheet sanders, I think it was a very fine grit of 400 or more, than years later when I started playing with wood more then metal one of the first things I picked up was a 1/4 sheet sander, I used it for some time, before someone gave me a old orbiting sander, which I used for 4 years or so before buying a brand new one, which is old now, but all 3 still run when needed, Must admit I'm became a fan of the 20v dw210 that I use almost daily.
I have 5 different sanders for different detailing. I really like my quarter sheet sander for like you said I can use different grits of paper but I hand sand thanks to your teaching, and love my final results . Thanks for your videos you are a great teacher.❤❤❤❤
I have a belt sander and a quarter sheet sander (I've always called it a "palm sander") and the customization of grits by using regular sandpaper sheets is unmatched utility for me. I have all of my agressiveness/fineness bases covered between the belt and palm sanders. My 2 cents is that it's better to dwell a bit longer in one spot with a finer grit as opposed to using a coarser grit for less time and trying to bail out of any deep scratches later on
Concise, excellent tutorial. Also, I just installed the BOW fence, feather boards and support blocks onto a DeWalt join site table saw, and another set of BOW feather boards to replace the manufacturer’s OEM version on the Bosch RA1181 router table. Haven’t used yet but it’s nice having the same anti-kickback safety system on both power tools.
Thanks for the tutorial and the video. I used to use orbital sanders, but found I didn't have the patience to sand in my early years.. leaving many projects with the so-so finish you show. When I got my first random orbital sander, I never looked back. VERY efficient, compressed my sanding time by more than half, didn't have to go through the aggravation of a fiddly sandpaper replacement that the sheet sanders tend to have (for me, anyway), and waayyyy better results. OMIGOSH, yes, the velcro backed disks are very expensive.. but I'll gladly pay the price.. just to cut the shaping and finishing time down!
Great video, very helpful for those who are not familiar with the differences. As far as random orbital sanders go l finally bought a Festool version. Best thing l did, it works well and continues to do so. I found the off shelf domestic brands all had the same issue, they just plain wear out and fail within eight to ten months. Totally agree that the final sanding should be by hand, with the grain. It makes such a great difference to the final finish.
I generally use a finishing sander, and borrow a random orbital when possible 😀 As james said, I always finish with hand sanding at the end. Recently did the Dining table with the finishing Sander, and doubt you will find a single squiggle from the sander. But it takes a certain amount of diligence.
Metabo 1/3 sheet sander I bought in 1986. 2200 revolutions per minute..try to buy one now! The best tool I ever bought. All the antique dealers told me to buy one. I believe Black and Decker bought them out so I'm not recommending it.
Thanks for the great information. I've used a 1/4 sheet sander for years. I use a good quality 3M paper and work through the grits to get a progressively fine finish. There is not substitute for hand sanding for a super smooth finish.
I always use a half-sheet sander so that I can create a flat surface instead of a hollowed out one. Using a quarter-sheet sander it's far too easy to dig a hole, and ruin the surface. Sadly, in my home town, the only 1/2 sheet sanders available start as a positively insane $450. I think I paid $90 for my Ryobi. Thanks, hardware stores - you are really awesome.
I was wedded to my Ryobi 1/4-sheet sander for years, then it and the next two had mechanical problems, and I went 5" ROS, which works fine (and coarse, and medium). Since then, with Cubitron disks, cost isn't a factor: I'm still using the initial (sample pack) disks from two years ago [the backing wore to the point it wouldn't stay on the hook/loop connection, but it still serves well on hand sanding blocks]. I may never buy a piece of sandpaper again.
As a retired kitchen remodeler, I always used a quarter sheet sander on wood. Would start with 100 grit & go to 200 grit. After that, I would block-hand sand to about 320 grit.
Good comment about HAND-sanding the final stroke. I don’t have a random orb sander. Not sure I’ll ever buy one. I’ve used my Dewalt palm sander extensively and I love it. One problem tho… Sanding against raised edges will wear on the rubber pad, between the platen and paper. Eventually, 1/4-sheet paper becomes too long and the paper installs loose, so I end up cutting a small strip off, which results in a 24/100ths-sheet paper… then 23/100-sheet… 22/100 sheet and so on. Eventually, the pad gets worn down to the point where continued sanding will begin to wear out the platen. Granted, the platen is easy to replace, but try not to get that far.
I’ve made a few boxes in the last 27 years. The sequence of doing the total build is important, and when you do the sanding between steps! Sanding at the right time, as you go, is important, too. I rarely make one box at a time, usually 3 to 8 boxes at a time. It is more efficient doing all the boxes at each step, as you go. THE STEPS I USE: 1. Cutting of all the pieces, minimizing set ups. 2. Inside sanding of all the piece, 3. Assembly of each box, one at a time until all are assembled. 4. Finish sanding the outside of each box, one at a time. 5. Parting off the lids of each box, then plane or sanding the cut parted edges for perfect fit. 6. Adding hardwares, a box at a time. 7. The last act is then final finish sanding with sanding blocks as required ready for finish coats! Then applying finish coats of finish. I like Tung oil used inside and out, usually All boxes done and finished at the same time. SANDING EQUIPMENT: A. Sanding Blocks and Pad sanders, Sand paper, cut in 4 pieces (two different ways) for pad sanders and block hand sanders. A. two or more Block sanders, one for each of the various grits of sand paper to be used one for each grit. hand sanding blocks or more 1 for each 120, 180, 220 and 380. Two pad sanders for 120 and 220 grit. One random orbital sanders for 100 grit. I run thru the grits on each piece at a time until done, then all of them done. After I have the 6 pieces/box (times the number of boxes to build) cut, and everything is to size, I finish the sand the insides, then after assembled I finish sand the outside of the box. Part the lid off the box, then plane and or sand the cut edges flush.
Quarter sheet sanders will also vibrate in such a way that if you use them for a while, your hand will itch like crazy due to increased blood flow in your operative hand. Never such a problem with my random orbital sander.
If your hands 'tingle' with ANY vibrating tool, that is actually a sign of nerve damage and you should be wearing 'anti-vibration' gloves with padded palms and fingers. Continued use will eventually lead to permanent nerve damage - 'Dead Finger' and 'White Finger' in old work safety documents talking about hand held pneumatic tools like scaling guns, grinders and jack hammers - you can even get it riding push bikes on rough roads (one source of anti vibration gloves is a good specialist bike shop, who may be cheaper than 'industrial' suppliers who expect you to write off their high prices via your tax)
Great rundown and proof positive there are situations that work great for both sanders. Also I can vouch for the Bow featherboards, I bought one and it is absolutely as advertised. Kickback is a real thing and this device will legit lower your chances of experiencing it dramatically.
It’s pretty easy to make your own sanding blocks. I have four 5” orbital sanders. I don’t like to change papers. So I change sanders. But when I wear out the paper disc of what ever grit. It goes into a box. Each box is labeled for each grit and the blocks that I make sit right on top. So when you blow out the shop the paper stays put.The blocks I make are 5” long usually 2” tall and have cork board on the bottom. A nice piece of oak works well. Just use contact cement for the cork board. Have a good one 😊
Just a thought, don't know if you've done one but I'd love to see a full blown video from you going over "Japanese pull saws", flush cut saws and coping saws. The differences between them and some recommendations of really good ones that won't break the bank
I use both in my shop all the time, I almost exclusively use a “finishing” sander on plastics (I do a lot of 3d printing) because orbital sanders will destroy plastics a lot of the time
Im shopping for a sander for both wood and 3d printing. I think I might try to get a corded bosch random orbital for wood and a cordless finishing sander for my 3d prints
@@coreyoneill6912 I’d honestly say the “corded vs cordless” debate is kinda floppy now a days, I have a corded 3m sander that has been collecting dust for years now and I use exclusively cordless sanders, I get about 1-2 hours of work out of a 4 amp battery on my dewalt sanders if you are a pro using it ALL day then sure but for the average guy 2 batteries will get you around 2-3 hours of straight work Personally I’d just grab a combo kit from your preferred power tool brand, on Black Friday you will likely be able to get both sanders, an extra charger, and a few large batteries for less than you will pay for one of them any other time.
Contrary to convention, I use the RO sander for the more aggressive grits, and a belt sander for intermediate. The belt removes any cross grain scratches left by the RO, and makes the subsequent (and final) fine grit or two by hand pretty easy. Not mentioned in this video, but if I know Stumpy he has said it elsewhere, is to move through the grits in small jumps. Trying to erase scratches made by an 80 grit RO with a 150 grit belt or hand sander will take a LONG time.
Pretty funny, was literally thinking about this yesterday. I have been only been using 1/4 sander my whole life but have been seeing everyone using the rando sander. I get the pigtails, but have learned over the years to get far fewer and high-grit rub 'em out. I will always hand-sand, no matter what, at the end. Funny, I've been calling my sander an "oscillating sander" and thought the rando was the "true" 'orbital' sander. Great vid!
I use both types of sanders. On my 1/4 sheet sander, I learned to hard way to be very careful about the type of sandpaper I use. A major brand changed the formula for the backing to give it more grip. Unfortunately the high grip material became a heat activated glue on my sander’s foam platten and stuck fast to it. When I tried to remove the worn sandpaper, it tore off chunks of the platten. I posted a complaint about it on Lowe’s website and the sandpaper manufacturer contacted me and then paid to replace my sander part. That was very nice of them, but now I choose sandpaper without a grippy backing.
A TALE OF TWO SANDERS: At work we used quarter sheet De Walt sanders. They work great, but the large round top simply was not comfortable to use. They simply did NOT fit the hand! I bought a sander to use at home, and selected a Makita because the top was shape to provide a very comfortable hold. It was more comfortable right up until I turned it on. That thing vibrates so badly that after just a few minutes use my hand remains numb for about half an hour. It does a good enough job sanding, but if inverted that little devil could be used as a jackhammer.
I use both at my sheet plastics fabrication job. For a pristine edge that you can see clearly through use the random orbital , 180, followed by 360, followed by 400+ with the 1/4 sheet sander. Once saw marks and the entire of all edges have a consistently smooth matt surface, then buff it with a generous amount of that clay like buffing compound. 👍 Good video, I've been wondering because I only use the random at home on wood, then hands sand with the grain after
I do like the 1/4s, tips are: 1) Don't puncture the paper on the finish run, sharp edges on the holes can bugger everything up, 2) You will need to wear paper in to begin with, the swirl pigtails are usually left by the prominent bits of grit. You dress a grinding stone, dress your paper, even on some scrap wood or other flat surface. 3) Buy good quality paper ( wet and dry I like) and use the clamps, change the paper regularly, it's cheaper so changes mean faster work.
I haven’t used,(literally my Father’s) orbital sander for 30 years, no advantage and discs are so easy to change. But for a true craftsman finish, hand sand or scrape!
An important thing to consider when looking at a 1/4 sheet sander is how the paper is attached. I had an old black and decker that had a really good clamping design, it wore out and I purchased a Makita since I have a lot of Makita tools, the clamp system is a real pain. I am still looking for a better clamping system. Good program.
I have all three types of sanders and generally use them as I need them for a project. As you stated, the orbital sander is much better on rounded edges than the random orbit sander is because the base doesn't spin. The other orbital sander has that tight point tip which is great for getting into corners such as the inside of a drawer. I had to learn a technique to keep those ugly pigtail swirls out of my projects and it does take longer due to having to move in just about every single direction on the project, but you can get great results if you are patient. Mind you, hand sanding is still generally required for even the "finish" sanders to get the project to the final finish you want. Overall, your shop isn't complete, unless you own all three types of sanders and learn how to use them.
I have numerous sanders. I use blue tape and write the grit on top of each sander so I can go from coarse to fine on a project. But on flat horizontal surfaces I really like a long board hand sander to get it flat with no grit circles, and if you have bungs offer screw heads very important see so they don't stand proud after you finish.
Having seen this video I went out and bought a rechargeable orbital sander. I already have a couple of belt sanders which don't produce the pigs' tails but they are heavy and have to be used within range of a power socket. Not for the first time, thanks for your advice.
Early in my woodworking days, I bought a 1/4 sheet sander for the very reason you described - economy of using standard sheets of sandpaper. That little sander seemed to cause me more work than it saved, I am sure in part to my inexperienced hand, but boy am I familiar with that dreaded swirl pattern. Long ago I got a random orbit sander, and have loved using it! You may think with so much re-work that 1/4 sheet sander caused me, I quit using it years ago... not true!! Interestingly, a green scrubbing pad will JUST fit in the clamps! I also have the absolute worst condition any woodworker has, which is to say my table saw is outside!! Under the car port, but still subject to whims of humidity. You may be surprised to find I fight rust a lot less than you might think, however, I do have to deal with rust on the table saw top on occasion. The 1/4 sheet sander, with a green scrubbing pad, with a rust cleaner, works quite well!!
I was given an old Milwaukee 1/4 sheet sander, and it's a monster. With 60 gtit, it grinds material off faster than a belt sander. Doesn't seem to be a way to turn it down. and it shales the table. My random orbital is used to fix the 'damage' the first one does. Since almost all my work is very rough=sawn live edge spruce (Alaska) it's very useful.
I use a lot of cheap menards tools (hobbyist woodworker) but upgrading my sanding tools and following your advice has helped me drastically. I'm spending more time enjoying the build of my projects instead of cursing at the finishing stage haha. I've always seen the 1/4 sheet sander as something painters use. Never thought about using it for weird spots or angles where I would need more control. Another helpful video!
Agreed. The swirls can be a sad issue. Early on, with my first cut-sheet sander, I was dismayed that the cross-grain scratches in pine took in the stain. Generally, the final sand must be strictly linear with the gain. Not worth the risk not to.
My thing about sanders and manufacturers is that particulates from sanding, both from the material and the abrasive stock, are airborne and can damage your lungs/airways. So why aren't all with some HEPA filtration bag or all have remote-on vacuum controls (e.g. Festool) ? Oh and nice haircut, Stumpy... looking professional! :)
The only time I used a 1/4 sheet sander successfully was when I screwed it to the bottom of an intricate poured plaster freeze mould and used it to degas the plaster before it cured. It worked beautifully! So I actually found a use for an essentially useless tool (In my opinion).
I use both types of sanders but for different purposes. I use the quarter-sheet sander because of the economics of sheet sandpaper and to sand small smaller pieces with curves, in corners, and over edges. I only seem to use the random orbital sander with finer grits on flat surfaces like table tops, shelves, and cabinet sides. It is a good practice to sand before assembly whenever possible, especially the insides of boxes.
Thanks Stubs, for the link to keeping my fingers on my hand, less than AU $100.00 for that small brain lapse and a lifetime of what if,, keep up the good work! Cheers Howie
Use to exclusively use the finish sander and hated it. Vibrated, swirl marks. Frustrating to use. I use exclusively a dewalt random orbit. No vibration whatsoever, incredible finish and frankly with a hepa vac - no dust so never go back to the finish sander (plus) changing sandpaper is so quick when switching between grits. Try that on the finish sander and enjoy the tedium of it all :) Great video as always.
retired furniture maker here. whilst i use a random for the coarser grits ie 80 and 120, i use the finish (1/3 sheet) sander for the final 180. maybe just habit but i find it easier to get a better final finish with this than a random. then followed by hand sanding with the grain. as i usually plane all finished pieces beforehand my sanding routine is pretty quick. with the two coarser grades. could just go to 180 to roughen up the surface for finish but prefer to go through the whole process. maybe the reason for the habit is we only had finish and belt sanders when i started and randoms came a long later.
I only use the orbital sanders. The only thing I've found that takes care, is to pay attention to your grits and don't skip grits now than one coarseness at a time. And just make sure to check your paper each time you stop. Those pig tails are mainly caused when your paper gets gummed up with wood, and possibly too much pressure causing heat and not allowing the dust to escape. I mainly use them as actual finishing sanding though, from 120 or 150, 220 and 320. Just watch your later and they're fine.
The model of sander is very important , while I have a bunch of sanders, each one has a place, the two that do 90% of my work are a Makita 3x24 belt sander and a little 1/4 sheet Dewalt. There is very good reason why the Makita is the industrial standard in cabinet shops, Balance and Durability. The quarter sheet was picked up on sale, it is a yellow version of the French designed Elue . I lucked out, it is great little sander. I use 120 grit belts almost exclusively . If I want to cut a bunch, I'll use a disc sander. Great for trimming doors, BTW. After the belt sander it's the quarter sheet. The quarter sheet gets 220 stearate coated. Then between varnish coats, 220 grit again. That little Elue/Dewalt is now a Porter Cable model. 120 and 220 grits only. A power tool can span grit sizes so you don't have to change. My 5" Bocsh RO is great for applying wax and then polishing cars. It takes all the work out of it. It's worthwhile purchase just for that, alone. It does get the odd sanding job, I'm on my third plate in fact.
I've got a high end and quality lower end random orbit. I had a third, but a buddy needed it. I've got my Fein MultiTool and I, always, have at least three quarter sheet sanders. Every one of my sanders are worth their weight. The ROS's are king when it comes to being able to sand without too much concern for shop clean up, producing a good surface, and for LONG lasting sanding media. The quarter sheets ALWAYS get used inside my sanding station, which, though it has three sides, a back and a top, has flexible sides that allow me to do long pieces, but still force the air pulled in by the dust collector to be pulled from the front. The quarter sheet sanders trump the ROS for, for example, walking sticks that start out as five foot long 1-1/2" square stock, which is, then, routered on all four sides using a 3/4" roundover bit. Trying to do what the quarter sheet sanders can on, as mentioned in the video, radiused surfaces, is like trying to herd cats and deal with a wild mouse, in each others company. The ROS isn't bad on radiused surfaces that run straight, but many of mine are curved, so the cat and mouse thing applies. Especially if I try to take advantage of what a vacuum does for the sanding processes. Sadly, there are many out there who would try to convince others of both their expertise and the worthlessness of the quarter sheet sanders. SIDE NOTE: If you can take advantage of a vacuum with your quarter sheet sander and it won't interfere with your ability to manipulate it over curves surfaces, their efficiency (e.g., use of sanding abrasive and better results) improves greatly, though they'd play hell competing with a ROS.
Novice woodworker here. I have had great success with a finish sander for most of my work. Right up until I was working with Acacia. I simply could not remove the pig tails with it. Acacia hates it so much I had to go all the way back to 80 grit and start again hand sanding my way with single direction strokes through 120 and 180 grit. Doesn't sound to bad til I say the project was a massive desktop. My shoulder still isn't happy every time I think about that.
I would be interested in your thoughts on linear sanders, like the Festool Duplex linear sander. It has a back and forth motion only, so works best with the grain direction. It also allows excellent sanding of V grooves etc, which is what i bought it for, but it has become my go-to sander for most things now.
A ROS is a great tool, but for people like myself with hand grip issues, holding a palm sander can be tiring. Fortunately, I found that Makita offers a model that can be used as a palm sander but also has a regular grip and outrigger knob. I really like the BO5041K that I bought about a decade ago.
Great video. At least one aspect to deciding which one, is what you are sanding. I tend to need a sander to smooth rough edges, or beveling joined pieces in decks and railings. The 1/4 sander is handier/better for this and I rarely pull the orbital out.
I have two RO sanders. A 5mm orbit 6 inch mains machine for the lions share and a 5 inch battery for mobile and finishing work. Fighting the urge to get a mouse sander but can see it in my future. Also use a foam mouse and UFO that take the 5 inch discs. Covers most eventualities.
![Which Sander When? [video #356]](/img/1.gif)
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Another genuine, unpretentious, video with clear speech and pronunciation, no irritating music, nobody needing to try being a comedian. Thank you yet again
Lol true agree
I have so far been too cheap to buy a random orbital, so 1/4 sheet has been my go to for finish sanding for 20+ years. In my experience, keeping the sander moving relatively rapidly, ending your session with passes with the grain, and stepping down slowly through grit sizes has yielded the best results. Don't ever stop moving the sander, let it get up to speed before touching it to wood, and keep it flat coming off edges are my best tips.
Same with me. Quarter sheet sanders are cheaper, and using full sheets of paper torn into quarters is much cheaper. Keep it constantly moving and work down through the grits. They work fine.
Best woodworking channel out there. Everything is clear. Information is clear, no attempted comedy, product placement is clear, well-researched.
He has the vibe of like, your favorite highschool teacher? Love his videos and I don't even wood work (Although I wish I could,. damn apartment living)
@@maxaslagolis dont let it stop you. I lived in a 2bed apartment and in that apartment, I managed to build a kitchen island, raised platform, bed with understorage, wall-mounted computer desks and shelves.
Sadly its just not viable, I live in a really old building with thin walls and already barely have enough space as is. Hopefully i'll be moving to a proper house with a garage before too long @@elmohead
@@maxaslagolis ah man, good luck with the future workshop then!
There is attempted comedy. You’re just missing it.
Obviously, I use both, depending on the circumstance, but one thing I learned about random orbitals early on was keep them away from interior edges and corners. They make nice deep grooves with the side of that disc spinning like a saw blade across a piece. I use a 1/4 sheet sander or hand sand interior edges with a sanding block now.
Good tip
Ohh, you are so right. And that is indeed the Achilles' heel of the random orbital.. especially because the sanding disks tend to overlap the disk support surface. I usually try to "presand" those intersectional areas prior to assembly.. and that seems to help solve the issue for me - tho' it does lengthen project time a bit - but can be well worth the trouble of trying to fix a "whoops" moment.. YMMV
Agree, the biggest pitfall of random orbit sanders is putting ugly grooves on the inside edges of stuff
I used to have orbital triangle detail sanders, first a Bosch, then a Milwaukee, now a Grizzly (that doesn't really work), those were great for inside corners, a lot more control to keep edges in tact, but I haven't found an affordable one that works to replace them.
You don’t realize how much your comment just helped me.i just purchased my first random orbital sander and i like to hit the edges with my orbital sander.I guess I’ll practice before i do a project to be sure I don’t mess up anything.
"dat splains it, Lucy."...great information as usual!...after using the ole faithful 1/4 sheet sander for almost a half century, I bought a random orbital sander. ("old too soon, smart too late") I LOVE my new sander. nuff said. Thanks once again, Stumpy!.
Great video, but I think I’m even more impressed with your tool organization!
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I had the 1/4 sheet sander first and bought a random orbit sander a few years later. I use the random orbit sander much more although I do still use the 1/4 sheet sander with finer paper mostly. I tend to agree with your opinion and for the same reasons. Great video!
My first sander was a third-sheet I got for $5 used. It was basically worthless. Bought a Craftsman 1/4 sheet soon after. I did end up with the pigtails in a couple of tabletops that left me looking for alternatives. I bought a Makita BO5000 in the mid-ninetys and never looked back, still using Makita sanders today.
Even then, I found some sanding marks. Working in an auto parts store, I began investigating options. I found a 3M system of hand blocks and 2 3/4" PSA abrasive rolls used primarily on pneumatic longboards. I bought three blocks, marked them as 100, 150 and 220 and bought three 40yd rolls of corresponding abrasive. This is, in my mind, the perfect solution for the very occasional hand sanding that I do. In fact, I still have the original roll of 220 from twenty-five years ago.
In any power sanding I believe the key factor necessary to negate the pigtail problem is adequate dust extraction. Get some type of system dedicated to sanding. You don't need the fancy stuff...even a small shop vacuum will work. But...buy a high quality hose and attachment system. I spent more for the hose than I did on the vacuum. Why? Because it is far more flexible and far less cumbersome you will be far more likely to use it!
Most folk think sanding is a chore. I enjoy it. It is the last woodworking step to complete before you become a finisher. It is the step that can turn a pumpkin into a princess. Take your time... don't rush... make something to be proud of.
I work in a custom cabinetry shop. We use the Mirka System with both a random orbit sander and an orbital square sander. Our typical process is rough lumber gets sanded starting with 80, then 120, then 180. At this point we prime it. After priming, we buff the item using 320 before the finish coat of paint. The random orbital sander gets most of the work done, but the square orbital is great for inside corners such as the panels on shaker doors.
Second, wahoo! I recently put in a new outside deck, good australian spotted gum, a hardwood. Thought I'd be smart and sand it down initially with a belt sander, all good...moved down to an orbital, again, all good. Then I got focussed on a really smooth finish, and worked it over with a random orbital sander down to 240 grain paper...ultra smooth finish, could have been a table top. Sealed it off with deck oil. Next morning, first few steps on it, I went head over tail and landed on my butt. The random orbital had totally taken the grain down to nearly zero, and it was impossible to get any purchase with shoes on, even worse when wet. Back to 180 grain paper and a run over with the belt sander, again. Lesson learnt.
This is definitely not sponsored (since I don't have or want a youtube channel :) That same feather board saved me yesterday! Where did I first hear about them? Right here on your channel! I am a FIRM believer in them. Thank you for bringing them to my attention and thank you to the folks that came up with the idea... I know for a fact that I wouldn't be typing this today if I had not been using one yesterday. Please keep doing what you do!
I've been doing woodworking for over 45 years. In my opinion, the ultimate sander on at least flat plane surfaces is definitely a belt. Sander the biggest advantage to belt sanders is if you sand with the grain and continue to reduce your grit down to say a 220 or more, any lines completely disappear and you can take it one final step if you want to and that is to use steel wool and you can end up with an absolute mirror finish
Us belt sander lovers are definitely in the minority. I build full-time and I am constantly reaching for it to level stuff and flat and stuff and it works so good once you learn how to use it.
@@michaelsummer7082 yeah and another major advantage to belt sanders is it's easy to use a cleaning stick and make the belt just like brand new and just a couple seconds flat.
Up pvp.p
Newish woodworker here and I've never understood why belt sanders aren't the go to for sanding. Just makes more sense. No pigtails and cover way more in a shorter amount of time. Weird
My 15-20 year old Makita finally gave up the ghost. After looking at several reviews I bought the Bosch ROS20VSC from Lowes. Couldnt be more pleased. Its a dust dust collector that doubles as a sander. Less dust in the air or on the workpiece than any other sander Ive ever used. Price is right too.
You definitely earned a subscriber in me!Im always willing to learn from anyone.Im one of very few people that think that you never stop learning your whole life.
I own that little black and decker sander and love it. I’ve had it for maybe 10 years and it’s still going strong.
Me too. it's my only B&D tool and it works great.
That featherboard is fantastic.
I've been using a 1/4 sheet sander since I learned about woodworking as a 4-H member 40+ years ago. I always do my final sanding by hand. I never knew about the circles, I was just taught that way. I'm sure glad Dad taught me well.😊
In recent years, I have moved to almost exclusively using sanding mesh rather than sandpaper. Dust collection works much better and the mesh is much less likely to clog. I find the mesh has a much longer life, particularly because it can be easily cleaned and reused, while cleaning paper increases wear and limits sandpaper life. [This may vary between brands, so consider manufacturer quality!] Mesh can be purchased in 4 1/4" rolls, which is very cost effective for palm (i.e. finish) sanders, or in disks. A wide range of grits is available. I guess what I most like is that rough sanding goes quicker with mesh because it takes much longer to clog and is quick and easy to clear. That combined with the long life and reusability makes mesh both time saving and cost effective.
The heavy duty Bosch random orbital sander with the turbo direct drive mode has changed my life. Worth the high cost. Way better than any belt sander I've had, and great in random mode as a finish sander.
I’ve worked with both types of sanders, including a small 1inch triangular orbital sander. I’m a painter and I also do casework. Currently we are sanding off clear coat and stain from cabinets and restaining and clear coating. I’ve learned to really like orbital sanders but it does take more time to learn the right technique, it is sometimes necessary since we have to work around hinges, to get corners and whatnot as opposed to a round sander.
Back in the 80's there was really only one 1/4 sheet sander available that I ever saw, and it was made by Makita. I don't know about the tiny circular marks on the workpiece, but I can tell you it did a heck of a job vibrating your hand. Probably better at vibrating your hand than sanding anything. I think this might have been the only tool I threw away.
Replaced it with what I think might have been the first powered (as opposed to air driven) random orbit (or dual action, we called it) sander by Porter Cable. What a joy, what a difference.
I wish I had all those hours I wasted giving myself nerve damage in the hand with that Makita sander back now.
Porter Cable 330 Speed-Bloc was a 1/4 sheet orbital that was definitely around back then.
The Makita's were harsher but they did their job well enough.
@@jimurrata6785 That was not my experience. Your mileage obviously varied.
Nothing felt better throwing all of those old noise making sanders in the garbage for me once I discovered festool and adjustable suction dust collection. Best work investment I ever made.
Never looked back or cried about the price. Just the anti static features made it worth it
OMG! I couldn't figure out where those sqiggly lines were coming from and now I know. Just ordered a 5" ROS and will of course be going over the work to fix it. Thank you thank you thank you!
From a beginners POV, this was extremely informative. Thank you.
As a small side note to the "all power sanders cut in all directions" part, I have ran across some old 1/2 sheet sanders that oscillate back and forth and not in the orbit style and they do only cut back and forth as they will walk themselves off the table which lead to the sander races with these (not the belt sanders) that bored wood workers would do. If you got the right sandpaper and figured out how it was made then the grains would have a bit more grip in one direction than the other so it could walk. They could only be used with the grain and you never wanted to use heavy grit sand paper with them, the roughest would be 100 grit maybe 80. You can get pretty smooth finishes with them and pretty consistently too. They were very prone to building up dust under them pretty quickly and would burn the wood so doing long sweeps with it helped stop that. That's why they never really got anywhere commercially.
Love that you stress technique, technique, technique. ANY tool used improperly or with poor technique is not only going to produce poor results but could also be dangerous. Your pointing this out is super valuable to those who pay attention.
I wish he would have said which sander did he thought was better and I have both Sanders and I was thinking about taking the orbital back for a refund because I don't think I'll need it because I had some dark spots and my belt sander was able to remove
thank you for the tutorial tips. I'm about to use a palm sander for the 1st time on a small wood project. You taught me how to watch out for the small pieces of debris under the sanding paper that would cause problems on the finished wood.
I have used all types of mechanical sanders and all fail to leave a clear surface finish. Their only value is to remove varying depths of wood prior to the professional surface created by using scrapers correctly. The look they leave is breathtaking. A good series of tutorials is how to develop these skills and equipment could prove invaluable. This is how the wonderful finishes of antiques were consistency achieved. Have fun.
I'm smack in the middle of learning this lesson now. I've got both sanders, and no matter how hard I try, there are in consistencies all over the wood (and grooves). Part of the reason is that the wood isn't level, and you can't "feel"what you're doing. Thankfully isn't not a piece of furniture, it's a pre-fabbed workbench top, that I'm just trying to seal. But, if the sanding isn't good, the bad spots sticks out. It's not horrible, but *I* see it, and it drives me nuts. So, I'm about to leave "well-enough" alone, given the context, but its been a BIG learning experience as to what these sanders *arn't* capable of. I almost bought a belt sander, but I figured it would give me the same results as the others, just much quicker. Which in this case would be a good thing....but, that's not enough of a priority to drop $260 for just the tool.
I just bought the BOW feather board because of your recommendation. 👍🏼
Laser cut multi-layered art pieces, mostly out of birch plywood is my primary use of sanders. A 1/4 sheet sander has had the best results over the random orbital. With all of the random shaped holes in the material, using a round random orbital can have too much momentum and may break thin features between the holes and destroy a part in seconds. I recently got a cordless 1/4 sheet with adjustable speed and regret not getting it sooner. The fine control in delicate areas has been a game changer for removing the burn marks around features.
What a great presentation. Congratulations for the clarity and clean style.
I got the Bow Featherboard because of your recommendation. I love it. It's the best one I've used by far. Also the knobs are some of my favorite ones from any product. 😊
I bought a Dewalt 1/4 sheet sander twenty or so years ago and still use it today. If it had a hook and loop pad to hold the paper on I would use it a lot more because the fiddly little clamps that secure the paper are so hard to manipulate. Great video James, thanks.
You can buy sheets of adhesive-backed hook & loop material to make that switch.
I had that trouble with every 1/4 sheet sander, too. I also had a real problem with the paper tearing. Their dust collection sucks and the dust causes the sandpaper to fail fast. I eventually threw them all out.
When I bought my first Festool sander I was in love. It almost made sanding fun.
yea, same experience with the DeWalt, that thing is a workhorse! If a project allows, I stack a couple of sheets in the sander and just tear off the used layers when they wear, are uncloggable or tear on their own. The battery Ridgid 1/4 has a better paper hold-down but is sorta a meh tool.
I just built a really nice fireplace surround from floor to ceiling for a customer. They ordered a mantle off of the internet, just a cheap hollow one with a French cleat that was horrible,The swirl marks were everywhere!!!! Like worst I’ve ever seen ,yea and it was stained already. Spent more time fixing it than what they originally paid . I’m not going to do the best work I can on a beautiful focal piece in a great room with a mantle that looks like a 5 year old built it . Anyway love the videos makes my day when you post !
in our shop we use the 1/4 sheet (we call it a pad sander) for round shapes because it won't leave facets or flat spots like the random orbit will because it has a spongy pad that will form to the shape of the wood, we use the random orbit on flat surfaces and concave surfaces using the round shape of the random orbit at an angle to match the concave shape. hand sand for final finish
I somehow ended up with 2 5" random orbital sanders, and a third one was bundled with another tool. I was saving it to either sell or give away, until a gnarly recycled wood project caused me to destroy the pads on the other two. You enlightened me as to how to avoid that problem, but I broke out the third one to finish the project, so now have three. I am now experimenting with keeping all three with course, medium, and fine discs ready to rock. As for dust collection, all three have different sized ports, and of course none fit any hoses that I have available. Instead I use the small dust bags that came with them, and when the project has the finish drying on it, I take the three out on the porch and blow them all clean with compressed air. So far this seems to be a practical solution. Thanks for your informative videos. Project next is your router plane, mine made from laminated ash, using the Veritas blades you mentioned. In a long life, this is the most fun I have ever had with all my clothes on!
I have a sheet sander but I thought it moved only back and forth and that I needed a random orbit sander to sand properly. Thanks for the information, ill start to actually use the sheet sander instead of handsanding everything!
As you talked about sanding with the grain, I kept thinking of all the times Gibbs (NCIS) would tell people in his basement (and occasionally, elsewhere) to sand with the grain. With all the boats he made over 20 years, he probably went through quite a bit of sandpaper. And, as he noted in the first episode, the only power items in the basement were the single light bulb and the idiot box. I am gonna subscribe because while I am not a woodworker it doesn't hurt to learn new stuff. Thanks.
As a UK decorator for over 40 years I have used all types and sizes of sanders from the small triangle sanders up to walk behind floor sanders. I bought a Dewalt cordless random orbit sander as that was the only cordless sander they made, which I was quite happy with apart from 2 things, running cost and not being able to get into corners or up against carpet. Then they released the cordless 1/4 sheet sander, so I bought one from Amazon USA as it was much cheaper. What a difference, I wish that they had brung it out first then I wouldn't have the 2 sanders. The differences are that the RO does a better job it is about 3 times the cost to use. The dust extraction even with a vacuum hooked up is not as good with the 1/4 sheet. Having said that the 1/4 sheet sander is my go to tool. I use the rolls of sandpaper which work out fairly economical.
I would recommend the RO for workshop use and the 1/4 for on the job use. The 1/4 sheet is more versatile so it;s a winner for me. On a footnote for workshop use stick to corded tools to save money and to keep consistant power.
Great informative videos.
many moons ago when I was a young lad, I was working as a Mechanic for a cabinet shop, whenever I had all the vehicles running, he didn't want be to go somewhere else, so he had me sanding cabinet faces, all we had was the 1/4 sheet sanders, I think it was a very fine grit of 400 or more, than years later when I started playing with wood more then metal one of the first things I picked up was a 1/4 sheet sander, I used it for some time, before someone gave me a old orbiting sander, which I used for 4 years or so before buying a brand new one, which is old now, but all 3 still run when needed, Must admit I'm became a fan of the 20v dw210 that I use almost daily.
Good lord you couldn’t have timed this video better !! ❤️👏👏
I have 5 different sanders for different detailing. I really like my quarter sheet sander for like you said I can use different grits of paper but I hand sand thanks to your teaching, and love my final results . Thanks for your videos you are a great teacher.❤❤❤❤
I have a belt sander and a quarter sheet sander (I've always called it a "palm sander") and the customization of grits by using regular sandpaper sheets is unmatched utility for me. I have all of my agressiveness/fineness bases covered between the belt and palm sanders. My 2 cents is that it's better to dwell a bit longer in one spot with a finer grit as opposed to using a coarser grit for less time and trying to bail out of any deep scratches later on
Concise, excellent tutorial. Also, I just installed the BOW fence, feather boards and support blocks onto a DeWalt join site table saw, and another set of BOW feather boards to replace the manufacturer’s OEM version on the Bosch RA1181 router table. Haven’t used yet but it’s nice having the same anti-kickback safety system on both power tools.
Thanks for the tutorial and the video. I used to use orbital sanders, but found I didn't have the patience to sand in my early years.. leaving many projects with the so-so finish you show. When I got my first random orbital sander, I never looked back. VERY efficient, compressed my sanding time by more than half, didn't have to go through the aggravation of a fiddly sandpaper replacement that the sheet sanders tend to have (for me, anyway), and waayyyy better results. OMIGOSH, yes, the velcro backed disks are very expensive.. but I'll gladly pay the price.. just to cut the shaping and finishing time down!
Great video, very helpful for those who are not familiar with the differences. As far as random orbital sanders go l finally bought a Festool version. Best thing l did, it works well and continues to do so. I found the off shelf domestic brands all had the same issue, they just plain wear out and fail within eight to ten months. Totally agree that the final sanding should be by hand, with the grain. It makes such a great difference to the final finish.
❤ Stumpynubs
I particularly enjoy the fact that there isn’t a backwards baseball cap in sight… 👍
I generally use a finishing sander, and borrow a random orbital when possible 😀
As james said, I always finish with hand sanding at the end. Recently did the Dining table with the finishing Sander, and doubt you will find a single squiggle from the sander. But it takes a certain amount of diligence.
Metabo 1/3 sheet sander I bought in 1986.
2200 revolutions per minute..try to buy one now!
The best tool I ever bought. All the antique dealers told me to buy one. I believe Black and Decker bought them out so I'm not recommending it.
Thanks for the great information. I've used a 1/4 sheet sander for years. I use a good quality 3M paper and work through the grits to get a progressively fine finish. There is not substitute for hand sanding for a super smooth finish.
I always use a half-sheet sander so that I can create a flat surface instead of a hollowed out one. Using a quarter-sheet sander it's far too easy to dig a hole, and ruin the surface.
Sadly, in my home town, the only 1/2 sheet sanders available start as a positively insane $450. I think I paid $90 for my Ryobi.
Thanks, hardware stores - you are really awesome.
I was wedded to my Ryobi 1/4-sheet sander for years, then it and the next two had mechanical problems, and I went 5" ROS, which works fine (and coarse, and medium). Since then, with Cubitron disks, cost isn't a factor: I'm still using the initial (sample pack) disks from two years ago [the backing wore to the point it wouldn't stay on the hook/loop connection, but it still serves well on hand sanding blocks]. I may never buy a piece of sandpaper again.
As a retired kitchen remodeler, I always used a quarter sheet sander on wood. Would start with 100 grit & go to 200 grit. After that, I would block-hand sand to about 320 grit.
Good comment about HAND-sanding the final stroke. I don’t have a random orb sander. Not sure I’ll ever buy one. I’ve used my Dewalt palm sander extensively and I love it. One problem tho… Sanding against raised edges will wear on the rubber pad, between the platen and paper. Eventually, 1/4-sheet paper becomes too long and the paper installs loose, so I end up cutting a small strip off, which results in a 24/100ths-sheet paper… then 23/100-sheet… 22/100 sheet and so on. Eventually, the pad gets worn down to the point where continued sanding will begin to wear out the platen. Granted, the platen is easy to replace, but try not to get that far.
The Oak step stool I made in shop class was sanded using a 1/2 sheet sander...it was all there was. Thanks for the video.
I’ve made a few boxes in the last 27 years.
The sequence of doing the total build is important, and when you do the sanding between steps! Sanding at the right time, as you go, is important, too.
I rarely make one box at a time, usually 3 to 8 boxes at a time. It is more efficient doing all the boxes at each step, as you go.
THE STEPS I USE:
1. Cutting of all the pieces, minimizing set ups.
2. Inside sanding of all the piece,
3. Assembly of each box, one at a time until all are assembled.
4. Finish sanding the outside of each box, one at a time.
5. Parting off the lids of each box, then plane or sanding the cut parted edges for perfect fit.
6. Adding hardwares, a box at a time.
7. The last act is then final finish sanding with sanding blocks as required ready for finish coats!
Then applying finish coats of finish. I like Tung oil used inside and out, usually
All boxes done and finished at the same time.
SANDING EQUIPMENT:
A. Sanding Blocks and Pad sanders, Sand paper, cut in 4 pieces (two different ways) for pad sanders and block hand sanders.
A. two or more Block sanders, one for each of the various grits of sand paper to be used one for each grit. hand sanding blocks or more 1 for each 120, 180, 220 and 380.
Two pad sanders for 120 and 220 grit.
One random orbital sanders for 100 grit.
I run thru the grits on each piece at a time until done, then all of them done.
After I have the 6 pieces/box (times the number of boxes to build) cut, and everything is to size, I finish the sand the insides, then after assembled I finish sand the outside of the box. Part the lid off the box, then plane and or sand the cut edges flush.
Quarter sheet sanders will also vibrate in such a way that if you use them for a while, your hand will itch like crazy due to increased blood flow in your operative hand. Never such a problem with my random orbital sander.
Is that just your 1/4 sheet sheet sander or do they all have that affect?
@@tonysheerness2427 1/4 sheet sander only
If your hands 'tingle' with ANY vibrating tool, that is actually a sign of nerve damage and you should be wearing 'anti-vibration' gloves with padded palms and fingers. Continued use will eventually lead to permanent nerve damage - 'Dead Finger' and 'White Finger' in old work safety documents talking about hand held pneumatic tools like scaling guns, grinders and jack hammers - you can even get it riding push bikes on rough roads (one source of anti vibration gloves is a good specialist bike shop, who may be cheaper than 'industrial' suppliers who expect you to write off their high prices via your tax)
I found that with a Craftsman 1/4 sheet sander. Got rid of it and went to a Dewalt and did not have the problem with it.
Great rundown and proof positive there are situations that work great for both sanders. Also I can vouch for the Bow featherboards, I bought one and it is absolutely as advertised. Kickback is a real thing and this device will legit lower your chances of experiencing it dramatically.
It’s pretty easy to make your own sanding blocks. I have four 5” orbital sanders. I don’t like to change papers. So I change sanders. But when I wear out the paper disc of what ever grit. It goes into a box. Each box is labeled for each grit and the blocks that I make sit right on top. So when you blow out the shop the paper stays put.The blocks I make are 5” long usually 2” tall and have cork board on the bottom. A nice piece of oak works well. Just use contact cement for the cork board. Have a good one 😊
Just a thought, don't know if you've done one but I'd love to see a full blown video from you going over "Japanese pull saws", flush cut saws and coping saws.
The differences between them and some recommendations of really good ones that won't break the bank
ruclips.net/video/PZdoLx72faM/видео.html
I worked in a shop that made custom office furniture in the early 80s. They hadn’t invented the random orbit sander yet lots of hand sanding!
I use both in my shop all the time, I almost exclusively use a “finishing” sander on plastics (I do a lot of 3d printing) because orbital sanders will destroy plastics a lot of the time
Im shopping for a sander for both wood and 3d printing. I think I might try to get a corded bosch random orbital for wood and a cordless finishing sander for my 3d prints
@@coreyoneill6912 I’d honestly say the “corded vs cordless” debate is kinda floppy now a days, I have a corded 3m sander that has been collecting dust for years now and I use exclusively cordless sanders, I get about 1-2 hours of work out of a 4 amp battery on my dewalt sanders if you are a pro using it ALL day then sure but for the average guy 2 batteries will get you around 2-3 hours of straight work
Personally I’d just grab a combo kit from your preferred power tool brand, on Black Friday you will likely be able to get both sanders, an extra charger, and a few large batteries for less than you will pay for one of them any other time.
Contrary to convention, I use the RO sander for the more aggressive grits, and a belt sander for intermediate. The belt removes any cross grain scratches left by the RO, and makes the subsequent (and final) fine grit or two by hand pretty easy. Not mentioned in this video, but if I know Stumpy he has said it elsewhere, is to move through the grits in small jumps. Trying to erase scratches made by an 80 grit RO with a 150 grit belt or hand sander will take a LONG time.
Great info thank you!
Pretty funny, was literally thinking about this yesterday. I have been only been using 1/4 sander my whole life but have been seeing everyone using the rando sander. I get the pigtails, but have learned over the years to get far fewer and high-grit rub 'em out. I will always hand-sand, no matter what, at the end. Funny, I've been calling my sander an "oscillating sander" and thought the rando was the "true" 'orbital' sander. Great vid!
I use both types of sanders. On my 1/4 sheet sander, I learned to hard way to be very careful about the type of sandpaper I use. A major brand changed the formula for the backing to give it more grip. Unfortunately the high grip material became a heat activated glue on my sander’s foam platten and stuck fast to it. When I tried to remove the worn sandpaper, it tore off chunks of the platten. I posted a complaint about it on Lowe’s website and the sandpaper manufacturer contacted me and then paid to replace my sander part. That was very nice of them, but now I choose sandpaper without a grippy backing.
A TALE OF TWO SANDERS: At work we used quarter sheet De Walt sanders. They work great, but the large round top simply was not comfortable to use. They simply did NOT fit the hand! I bought a sander to use at home, and selected a Makita because the top was shape to provide a very comfortable hold. It was more comfortable right up until I turned it on. That thing vibrates so badly that after just a few minutes use my hand remains numb for about half an hour.
It does a good enough job sanding, but if inverted that little devil could be used as a jackhammer.
I use both at my sheet plastics fabrication job. For a pristine edge that you can see clearly through
use the random orbital , 180, followed by 360, followed by 400+ with the 1/4 sheet sander.
Once saw marks and the entire of all edges have a consistently smooth matt surface, then buff it with a generous amount of that clay like buffing compound. 👍 Good video, I've been wondering because I only use the random at home on wood, then hands sand with the grain after
I do like the 1/4s, tips are:
1) Don't puncture the paper on the finish run, sharp edges on the holes can bugger everything up,
2) You will need to wear paper in to begin with, the swirl pigtails are usually left by the prominent bits of grit. You dress a grinding stone, dress your paper, even on some scrap wood or other flat surface.
3) Buy good quality paper ( wet and dry I like) and use the clamps, change the paper regularly, it's cheaper so changes mean faster work.
Excellent explanation as always.
I haven’t used,(literally my Father’s) orbital sander for 30 years, no advantage and discs are so easy to change. But for a true craftsman finish, hand sand or scrape!
An important thing to consider when looking at a 1/4 sheet sander is how the paper is attached. I had an old black and decker that had a really good clamping design, it wore out and I purchased a Makita since I have a lot of Makita tools, the clamp system is a real pain. I am still looking for a better clamping system. Good program.
Some use a thicker paper, 3M weatherstripping contact cement, or 3M Feathering Disc Adhesive Type II #8051 for example.
I have all three types of sanders and generally use them as I need them for a project. As you stated, the orbital sander is much better on rounded edges than the random orbit sander is because the base doesn't spin. The other orbital sander has that tight point tip which is great for getting into corners such as the inside of a drawer. I had to learn a technique to keep those ugly pigtail swirls out of my projects and it does take longer due to having to move in just about every single direction on the project, but you can get great results if you are patient. Mind you, hand sanding is still generally required for even the "finish" sanders to get the project to the final finish you want. Overall, your shop isn't complete, unless you own all three types of sanders and learn how to use them.
I have numerous sanders. I use blue tape and write the grit on top of each sander so I can go from coarse to fine on a project. But on flat horizontal surfaces I really like a long board hand sander to get it flat with no grit circles, and if you have bungs offer screw heads very important see so they don't stand proud after you finish.
Having seen this video I went out and bought a rechargeable orbital sander. I already have a couple of belt sanders which don't produce the pigs' tails but they are heavy and have to be used within range of a power socket. Not for the first time, thanks for your advice.
Great information all through the video James, stay safe and keep up the good videos. Fred.
Well, there are reciprocating inline sanders like the one I use that takes a 2 x 18 inch sheet and does not cross the grain. Nicely done video!!!
Early in my woodworking days, I bought a 1/4 sheet sander for the very reason you described - economy of using standard sheets of sandpaper. That little sander seemed to cause me more work than it saved, I am sure in part to my inexperienced hand, but boy am I familiar with that dreaded swirl pattern. Long ago I got a random orbit sander, and have loved using it! You may think with so much re-work that 1/4 sheet sander caused me, I quit using it years ago... not true!! Interestingly, a green scrubbing pad will JUST fit in the clamps! I also have the absolute worst condition any woodworker has, which is to say my table saw is outside!! Under the car port, but still subject to whims of humidity. You may be surprised to find I fight rust a lot less than you might think, however, I do have to deal with rust on the table saw top on occasion. The 1/4 sheet sander, with a green scrubbing pad, with a rust cleaner, works quite well!!
I use a 1/4 sheet sander with a brown paper as a friction burnish on my wax finish. Have had great results!
I was given an old Milwaukee 1/4 sheet sander, and it's a monster. With 60 gtit, it grinds material off faster than a belt sander. Doesn't seem to be a way to turn it down. and it shales the table. My random orbital is used to fix the 'damage' the first one does. Since almost all my work is very rough=sawn live edge spruce (Alaska) it's very useful.
Excellent, well done Stumpy!
I use a lot of cheap menards tools (hobbyist woodworker) but upgrading my sanding tools and following your advice has helped me drastically. I'm spending more time enjoying the build of my projects instead of cursing at the finishing stage haha. I've always seen the 1/4 sheet sander as something painters use. Never thought about using it for weird spots or angles where I would need more control. Another helpful video!
Agreed. The swirls can be a sad issue. Early on, with my first cut-sheet sander, I was dismayed that the cross-grain scratches in pine took in the stain. Generally, the final sand must be strictly linear with the gain. Not worth the risk not to.
My thing about sanders and manufacturers is that particulates from sanding, both from the material and the abrasive stock, are airborne and can damage your lungs/airways. So why aren't all with some HEPA filtration bag or all have remote-on vacuum controls (e.g. Festool) ? Oh and nice haircut, Stumpy... looking professional! :)
I use both for a variety of reasons. I appreciate you covering the differences and sharing your insights and thoughts. Thank you!
The only time I used a 1/4 sheet sander successfully was when I screwed it to the bottom of an intricate poured plaster freeze mould and used it to degas the plaster before it cured. It worked beautifully! So I actually found a use for an essentially useless tool (In my opinion).
I use both types of sanders but for different purposes. I use the quarter-sheet sander because of the economics of sheet sandpaper and to sand small smaller pieces with curves, in corners, and over edges. I only seem to use the random orbital sander with finer grits on flat surfaces like table tops, shelves, and cabinet sides. It is a good practice to sand before assembly whenever possible, especially the insides of boxes.
Also ( hard to find now ) 'in line sanders'. I'm glad I still have one that is still going strong after many years.
Thanks Stubs, for the link to keeping my fingers on my hand, less than AU $100.00 for that small brain lapse and a lifetime of what if,, keep up the good work! Cheers Howie
Use to exclusively use the finish sander and hated it. Vibrated, swirl marks. Frustrating to use. I use exclusively a dewalt random orbit. No vibration whatsoever, incredible finish and frankly with a hepa vac - no dust so never go back to the finish sander (plus) changing sandpaper is so quick when switching between grits. Try that on the finish sander and enjoy the tedium of it all :) Great video as always.
retired furniture maker here. whilst i use a random for the coarser grits ie 80 and 120, i use the finish (1/3 sheet) sander for the final 180. maybe just habit but i find it easier to get a better final finish with this than a random. then followed by hand sanding with the grain. as i usually plane all finished pieces beforehand my sanding routine is pretty quick. with the two coarser grades. could just go to 180 to roughen up the surface for finish but prefer to go through the whole process. maybe the reason for the habit is we only had finish and belt sanders when i started and randoms came a long later.
I only use the orbital sanders. The only thing I've found that takes care, is to pay attention to your grits and don't skip grits now than one coarseness at a time. And just make sure to check your paper each time you stop. Those pig tails are mainly caused when your paper gets gummed up with wood, and possibly too much pressure causing heat and not allowing the dust to escape. I mainly use them as actual finishing sanding though, from 120 or 150, 220 and 320. Just watch your later and they're fine.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!!! We’re all better together!!
The model of sander is very important , while I have a bunch of sanders, each one has a place, the two that do 90% of my work are a Makita 3x24 belt sander and a little 1/4 sheet Dewalt. There is very good reason why the Makita is the industrial standard in cabinet shops, Balance and Durability. The quarter sheet was picked up on sale, it is a yellow version of the French designed Elue . I lucked out, it is great little sander. I use 120 grit belts almost exclusively . If I want to cut a bunch, I'll use a disc sander. Great for trimming doors, BTW. After the belt sander it's the quarter sheet. The quarter sheet gets 220 stearate coated. Then between varnish coats, 220 grit again. That little Elue/Dewalt is now a Porter Cable model. 120 and 220 grits only. A power tool can span grit sizes so you don't have to change.
My 5" Bocsh RO is great for applying wax and then polishing cars. It takes all the work out of it. It's worthwhile purchase just for that, alone. It does get the odd sanding job, I'm on my third plate in fact.
I've got a high end and quality lower end random orbit. I had a third, but a buddy needed it. I've got my Fein MultiTool and I, always, have at least three quarter sheet sanders. Every one of my sanders are worth their weight.
The ROS's are king when it comes to being able to sand without too much concern for shop clean up, producing a good surface, and for LONG lasting sanding media.
The quarter sheets ALWAYS get used inside my sanding station, which, though it has three sides, a back and a top, has flexible sides that allow me to do long pieces, but still force the air pulled in by the dust collector to be pulled from the front.
The quarter sheet sanders trump the ROS for, for example, walking sticks that start out as five foot long 1-1/2" square stock, which is, then, routered on all four sides using a 3/4" roundover bit.
Trying to do what the quarter sheet sanders can on, as mentioned in the video, radiused surfaces, is like trying to herd cats and deal with a wild mouse, in each others company.
The ROS isn't bad on radiused surfaces that run straight, but many of mine are curved, so the cat and mouse thing applies. Especially if I try to take advantage of what a vacuum does for the sanding processes.
Sadly, there are many out there who would try to convince others of both their expertise and the worthlessness of the quarter sheet sanders.
SIDE NOTE: If you can take advantage of a vacuum with your quarter sheet sander and it won't interfere with your ability to manipulate it over curves surfaces, their efficiency (e.g., use of sanding abrasive and better results) improves greatly, though they'd play hell competing with a ROS.
Novice woodworker here. I have had great success with a finish sander for most of my work. Right up until I was working with Acacia. I simply could not remove the pig tails with it. Acacia hates it so much I had to go all the way back to 80 grit and start again hand sanding my way with single direction strokes through 120 and 180 grit. Doesn't sound to bad til I say the project was a massive desktop. My shoulder still isn't happy every time I think about that.
I would be interested in your thoughts on linear sanders, like the Festool Duplex linear sander. It has a back and forth motion only, so works best with the grain direction. It also allows excellent sanding of V grooves etc, which is what i bought it for, but it has become my go-to sander for most things now.
A ROS is a great tool, but for people like myself with hand grip issues, holding a palm sander can be tiring. Fortunately, I found that Makita offers a model that can be used as a palm sander but also has a regular grip and outrigger knob. I really like the BO5041K that I bought about a decade ago.
Great video. At least one aspect to deciding which one, is what you are sanding. I tend to need a sander to smooth rough edges, or beveling joined pieces in decks and railings. The 1/4 sander is handier/better for this and I rarely pull the orbital out.
I have two RO sanders. A 5mm orbit 6 inch mains machine for the lions share and a 5 inch battery for mobile and finishing work. Fighting the urge to get a mouse sander but can see it in my future. Also use a foam mouse and UFO that take the 5 inch discs. Covers most eventualities.