BELT SANDER BAN - Why? Where? ...and what to use instead.
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
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▼ READ THIS CAREFULLY: ▼
Click here ( shop.isotunes.com/stumpy-20 ) to Get 20% off these ISOtunes models:
- Link Aware
- Air Defender
- Link 2.0
- Pro 2.0
*OR select ANY model they sell and get 50% off a SECOND set when you put both in your cart!*
★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★
ISOtunes is a small, family company in Indiana that makes Bluetooth hearing protection for the shop, yard and everywhere else. (Support a small business and save 10% when you use this link, or the discount code: STUMPY) shop.isotunes.com/stumpy
#ISOtunes #ISOtunesSport @isotunes @isotunessport
*My Table Saw and Bandsaw are AWSOME! Check them out at Harvey Woodworking Machinery:* www.harveywoodworking.com/
*My hand tool collection includes premium tools from Bridge City Tool Works:* bridgecitytools.com/
*Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!*
(If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission)
*Some other useful links:*
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★SOME OF MY FAVORITE INEXPENSIVE TOOLS★
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-BOW Featherboards: amzn.to/430ldhv
-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7
-Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak
-Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
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When I used the link for isotunes, it gave me a 404 not found on the page that popped up. I clicked the top “click here”
@@liquidrockaquatics3900 It works when I click it. Maybe try again.
@@StumpyNubs crazy. It worked the second time. I’ve been using a set of Walker quad BT when I’ve been in the shop and mowing, but I noticed when I turn my head, they break away from my ear just a little bit. I thought I might isotunes. My neighbors are both older and they are both going to give hearing protection a shot while mowing now as they have seen me doing it and one of them likes listening to podcasts. Good habits CAN catch on
interesting tip but dont see how would help on end grain still better off with belt sander for that?
@@scottmaclean1455 I am not sure how much end grain you are talking about. But sure, I would want to avoid planing a lot of it. If I was to make some end grain cutting boards, for example, I would set up a router jig for flattening them.
I used to have the same opinion about Belt Sanders, making the same mistake by holding the Belt Sander on the same spot and digging into the timber. I watched a friend of mine who is a panel beater, probably known as an Auto Body repair man in the US, laminate a bench top from strips of timber and mounted it on the cabinet base. He levelled the top using a Belt Sander guiding the tool diagonally in two directions across the benchtop and finishing with an orbital sander. I ran my hand over the finished bench top, level perfect. It's not the tool, it's the expertise of the person that makes the difference.
You actually have the nerve to say that stumpy nubs isn't an expert on belt sanders... No doubt he has a much more precise definition of perfectly level than you.
He wasn't simply saying "belt sanders don't work" he was also saying they're super dusty, loud, and need sandpaper replacement.
Exactly! The builder of million dollar homes, who taught me most of what I know about wood, constantly repeated that correct USE is 90% of a tool’s value.
100% I like this guy but he's talking nonsense on this one
Sure, you can git gud and use a belt sander on furniture making, but for most fine wood working projects it is an unnecessary hassle and project ruining risk. Obviously if you're doing large pieces that almost go from furniture making to carpentry, things are different and not what the video is talking about. There is a reason he is showing and talking about things like panels, not a slab tabletop.
@@louisvictor3473 Except he doesn’t differentiate. I would not take issue if he specifically discussed HIS shop and his type of production. But he says YOUR shop too, having no idea who’s out here watching. So if your shop makes slab tabletops, is that little gouge plane really going to replace a belt sander? If I make a basic work bench, a belt sander is far and away the best tool for quickly dressing plywood edges or softening sharp corners.
Sounds good for the video, but having made a career as a carpenter I can tell you a belt sander is invaluable.
Same. His idea will work in some situations, but others there’s no substitute for a belt sander.
I agree with you. I wouldn’t want the plane for scribing laminate countertops to walls. Block plane at most for installing red cedar shakes and weaving corners but even there you could use a trim router. Belt sander for the win.
Yup I belt sander is definitely an important tool in finish carpentry
Seriously dude, no belt sanders? Goodluck shaping keel with a planer..
Invaluable is right. This video is woodworking youtube in a nutshell.
If you look at all these types of videos in aggregate it makes you wonder if they aren't all in on some nefarious conspiracy to throw everyone else off their game. Don't use a belt sander, be extremely afraid of the tablesaw at all times, buy only extremely expensive tools, use only the most elaborate jig possible, cover everything with epoxy, and on and on. All things I'd tell someone if I wanted them to fail at it ;~)
I’m a retired Garbageman. Over the years I’ve collected Boxes of old Bench Planes.
And I’m finally up to the point in retirement that I’m restoring them.
VERY Gratifying to take ol’ Rusty and transform it back into the fine tool it was intended to be.
ESPECIALLY when it yields that first ribbon of Wood. Knowing it was destined for a recycler or worse the Landfill.
Of course now I have a Till to build. Cheers. Love the Videos.
I'm a bit jealous. Enjoy.
Very jealous! I've had my eyes peeled the last year and haven't found a single plane to be restored around me. I'd really love to give that a try before getting one of the several hundred dollar ones
@@lint2023 Yeah, us Garbagemen are the envy of the World……On the upside I worked in Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks all summer.
I got paid in Sunrises largely. Cheers
@@MarcusRefusius I don't envy you but I do respect the heck out of you. Thanks for doing it.
Make some plane restoration videos!
Belt Sanders are extremely helpful for a whole house of tasks
They can pry mine away from my cold dead hands
Another belt sander tragedy?
I use a belt sander on occasion, but it is usually clamped in a vise to make it stationary
Same. I clamp mine outside in my jawhorse. No cleanup needed there. Most recent use was to quickly remove poly finish from oak cabinet doors that I'd broken down into flat stock for picture frames. I could have used a jointer or planer but didn't want to do that to my blades.
@@RobMoreland : ) - great for profiling and beveling an old plane iron, ha ha...
I use my belt sander all the time. I grew up using one before there ever was an orbital sander.
I absolutely love belt sanders, I can plane and have a decent orbital sander.
Some times you’ve just got to take a large amount of wood off quickly without using a plane. But I don’t use plywood or manmade woods so maybe I find them more useful.
They may not be the best tool for the woodshop but they sure come in handy when remodelling old homes with wood floors. They are also great for leveling subflooring. A word of warning; Don't purchase a bunch of belts for your inventory. The glue/tape will degrade and you'll end up with lots of straight 6" strips of sandpaper.
Great comment! Try applying 2" Tuck Tape over the glue joint when the old belt is still"new".😃 (The back side, yes😅)
Nothing beats a good scrub plane. Just a joy to work with. Quiet and doesn't leave a mess. And you can use any plane you have, no matter how messed up. I use an old Soviet beater plane without any built in adjustments (no lateral nor depth adjuster) and a chipped mouth and it works marvelously. I rarely even sharpen it. I'm gonna dedicate my other planes for rough work with smaller camber.
it's kinda hilarious that you used a belt sander to make a radius on the little piece of wood. (albeit, a sideways one that's mounted like a bench tool)
You thought I was talking about stationary sanders that use a belt and not handheld belt sanders, which I held up for the camera to show what I was talking about?
Haha, I was going to say the same thing. I thought it was funny. I get the point I just wanted to give Stumpy a hard time, lol.
I agree it was irrelevant, but in the split second moment, it felt like irony, and it gave me a chuckle too :)
(I doubt any of us thought it detracted from your point. It was just funny.)
My 4 x 36 stationary belt sander has been one of the most used tools in my shop.
"I will yank the cord and throw both it and you out the back door..."
Joke's on you, Stumpy: my belt sander is cordless!
A lot of amateur woodworkers just don’t have the life expectancy to become talented carpenters, they just want to make stuff using wood. Speaking for myself I will use electric tools if they give me more accurate and reliable results over hand tools. However I still use hand tools.
Same. I'm slowly learning the hand tools, but I'm more interested in having a great finished product than I am in the process of making it. I like knowing how to use the hand tools (that I do know), but if a power tool gives me an equally good result, or even good enough, I'll go for that.
I build fine furniture and really just don’t see a huge need for hand planes. Block planes are somewhat useful, but not necessary. But hey, I’d never buy a computer in favor of building one, so we’re all narcissists in our own way :)
It is the caulk and paint that makes you the carpenter you ain't!
Use both. It is easier and safer to use hand tools on rough lumber.
In the late 1950s my dad built his own table, saw with a motor and spindle and worm gear in crank he repurposed from something else. The top was hard oak tongue, and groove flooring.
I grew up using that and it worked perfectly.
That’s how I was taught we made our own machinery with repurposed motors from other things.
Grinder , bandsaw, etc. etc. powered from repurposed motors.
I guess we had a lot of stuff laying around in the backstreet of Detroit and those days
Wonderful video James. I loved it. You are so correct!
Years ago I purchase a #5 Stanley plane for $2.50 at a garage sale.
I sharpened the blade with a camber and used it to flatten boards. It works beautifully.
Later I purchased a new replacement blade and used that to give silky smooth results on those flattened boards.
I threw out my belt sander and never missed it.
My belt sander is permanently mounted in a jig for shaping purposes.
Started woodworking at 5 years of age in my father's cabinet shop...gained knowledge from many master joiners he employed...most important lesson learned is that it's not the tool that counts...it is more the person using it...
It's both, of course. A crappy tool will make you hate your work.
So true, I am 82 and when I was a young lad my grandfather would make me various toys out of wood. He made me a wagon, wheelbarrow, small trucks, etc. I don't believe he had a power tool to his name, and his craftsmanship was better than mine with all of my power tools. He was also a harness maker, an artist, and an all-around great guy.
I like my battery powered planer for those tasks, but this is definitely an interesting idea
I think James has another video about using an electric hand operator planer. Some years back.
I have a no 5 Stanley set up as James describes and I use it on wood, not MDF. It is very useful.
I wish James's video suggests which angle to set the grinder up to. I always grind at 25° and hone at 30° but in this application you might consider honing 35° to get there faster.
I agree with your video comments. After watching some videos several years ago, I learned how to properly tune and sharpen a plane. I started with my cheap Craftsman block plane and was amazed at the difference with proper tuning. I display it proudly on my tool board and reach for it often. My 3 grandsons listened to my comments about block planes and began one-by-one buying their own at yard sales and I refurbished each and re-gifted them back to my grandsons. They have all been won over. I have several #4's and #5's purchased from yard sales for a song and they are on my to-do list. I hope everyone believes your comments after trying to use a hand plane that is dull and not tuned well. That was me several years ago.
I’ve had a belt sander for about 15 years and used it on maybe five projects. It’s an awesome tool when you need it. It’s certainly very easy to destroy your work and commands some respect. This past winter I shaped the end of four oversized through tenons on a workbench I made and it was the best tool I had for the job. After a few test pieces I was comfortable with the process and extremely happy with how it turned out. Planing, chiseling, or filing a curved, beveled end grain on big Doug fir stretchers would have been a nightmare, it just loves to splinter.
We use our belt sander mainly to sharpen lawnmower blades and quickly blunt the edges on basic shop projects built out of junk lumber.
“Don’t test me like grandma did” 😂😂😂😂😂
That floored me
Show must go on! :)
Great line
So where is grandma now?
I remember my dads cabinet shop. He built a stand for the belt sander and used it for edges. When they were built my older brother sanded all the faces with the old skill locomotive 4”. We all have our preferences and it’s time for that cold one! Thank You
Awesome timing! I accidentally taught myself this a couple of days ago when a table glue up wasn't as flat as I had hoped. After hitting it with the belt sander and getting nowhere, I broke out my old Millers Falls #5 and had it flat in a few minutes. It'll be my method moving forward!
Stumpy is wrong on this one. A belt sander has its uses, just not on cabinetry.
Since this is a woodworking channel, speaking about banning it in my woodworking/cabinetry shop, I think you must know I am not speaking for every industry...
Not too dismiss Stumpy's reply. But I'm currently in the process of refinishing my porch and the belt sander is significantly faster than my random orbital sander and there are far too many screws potentially popping up in my opinion to use a jack plane.
Sorry but a plane can’t ‘cut’ it for me when I’m shaping MDF or chip board sheets for studio mixer desks.
I had to Bondo a hole in a door where a dog door used to be, and a power sander was invaluable for smoothing it out before painting. but that might not be woodworking...
There’s another alternative that wasn’t mentioned. A geared random orbital sander is nearly as aggressive as a belt sander, but usually has a regular random orbital mode as well. The Festool Rotex is probably the most popular option, but triton, Bosch and other companies make excellent versions that are nearly as inexpensive as a belt sander, but far more versatile
I had a belt sander and got rid of it when all I did was cabinets for all the same reasons. During our house renovation, there have been a few times the belt sander has saved the day. There’s a few tools I have in my shop that are not shop tools even though they could be used: belt sander, angle grinder and large hammer drill. Construction tools have their place but rarely is it with delicate projects.
I was on the verge of buying a thicknesser last week when I changed my mind and decided to revisit the use of a plane.It's about 50 years since I last used one successfully, so I dug out 2 old planes and they are sitting on the end of my workbench waiting to be sharpened.Thank you so much for your timely advice which will be put into practice later today. 😊
Just couple days ago needed to build a complete outdoor box. Used nothing else than a belt sander at the speeds 1, 3 and 9. One and same 80 grid belt on it.
Easily glued twisted boards together and sanded all effortlessly to flat. Made good smooth rounded edges, corners and all with the machine.
All the dowels easily cut to length and then sanded flat to surface with belt sander.
Then as well made the slatted walls, 4 mm thick ones cut from 38x20 mm with circular saw, and planed smooth and equal with belt sander.
Belt sanders are great for a normal woodworking, as long you remeber that what directions you should not move it, and what speed you need to use.
It is totally true that you can very easily ruin your surface with one single wrong direction movement or at wrong speed.
But when you see it in hands of experienced users, you know it is one of those tools that requires a mastery to really understand how to handle that beast.
And I am far from such level skills. But I would not give up my beltsanders.
And for rough wood removal with the hand planers... Those are joke sizes... Look at the wooden ones, that are even made to build large barrels or log houses walls. We are talking 1000 mm long ones with huge blades, that you can easily move to use ridiculous amount of wood and plane things at all kind forms, straight, curved, cornered etc. Those small hand planes are nothing for that purpose. Just get the proper tool for the task, and leave small hand planers like those for the small wood working to do finishing.
The belt sander is like a chainsaw. Most people see it just to cut trees and do some rough forresting etc.
But when you see a master using the chainsaw to do scuplting, to carve poles and everything like hot knife in the soft butter... It changes opinion what you can do with chainsaw.
And same is with beltsanders, most people have never seen what can be done with it, and use it wrong as they think it wrong.
Wow, that was a really dramatic setup in order to tell us about a scrub plane without ever calling it a scrub plane. All your points are valid though. This is way better than a belt sander. Might want to also mention that sometimes the mouth needs to be opened up a little with a file.
Not all cambered planes are properly called "scrub planes." Frankly, any plane iron can be sharpened that way. But traditionally, a scrub plane was short in length with a narrow sole, wide mouth and few frills. The Stanley #40 was their version of a "scrub plane". Their #5 (which I am holding in this video) was a "Jack plane" even though the irons were often sharpened to a radius. I suppose you can call any plane a "scrub" if that is what you use it for. (And many wood-bodied smoothing planes were turned into scrubs when the soles wore down and the mouths opened too far for fine work). But I would make a distinction, if only by name, between a cambered Jack and a Scrub.
More of a fore plane than a scrub plane. Proper scrub planes are narrow and have thick irons with much more aggressively curved cambers.
The woodworking equivalent of those recipes where the writer tells you their life story before telling you how to actually cook the food. It feels like trolling when it takes you 4 and a half minutes and an ad before you admit you’re just talking about scrub planes. Sorry, “cambered planes.”
All typical plane irons with the exception of jointers are cambered. Smoothing planes often receive a roughly 12” radius curve (easily seen are the scallops left behind by smoothers on antiques when viewed in raking light), jacks and fores (5 & 6) get about an 8” radius curve. Scrubs (40) can be as low as a 4” radius. In fact, all of those planes have to have a cambered iron because otherwise one corner of the iron will dig into the work and leave a track of torn up wood fibers.
@@markr5787 - Yes, any plane can have a cambered iron. But there is a difference between the camber and it's function that I am talking about in this video and the very, very slight radius put on the edge of a smoothing plane, which is not typically created by grinding the iron as shown, but by merely pressing down on the corners of the iron as you hone it on a flat stone.
I can't agree with you about this. You've identified a small minority of the applications of a belt sander, where a plane would be better. And those are applications where I wouldn't use one, because they're noisy, dusty and slow. But a plane won't do what they're really for. Like surfaces with multiple pieces of wood of different grain orientation, with gaps between them, which a plane would split on the edges. Or surfaces with materials that would blunt a plane, like inlaid brass, nails in a floor, or inlaid marble or other masonry or cement products, or wood surfaces with difficult grain or multiple knots. You even use a linisher, which is a belt sander, in shaping your piece of wood in this video. You're making a straw man argument against a tool that is the only one that will do what it's designed to do.
I agree. I try to avoid it, but there are a few applications for belt sanders. I just used one over the weekend to even out some applied wainscoting, which is the exact situation you described - multiple pieces of wood with differing grain orientations. The key is to use it sparingly and only so far as needed to bring the surfaces into a common plane (no pun intended). The wall was pretty out of whack, which created the misalignment. Of course, if I had been less lazy I would have used dowels or biscuits to align the pieces before attaching the assembly to the wall….😂
@@spenceralridge4958 I'm lazy too, bot those who are not never get the job done!
Agreed. It’s good for material removal in a variety of situations, especially when the piece is supposed to be non-flat.
My belt sander also came with clamping brackets for mounting upside down on the bench.
The other things belt sanders can do that a hand plane can’t is race. Your only limit is the length of your extension cord.
@@MarcosElMalo2 I had not heard of belt sander racing but have watched a couple of videos. Marvellous!
Where do you get those bench stones
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY! CORRECT! I took your video into the GARBABE CAN! I have used BELT SANDERS for at least 40+yrs and they have ALL done great work on flat boards or walls and was complamented many realtors in and of houses!
Perfect timing for me as I am just about to turn a Stanley 4 1/2 into a scrub plane, thanks James....So i used this method and it worked pretty well, especially when I used my belt sander to round off the end of my pattern for the camber.😂
If you want to remove 50 years of paint layers from a long piece of wood, belt sander is your friend.
Depends on the paint, most paints will clog belts up in no time flat. Try a heat gun and scraper, much quicker and a whole lot less mess.
No, you should use some type of solvent and a "wood" scraper.
You used to be able to find the really nice heavy duty husky ones at Home Depot. They don't sell them any more though.
Odds are one of those paint layers will be lead-based, and a dusty sander is the worst possible tool. Use an IR heater and a scraper, or a chemical stripper, and take all appropriate precautions.
@@joshwand
I grew up eating lead paint and playing with asbestos panels... made many play forts out of the asbestos siding and used the broken pieces for ammo to throw at your friends.
We're all over 60 now and in perfect health... I guess growing up in the most toxic environment known to man killed all our pathogens! 👍👍👍
Most pieces of such wood aren't worth my time. Especially if I'm on the job. Then it goes in the bin and customer pays for new. Less time and less $$
Totally agree with this, amateur woodworker, timber framer and hobby sawmiller. Ive tried everything to get my rough cut timbers/boards out of warp…power planers, timber planer, flattening jigs of all sorts. Quickest way I found is to use a roughing plane on the high spots till the reference face is flat enough to run true through a machine. A little candle wax or oil on the sole of the plane will make for less effort.
I needed this 11 hours ago when I ruined a project with...a belt sander. Thanks for the hope of how to avoid that mistake again.
"Don't test me like grandma did" 🤣🤣
As a hobbyist that has to find time when I can, I just don't have the time to learn to use and maintain hand planes. Maybe one day when I have more time.
Really the setup is all that takes time, maintaining isnt too bad. If you see em cheap at yard sales id say grab one for when you wanna mess with it.
Yeah I felt the same way when I was in my early 30s. I had my hands full with my fixer-upper house, and I needed to get things done quickly. Once I tamed the house, and started to do a little more hobby woodworking, I began to appreciate hand tools for the reduced dust & noise. And, I also started to appreciate the old craft ways. I was fortunate that my brother lived near a used tool shop and I could pick up great quality pre-war handtools affordably when I visited him. Don't get me wrong, I use power tools when and where I can - love my table saw and sanders and I recently upgraded to a good router. But there is simple joy in using handplanes and Japanese pull saws.
Scrub plane
My dad was a sign maker for most of my life until maybe 15 years ago when the economy shut him down. We would exclusively use a corded Makita belt sander to grind down the sharp edges after cutting down full sheets of mirror and glass. It worked amazing and I think that was the ONLY thing he ever used it for.
I love my belt sander! It cleans up reclaimed wood faster than anything. I also love my planes. Right tool, right job.
Worst shop accident I ever had. Took a belt sander, turned it upside down and clamped it in a wood vise. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. I can almost see Stumpy shaking his head as he reads this. Caught my palm between the sanding belt and the housing. Ouch! I still have the somewhat faded oblong scar to this day. That was 50 years ago and haven't had an accident since. (Knock on wood) I did learn a valuable lesson to always pay attention and use every tool for its intended purpose. I'm more of a random orbital sander type of guy.
- wiping shavings off a power plane has a worse result... (Instinctive for some hand-tool trained workers).
- I still get anxious every time Stumpy and similar "you tube presenters" - deliberately triggering every traditional hand tool using "expert" (drips under pressure) - places planes, irons active, flat on the bench (there is a well for that, Nubbs. lol..
My boss once got his finger stuck in a belt sander and he lost the last segment of his finger.
You deserve a ton more subscriptions, James. I always look forward to your videos. Keep them coming. I've learned a lot from you.
I have a belt sander, it is used in carpentry. I also have a dedicated scrub plane as Stumpy describes, except the the throat is wider than a regular plane. It is particularly useful with heavily figured wood as it is easy to control and for that and wide boards, replaces my thickness planer.
Did this with an old wooden yard sale plane. Works great. Thanks for all the great info!
I’m a professional installer. Interior trim and cabinets. I use various hand planes all the time. Properly sharpened and maintained, they are often faster, always quieter, and usually easier to use than a powered equivalent. Bonus: satisfying to use, and the cleanup is easier too.
A planed finish is so much sharper (no pun) vs sanded which are often duller finishes
I'd like to see how well a hand plane works installing a formica countertop, when you cope it to match a wall profile.
Sorry Stumpy, I have many sanders, including a belt sander.
This is a great idea though.
Why are you sorry?
@@StumpyNubs I'm British, we're always sorry.
@@StumpyNubs I'm also a brit and also own a belt sander....... I'm sorry
“Never apologize, it’s a sign of weakness.” John Wayne, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon.
@@pitsnipe5559 Sorry, I didn't see that movie 🙃
Excellent video James. I got rid of my belt sander for the reasons you state, almost 10 years ago. I use a fore plane with a seriously curved camber, followed by a jack plane. Process is so fast, you can accidentally go too far if you're not careful. Nicely done tip. Also, remind viewers that 'flat' and 'smooth' are two different things when prepping a board for say, using a planer to make both sides parallel. All you need is flat. Once the rough side is made parallel, you can make the original 'flat' side smooth with the planer too.
I was a Union Cabinetmaker in Chicago for 22 years. I couldn't agree more with 90% of your belt sander comments. One epiphany I had during my time in the shop. Take two Porter Cable belt sanders. One uses a 3" belt, and one uses a 4" belt. You WILL NOT believe the difference in controllibility and results. With reasonable attention, you'll have no more gouges, etc... I can't explain how 1" makes that much difference, but it does. I'm an absolute butcher with a 3" belt sander, but with a 4", it's so much more stable and controllable, I can do good work. The bad news is that 4" Porter Cable sanders are hard to find and considerably more expensive than the 3" model, but it is what it is. Please feel free to respond- maybe it's just a quirk in my technique, but this has definitely been my experience.
@5:29, "And that is just scratching the surface." Nice pun
Excellent pun. Just plane funny.
I have an old Stanley Handyman #5 which belonged to my late father. It found new life as a scrub plane. I have another old Stanley #5 which replaced Dad's plane as a jack plane. Best move ever.
Oh wow. I'm in the same situation. Found a stanley handyman in Dad's garage. I think I'll convert it
@@quadcamera I think you will be glad you did. I have a Ryobi belt sander. After a few "experiences" with it, it never gets used. It's just gathering dust.
@@marshallmurrell4583 agreed. My belt dagger never gets used unless I'm looking to go medieval on some kind of project. The thought of the mess it makes keeps me from using it much, now that I've put so much time and energy and money into dust collection
Great. Now I need an upgraded grinder😢
@@vtstrng Not to dissuade you from upgrading your grinder, but I used my Harbor Freight single speed 6" grinder and it worked fine. I have been wanting to upgrade to a CBN wheel, but I use the thing so infrequently I can't make myself spend the money.
Hey Stumpy, thanks! I've had a spare #5 plane for years during which time I've often thought of turning it into a scrub plane. Watching you do it right in front of my eyes was just what I needed to finally do it. I agree it's a great alternative to a belt sander.
I bought a belt sander 35+ years ago. I rarely used it, but I did have a need for it last year. I needed to smooth the rough side of some cedar planks for an outdoor project. It worked great. If I had a planer I’d have tried that first, but I don’t have one. I can’t imagine using the belt sander on furniture or cabinetry, but it has its uses.
If I had to agree with you, we would both be wrong.
Well, you don't have to agree with me, so...
Use mine almost everyday. It does things so quick and simple.
Early on got a belt sander & not knowing what I didn't know, screwed up a door. Still use it, but mostly upside down as a vertical sander. It's hard for me to get rid of tools.
Upside down clamped in a vise, it’s awful handy. Grandma’s are overrated too.
@@rossmcleod7983I literally don’t talk to mine, she’s bat shit crazy.
@@sanseijedi It's a very budget way to get a vertical/horizontal sander. It's all I've ever used my belt sander for.
Holy crap! Thank you for this video.
I got into woodworking a few years ago now and I inherited my grandfather's tools.
One of the hand planes I was given had this curve on the blade and I couldn't figure out why it was not straight across.
I thought it was super weird and was never able to ask him, but now I know why. 😊
I love your sense of humor! I've always wanted a belt sander, but I don't do enough woodworking to justify buying one. And the only plane I have is a little tiny one, 3.5" x 1.25". I just used it to shave off a high spot on some 1/2" plywood.
I can’t disagree. If I use my belt sander, it’s outside anymore. Even with a vacuum attached, it’s worse than any other tool for dust. But it works nicely with rough wood slabs. At this moment I’m watching the part starting with the wobbly workbench and I’ll say you have caught my interest.
When I was an apprentice I made a walnut and maple chess board. After glue up I had to flatten it, and I did, perfectly, with a....belt sander.
One pass against the grain, one pass diagonally, one pass diagonally the opposite way then finish with a pass with the grain then repeat, repeat, repeat.
Being older and wiser I now hook up my belt sander to a vacuum. It keeps things cleaner and the tool cooler. I have one of those Porter Cable armadillo sanders, they run hot, the vacuum keeps it cooler.
I do have one favorite use for a belt sander. I have the small Porter Cable one that looks like a little armadillo. I use it for cutting scribes when installing cabinets. It’s easily held with one hand and quickly cuts a scribe to a precise line.
But yes, years ago I bought a Stanley #6 and converted it to a scrub plane, and yes, with a razor sharp edge. it’s almost always the first plane I go to.
I did this on my Shelton jack plane many decades ago and made a jig to sharpen it to a fare-thee-well on Japanese water stones. I marveled at the damage co-workers did with belt sanders and power planes. Don't get me started...
would be halarious if someone bought him a belt sander for the holidays 🤣😂🤣
If you need to remove a bit of stock on a rough project, belt sanders fit the bill. Every tool has it's place. I agree that a belt sander is definitely not for fine work.
Agree
Au Contraire Mr. Nubs.
I use a belt sander to surface boards for fine furniture all the time. You just have to know how to use it.
First, I use a big one, 4X24, Porter Cable, 120 grit, because it has a large platen and really good dust collection. The secret is, that you never stop it on the board or change direction while it is touching the surface of the board. This means that you put it down and pick it up at each end of every stroke. It's much like painting the surface of the board with the sander. (Finish the surface by hand sanding with 150, 180, and 220 grit.) Now, it does take some strength because you're constantly picking up a heavy machine, but in sum total, electric power is removing a layer of wood rather than muscle power. The second advantage, and this is the big one, is that belt sanders don't "tear out". Take a beautiful plank of walnut or mahogany with wavy grain and its risky business to go at it with even the sharpest plane.
Years ago I bought an old beat up Power-Kraft #4 (?) and cambered the iron on it. When I want to remove material fast, it's my go to. Also, unlike many people, I prefer a smoothing plane and a card scraper over a powered sander for most things. Thanks for the tip.
One of the old timers I was apprenticing with over 30 years ago swore by cambered irons for hogging material. It comes in really handy especially when you work out of your van at peoples homes as I do .
Perfect timing. I have Cherry slabs I need to make much thinner. I got rid of my belt sander years ago because it was too difficult to use after a back injury. THIS I can do 👍🏼.
I used my belt sander to carve out the belly cut on a guitar body earlier today, with very little fine sanding afterwards. However I never use it to strip floors or table tops. Point is it can be used very effectively for specific tasks that require certain axis angle carves, whereby you can rev the motor to suit your sweeping arc to take more or less material. It's also usefull fixed in place like a small linisher to clean up edges. You can also use the soft edge of the belt as it pulls off centre to feather a contour etc.
Agree about the hand planes flattening ability, I also use my trusty spokeshave,( both flat and radius irons) for many wood shaping tasks when you need finer control. I use my belt-sander to sharpen my axes and lawn mower blades.
I have a jack plane I've had for the longest time, I didn't love the blade iron it came with (used and bent 2mm~), and got a nice 3mm blade. It needed a little bit of filing to fit it, and now I got the 3mm blade that works as regular and 2mm blade I've sharpened with a camber and it gets a bigger mouth, which is great for hogging out more wood.
I agree - I figured out early on that belt sanders blow. The only thing I've used mine for in the last 10 years is shaving down a couple of doors.
I was lucky and found a buyer for my Porter Cable belt sander when I sold off a lot of stuff before my big move. In all honesty, I hadn't used it for many years before I sold it for the exact reasons you stated. I have a plane that will fit the bill perfectly because my jointer is only 8 inches and it's time consuming to set up the CNC for something that could be knocked off with that plane. Thanks for a great video.
If you buy a quality belt sander with the adjustable skirt frame attachment you will never sand through a veneer skin. I have a six year old Festool BS-105 with a micro up/down depth adjustment knob on the frame. The sander is evenly raised or lowered inside the frame (riding on brush bristles) on the bottom of the frame suspending the sander over the wood surface to be sanded. This allows you to just kiss the high spots until the entire wood surface is even and flat. You have total control making it a joy to use especially with the vac hose attached. In the last few years other manufacturers have copied the Festool skirt attachment for their brand of belt sander.
I’m surprised that James didn’t suggest using a flat cabinet scraper with two handles along with the modified hand plane useage.
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The belt sander was my dad's favorite tool. I have so many of his projects that gave the tell tail flat spots or dips that the sander will leave. I keep it to remember him but also to either remove paint or some nasty work in home remodeling.
I have used a cambered plane to flatten my bench. Worked great. My 30 year old Craftsman belt sander did the rest.
Wow. A belt sander is an incredible tool. My belt sanders get so much use and I find most people just have absolutely no clue on how to use them properly because It does require skill.
I love my belt sander!
...I mounted it into a stand and made it into a nice bench sander, because I long ago realised there's no use for it in my hands. Between handplanes, cabinet scrapers, an orbital sander and an electric planer, I already have too many surfacing tools and all of them are better than a handheld belt sander.
I did this to a cheap No.4 about 20 years ago.
It's hard to get it maximally sharp.
But I use an old Dad tip to get the thing razor sharp: An old 20cm felt wheel on a stationary motor, filled with rouge.
The rouge wheel at high speed pushes enough metal around to get an amazing finish, and removes burrs nicely.
For shaping metal parts a Belt Sander is fabulous, and is great for stripping thick paint, massaging certain forms, and grinding down things that would take hours with other methods.
Ii love my belt sander.
I just finished belt sanding the hardwood floors of an entire room thru 3 grits. It worked excellent.
I am specifically talking about tasks that are done inside a woodworking shop. I am not saying no trade finds them useful.
I have never seen a cbn grinding wheel before. Thanks for the tip. Looks awesome in your video
I have used one to plane flat a exhaust manifold port on a truck engine that kept blowing the gasket on just one cylinder ! saved a lot of money did not have to completely remove it .
Working to build small wooden sailboats I found the belt sander was the best. I got rid of the belt sander when I stopped building boats :)
Started out using a belt sander for wood working before finally turning to a hand plane when I made my own kayak paddles and it turns out that I absolutely love using it. Most tools are a means to an end for me (a lot of hobby people do projects for the doing, I do them to get them done, which isn't to say I hate the process, but I would rarely make things if I didn't want things to my own designs), but I actually enjoy using a hand plane. This is a great suggestion, though, as it opens up the possibilities for use. I still use the belt sander, though, as I work with all kinds of material and they still have their place, if not nearly so often (and I use it outdoors).
🌲🍀🐾You're right again. I've even seen extremely exaggerated very rounded blades (make & sharpen them yourself) in "roughing" or "scrub" planes for hogging huge amounts of stock off, basically sizing the thickness of a board. Fast as can be (because no blade corners to catch & dig in) but leaves deep "gouges". Then, you switch your smoothing & scraping planes😎🐾🍀🌲.
My belt sander has custom convex platerns; belts for aluminum, belts for steel, gets into concave spaces with the roller, , etc. So 1) your point is a good one re the scrub plane. 2) thank you for dropping prices and making a whole lot more 2nd hand belt sanders available.
Oh man this is a touchy topic! I know woodworkers who won’t touch them, and other high end fine furniture makers who use them every day. I don’t use mine regularly but for coping a base cabinet or an end panel to the floor or a belt sander works very well for me. For sanding glue ups I rarely use mine but everyone is different. I think I may add a camber plane to my line up as well
Yes, a lot of folks are losing their minds over someone having a different opinion about belt sanders!
Ha! Ha! Ha! I use a belt sander and love it. When sculpting the top of a cabinet, attempting to get a weathered look. Also useful for removing old paint off of reclaimed deck lumber boards for a new outside project. The machines are an awesome friend when used in the correct project. I got two. A 4 inch Makita "meat eater" (if you are not careful) and a 3 inch Black and Decker for lighter stuff. I do all my sanding outside. I will take a look at my jack plane and consider it. Carry On Sir!
What you can camber, we've always called sweep. In historic preservation carpentry we keep a few #4's of varying sweep radius to surface new finish trim to match the 200yo stuff. Also, belt sanders still have their place, especially with plywood or really hairy grained stuff.
I make a custom cabinetry from 1989 and bels sander I use just for adjust the scribes during installation or sometimes in distressed furniture projects. That's it.
It has its uses in a honegamer's shop, I use my sander clamped to the workbench for lack of a stationary one for shaping and tweaking small parts, especially on end grain.
I swear by a 4x24 belt sander for many tasks when it comes to cabinet making and installs but I will agree this is a better option for some tasks you showed like flattening a large surface. For things like that I do usually rough with a plane first before finishing up with sanders but I've never seen this cambered plane blade before, I'll have to give that a try next time I'm using a plane for that purpose. I learned to use a belt sander in high school, then in my first job at a cabinet shop quickly found out I had no idea how to use them properly. Just like hand planes, a belt sander has it's own set of nuanced skills to use it well without destroying your work. I'm not much good with planes beyond roughing but thanks to my time in that shop I'm very handy at belt sanding.
I actually bought that HF plane a couple of months ago to see what it was and how it worked. I was surprised it already had a cambered iron, and I realized I could use it to improve the faces of some pallet wood I had. It works great, and I wasn't worried if I hit a nail... plus no sparks to end up in my dust collection bin.
I have an old wooden plane from my great grandfather with blade just like you describe. My father always called it a ‘“scrub” plane. Works just as you describe.
Scrub planes work on the same principal.
Yep I've destroyed some good work with a belt sander, never again. I never thought of this, though, and I thank you for the advice. I'm going to give this a go!
"I'm not here to change your mind about it". Also, points to the wall of hand planes! LOL! I am jealous!
I'm not sure I will start using a hand plane but I did stop using my belt sander years ago. I agree with you about that. Belt sanders are terrible. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂
Excellent video! Excellent sharpening technique. This is the basis of coarse medium fine woodworking. You use a jack plane with a cambered blade to get roughly flat and to rough thickness. From there you can go to machines to get flat, parallel, and square. Or you can continue to use another plane to do the work of machines. Finally the last step is to get to a fine finish with a smoothing plane, a random orbit sander, and/or a scraper.
The cambered plane is great. A belt sander is not a terrible tool for many of us out in the field, it has its place.
Thanks, James. I have an old plane I may try this with. 😊😊😊❤❤❤
You're right, I do have a belt sander and it has only been used on a few metal projects( sander clamped upside down) since I gouged the heck out of the first wood project I used it on! I have been wanting to grind a camber on one of my planes for quite some time and this video will cause me to actually do it! I have recently purchased a guide similar to the one you used in the video and have been putting consistent edges on several planes. Thanks for another great video.
Great video as always James I’m going to have to give this a try . Thanks for sharing