How to CC Cylinder Heads (Dodge, Jeep 4.7HO vs 08 4.7 which one is better)
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- In this video, I will compare the Dodge, Jeep, and Chrysler 4.7 HO cylinder head with the late model 08 cylinder head by using a Comp Cam CC Head Kit. I will show you the differences in cc's between the combustion chamber, intake, and exhaust ports.
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You are a fountain of wisdom on the Dodge 4.7L, Martin! I just picked up an '05 Dakota with the 4.7L V8, and am in need of your expertise on the design and function of the H.O. cylinder head compared to the non-H.O. heads, at least those pre-2008. My truck had a slight rough idle when I purchased it that I figured I could easily fix with a tune-up. However, the existing air filter, coils, plugs, and fuel injectors all checked out. I cleaned the PCV, throttle body, and Idle Air Control (IAC) valve as well, to no avail. Short and long-term fuel trims are between 0-5%, so I don't think I'm looking at a vacuum leak of any significance. No DTC's or Check Engine Lights of any kind.
A cylinder balance test was inconclusive at identifying any dead or missing cylinders. A dry compression test indicated somewhat low compression (125 PSI) on cylinder #4, with the rest of the cylinders all posting in the 145-155 PSI range. Thought cylinder #4 could be my problem, despite the lack of any misfire codes. Wet compression tests showed compression gains to 180-190 PSI in all cylinders, indicating somewhat worn piston rings across the board.
Leak-down test on #4 indicated air coming through the throttle body, pointing to the intake valve. Ran a bore scope down #4 cylinder and saw no evidence of piston or valve seat damage. Good cross-hatch on the walls still visible. Pulled the valve covers to check for a broken intake valve spring, thrown rocker, stuck lifter, or dropped valve seat, and found none of the above. While I had the valve covers off, I confirmed that the engine is in proper time. I pulled the intake manifold as well to get a direct visual on the intake valve itself, and it does not appear burnt or bent.
Then I noticed something odd. The passenger side cylinder head is stamped "H.O." in the front, whereas the driver side is not. The P/N's confirm that my PF head is an H.O. whereas the DF head is not. However, the cams installed in both cylinder heads are the non-H.O. version, without the extra ridge behind the cam gear. From prior research, I know the 4.7L H.O. cylinder heads differed from those on the standard 4.7L in several ways:
1) .030" higher intake cam lobes
2) Larger valve springs (7.30 coils vs. 6.69 standard, 4.77 wire diameter vs. 4.28 standard)
3) Larger exhaust valves
4) Redesigned combustion chambers coupled with domed pistons, resulting in a higher 9.7:1 compression ratio (9.0:1 standard)
My question to you is whether you think a 2005 4.7L with a H.O. head on one bank and a non-H.O. head on the other running the non-H.O. version of the cams and springs in both heads would result in a shaky idle and acceleration at anything under 2,500 RPM's. Specifically, could the differently-sized combustion chambers cause this problem?
My truck's build sheet and VECI label under the hood both indicate that it came with the standard 4.7L V8, and not the H.O. version. However, I do have the two knock sensors in the valley under the intake manifold which I thought only came on the H.O. engines, so I'm also confused as to which head is original and which was a replacement.
yeah, that engine most likely dropped a valve seat and they replace it with the HO cylinder head. Looks like you have replaced everything.
The valves are the same size on both heads, non-HO, and HO
All the 4.7 came with the knock sensor bosses.
Check the harmonic balancer to make sure it is in good condition.
@@martinbuilt - Thanks for the response! Good idea regarding the crankshaft damper, hadn't thought of that. I still think I'm having a problem with the intake valve on #4, though, given the leak down results. Will try cleaning the valve seat through the intake port. Currently performing a piston ring soak with MMO.
My engine not only has the bosses, but the actual sensors, and they are in fact wired up to the PCM wiring loom. I thought only H.O. engines had the sensors, hence my confusion.
Thanks Martin, this video is invaluable.
Excellent work Martin!! Hey, currently rebuilding my 08 4.7 so this video really gave me a heads up on the improvements over prior years. Fist go around with having the heads at the machine shop I had new springs and seals installed and wanted new guides and valve seats pressed in but he told me not to waste my money, so I passed. Weeks later I ordered all new valves, guides, and will be ordering seats here soon... Spent alot of money on this truck/engine this year but doing a full tear down and rebuild, I think this engine is worth it!! Would hate to forgo the seats and have one drop and wreck the investment!! Wonderful content though!! Thanks for all your hard work and dedication to this great engine!! The New rwvisions Chrysler made are both a blessing and a curse lol, just wish there was better aftermarket support...
Ooh and dont know if you know but 08 Ram trucks have a heavier rotating assembly and actual Forged conrods!! Not the Powder metal ones...
Thank you, Ryan, Yeah my understanding is that the 08 has a lighter and stronger rotating assembly. One of the reasons the engine produces over 300HP
I would like to try these heads on an earlier 4.7 just to see how it would affect HP/torque with the larger intake and exhaust ports.
@@martinbuilt another thing caught my eye after purchasing a set of 08 cams. My oems were solid, with the powdered metal lobes pressed on, with No oil holes on the intake lobes, and my aftermarkets have a hollow shank with welded lobes and oil holes. The lobe profiles seem to be the same in hight and duration but ill be double checking with the machinist.
Now I know these heads are suppose to be replaced if the cam journels are worn and out of spec, but mine just have alittle scoring. Ill be getting them mic'd and if they are in spec as far as diameter and oil clearance, im thinking about using some ultra fine lapping compound on the journels with the old camshaft, to knock the scoring down a bit. What do you think about this? Wondering if any of the bearing manufactures could make split bearings like crank bearing but for our heads... Ill have to look into that. If so, a machinist could easily align hone the cam journals id imagine. These 08 list for over $800 a piece and id rather hold off, contact some bearing places and see if maybe we(4.7 people) could bypass the need for replacing the whole heads on account of some journal wear.
Have a blessed day!! Ill let ya know what the homework turns up!!
Great demo on the cc kit, I'll be needing one of those soon. I also like the flag t-shirt in the middle of the video.
Thank you I appreciate that.
Martin, danke. Ein informatives video. Dies macht die tatsächlichen volumenwerte sehr klar. Ich freue mich auf neue videos. Alles Gute.
Thank you, I am glad you liked it and found it helpful.
Great video!
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸LOVE THE SHIRT!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Me too, Thanks 👍
You have inspired me to hop up my 4.7 despite all the nay saying people. I know the engines have great potential and I have one on the stand an 03 I’m working on right now. I’m having my cams custom ground. I’ll let you know how it turns out.
Sounds great, who are you having regrind the camshafts?
Very interesting. Appreciate you taking the time to make the video. Happy new years to you👍
Thank you John and a Happy New Year to you and yours.
Thanks, Martin! You do good work! Thank you, for all the informative remarks you have to share. Constantly looking for more videos from you! Keep on keepin' on!
Thanks, will do!
Feasibly, if there's no split timing on the twin spark plug setup, you could run the 08 engine on an older PCM like the JTEC. The real tragedy with the 4.7 is that it seems like cam support is gone.
Yes, the 08 can be installed and run with the dual plugs with the JTEC. I believe Crane and or Comp Cams will do custom regrinds on the HO camshafts.
Love the Videos having one guy dedicated to the 4.7 this much makes me almost not want to ditch my 4.7 for a hemi ( i have a 2006 Dakota 6 speed manual ) one thing i think you should wright scripts for the videos i struggle with stutters and getting lost for words allot that helps me with the few videos ive made in the past. Still keep it up man maybe we can start a bigger following for this engine that i believe has ton of potential
Right on!
Love your shirt Martin, Love the precision testing!
Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it.
Happy New Year Martin from the Uk. Love your videos almost as much as I love my HO Overland. It would be awesome if you could ever build some motors and do dyno comparisons. Seeing bhp/torque gains for all the hard work and effort you put in would be great to see.
Keep the content coming 🇬🇧🇺🇸
Happy new year, will do!
Martin!!!!! You are in my brain dude. !!! Exactly what iv been looking to do. Now are the head gaskets the same??
I do believe the part numbers are different, I'll look to see what the differences are.
I got a 04 dakota very informative
I wish my 01 Dakota was a 02-04 because of the NGC EMC would installing a 08 4.7 much easier.
Cool video Martin. Would love to see the different heads on a flow bench.
Thank you, yeah I would too I used to know a guy that did head work and had a flow bench but he has since retired.
@@martinbuilt I've read on forums people swapping to the later 4.7 engines by changing relucter wheels etc to make it run with the other computer.. wonder if the later heads drop valve seats? You could be onto something though.. 08 heads on a HO with boost... hmmm.
Great comparison Martin 👍😁
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks Martin and Happy New Year!
Thank you and Happy New Year to you and yours.
Thank you and a Happy New Year to you and yours.
Nice job Martin,Happy New Year....
Thank you Dan, and a Happy New Year to you and yours.
Port and polish ho heads
Well done! If you do an engine swap you outta port and polish the heads.
Edit: nice shirt, I have one of those as well. 👍
Thank you, I am planning on a engine swap and yes I would do some porting and polishing.
@@martinbuilt be prepared to have more power. You're gonna go with a rebuilt HO and ported and polished heads... You'll light up all 4 tires. One thing I did to my old HO was get the Bosch platinum +4 plugs (4428) the ONLY plugs I use in these engines. You'll notice it in the pedal. Never had any problem and throttle response like you wouldn't believe. 👍
Great video Martin, it got me thinking: What about 08+ pistons in the H.O.? I assume it should up the compression even more, but perhaps clearance issues?
Thank you I'm glad you liked it. Yes I'm quite sure there will be clearance issues and not just a little bit.
@@martinbuilt Thanks for the reply, figured as much haha! Just looking over all my options as I've got my 4.7 apart right now. Already did lots of work thanks to your videos, the ATI super damper is on my list for when I'm reassembling everything.
I know this is kind of the opposite end of the motor, but do happen to know where to get a full set of main cap bolts? I'm building my 4.7 in my truck and I can find the normal bolts but not the studded bolts.
Good stuff thanks
You are welcome.
Would the 02+ HO heads have better flow than the 08+ heads if the 02+ HO heads were ported and polished? I have been running nitrous on the factory heads for a while on my 02HO. I don’t mind porting and polishing them if they’ll net me equal or better gains rather than finding, buying, refreshing and installing 08 heads on to it lol. Also,, have you found anyone doing cam regrinds for the 4.7 cams?
If you're going to stick with a naturally aspirated engine I would stay with the HO heads and port and polish the intake and exhaust runners especially the exhaust.
Love the stuff you do: However, You really need to let people know If some of the stuff you do also applies to 4l 6cyl. jeeps of the same years.
Martin, are the older HO and non-HO head the same castings? I was under the impression they were, and the only difference was the cam itself and the valve springs and valves. Just curios. Thanks.
I am mid HO cam swap now. Did not pull the heads to do valves, nor did I change the springs. Cams and full cloyes timing kit only. Read a few places the spring swap was not necessary. I figured you would know for certain, if they are even different. Any thoughts on that also much appreciated whenever you have time sir.
Happy New Year! Thanks for doing what you do
If you have made a video on either matter or covered them my apologies I may have missed that part or not seen it yet. I’ve seen much of your stuff but do not recall this spec of info from you. Especially the valve spring thing, I know I googled that up some before just doing the cam swap only.
Thanks again for making these videos!
There is a difference between the HO and Non HO heads. The cams, springs for sure. When I get a non-HO head I'll cc it and report the differences. Thank you.
@@martinbuilt Thank you for the info sir
Hopefully I get no valve float! Time will tell.
Thank you for replying as well. I’m sure you get a lot of questions making these videos.
Hi Martin any advice on sleeping transmission from 2 to 3 gear on a2002 grand cherokee 4.0 thanks
I ove your video to help people thanks
Could you cc check a non ho early model head? 02-05 for comparison of the gains for ho vs 08-13 heads.
I will when I get my hands on a non H O head.
I bought on o6 non-HO Dakota. This channel is teaching me a lot on how to work on the engine. Now I'm curious about a rebuild with 08+ pistons and cams with HO heads. Which would be the best intake for that combo?
Hello Chris, the 08 pistons will not work with the HO or non-HO heads as the piston will make contact with the cylinder head. I like the 08 intake manifold the best. You would need an adapter and a throttle cable bracket for the throttle body.
This is great info. Makes me wonder what my comp ratio is as I built my engine as a base 4.7 with the dome pistons.
with 99-07 heads and HO pistons you should have a 9.5:1
@@martinbuilt that would explain why I can’t run regular gas no more 😂 my math put me close though, I thought I was at 9.6:1. I run no less than 91 octane now.
@@dunercr does the engine ping with 87 octane?
@@martinbuilt not audibly, but feels low on power. I don’t want to chance damage so I run the higher octane.
@@dunercr yep good idea
Is it any performance info on the 3.7 to a 05 grand Cherokee?
Let me bounce this off you. 02 non HO 4.7 with 08 heads to lower compression? Using a High flow intake and exhaust method to Keep Hp but get better MPG. What do you think? Or will it raise compression?
Sorry , but it 's hard for me to understand , please tell me is there a difference in the heads between 4.7EVA and 4.7HO ? What's the difference?😳🤔jeep 🇷🇺 Sincerely Konstantin.
The HO heads have smaller intake and exhaust ports and smaller combustion chambers.
You would gain air flow with the later model cylinder heads but sacrifice compression
@@martinbuilt Martin thank you very much for the answer , you are the only one who can specifically help in 4.7 🤘🏽🤘🏻
Have you ever replaced the valve guides ? I realize this involves heating the head and driving the old guides out, then chilling the new guides before driving them in. My head has oblong exhaust guides, and there is excessive play even with new valves.
No I've never done that and that is something I would probably let the professionals handle.
Great videos sir, I have an 08 Durango 4.7 with the newer 16 plug motor and it has been a complete dog since I have owned it. My 02 GC 4.7 was way faster. The Durango has about 180k, it runs ok but is pretty gutless. What is your opinion on the later 4.7? I am thinking it has a restricted converter but still need to test it.
it should be the other way around. The 02 JGC had 235 HP and if it had a HO engine then 265. The 08 Durango had 303 hp @ 5,650 rpm. Something must not be right with the Durango.
So does this mean you could pull a set of pistons and heads from an 08 and put them on a older motor and use them
No I don't believe it does, you could use the cylinder heads but the pistons to rods will not work.
You'd be better off just doing a complete 08 engine swap.
I read somewhere on a remanufactured motor list that one of the fixes was drilled heads for better oil draining at the rear of the head and motor. Is that true and could this be done at home or should it be done at a machine shop?
Yeah I've also heard the same thing and I would think you could do that on your own if you have a link to that mod I would like to see it
So i can take 08 heads and toss it on say a 04 motor and all i have to do is extend the coil wiring to wire up both coils and thats it?
You will also need the exhaust manifolds the fuel injectors from the 08.
And the valve covers.
Hey Martin would it be possible to use 08+ heads and cams with the H.O dome pistons on a 99 non H.O engine?
Yes you should have no problem with clarences with that combination.
Can you swap the entire 2008+ engine into a wj
Yes, you could, you will need the exhaust manifolds from the 08+ and modify the Y pipe and you will need to replace the relocator gear on the crankshaft with a 16 tooth and the passenger side cam gear.
@@martinbuilt that seems like a very viable option for guys plagued with the lifter failure.
I want to pick your mind one more time. Daughter has a 00 4.0 WJ that had its head crack. Dad came across a 4.7 salvage title. Could I essentially pull the engine, harness, and mounts from the donor and it be plug and play? I wouldn’t think jeep would build many different interior harnesses as it would not be cost effective. We changed my wife convertible Camaro to a v8 6 speed with nothing more than a cross member, engine harness, and drivetrain. 2 days and driving
@@nate4036 I think you would also have to replace the transmission
@@martinbuilt yes sir. The salvage title one is complete. I haven’t counted/ matched the harness at the firewall yet. That’s my only hold up.
so i have a 04 overland with a 4.7HO the only thing i changed was a k&n air filter. whats the best way to make some cheap HP. i love my jeep but wish it could do alittle better.
love your videos
I would do a cat-back exhaust, upgrade the fuel injectors and a bore 70mm throttle body.
@@martinbuilt any idea what kind of gains i would be looking at? i think im close to 290hp now.
thanks
@@steveseefeldt6550
It might be good for 10 to 15hp and better MPG's
A K&N can not give you 25hp from the stock 265.
With all my mods I might be at 300
What's your advice for my 2002 4.7 I'm planning on rebuilding the block? What should i do with the heads? They are undamaged. Have them rebuilt or get new?
I would go ahead and have them rebuilt, and to ensure that the valve seats don't drop on your new rebuilt, I would have them put in the oversized valve seats.
Does the H O Heads have only one sparkplug ?
Yes, there is only one spark plug.
I'm currently using the 08 intake manifold on my 08 engine. Wondering what it would be like with the 03 intake. Only downside is I would have to run the 68 mm throttle body. I'm thinking of making a adapter plate to run the 75mm throttle body on a 03 intake! Any thoughts?
Hi Chris, I think you will be going backwards, I feel that the 08 intake is the best. When I installed the 08 intake on my 04 I could feel it with the butt dyno big time. The opening on the 03 intakes is only 72mm and that would be as large of a throttle body that I would use, anything larger wouldn't gain anything. If you what to try it and let us know what you think.
Mr.Martin I have a question on a 4.7 .and that is on the crank , Which crank is the late model .I have 04 .I bought one to rebuild and it's stamped on the block 10\03 .it 31 coggs with one more being longer ..Just not sure if I have the right crank.
Sincerely db
The crankshafts are the same from 99-07 and the HO cranks 02-04 were steel.If you have a JTEC ECM (3 plug) you will need a 16 tooth reluctor wheel.
@@martinbuilt well I don't believe the crank I took out of the engine I bought is steel nor would the crank that is my ram now . and it's a 4 plug . So i believe you answered my question and that is 32 toothe is the right crank .
Thanks
Is the exhaust manifold bolt pattern the same on the two heads? Would 2004 standard 4.7 exhaust manifold fit the 2008 head ?
no they are different. If you swap a set of 08 heads you'll need the exhaust manifolds as well.
Hey i have a 08 4.7 jeep. Would it be smart for me to switch to h.o cams or the ones i have better?
Stick with the 08 Cam shafts.
Martin hi , tell me please , can I steal the cylinder heads from dodge ram 4.7 2009 310 horsepower on my jeep wj 4.7 HO , are they suitable ? Thanks
It is duable, you will gain air flow on the intake and exhaust especially the exhaust ports but you will sacrifice a little bit of compression.
You will also need to replace the fuel injectors with the late model ones and you'll need to use the coils and Ignition wires from the late model
@@martinbuiltThank you, I understood about the ignition coils and fuel injectors, coils for two spark plugs. Martin tell me is there a difference between EVA and HO camshafts ? Valve opening value and valve timing phase ? Opening angle in degrees ?
@@КонстантинПанов-б2и
Maybe this video can answer some of your questions.
ruclips.net/video/FEeXtDnWy8w/видео.html
Valve timing will depend on what camshaft you use.
@@martinbuilt Thanks
Interesting info, how different is cc for a non ho head compared to an ho head?
when I get a non HO head I will let you know.
@@martinbuilt ok thanks, it's more out of curiosity to see how much of a difference there is between the two. 👍
Is the4.7L HO cylinder head compatible with a non HO 4.7L .
Yes you can swap them on a non HO engine
What is the. Main differences between the 99-07 4.7 and 08 and up 4.7 and will every part from a 08 and up bolt onto a early 4.7
I would say that the combustion chambers, intake and exhaust ports are the main differences.
You can interchange the valve and camshafts.
@@martinbuilt okay thank you I took the heads off of my girlfriends 99 wj and they were both cracked. Tryin to see if later model heads will work? Also could I swap a 32 tooth motor in there, it has a 16 tooth now?
Hey Martin, can I use 08 and up lifters from a 4.7 in my 99 wj?
Yeah I'm pretty sure you can you can even use ones from a Ford 4.6 and 5.4 l engine.