Breaking the Audio “Rules“ | Recording Vocals with a Small-diaphragm Condenser
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- More videos like Breaking the Audio “Rules“ | Recording Vocals with a Small-diaphragm Condenser 👉 • Studio & Recording Les...
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When it comes to tracking vocals, it‘s almost second nature to reach for that trusty large-diaphragm condenser microphone. That said, is it truly blasphemous to use small-diaphragm mics to record vocal parts? In this video, Sweetwater‘s Mitch Gallagher breaks down the general differences between large- and small-diaphragm microphones, starting with a short history lesson before diving in to the sound samples. What are your go-to mics for tracking vocals? Let us know in the comments below!
After you watch, check out Sweetwater.com today for all your music instrument and pro audio needs! 👉 imp.i114863.net/Zd3WL0
0:00 - Intro
0:33 - Small vs. Large Diaphragm Mics
3:25 - Should We Stick with the Rule?
3:53 - Intro to Lucie Ashmore’s Vocals on the LA120 Mic
5:01 - Lucie’s Finished Track
6:21 - Lucie’s Dry Vocal
6:47 - Last Thoughts on this Rule
7:26 - Thanks for Watching!
#Sweetwater 
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Thanks for testing out this audio conundrum with us today! What "rules" should we break next?
using usb mic to recording a snare ... that's a breaker!!! or using bass drum mic to recording toms ( I think I saw it on the drums of Eagles of death metal)
It would also be interesting to know if the microphones used live are very or so different from those used in a recording studio.
If you're in to "old school" R&B you know that Isaac Hayes' Oscar winning "Theme From Shaft" vocal was recorded on an AKG 451 small diaphragm mic. The engineer put up the mike thinking it would be a "scratch" vocal that Isaac would re record later,but it turned out so well,they left the track alone. Sometimes the content is more important than the equipment.
Pooping on the tour bus.
Getting the most out of untreated spaces when recording vocals on a prosumer level .
When Mitch speaks I listen
Facts!
He needs to Run for President Already 😂🎉
Right party, left party, independent, pro audio party 🙋🏽♂️
I've recently realized that for singing, I tend to EQ SDCs less compared to LDCs, and vice versa for speech.
Funny I come across this now. I produced a session for an artist a couple weeks ago while using my SDC as a talkback mic. I ended up throwing on a pop filter and tracking stacks of background vocals right from that same mic. Worked perfectly. I slightly lifted a low shelf from my analog console during tracking, but I don't believe I adjusted any EQ in the mix. Might have had a de-esser on the vocal bus. Nicest and airiest top end I've got on any of my BGVs so far.
awesome video! I’ve been seeing a lot of smaller bands doing live session and npr tiny desk contest entries using a sdc on vocals. Most of those videos are recording softer female vocals. I noticed the trend and couldn’t find any videos to support it. This is exactly what i’ve been looking for. Thanks!
True. The first example that came to my mind was Mandolin Orange's take on Unknown Legend. The vocals sound amazing. Thanks to the singer, of course. But SDC all the way.
Thanks for your video on this subject.
From June to November 2021, I was on an adventure to learn about and find the best kind of microphone for my voice and a sound engineer friend of mine was my sound yoda. He told me that we would have to be careful and thorough in our search because of my basso profundo speaking and singing voice.
So while we discovered that the senn e935 was definitely a winner on the dynamic side, after months of testing many LDCs with no clear standout, or success stories, he came up with the idea of trying the Line Audio c2me pencil mics he had.
He explained to me that while they are typically used for instruments like drums, they are also used in choir environments quite a bit, and figured with their almost flat sound response curve that it could work well.
The line audio c2me pencil mic recordings were perfect for my voice, and while he couldn't sell it then to me, after more comparisons of SDC, I picked up the apex185b pencil mics and they sound great, almost as good as the line audio c2me pencil mics, just a smidge brighter. One day either I'll learn how to or maybe he'll show me how to eq them to sound exactly like his line audio c2me pencil mics.
Turned out to be an even better thing we tried SDC mics, because he started using them again on other gigs inside and outside and he's been very happy with the results.
So both the sound engineer and I wholeheartedly agree with breaking this rule. 🎙️🎤🙃✌️
Stay safe and stay awesome.
It's amazing this video answers exactly the question I had. Thanks so much!
Beautiful detail: more feeling. Been experimenting with SDCs. For pure-tone, like instruments, or louder, like singing, up to 20dB EIN self-noise is fine, but for voiceover or reading, every dB below 20 counts big. 15dBA for the LA120 is a very good level. Due to the smoothness and lack of resonances in SDCs, I find they can take a little EQ better that dynamics or LDCs. If you EQ at all, of course...they sound so real. More SDCs slip below 20dBA as time goes by.
Ive always loved an sdc for vocals. I get ultra clarity and it sounds amazing through a driven hard tube mic preamp. Nice video! .
Hi Mitch, I learnt so much from this video. Thank you !
Thank you so much sir for your packaged information.
Some excellent tips. Thanks a million!
For the longest time (7 years at this point) I have always used some sort of large-diaphragm mic to record basically anything, except my own voice. I have a particular love-hate relationship to my Samson C02 pencil condenser, as in I hate the sound it gives me, for anything but my own voice. But for that it does amazingly well despite the high noisefloor.
Well most of the time I just use it to talk with people on th internet, but it's fine for that application. Albeit I had to hack a small Røde furcap on to it to take care of the plosives.
Great video. Thanks!
RUclips recommended this in the middle of my search for videos on the Line Audio CM4. An SDC that seems to be very popular for recording classical orchestra instruments and choirs, particularly in stereo pairs and as spots. But they also seem to work well for some roles on drums and even some narration/spoken word work. And without breaking the bank. Though getting one imported from Sweden is a bit of a pain.
There's a distributor in Canada if you're in Canada or the US
I have a pair. They’re incredible. The least amount paid for something that performs so well.
A great comparison of small and large diaphragm mics. Thanks.
Sometimes I think people use LDC's because you're "supposed to" and "they look impressive".
I have had great results using SDC's both live (SM86 anyone?) and in the studio.
Now break some more rules and use a dynamic mic. GASP!
Very interesting! For those of us without a closet full of microphones and 10 preamp choices....microphone recording becomes a black magic, hope by golly affair. You are correct, we still need to find a combination of devices that pairs well with the specific vocalist. The SD condenser test in the video would have had Elton John screaming "this ain't working!" :)
Thank you for the rule breaker! The most insider information on condenser mics on the planet.
Did a gospel with ksm137 for each singer. Sounded so damn good! Only thing to deal with is the high sensitivity but that's what pad's made for.
Love it, do much knowledge!!!
Damn! Lucie’s got some seriously beautiful sounding pipes!
Great video, thanks! I often use a schoeps CMC5U with MK4 capsule into a grace M101 mic preamp to apogee duet 3 line in:)
wow...this is a cool chain! i like clean sound with no color. same chain with a sound devices preamp would be nice too!
I got a new but old stock Electro Voice Re200- just like what he’s holding, but shorter like a pen. I can’t dial the right gain. Very low in picking up of sound even I sing directly on it. Does condenser like this deteriorate over time, even kept in retail box?
This a great series
Great video!
Dear Sir ! Please let me know: small Diaphragm Condenser Microphone is good for Podcasting & livestream om RUclips ?
- Neumann KM 185
or
- TELEFUNKEN ELEKTROAKUSTIK M62 FET HYPERCARD CONDENSER MIC
I am newbie, Thank You !!!
SDCs have incredible clarity! The best thing I learned is Lucy's technique of singing right up against the pop filter with a long distance to the mic....fascinating. It's like her voice becomes an instrument.
Since they're used all the time for location dialogue and ADR (as well as interviews and other location audio), I wouldn't call this "breaking the rules". They're also used quite a bit for classical and opera, and Josh Groban recorded vocals on a small diaphragm condenser.
How about using asmall condenser for voice over for a darkish male voice? Thanks for your great presentation!
Thanks Mitch!
I have a 'matched' pair of Behringer C-2's. I haven't put them through any tests yet, but being on a tight budget they just may work! Thanks for the video. Say "Hi" to TJ!
how are they? i consider buying them.
@@simpson6700 $60.00 pr. Seem to be good. Great for beginner or cheap home studio mikes. A number of people have used them for overheads. Must be -48 volt phantom powered. They come with a plastic carry case, foam screens and stand mounting hardware. Also, there's a selectable flat or roll off switch built in.
All good producers will use whatever sounds good.
+1 with my Akg c 451 eb. Will try this more on vocals.
It’s about time Sweetwater broke the mold on this myth that LDC’s poopoo on SDC’s. I’ve trialed and errored with several LDC’s before arriving at both the Sennheiser MKH 50 and Sony C535p. I stopped after those two. And now I’m as good as gold.
Thanks for another interesting video. Just one thing: when mentioning frequency response of a mic (or of anything, for that matter), please mention +-db. Otherwise, everything seems to be 20 to 20,000!
That's been a huge gripe with me for decades. Around the 1970's, the FTC clamped down bigtime about that, but they've really dropped the ball. The standard tolerance (as you're aware of) is + or -- 3 db.
I seems like SDC are much cheaper when comparing same quality mics. If you want a sound as good as a Oktava Mk012 you probably have to spend double on a LDC. The same with a Neumann Km184 and another comparable LDC.
Any simultaneous comparison with LDC? :(
Her voice sounds reaally great through that mic
Really? The studios that have had the magical Enya use SDCs on her? Wow bruh mind blown again! Now to be fair I've never thought of what mics Enya sang on. Mostly cause I didn't know and still don't know how the heck 1 finds that kinda thing out. How does 1 find stuff like that out anyways? How can someone find out sample rate and bit depth also?
The link to the gear in the description is dead. What mic was used to record this video?
How to make the voice in a small diaphragm sound thicker ?
Proximity effect would add low end but it would be best to just add EQ afterwards..
Generally. As long as the mic doesn't sound like a walkie-talkie (we're talking super budget dollar store stuff here) then you can get away with a lot with some good EQ work. Your engineer can probably make any microphone pop... but the thing is. It's better to work with a consistently good mic.
Most SDCs priced $100-200 will be fantastic when it comes to vocals. But you'll find a lot around $1500 (like the Schoeps mics) and yes... they are fantastic. But not everyone looking for good home-studio sound has to consider those.
But do consider SDCs and remember that if you're going to be up close on them. You need to consider EQ'ing out more than just the proximity effect on the low end. But also work with the high end as they do tend to get a little harsh up close. (Though close mic'ing is sometimes warranted)
I have 6 SDCs by now. Some are less stellar than others but I've had more bad LDCs than SDCs.
I always thought the idea of needing a "large diaphragm condenser mic" was hype, and people tend to buy them because 1) they "look cool" and 2) they want to rule out using a non-large-diaphragm mic as being the reason their vocals are sub-par. Great business income for the microphone companies! :) I'll add that, for home recording, you're often better off recording vocals with the mic up very close, so that the mic doesn't pick up extraneous noises. (and roll off the low end when mixing) Luckily the small diaphragm mic I'm using as a good built-in pop filter/windscreen.
So a SDC is more correct sounding then the epic Rode NT1-A? What? Mind blown!
lol the NT1A has never been remotely correct sounding. The NT1 yeah, not the NT1A
I use sm181/c just bc i don't have any other mic to sing 😅
I saw a video of Sinatra, back in the 60s, recording vocals with a small diaphragm Telefunken.
Sounds great and you didn’t even care to use a shock mount
99% of my recordings are to demo song I’ve written .. to give to the band so they can get an idea how it goes then we change the song to fit the band .. so as long as it’s decent that’s all I need ..
The Blue Encore 300s I bought a couple of weeks ago worked great!
Oh but you can. I have a mate who records vocals with a DPA ST4006A exclusively. Small pencil style condenser with an omni only pattern. His partner is just too overwhelmed with bigger microphones and she can't put in a confident performance. Comes out great. There are very few rules.
There ist a very interesting article by Bore fromm Neumann which states that the more omnidirectional pattern in the bass range hast NOTHING to do with the diameter of the capsule. It is characteristic For a double (back to back) diaphragm capsule which can bei built with small diaphragm, too - in fact you may buy those. Single diaphragm large condensor capsules do not have that effect.
One less reason for large diaphragm miikes.
BTW I do not own any large diaphragm mike and probably won't buy one. Examples of my results can bei heard in my channel.
She's good!
Can someone recommend a Small-diaphragm Condenser for voice over? Thanks!
Great question! Honestly there are a lot of great options out there that you could consider depending on the sound you want and how much you want to invest. A WA-84 from Warm Audio would be a solid affordable option to consider, or the KM184 if you want a more transparent sound on a really quiet mic. Schoeps has a really great high-end small diaphragm mic with a supercardioid pattern, as well.
Feel free to reach out to me if you need help comparing anything!
Connor Smith, Sweetwater Sales Engineer, (800) 222-4700 ext. 1793, connor_smith@sweetwater.com
@@sweetwater What about the Samson CO2 for a more more more affordable decent option?
NOTE: You were 1.6db over the RUclips volume limit...so additional RUclips compression was added to your video. Reminder: RUclips video/audio codec compression after upload and before the before mentioned 1.6db over the limit audio compression, is 10x more compressed than MP4.
Next time let us hear the different mics, like neumann U87 or sennheiser mkh 800 compare to dpa 4006 or even dpa 4060, extra small…..☺️
Ceteris paribus!
One other thing worth mentioning, is that a small diaphragm microphone will be much more forgiving if you don't have an acoustically well treated room.
In a simple home/bedroom studio a large diaphragm microphone can acually do more harm than good, even if they do look nice.
Sorry, but that is incorrect. SDC's have less dynamic range than LDC's and will make background noise and room reverb sound louder. It is a small difference but technically the opposite of what you said is true. If you want to record in an untreated room, one trick is to close-mic with an omnidirectional mic. It is counterintuitive, but an omnidirectional mic at 3 inches will have a greater ratio of direct/room sound than a cardioid at 12 inches. You may want to put the omnidirectional mic to the side a bit to avoid plosives and sibilance.
Omnidirectional pattern has a little bit more than twice the coverage area of cardioid, but that does not equal twice the perceived volume. You need 10 times the sound pressure to double the perceived volume. Twice the coverage area equals about +3db (maybe +4db in practice) in reflected sound. The usual recommendation is to record vocals 12" away to avoid the proximity effect. Omnidirectional mics don't exhibit the proximity effect, so you can record closer.
Halving the distance from the sound source to the capsule increases the sound pressure by 6db. So when you go from 12" away from the capsule to 3" away, that is a 12db increase in sound pressure. So if you compare a cardioid mic at 12" to an omnidirectional mic at 3", everything else being equal, the the cardioid mic will have approximately 8db or so more reflected sound than the omnidirectional mic.
If you are close micing with omnis, just be aware that there are free field omnis and and diffuse field omnis. Free field omnis are designed to have a flat frequency response on axis. Diffuse field omnis are designed to have a flat when you average the frequency response from all angles.
@Kites Yes I agree with the math, but you are comparing to an omni directional which most enty level large diaphram microphons are not.
In the choise between to cardioids, one LDC and one SDC in 'bedroom studio', one might find the SCD much easier to avoid unwanted room sound with, though I do agree with with you in your stated case 👍
@@kites4121 Does this also apply to omni SDC's? That would also negate the proximity effect, right?
girl can sing
Oh good grief nothing new SM57 is a small diaphragm been used for decades
I’ve tried every type, including a Neumann, because that’s what everybody tells you to do. Guess what sounds best for my voice, and my style of music. An SM58.
and in some cases the sm57 with the a81ws filter...i did blind testing with this combo against my 7b and goodness was it close...
Have you tried the KSM8? It's an SM58 on roids, and it was well worth the $400. (It works better for my voice.)
Still unsure if I would like a condenser better in the studio or not, though. My AI went up a couple weeks ago...
Will know in a couple weeks!
I use a KM184 for voice often, but nothing compares to my Brauner Phanthera.
SDC’s are so underrated. Take the Sennheiser MKH 50 for example. It has way better attenuation of the human voice than the 416.
its a lady josh homme
Rules? HaHaHa... we don't neeeeed no stinking rules. If you check the specs on some of the big body vocal condensor mics the diaphragm is fairly small not all of them are large.
I don't think so. Lower self noise is best.
Meh - complete fail. It takes at least two items to make a comparison. A small diaphragm microphone may sound good by itself, but that says nothing about how it sounds COMPARED to another type of microphone. You should have compared it with a large diaphragm condenser so I could hear how they both sound with the same singer in the same studio, and only then can I say whether it sounds as good as the larger condenser. Impossible to compare with only one sample. JT
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LETS GO BRANDON
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