Has Modernity REALLY Made Martial Arts Better?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- The ol' "traditional versus modern" debate has been endlessly going for years at this point, but I think most people get too caught up in the idea that its necessarily a binary discussion.
Martial arts haven't progressed much. The Meta just changes. Modernity makes almost everything shit.
Back when I was doing Judo, osoto gari was one of my favorite throws along with hiza guruma. As far as the general question, I am not sure. I am kind of like where you seem so stand. You can pick out aspects where there has been improvement, but also aspects that have degraded. It also largely depends on the art I think, as well as what the individual wants to get out of it, or what they are training for in the first place. Someone that wants to train in BJJ is not going to have many of the same motivations and goals as someone that practices koryu for example.
All true. It definitely is a bit subjective. I was going to add pedagogy to the discussion as well, but I felt like it was just belaboring the larger point since my stance on it was going to be “it depends.”
I do think, at least anecdotally, the most “modern” consumers are kind of looking for a martial art that they can almost download directly into their brain as much as possible. I was poking fun at it in the video, but one of the marketing strengths of BJJ is that you can get a single leg, arm bar, rear naked choke, etc. operational against someone of a similar skill level in a live setting pretty fast. You could spend 8 months on O Soto and make very little progress.
Different folks have different tolerances for that kind of thing-and that’s totally fine. My only issue is when a lack of tolerance/understanding degenerates into assumptions about the quality of an art.
Appreciate your comment and glad you liked the video, though! Certainly more to come.
So, here's a thought: Martial disciplines, old or new, are doing just fine. I may have a personal issue with the tendency toward developing over complexity, fractionalization and, God knows, the point system but they are evolving and are not reliant on my approval. Perhaps the biggest driver of this debate is the unwillingness, or inability, of established practitioners to appreciate that evolution in and of itself is directionless and will traipse about until it hits on something that works given its circumstances. There will be many false starts but some very few will, almost inevitably, advance unarmed fighting. Peace.
Just realised that there was ikkyo nage in judo in this video and a lot similiar throws like in Aikido in all these old judo videos (like koshinage, which is my personal favourite)... I have a background in BJJ and MMA and eventually few years ago started Aikido because how I think things and what I wanted from my training changed... I wanted to still train hard, but safely and not hurt my opponent. Of course I still roll now and then with my BJJ friends (ruclips.net/video/GdZ0bI7Nm9k/видео.html)...🤔 Personally I think that cross training is must if you want to understand your Martial Art better and fill all the caps older/traditional Martial Arts have still a lot to offer (quality) even for modern Martial Arts, because today Martial Art are mostly filling the caps with muscle and not with the actual techinque itself.
RUclips as it is, especially for good grappling content, hasn't even exiated for a full decade yet probably. Or if so then barely.
I think that the western view on martial arts getting better is that the few sports thag are popular in America and Europe have become more advanced. Kickboxing, Wrestling, BJJ, Boxing and MMA, have all become better in the last thirty or fifty years. The problem is that these aren't the only martial arts out there
How can BJJ practitioners talk shit about judo? 🤔 BJJ branched out of judo. I first learnt bjj at a judo dojo when I started judo.The friend who introduced to me to my current bjj gym was a serious competitive judoka. Like he even studied judo abroad on an exchange program in Korea. Both my BJJ coaches are also judo black belts.
What's this biff between judo and bjj you talk about? Pay no attention to ppl talking smack online. They don't know what they are talking about. I only did judo for a year but I know judokas are toughest mofos I've ever met. I just don't get how a self respecting grappler can ever talk shit about judo... 🤔
Could tell me please from which video is this clip that starts at 05:35? Beautiful judo
Would love the references on those clips you used to make your video
One of the reasons I quit Karate was cause it became more and more sportified; the soul of it had left, I felt, and we were basically just left with the husk. In line with your rise and fall of society comment, perhaps the same is true of martial arts: in times of war, good fighting arts are effective, secretive, and nuanced for that context; and in good times, the art becomes a sport, or becomes more abstract, until the "martial" is lost, and all you have is the "art".
It's interesting, because I'm studying historical German fencing, and it follows the same pattern. There is a period of intense, bloody war, a good art is produced, it becomes widespread, and then people modify it to use for fun, like sports or games. Many, many years later, after the martial art had long died, people are now trying to recreate the sword fighting skill of Liechtenauer and his fellowship and, even with our incomplete knowledge, we can tell the difference between his fencing and, say, Joachim Meyer who did fechtschule, sport-like, fencing cause the older system involved more thrusts to the vitals, and picking guys up and dropping them on their heads.
So I guess it isn't exactly that modernity made martial arts worse or better; martial arts in general just decay in times of peace, and new arts develop depending on what is available to use, cause our lives revolve around more than just martial arts. It's really quite fascinating, seeing the social (and historical) aspect of martial arts.
I didn't think osoto gari was useless but still I'd like very much to stop being a troglodyte
I was a troglodyte for a long time, and still am in some respects! You should see the absolute orginizational chaos that are my folders for this channel.
great video ... those bjj clowns always keep claiming "it evolved" ... to which I usually reply something like "evolved HOW or WHAT FOR ... for the ground ... like, at the expense of literally everything else ..." because jutaijutsu (most specificly - a former ninja bodyguard school called Yoshin Ryu) gave birth to judo and judo in turn aborted bjj ... sure, in a perfect "bjj Gracie utopia" bjj would be second to none by far ... but in reality, the ground is the last place you want to be ... judo is far more well rounded, has superior groundgame than bjj has stand-up or throws and the strength and cardio by default is superior in judo than in bjj ... jutaijutsu isn't even known that well, let alone popular, but jutaijutsu even has technique combinations that aren't even allowed in modern day judo, grappling, jiu jitsu or mma tournaments ... they have joint-lock/throw combos that make it extremely difficult to even breakfall properly, if at all (due to the bodyguards of Edo Castle back in the days of feudal Japan being forced to protect the fortress against invaders in close quarters combat due to the very tight spaces), those jutaijutsu technique combos are so dangerous in fact that if you were to train jutaijutsu in the same way and at the same level of intensity as you would train wrestling or jiu jitsu or judo or whatever, you might as well build your dojo in the middle of your local hospital's intensive care unit because 100% guaranteed that's where most if not all students will end up before the first class is finished ... mma and bjj folk in particular brush off this harsh reality while making fun of it and saying stupid shit like "people who claim this, simply suck at fighting" ... but if that's the case, why is it not allowed in competition then ... a double standard to suit bjj's narrative ... same with traditional weapons: they call Masaaki Hatsumi a "fraud", they call Bujinkan a "fake martial art" ... and yet, they do not allow weapons inside the octagon (a HUGE part of the Bujinkan curriculum is all training with weapons) ... it's very easy and convenient to dismiss a martial art by intentionally nerfing it beforehand, based on your own made up rules ... moreover, it's very ignorant and disrespectful because you're essentially spitting on your ancestors graves ... people died to pass on and preserve those ancient martial arts techniques, secrets and traditions ... if it weren't for jutaijutsu, there wouldn't even be judo or bjj ... but they simply don't care because none of this suits their bullshit agenda ... the only so called history they believe is whatever INSERT FIRST NAME GRACIE tells them to believe (for a "martial art" that doesn't hold anything back to call most traditional styles "cults", they sure know how to act extremely culty themselves) ... jutaijutsu also has several ukemi waza/breakfall techniques that neither judo, much less bjj possess and these techniques - even outside of a fight - could very much even save your life, or - if you don't know them - result in your premature demise ... one of my "fellow" judoka managed to survive a car crash once that way, by using his zempo kaiten/forward roll, he ended up being merely injured on one side of his body, rather than ending up dead, completely injured or paralyzed for life ... those are subtle things and important details that your average bjj moron would never even consider because BLABLABLA ROYCE GRACIE YATAYATA UFC1 DERPDERPDEP JOE ROGAN ...
Takagi Yoshin Ryu was a samurai martial art, though some of the samurai practicing it could have possibly acted as ninja. Takamatsu was soke of 9 martial arts, and only 3 of them had any relation to ninja.
@@AcceleratingUniverse Bujinkan includes yoshin ryu jutaijutsu, Canada has a ninja school called hoshin roshi ryu (also jutaijutsu or hoshinjutsu), Italy (Turin) has the jutaijutsu kai school, Germany (Berlin) has the yanagi jutaijutsu school ... most students have a ninja type outfit during practice and yes I know I know it's probably to appeal to the masses because ninja are cool, but still, I could care less if it's Samuraï or ninja or yamabushi/sohei warriors, jutaijutsu is jutaijutsu, the core grappling training of all feudal Japanese warrior classes in the end is still jutaijutsu (or jujutsu or taijutsu, whatever, it sounds cooler, better and prettier when you just add everything together)
This guy used ”troglodyte” in a sentence, no way he can fight.
Other than that, of osoto-gari or however you spell it doesn’t work, I quit combat sports for good. I’m a dumb boxer and even I have done several times.
Great video! Subscribed!
You rule ! Please never stop making content ! お疲れ様 !
One of the big things missing is the brutality. People just used to straight up die from lethal techniques or be maimed and systems were based around that. I mean small joint manipulation would change grip fighting completely for example
Fantastic channel! Loving it!
Another great video and honestly one I can relate to and agree with! (I’ll come back with a longer comment later but thank you for another video and one so soon!)
Looking forward to it and, as always, really appreciate your support!
The context definitely matters, self defence or sport. Honestly self defence today is tested nowhere near as hard as it was when martial artists defended their style with their lives. In terms of the sport it goes both ways yes there is a vastly better body of knowledge on training methods and techniques however the advent of rules and equipment designed to protect the competitor has had an often detrimental effect on the martial art(take for example boxing or judo) . So yes the competitors are better prepared but their practice is often far removed from the suite of techniques and the toughness and resilience of its original practitioners. A good topic for a future video might be like how would Kimura perform against Abe or Ali against Simon Byrne in a street fight or carnival ring setting.