First hit (atemi) and then execute the lock, this is how it really works and its the base of original Jujutsu. Both Judo and Aikido (and Brazilian Judo/BJJ) forgot this canon.
Sort of a video in the works on this now. Sport has kind of got us all primed to think in very strict terms of "stand up grappling," "ground grappling," and "striking" has fixed, immutable phases. MMA somewhat solves this, but I'd argue even in MMA (at least at the moment) there isn't as much clinch-striking as I'd expect. I have an aching suspicion that its just not taught in America much. Even Muay Thai gyms in the States have a tendency to neglect the clinch from what I've heard around.
I appreciate your opinions and expression of them. I must assume that there is a good reason you omitted the following unique aspects of Aikido; Potentially fast paced, constant change of partners, dynamic crowd awareness, constant controlled stretching and the ability to modulate for physical condition. Also having a nearly 70 year old 5'-2" woman punctuate a struggle impasse with an effective head butt, last week, is both humbling and illustrates the versatility of the art. No Injuries Train Hard Have Fun
Excellent video. I agree with all of your observations. I've studied Aikido and Japanese Jiu-jitsu for two decades and run across all of these issues. There are so.e really cool techniques within Aikido, but many of them are delicate and require excellent timing. I use them within a broader framework of Jiu-jitsu to keep things more practical. No question there is value there. Your i sights are spot on.
The Russian pull off the collar and elbow tie up transitioning to a two on one or a two on one universal arm control, is where Aikido can be applied with resistance.
Ueshiba's opposition to make a modern sport out of Aikido from the very start, and then his post war attitudes towards violence + his wishes of independency from the supervision of US occupation forces shaped it all. A quick look into his bio is very useful to all. The aesthetic showcase that Aikido is today may have his roots on Ueshiba's traditionalist politics and philosophy. I agree with you that there's nothing wrong with that. In order to keep in touch with his convictions, Ueshiba may have choose to "limit" himself to a soft discipline. After all, he didn't need to keep fighting by then. Nice video!
Well, yeah, I thought it was common knowledge that Ueshiba didn't intend for Aikido to be a fighting art? That's why he created it, to be different from Aikijujutsu. Also, I understand that he also had a black belt in Kano Jujutsu.
Correct because he had seen the pettines and sickness of violence in a peaceful community. His early teachings before world war 2 is mostly aikijutsu, not Aikido. Aikido is a name given by the Nippon Botukukai to a peaceful harmonious merciful martial art which the AIKIKAI and Tohei's Ki Soceity is propagating today ( the modifications of Morihei as he had grown weary of being the strongest fighter as being the strongest "fighter" is worthless in the end). other dojo such as Yoshinkan and Yoseikan are Aikijutsu variants and does not mind mixing it with strikes or grappling , in the same way as its father fighting technique : Daito Aikijutsu. Aikido is a spiritual martial art but is very essential & important to live a peaceful happy life.
he never did it. In any case, not like you see today. He was highly competitive. The image for business of Morihei Ueshiba really doesn t represent him.
I've never done Aikido nor any East Asian martial art yet I highly enjoy these videos and your perspective on things. There is a universality to fighting where I feel like they're still very profitable in terms of information, and I really like the philosophy. Seeing things from the TMA's side is refreshing. Also niche historical topics hits my sweet spot just right, so I'm exited for you to talk more about that. Hope you make more of these, mate!
I appreciate that you appreciate it! I think TMA get kind of a bad rap. Some of the criticism is well-deserved, but I'm not a big fan of the black-and-white narrative that often gets presented. There will definitely be more to come!
I agree with the tucked elbow stuff. I Wrestled in HS. Wrestling and similar grappling systems can jam up Aikido. In fact Wrestling like systems also jam up striking heavy systems. Study some wrestling or a similar system to improve yourself.
As a former Aikido student turned BJJ practicioner, I appreciate your content because you helped me find certain things I learned in the past that works really well in a BJJ scenario. Looking forward to more insights.
The more martial versions of 'Aikido' already exist and are the predecessors of current forms of Iwama/ Shingu/ Yoshikan, et al. Most notably, where a lot of Aikido techniques originate from; Daito-ryu aiki-jujutsu. I've also heard the pre-war era 'Aikido' referred to as Aiki-Budo or aiki-jujutsu. So you can go very martial, right back to the battlefield jujutsu of the Takeda clan, but you get further from 'The Way' of O'Sensei's Aikido. I think they should all be practiced and preserved.
I’ve mentioned this in the other videos on aikido but I think the weapons context makes way more sense than the empty handed. Where I do see empty handed stuff come out is in sumo. A wonderful mix of striking and grappling with pace. I thought shomen ate was a joke move until watching sumo. But seriously again, I tend to agree with chris hein. Lots of moves are just grip breaks or moves to retain mobility and autonomy rather than control.
This video was such a detailed analysis of Aikido techniques and the bullshit opinions surrounding them on both sides. I love your videos because you have such a measured and thoughtful take on all the topics you cover. Keep up the amazing work ❤ I train in a style of jiu-jitsu where we pressure test a lot of aikido and judo techniques in a non-competitive (but still combative) setting. Joint manipulations can be weak on their own, but in my experience your analysis rings true: combining them with striking and good balance taking gives you so many more options to set up other techniques. There’s no black magic- they’re not going to destroy someone in a single move - but they can also be effective and we need more people experimenting with them to expand our understanding of these techniques.
Thanks! I work hard to strike that balance. I think there is a gigantic void in terms of measured perspectives in the Aikido world. Everyone is so polarized and, honestly, I don't think it helps anyone's position, either. You just end up coming off as rude or confrotation or a fanatic. It's not really a good look for either side of the arguement in my humble opinion. And yes, absolutely. I've been goofing with some sweeps to set up some manipulations recently. It's always kind of tough to properly train the strikes, though. Often strikers don't want to get locked or worry about a clinch in general, so a lot of this is often times about finding like-minded people to train with.
From someone whose main art is kung fu (a mix of a handfull of styles) I have found that being creative and thoughtfull is a must if you want to make sense of the weird stuff eastern arts often present to you. As long as you abide by the core principles of combat and biomechanics, creativity and freedom to experiment can only lead you to good results wether you find a good aplication or gain insight on why it would be better to do something else, but know you know it without discarding stuff without ever really trying, like so many people tend to do with TMA nowadays. Now, more video specific, in kung fu we have "qing na" which is stand up grappling, but more focused on locks and breaks more than taking people down like aikido does. My experience when trying to apply them in a non cooperative practice is just like you said, if both of you focus on only trying to qing na each other and both know the techniques, it's a lot of hand fighting and struggling than most of the time does not go anywhere, even when you mix it in with other elements like striking, only very situationally I have been able to pull some off. That's either because our grappling is not very good since we are a striking focused art, or many of the techniques are as you noted, all or nothing and it's mostly imposible to do them in a controlled manner without risk of injury for any of the practitioners.
As always, amazing content! I can experientially confirm the usefulness of aikido technique in hand fighting. I practice Sumo and have found some useful things from aikido that have helped get better positioning. I’m only 155lbs so I really need some tricky grappling to keep up with much heavier guys.
Check out Professor James Hundon based in San Francisco. He has successfully integrated small joint locks into a truly self defense oriented martial art. Also, wrist locks can be applied slow on the ground like any other lock if the opponent is properly controlled. I find them often. Standing wrist locks are indeed difficult, but an Aikido practitioner would learn to find them in the proper training environment. Just my quick thoughts. Good topic. Thanks!
I assume that the big issue here is that small joint manipulation fits better in armed scenarios. I think that try to push small joint manipulation into a unarmed scenario is just like try to push a square into a round hole. Although i agree that theres is value in use it in order to achieve a superior position in unarmed duel.
Thank you this video opened my mind to the fact that judo and jiu jitsu are in fact neglecting a set of techniques. However, it's waaay easier to teach a judo/bjj/wrestler/boxer guy the aikido techniques and have them be proficient than it is to have an aikido practicioner master their own techniques. Simply because they lack sparring. My hope is that bjj rules get tweaked a bit to encourage more standing game. Then, hopefully judo, wrestling and even aikido can shine in competition.
If you wanna knownwhat wristlocks would look in sparring, check tomiki aikido or shodokan aikido... It looks super sloppy but at least they do the techniques... I wonder if it could be added back into judo...
I'm an admirer of Shodokan's stuff. I think the conclusions we've arrived at are more or less the same, but our solutions are different. At this point, I'd like to see the techniques and things they do re-implanted into a Judo-esque format. Again, I'm an admirer of what they have going on, but I agree their sparring is a bit... unsophisticated. Arbitrarily limiting, even.
4:02 I think part of the “too dangerous” conversation that I thought of recently with Judo was that when early judo was having competitions with other jujutsu ryu to establish itself, it was better for them to focus the ruleset of the competition on things that they were best at i.e. throwing techniques. Many Other jujutsu styles of the time focused on locks and strikes so if judo fought them there then there was more of a chance for defeat. Kind of like how the Gracie’s came up with their own fighting ruleset that favored them (that took away all the ways they could lose) and then issued challenges that were stacked in their favor. Not saying that judo likely wasn’t the most effective combination of jujutsu styles but the way the competitions were set up then it would have been hard to beat them.
Alligato sempai !! 🙏🫡👍👏👏. Please explore and analyse : 1. Nishio sensei Aikido. 2. Léo Tamaki (french sensei) Aikido. I would appreciate your light on these two particuliar way of understand Aikido. I use aikido joint lock a lot in my job without hurting individual. But the rest is useless. 😂.
I’ll have to take a peek :) Yeah I’ve heard this story many times haha. I’ve had friends who use the stuff in police work and bouncing, but outside of those niches it kind of falls apart
There's a major issue here about small joint locks that needs to be brought up at some point. Traditional martial artists were often bone setters in Japan. A big break is far easier to set than a small one. Your arm has a certain number of large relatively straight bones in it. A 19th century osteopath could splint and treat a fracture. Smaller bones like those of the wrist area break in surprising ways. They don't always heal well either. Old time senseis were thinking, "If he breaks an arm, I can fix it. If he breaks a wrist, he might be handicapped for life." This isn't "the reason". Just another ingredient in the soup. Still, this seemed like a good video to mention it on.
Nice. Well thought out and delivered. I do Goju, and while I love the style and will practice it as taught, there are times I just think "why would you do that complicated move when you could just punch him in the face?" And *every* style has at least a few of those moves. But the flip side is, if you take out all the "pretty" moves and only do the basics, you end up with krav maga (sp?) or some such. And that's fine too, if that's what you want. But I like Goju and I choose to learn ITS foolish moves.
Funny enough, Judo was primarily made for self-defense. Made to throw, pin, submit, takedown and more. And Kano’s books made that perfect clear. “Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and when attacked, defend yourself.” A direct quote from Kano himself. All the techniques of Judo work so well in self-defense and since it began and onwards that was the primary reason to learn it. But sports was not even on Kano’s mind. Yes, he wanted it safe for competition use to help develop a mindset to win. However, he never wanted it to be trained as a sport.
Agreed. I have a script in half-production somewhere that talks a bit about Kano's ideas on sport. I don't know where on my hard drive it is, but his views and mine more or less align. I'm not opposed to competition, really, but I think its become more about "winning" than being a better version of yourself. Which is a shame.
I think the main issue is that people see all techniques the same. Some techniques (like wrist locks) are only really possible in a preamble to a fight, afterwards (arresting), when you initiate a fight (which is hilarious, considering Aikido’s pacifist nature), and/or when you have multiple people. This makes sense for Samurai, since you had low level police samurai, high level samurai diplomats, etc and these techniques would be perfect for them. But would be mostly useless to a bushi battlefield samurai. Once you’re in an actual engagement, it’s low percentage technique.
These arts are supposed to be for self defence, they're supposed to be defensive not offensive. Usually it's only muggars etc that go around attacking people. There is no first attack. I think the idea of Aikido is to take the opponents balance, use gravity to do the work. Perhaps when o sensei said if you attack him you are going against the universe, he meant the universal force of gravity. Once you've lost your balance you can't really do anything And there is a style of Aikido that does competitions, it's called Tomiki Aikido, I think that's close to the correct spelling
@@fredatlas4396 Aikido comes from AikiJujutsu and that's what the samurai would have used. AikiJujutsu doesn't have a pacifist mindset of self defense.
@@TheCCBoi I think you are confused, in traditional Karate-Do and Aikido there is no first attack, Aikido not Aiki jutsu. Of course when training someone has to be the attacker, otherwise how would you practice defending yourself against an attacker. But practitioners of these Budo arts don't go around attacking people or mugging anyone. In order to reach a high level of skill it requires many hours, years of training, practice and with this comes self discipline and self control which enables them to control their emotions, anger etc. In Japanese there is the saying, Karate ni sente nashi, there is no first attack in Karate, and Karate wa kunshi no bugei, Karate is the martial art of inteligente people. The founder of Aikido was a profoundly spiritual person, he practised some Shinto practices and Zen
Problem with Aikido is its trainees. So many ignore fitness and strength and conditioning training, but Ueshiba was well known to do this. I did for 20 years, and indeed taught it. Like u say, the techniques are the same as other martial arts. Personally, I think sparring is not the basis for good self defense.. it tends to formalise tentative movements to read opponent, and to work within rules. I've been in lots of fights, and fundamentally it is about fast and aggressive movements in an unpredictable environment. When I graded people I trained them to near exhaustion before grading cos I knew that's how you feel in a fight. Aikido trains short instinctive reactions. The thing I feel is almost the same as Judo: Ueshiba realised traditional training methods of aikijitsu wasn't great and developed a more fluid training method that took out lots of strikes/atemi. He even said 90% of aikido is atemi, BUT where is that trained? Ps Aikidoka don't really care about large demos events.
I feel ignoring jujitsu as in bjj being completely open to all wrist locks is a mistake. People lose to them and a lot of people feel they are unfair but they do get utilized and they aren’t utilized in high level jujitsu often at all. This is almost completely due to the difficulty of keeping the grips when someone is being very violent and the lack of vulnerability had in larger joint locks. I have used wrist locks in bjj and yeah they are very worth knowing, but more to gain position because people do comply before you lose grip. In bjj on top position people put there hands flat on your gi it’s an absolute dream scenario for outward turning wrist locks and if you want to break a wrist straight wrist locks. Those ones do really actually break wrists, when you push the palm into the chest.
yea Dan the wolfman has been doing all this stuff for years and has it documented on his channel. Plenty of clips of people resisting his aikido and failing.I also feel that a lot of the cons about aikido mentioned in this video have already been addressed by the really experienced practicioners, so its more of a matter of having good teachers or not.Just like most arts, no surprise there.@@IvanIsturiz
Interesting, food for thought, thanks for posting. Since sharing is caring not sure if you have come across Tim Cartmill but you might find his books of interest.
Yeah, I've read some of Time Cartmill's translations. I'm not sure if he's authored anything himself, but he is certainly on my radar. Unfortunately, my books are all packed up somewhere so I can't reference exactly what I've got. I definitely know I have the Effortless Throws book, which might be his own work. I've also got a volume on Chin Na and Shuai Jiao, respectively, which he translated.
@@TenguMartialArts Those were the ones I was thinking of. I'm in a similar situation regarding the books and access and it kind of sucks. Although I have found some benefit in trying to recall whatever it is that I'm trying to reference rather than simply reaching for the text.
As much as the Korean's hate it, some of Korea's core systems are also from the Japanese Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu branch. The Japanese really did industrialise the martial arts systems I'm afraid, like it or not. @Tengu, you mentioned that you are moving to Japan soon. I've only been to Japan once and I took the time to drive out to Ibaraki, the birthplace of Aikido. When you get to the original Dojo you will see a beautiful, well maintained, traditional building, quite amazing. Across the street you'll see the 'other' Aikido Federation and school of thought, A white industrial looking building with live in students. I can't remember the exact reason for the split, I think it had something to do with land ownership and the chosen successor (soke) to the system. It is so ridiculous to see personal interest and ego in martial arts, and I have never seen a more clear as day display than in Ibaraki. To you previous point, martial arts are first and foremost a business.
A point that you make I believe in all these videos and demonstrations is that the opponent is always reaching his arm out for the instructor to grab hold of. Obviously for demonstration, but also trying to mimic and attack my question though is have you considered their main objective in aikido is to learn how to focus on the lower point in the abdomen?
Aikido is not hollow, it is not a fighting technique for fighting, but it is a strategy against "FIGHTING" ! this art can be applied on every other martial techniques such as karate, muay boran, BJJ , judo boxing etc AIKIDO is for cleansing one's spirit from unreasonable, destructive and merciless violence , hence the techniques are just representative of this principle as oriented to a non-opponent. Techniques are taught for this purpose. AIKIDO IS NOT A SET OF FIGHTING TECHNIQUES BECAUSE THERE IS NO OPPONENT TO DESTROY. FIGHTING TECHNIQUES are the striking -(8 limbs + others) , grappling , throws that detroys an OPPONENT Many Aikido practioners and Fighters often confuse the meaning of the words "Art" and "Fighting Techniques" "Art" is a REPRESENTATION of scheme of "order" ,& ORGANIZED POSSIBILITY or form of fitness versus disorganized mess that is meant to be expressed or transmitted. Techniques are the ACTION for the ACCOMPLISHMENT OF A PURPOSE Martial Arts are the model display of organized possibilities like dancing, painting , scultpting of the principles of WAR , made for the purpose of expressing and teaching . Martial Techniques are the best actions to make in order to destroy an enemy. Martial Arts include the forms as taught in Karate, BJJ, Boxing , Muay T, FMA etc , especially AIKIDO. Martial Techniques are the movements that actually prevails over an opponet, for example : a front kick that lands on the head when the enemy launched a hook punch; or a knee to the chin as the enemy bend forward to BJJ grapple. Only MORONS will think that AIKIDO is a Fighting or Martial Technique. AIKIDO is a Martial Art , not a Fighting Technique. You dont see Aikido techniques in contact sports such as Boxing because that competition only brings unncessary brain injury , not worthy of human dignity and sanctity of life and that sports are limited by the RULES per organization. Aikido in boxing would mean running away , circling away, "WEAVING", deflecting punches , banging or sweeping the hips (aiki otoshi) of the opponent after weaving a punch , because the RULES wont allow it, and it is with other contact competetition like UFC. using Aiki principles (not Aikido) into a fighting techniques is called "AIKIJUTSU" not Aikido, hence a Boxing punch combination and a WEAVE is an AIKIJUTSU fight technique, so on and so forth. understanding with the true meaning of Aikido , so there should be no stupid opinions that aikido is a weak , ineffective , useless martial art in a fight situations . All martial arts are useless in fighting situations so therefor use "Fighting Techniques" in fight situations. Happy training , OSU !
I think the better word is high risk high reward. If you consider the reward to be causing the injury. And risk being the low chance of pulling it off.@@JustSomeGuy69420
@@JustSomeGuy69420low percentage means difficult to pull off or easy to block. High risk of injury means that if it gets pulled off, there's a higher chance of unintentionally damaging your training partner.
I seriously think Aikido is used all wrong.. & some moves are too extra but the style concept I believe to have some use in combat.. But it's used wrong & made extra continuesly.. I fully agree to add sweeps!!! The core principle came from sword fighting they realized that deflection was more efficient than blocking but as we all know blocks/checks can injure an attacker!! & exactly as you said it's best suited in the context of grappling where people have their arms out for the taking..
This reminds of what brought me to armwrestling: what would be,if you can imagine it,a good method to train these "dark arts" techniques? For Small Joints i was thinking tabletop,for biting i have no working theory.
I can remember, perhaps it was you, but someone recently commented on another video of mine about arm wrestling. I tend to agree with your notion here. If you wanted to very specifically train small joint-locks, I think a lot of the muscle groups that arm wrestlers train would have overlap. Pronation/supanation and grip strength are both what I'd probably spend time on.
@@TenguMartialArtsit was indeed me. My other theory for small joints and wrist locks is something akin to Sumo,where putting the guy on his knee(s) is enough to win,without needing of charging into it to complete the sub.
The issue isn't the techniques per se, it's the approach to training. If you never practice applying techniques against a resisting opponent it's very unlikely you'll be able to recognize openings to try for them, much less be able to execute them.
Very true. While it's possible to extract some value out of Aikido as it currently exists, I think arguing that it isn't pedagogically flawed is unsustainable at this point. Unless, of course, people want to lean into the aesthetics portion of training--which is fine, so long as folks aren't falsly advertising it as something else.
@@TenguMartialArts Unfortunately they do argue it's effectiveness. It's unfortunate because I find it interesting, but locked in a dormant state as it currently exists.
it must be difficult to have 1 instructor, and like 30 students, and if the students dont know what they are doing, then there cant be any hands on one another for a long time
This is a long time problem in martial arts in general that one day I plan to make a video on. Unfortunately, the economics of martial arts kind of demands more students, but that often leads to worse instruction (even if the instructor himself is excellent). There are ways around this, but it almost always comes at the cost of something on the instructor's end; be it time, money, or whatever else.
Rule #1: if you are within striking distance of me, I must have control of your weapon hand Rule#2: the entire time I have control of your weapon hand, I must be able to bail out of the technique at any moment, so that if another attacker comes, I can disengage with you and address the other threat. Rule #1 and #2 take priority over achieving a dominant position, because surviving the fight is more important than inflicting damage on your opponent. Inside any ring or competition, multiple attackers and surprise weapons appearances are not a concern. So doing aikido in these controlled environments is sacrificing efficiency and position to overcome obstacles that simply don't exist in that context.
On a more serious note, I think I have commented on your videos about this before, but I think a lot of techniques in aikido come from scenarios where you are carrying a weapon, and your opponent is trying to stop you from accessing it. So they have to give you their hands and elbows out of self-preservation against something worse (you pulling your sword out), and the techniques are there to free your weapon or weapon arm, and cast the opponent away from you where you can fully utilize the reach of said weapon. There seems to be some historical evidence for this, I have definitely seen aikido-like techniques used for exactly these purposes in weapons arts I have studied
I was ready to write almost the same thing when i saw your comment. I think that try to push small joint manipulation into a unarmed scenario is just like try to push a square into a round hole. Although i agree that theres is value in use it in order to achieve a superior position in unarmed duel.
At some point I'm going to get around to the weapons perspective on this. I just haven't yet. I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying and I'm also aware of other content creators who certainly argue similar things. From a strictly historical perspective, I'd even completely agree. My primary issues with this are really two-fold. The first is that I haven't really been adequately convinced that Aikido, as it currently exists, is all that great for weapons defense. On paper, yes, but just doing the old "marker as a knife" test reveals that even with these techniques, you're going to get very diced up. Now, I'm very willing to accept this could be a pedagogical issue--maybe if we trained with the knife more and regularly ran "marker tests" we would see survival rates increase drastically--I couldn't say. The second reason mostly has to do with marketing. It isn't something I *like* to engage in, but the reality is most people don't really care about weapons. Certainly not ones as culturally alien and archaic as the sword, but even more relevent weapons like the knife. When people do care about weapons they tend to gravitate towards arts that are much more overt about them; Iaido or a koryu, for example. This puts Aikido in a weird place where it's "for" weapons defense, but no one is actually all that good at weapons. For what its worth, this is an age-old criticism from even within mainstream Japanese Aikido organizations. So, even if we take the stance that Aikido is mostly designed as an answer for armed attackers, it really just means we have another set of pedagogical problems to address. Namely, how do we get people excited about this in an easy-to-understand way and how can we raise the proficiency of our weapons use? Ultimately, I think if we run with the premise that Aikido is formulated on the premise that it's a weapons defense system, then it needs to be internally producing great weapons practitioners. I'd argue that it isn't really doing that at the moment. For what its worth, I'm not really opposed to going that direction. At this point, I'm pretty much in support of going in *any* direction. But, again, the key is how we build that system and then how we grow it. I firmly believe that if we just take current Aikido and then ship it as is, we are bound to run into the same-old problems. (I'm also aware Shodokan Aikido *does* do a kind of knife-based randori, but even here I think the knife-side of the equation is pretty underdeveloped.)
@@TenguMartialArts I actually agree with you, aikido in my experience is terrible for weapon *defense*, pedagogical reasons or otherwise. I think the real issue is by nature an unarmed defense against an armed foe will be very low percentage - you will die either way, you might as well try something, as one of my sensei says. What I think aikido techniques come from and better suited for are to be used *by* the person with the weapon. So, you have a sword in your belt, and you get into an altercation and reach for your sword. Your opponent grabs your wrist to prevent you from drawing it, and that's when you use something like nikkyo or kotegaeshi (even maybe by using the sword hilt as leverage) to break their grip so you can draw your weapon. And not the other way around, for them to defend against you when you have your sword out and trying to cut them down. Does that make sense?
Awesome points. I think that thanks to content creators like you, we are reaching another level of discussion of Aikido issues. Great job! I would add yet that for General public, including most Aikido people, there is some dificulty to grasp the concept that Aikido is not all abbout wrist locks and tortions. But that is our fault as a community in comunicate properly tough. It comes in part from the fact that O'sensei was a great martial artist but looks like he did not care much about pedagogy. And that has never been propperly adressed since then.
27:28 Interesting … I’ve been told Aikido is a striking art and I would have to agree. Some atemi is obvious to me, but other strikes show up with a little coaching/practice. 😊
"Defending against this is easy" Yeap reminds me of a friend of mine back in highschool who enrolled in an Aikido Dojo. They had a training session where his opponent was trying to do a fancy leg sweep but he just countered with a simple basic move of "how about I just kick you in the face" When the instructor saw what he did and effectively mind you. He was told not to do that because that is not the principles of their dojo. After that he left and practiced a different martial arts
Aikido is comparable to Dumog. Aikido is an Atemi (striking) art according to Uesiba, Shioda, and Tomiki. Xingyiquan, Kali, and Boxing are the systems that enhanced my Aikido training the most. The cinco tersia are analogous to the strikes in Tankendo. Shomenate is angle 5, Yokomenuchi are angles 1 & 2; Do uchi munetsuki are angles 3 & 4.
I think Karl from the comments practices Aikido, can't quite put my finger on why I think that.. I just have a feeling on it. I have never practiced any form of Aikido for long periods of time, mostly some bits of it during some events here and there, however a guy I know is very "tribal" on it: for him it is equally as effective as other arts for self defense means and it is "much more complete" than many arts. Now, most of everything I know about anything in these topics comes from books or experience (and more recently these videos), but an expert is not required to say that maybe that's a stretch: I find it a beautiful art but not necessarily practiced for the same goals as other arts. Like you highlight in the first part: it's better to have a clear goal in mind when training, rather than believing whatever I am doing is the best thing ever. I have always seen aikido as a great starting point to know how to do a perfect "text-book" movement, because it looks like you could build on it rather than changing its core nature (like many techniques of other martial arts). So mastering aikido has it's perks, hidden to many (it may include me) but still clearly there. and of course yes, "womp womp" bjj-wrist-lock-yappers xD This time I recognise a background video for once! The first is Hiroshi Tada aikido event in the early 2000's, and if I am not mistaken have been in the very same gym for martial arts stages and demonstration event, unfortunately not done by master Hiroshi Tada but nonetheless very cool.
Yeah, I've spent a lot of time in Aikido and I've arrived at a similar conclusion to the Tomiki guys (albeit our solutions to problems diverge). Namely, its a great secondary art. To make a comparison, I'd consider Judo my "major" and Aikido my "minor" these days. Not a perfect analogy... I do striking arts, too, but I guess I'd consider that a second "major." I think the art deservedly earns a lot of the popular criticism, but as popular culture often does, I think it overcommits to this position. And yes! That is Tada Sensei in Italy, I believe--your timeframe sounds about right. I've never met the man himself and I suspect we'd probably disagree on a lot of things haha. But I have nothing but heartfelt respect for the guy. Imagine being 94 and still going out for demonstrations! That a lone is inspirational. Even at the time of my footage here, he was around 70. I'll be lucky if I'm not just waiting for death at that age--I hope to be training just as long as he is.
My biggest problem with Aikido has been listed here and others but its that Aikido techniques relies too much on fine motor skills and perfect positioning to work against a struggling opponent, most other grappling arts have a lot of grabs, throws and subs that can be a bit sloppy when you understand whats going on and they will still get the job done. I do like how Aikido handles breakfall training for newbies better then probably any other art ive trained in.
@@KarlKarsnark I am sorry if you felt offended by my comment, I tried to make a silly joke over the large quantity of your comments: they are filled with interesting takes, my intention was to highlight the fact that there were many of them (instead of just a long one) and it seemed funny to me. My intention was lighthearted fun, not trying to deminish your opinions on the matter. Indeed I never practiced any form of Aikido in a continuative manner, like I said I have read many books on the martial arts topic and also practiced aikido at some stages and events throughout my life. I also have friends who practice(d) this art and I have conversed with them on the matter various times. I wouldn't say my argument is invalid just because I don't have a master level on that art; I also said my view of the art is of a great base for other arts and people who practice it to a high level seem to understand movements and falls more deeply than me, which I believe is honourable in the martial arts community. My most "argument" phrase could be the fact that I referred to practitioners as "tribalistic" in their ways of talking and defending Aikido, both in real life and behind a screen, and one could argue any art has them: which is valid. I still believe it's a beautiful art nonetheless.
@@gerekgerek9042 yes indeed, I see your point. I also think that Aikido handles breakfall in a very good way: I think it should be implemented, even if just a little, in other arts as well; a more complete training is always better and more fun!
@@TenguMartialArts Indeed the pop-culture criticism is a bit overcommited on the Aikido side, it's a shame that almost anything has such extremism in pop-culture... I don't have a lot of time to spare these days but I hope that in the future I could focus on more than one art! I wonder what types of striking arts you have practiced, although you will probably talk about it in a future video I presume 👀
In terms of training for self-defense, I have an only partially tongue-in-cheek defense of the value of aikido: statistically, which self-defense skill is an average person more likely to use within their lifetime? The ability to win a street fight, or the ability to safely take a fall? 😜
So why did the Tokyo police force choose Aikido as their method of self defence, many yrs ago. Apparently Gozo Shioda, the famous Aikido master, his style was Yoshinkan Aikido. He was asked to teach the Tokyo police self-defence. Apparently at that time there was a lot of Female police officers in Tokyo police, and they needed a method that would work for them. Since the women police officers were mostly smaller than most males, they needed something that would work for them against larger and physically stronger opponents. So if Aikido isn't an effective method of self defence then why would the Tokyo police force teach it to their police officers for self defence purposes, I realise the training may have been a bit different to the normal training in the Aikido dojo, apparently it was more harder, a crash course. They had to learn the defence techniques proficiently, within a shorter time frame. But they said this Aikido would enable the women to defend themselves against larger and stronger opponents if necessary. So do you seriously think Japanese police would teach self defence techniques to their officers that don't work. And Aikido can be used against unarmed or armed attackers
This is so deep. When you get to Japan I hope you're in the Tokyo area. I'd really enjoy a chance to chat and would love to invite you to the dojo I train in. Something I think ties into what you've talked about in your video is that basically all the people that made aikido what it is were coming from other martial arts, like karate and judo. I just have so many thoughts I don't have anyone to bounce them off of very often that it would be great to just talk about. In general, thank you so much for your videos, your thoughts, and your insights.
@@TenguMartialArts that would be epic. I'll be available. Since you've lived here before I'm sure you know what you're doing but if you need a hand with something feel free to reach out. :)
Thank you for analysing Aikido with such intellectual honesty. Your connection between Aikido and striking arts is key here. Defeating tucked elbows isn't a problem because tucked elbows leave you open for strikes. This is also the explanation of why uke doesn't retract punches: the contact protects him from being hit. I suggest to study Aikido schools such as the Endo-shihan line to better understand the strategies of Aikido
also remember this arises from aiki ryu daito jitsu which was for samurai in battle who get disarmed and facing an armed opponent so their arm will be extended and not going to get retracted like modern unarmed competitions.
I think once you do a move many times, it will look fluid. I've used aikido effectively in the street, it never goes the way you think, but if you finish the intention of the move, it works too well, I almost killed a man, we had to revive him. Aikido is just aikijujitsu in disguise
A real fighter doesn't throw a haymaker punch while stepping forward with the same foot. Most of these flips and what not are happening bcuz the attacker is attacking in a way that nobody does. Lol I mean WHo comes at an opponent with their open hand outward stretched with a giant stride from the same foot?
Unfortunately, throughout the years, centuries. The martial arts focus and applications of techniques. And actual techniques have been intentionally hidden. Watered-down. Misinterpreted and poorly passed down in teaching. Once in a while, an instructor with superior understanding and discernment. Comes along. revealing actual techniques that work. But very few and far between. Fortunately, now the internet has allowed for wide revelations. But it brings with it equaling confusing nonsensical garbage. Being a lifetime martial artist and instructor-school owner. I've seen alot of bullshido. Finally, if you can destroy the small joints. Aka the fingers. Small foot bones. This will incapacitate your opponent. Unfortunately it is a small percentage move. Meaning it's less available than the punches or kicks. Most commonly experienced. But ultimately, the true martial artist trains in all areas. Not just a nitch area of focus. So one must cross train. In as many martial arts as possible. To effectively develop our whole martial arts abilities.
Aikido originally was an art for a passive as possible response to an armed attacker. Armed with the sword or staff possibly. It was intended to quickly resolve the altercation. Into a submission. With degrees of violence. Joint dislocation or bone breaks. Never ending in death. That's why it was called, the gentle martial art. It didn't have many hand striking or kicking. It's still an extremely useful art for today's use. If applying to weapons retention in the police or concealed weapons users. Wanting to retain their weapon without drawing it. To use maximum force. Using the least destructive force as possible.
I've studied Aikido for years even trained the class under my sensei. Aikido is very real it's just that if you are trying to apply the techniques in everyday life you have to not make it choreographed. Well that goes for any martial art. Although Aikido is truly based on evading and wrist locks in a split second to take uke balance and flip them. Truly no strength is needed just technique understanding of the human body and gravity. Now that's why others don't think it works although ninja knew the same art although it might be a change in the variant, but the same ideals. The lack of knowledge in the western world breeds many fools. Research is needed to grow.
The only real "Aikido is the best!" cane from white people. The Japanese just practise it quietly. We had white Aikido guys come into our school and say, we do it this way, that way. Dude this is JUJUTSU! We break arms, we don't dance. I've done some Judo before I did jujutsu and even Judo has some "illegal" throws because they were the ones more prone to cause injury. So now you have Aikido without some wrist locks, Judo without some throws. I did take some Aikido but that was a very short time as I have no interest in an art that needs the attacker to hang on to you even though you have not locked his grip down. In life, use everything you have,m wrist locks, 2on1, Seven Star, it is all grappling. When learning old school Japanese arts you need to be clear with what was done on/with armour and what was done on a clothes body.
It came from ikijujsu a hard style a combative art aikido is soft style and hapkido is hard style they added tang soo do karate attacks to make it more efficient bjj is losing its stand up game self defense and combative war . Love all jujitsu Bruce Lee liked it and tested it out be like water my friend
31:29 had goofed around with some in BJJ, I did brute force sankyo to a person who wanted to do rear naked choke, and single hand nikyo is nice for releasing arm grabs from any positions
@@TenguMartialArts maybe i'll try to adapt iriminage and handgrab+kaiten on wrestling/standing bjj roll if i have the chance to do it again. Training aiki on muaythai clinch and leg throws seems interesting, too. I have more training experiences in muaythai more than bjj, but ironically my kickboxing sparring exp is very lacking compared to bjj which i've just learned to do
First hit (atemi) and then execute the lock, this is how it really works and its the base of original Jujutsu.
Both Judo and Aikido (and Brazilian Judo/BJJ) forgot this canon.
Sort of a video in the works on this now. Sport has kind of got us all primed to think in very strict terms of "stand up grappling," "ground grappling," and "striking" has fixed, immutable phases. MMA somewhat solves this, but I'd argue even in MMA (at least at the moment) there isn't as much clinch-striking as I'd expect. I have an aching suspicion that its just not taught in America much. Even Muay Thai gyms in the States have a tendency to neglect the clinch from what I've heard around.
@@TenguMartialArts Muay Thai was never big in USA anyway :)
@@vasileios6301It was bigger than Aikido atleast.
I appreciate your opinions and expression of them.
I must assume that there is a good reason you omitted the following unique aspects of Aikido;
Potentially fast paced, constant change of partners, dynamic crowd awareness, constant controlled stretching and the ability to modulate for physical condition.
Also having a nearly 70 year old 5'-2" woman punctuate a struggle impasse with an effective head butt, last week, is both humbling and illustrates the versatility of the art.
No Injuries Train Hard Have Fun
yoga, taichi, qigong or any softgym keep you healthy too. Aikido is dying by is own failure. RIP.
Excellent video. I agree with all of your observations. I've studied Aikido and Japanese Jiu-jitsu for two decades and run across all of these issues. There are so.e really cool techniques within Aikido, but many of them are delicate and require excellent timing. I use them within a broader framework of Jiu-jitsu to keep things more practical. No question there is value there. Your i sights are spot on.
The Russian pull off the collar and elbow tie up transitioning to a two on one or a two on one universal arm control, is where Aikido can be applied with resistance.
Aikido cannot work with a wrist control being just a wrist control it has to turn into a take down almost immediately after twisting the wrist.
Studied a few arts over the years. I tried Aikido. Honestly the King of supplemental and secondary arts.
Ueshiba's opposition to make a modern sport out of Aikido from the very start, and then his post war attitudes towards violence + his wishes of independency from the supervision of US occupation forces shaped it all. A quick look into his bio is very useful to all. The aesthetic showcase that Aikido is today may have his roots on Ueshiba's traditionalist politics and philosophy. I agree with you that there's nothing wrong with that. In order to keep in touch with his convictions, Ueshiba may have choose to "limit" himself to a soft discipline.
After all, he didn't need to keep fighting by then. Nice video!
More like his fanatic religious and ultraright wing iews
Well, yeah, I thought it was common knowledge that Ueshiba didn't intend for Aikido to be a fighting art? That's why he created it, to be different from Aikijujutsu. Also, I understand that he also had a black belt in Kano Jujutsu.
Correct because he had seen the pettines and sickness of violence in a peaceful community.
His early teachings before world war 2 is mostly aikijutsu, not Aikido.
Aikido is a name given by the Nippon Botukukai to a peaceful harmonious merciful martial art which the AIKIKAI and Tohei's Ki Soceity is propagating today ( the modifications of Morihei as he had grown weary of being the strongest fighter as being the strongest "fighter" is worthless in the end).
other dojo such as Yoshinkan and Yoseikan are Aikijutsu variants and does not mind mixing it with strikes or grappling , in the same way as its father fighting technique : Daito Aikijutsu.
Aikido is a spiritual martial art but is very essential & important to live a peaceful happy life.
he never did it.
In any case, not like you see today.
He was highly competitive.
The image for business of Morihei Ueshiba really doesn t represent him.
@@leusmaximusx unfortunately, quite the opposite.
His disciples did it, for different reasons.
I've never done Aikido nor any East Asian martial art yet I highly enjoy these videos and your perspective on things. There is a universality to fighting where I feel like they're still very profitable in terms of information, and I really like the philosophy. Seeing things from the TMA's side is refreshing. Also niche historical topics hits my sweet spot just right, so I'm exited for you to talk more about that. Hope you make more of these, mate!
I appreciate that you appreciate it! I think TMA get kind of a bad rap. Some of the criticism is well-deserved, but I'm not a big fan of the black-and-white narrative that often gets presented. There will definitely be more to come!
Down to earth, no bullshit video. Congrats from a Kyokushin practitioner.
I agree with the tucked elbow stuff. I Wrestled in HS. Wrestling and similar grappling systems can jam up Aikido. In fact Wrestling like systems also jam up striking heavy systems.
Study some wrestling or a similar system to improve yourself.
"Arguments that follow 'this art' around like flies on poop..." Hahaha, I like that.
You have to spend a loooong time observing poop to be able to know that flies fly around poop.
That is complete but very common misunderstanding of Aikido to speak about locks as of its primary principle.
As a former Aikido student turned BJJ practicioner, I appreciate your content because you helped me find certain things I learned in the past that works really well in a BJJ scenario. Looking forward to more insights.
The more martial versions of 'Aikido' already exist and are the predecessors of current forms of Iwama/ Shingu/ Yoshikan, et al. Most notably, where a lot of Aikido techniques originate from; Daito-ryu aiki-jujutsu. I've also heard the pre-war era 'Aikido' referred to as Aiki-Budo or aiki-jujutsu. So you can go very martial, right back to the battlefield jujutsu of the Takeda clan, but you get further from 'The Way' of O'Sensei's Aikido. I think they should all be practiced and preserved.
I’ve mentioned this in the other videos on aikido but I think the weapons context makes way more sense than the empty handed. Where I do see empty handed stuff come out is in sumo. A wonderful mix of striking and grappling with pace.
I thought shomen ate was a joke move until watching sumo.
But seriously again, I tend to agree with chris hein. Lots of moves are just grip breaks or moves to retain mobility and autonomy rather than control.
This video was such a detailed analysis of Aikido techniques and the bullshit opinions surrounding them on both sides. I love your videos because you have such a measured and thoughtful take on all the topics you cover. Keep up the amazing work ❤
I train in a style of jiu-jitsu where we pressure test a lot of aikido and judo techniques in a non-competitive (but still combative) setting. Joint manipulations can be weak on their own, but in my experience your analysis rings true: combining them with striking and good balance taking gives you so many more options to set up other techniques. There’s no black magic- they’re not going to destroy someone in a single move - but they can also be effective and we need more people experimenting with them to expand our understanding of these techniques.
Thanks! I work hard to strike that balance. I think there is a gigantic void in terms of measured perspectives in the Aikido world. Everyone is so polarized and, honestly, I don't think it helps anyone's position, either. You just end up coming off as rude or confrotation or a fanatic. It's not really a good look for either side of the arguement in my humble opinion.
And yes, absolutely. I've been goofing with some sweeps to set up some manipulations recently. It's always kind of tough to properly train the strikes, though. Often strikers don't want to get locked or worry about a clinch in general, so a lot of this is often times about finding like-minded people to train with.
From someone whose main art is kung fu (a mix of a handfull of styles) I have found that being creative and thoughtfull is a must if you want to make sense of the weird stuff eastern arts often present to you. As long as you abide by the core principles of combat and biomechanics, creativity and freedom to experiment can only lead you to good results wether you find a good aplication or gain insight on why it would be better to do something else, but know you know it without discarding stuff without ever really trying, like so many people tend to do with TMA nowadays.
Now, more video specific, in kung fu we have "qing na" which is stand up grappling, but more focused on locks and breaks more than taking people down like aikido does.
My experience when trying to apply them in a non cooperative practice is just like you said, if both of you focus on only trying to qing na each other and both know the techniques, it's a lot of hand fighting and struggling than most of the time does not go anywhere, even when you mix it in with other elements like striking, only very situationally I have been able to pull some off. That's either because our grappling is not very good since we are a striking focused art, or many of the techniques are as you noted, all or nothing and it's mostly imposible to do them in a controlled manner without risk of injury for any of the practitioners.
As always, amazing content! I can experientially confirm the usefulness of aikido technique in hand fighting. I practice Sumo and have found some useful things from aikido that have helped get better positioning. I’m only 155lbs so I really need some tricky grappling to keep up with much heavier guys.
You see a lot of “aikido” in sumo. The mix of striking and grappling make it come out in a really cool way
Where do you practice sumo?
@@olegajitsu USA, Houston Tx, Shogeki is the club name.
Check out Professor James Hundon based in San Francisco. He has successfully integrated small joint locks into a truly self defense oriented martial art. Also, wrist locks can be applied slow on the ground like any other lock if the opponent is properly controlled. I find them often. Standing wrist locks are indeed difficult, but an Aikido practitioner would learn to find them in the proper training environment. Just my quick thoughts. Good topic. Thanks!
The traditional martial arts are all walled gardens. “This is too dangerous to spar” is code for “you should pick another gym.”
😂👍🏽
I assume that the big issue here is that small joint manipulation fits better in armed scenarios. I think that try to push small joint manipulation into a unarmed scenario is just like try to push a square into a round hole. Although i agree that theres is value in use it in order to achieve a superior position in unarmed duel.
Thank you this video opened my mind to the fact that judo and jiu jitsu are in fact neglecting a set of techniques. However, it's waaay easier to teach a judo/bjj/wrestler/boxer guy the aikido techniques and have them be proficient than it is to have an aikido practicioner master their own techniques. Simply because they lack sparring.
My hope is that bjj rules get tweaked a bit to encourage more standing game. Then, hopefully judo, wrestling and even aikido can shine in competition.
If you wanna knownwhat wristlocks would look in sparring, check tomiki aikido or shodokan aikido... It looks super sloppy but at least they do the techniques... I wonder if it could be added back into judo...
I'm an admirer of Shodokan's stuff. I think the conclusions we've arrived at are more or less the same, but our solutions are different. At this point, I'd like to see the techniques and things they do re-implanted into a Judo-esque format. Again, I'm an admirer of what they have going on, but I agree their sparring is a bit... unsophisticated. Arbitrarily limiting, even.
4:02 I think part of the “too dangerous” conversation that I thought of recently with Judo was that when early judo was having competitions with other jujutsu ryu to establish itself, it was better for them to focus the ruleset of the competition on things that they were best at i.e. throwing techniques.
Many Other jujutsu styles of the time focused on locks and strikes so if judo fought them there then there was more of a chance for defeat. Kind of like how the Gracie’s came up with their own fighting ruleset that favored them (that took away all the ways they could lose) and then issued challenges that were stacked in their favor. Not saying that judo likely wasn’t the most effective combination of jujutsu styles but the way the competitions were set up then it would have been hard to beat them.
Alligato sempai !! 🙏🫡👍👏👏.
Please explore and analyse :
1. Nishio sensei Aikido.
2. Léo Tamaki (french sensei) Aikido.
I would appreciate your light on these two particuliar way of understand Aikido.
I use aikido joint lock a lot in my job without hurting individual. But the rest is useless. 😂.
I’ll have to take a peek :)
Yeah I’ve heard this story many times haha. I’ve had friends who use the stuff in police work and bouncing, but outside of those niches it kind of falls apart
There's a major issue here about small joint locks that needs to be brought up at some point. Traditional martial artists were often bone setters in Japan. A big break is far easier to set than a small one. Your arm has a certain number of large relatively straight bones in it. A 19th century osteopath could splint and treat a fracture. Smaller bones like those of the wrist area break in surprising ways. They don't always heal well either. Old time senseis were thinking, "If he breaks an arm, I can fix it. If he breaks a wrist, he might be handicapped for life."
This isn't "the reason". Just another ingredient in the soup. Still, this seemed like a good video to mention it on.
33:23 I knew it!! 😂😂😂wah wah
So you're saying... I should do Aikido in conjunction with Judo to reach a greater level of skill? You got it.
@@KarlKarsnark I will, thanks, I was really bored, it should be a nice change of pace to study these great Judokas.😅
That's pretty much my argument. Especially if there aren't any shifts in Aikido internally.
Good thing that both my aikido and karate instructors are also judoka's
Nice. Well thought out and delivered. I do Goju, and while I love the style and will practice it as taught, there are times I just think "why would you do that complicated move when you could just punch him in the face?" And *every* style has at least a few of those moves.
But the flip side is, if you take out all the "pretty" moves and only do the basics, you end up with krav maga (sp?) or some such. And that's fine too, if that's what you want. But I like Goju and I choose to learn ITS foolish moves.
Latch on to it like a dead fish😂
Funny enough, Judo was primarily made for self-defense. Made to throw, pin, submit, takedown and more.
And Kano’s books made that perfect clear.
“Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and when attacked, defend yourself.”
A direct quote from Kano himself.
All the techniques of Judo work so well in self-defense and since it began and onwards that was the primary reason to learn it. But sports was not even on Kano’s mind. Yes, he wanted it safe for competition use to help develop a mindset to win. However, he never wanted it to be trained as a sport.
Agreed. I have a script in half-production somewhere that talks a bit about Kano's ideas on sport. I don't know where on my hard drive it is, but his views and mine more or less align. I'm not opposed to competition, really, but I think its become more about "winning" than being a better version of yourself. Which is a shame.
I think the main issue is that people see all techniques the same. Some techniques (like wrist locks) are only really possible in a preamble to a fight, afterwards (arresting), when you initiate a fight (which is hilarious, considering Aikido’s pacifist nature), and/or when you have multiple people. This makes sense for Samurai, since you had low level police samurai, high level samurai diplomats, etc and these techniques would be perfect for them. But would be mostly useless to a bushi battlefield samurai.
Once you’re in an actual engagement, it’s low percentage technique.
These arts are supposed to be for self defence, they're supposed to be defensive not offensive. Usually it's only muggars etc that go around attacking people. There is no first attack. I think the idea of Aikido is to take the opponents balance, use gravity to do the work. Perhaps when o sensei said if you attack him you are going against the universe, he meant the universal force of gravity. Once you've lost your balance you can't really do anything
And there is a style of Aikido that does competitions, it's called Tomiki Aikido, I think that's close to the correct spelling
@@fredatlas4396 Aikido comes from AikiJujutsu and that's what the samurai would have used. AikiJujutsu doesn't have a pacifist mindset of self defense.
@@TheCCBoi I think you are confused, in traditional Karate-Do and Aikido there is no first attack, Aikido not Aiki jutsu. Of course when training someone has to be the attacker, otherwise how would you practice defending yourself against an attacker. But practitioners of these Budo arts don't go around attacking people or mugging anyone. In order to reach a high level of skill it requires many hours, years of training, practice and with this comes self discipline and self control which enables them to control their emotions, anger etc. In Japanese there is the saying, Karate ni sente nashi, there is no first attack in Karate, and Karate wa kunshi no bugei, Karate is the martial art of inteligente people. The founder of Aikido was a profoundly spiritual person, he practised some Shinto practices and Zen
Problem with Aikido is its trainees. So many ignore fitness and strength and conditioning training, but Ueshiba was well known to do this. I did for 20 years, and indeed taught it. Like u say, the techniques are the same as other martial arts. Personally, I think sparring is not the basis for good self defense.. it tends to formalise tentative movements to read opponent, and to work within rules. I've been in lots of fights, and fundamentally it is about fast and aggressive movements in an unpredictable environment. When I graded people I trained them to near exhaustion before grading cos I knew that's how you feel in a fight. Aikido trains short instinctive reactions. The thing I feel is almost the same as Judo: Ueshiba realised traditional training methods of aikijitsu wasn't great and developed a more fluid training method that took out lots of strikes/atemi. He even said 90% of aikido is atemi, BUT where is that trained? Ps Aikidoka don't really care about large demos events.
I feel ignoring jujitsu as in bjj being completely open to all wrist locks is a mistake. People lose to them and a lot of people feel they are unfair but they do get utilized and they aren’t utilized in high level jujitsu often at all. This is almost completely due to the difficulty of keeping the grips when someone is being very violent and the lack of vulnerability had in larger joint locks. I have used wrist locks in bjj and yeah they are very worth knowing, but more to gain position because people do comply before you lose grip.
In bjj on top position people put there hands flat on your gi it’s an absolute dream scenario for outward turning wrist locks and if you want to break a wrist straight wrist locks. Those ones do really actually break wrists, when you push the palm into the chest.
a lot of ko-ryu is exactly what you are describing around 19:00
The martial arts journey guy has done a decent job doing similar innovation. He pulls kotegaish from the opponents a collar tie.
Dan Wolfman Theodore on MMA and Bruce Bookman with boxing would be my recommendation, as they have more and earlier experience
yea Dan the wolfman has been doing all this stuff for years and has it documented on his channel. Plenty of clips of people resisting his aikido and failing.I also feel that a lot of the cons about aikido mentioned in this video have already been addressed by the really experienced practicioners, so its more of a matter of having good teachers or not.Just like most arts, no surprise there.@@IvanIsturiz
Interesting, food for thought, thanks for posting. Since sharing is caring not sure if you have come across Tim Cartmill but you might find his books of interest.
Yeah, I've read some of Time Cartmill's translations. I'm not sure if he's authored anything himself, but he is certainly on my radar. Unfortunately, my books are all packed up somewhere so I can't reference exactly what I've got. I definitely know I have the Effortless Throws book, which might be his own work. I've also got a volume on Chin Na and Shuai Jiao, respectively, which he translated.
@@TenguMartialArts Those were the ones I was thinking of. I'm in a similar situation regarding the books and access and it kind of sucks. Although I have found some benefit in trying to recall whatever it is that I'm trying to reference rather than simply reaching for the text.
I'd love to hear your analysis on shuai jiao.
As much as the Korean's hate it, some of Korea's core systems are also from the Japanese Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu branch. The Japanese really did industrialise the martial arts systems I'm afraid, like it or not. @Tengu, you mentioned that you are moving to Japan soon. I've only been to Japan once and I took the time to drive out to Ibaraki, the birthplace of Aikido. When you get to the original Dojo you will see a beautiful, well maintained, traditional building, quite amazing. Across the street you'll see the 'other' Aikido Federation and school of thought, A white industrial looking building with live in students. I can't remember the exact reason for the split, I think it had something to do with land ownership and the chosen successor (soke) to the system. It is so ridiculous to see personal interest and ego in martial arts, and I have never seen a more clear as day display than in Ibaraki. To you previous point, martial arts are first and foremost a business.
A point that you make I believe in all these videos and demonstrations is that the opponent is always reaching his arm out for the instructor to grab hold of. Obviously for demonstration, but also trying to mimic and attack my question though is have you considered their main objective in aikido is to learn how to focus on the lower point in the abdomen?
Aikido is not hollow, it is not a fighting technique for fighting, but it is a strategy against "FIGHTING" !
this art can be applied on every other martial techniques such as karate, muay boran, BJJ , judo boxing etc
AIKIDO is for cleansing one's spirit from unreasonable, destructive and merciless violence , hence the techniques are just representative of this principle as oriented to a non-opponent. Techniques are taught for this purpose.
AIKIDO IS NOT A SET OF FIGHTING TECHNIQUES BECAUSE THERE IS NO OPPONENT TO DESTROY.
FIGHTING TECHNIQUES are the striking -(8 limbs + others) , grappling , throws that detroys an OPPONENT
Many Aikido practioners and Fighters often confuse the meaning of the words "Art" and "Fighting Techniques"
"Art" is a REPRESENTATION of scheme of "order" ,& ORGANIZED POSSIBILITY or form of fitness versus disorganized mess that is meant to be expressed or transmitted.
Techniques are the ACTION for the ACCOMPLISHMENT OF A PURPOSE
Martial Arts are the model display of organized possibilities like dancing, painting , scultpting of the principles of WAR , made for the purpose of expressing and teaching .
Martial Techniques are the best actions to make in order to destroy an enemy.
Martial Arts include the forms as taught in Karate, BJJ, Boxing , Muay T, FMA etc , especially AIKIDO.
Martial Techniques are the movements that actually prevails over an opponet, for example : a front kick that lands on the head when the enemy launched a hook punch; or a knee to the chin as the enemy bend forward to BJJ grapple.
Only MORONS will think that AIKIDO is a Fighting or Martial Technique. AIKIDO is a Martial Art , not a Fighting Technique.
You dont see Aikido techniques in contact sports such as Boxing because that competition only brings unncessary brain injury , not worthy of human dignity and sanctity of life and that sports are limited by the RULES per organization.
Aikido in boxing would mean running away , circling away, "WEAVING", deflecting punches , banging or sweeping the hips (aiki otoshi) of the opponent after weaving a punch , because the RULES wont allow it, and it is with other contact competetition like UFC.
using Aiki principles (not Aikido) into a fighting techniques is called "AIKIJUTSU" not Aikido, hence a Boxing punch combination and a WEAVE is an AIKIJUTSU fight technique, so on and so forth.
understanding with the true meaning of Aikido ,
so there should be no stupid opinions that aikido is a weak , ineffective , useless martial art in a fight situations .
All martial arts are useless in fighting situations so therefor use "Fighting Techniques" in fight situations.
Happy training , OSU !
Could it be that small joint locks were removed from judo because they were low percentage and more likely to cause injury
low percentage...likely to cause injury...pick one...
I think the better word is high risk high reward. If you consider the reward to be causing the injury. And risk being the low chance of pulling it off.@@JustSomeGuy69420
@@JustSomeGuy69420low percentage means difficult to pull off or easy to block. High risk of injury means that if it gets pulled off, there's a higher chance of unintentionally damaging your training partner.
I seriously think Aikido is used all wrong.. & some moves are too extra but the style concept I believe to have some use in combat.. But it's used wrong & made extra continuesly.. I fully agree to add sweeps!!! The core principle came from sword fighting they realized that deflection was more efficient than blocking but as we all know blocks/checks can injure an attacker!! & exactly as you said it's best suited in the context of grappling where people have their arms out for the taking..
This reminds of what brought me to armwrestling: what would be,if you can imagine it,a good method to train these "dark arts" techniques?
For Small Joints i was thinking tabletop,for biting i have no working theory.
I can remember, perhaps it was you, but someone recently commented on another video of mine about arm wrestling. I tend to agree with your notion here. If you wanted to very specifically train small joint-locks, I think a lot of the muscle groups that arm wrestlers train would have overlap. Pronation/supanation and grip strength are both what I'd probably spend time on.
@@TenguMartialArtsit was indeed me.
My other theory for small joints and wrist locks is something akin to Sumo,where putting the guy on his knee(s) is enough to win,without needing of charging into it to complete the sub.
Opinions on Leo Tamaki's style.
wow, a little bit of knowledge really is a dangerous thing....or at least of an unfortunate thing
The issue isn't the techniques per se, it's the approach to training. If you never practice applying techniques against a resisting opponent it's very unlikely you'll be able to recognize openings to try for them, much less be able to execute them.
Very true. While it's possible to extract some value out of Aikido as it currently exists, I think arguing that it isn't pedagogically flawed is unsustainable at this point. Unless, of course, people want to lean into the aesthetics portion of training--which is fine, so long as folks aren't falsly advertising it as something else.
@@TenguMartialArts Unfortunately they do argue it's effectiveness. It's unfortunate because I find it interesting, but locked in a dormant state as it currently exists.
it must be difficult to have 1 instructor, and like 30 students, and if the students dont know what they are doing, then there cant be any hands on one another for a long time
This is a long time problem in martial arts in general that one day I plan to make a video on. Unfortunately, the economics of martial arts kind of demands more students, but that often leads to worse instruction (even if the instructor himself is excellent). There are ways around this, but it almost always comes at the cost of something on the instructor's end; be it time, money, or whatever else.
Aikido is for not getting stabbed
Rule #1: if you are within striking distance of me, I must have control of your weapon hand
Rule#2: the entire time I have control of your weapon hand, I must be able to bail out of the technique at any moment, so that if another attacker comes, I can disengage with you and address the other threat.
Rule #1 and #2 take priority over achieving a dominant position, because surviving the fight is more important than inflicting damage on your opponent.
Inside any ring or competition, multiple attackers and surprise weapons appearances are not a concern. So doing aikido in these controlled environments is sacrificing efficiency and position to overcome obstacles that simply don't exist in that context.
On a more serious note, I think I have commented on your videos about this before, but I think a lot of techniques in aikido come from scenarios where you are carrying a weapon, and your opponent is trying to stop you from accessing it. So they have to give you their hands and elbows out of self-preservation against something worse (you pulling your sword out), and the techniques are there to free your weapon or weapon arm, and cast the opponent away from you where you can fully utilize the reach of said weapon. There seems to be some historical evidence for this, I have definitely seen aikido-like techniques used for exactly these purposes in weapons arts I have studied
I was ready to write almost the same thing when i saw your comment. I think that try to push small joint manipulation into a unarmed scenario is just like try to push a square into a round hole. Although i agree that theres is value in use it in order to achieve a superior position in unarmed duel.
At some point I'm going to get around to the weapons perspective on this. I just haven't yet.
I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying and I'm also aware of other content creators who certainly argue similar things. From a strictly historical perspective, I'd even completely agree.
My primary issues with this are really two-fold. The first is that I haven't really been adequately convinced that Aikido, as it currently exists, is all that great for weapons defense. On paper, yes, but just doing the old "marker as a knife" test reveals that even with these techniques, you're going to get very diced up. Now, I'm very willing to accept this could be a pedagogical issue--maybe if we trained with the knife more and regularly ran "marker tests" we would see survival rates increase drastically--I couldn't say.
The second reason mostly has to do with marketing. It isn't something I *like* to engage in, but the reality is most people don't really care about weapons. Certainly not ones as culturally alien and archaic as the sword, but even more relevent weapons like the knife. When people do care about weapons they tend to gravitate towards arts that are much more overt about them; Iaido or a koryu, for example. This puts Aikido in a weird place where it's "for" weapons defense, but no one is actually all that good at weapons. For what its worth, this is an age-old criticism from even within mainstream Japanese Aikido organizations.
So, even if we take the stance that Aikido is mostly designed as an answer for armed attackers, it really just means we have another set of pedagogical problems to address. Namely, how do we get people excited about this in an easy-to-understand way and how can we raise the proficiency of our weapons use? Ultimately, I think if we run with the premise that Aikido is formulated on the premise that it's a weapons defense system, then it needs to be internally producing great weapons practitioners. I'd argue that it isn't really doing that at the moment.
For what its worth, I'm not really opposed to going that direction. At this point, I'm pretty much in support of going in *any* direction. But, again, the key is how we build that system and then how we grow it. I firmly believe that if we just take current Aikido and then ship it as is, we are bound to run into the same-old problems.
(I'm also aware Shodokan Aikido *does* do a kind of knife-based randori, but even here I think the knife-side of the equation is pretty underdeveloped.)
@@TenguMartialArts I actually agree with you, aikido in my experience is terrible for weapon *defense*, pedagogical reasons or otherwise. I think the real issue is by nature an unarmed defense against an armed foe will be very low percentage - you will die either way, you might as well try something, as one of my sensei says.
What I think aikido techniques come from and better suited for are to be used *by* the person with the weapon. So, you have a sword in your belt, and you get into an altercation and reach for your sword. Your opponent grabs your wrist to prevent you from drawing it, and that's when you use something like nikkyo or kotegaeshi (even maybe by using the sword hilt as leverage) to break their grip so you can draw your weapon. And not the other way around, for them to defend against you when you have your sword out and trying to cut them down. Does that make sense?
Awesome points. I think that thanks to content creators like you, we are reaching another level of discussion of Aikido issues. Great job! I would add yet that for General public, including most Aikido people, there is some dificulty to grasp the concept that Aikido is not all abbout wrist locks and tortions. But that is our fault as a community in comunicate properly tough. It comes in part from the fact that O'sensei was a great martial artist but looks like he did not care much about pedagogy. And that has never been propperly adressed since then.
27:28 Interesting … I’ve been told Aikido is a striking art and I would have to agree. Some atemi is obvious to me, but other strikes show up with a little coaching/practice. 😊
"Defending against this is easy"
Yeap reminds me of a friend of mine back in highschool who enrolled in an Aikido Dojo.
They had a training session where his opponent was trying to do a fancy leg sweep but he just countered with a simple basic move of "how about I just kick you in the face"
When the instructor saw what he did and effectively mind you. He was told not to do that because that is not the principles of their dojo.
After that he left and practiced a different martial arts
Aikido is comparable to Dumog. Aikido is an Atemi (striking) art according to Uesiba, Shioda, and Tomiki. Xingyiquan, Kali, and Boxing are the systems that enhanced my Aikido training the most. The cinco tersia are analogous to the strikes in Tankendo. Shomenate is angle 5, Yokomenuchi are angles 1 & 2; Do uchi munetsuki are angles 3 & 4.
I think Karl from the comments practices Aikido, can't quite put my finger on why I think that.. I just have a feeling on it.
I have never practiced any form of Aikido for long periods of time, mostly some bits of it during some events here and there, however a guy I know is very "tribal" on it: for him it is equally as effective as other arts for self defense means and it is "much more complete" than many arts.
Now, most of everything I know about anything in these topics comes from books or experience (and more recently these videos), but an expert is not required to say that maybe that's a stretch: I find it a beautiful art but not necessarily practiced for the same goals as other arts.
Like you highlight in the first part: it's better to have a clear goal in mind when training, rather than believing whatever I am doing is the best thing ever.
I have always seen aikido as a great starting point to know how to do a perfect "text-book" movement, because it looks like you could build on it rather than changing its core nature (like many techniques of other martial arts). So mastering aikido has it's perks, hidden to many (it may include me) but still clearly there.
and of course yes, "womp womp" bjj-wrist-lock-yappers xD
This time I recognise a background video for once! The first is Hiroshi Tada aikido event in the early 2000's, and if I am not mistaken have been in the very same gym for martial arts stages and demonstration event, unfortunately not done by master Hiroshi Tada but nonetheless very cool.
Yeah, I've spent a lot of time in Aikido and I've arrived at a similar conclusion to the Tomiki guys (albeit our solutions to problems diverge). Namely, its a great secondary art. To make a comparison, I'd consider Judo my "major" and Aikido my "minor" these days. Not a perfect analogy... I do striking arts, too, but I guess I'd consider that a second "major." I think the art deservedly earns a lot of the popular criticism, but as popular culture often does, I think it overcommits to this position.
And yes! That is Tada Sensei in Italy, I believe--your timeframe sounds about right. I've never met the man himself and I suspect we'd probably disagree on a lot of things haha. But I have nothing but heartfelt respect for the guy. Imagine being 94 and still going out for demonstrations! That a lone is inspirational. Even at the time of my footage here, he was around 70. I'll be lucky if I'm not just waiting for death at that age--I hope to be training just as long as he is.
My biggest problem with Aikido has been listed here and others but its that Aikido techniques relies too much on fine motor skills and perfect positioning to work against a struggling opponent, most other grappling arts have a lot of grabs, throws and subs that can be a bit sloppy when you understand whats going on and they will still get the job done. I do like how Aikido handles breakfall training for newbies better then probably any other art ive trained in.
@@KarlKarsnark I am sorry if you felt offended by my comment, I tried to make a silly joke over the large quantity of your comments: they are filled with interesting takes, my intention was to highlight the fact that there were many of them (instead of just a long one) and it seemed funny to me. My intention was lighthearted fun, not trying to deminish your opinions on the matter.
Indeed I never practiced any form of Aikido in a continuative manner, like I said I have read many books on the martial arts topic and also practiced aikido at some stages and events throughout my life. I also have friends who practice(d) this art and I have conversed with them on the matter various times.
I wouldn't say my argument is invalid just because I don't have a master level on that art; I also said my view of the art is of a great base for other arts and people who practice it to a high level seem to understand movements and falls more deeply than me, which I believe is honourable in the martial arts community.
My most "argument" phrase could be the fact that I referred to practitioners as "tribalistic" in their ways of talking and defending Aikido, both in real life and behind a screen, and one could argue any art has them: which is valid. I still believe it's a beautiful art nonetheless.
@@gerekgerek9042 yes indeed, I see your point. I also think that Aikido handles breakfall in a very good way: I think it should be implemented, even if just a little, in other arts as well; a more complete training is always better and more fun!
@@TenguMartialArts Indeed the pop-culture criticism is a bit overcommited on the Aikido side, it's a shame that almost anything has such extremism in pop-culture...
I don't have a lot of time to spare these days but I hope that in the future I could focus on more than one art!
I wonder what types of striking arts you have practiced, although you will probably talk about it in a future video I presume 👀
In terms of training for self-defense, I have an only partially tongue-in-cheek defense of the value of aikido: statistically, which self-defense skill is an average person more likely to use within their lifetime? The ability to win a street fight, or the ability to safely take a fall? 😜
In the northern wasteland of my homeland, almost certainly the latter! Ice and pot holes, the cultural cornerstones of my people.
So why did the Tokyo police force choose Aikido as their method of self defence, many yrs ago. Apparently Gozo Shioda, the famous Aikido master, his style was Yoshinkan Aikido. He was asked to teach the Tokyo police self-defence. Apparently at that time there was a lot of Female police officers in Tokyo police, and they needed a method that would work for them. Since the women police officers were mostly smaller than most males, they needed something that would work for them against larger and physically stronger opponents. So if Aikido isn't an effective method of self defence then why would the Tokyo police force teach it to their police officers for self defence purposes, I realise the training may have been a bit different to the normal training in the Aikido dojo, apparently it was more harder, a crash course. They had to learn the defence techniques proficiently, within a shorter time frame. But they said this Aikido would enable the women to defend themselves against larger and stronger opponents if necessary. So do you seriously think Japanese police would teach self defence techniques to their officers that don't work. And Aikido can be used against unarmed or armed attackers
May I ask for source on the video that closes your material please?
This is so deep. When you get to Japan I hope you're in the Tokyo area. I'd really enjoy a chance to chat and would love to invite you to the dojo I train in. Something I think ties into what you've talked about in your video is that basically all the people that made aikido what it is were coming from other martial arts, like karate and judo. I just have so many thoughts I don't have anyone to bounce them off of very often that it would be great to just talk about.
In general, thank you so much for your videos, your thoughts, and your insights.
Oh god the outro. Haha
The outro touches on some of the honbu controversy from the last several years....
Howdy! Yeah, I'll keep you posted, I'd love to visit if you're willing to have me. I'm good with anything, I'll bring my white belt!
@@TenguMartialArts that would be epic. I'll be available. Since you've lived here before I'm sure you know what you're doing but if you need a hand with something feel free to reach out. :)
Thank you for analysing Aikido with such intellectual honesty. Your connection between Aikido and striking arts is key here. Defeating tucked elbows isn't a problem because tucked elbows leave you open for strikes. This is also the explanation of why uke doesn't retract punches: the contact protects him from being hit.
I suggest to study Aikido schools such as the Endo-shihan line to better understand the strategies of Aikido
also remember this arises from aiki ryu daito jitsu which was for samurai in battle who get disarmed and facing an armed opponent so their arm will be extended and not going to get retracted like modern unarmed competitions.
I think once you do a move many times, it will look fluid. I've used aikido effectively in the street, it never goes the way you think, but if you finish the intention of the move, it works too well, I almost killed a man, we had to revive him. Aikido is just aikijujitsu in disguise
A real fighter doesn't throw a haymaker punch while stepping forward with the same foot. Most of these flips and what not are happening bcuz the attacker is attacking in a way that nobody does. Lol I mean WHo comes at an opponent with their open hand outward stretched with a giant stride from the same foot?
Unfortunately, throughout the years, centuries. The martial arts focus and applications of techniques. And actual techniques have been intentionally hidden. Watered-down. Misinterpreted and poorly passed down in teaching. Once in a while, an instructor with superior understanding and discernment. Comes along. revealing actual techniques that work. But very few and far between. Fortunately, now the internet has allowed for wide revelations. But it brings with it equaling confusing nonsensical garbage. Being a lifetime martial artist and instructor-school owner. I've seen alot of bullshido. Finally, if you can destroy the small joints. Aka the fingers. Small foot bones. This will incapacitate your opponent. Unfortunately it is a small percentage move. Meaning it's less available than the punches or kicks. Most commonly experienced. But ultimately, the true martial artist trains in all areas. Not just a nitch area of focus. So one must cross train. In as many martial arts as possible. To effectively develop our whole martial arts abilities.
Aikido originally was an art for a passive as possible response to an armed attacker. Armed with the sword or staff possibly. It was intended to quickly resolve the altercation. Into a submission. With degrees of violence. Joint dislocation or bone breaks. Never ending in death. That's why it was called, the gentle martial art. It didn't have many hand striking or kicking. It's still an extremely useful art for today's use. If applying to weapons retention in the police or concealed weapons users. Wanting to retain their weapon without drawing it. To use maximum force. Using the least destructive force as possible.
If an Aikido and Sistema master had a fight who would win? and how hilarious would the fight be?
I've studied Aikido for years even trained the class under my sensei. Aikido is very real it's just that if you are trying to apply the techniques in everyday life you have to not make it choreographed. Well that goes for any martial art. Although Aikido is truly based on evading and wrist locks in a split second to take uke balance and flip them. Truly no strength is needed just technique understanding of the human body and gravity. Now that's why others don't think it works although ninja knew the same art although it might be a change in the variant, but the same ideals. The lack of knowledge in the western world breeds many fools. Research is needed to grow.
If you had done any research you'd know that the ninja didn't practice any special martial arts...
@@kanucks9 ninja took what was useful from many other martial arts. Taijutsu was more of a "special ninja art" based method.
The only real "Aikido is the best!" cane from white people. The Japanese just practise it quietly. We had white Aikido guys come into our school and say, we do it this way, that way. Dude this is JUJUTSU! We break arms, we don't dance. I've done some Judo before I did jujutsu and even Judo has some "illegal" throws because they were the ones more prone to cause injury. So now you have Aikido without some wrist locks, Judo without some throws. I did take some Aikido but that was a very short time as I have no interest in an art that needs the attacker to hang on to you even though you have not locked his grip down. In life, use everything you have,m wrist locks, 2on1, Seven Star, it is all grappling. When learning old school Japanese arts you need to be clear with what was done on/with armour and what was done on a clothes body.
It came from ikijujsu a hard style a combative art aikido is soft style and hapkido is hard style they added tang soo do karate attacks to make it more efficient bjj is losing its stand up game self defense and combative war . Love all jujitsu Bruce Lee liked it and tested it out be like water my friend
They already made aikido more martial. It's called Judo.
31:29 had goofed around with some in BJJ, I did brute force sankyo to a person who wanted to do rear naked choke, and single hand nikyo is nice for releasing arm grabs from any positions
Sankyo out of a rear naked choke attempt is a bread and butter thing for me in more open formats. It's just kind of awful in the best of ways lol
@@TenguMartialArts maybe i'll try to adapt iriminage and handgrab+kaiten on wrestling/standing bjj roll if i have the chance to do it again. Training aiki on muaythai clinch and leg throws seems interesting, too. I have more training experiences in muaythai more than bjj, but ironically my kickboxing sparring exp is very lacking compared to bjj which i've just learned to do