It somehow never occurs to a lot of people that the dead were living breathing humans with self-preservation, who squirm, turn, crawl, writhe and shift around in their last moments, not just anatomical crash dummies, sitting or standing still.
Between August 10th,1939 andSeptember 6th, 1939, the PolishBolsheviks killed over 56,000 German nationals in the Danzig Corridor. This was carried out by the Polish and RussianJewish ledNKVD. The Danzig/Bromberg massacres were protested by Germany to the ' League of Nations ' DOZENS OF TIMES, to no avail....☠️☠️..... " On February 29, 1944 the ' British Ministry of lnformation ' sent the following note to the higher British Clergy and to the BBC. ........Sir, l am directed by the Ministry to send you the following circular letter : It is often the duty of the good citizens and of the pious Christians to turn a blind eye on the peculiarities of those associated with us. But the time comes when such peculiarities, while still denied in public, must be taken into account when action by us is called for. We know the methods of rule employed by theBolshevik dictator in Russia itself from, for example, the writings and speaches of the Prime Minister himself during the last twenty years. We know how theRedArmy behaved in Poland in 1920 and in Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Galicia, and Bessarabia only recently. We must, therefore, take into account how theRedArmy will certainly behave when it overruns Central Europe. Unless precautions are taken, the obviously inevitable horrors which will result will throw an undue stain in public opinion in this country. We cannot reform theBolsheviks but we can do our best to save them - and ourselves - from the consequences of their acts. The disclosures of the quarter of a century will render mere denials unconvincing. The only alternative to denial is to distract public attention from the whole subject. Experience has shown that the best distraction in is ' Atrocity Propaganda ' directed against the enemy. Unfortunately the public is no longer so susceptible as in the days of the " Corps Factory ", the " Mutilated Belgian Babies " and the " Crucified Canadians ". Your cooperation is therefore earnestly sought to distract public attention from the doings of theRedArmy by your wholehearted support of various charges against the Germans and Japanese which have been and will be put into circulation by the Ministry. Your expression of belief in such may convince others. I am, Sir, Your obediant servant ( Signed ) H.HEWET, Assistant secretary. The Ministry can enter into no correspondence of any kind with regard to this communication which should only be disclosed to responsible persons. " - pages 209-210, ' Allied Wartime Diplomacy ' by Edward J. Rozek. ☠️☠️ ......ATROCITY PROPAGANDA - " Atrocity propaganda is how we won the war. And we're only really beginning with it now ! We will continue this atrocity propaganda, we will escalate it until nobody will accept even a good word from the Germans, until all the sympathy they may still have abroad will have been destroyed and they themselves will be so confused that they will no longer know what they are doing. Once that has been achieved, once they begin to run down their own country and their own people, not reluctantly but with eagerness to please the victors, only then will our victory be complete. IT WILL NEVER BE FINAL. Re-education needs careful tending, like an English lawn. Even one moment of negligence, and the weeds crop up again - those indestructible weeds of historical TRUTH. " - SeftonDalmer (1904-1979), former British Chief of ' Black Propaganda ': Said after the German surrender in 1945 in a conversation with the German Professor of lnternational Law Dr.FriedrichGrimm. ☠️☠️☠️........ " Thanks to the terrible power of our International Banks, we have forced the Christians into wars without number. Wars have a special value forJews, since Christians massacre each other and make more room for usJews. Wars are theJews' Harvest, The Jewbanks grow fat on Christian wars. Over 100-million Christians have been swept off the face of the earth by wars, and the end is not yet." - rabbiReichorn, speaking at funeral of Grand rabbiSimeon Ben-Judah, France, 1869.☠️☠️ christiansfortruth.com/post-war-u-s-occupying-forces-believed-germany-justified-in-war-and-hitler-served-his-country-constructively
I was shot by an attacker in 1982. I was missed point blank 3 times and hit twice. I tripped over a box and fell backwards onto the box. I was trying to raise up in an attempt to defend myself. My attacker aimed at my groin and missed, hitting me in my left upper thigh. This was a deep flesh wound on the top of my leg resembling a large spoon scoping away a chunk of my leg. (I never felt it) The fifth and final bullet hit me in the neck. The .44 Special hollow point bullet went through my right shirt. Collar destroyed my first and second thoracic vertebrae and came to a stop subcutaneously just below my left scapula in the back. I didn't hear the shot but the impact put me down like a freight train. When early bled to death. But God had other plans. I'm paralyzed and use a wheelchair but that hasn't stopped me from living my life.
Back in the 60s I spent a summer in saipan. As kids will do, we went adventuring in the jungles. In a spot not far from roads we found live artillery shell and rows and rows of american helmets all stacked in rows. All were rusted but it took me a bit to realize that almost all of them had bullet holes in them. Or shrapnel holes. Anyway this kinda freaked me out so we left. We reported the shells to the police.
One thing ive discovered having a channel of similar size is that everyone on youtube is an expert. And they LOVE correcting the channel owner because it strokes their ego.
Murphy's law states if you have a question you need answered, it's faster to state the wrong answer and wait for the Internet to correct you than to ask the question in good faith.
"You're only truly educated once you've understood how ignorant you are" is a quote that has served me well ever since I have heard it said by Christopher Hitchens.
Correct Hypothesis! The soldier could only have been shot from a higher place if he was standing bolt upright looking ahead, front and centre! Now what are the chances of that? In actual fact the soldier's head could have been in any position, there is no definitive answer to the path of trajectory. Hell, he could've been shot whilst kneeling down and looking up meaning he got shot by a guy who was lying down!
Well, if you read the pathological liar Sven Hassel's versions of the war, a German soldier was as hard as Krupp steel and only had to look straight ahead. This is solide evidence that Kurt was shot by a sniper.
Fantastic video. I hope the armchair experts understand your simple and straight forward explanation. Yet another reason why I subscribed to this channel some time ago.
Another possibility that wasn't explored in the video is that his helmet may not have been sitting on his head perfectly on his head. If it was crooked that would also change the interpretation.
A gruesome but at the same time thought provoking and very interesting subject...and as you said , people in crime scene work have to know what they are doing. I love the 'Dunning Kruger' graph....I feel I'm cultured bordering on ignorant!😅😅. Funny thing is I know a lot of people who are ignorant and know everything but in reality know nothing. The amount of times I've fell into conversation with someone who has watched a couple of documentaries on ww2 and they've told me that 'XY & Z' are 100% true...where myself I realise that a subject should be approached from different angles, yes watch a documentary, but watch a few different ones from various sources, read several books on the subject, visit a museum ....and then maybe you can have an appreciation of the subject at hand, but not an expert. I reckon I could live another 100 years and not know it all. I have to agree with your thoughts on living ones life recognising the 'Dunning Kruger' effect......cheers Jean-Loup, another great video😊😊😊😊
Another point is that generally snipers will shoot for torso, since it is much bigger target than head. Snipers going for headshots is entertainment shenanigans. Even now in Ukraine with body armor snipers go for body shots.
Depends on distance, angle and skill. What you say is certainly true for soldiers trained in that role, but in the case of Kurt Günther it was French partisans in a street fight (20-100m). Probably with the advantage of an ambush or at least stealth. It is even possible the shooter aimed for the torso but hit the head instead.
I am a true friend of your channel. absolutely fascinating content and I share your enthusiasm. I always look forward to the next video. Many thanks and greetings from Germany
This would be a great lecture from a visiting professor/presenter. When I was young, I remember my friends at school debating the assassination of Pres. Kennedy. We didn't know much, so we were all certain we knew the truth. Our argument was on the final shot: was it from the front or the rear? I was sure it came from the front because "common sense" says if I smack that cup from the front it will fall back. As the years went by, I kept reading, watching documentaries, and listening. I saw diagrams like this to show how a bullet from the rear did indeed cause the President's head to snap back as the bullet exited. No matter how much I experience for myself, and how much I learn, I am still amazed at how much damage a small piece of metal can make.
Thanks for putting out there the range of possibilities, this of course has aspects that could be used in many other scenarios, not just in battlefield casualties..
If you could figure out if that was a 7.62x25 it is a significant little calibre. Very fast almost in a magnum category. It's a necked down round. It has shoulders on the casing vs a 9 mm or 45 ACP. This was probably a spray from a PPSH more than likely between dugouts.
I've always assumed the Dunning-Kruger effect had a few prerequisites involving things like basic logic and common sense in order to apply. If an adult sticks a fork in an electrical socket, is that the Dunning-Kruger effect or just plain stupid? Anyway, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but while we're talking about bullet trajectory.... The angle of target entry for a 30-06 for example would be around 10 degrees at something like 200 yards, or up to 3 or 4 times that angle at max range. The red arrow through Kurt Günther's helmet looks like about 10 degrees to me. Also can a bullet alter course as it passes through helmet, bone, and brain material? As mentioned in referenced video, yes. Is it possible the helmet started to move in relation to his head after entry but before exit? I don't know, but it seems logical and the angles make sense with this one (push on entry side, helmet goes up on opposite side).
Another fantastic contribution to help us understand such matters...please keep your hard work going..imparting your superb archaeological knowledge to us mere mortals...
I had a professor who said that universities should first give degrees in Thinking. Once that was achieved, one could go on to specialize. This channel, and in particular this video, demonstrates the value of thinking. Jean Loup's process in analyzing the available evidence and data is very deliberate and well executed. I am an elementary school teacher. I tell my kids all the time that learning is not about memorizing facts so much as it is knowing how to apply them. Well done Sir!!
@@angelmessenger8240 There are these things called Philosophy classes, which many universities have either minimized or eliminated in the mad rush to crank out more MBA's without any "needless additional course work."
Hello Crocodile, if you make a aimed shot in e greater distance, the Bullet always will come from above, because the Flypath of the Bullet. Ich schreibe dir das jetzt noch auf deutsch, als (West)Schweizer hoffe ich, dass du dies lesen kannst, es ist eine wichtige Erklärung: Wenn man einen Distanzschuss abgibt, wird das Geschoss immer mehr oder weniger (abhängig von der Schiessdistanz) von oben nach unten im Ziel einschlagen, wegen der gekrümmtem Flugbahn, hervorgerufen durch die Erdanziehung. Man muss ja dessen Flugbahn wegen der Erdanziehung und dem Absinken des Geschosses erhöhen. Auch wenn der beschossene gerade dasteht, wird das Geschoss bei einem Distanzschuss tiefer aus, als eintreten. Ich verfolge deine Beiträge immer mit grossem Interesse. Bravo! Gruss aus dem Solothurnischen.
Indeed. Considering this went through the head and both sides of the helmet, I dont think it was fired from very far though, which is logical for an urban environment.
@@CrocodileTear lets take the Cartridge 30-06, the US one in WWII, at 300m the Velocity is still ca. 670m/s (147grain FMJ bullet with 890m/s V0) the drop is almost 40cm at 300m. So you have to aim that much higher and this becomes an angle who fit very good with the damage pattern of the helmet. the 670 m/s with the full metall jacket bullet are enough to penetrate the helmet and skull (the russian 7.62x54R is very similar, also the British .303 Rifle round). the exit mark on the helmet shows, that the bullet flight sideways with not much remaining speed to be expected a this range. Ich mag diese Diskussion, und will auf keinen Fall Klugscheissen, es ist ja eigentlich egal, da, wie du sagst, zu viele Details der Situation und Position damals offen bleiben. Als Büchsenmacher liegen mir solche Themen halt einfach auch. Die Durchschlagskraft der verwendeten Patronen ist auf alle Fälle sehr hoch. Auf 10m Vermögen diese Geschosse 10mm Vollstahl (St37) zu durchschlagen, das habe ich selbst mit der 7.5x55 geschossen.
@@71TOXIC I dont think a 40 cm drop in 300 meters gives such a steep angle as what is seen on the helmet (assuming the helmet is horizontal, etc, of course.)
Another thing to remember is that bullets don't go in straight lines, they travel in ballistic arcs. If you held a gun perfectly level and dropped a bullet at the same time as firing the gun; everything else being equal the bullets would hit the ground at the same time
Sometimes a soldier without a helmet gets a headshot, or a helmet just laying somewhere gets a hit. A soldier may put on a helmet that already has a bullet hole in it because at the time that helmet is better than their own for whatever reason, or they lost their own helmet, or they are simply issued a used helmet. A soldier may wear a shot helmet and then die from different causes than a headshot. A soldier may encounter friendly fire from the own ranks or an opposing position.
Excellent explanation. I was taught to aim for the torso, bigger target. Snipers are no different. You want to make sure of a hit and the head is a small target especially if it's moving. Even a wounded soldier is one less in a battle.
Also, higher probability of head and upper torso shots since this area, in trenches or holes, or exposed and prone, is most often least protected and mostly exposed
Also don’t forget to factor in ballistic trajectory as in bullets travel in an arch not a straight line like a laser. With that being said a bullet fired from a long distance will be traveling at a downward angle at impact. So that is another consideration to debunk the shot from above theory. Just one more component to a very complicated forensic analysis. Also thank you for your work on this channel. Very informative and interesting to see this subject matter from an outside of the USA standpoint.
The descent angle on ballistics is pretty negligible. *especially* for WW2 where you had fairly high velocity weaponary but fairly rudimentary sight/targetting systems still. The descent angle even at 2km is only a few degrees, completely negligible for this sort of work.
For some reason people have this wrong image, that snipers are up in a tower with a scoped rifle taking out random soldiers with one shot. In reality the sniper that you will encounter is some dude with a machine gun hiding in a foxhole or basement hosing down the street.
This is really good, I’ve just written a piece on my facebook page about the “snipers” at la Fiere, the same sniper, was killed by three different groups, the interesting thing is the definition of a sniper, basically any one who shoots an opponent from cover or a concealed position , that person could be deemed as a sniper, even if he didn’t have a scope. The thing is, so many people were said to have been shot by snipers during this engagement, you’d assume that there were snipers everywhere. However, the fact is Snipers, even in the German army, whilst there were certainly more in the German infantry, than in the Airborne Units at Normandy were specialists and rare,it is highly unlikely within the 25 or so Germans who initially were defending La Fiere, there was ever more than 1. However, based on the topography, the men who were targeted and where they were shot on the battlefield, i believe I have narrowed down where he was and who actually killed him, in the end. In saying that, it’s my best guess based on all the statements given by soldiers after the battle, that this is what may have happened. , At la Fiere in the morning, whilst the Germans soldiers were defending the eastern bridge head and the Manor buildings, there were Airborne soldiers at Cauquigny Church, who were shooting at what they thought were Germans on the eastern bank, why couldn’t they tell one for another, well again the sun has allot to do with that, in the morning the side of the soldiers that the American’s on the West Bank could see would have been in shadow, making them impossible to tell one from the other with the naked eye. They also believed that the Manor was not defended, hence they may well have assumed the Paratroopers were the ones defending La Fiere, however, the simple truth is, one of the officers Leevy had to intervene to stop them, it’s distinctly possible that some of the casualties were actually victims of friendly fire.. however, we will never know for sure.
From my experience interviewing WWII veterans, a sniper was anybody firing from a concealed position as you say, and in fact veterans talked about Germans sniping at them with submachine guns, etc. Probably only 1 in a 100 of these "snipers" was a trained sniper with a scope in the modern sence of the word. By definition when you are shot from a concealed position, you dont know who shot you.
Good explanation thanks. But why bother explaining to people who are clearly ignorant? 90% of the time they won't change! Your normal videos are extremely interesting, particularly when you discover and unearth mass burials and explain how they died and what seems to have happened to them. (I've been subbed to your channel for a few years now).
Read what the other viewers have commented, and tell me if you think it was a mistake to make the video. This trajectory buisness is a recurring theme I have talked and discussed about numerous times over the years. Now I will just post the link to this video instead of repeating myself.
There is no way to know without Being there at the time. If I had to guess based on my 18-years in the US Army, I would say the German was in a foxhole and the shooter was Patrolling and spotted the German first (from 50 yards or less) while the German was looking away, or the shooter approached from the right flank. the shooter may have dropped to his knee which. with the German in a fox hole and the shooter on one knee the angle shown was possible. is this what happened? we will never know for sure, but it's plausible and very likely. It's much easier to guess wounds during WWII. wounds now like in ukraine are typically far too violent 15:28 to the bodies. my war was desert shield and desert storm... where more troops were killed in car accidents, except for the Scud missile attack and blue on blue events. what's going on in Ukraine is horrific. I'm not a huge fan of Russians, but what's happening to the russian troops is rather shocking whether they deserve it is another topic. (likely 80% don't wish to be there.... If they run they get shot by their own troops, and if they stay they get killed by Ukraine forces (Rock and a hard place).
I'm not an expert, but for a bullet to penetrate the top of a helmet and the top of the head, it would have to be at minimum a rifle at best a sniper rifle at the limit of there effect range and not exit the skull. A sub machine gun with a low velocity shell like a 45 caliber would have to be at point blank range to have any hope of penetrating a WW2 steel curved helmet.
Very interesting video. Without all the information its at best a stab in the dark. There really are so many scenarios that without eyes on evidence its a guess. 👍👍
I agree with your assessment. Its clear that Kurt was not shot from an elevated position, but rather when his head was bent over, likely as he was looking down to reload his weapon.
Bullets also don't fly straight after penetrating soft or hard material. They can be deflected in the head or even by the helmet to take on different angles or trajectory.
This is basic info that is applied every day at crime scenes. But in CSI, unlike in reality, everything is solved at first glance, giving laymen the impression that everything is easy.
Regarding the trajectory for the helmet of Kurt Günther: There is one important question to narrow down the position of the killer: Was he the first victim in an ambush or was the firefight already going. If I remember correctly the documents talked about an "Attentäter" or "Heckenschütze" and if he was the only casualty, it is likely he was hit from stealth and likely from an elevated position. But as you said, it is all speculation and with the limited knowledge about the incident, it will likely never be more than that.
@@CrocodileTear Thx for clarifying the wording in the report. With that sentence and information all could be possible. Unsuspected close range attack, sniped from a window, died in a firefight while ducking behind some cover, etc etc. At least his comrades were more lucky that day.
We know that prehistoric man and Neanderthals took on big game, the ones that an atlatl or arrow most likely would not have brought down easily. We also know our early brethren learned quickly, and we’re most likely driving them toward cliffs, if possible, or knew to team up one at least on each side of a bear or mammoth and lunge behind the front leg at heart and lungs. Have you ever thought about this? Logic dictates what I have just alluded to, all other things being equal, to distract the beast in question. To limit or reduce injury to themselves or having to attack the wounded animal, now enraged, all over again.
We could use Occam's Razor to reduce the number of assumptions in order to figure out exactly what happened when the German soldier was shot through his helmet.
Also high percentage of head wounds are cose lots of people use head as only part of body to get out of trench (to aim, spot, listen, watch ets). As sport shooter and hunter, i can confirm this is not sniper. Pistol range more than 50m is just a statistics. Try to shoot man running 25m from you with pistol is almost imposible. Movies will make you belive it can be done eazy. Not true. Anyway really good content and greetings from Slovenia
this is absolutely an amazing video and i’m not an expert on ballistics but you have to keep in mind that some bullets ricochet around after entering so for example at 4:39 the exit hole on the thigh, on the left side demonstration could’ve been an entrance hole and the bullet bounced around and came his shin etc
It somehow never occurs to a lot of people that the dead were living breathing humans with self-preservation, who squirm, turn, crawl, writhe and shift around in their last moments, not just anatomical crash dummies, sitting or standing still.
There is a lot of footage showing such behaviour by human beings, but youtube classified it as 18+
Some people do just drop like a rock depending on the severity of trauma on the CNS.
You seriously made that statement? Wow
There not dead, there still alive but in a different time.
Between August 10th,1939 andSeptember 6th, 1939, the PolishBolsheviks killed over 56,000 German nationals in the Danzig Corridor. This was carried out by the Polish and RussianJewish ledNKVD. The Danzig/Bromberg massacres were protested by Germany to the ' League of Nations ' DOZENS OF TIMES, to no avail....☠️☠️..... " On February 29, 1944 the ' British Ministry of lnformation ' sent the following note to the higher British Clergy and to the BBC. ........Sir, l am directed by the Ministry to send you the following circular letter : It is often the duty of the good citizens and of the pious Christians to turn a blind eye on the peculiarities of those associated with us. But the time comes when such peculiarities, while still denied in public, must be taken into account when action by us is called for. We know the methods of rule employed by theBolshevik dictator in Russia itself from, for example, the writings and speaches of the Prime Minister himself during the last twenty years. We know how theRedArmy behaved in Poland in 1920 and in Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Galicia, and Bessarabia only recently. We must, therefore, take into account how theRedArmy will certainly behave when it overruns Central Europe. Unless precautions are taken, the obviously inevitable horrors which will result will throw an undue stain in public opinion in this country. We cannot reform theBolsheviks but we can do our best to save them - and ourselves - from the consequences of their acts. The disclosures of the quarter of a century will render mere denials unconvincing. The only alternative to denial is to distract public attention from the whole subject. Experience has shown that the best distraction in is ' Atrocity Propaganda ' directed against the enemy. Unfortunately the public is no longer so susceptible as in the days of the " Corps Factory ", the " Mutilated Belgian Babies " and the " Crucified Canadians ". Your cooperation is therefore earnestly sought to distract public attention from the doings of theRedArmy by your wholehearted support of various charges against the Germans and Japanese which have been and will be put into circulation by the Ministry. Your expression of belief in such may convince others. I am, Sir, Your obediant servant ( Signed ) H.HEWET, Assistant secretary. The Ministry can enter into no correspondence of any kind with regard to this communication which should only be disclosed to responsible persons. " - pages 209-210, ' Allied Wartime Diplomacy ' by Edward J. Rozek.
☠️☠️ ......ATROCITY PROPAGANDA - " Atrocity propaganda is how we won the war. And we're only really beginning with it now ! We will continue this atrocity propaganda, we will escalate it until nobody will accept even a good word from the Germans, until all the sympathy they may still have abroad will have been destroyed and they themselves will be so confused that they will no longer know what they are doing. Once that has been achieved, once they begin to run down their own country and their own people, not reluctantly but with eagerness to please the victors, only then will our victory be complete. IT WILL NEVER BE FINAL. Re-education needs careful tending, like an English lawn. Even one moment of negligence, and the weeds crop up again - those indestructible weeds of historical TRUTH. " - SeftonDalmer (1904-1979), former British Chief of ' Black Propaganda ': Said after the German surrender in 1945 in a conversation with the German Professor of lnternational Law Dr.FriedrichGrimm. ☠️☠️☠️........ " Thanks to the terrible power of our International Banks, we have forced the Christians into wars without number. Wars have a special value forJews, since Christians massacre each other and make more room for usJews. Wars are theJews' Harvest, The Jewbanks grow fat on Christian wars. Over 100-million Christians have been swept off the face of the earth by wars, and the end is not yet." - rabbiReichorn, speaking at funeral of Grand rabbiSimeon Ben-Judah, France, 1869.☠️☠️ christiansfortruth.com/post-war-u-s-occupying-forces-believed-germany-justified-in-war-and-hitler-served-his-country-constructively
Reasoned analysis, can at times, lead to an inconclusive outcome. Some people can't accept this. Thanks for posting.
I was shot by an attacker in 1982. I was missed point blank 3 times and hit twice. I tripped over a box and fell backwards onto the box. I was trying to raise up in an attempt to defend myself. My attacker aimed at my groin and missed, hitting me in my left upper thigh. This was a deep flesh wound on the top of my leg resembling a large spoon scoping away a chunk of my leg. (I never felt it)
The fifth and final bullet hit me in the neck. The .44 Special hollow point bullet went through my right shirt. Collar destroyed my first and second thoracic vertebrae and came to a stop subcutaneously just below my left scapula in the back. I didn't hear the shot but the impact put me down like a freight train. When early bled to death. But God had other plans. I'm paralyzed and use a wheelchair but that hasn't stopped me from living my life.
I was born in 1982
@Hme-ph4lqa jealous ex-boyfriend that couldn't take no for an answer tried to kill my wife and I both. She was not hurt thank goodness.
Not many can say, "I took a .44 hollow point to the chest" and speak the truth.
Unless it's a last words kinda deal.
what happened to the attacker? did he get sentenced by a court
@@turcarumimperator1395 17.5 years in prison. So far he's left us alone
Back in the 60s I spent a summer in saipan. As kids will do, we went adventuring in the jungles. In a spot not far from roads we found live artillery shell and rows and rows of american helmets all stacked in rows. All were rusted but it took me a bit to realize that almost all of them had bullet holes in them. Or shrapnel holes. Anyway this kinda freaked me out so we left. We reported the shells to the police.
one of the best channels that shows respect to the war dead, and the horrors of war..thankyou for your efforts...
Absolutely
Your videos are always very educational. I really enjoy them. Thanks!
One thing ive discovered having a channel of similar size is that everyone on youtube is an expert. And they LOVE correcting the channel owner because it strokes their ego.
Recorrecting them strokes my ego as well 😆
@@CrocodileTear😂😂😂
Murphy's law states if you have a question you need answered, it's faster to state the wrong answer and wait for the Internet to correct you than to ask the question in good faith.
"You're only truly educated once you've understood how ignorant you are" is a quote that has served me well ever since I have heard it said by Christopher Hitchens.
Mark Twain: "People do a lot of feeling, and confuse it with thinking." AKA Samuel Clemens
Correct Hypothesis! The soldier could only have been shot from a higher place if he was standing bolt upright looking ahead, front and centre! Now what are the chances of that? In actual fact the soldier's head could have been in any position, there is no definitive answer to the path of trajectory. Hell, he could've been shot whilst kneeling down and looking up meaning he got shot by a guy who was lying down!
Well, if you read the pathological liar Sven Hassel's versions of the war, a German soldier was as hard as Krupp steel and only had to look straight ahead. This is solide evidence that Kurt was shot by a sniper.
Fantastic video. I hope the armchair experts understand your simple and straight forward explanation. Yet another reason why I subscribed to this channel some time ago.
Another possibility that wasn't explored in the video is that his helmet may not have been sitting on his head perfectly on his head. If it was crooked that would also change the interpretation.
A gruesome but at the same time thought provoking and very interesting subject...and as you said , people in crime scene work have to know what they are doing. I love the 'Dunning Kruger' graph....I feel I'm cultured bordering on ignorant!😅😅. Funny thing is I know a lot of people who are ignorant and know everything but in reality know nothing. The amount of times I've fell into conversation with someone who has watched a couple of documentaries on ww2 and they've told me that 'XY & Z' are 100% true...where myself I realise that a subject should be approached from different angles, yes watch a documentary, but watch a few different ones from various sources, read several books on the subject, visit a museum ....and then maybe you can have an appreciation of the subject at hand, but not an expert. I reckon I could live another 100 years and not know it all. I have to agree with your thoughts on living ones life recognising the 'Dunning Kruger' effect......cheers Jean-Loup, another great video😊😊😊😊
Words can’t express the gratitude I have for your videos.
Very interesting. The JFK reference was helpful.
Another point is that generally snipers will shoot for torso, since it is much bigger target than head. Snipers going for headshots is entertainment shenanigans. Even now in Ukraine with body armor snipers go for body shots.
Depends on distance, angle and skill. What you say is certainly true for soldiers trained in that role, but in the case of Kurt Günther it was French partisans in a street fight (20-100m). Probably with the advantage of an ambush or at least stealth. It is even possible the shooter aimed for the torso but hit the head instead.
Awesome video as always Jean-Loup. A lot of well presented points on a very interesting subject. Can’t wait for more. 😊
I see a lot of this on you tube… people who are confidently WRONG.
Merci beaucoup pour cette vidéo, vos explications sont logiques et très intéressantes. Bonne continuation et à bientôt.
I am a true friend of your channel. absolutely fascinating content and I share your enthusiasm. I always look forward to the next video. Many thanks and greetings from Germany
Vielen Danke
Exactly. Excellent analysis, and your point holds true for so many of the issues one faces in life.
This would be a great lecture from a visiting professor/presenter. When I was young, I remember my friends at school debating the assassination of Pres. Kennedy. We didn't know much, so we were all certain we knew the truth. Our argument was on the final shot: was it from the front or the rear? I was sure it came from the front because "common sense" says if I smack that cup from the front it will fall back. As the years went by, I kept reading, watching documentaries, and listening. I saw diagrams like this to show how a bullet from the rear did indeed cause the President's head to snap back as the bullet exited. No matter how much I experience for myself, and how much I learn, I am still amazed at how much damage a small piece of metal can make.
Love your channel and all of the research. I know you spend countless hours for our education and entertainment. Thank you so much!
Excellent, comme d'habitude
Correct. The more you know, the more you realize you don't know.
👍
great content, still so many unanswered situations that we will never know, so thank you for your judgement and knowledge.
Always an Outstanding video and presentation.
well said my friend,, great video
Brilliant. Thank you. A south african fan.
Survivorship bias, a really cool concept 12:00
Or in this case, non-survivor bias. Same thing, different view point.
Thanks for putting out there the range of possibilities, this of course has aspects that could be used in many other scenarios, not just in battlefield casualties..
If you could figure out if that was a 7.62x25 it is a significant little calibre. Very fast almost in a magnum category. It's a necked down round. It has shoulders on the casing vs a 9 mm or 45 ACP. This was probably a spray from a PPSH more than likely between dugouts.
As you see, the casing is not there. But I think it is from the PPSh indeed.
I've always assumed the Dunning-Kruger effect had a few prerequisites involving things like basic logic and common sense in order to apply. If an adult sticks a fork in an electrical socket, is that the Dunning-Kruger effect or just plain stupid?
Anyway, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but while we're talking about bullet trajectory.... The angle of target entry for a 30-06 for example would be around 10 degrees at something like 200 yards, or up to 3 or 4 times that angle at max range. The red arrow through Kurt Günther's helmet looks like about 10 degrees to me.
Also can a bullet alter course as it passes through helmet, bone, and brain material? As mentioned in referenced video, yes.
Is it possible the helmet started to move in relation to his head after entry but before exit? I don't know, but it seems logical and the angles make sense with this one (push on entry side, helmet goes up on opposite side).
Everything you mention adds even more unknown to this, and underlines the fact that no quick, easy and sweeping conclusions can be drawn.
Another excellent video, thanks.
Well explained. Convinced.
Another fantastic contribution to help us understand such matters...please keep your hard work going..imparting your superb archaeological knowledge to us mere mortals...
I had a professor who said that universities should first give degrees in Thinking. Once that was achieved, one could go on to specialize. This channel, and in particular this video, demonstrates the value of thinking. Jean Loup's process in analyzing the available evidence and data is very deliberate and well executed. I am an elementary school teacher. I tell my kids all the time that learning is not about memorizing facts so much as it is knowing how to apply them. Well done Sir!!
Schools tell you what to think, not how to think. There should be classes in critical thinking.
@@angelmessenger8240 There are these things called Philosophy classes, which many universities have either minimized or eliminated in the mad rush to crank out more MBA's without any "needless additional course work."
Interesting as always, Jean-Loup - much obliged.
🤗(_̅̅(̲̲(̅_̅м̲̅a̲̅я̲̅i̲̅ju̲̅a̲̅n̲̅a̲̅_̅_̅()ڪے~💨💨💨💨🍄
You have a skill of making videos entertaining yet still extremely informative and in depth
Man,, you make great videos….
Keep up the good work..👍👍
Thank you, very informative and enlightening piece of science.
Hello Crocodile, if you make a aimed shot in e greater distance, the Bullet always will come from above, because the Flypath of the Bullet.
Ich schreibe dir das jetzt noch auf deutsch, als (West)Schweizer hoffe ich, dass du dies lesen kannst, es ist eine wichtige Erklärung:
Wenn man einen Distanzschuss abgibt, wird das Geschoss immer mehr oder weniger (abhängig von der Schiessdistanz) von oben nach unten im Ziel einschlagen, wegen der gekrümmtem Flugbahn, hervorgerufen durch die Erdanziehung. Man muss ja dessen Flugbahn wegen der Erdanziehung und dem Absinken des Geschosses erhöhen.
Auch wenn der beschossene gerade dasteht, wird das Geschoss bei einem Distanzschuss tiefer aus, als eintreten.
Ich verfolge deine Beiträge immer mit grossem Interesse. Bravo!
Gruss aus dem Solothurnischen.
Indeed. Considering this went through the head and both sides of the helmet, I dont think it was fired from very far though, which is logical for an urban environment.
@@CrocodileTear lets take the Cartridge 30-06, the US one in WWII, at 300m the Velocity is still ca. 670m/s (147grain FMJ bullet with 890m/s V0) the drop is almost 40cm at 300m. So you have to aim that much higher and this becomes an angle who fit very good with the damage pattern of the helmet. the 670 m/s with the full metall jacket bullet are enough to penetrate the helmet and skull (the russian 7.62x54R is very similar, also the British .303 Rifle round). the exit mark on the helmet shows, that the bullet flight sideways with not much remaining speed to be expected a this range.
Ich mag diese Diskussion, und will auf keinen Fall Klugscheissen, es ist ja eigentlich egal, da, wie du sagst, zu viele Details der Situation und Position damals offen bleiben.
Als Büchsenmacher liegen mir solche Themen halt einfach auch. Die Durchschlagskraft der verwendeten Patronen ist auf alle Fälle sehr hoch.
Auf 10m Vermögen diese Geschosse 10mm Vollstahl (St37) zu durchschlagen, das habe ich selbst mit der 7.5x55 geschossen.
@@71TOXIC I dont think a 40 cm drop in 300 meters gives such a steep angle as what is seen on the helmet (assuming the helmet is horizontal, etc, of course.)
Another thing to remember is that bullets don't go in straight lines, they travel in ballistic arcs.
If you held a gun perfectly level and dropped a bullet at the same time as firing the gun; everything else being equal the bullets would hit the ground at the same time
Because helmet glad you could find out all the information on it
Sometimes a soldier without a helmet gets a headshot, or a helmet just laying somewhere gets a hit. A soldier may put on a helmet that already has a bullet hole in it because at the time that helmet is better than their own for whatever reason, or they lost their own helmet, or they are simply issued a used helmet. A soldier may wear a shot helmet and then die from different causes than a headshot. A soldier may encounter friendly fire from the own ranks or an opposing position.
Excellent explanation. I was taught to aim for the torso, bigger target. Snipers are no different. You want to make sure of a hit and the head is a small target especially if it's moving. Even a wounded soldier is one less in a battle.
This was again very informative man. Please make videos more often. thanks
Also, higher probability of head and upper torso shots since this area, in trenches or holes, or exposed and prone, is most often least protected and mostly exposed
You make it so easy to understand, bravo!
Skull #1 looks like a 7.62x25 bullet. Probably fired from a SMG .
Exactly
Why does this feel like the male equivalent of female murder investigation stories
Also don’t forget to factor in ballistic trajectory as in bullets travel in an arch not a straight line like a laser. With that being said a bullet fired from a long distance will be traveling at a downward angle at impact. So that is another consideration to debunk the shot from above theory. Just one more component to a very complicated forensic analysis.
Also thank you for your work on this channel. Very informative and interesting to see this subject matter from an outside of the USA standpoint.
The descent angle on ballistics is pretty negligible.
*especially* for WW2 where you had fairly high velocity weaponary but fairly rudimentary sight/targetting systems still.
The descent angle even at 2km is only a few degrees, completely negligible for this sort of work.
For some reason people have this wrong image, that snipers are up in a tower with a scoped rifle taking out random soldiers with one shot. In reality the sniper that you will encounter is some dude with a machine gun hiding in a foxhole or basement hosing down the street.
Another great and informative presentation - keep it up.
This video makes too much sense 👍👍🏼👍🏽👍🏿👍🏾
Once again, another great video.
This is really good, I’ve just written a piece on my facebook page about the “snipers” at la Fiere, the same sniper, was killed by three different groups, the interesting thing is the definition of a sniper, basically any one who shoots an opponent from cover or a concealed position , that person could be deemed as a sniper, even if he didn’t have a scope.
The thing is, so many people were said to have been shot by snipers during this engagement, you’d assume that there were snipers everywhere. However, the fact is Snipers, even in the German army, whilst there were certainly more in the German infantry, than in the Airborne Units at Normandy were specialists and rare,it is highly unlikely within the 25 or so Germans who initially were defending La Fiere, there was ever more than 1.
However, based on the topography, the men who were targeted and where they were shot on the battlefield, i believe I have narrowed down where he was and who actually killed him, in the end.
In saying that, it’s my best guess based on all the statements given by soldiers after the battle, that this is what may have happened.
,
At la Fiere in the morning, whilst the Germans soldiers were defending the eastern bridge head and the Manor buildings, there were Airborne soldiers at Cauquigny Church, who were shooting at what they thought were Germans on the eastern bank, why couldn’t they tell one for another, well again the sun has allot to do with that, in the morning the side of the soldiers that the American’s on the West Bank could see would have been in shadow, making them impossible to tell one from the other with the naked eye. They also believed that the Manor was not defended, hence they may well have assumed the Paratroopers were the ones defending La Fiere, however, the simple truth is, one of the officers Leevy had to intervene to stop them, it’s distinctly possible that some of the casualties were actually victims of friendly fire.. however, we will never know for sure.
From my experience interviewing WWII veterans, a sniper was anybody firing from a concealed position as you say, and in fact veterans talked about Germans sniping at them with submachine guns, etc.
Probably only 1 in a 100 of these "snipers" was a trained sniper with a scope in the modern sence of the word.
By definition when you are shot from a concealed position, you dont know who shot you.
Good explanation thanks. But why bother explaining to people who are clearly ignorant? 90% of the time they won't change!
Your normal videos are extremely interesting, particularly when you discover and unearth mass burials and explain how they died and what seems to have happened to them. (I've been subbed to your channel for a few years now).
Read what the other viewers have commented, and tell me if you think it was a mistake to make the video.
This trajectory buisness is a recurring theme I have talked and discussed about numerous times over the years. Now I will just post the link to this video instead of repeating myself.
There is no way to know without Being there at the time. If I had to guess based on my 18-years in the US Army, I would say the German was in a foxhole and the shooter was Patrolling and spotted the German first (from 50 yards or less) while the German was looking away, or the shooter approached from the right flank. the shooter may have dropped to his knee which. with the German in a fox hole and the shooter on one knee the angle shown was possible.
is this what happened? we will never know for sure, but it's plausible and very likely. It's much easier to guess wounds during WWII. wounds now like in ukraine are typically far too violent 15:28 to the bodies. my war was desert shield and desert storm... where more troops were killed in car accidents, except for the Scud missile attack and blue on blue events. what's going on in Ukraine is horrific. I'm not a huge fan of Russians, but what's happening to the russian troops is rather shocking whether they deserve it is another topic. (likely 80% don't wish to be there.... If they run they get shot by their own troops, and if they stay they get killed by Ukraine forces (Rock and a hard place).
This Kurt Günther was shot in the Paris area, so foxholes and trenches are not very likely.
I am 100% sure that war is horrible.
One of your best videos yet! I assume you have copies of Knight's & de Maio.
You going to do the Luminal on that helmet with the blood in it you have???
Outstanding study. Thank you.
Those pictures are really sad.
Sniper, surely the most missused word in the English language. Most soldiers would have been shot at by an ordinary rifleman
But the word is so sexy!?
I'm not an expert, but for a bullet to penetrate the top of a helmet and the top of the head, it would have to be at minimum a rifle at best a sniper rifle at the limit of there effect range and not exit the skull. A sub machine gun with a low velocity shell like a 45 caliber would have to be at point blank range to have any hope of penetrating a WW2 steel curved helmet.
I agree this is damage by a rifle type bullet.
Always an outstanding video and presentation.
hey, this was good. I don't know why I've watched this, but it's very informative : )
Thanks. You may enjoy some of my other recent ir popular videos
very interesting video, thanks.
Excellent video, thanks for the information.
Another great video. Thank you for amazing work
Sheesh, now I'm not even sure Kurt is dead, I mean the evidence suggests it, but how can I be certain?
One cannot be sure of anything as long as one is plugged into the matrix.
Excellent explanations.
The suture lined don’t look closed and are still somewhat open.
Guess this mean he was pretty young. The head doesn’t look very big.
Soldiers in combat will always make themself as small as possible. In ww1, in ww2 and now in Ukraine.
this is an incredible video! Out of no where I got a lecture of reasoning.
Thanks
Thanks CT, really interesting info!!!
It mostly varies depending on the moon phase and the day of the week.
The tide indeed has a heavy influence on a bullet's trajectory.
Very interesting video. Without all the information its at best a stab in the dark.
There really are so many scenarios that without eyes on evidence its a guess. 👍👍
I agree with your assessment. Its clear that Kurt was not shot from an elevated position, but rather when his head was bent over, likely as he was looking down to reload his weapon.
I hope this is said tongue in cheek?
Bullets also don't fly straight after penetrating soft or hard material. They can be deflected in the head or even by the helmet to take on different angles or trajectory.
Your Videos and your content is always fantastic…. Thanks you so much
Christoph
Great video appreciate your forensic take on battlefield wounds
Brilliant analysis. The lessons from this could be applied to various present day things, as you suggested.
This is basic info that is applied every day at crime scenes. But in CSI, unlike in reality, everything is solved at first glance, giving laymen the impression that everything is easy.
Awesome video, as always
Alot of officers got shot in the back because they wouldn't listen to their sargents
Basement snipers are the sneakiest bunch.
Outstanding as always.
Thank you so much for the knowledge and insight you share with us.
Regarding the trajectory for the helmet of Kurt Günther: There is one important question to narrow down the position of the killer: Was he the first victim in an ambush or was the firefight already going. If I remember correctly the documents talked about an "Attentäter" or "Heckenschütze" and if he was the only casualty, it is likely he was hit from stealth and likely from an elevated position. But as you said, it is all speculation and with the limited knowledge about the incident, it will likely never be more than that.
The period docs says something like "shot in the head by Terrorists". He is the only guy of his unit t have been buried at that location on that day.
@@CrocodileTear Thx for clarifying the wording in the report. With that sentence and information all could be possible. Unsuspected close range attack, sniped from a window, died in a firefight while ducking behind some cover, etc etc. At least his comrades were more lucky that day.
We know that prehistoric man and Neanderthals took on big game, the ones that an atlatl or arrow most likely would not have brought down easily. We also know our early brethren learned quickly, and we’re most likely driving them toward cliffs, if possible, or knew to team up one at least on each side of a bear or mammoth and lunge behind the front leg at heart and lungs. Have you ever thought about this? Logic dictates what I have just alluded to, all other things being equal, to distract the beast in question. To limit or reduce injury to themselves or having to attack the wounded animal, now enraged, all over again.
Very interesting, thank you. Love your videos, keep up the good work 👏
We could use Occam's Razor to reduce the number of assumptions in order to figure out exactly what happened when the German soldier was shot through his helmet.
Excellent video!!!
Thanks buddy…
SMG round? Ppsh or other varient?
I think PPSh round, but hard to be sure since it has a rusty iron jacket.
Also high percentage of head wounds are cose lots of people use head as only part of body to get out of trench (to aim, spot, listen, watch ets). As sport shooter and hunter, i can confirm this is not sniper. Pistol range more than 50m is just a statistics. Try to shoot man running 25m from you with pistol is almost imposible. Movies will make you belive it can be done eazy. Not true. Anyway really good content and greetings from Slovenia
Indeed, I meantion in the video that the head being the most exposed part of a soldier, it will in any case have more than its 9% share of hits.
Stupid when misuse God's Name .I stop watching
14:04 'Face Palm'
this is absolutely an amazing video and i’m not an expert on ballistics but you have to keep in mind that some bullets ricochet around after entering so for example at 4:39 the exit hole on the thigh, on the left side demonstration could’ve been an entrance hole and the bullet bounced around and came his shin etc