"this is not for sissies. If you're not willing to do a little bit of work then it's not worth doing"! How many things in life does this apply to? The modern American seems to always be looking for convenience and they will pay twice as much for it. I tried to instill within my daughters not to pay a greater price for convenience but rather, if they pay a greater price do it to receive quality. And to put forth work worthy of their wage. I got off on a tangent. I really enjoyed this reloading series and learned more than I would have dreamed. Thank you!
Got the zip trim. Love it. Had to pay $50 bucks on Amazon for it. Also got the trimmer and gauges for all my calibers. I've now gone all Lee: Dies, Turrets and the progressive press that I use without progression. You sir have rejuvenated my hand loading! Thank you
Love the straight forward, easy to understand and wholly informative content of your videos. I know how much effort goes in to creating offerings like this. It is obvious you enjoy making these and sharing your knowledge and I appreciate it massively. Thank you.
I was hoping you would use the COAL number determined in the previous video and apply it to seating depth in this video. I presume with your method I would seat a projectile and measure from the base of the case to the tip of the projectile until I have reached the correct COAL, and I should probably use the same projectile for measuring and determining seating depth
Advice for the decamping pin wanting to push up. Pull the pin out and take 60 grit or a dremel with a rough sanding wheel or similar and rough the top of that pin up for the top 2” so the collet can get a bite. This will save u a lot of headache and u won’t have to over tighten the tension as u about have to strip it before u have it tight enough. Since I’ve done this I don’t ever have these problems. It’d be nice if lee would knerl them a bit
GunBlue....great series....picked up a tip or so even though I have loaded 20+ years. I like Lee equipment also even though I still use the Rock Chucker I bought when first starting. I use an old drill for holding and rotating my lee case length trimmer....I considered the pull cord trimmer you have but thought it might be fragile with the cord. I recently found my .243 case length to be long despite using a new case length trimmer....turns out the pin was short on the gauge...first one I have found to be inaccurate from Lee. I like the style of chamfer trimmer...note that yours is RCBS....I have same style made by Wilson...still good after 20 years. I use the same lee press for depriming and for a long time have used a Lee ram prime with another press for rifle. I like the looks of their new prming system called the auto bench priming tool. I have the turret press, but I have only used for pistol...may have to try it for rifle, but I have always cleaned primer pockets for rifle, and it is a hard habit to break. I was admiring the block shell holders you have made, so I made up several out of cherry wood. I found the 1/2 inch bit to be good for the holes for .308 (243, 7mm-08) cases. 3/8 is a tiny bit snug for .223 but works with a little extra manipulation. Is there any specific reason you decided to make 45 holes in the block instead of 50?....I realize that is a trivial question. Many thanks!!
Yes, I was using scraps left over from cherry cabinets, and it didn't leave me 50. Actually, 45 works perfectly when I'm loading 40 cases and I can use the last row to move them as I go. I have quite a number of blocks that I have made, and I have 50 and even 60 holers, so I'm not running out.
Thank you for making it so easy. One thing, is there a particular reason for trimming cartridge length before resizing? I understood it is better to trim after resizing because cartridge can grow during resizing.
Hi, I just wanted to say how helpful all your videos have been for me, and how much I've learned from them. My shooting has been getting progressively better since I started applying some of the things you've suggested, so thanks! I've got a question though: how important is it to crimp? And why should I do it? I've found so much conflicting information that I'm just not sure. Thanks again!
Crimping is not universally required, but is essential for particular applications. There are two situations where crimping should be applied. But there are reasons that it should not be. As for crimping, the first is for increasing bullet retention. Recoil can induce inertial bullet movement within a magazine that can affect overall length. The movement is progressively and sequentially worse with each shot, for the rounds that remain in the magazine. Heavier recoiling rifles are grossly affected, but even lighter calibers are susceptible if they are subjected to recoil repeatedly, as in large capacity magazines. Obviously, this does not apply to single shot situations. Some relatively vigorous recoiled resist bullet movement, when they have long case necks, as in many of the 30-06 family with light or medium weight bullets. The magnums are notorious for this condition, especially the short necked 300 Winchester Magnum. The other cause for bullet movement is cartridge cycling, where the round is subject to repeated reloading, as with duty or self defense pistols that are regularly unloaded and reloaded. The other condition that demands a heavy crimp are with slow burning powders that are difficult to ignite, and where bullet resistance is vital. Powders such as W-296 (same powder as H-110) simply will not ignite unless bullet crimp is very firm, leaving a bullet lodged in the barrel or forcing come from primer detonation, and a mess of unburned fine ball powder to clean from the mechanism, not to mention the anxiety and embarrassment. This also applies to certain large capacity magnum rifles, which can be a real horror, as these often cause delayed ignition, several seconds to a minute later, as embers cook and the shooter sweats. Reloading manuals are extremely important, as they publish these specific conditions. Such powders also require heavy ignition, using magnum primers, to kindle a reliable and consistent flame. Two negatives can apply to crimping; case fatigue at the case neck from work hardening, and some degree of accuracy loss, which is not necessarily to be expected, as crimping can contribute to more uniform resistance from shot to shot. You'll never find a bench rest shooter who crimps, whether it's helpful or not. A seldom mentioned benefit of crimping is with revolver cartridges, as a round roll crimp greatly eases loading into a cylinder, while it has little negative effect on case life. I always crimp under the following conditions: With ALL handgun cartridges. I recommend the Lee Factory Crimp Die as the best, period. Their crimp is not dependent on a cannelured bullet, and auto pistol rounds are sized over the bullet, greatly increasing hold and factory dimensions. So, each situation is a rule into itself, that you must assess. I hope I helped that assessment.
Was opening up and setting up new pacesetter dies earlier. Remembered your tip about cleaning them with mineral spirits. That was good advice. I found a number metal shavings that I removed with qtips. If you hadn't mentioned that I probably would have never noticed them. (not until they started scratching things anyway..)
Gunblue490, I love your instructional videos on RUclips. Thank you for taking the time to make things simple and understandable. I have a question about case length trimming. As you are talking about case preparation, you talked about maximum case length and what to trim your case to. You said that you don't like to trim your cases within 75% of the maximum case length. I am loading 243 Winchester cases. My Sierra manual says the maximum case length is 2.045. Are you saying that I should trim my cases to 75% of that number? 75% of 2.045 is 1.53375. Can you clarify that for me please?
Wow, I have watched this series over the past couple days and my brain feels full. I am about to get into reloading soon as I can get the equipment. Do you crimp non-cannelure bullets? I plan on reloading for magazine fed rifles and bolt guns. Do I need cannelure bullets for .223 rem in my magazine fed rifles? Or can you use either?Thank you for the effort and time you put into these videos. This is valuable information and I trust your expertise, I can tell you have actual knowledge and are not just spouting ego. Priceless.
The principle reason for cannelures is for bullet retention. Secondarily, they can provide some degree of uniformity in bullet release tension, though virtually all accuracy rifles and record breaking guns have used non crimped ammo, because other factors create that uniformity by more efficient means. Military and commercial ammo is always firmly crimped, for the sake of providing bullet retention with guns that have harsh cycling, as with autos. Crimping causes additional working of brass, which work hardens and reduces brass life, which should be taken into consideration. I only recommend crimping for auto rifles, as with AR and Mini 14 types, but only to the degree necessary to keep bullets from moving in cases during cycling, which is about a half crimp, and is barely visible. Cannelured bullets are not required with the Lee Factory Crimp Die, because it uses an enclosing collet that crushes the brass around the bullet. Other dies, which employ a progressive roll crimp, absolutely require cannelures, or cases will bulge and/or distort. Crimps are absolutely unnecessary for bolt action or other manual cycling rifles, unless they are very high recoiling, in conjunction with heavy bullets, where recoil inertia can move bullets while cartridges are still in the magazine. That being said, I have never had one bullet move in my 300 Winchester Magnum, even when used with heavy 200 grain bullets. Neck tension has always been sufficient. My suggestion is to employ a crimp when you find a circumstance that requires it, but don't use more than necessary.
GunBlue490 Thank you. I am planning to buy the Lee Loadmaster .223 system and then move to .308, 9mm and .45 acp. From your videos I have seen the Lee Loadmaster work properly and several advantages over the higher prices systems.
Yeah great comment and reply, ive been playing with varying degrees of crimping and not crimping while developing a load for my long range platform and have come to the conclusion that no crimp is the win but its nice to understand why!
Excellent video series!! I'm fairly new at reloading. Only rounds I have reloaded are 223. I have the same RCBS powder charge. I weigh every charge before putting it in the case. I guess that is a combination of paranoid and inexperience on my part. I assume that isn't necessary? Another question I have is what do you recommend for pulling bullets? I have researched pulling dies and hammers. Thank you for making fantastic videos! Your wealth of knowledge and the effort to share is greatly appreciated!
Gunblue490, do you recommend annealing fired bottleneck brass cartridges for the next reload? I have attended numerous recurrent classes and many instructors. It takes a special person whom is able to teach the subject in a way that the student truly learns and remains engaged. You are an excellent instructor and I'm blessed to have found you. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
So what would come first when working up a accurate load for my rifle? Getting the overall length of the cartridge that my rifle likes, or the amount of power my rifle likes? Do you just load a bunch of cartridges up with an average amount of power (below the max and above the start load amount) with varying overal lengths (.015 -.030 form the bullet touching the rifling). Find out what length your rifle likes and using that length use the ladder testing for powder? Or do you flip the 2?
Thank you so much I’m trying to pass this along as much as I can it won’t be long and bug tech will delete this kind of content all together. Thank you and God bless
I am new to reloading and I find your videos very helpful. One thing I have a question about is trimming and when to do it. I see a lot of people resize the brass before trimming it but in this video you trimmed first and the sized the brass. I don’t know if it matters when it comes to sizing or trimming first but wanted to ask you if there is a reason you trim first?
I’m not sure why he did that ,but I know u only need to trim the ones that are over the trim length so it probably doesn’t matter if before or after aslong as u don’t trim cases that don’t need trimming. One odd thing is ppl that always trim even when not needed then their cases end up short!!!! So doesn’t matter trim if over *max trim length.
I'm new to reloading and have been watching your series but have 2 questions. On trimming your cases , I thought you should resize before you trim and is it acceptable to have cases of varying size as long as you are not above the published data? I ask this because some of my .223 cases are below the trim to length so not all cases will be consistently the same length after trimming the long ones down. I also noticed that after you seated your bullets to the caneleur you didn't mic them to see where they where measurement wise. You showed how to find OAL, measuring the maximum length of the round and then backing off the lands with 30 thou, and not closer than 15 thou, and loading in steps of 5 thou in between etc. but then you never checked that length,,,did I miss something? Appreciate the time and effort you put into making these videos to help us newbies out! Alan from Ohio
Sir, just starting out. I am reloading 300 AAC Blackout. I am using once fired 300 BO brass. Once I decap I cannot get a new primer in without using a primer debur tool. If I even try without using the Lyman small primer tool , the primer won’t go in... am I doing something wrong?
I had assumed the case trimming step should be after the resizing step. This series shows it being done before resizing. Is this a fixed order or can it be done at either time?
Primer pockets is interesting, my best SD/ES came when i first started reloading and hadnt even bought a primer pocket cleaner yet! Ive not gone to flash hole de-burring yet, guess i better sort that out as it seems its more relevant than cleaning the pocket itself.
Watch my video about primers. Flash hole deburring maintains consistent flash distribution and assists uniformity. Primer pocket cleaning affects nothing. The primer is a self contained unit that works independently of what it sits in. Once it is tightly seated, the firing pin force against it is uniform. Watch my recent demonstration video with my 257 Roberts. Those flash holes have never been cleaned in over a dozen firings. The cases were deburred, and have been annealed three times, tumbled with old primers intact, neck sized, and trimmed as necessary. They are seven year old, standard Remington brass with fairly considerable weight deviation and are neck turned for concentricity. Certain things are very important, and I speak of them, but primer pocket cleaning is not one of them.
Would it be productive to leave just a hint of lube...,and I really mean a hint, on the newly loaded ammo so that the cartridge would opperate smoother as it travels up into the chamber?
@@roonbooks1418 no, because upon firing your cartridge expands griping in the chamber safely reducing back pressure. After firing is complete cartridge slightly retracts for extraction
@@roonbooks1418 As others have warned, any oil or lubrication on your finished ammo is a dangerous thing. It hinders the grip of the cartridge to the chamber when being fired and will cause more backward forces on the bolt. All loaded ammunition should be clean and dry with no oils on them.
Thanks a lot for creat info. I already used your great method to measure my maks length. A question pleases. To obtain best accuracy. If I work up a load I will obviously build my first test cartridges like in your videos, with progressive charges. Now when I find the best load, what is next. Loading up a test set with different O/L's. And if I find the best O/L Use that load, with that O/L and load a test set with different neck tension?
Hi GunBlue. Love the series so far. I am, however, confused about cleaning the brass that's been lubed with the Lee Lube after you primed it. How do you do that exactly without affecting the primer? Thanks.
Loaded ammo is completely water proof. There's nothing more watertight under pressure than brass to brass (or plated) fittings, which is how plumber's compression fittings work for gas and water. After you finish loading it, just put the loaded rounds back into the same tub you used to toss the brass with the Lee lube, add a few drops of Dawn dish detergent and fill it with warm water and simply swirl them around with your hand. Rinse with clear water, then dump onto a soft clean cotton towel and pat them dry. You will have sparkling ammo with no trace of lube.
You can shoot that ammo literally under water when your are done if you’ve done it correctly. The primer is now as safe as it can ever be. Don’t worry you can gently wash your ammo once it’s finished cartridges. This dude is 100% in it and I’ve yet to find him mistaken on anything. Even the most trivial misspoken words are extremely rare. Like a breath of fresh air, watching doesn’t make your brain hurt from sorting the bs out for anything of value. Love this guy. (However your brain may eventually hurt if you watch long enough due to learning better, more fundamental reasoning and science behind by things work, even things you already knew, but didn’t *really* fully know “the why behind the why”.) And it just clicks, because he does such a meticulously good job of laying out all the fundamentals and puts everything on the table, so to speak, that you will need in order to understand a concept behind a technique, or tool use, etc., and it’s rare to find someone who has taken that time, and is more concerned with giving you good information in a way that will be meaningful to you and be useful and possibly extremely valuable to your safety (and that of others). Really great service and I’m happy to deal with some commercials and I hope RUclips lets him keep them up and monetize this great and considerably valuable service. I feel like almost always, work on this level is inevitably a labor of love. Sorry kinda got off topic, but I don’t comment that often.
I have never seen that tool for trimming before, very interesting. I was just thinking it could also be used for lubricating your cases. Rub a dab of lube on your thumb and forefinger, put them on the case and give that handle a tug or two while moving your fingers up and down along the case. That would make quick work of case lubricating! Peace.
Greetings from the Great White North. Interesting times here with covid-19; hope all is well with you and yours. I'm curious about Lee resizing lubricant. The method you suggest (i.e. a dab or two in a tub, and rattle cartridges around the product ) seems fine; however, is there no concern of product making contact with shoulders? If so, what is the risk of shoulder contamination? Any thoughts/comments will be appreciated. Thank you.
I understand your concern. The important matters are to use the least amount, and to allow the product to dry. This tub method is the one I use for loading large batches of .223 Remington rounds with my Lee Loadmaster, by the hundreds. It will certainly get on the shoulders, but because it's dry and so slight, it causes no hydraulic dents. A very light haze on the case is all that's required. Be vigilant for cases that have an accumulation of lubricant and just wipe them off as they come through the process. I generally use a large 1/2 gallon plastic ice cream tub into which I place two or three very small dabs of lubricant. I toss in 150 or so at a time and shake around. If they have too much, I add more cases. If they're too dry, I add another dab. If I'm doing precision loading with a manual press with fewer cases involved, I just wipe off the necks and shoulders as I go.
@@GunBlue490 Good information - thank you. One further item: Is your (simple & effective) tub method applicable to de-primed brass (i.e. will residual lube in the primer pocket cause any issues?). FYI - I'm reloading .303 British. Thanks in advance.
Good afternoon from South Africa, I have watched all of your video's, great info on reloading as well as the history on all the different calibers and where they fit in. I do however have a question for you regarding seating depth. I have watched your video again on measuring the maximum length of the round and then backing off the lands with 30 thou, and not closer than 15 thou, and loading in steps of 5 thou in between. But what comes first, do you load a "known load" with different seating depth and see what yields the smallest groups, and then do power weight, or do you do your powder weight first and then use the best load and then adjust seating depth to further tune the load? Sorry If you did discuss this and I am just missing it, I would just like to know what process you use to determine the best seating depth for a specific bullet? (Also keeping in mind to seat at least a caliber deep.)
Thank you for your kind support. I have typically worked with 15 thousandths for load development, which is very often the best anyway. Once the best load is discovered, then I may try other seating depths, but most rifles like the bullet close. However, 30 thousandths is Nosler's recommended accuracy depth for their lead free bullets, which probably would be so with other brands of solid copper bullets as well. I don't know the rationale behind that, and I have not used them, but they claim it works.
Learnt sooo much from your videos. Thank you! Seems like I remember, from one of your previous lectures, that each rifle has a unique relationship with a particular manufacture's brass; at firing, a case will expand and self-size to the chamber of that rifle; so it's okay to only re-size the neck to avoid work-hardening the brass over time... ? I was going to buy a Lee neck re-sizer and forego re-sizing the main body of the case. Did I misunderstand? I just bought an, almost pristine, BSA 30-06 from my next-door-neighbor for $100. Do you have any info or thoughts on this rifle you could share? Again, thanks so much for your freely given, vast knowledge... if you had a Patreon account, I'd GLADLY contribute. God bless you and your family, from Cody, Wyoming!
You did, but I should have included single shot rifles, which can usually handle neck sized brass. Autos, pumps, and levers simply do not possess the camming leverage necessary to reliably chamber or extract brass that has not been fully restored to near factory dimensions. Autos, in particular, are chambered by means of a passive spring that has little closing force, and sometimes require special small base dies to more fully resize the case to prevent sticking. My Savage 99 is a case in point. I must use a conscious effort to fully close the bolt completely on cases that have been fully sized.
Gunblue490 . Thank you so much for this video series! I have many questions as I am a beginner. is it nessisary to trim straight case brass ? I am starting with 38 special and 357 magnum . also what type of bullets would be advisable for target rounds ? also do you recommend any brand of brass or I should say what company is preferable regarding brass, primers and bullets? again I thank you for your exellent common sense teaching? God bless.
tjmooremusic Trimming is necessary for cases that grow in length. That growth is caused by three particular stresses that are almost entirely related to bottle necked cases; the stretching of the case that fills the headspace dimension, the flow of brass forward during firing, and the stretching that occurs during the resizing process as the neck sizing button pulls out of the case neck. In all the many countless thousands of straightwall handgun cases that I have reloaded, including police training loads, I have never encountered the need for trimming.
GunBlue490 thanks for the info. and for the quick response. another question I gave is, I will be reloading 38 special and 357 magnum for both my revolver and levergun using 158 grain. could the loads be the same or should they vary? I'm also at odds to decide what kind of bullets to use.... I'm guessing that there would be choices. just trying to keep things simple. again I'm truly a beginner at this. thanks alot..
tjmooremusic The second answer is that I have no particular favorite brands of cases with regard to handguns. For the finest accuracy, it is always best to segregate brass, but I can also tell you that I competed in many official matches with mixed brass that was supplied by the department, and it never gave rise to accuracy issues. I have purchased Starline pistol brass on a number of occasions simply because they are often available in bulk at a reasonable cost, and are very satisfactory. They are great, but not necessarily any better. All brands of primers are of very fine quality, and are 100% reliable. Match grade primers are more slowly and meticulously produced, and undergo more rigorous quality control checks for uniformity, but are only potentially more uniform; they are no more reliable, nor notably more unifom for anyone but the most demanding accuracy shooter. In any given lot of standard grade primers, they can be every bit as accurate. The additional 25% or greater cost provides nothing that the vast majority of shooters would find truly advantageous. Remember that primers do have varying degrees of flash intensity between brands, so they should not be loaded haphazardly without individual testing. Bullet manufacturers offer countless different offerings; some directed at the hunting community, others for target shooting, and others for general plinking. Most hunting grade jacketed bullets are capable of match grade accuracy, though very expensive. Most pistol target bullets are non jacketed, and are often quite inexpensive in bulk. I recommend that you purchase good reloading manuals and become familiar with all these matters, as it's far more than I can answer in this format.
tjmooremusic Let me first clarify that 38 Special and 357 Magnum loads work at significantly different pressures, and load data cannot be shared. It is entirely permissible to lower the operating pressure of 357 Magnum loads to nearly 38 Special levels, but only to the minimum specifically given in recognized data. For highest accuracy, you should develop loads in your handgun and rifle separately. It is entirely possible and preferable, in my view, to arrive at a load that gives good performance in both, but that is nit always easy to arrive at. Any given load will always deliver higher velocities in longer barrels, which can be quite significant when comparing rifle to handgun. Under NO circumstances, should the loader ever presume that a rifle can operate at greater pressure levels than a handgun, unless specifically stated in a manual. Remember that modern pressure levels are typically defined by the cartridge, and not by the firearm, except in specific very well established and approved circumstances (ie, 45 Colt, 45-70 Gov't) that do not apply to either of the rounds you are loading.
Crimping is used to prevent bullet movement in either cycling or as a result of recoil. Most auto cycling gun ammo should be crimped, only as needed to prevent bullet movement. Heavy handgun rounds are always crimped, according to their design. Do it only if required, according to your own usage.
nono559 Bullets have no predetermined seating depth. The depth is determined by the handloader, on the basis of the minimum overall length of a cartridge, chamber length, magazine length, and a supportive bullet to case contact. Please review my video, as I cover those issues. Minimum overall length is stated in all manuals for every bullet made in America, which allows for proper and safe pressures with the loads they list. But the maximum can be far greater, which you assess. Of course, a bullet cannot exceed the chamber length, or the action will not close, and there should generally be at least .015 clearance to the rifling, unless you are a benchrest shooter. Of course, cartridges cannot be longer than their magazine, unless individually loaded. Some bullets come with crimping grooves, called cannelures, but they can be ignored unless deep crimping is required for heavy recoiling loads, or for simply appearance. The general minimum seating depth for reliable durability is one caliber deep, so a 30 caliber bullet should be seated a minimum of .308. But the 300 Savage never had a 308 long neck, and they never suffered in normal use. Handloading requires a person to use some essential critical thinking skills, in conjunction with established practices.
I did a two part video on loading the 45 with the Lee Loadmaster. It covers the various dies, and what they do, even if used without a progressive press.
Gunblue490, why did you trim before full-length sizing? Everything I've read has said to trim after full-length sizing, because the sizing process lengthens the case.
Adam Taylor I've done it either way. I have measured brass both ways, and it makes no difference in the long run. It's like driving a racetrack and stopping for pit stops. The brass will eventually lengthen exactly the same amount during the shooting/reloading cycle, whether done before or after. It's usually less disruptive to do all loading steps together, especially on progressive systems. I have never measured more than .001 growth after sizing, which is nothing. Sizing stretch is caused by expander ball dragging on dry case necks. One stroke of a case neck brush before sizing eliminates dragging entirely.
Interesting. I'm not saying you're wrong, but my experience has been different. If I cut to length then resize, I can have up to a 0.03" change in case length. So I always resize first, then cut to length. whatever works for each of us I suppose.
I would get the RCBS electric powder dispenser and the bench top primer installer so as to eliminate all this fuss and monkey business or if your only doing 20 rounds weigh them out and be done, now if you want plinking ammo 223 or similar than set the powder dump for hundreds of rounds, sure wish I bought the previous equipment years ago would have been a whole lot less frustrating and easier on the hands, good luck.
Wayne Bailey I get a kick out of these arguments that go around and around. The simple answer is that it makes no difference whatsoever. The greater question is what is suitable for the circumstances and conveniences at hand. The only reason one trims a case is to prevent it from exceeding the chamber length, which is a specified limit. If, for instance, one is loading a 243 Winchester cartridge, the SAAMI case length cannot be greater than 2.045 inches, or it will exceed the length of the chamber on firing, and will crimp the bullet as it exits the case, causing excessive and dangerous internal pressures. The chamber length is slightly longer to account for the growth of the case when it is at maximum allowable length. In practical use, however, loading manuals provide a "trim to length" dimension that is traditionally ten thousandths shy of the maximum, which provides the convenience of more than one firing between trimmings, and also allows for such events where a case may grow during firing inordinately long, beyond chamber size. So, the trim length of the 243 is stated to be 2.035 inches. But it could as well be 2.038, 2.042, or the maximum of 2.045. If you trim a case prior to sizing, the sizing process may cause the case to grow by one or two thousandths, but they will all grow together, if they do at all. If you trim after sizing, they will also be the same. I have trimmed either way, and it makes no difference whatsoever. Certain trimming devices are made for post sized cases, while others which solidly secure the case, as with my Forster, are not. The Lee trimmer requires that the primer pocket is empty, but it will work with simply decapped cases; whether they are sized has nothing to do with their system either. As to the issue of cases being of uniform length when within allowable length, I have this to say: if I am loading my accurate bolt varmint gun, I will pester myself to fuss with trimming all cases to the same length. If I am loading for my stock 223 AR-15 or Remington pump, the issue is rather moot; such fussiness is not going to be rewarded in any material way in the least, with such factors overwhelmingly obscured by creepy triggers, poor bedding, and market grade barrels. Your only concern is to stay within the maximum overall length. In fact, if you accidentally trim somewhat shorter than the trim length, the sky will not fall.
Sir if the maximum charge is 40 grains wouldn’t 42.5 grains go over the maximum? So if it’s 40grains and you go down 10 percent would that start you off at 39.6grains?
nono559 If 40 grains is maximum, that's the maximum, yes. I'm not clear on what you are referring to, if you will placemark the time on the video. I think I stated in this video that to find the ten percent starting point, simply move the decimal over one place. Incremental test loads are one decimal more, or one hundredth of the maximum load, rounded off to the nearest tenth of a grain. So, your 40 grain max load starts at ten percent below, which is 4 grains less (36 grains), and the incremental test loads increase by 4 tenths of a grain for each lot, stopping at 40 grains. For a modern, strong firearm in good condition, most experienced loaders consider it unecesssary to go back a full ten percent, unless you wish to. But never go back more than the minimum recommended load given in a loading manual, as some slow burning powders react unfavorably.
Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; So a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. Whoso keepeth the fig tree shall eat the fruit thereof: So he that waiteth on his master shall be honoured.
Again just love your videos. Question: When i setup my factory crimp die for 308w like you did here, it doesn't touch my case at all and i can move then shell/bullet around. The same goes for the bullet seating die, it never makes contact with my casing and always hit the ram first. Also using same lee setup as you. I have the ram up with the case inside, turn the die down untill my case can't be moved. Then i add 1/4 turn. Is this wrong? I have seen so many video about the factory crim die, all shows the same as you. But this adds zero contact with my case
Frode Hanssen Your dies come packed with detailed instructions, but let me see if I can help. Put aside all your cases, because they have nothing to do with adjustment of either your sizing die or factory crimping die. There is no room to get a piece of paper between a properly adjusted die and shell holder, let alone fingers to twirl cases. As to the factory crimp die, remove your die from the press, then raise your ram with the shell holder in it to its top position, and be sure it stays there. Put your knee against the handle so it stays up. Back the die lock ring off and screw your die in until the sliding collet touches the shell holder firmly. Looking down from above, note the four segments. Those are the fingers that squeeze the case around the bullet. Tightening the die after contact will increase the crimp. But NEVER adjust beyond the point that the gaps close, as this is far too much stress on your die and press, and is far more than needed for any cartridge. For the 308, a light crimp will perform nicely, without unnecessary work hardening of the brass. As to the sizing die, again with no brass, repeat the same process of raising the ram to the top, lower the die body until it contacts the shell holder. Release pressure on the ram and lower the die another quarter turn. You should be able to work the ram to full extension, but the die will take all mechanical spring out of the system. Be sure you properly lubricate your cases according to my recent case lube video before resizing... not excessively. FYI, crimping is not required for bolt action rifles, so use only a light crimp... about 1/2 turn at most. Heavy recoiling rifles and autos can benefit from 3/4 turn, but don't overdo, as it will provide no benefit at all, and shorten brass life.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. My English isn't the best, so might have explained it a bit wrong. The space is around the 4 crimp arms and bullet. And with finger on bullet tip, i can move it around still. The instruction says "Turn the die until it touches the shell holder", doesn't say anything about firmly. If i fasten the die with ram up as much i can with fingers then it actually make a crimp. So i guess it's about how firmly then :) Do you not use crimp on the bullet seating die for 308? Regarding the full size die, i just find it a bit confusing when i sometimes see reference to "touching the case", since for me it's always the shell holder the die stops at (as the instructions also says). Side question. I struggle with accuracy on cannelured bullets (Hornady 150 FMJ-BT, and 165 Interlock BTSP) after testing out many different powder charges, and would love to hear your thoughts about ignore seating the bullets to cannelure and use bigger/smaler col. Oh and yes, i have watched a lot of your movies. RUclips on TV and relaxing with coffee to your movies, and needles to say im hooked on the theory behind rifle shooting and reloading :)
Frode Hanssen The crimp die works independently of the bullet seating process, after the entire loading operation, and can even be performed on previously loaded rounds. Watch the fingers as they close together, as you raise the ram without the cartridge in place. Compression of the die collet against the shell holder progressively closes the fingers, and makes the crimp. Simply contacting the die with the shell holder does nothing. Sizing dies must always tightly contact the shell holder. The case is resized as it is forced into the lubricated die. If you feel no force being exerted, the brass is not being sized. The effort to resize brass cases is sufficient to require the press that can apply over a ton of pressure. Most bullets have no cannelure, simply because they are rarely necessary. The placement of the crimp at the cannelure is necessary with regular sizing dies, when adjusted to apply a crimp, but the Lee Factory Crimp Die makes its own, anywhere you desire, on any type of bullet, irregardless of the cannelure made by Hornady or whomever. The bullet jump from the lands, magazine length, and overall length are the sole deciding factors. I have a video that discusses these issues and the measurement of overall length determination in full. Using a crimp on a cartridge is entirely unnecessary, except for the types of conditions I mentioned in the previous note, above.
I see i did write wrong. I did mean the bullet seating die, not full resize die. And just figured out that my bullet seating die does not have crimp.. So of course it will not touch the case :) Didn't see before now that Lee have bullet seating die with and without crimp, i just assumed they was the same. But i guess the instructions for factory crimp die is wrong then. Copy and past from instruction: "Screw the Lee Factory Crimp Die in to touch the shell holder, plus ½ turn more. " When it touch the shell holder, i can still turn it 1 full turn by hand before it stops. Then i have to lower the arm for to turn more. Yes, i watched the movie about finding COL and subtract 0,03". I was just wondering if bullets with cannelure, needed to be seated to the cannelure. Or can the cannelure be above shell neck. When you don't plan to crimp at all.
Excellent question! Either way works, but the question boils down to the greater of two issues. Sizing first allows the most efficient trimming, after any stretch caused by pulling the case over the extractor, if there is any. Sizing after trimming corrects any possible distortion caused by the trimming process. I've experienced little resize lengthening with cases, as most lengthening occurs during firing. On the other hand, I have experienced some, albeit minor, distortion caused by handling during the trimming that affects cartridge runnout, which certainly can have a serious negative effect on accuracy. The former is an efficiency issue, whereas the latter is an accuracy issue. In reality, there's no practical difference, except in terms of convenience. Convenience wise, the Zip Trim is better suited to the method shown, as the clearance is rather tight on the case length gauge after sizing, and can easily leverage the case sideways and distort it. With the Forster trimmer, I always size first, as you suggested, because the pilot and chuck maintain the case in perfect alignment. And that's best!
you should look into setting up a Patreon account for yourself so folks like us can donate some cash to give back a little something for your time. you could get yourself some more reloading materials or new firearms to make videos on for the channel.
It appears that I am only neck sizing my brass even though I am using the same technique you used for the full length sizing die. They are never fired cases so that shouldn't be an issue for the first firing. I think that they are only being sized at the neck because there is now a small ring around every neck. Is this normal?
That's absolutely not true. Standard case trimming reduces length ten thousandths of an inch, and no properly lubricated case of any sort will lengthen more than a thousandth during sizing. I've conducted numerous tests on cleaned and uncleaned primer pockets over the course of 45 years with many very precise sub-MOA rifles and no amount of cleaning makes any difference whatsoever. If you enjoy doing it, that's fine, but it's entirely a wasteful endeavor that soothes only the fussy mind, not the gun. What does matter is removal of the inner burr with a deburring tool for a new case, which improves flash uniformity.
@@GunBlue490 Repeated seating of primers in a primer pocket without cleaning may cause a high primer , and i have had cases lengthen 5-7 one 1000 of an inch in resizing them . I have also been reloading for 45 years , and my concern is not MOA results but i am just saying i have always resized before trimming and that is what i teach in my classes , and i clean my primer pockets over a tissue i always get a lot burnt flakes. As me being a fussy mind , I was a Dental Tech. for 30 years and was raised by my father a Master Dental Tech to do everything you can to make the product the best it can be , So i am sorry i am so fussy
"this is not for sissies. If you're not willing to do a little bit of work then it's not worth doing"! How many things in life does this apply to? The modern American seems to always be looking for convenience and they will pay twice as much for it. I tried to instill within my daughters not to pay a greater price for convenience but rather, if they pay a greater price do it to receive quality. And to put forth work worthy of their wage. I got off on a tangent. I really enjoyed this reloading series and learned more than I would have dreamed. Thank you!
I've been loading for quite a few years and I still learned something from this video. Thanks!!
Got the zip trim. Love it. Had to pay $50 bucks on Amazon for it. Also got the trimmer and gauges for all my calibers. I've now gone all Lee: Dies, Turrets and the progressive press that I use without progression. You sir have rejuvenated my hand loading! Thank you
Thank you so much for this excellent series. I've been reloading for years, but I learned many new tricks of the trade from you.
Always good to review what and why we do what we do.great refresher thanks
Love the straight forward, easy to understand and wholly informative content of your videos. I know how much effort goes in to creating offerings like this. It is obvious you enjoy making these and sharing your knowledge and I appreciate it massively. Thank you.
been using that Lee sizing lube since 2004. Love it.
I was hoping you would use the COAL number determined in the previous video and apply it to seating depth in this video. I presume with your method I would seat a projectile and measure from the base of the case to the tip of the projectile until I have reached the correct COAL, and I should probably use the same projectile for measuring and determining seating depth
Advice for the decamping pin wanting to push up. Pull the pin out and take 60 grit or a dremel with a rough sanding wheel or similar and rough the top of that pin up for the top 2” so the collet can get a bite. This will save u a lot of headache and u won’t have to over tighten the tension as u about have to strip it before u have it tight enough. Since I’ve done this I don’t ever have these problems. It’d be nice if lee would knerl them a bit
GunBlue....great series....picked up a tip or so even though I have loaded 20+ years. I like Lee equipment also even though I still use the Rock Chucker I bought when first starting. I use an old drill for holding and rotating my lee case length trimmer....I considered the pull cord trimmer you have but thought it might be fragile with the cord. I recently found my .243 case length to be long despite using a new case length trimmer....turns out the pin was short on the gauge...first one I have found to be inaccurate from Lee. I like the style of chamfer trimmer...note that yours is RCBS....I have same style made by Wilson...still good after 20 years. I use the same lee press for depriming and for a long time have used a Lee ram prime with another press for rifle. I like the looks of their new prming system called the auto bench priming tool. I have the turret press, but I have only used for pistol...may have to try it for rifle, but I have always cleaned primer pockets for rifle, and it is a hard habit to break.
I was admiring the block shell holders you have made, so I made up several out of cherry wood. I found the 1/2 inch bit to be good for the holes for .308 (243, 7mm-08) cases. 3/8 is a tiny bit snug for .223 but works with a little extra manipulation. Is there any specific reason you decided to make 45 holes in the block instead of 50?....I realize that is a trivial question. Many thanks!!
Yes, I was using scraps left over from cherry cabinets, and it didn't leave me 50. Actually, 45 works perfectly when I'm loading 40 cases and I can use the last row to move them as I go. I have quite a number of blocks that I have made, and I have 50 and even 60 holers, so I'm not running out.
Thank you so much for this series!
Thank you for making it so easy. One thing, is there a particular reason for trimming cartridge length before resizing? I understood it is better to trim after resizing because cartridge can grow during resizing.
Hi, I just wanted to say how helpful all your videos have been for me, and how much I've learned from them. My shooting has been getting progressively better since I started applying some of the things you've suggested, so thanks! I've got a question though: how important is it to crimp? And why should I do it? I've found so much conflicting information that I'm just not sure. Thanks again!
Crimping is not universally required, but is essential for particular applications. There are two situations where crimping should be applied. But there are reasons that it should not be. As for crimping, the first is for increasing bullet retention. Recoil can induce inertial bullet movement within a magazine that can affect overall length. The movement is progressively and sequentially worse with each shot, for the rounds that remain in the magazine. Heavier recoiling rifles are grossly affected, but even lighter calibers are susceptible if they are subjected to recoil repeatedly, as in large capacity magazines. Obviously, this does not apply to single shot situations. Some relatively vigorous recoiled resist bullet movement, when they have long case necks, as in many of the 30-06 family with light or medium weight bullets. The magnums are notorious for this condition, especially the short necked 300 Winchester Magnum. The other cause for bullet movement is cartridge cycling, where the round is subject to repeated reloading, as with duty or self defense pistols that are regularly unloaded and reloaded.
The other condition that demands a heavy crimp are with slow burning powders that are difficult to ignite, and where bullet resistance is vital. Powders such as W-296 (same powder as H-110) simply will not ignite unless bullet crimp is very firm, leaving a bullet lodged in the barrel or forcing come from primer detonation, and a mess of unburned fine ball powder to clean from the mechanism, not to mention the anxiety and embarrassment. This also applies to certain large capacity magnum rifles, which can be a real horror, as these often cause delayed ignition, several seconds to a minute later, as embers cook and the shooter sweats. Reloading manuals are extremely important, as they publish these specific conditions. Such powders also require heavy ignition, using magnum primers, to kindle a reliable and consistent flame.
Two negatives can apply to crimping; case fatigue at the case neck from work hardening, and some degree of accuracy loss, which is not necessarily to be expected, as crimping can contribute to more uniform resistance from shot to shot. You'll never find a bench rest shooter who crimps, whether it's helpful or not.
A seldom mentioned benefit of crimping is with revolver cartridges, as a round roll crimp greatly eases loading into a cylinder, while it has little negative effect on case life.
I always crimp under the following conditions: With ALL handgun cartridges. I recommend the Lee Factory Crimp Die as the best, period. Their crimp is not dependent on a cannelured bullet, and auto pistol rounds are sized over the bullet, greatly increasing hold and factory dimensions.
So, each situation is a rule into itself, that you must assess. I hope I helped that assessment.
and ive been scrubbing my brass all these years!!!
Was opening up and setting up new pacesetter dies earlier. Remembered your tip about cleaning them with mineral spirits. That was good advice. I found a number metal shavings that I removed with qtips. If you hadn't mentioned that I probably would have never noticed them. (not until they started scratching things anyway..)
Gunblue490 on the previous video, what about the headspace part you took measurements, how did you apply to seating the bullets?
Gunblue490, I love your instructional videos on RUclips. Thank you for taking the time to make things simple and understandable. I have a question about case length trimming. As you are talking about case preparation, you talked about maximum case length and what to trim your case to. You said that you don't like to trim your cases within 75% of the maximum case length. I am loading 243 Winchester cases. My Sierra manual says the maximum case length is 2.045. Are you saying that I should trim my cases to 75% of that number? 75% of 2.045 is 1.53375. Can you clarify that for me please?
Why did we do the over all length settings if we don't use it , or did I miss something ?
Wow, I have watched this series over the past couple days and my brain feels full. I am about to get into reloading soon as I can get the equipment. Do you crimp non-cannelure bullets? I plan on reloading for magazine fed rifles and bolt guns. Do I need cannelure bullets for .223 rem in my magazine fed rifles? Or can you use either?Thank you for the effort and time you put into these videos. This is valuable information and I trust your expertise, I can tell you have actual knowledge and are not just spouting ego. Priceless.
The principle reason for cannelures is for bullet retention. Secondarily, they can provide some degree of uniformity in bullet release tension, though virtually all accuracy rifles and record breaking guns have used non crimped ammo, because other factors create that uniformity by more efficient means.
Military and commercial ammo is always firmly crimped, for the sake of providing bullet retention with guns that have harsh cycling, as with autos. Crimping causes additional working of brass, which work hardens and reduces brass life, which should be taken into consideration. I only recommend crimping for auto rifles, as with AR and Mini 14 types, but only to the degree necessary to keep bullets from moving in cases during cycling, which is about a half crimp, and is barely visible. Cannelured bullets are not required with the Lee Factory Crimp Die, because it uses an enclosing collet that crushes the brass around the bullet. Other dies, which employ a progressive roll crimp, absolutely require cannelures, or cases will bulge and/or distort.
Crimps are absolutely unnecessary for bolt action or other manual cycling rifles, unless they are very high recoiling, in conjunction with heavy bullets, where recoil inertia can move bullets while cartridges are still in the magazine. That being said, I have never had one bullet move in my 300 Winchester Magnum, even when used with heavy 200 grain bullets. Neck tension has always been sufficient. My suggestion is to employ a crimp when you find a circumstance that requires it, but don't use more than necessary.
GunBlue490 Thank you. I am planning to buy the Lee Loadmaster .223 system and then move to .308, 9mm and .45 acp. From your videos I have seen the Lee Loadmaster work properly and several advantages over the higher prices systems.
This is a great comment. I totally understand the brain hurt part. Doesn’t matter if you’ve been reloading for a while this guy is a library.
Yeah great comment and reply, ive been playing with varying degrees of crimping and not crimping while developing a load for my long range platform and have come to the conclusion that no crimp is the win but its nice to understand why!
Excellent video series!! I'm fairly new at reloading. Only rounds I have reloaded are 223. I have the same RCBS powder charge. I weigh every charge before putting it in the case. I guess that is a combination of paranoid and inexperience on my part. I assume that isn't necessary? Another question I have is what do you recommend for pulling bullets? I have researched pulling dies and hammers. Thank you for making fantastic videos! Your wealth of knowledge and the effort to share is greatly appreciated!
i weigh every charge with a balance scale. Nothing wrong with that.
Gunblue490, do you recommend annealing fired bottleneck brass cartridges for the next reload? I have attended numerous recurrent classes and many instructors. It takes a special person whom is able to teach the subject in a way that the student truly learns and remains engaged. You are an excellent instructor and I'm blessed to have found you. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
So what would come first when working up a accurate load for my rifle? Getting the overall length of the cartridge that my rifle likes, or the amount of power my rifle likes? Do you just load a bunch of cartridges up with an average amount of power (below the max and above the start load amount) with varying overal lengths (.015 -.030 form the bullet touching the rifling). Find out what length your rifle likes and using that length use the ladder testing for powder? Or do you flip the 2?
Thank you so much I’m trying to pass this along as much as I can it won’t be long and bug tech will delete this kind of content all together. Thank you and God bless
I am new to reloading and I find your videos very helpful. One thing I have a question about is trimming and when to do it. I see a lot of people resize the brass before trimming it but in this video you trimmed first and the sized the brass. I don’t know if it matters when it comes to sizing or trimming first but wanted to ask you if there is a reason you trim first?
I’m not sure why he did that ,but I know u only need to trim the ones that are over the trim length so it probably doesn’t matter if before or after aslong as u don’t trim cases that don’t need trimming. One odd thing is ppl that always trim even when not needed then their cases end up short!!!! So doesn’t matter trim if over *max trim length.
I'm new to reloading and have been watching your series but have 2 questions. On trimming your cases , I thought you should resize before you trim and is it acceptable to have cases of varying size as long as you are not above the published data? I ask this because some of my .223 cases are below the trim to length so not all cases will be consistently the same length after trimming the long ones down. I also noticed that after you seated your bullets to the caneleur you didn't mic them to see where they where measurement wise. You showed how to find OAL, measuring the maximum length of the round and then backing off the lands with 30 thou, and not closer than 15 thou, and loading in steps of 5 thou in between etc. but then you never checked that length,,,did I miss something? Appreciate the time and effort you put into making these videos to help us newbies out! Alan from Ohio
Sir, just starting out. I am reloading 300 AAC Blackout. I am using once fired 300 BO brass. Once I decap I cannot get a new primer in without using a primer debur tool. If I even try without using the Lyman small primer tool , the primer won’t go in... am I doing something wrong?
I had assumed the case trimming step should be after the resizing step. This series shows it being done before resizing. Is this a fixed order or can it be done at either time?
Primer pockets is interesting, my best SD/ES came when i first started reloading and hadnt even bought a primer pocket cleaner yet! Ive not gone to flash hole de-burring yet, guess i better sort that out as it seems its more relevant than cleaning the pocket itself.
Watch my video about primers. Flash hole deburring maintains consistent flash distribution and assists uniformity. Primer pocket cleaning affects nothing. The primer is a self contained unit that works independently of what it sits in. Once it is tightly seated, the firing pin force against it is uniform. Watch my recent demonstration video with my 257 Roberts. Those flash holes have never been cleaned in over a dozen firings. The cases were deburred, and have been annealed three times, tumbled with old primers intact, neck sized, and trimmed as necessary. They are seven year old, standard Remington brass with fairly considerable weight deviation and are neck turned for concentricity. Certain things are very important, and I speak of them, but primer pocket cleaning is not one of them.
Would it be productive to leave just a hint of lube...,and I really mean a hint, on the newly loaded ammo so that the cartridge would opperate smoother as it travels up into the chamber?
@@roonbooks1418 no, because upon firing your cartridge expands griping in the chamber safely reducing back pressure. After firing is complete cartridge slightly retracts for extraction
@@roonbooks1418 As others have warned, any oil or lubrication on your finished ammo is a dangerous thing. It hinders the grip of the cartridge to the chamber when being fired and will cause more backward forces on the bolt. All loaded ammunition should be clean and dry with no oils on them.
Thanks a lot for creat info. I already used your great method to measure my maks length.
A question pleases.
To obtain best accuracy.
If I work up a load I will obviously build my first test cartridges like in your videos, with progressive charges. Now when I find the best load, what is next.
Loading up a test set with different O/L's. And if I find the best O/L
Use that load, with that O/L and load a test set with different neck tension?
Although I have been reloading for a few years I learned a lot from your video. Ive also spent money on things I don't need.
Bless you.
Joseph T.
I have a bunch on new 7MM Remington Brass and the flash holes are not centered in them. Will this cause accuracy problems?
Hi GunBlue. Love the series so far. I am, however, confused about cleaning the brass that's been lubed with the Lee Lube after you primed it. How do you do that exactly without affecting the primer? Thanks.
Loaded ammo is completely water proof. There's nothing more watertight under pressure than brass to brass (or plated) fittings, which is how plumber's compression fittings work for gas and water. After you finish loading it, just put the loaded rounds back into the same tub you used to toss the brass with the Lee lube, add a few drops of Dawn dish detergent and fill it with warm water and simply swirl them around with your hand. Rinse with clear water, then dump onto a soft clean cotton towel and pat them dry. You will have sparkling ammo with no trace of lube.
You can shoot that ammo literally under water when your are done if you’ve done it correctly. The primer is now as safe as it can ever be. Don’t worry you can gently wash your ammo once it’s finished cartridges. This dude is 100% in it and I’ve yet to find him mistaken on anything. Even the most trivial misspoken words are extremely rare. Like a breath of fresh air, watching doesn’t make your brain hurt from sorting the bs out for anything of value. Love this guy. (However your brain may eventually hurt if you watch long enough due to learning better, more fundamental reasoning and science behind by things work, even things you already knew, but didn’t *really* fully know “the why behind the why”.) And it just clicks, because he does such a meticulously good job of laying out all the fundamentals and puts everything on the table, so to speak, that you will need in order to understand a concept behind a technique, or tool use, etc., and it’s rare to find someone who has taken that time, and is more concerned with giving you good information in a way that will be meaningful to you and be useful and possibly extremely valuable to your safety (and that of others). Really great service and I’m happy to deal with some commercials and I hope RUclips lets him keep them up and monetize this great and considerably valuable service. I feel like almost always, work on this level is inevitably a labor of love.
Sorry kinda got off topic, but I don’t comment that often.
@@GunBlue490 Is the final product waterproof if it isn't crimped?
Do you have the powder dispenser(s) grounded for static?
i mainly load pistol cartridges, what differs in the reloading processes? i am a beginner so please excuse dumb questions.
I have never seen that tool for trimming before, very interesting. I was just thinking it could also be used for lubricating your cases. Rub a dab of lube on your thumb and forefinger, put them on the case and give that handle a tug or two while moving your fingers up and down along the case. That would make quick work of case lubricating!
Peace.
Terrific.
Greetings from the Great White North. Interesting times here with covid-19; hope all is well with you and yours. I'm curious about Lee resizing lubricant. The method you suggest (i.e. a dab or two in a tub, and rattle cartridges around the product ) seems fine; however, is there no concern of product making contact with shoulders? If so, what is the risk of shoulder contamination? Any thoughts/comments will be appreciated. Thank you.
I understand your concern. The important matters are to use the least amount, and to allow the product to dry. This tub method is the one I use for loading large batches of .223 Remington rounds with my Lee Loadmaster, by the hundreds. It will certainly get on the shoulders, but because it's dry and so slight, it causes no hydraulic dents. A very light haze on the case is all that's required. Be vigilant for cases that have an accumulation of lubricant and just wipe them off as they come through the process. I generally use a large 1/2 gallon plastic ice cream tub into which I place two or three very small dabs of lubricant. I toss in 150 or so at a time and shake around. If they have too much, I add more cases. If they're too dry, I add another dab. If I'm doing precision loading with a manual press with fewer cases involved, I just wipe off the necks and shoulders as I go.
@@GunBlue490 Good information - thank you. One further item: Is your (simple & effective) tub method applicable to de-primed brass (i.e. will residual lube in the primer pocket cause any issues?). FYI - I'm reloading .303 British. Thanks in advance.
Also is the crimp needed?
Good afternoon from South Africa, I have watched all of your video's, great info on reloading as well as the history on all the different calibers and where they fit in. I do however have a question for you regarding seating depth. I have watched your video again on measuring the maximum length of the round and then backing off the lands with 30 thou, and not closer than 15 thou, and loading in steps of 5 thou in between. But what comes first, do you load a "known load" with different seating depth and see what yields the smallest groups, and then do power weight, or do you do your powder weight first and then use the best load and then adjust seating depth to further tune the load?
Sorry If you did discuss this and I am just missing it, I would just like to know what process you use to determine the best seating depth for a specific bullet? (Also keeping in mind to seat at least a caliber deep.)
Thank you for your kind support. I have typically worked with 15 thousandths for load development, which is very often the best anyway. Once the best load is discovered, then I may try other seating depths, but most rifles like the bullet close. However, 30 thousandths is Nosler's recommended accuracy depth for their lead free bullets, which probably would be so with other brands of solid copper bullets as well. I don't know the rationale behind that, and I have not used them, but they claim it works.
Thank you for your reply and clearing that up for me, I appreciate it very much. God Bless.
Learnt sooo much from your videos. Thank you!
Seems like I remember, from one of your previous lectures, that each rifle has a unique relationship with a particular manufacture's brass; at firing, a case will expand and self-size to the chamber of that rifle; so it's okay to only re-size the neck to avoid work-hardening the brass over time... ? I was going to buy a Lee neck re-sizer and forego re-sizing the main body of the case. Did I misunderstand?
I just bought an, almost pristine, BSA 30-06 from my next-door-neighbor for $100. Do you have any info or thoughts on this rifle you could share?
Again, thanks so much for your freely given, vast knowledge... if you had a Patreon account, I'd GLADLY contribute.
God bless you and your family, from Cody, Wyoming!
Did I heard correctly, you should only neck size a case if you are using a bolt action? Thanks
You did, but I should have included single shot rifles, which can usually handle neck sized brass. Autos, pumps, and levers simply do not possess the camming leverage necessary to reliably chamber or extract brass that has not been fully restored to near factory dimensions. Autos, in particular, are chambered by means of a passive spring that has little closing force, and sometimes require special small base dies to more fully resize the case to prevent sticking. My Savage 99 is a case in point. I must use a conscious effort to fully close the bolt completely on cases that have been fully sized.
Gunblue490 . Thank you so much for this video series! I have many questions as I am a beginner.
is it nessisary to trim straight case brass ? I am starting with 38 special and 357 magnum .
also what type of bullets would be advisable for target rounds ?
also do you recommend any brand of brass or I should say what company is preferable regarding brass, primers and bullets?
again I thank you for your exellent common sense teaching?
God bless.
tjmooremusic
Trimming is necessary for cases that grow in length. That growth is caused by three particular stresses that are almost entirely related to bottle necked cases; the stretching of the case that fills the headspace dimension, the flow of brass forward during firing, and the stretching that occurs during the resizing process as the neck sizing button pulls out of the case neck. In all the many countless thousands of straightwall handgun cases that I have reloaded, including police training loads, I have never encountered the need for trimming.
GunBlue490
thanks for the info.
and for the quick response.
another question I gave is,
I will be reloading 38 special and 357 magnum for both my revolver and levergun using 158 grain. could the loads be the same or should they vary?
I'm also at odds to decide what kind of bullets to use....
I'm guessing that there would be choices. just trying to keep things simple. again I'm truly a beginner at this.
thanks alot..
tjmooremusic
The second answer is that I have no particular favorite brands of cases with regard to handguns. For the finest accuracy, it is always best to segregate brass, but I can also tell you that I competed in many official matches with mixed brass that was supplied by the department, and it never gave rise to accuracy issues. I have purchased Starline pistol brass on a number of occasions simply because they are often available in bulk at a reasonable cost, and are very satisfactory. They are great, but not necessarily any better.
All brands of primers are of very fine quality, and are 100% reliable. Match grade primers are more slowly and meticulously produced, and undergo more rigorous quality control checks for uniformity, but are only potentially more uniform; they are no more reliable, nor notably more unifom for anyone but the most demanding accuracy shooter. In any given lot of standard grade primers, they can be every bit as accurate. The additional 25% or greater cost provides nothing that the vast majority of shooters would find truly advantageous. Remember that primers do have varying degrees of flash intensity between brands, so they should not be loaded haphazardly without individual testing.
Bullet manufacturers offer countless different offerings; some directed at the hunting community, others for target shooting, and others for general plinking. Most hunting grade jacketed bullets are capable of match grade accuracy, though very expensive. Most pistol target bullets are non jacketed, and are often quite inexpensive in bulk.
I recommend that you purchase good reloading manuals and become familiar with all these matters, as it's far more than I can answer in this format.
GunBlue490
thanks for your time
take care.
tjmooremusic
Let me first clarify that 38 Special and 357 Magnum loads work at significantly different pressures, and load data cannot be shared. It is entirely permissible to lower the operating pressure of 357 Magnum loads to nearly 38 Special levels, but only to the minimum specifically given in recognized data.
For highest accuracy, you should develop loads in your handgun and rifle separately. It is entirely possible and preferable, in my view, to arrive at a load that gives good performance in both, but that is nit always easy to arrive at. Any given load will always deliver higher velocities in longer barrels, which can be quite significant when comparing rifle to handgun. Under NO circumstances, should the loader ever presume that a rifle can operate at greater pressure levels than a handgun, unless specifically stated in a manual. Remember that modern pressure levels are typically defined by the cartridge, and not by the firearm, except in specific very well established and approved circumstances (ie, 45 Colt, 45-70 Gov't) that do not apply to either of the rounds you are loading.
Is crimping necessary or is it a preference?
Crimping is used to prevent bullet movement in either cycling or as a result of recoil. Most auto cycling gun ammo should be crimped, only as needed to prevent bullet movement. Heavy handgun rounds are always crimped, according to their design. Do it only if required, according to your own usage.
Great videos, but I realized after watching everyone involved will be safer if I continue to buy commercial ammo
Hello sir, what if the bullet does not have a predetermined seating depth? What would you have to do then?
nono559
Bullets have no predetermined seating depth. The depth is determined by the handloader, on the basis of the minimum overall length of a cartridge, chamber length, magazine length, and a supportive bullet to case contact. Please review my video, as I cover those issues. Minimum overall length is stated in all manuals for every bullet made in America, which allows for proper and safe pressures with the loads they list. But the maximum can be far greater, which you assess. Of course, a bullet cannot exceed the chamber length, or the action will not close, and there should generally be at least .015 clearance to the rifling, unless you are a benchrest shooter. Of course, cartridges cannot be longer than their magazine, unless individually loaded. Some bullets come with crimping grooves, called cannelures, but they can be ignored unless deep crimping is required for heavy recoiling loads, or for simply appearance. The general minimum seating depth for reliable durability is one caliber deep, so a 30 caliber bullet should be seated a minimum of .308. But the 300 Savage never had a 308 long neck, and they never suffered in normal use. Handloading requires a person to use some essential critical thinking skills, in conjunction with established practices.
Was that mentioned in the video about the dyes,sir?
wish you did a 45 loading too as i heard pistol ammo is a little different, but great videos.
I did a two part video on loading the 45 with the Lee Loadmaster. It covers the various dies, and what they do, even if used without a progressive press.
@@GunBlue490 Thanks, I couldn't find them but do you also have a video on run out and is this an effect from the die, turret or case?
Gunblue490, why did you trim before full-length sizing? Everything I've read has said to trim after full-length sizing, because the sizing process lengthens the case.
Adam Taylor
I've done it either way. I have measured brass both ways, and it makes no difference in the long run. It's like driving a racetrack and stopping for pit stops. The brass will eventually lengthen exactly the same amount during the shooting/reloading cycle, whether done before or after. It's usually less disruptive to do all loading steps together, especially on progressive systems. I have never measured more than .001 growth after sizing, which is nothing. Sizing stretch is caused by expander ball dragging on dry case necks. One stroke of a case neck brush before sizing eliminates dragging entirely.
Very interesting. Thanks for these videos, they're full of great information!
Interesting. I'm not saying you're wrong, but my experience has been different. If I cut to length then resize, I can have up to a 0.03" change in case length. So I always resize first, then cut to length.
whatever works for each of us I suppose.
I would get the RCBS electric powder dispenser and the bench top primer installer so as to eliminate all this fuss and monkey business or if your only doing 20 rounds weigh them out and be done, now if you want plinking ammo 223 or similar than set the powder dump for hundreds of rounds, sure wish I bought the previous equipment years ago would have been a whole lot less frustrating and easier on the hands, good luck.
Do you trim to length or resize first? I’ve heard both ways with a lot of opinions!
Wayne Bailey
I get a kick out of these arguments that go around and around. The simple answer is that it makes no difference whatsoever. The greater question is what is suitable for the circumstances and conveniences at hand. The only reason one trims a case is to prevent it from exceeding the chamber length, which is a specified limit. If, for instance, one is loading a 243 Winchester cartridge, the SAAMI case length cannot be greater than 2.045 inches, or it will exceed the length of the chamber on firing, and will crimp the bullet as it exits the case, causing excessive and dangerous internal pressures. The chamber length is slightly longer to account for the growth of the case when it is at maximum allowable length. In practical use, however, loading manuals provide a "trim to length" dimension that is traditionally ten thousandths shy of the maximum, which provides the convenience of more than one firing between trimmings, and also allows for such events where a case may grow during firing inordinately long, beyond chamber size. So, the trim length of the 243 is stated to be 2.035 inches. But it could as well be 2.038, 2.042, or the maximum of 2.045. If you trim a case prior to sizing, the sizing process may cause the case to grow by one or two thousandths, but they will all grow together, if they do at all. If you trim after sizing, they will also be the same. I have trimmed either way, and it makes no difference whatsoever. Certain trimming devices are made for post sized cases, while others which solidly secure the case, as with my Forster, are not. The Lee trimmer requires that the primer pocket is empty, but it will work with simply decapped cases; whether they are sized has nothing to do with their system either. As to the issue of cases being of uniform length when within allowable length, I have this to say: if I am loading my accurate bolt varmint gun, I will pester myself to fuss with trimming all cases to the same length. If I am loading for my stock 223 AR-15 or Remington pump, the issue is rather moot; such fussiness is not going to be rewarded in any material way in the least, with such factors overwhelmingly obscured by creepy triggers, poor bedding, and market grade barrels. Your only concern is to stay within the maximum overall length. In fact, if you accidentally trim somewhat shorter than the trim length, the sky will not fall.
Thanks for your reply! I love your down to earth videos!
Thank you sir, also thought about that. You are one seriously practical teacher backed by field knowledge!
Sir if the maximum charge is 40 grains wouldn’t 42.5 grains go over the maximum? So if it’s 40grains and you go down 10 percent would that start you off at 39.6grains?
nono559
If 40 grains is maximum, that's the maximum, yes. I'm not clear on what you are referring to, if you will placemark the time on the video. I think I stated in this video that to find the ten percent starting point, simply move the decimal over one place. Incremental test loads are one decimal more, or one hundredth of the maximum load, rounded off to the nearest tenth of a grain. So, your 40 grain max load starts at ten percent below, which is 4 grains less (36 grains), and the incremental test loads increase by 4 tenths of a grain for each lot, stopping at 40 grains. For a modern, strong firearm in good condition, most experienced loaders consider it unecesssary to go back a full ten percent, unless you wish to. But never go back more than the minimum recommended load given in a loading manual, as some slow burning powders react unfavorably.
The time on video is at 40 min.
I also wish to thank you for the valuable knowledge air!
Sir !
Proverbs 27:17
Iron sharpeneth iron;
So a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Whoso keepeth the fig tree shall eat the fruit thereof:
So he that waiteth on his master shall be honoured.
Again just love your videos. Question: When i setup my factory crimp die for 308w like you did here, it doesn't touch my case at all and i can move then shell/bullet around. The same goes for the bullet seating die, it never makes contact with my casing and always hit the ram first. Also using same lee setup as you. I have the ram up with the case inside, turn the die down untill my case can't be moved. Then i add 1/4 turn. Is this wrong? I have seen so many video about the factory crim die, all shows the same as you. But this adds zero contact with my case
Frode Hanssen
Your dies come packed with detailed instructions, but let me see if I can help. Put aside all your cases, because they have nothing to do with adjustment of either your sizing die or factory crimping die. There is no room to get a piece of paper between a properly adjusted die and shell holder, let alone fingers to twirl cases. As to the factory crimp die, remove your die from the press, then raise your ram with the shell holder in it to its top position, and be sure it stays there. Put your knee against the handle so it stays up. Back the die lock ring off and screw your die in until the sliding collet touches the shell holder firmly. Looking down from above, note the four segments. Those are the fingers that squeeze the case around the bullet. Tightening the die after contact will increase the crimp. But NEVER adjust beyond the point that the gaps close, as this is far too much stress on your die and press, and is far more than needed for any cartridge. For the 308, a light crimp will perform nicely, without unnecessary work hardening of the brass. As to the sizing die, again with no brass, repeat the same process of raising the ram to the top, lower the die body until it contacts the shell holder. Release pressure on the ram and lower the die another quarter turn. You should be able to work the ram to full extension, but the die will take all mechanical spring out of the system.
Be sure you properly lubricate your cases according to my recent case lube video before resizing... not excessively. FYI, crimping is not required for bolt action rifles, so use only a light crimp... about 1/2 turn at most. Heavy recoiling rifles and autos can benefit from 3/4 turn, but don't overdo, as it will provide no benefit at all, and shorten brass life.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. My English isn't the best, so might have explained it a bit wrong. The space is around the 4 crimp arms and bullet. And with finger on bullet tip, i can move it around still. The instruction says "Turn the die until it touches the shell holder", doesn't say anything about firmly. If i fasten the die with ram up as much i can with fingers then it actually make a crimp. So i guess it's about how firmly then :) Do you not use crimp on the bullet seating die for 308? Regarding the full size die, i just find it a bit confusing when i sometimes see reference to "touching the case", since for me it's always the shell holder the die stops at (as the instructions also says). Side question. I struggle with accuracy on cannelured bullets (Hornady 150 FMJ-BT, and 165 Interlock BTSP) after testing out many different powder charges, and would love to hear your thoughts about ignore seating the bullets to cannelure and use bigger/smaler col. Oh and yes, i have watched a lot of your movies. RUclips on TV and relaxing with coffee to your movies, and needles to say im hooked on the theory behind rifle shooting and reloading :)
Frode Hanssen
The crimp die works independently of the bullet seating process, after the entire loading operation, and can even be performed on previously loaded rounds. Watch the fingers as they close together, as you raise the ram without the cartridge in place. Compression of the die collet against the shell holder progressively closes the fingers, and makes the crimp. Simply contacting the die with the shell holder does nothing.
Sizing dies must always tightly contact the shell holder. The case is resized as it is forced into the lubricated die. If you feel no force being exerted, the brass is not being sized. The effort to resize brass cases is sufficient to require the press that can apply over a ton of pressure. Most bullets have no cannelure, simply because they are rarely necessary. The placement of the crimp at the cannelure is necessary with regular sizing dies, when adjusted to apply a crimp, but the Lee Factory Crimp Die makes its own, anywhere you desire, on any type of bullet, irregardless of the cannelure made by Hornady or whomever. The bullet jump from the lands, magazine length, and overall length are the sole deciding factors. I have a video that discusses these issues and the measurement of overall length determination in full. Using a crimp on a cartridge is entirely unnecessary, except for the types of conditions I mentioned in the previous note, above.
I see i did write wrong. I did mean the bullet seating die, not full resize die. And just figured out that my bullet seating die does not have crimp.. So of course it will not touch the case :) Didn't see before now that Lee have bullet seating die with and without crimp, i just assumed they was the same.
But i guess the instructions for factory crimp die is wrong then. Copy and past from instruction: "Screw the Lee Factory Crimp Die in to touch the shell holder, plus ½ turn more. " When it touch the shell holder, i can still turn it 1 full turn by hand before it stops. Then i have to lower the arm for to turn more.
Yes, i watched the movie about finding COL and subtract 0,03". I was just wondering if bullets with cannelure, needed to be seated to the cannelure. Or can the cannelure be above shell neck. When you don't plan to crimp at all.
Just wondering why you don't resize first then trim?
Excellent question! Either way works, but the question boils down to the greater of two issues. Sizing first allows the most efficient trimming, after any stretch caused by pulling the case over the extractor, if there is any. Sizing after trimming corrects any possible distortion caused by the trimming process. I've experienced little resize lengthening with cases, as most lengthening occurs during firing. On the other hand, I have experienced some, albeit minor, distortion caused by handling during the trimming that affects cartridge runnout, which certainly can have a serious negative effect on accuracy. The former is an efficiency issue, whereas the latter is an accuracy issue. In reality, there's no practical difference, except in terms of convenience. Convenience wise, the Zip Trim is better suited to the method shown, as the clearance is rather tight on the case length gauge after sizing, and can easily leverage the case sideways and distort it. With the Forster trimmer, I always size first, as you suggested, because the pilot and chuck maintain the case in perfect alignment. And that's best!
+GunBlue490 Thank you for your response. Have truly enjoyed all of your videos.
shouldnt you resize then trim?
Yes , because resizing my cause the case to lengthen .
Lol... "this is not a job for sissies, if you dont like doing a little bit of work"
you should look into setting up a Patreon account for yourself so folks like us can donate some cash to give back a little something for your time. you could get yourself some more reloading materials or new firearms to make videos on for the channel.
I will check into that.
It appears that I am only neck sizing my brass even though I am using the same technique you used for the full length sizing die. They are never fired cases so that shouldn't be an issue for the first firing. I think that they are only being sized at the neck because there is now a small ring around every neck. Is this normal?
I love your videos ,but cases should be trimmed after resizing and primer pockets should be cleaned .
That's absolutely not true. Standard case trimming reduces length ten thousandths of an inch, and no properly lubricated case of any sort will lengthen more than a thousandth during sizing. I've conducted numerous tests on cleaned and uncleaned primer pockets over the course of 45 years with many very precise sub-MOA rifles and no amount of cleaning makes any difference whatsoever. If you enjoy doing it, that's fine, but it's entirely a wasteful endeavor that soothes only the fussy mind, not the gun. What does matter is removal of the inner burr with a deburring tool for a new case, which improves flash uniformity.
@@GunBlue490 Repeated seating of primers in a primer pocket without cleaning may cause a high primer , and i have had cases lengthen 5-7 one 1000 of an inch in resizing them . I have also been reloading for 45 years , and my concern is not MOA results but i am just saying i have always resized before trimming and that is what i teach in my classes , and i clean my primer pockets over a tissue i always get a lot burnt flakes. As me being a fussy mind , I was a Dental Tech. for 30 years and was raised by my father a Master Dental Tech to do everything you can to make the product the best it can be , So i am sorry i am so fussy