The Gospels Used Homer and Virgil | Dr. Robyn Walsh & Dr. Dennis MacDonald
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- In this livestream, Professor Robyn Walsh and Professor Dennis MacDonald join me to discuss the Gospels use of Homer, Virgil and other literature like them.
What a pleasant discussion with two brilliant scholars!
Banging podcast , these two are trail blazers .
I really love discussions with Dennis and Robyn. ❤ It's always going to be great. 😊
I "love them" too, since theyrre so incredibly pedantic and predictable.
I guess you like to feel that things are always going to be great, even when they aren't
I'm watching this One , both are outstanding. Profferess Robyn Walsh 🌹🌹💯🆗😉 , Dennis you r something else
MacDonald, Walsh, Jacob yeah that gets a thumbs up. Great scholars and a great host.
Jacob, i really love your channel but please find a way to normalize the audio volume. Ffmpeg might help. My old heart can't handle the acoustic jump scares.
The extent of Hellenistic influence is underestimated. There were copies of the Greek Septuagint than Hebrew Torah, especially after the Jewish Wars. More sophists than rabbis.
Jews were Celts, Phoenicians
Our history has been manipulated to allow for a Trojan Crusade by an invented people.
Richard C. Miller and Dennis MacDonald interview in MV was awesome. I'm sure this will be as good if not better. 😁
Like someone else said, the difference in volume between Jacob/Dennis and Robyn makes this hard to listen to. She’s a lot louder and more excitable than they are so you have to turn the volume way up to hear what Dennis is saying and then she comes on and shatters your eardrums.
Wonderful interview
Great interview. Thanks.
Great discussions. Jacob look alive please….
that smile they all have expressed when she said paul was quoting Medeea ^_^
Not a bad discussion. i’ve become much more receptive to the intermixing of “homer” and “Mark,” etc. over the last year. At the outset i was like “Richard Carrier believes in that. That guy sucks.”
What do you have against Richard Carrier? Is there something specific that he is demonstrably incorrect about?
I'm not sure I see the parallel between Virgil's use of events described in Homer (that, if they occurred at all, happened 12 or 13 centuries before Virgil lived) and the Gospel writers writing mere decades after the events they are purporting to describe.
I don't doubt the (very Greek) authors of the Gospels borrowed from the story tropes they were familiar with, but they couldn't very well ignore VERY recent oral traditions (or even living memories at the time the earliest Gospels were written).
Virgil could write whatever he wanted since his Latin-speaking audience wanted the same thing: a story that gave the Latin Romans the same ancient "pedigree" as their Greek-descended counterparts - and there was little or no risk of contradiction from defenders of competing narratives with greater claim to direct recent knowledge of the Jesus story.
At the very least, the Gospel writers could not ignore Paul. Since Paul wrote little (and cared less) about the events of the life and death of Jesus, they COULD get away with some "artistic licence" in spinning the legends they were inclined to spin, but they WERE more constrained by oral tradition obtained from Aramaic-speaking Judeans who were the only ones who would have actually known anything about the life or teachings of Jesus.
Dr. McDonald cracking on the only use of Homer - weights and measures
I’d REALLY like to get Dr Macdonald and Dr Walsh’s view on Dr Hillman’s ideas. I think they’re definitely compatible but I’d love to hear their thoughts.
Hillman's problem is he has interpolated everything as literal, and misses the allegorical astrology
pRAise jeZEUS(& mARIA🌞) ! 🤩
this is like the pg13 version of LadyBabylon :)
Wasn't Paul secretly working for the Flavian Dynasty? Weren't all of the original Roman Catholic Saints' members of the Flavian Dynasty? Weren't all of the original symbols used by the earliest Christians' identical to those of the Flavian Dynasty? And isn't the earliest iconographic image of Jesus The Christ, in a catacomb, under the city of Rome, which was owned by a Flavian Princess?
Weren't all of the original Jesus cult texts produced under the oversight of the Flavian Dynasty? Didn't the Flavian Dynasty posses the only remaining copy of the Hebrew Tanakh other than the Greek Septuagint translation? Isn't there Flavian typology in the Gospels? Weren't the canonical texts all back dated like the historical fiction of Gone With The Wind? Wasn't Emperor Vespasian known as the Jewish Messiah? Wasn’t Pope Clement of Rome a Flavian? Wasn't Josephus a temple whore for the Flavian Dynasty? Weren't the Flavian’s, as well as Paul, descended from King Herod?
There was no separation of Church and State in the Roman Empire. And Christianity is clearly a Greco-Roman hybrid form of Judaism created by the Flavian Dynasty. As an attempt to adapt, pacify, and integrate the rebellious and defiant Jews into the rest of the Greco-Roman Empire. Just like the Greeks created Hermes Trismegistus to integrate Egyptian mythology with Greek mythology.Then finally Neo-Flavian Constantine chose the Flavian family religion to be the official religion of the entire Roman Empire. In order to consolidate power in his fractured Empire. And then Eusebius edited and rewrote the history of the previous 3OO years. Destroying all contradictory evidence. It isn't history it is all simply Greco-Roman mythopoetic literature. Today it is known as Historical Fiction.
“What profit hath not this fable of Christ brought us.”
Pope Leo X 💙
found this: "Paulkovich repeats the famous Pope Leo quote (what profit hath not this fable of Christ brought us) uncritically, without mentioning that it only goes back to a PLAY by Bale long after Pope Leo lived."
*Greek-named disciples*
How many Greek-named people were there fishing on the Sea of Galilee in the 1st C? (Andrew and Philip).
Galilee, Galatians, Gaels, Gaelic, Gauls, Galicia
@@Uncanny_Mountain You’ve got gallons of Gaul, gall, gala, galavanting
Much of the old testament may have been heavily inspired by greek mythic conventions too, right?
Sumerian. Abraham was from Ur which is Sumerian.
The jewish scripture has a lot of influences from sumerian and other high cultures.
Sumerians were descended from Iberian Settlers in Georgia, basically what became the Scythians and Assyrians, the Hyksos
Despite all their talk about somebody who can't be proved even existed, a book l have just read by Henry Davis called "Creating Christianity", claims it was the powerful senatorial Calpurnius Pisos family who wrote the Gospels as a satirical play with Jesus as one of the characters in it. After reading the book it does start to make sense, Davis is by the way an historical researcher and not a fiction writer.
You're just pushing another variant of the Roman Provenance proposition. There's a reason why serious scholars, secular scholars, don't take that seriously - because it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
It's much more likely that different sects of Jews were influenced by mystery cults and developed their own versions based on their mythology. These cults used parables to teach principles and the lower ranking initiates were not aware that the stories weren't literal and or factual. On multiple occasions, Paul wrote about mysteries and he even said that the people he was writing to did not yet know enough to understand them. This was common among the Hellenistic mystery cults, one would become initiated and progress through various stages of knowledge and understanding
@@TheDanEdwards Divine fallacy
Akurios means LORD
Pan is Slavic for LORD
Also known as E Io, Joseph
Israel is the Canaan word for Saturn or El, Fruit of Isis and Ra
Esus aka Isis is the Celtic God of Death, he was baptised by John the Baptist from which we get Baphomet. John the Baptist was a Setian. The Ante Christ, Crucified upside down, and called Simon Peter Magus, whom Jesus rebukes when he slices a Roman soldier's ear, when arrested in the Garden, after being caught sodomising his own Nephew. Just like Seth sodomised his Nephew Horus the Younger. It is the Younger who catches his brothers ankle exiting the womb of Sophia, Asherah. Philo's Sophia, Son of Sophia, Theosophia, Son of Sophia, Gaia, Ishtar, Thera, Kythera, Astarte, Goddess of Life and Death just like Apollo is God of Plagues and Cures.
Michael also rebukes Satan when they fight over the Body of Moses, aka Arkenaten, or Echnaton, who also rose the Brazen Serpent. And who is the first and last character in the Book, that reverses at the end, if not the Archangel of Death, Setanus?
Setanus is Typhon, Zephon, Sepher, the Golden Ass, E Io, Yahu, Eyore, Yahuah, Hilaria, Saturnus, Bacchus, Eshmun, Apollo, Sabazios, Adonai, Perseus, Heracles, Pan, Shiva, Hermes, Thoth, Buddha, Quetzalcoatl, the Rainbow Serpent, of the Rainbow Covenant
It is a Curse for the Brazen Serpent to hang upon the Wooden Idol of "Knowing"
And who comes into your home as a thief on the Sabbath at Saturnalia?
Krampus, Kronos, Dagda, Zeus, Father Xmas, Father Time, El, Para,
Ur
Urshu
Uruk
Uruku Salaam
Uru Salem
Shalim (Šalām, Shalem, Ugaritic: 𐎌𐎍𐎎, romanized: ŠLM) is a pagan god in Canaanite religion, mentioned in inscriptions found in Ugarit (now Ras Shamra, Syria). William F. Albright identified Shalim as the god of the dusk and Shahar as the god of the dawn.
The Purple Throne of Tyre is the Throne of Jerusalem. Christianity got literally everything wrong! The Arc of the Covenant is the Arch of Baal, the basis of our 365 day Calendar, in fact before being taken over by the Chaldeans, Dorians, and Scythians, Scotia was called Albion, and Caledonia
Like Macedonia
The Staff of Adon, or Aten
Saidon is root with Esadon, or Ikthobaal, Ikthadon, Isaidon, Dionysians, who worshipped the Moon as the Sun of God.
@@shinobi-no-bueno now explain Aesop's Fables, the Paintings of the Renaissance, Shakespeare's Plays, Hollywood Blockbusters, and One hit wonders?
Serious question.
Was Jesus gay?
his close circle where 12 men.
There is a strong tradition talking about the beloved disciple. "The one who Jesus loved"
They where even kuddling.
He was washing men's feet.
Rabbi's where usually married but Jesus choose to travel around for years with a group of men.
It seems more likely that he was gay.
While we can't know Jesus' sexual orientation with certainty, it's important to understand ancient cultural norms. In 1st-century Palestine, close relationships between men were common and didn't necessarily imply sexual intimacy. The concept of 'homosexuality' as we know it today didn't exist. Jesus' relationship with his disciples, including the 'beloved disciple,' might be seen as a deep, intimate friendship, which was a valued and common relationship in ancient cultures.
He actually traveled with women that supported his mission. It wasn’t uncommon at that time. He might have been married but that may not have been considered important.
@@mmore242 it might be yes. But it seems more likely imo that he had homosexual desires. Or atleast he was bi.
A group of 12 men travelling around together teaching neighbourly love, i doubt that a group of heterosexual men would do that.
And that's ironic, because most christians see homesexuality as a sin.
@@michaeltelson9798 ok but his closest circle where 12 men.
And gay men can get along with women well.
He might have been married?
Now that seems very unlikely.
So the gospels name other women, his father, his brothers but not his wife...
And if he had a wife he would probably have children..
Not important as well?
@@Marabarra-s3p
Ultimately, I don't know, but I think it's unlikely that 1st-century Palestine shared the same cultural sensibilities as modern times. For instance, if we saw two men holding hands today, we might assume they're gay, but that wouldn't necessarily have been the case for 1st-century Jews. Physical affection between men was a common expression of friendship and brotherhood in ancient cultures, without implying romantic or sexual relationships.
Well, you have to take into consideration that this interplay between the Gospels and what came before them is a two-way street. That is, people writing and worshipping before the Incarnation were aware that there was to be an Incarnation of the Godhead upon the earth, and knew quite a bit about what that was going to be like. In fact, the life of Christ is like a sacrificial ritual, and that ritual was predicted and known about for many centuries before the birth of Christ. Many of the pagan religions practiced ritual sacrifice as a pre-cursor to the Christ event. It wasn't that Christianity was copying paganism. It was that paganism was preparing the way for Christianity.
No, it was that paganism was a true, valid religious path, and Christians stole wisdom from them and claimed it as their own. Your circular argument is completely illogical, your reasoning is deeply flawed.
Were Corinthians 15:3-5 and Philippians 2:6-11 Greek inspired? They talk about a man going into the underworld, defeats death and then seen by the 12. Seems like you can attribute Greek influence into anything
"They talk about a man going into the underworld" - ever hear of _Hades_ ?? How about _Heracles_ or _Odysseus_ ? Greeks loved heros who visited the underworld.
"Corinthians 15:3-5 "
@@TheDanEdwards so any mention of going into the afterlife is Greek? The epics from India took them from the Greeks? The native Americans took their myths from the Greek?
And the 3 days is a reference to Jonah. “I called out to the LORD, out of my distress, and he answered me; out of the belly of Sheol I cried, and you heard my voice.”
@@tookie36 Greek-roman literature about "Iesous" are filled with troupes and elements from greek stories. The 99th story about someone going into the underworld and coming back us not unique. We have so many empty tomb stories in greek literature that it is a troupe for you that you became a god. Everyone who read Homer, Euripides, Vergil and a bit of greek philosophy sees where so many elements of the stories come from.
@@tookie36 The gospels are written in Greek for Greek readers. Of course the writers exploited the culture of which they were a part. The writers were not part of a culture in the Americas or India. You're just not wanting to accept the obvious.
Paul was essentially Greek,he was certainly more greek than he was Hebrew
Creating parallels off presuppose ideas or opinions is not proof or evidence of it being true...
Do you disagree because you are aware of counter evidence, OR do you disagree because you already have a belief that you are unwilling to examine honestly
@@shinobi-no-bueno first off as I've already said opinions are not evidence especially when you out the gate start with presuppostion and a bias view.. that undermines your educational methods and credentials.. the point of counter evidence is that you first provide evidence I need to on its own merits counter that's the point of the term.. also what I believe and know to be true are the same this knowledge comes in multiple ways, one experience, two learning, three education, study, research, and many more methods of processing and gathering.. but you must first begin from step one which is trust, those who stubble or doubt don't trust until they do.. those who jump in blindly trip along the way.. clearly if you have payed attention to debating and public speaking atheists they all have a belief and position they either refuse to question or examine or playing the victim and or making excuses the evidence they want or would consider convincing is not available or they just don't know what would be good enough lol 🤣.. then some say things like well God should just show him self to us all physically because I said so not because he wants to lol and this will be compelling lol note not convincing because maybe it was a mass dream or mass helusination or some other must be natural or emotional or mental cause lol.. point here is no evidence no matter how accurate and persuasive is good enough, not to pick at science because I enjoy it and have respect for some of it's practicers because not all are illogical bias atheists but those who study specific fields once said gorillas did not exist they were the myths of tribal (uneducated people's) who were seeing fairytails or fictitious or mind generated creatures but In the 70s these uneducated villagers were proven true.. scepticism does not mean let's just disagree because I don't like your view that somehow creates problems for me.. a wise man once said truth does not concern it's self with your feelings it just is.. show me proof the gospel writers copied, stole, or mislead with imagination their readers whom fyi were not all gentiles also this term does not just mean Geeks but all outside of Isrealite-hebrews,. Show me the evidence and unpack your position and we can have a cordial rational debate.. to get to the information at hand and see what evidences or information may lead you to learning..
@@Coltsfan421 “not all are illogical bias atheists”
That doesn’t make sense. Do you mean “not all are illogical biased atheists “?
“Bias” is a noun and a verb. If you want to attribute bias to someone, “biased” is the correct form.
@@robinharwood5044 clearly again attacking a words usage does not nullify or detract from it's clearly used meaning or point adding (Ed) does not change the point clearly you knew what I meant and unless you can provide me with your English credentials and a masters or doctorate level I could care less about your opinion of my two letter mistake this does not effect mine or googles spell check credibility which fyi is a form of editing but it clearly does not detract from my point, you clearly knew what I meant and what I'm saying so the point here is that instead of critiquing the two letter miss type or plausible miss usage. And using this as a deflective method to avoid the point.. face the points and questions, or assertions posted along with the evidences provided.. we are not in a English class if you'd like to be find and school and teach you worry about that for you not for me.. it has zero basis on my understanding, knowledge, or experience, nor does it effect my meaning or opinion that can be clearly understood otherwise it could not be corrected.. so if you have a legit comment on what I said based on the topic feel free to reply if not take your English teaching or two letter corrections to English or gammer school..
Saying "I don't believe you" is a subjective argument and Divine infallibility fallacy
You're implying your feelings determine reality
Nice Manuscript by the way, heard of Punctuation Mr Sophist?
How much can be contributed to basic narrative found in all stories across the globe? Surely there is Greek influence but the levels attributed here seems like a stretch and diminishes work of other cultures. Which is like the historic norm to say everything came from the Greeks 😂 as if no other civilization existed
Paul was a thoroughly Hellenized Jew, and even Romanized, by which I mean if he was not legally a citizen of Rome then he was quite at home in the Roman empire. All the NT is written in Greek, so yes we should conclude that the authors not only knew Greek as a language but were imbued with Greek culture. And that manifests when the NT writers exhibit affiliation with middle-Platonists, Stoics, etc. Heck, Paul even quotes one.
@@TheDanEdwards it’s one thing to find the Greek influence. Sunlight, water, nutrients all influence the seed… but the seed is unique. In the same sense what was unique to Christianity that grew into the religion. When Macdonald goes on everything is Greek. The Eucharist is Greek, the ressurection is Greek, baptism is Greek. If you call everything bc Greek you go from scholarship to a blind bias. Which is bad on a secondary level as well bc we have a silly history of attributing everything to the Greeks
@@tookie36It is a copycat - turning water to wine comes from Dionysos the god of wine. Walking over water, calming the sea comes from Poseidon god of the sea, healing of people comes from Asklepios god of healing. So that story about Iesous is as unoriginal as one can be . We have the literary evidence that christianity is a jewish-greek-roman merge cult story.
Phoenicians
It's a Lunar Zodiac Calendar
@@TorianTammas
That doesn't address the fact that the same story is found everywhere in everything, from Songs and Movies to Novels and Games, long before any Byblos Baal or Communion, which also feature in Ancient Egypt
I find the Bible to be insufferable to read.
Also you are concerned with claimed unproven parallels in this about a few book writers In scripture the real question is were did homer get his writing style from because he was not the first writer. Nor do we even have more historical evidence for him then we do for Jesus, Paul, or any of the other writers of the gospels.. the nostics and many apocrypha have been proven to be inaccurate to the text of the biblical cannon and therefore incredible so to compare them to Paul or mark which are clearly historical and witnessed experiencer nerratives not mythos or hyperbole, or any other fictional literary style..
😂😂😂😂
You're just declaring yourself God and claiming to be the world authority on everything based purely on your feelings
@@Uncanny_Mountain actually that is exactly what these so called scholars are doing as well as your clearly wholely backed atheistic community is doing yes your right well said..
I said zero in the comments on this video based on feelings if you knew how to read beyond the surface I'm stating in multiple ways show evidence to back up your claims not your presuppositional opinion.. this clearly is not me claiming I'm a world authority nor am I declaring my self God. These comments your making are clearly incoherent, baseless, and an attempt to deflect from the points made. That don't work on me, also based on your 3 replays you are the one clearly speaking from your feelings and the one who by your own usage of the word triggered.
Again 😂🤣 show me evidence because your fallacious weak so called subjective argument based on zero evidence based on your felt opinion is not evidence. Back up the claims of the so called scholars with evidence I can observe or test, or as your parents should have told you growing up keep your opinions to your self unless you have evidence to support them..
Clearly your factoring and discussion is flat and wrong. Clearly scripture is not myth also they did not use these people's literary genre or styles. Also the gospel writers did not write coping Greeks nor any other cultures they were subjected to so these Hebrew men would not have expected to be believed or listened to had they copied these dispised tiranical people.
Also Christ was clearly not gay he gathered with men for many reasons one is culture and customary, for the culture and his people, secondly he loves all of us and all his disciples to include John whom was in fact the disciple he loved why is John pointed is the question one because John had the honor as the youngest apostle to be like a earthly son to Christ and was given the honor of not only being a part of Christ's earthly family but there care giver and spiritually mature guide after Christ crusifiction. The disciples and apostles possibly walked with Jesus only a hand full of years not there whole lives so he was not surrounding him self with men it was a proper and cultural thing to do for where he was and who he was but if you knew scripture and the culture you would know many of women would have been present also.. the men are pointed out for the culture and to be the leaders they were created to be. Not because of some abominable mind distortion. Also Jesus was God made Flesh therefore fully completing and doing God's will which involved obstaining from all sin and fyi being a fornicator, adulterer, or a gay person was all sin therefore he would not have by nature committed any of these sins.. no matter what your assumed preference of him is.. he washed there feet because one that was a way a host was to treat there guests, he was also showing he could humble himself, he was also cleaning them in a way.. it was not for perverse or abominable gratification, but out of true respect, honor, and humility, for his friends and guests also known as true love, true love is unconditional. Also I'd say in current times you could equal such grouping as in gangs, groups, clubs, or sports teams that are purely male as in this same category that some of you in the comments are trying to put Jesus in so why not ask these men groups I've listed who spend most of there time together and see if they are following any unnatural practices and I don't mean the few minority I mean the whole and the most notable in the group who taught one way but Infront of these people they went against what they taught I can assure you they wouldn't be and they would not be in that position long.. final point the Gospels are not these nostics false gospels there speaking of and the apostles did not write copying homer or Virgil or anyone else period.. it's a sorry attempt to try and disingage it that way you don't have to face it..
I think Jesus was Gay. You can't prove he wasn't and I can't prove he was but he was definitely gay.
@@daviddieter8294 clearly you have the reasoning and logic skills of a fly. And your being opinionative and intellectually dishonest. Your view of the world or your way of living it does not make everyone the same as you nor does your view or opinion matter without facts.. since by your own admission you can't prove it therefore it can't be true.. that's like me saying your straight when your clearly not lol 🤣..
@@daviddieter8294 also fyi those kinda people were killed in that culture it was banned from there beginning lol they did not live in this new age.. so learn more before you wish to form a unbacked opinion on a culture or person you don't even know..
@@daviddieter8294 and I laid out why he wouldn't have been that's clear evidence if you don't understand it that's on you your opinion is still unbacked and therefore unmerited and false.. come with something better then gamer trolling lol 🤣..
Is it making you an unemployee ?
Dennis again is wrong at 1:24:38 to 41 where he claims Jesus never spoke to or had a movement from gentiles this would be clearly false if this so called scholar read fully the scriptures where Jesus spoke to Samaritan's even Samaritan women, Roman soldiers and more all fyi whom were gentile also throughout the old testament he led them to gentile people's and after his resurrection and assention he clearly says to all the deciples and apostles present, Go everyone of you in to all the world and preach the gospel this is clearly not just Isreal. However he did place peter and James his half brother over the church in Isreal and Paul and those who were led to Paul by Christ as Ananias was were to speak to the gentiles. Eventually some of the other apostles did speak to other people inside Isreal and out Philip also in scripture gave the gospel and the baptism of Christ to an Ethiopian whom also would have been considered a gentile.. Jesus also has gentiles in his bloodline just fyi so Dennis again your atheistic world view and clearly presuppositions about the text blind you form the clear printed facts, oh for lack of knowledge, understanding, wisdom and the refusal to read is why you are blinded among many other reasons. I'd reevaluate the claims you have made Dennis that not only blinds you but those who think it's wise to listen to and agree with you.. read the full text in context before you make false and erroneous claims about scripture..
Do you believe everything you read in books or just one?
@@davidaaronhill5680 I believe what I know to be true, through years of experience I also believe what I've seen to be true through observation and testing, and I believe what I know to be true period, everything else is up for debate.. I can assure you I don't take some video or persons word for it nor do I attempt to draw perrallels in writings or in all forms of human existence which I could just so I can scapegoat what I don't want to believe lol.. I don't read JRR Tolkien and think man he copied Dante lol 🤣 but instead of making a fabricated Catholic purgatory hell that somehow spoke English Tolkien made a mid-evil ancient world with his own contenents, and lands while implementing languages to all the different races he generated for his imaginary world so many since Dante did the same in some perrallel ways with his multi leveled version of Catholic purgatory/hell there's the perrallel one had to copy from the other lol 🤣.. the New testament writers did not write myth or fairytails from there over active and influenced imaginations they wrote historical nerratives.. which can all be proven by other documents outside of there own..
@@Coltsfan421 Dude gonna call you out on your ABSOLUTE! your last statement there 'which can ALL be proven'
Name a source of outside evidence that magi came to Jesus' birth?
@@CaliRaveBoi bible would be outside evidence, from my opinion, so would avalible asian and Indian texts. There were only 5 locations the magi could have came from when traveling from the east of Bethlehem; Saudi Arabia, Persia, Hindu cush, or Asia or the caucuses since we only have alleged indian and asian sources id reckon by deduction that these magi were of either both or one of these people which would show descendants of Cain finally bowing the knee to God. However your not calling me out on an absolute or the point of what I was saying there was evidence for you went off topic to a pointless question to attempt to deflect and attack my credibility lol which you failed at FYI nice try though.. also if you don't believe me look up magi them as a sect of people knowledgeable in astrology and signs is readily avalible so to in part there lack of existing because no one was visual there today who saw them with Christ does not make it impossible nor untrue... The people who wrote the scriptures were either present or had one on one contact with the people present during these events and for any of the people connected to have lied about it they by law and cultural policy been killed.. that's good enough for me I'm sure you would not lie if it cost you your life, freedom you think you have, or your credibility which fyi is all they really had in those days besides amazing mason, waring, and engineering abilities and great physical conditioning.. so I'd recommend you stop deflecting and face the facts, truth is two fold A being and what is unquestionable regardless of how many assumed possibles your vivid imagination creates.. in truth I'm a human if in my mind I think I'm a dog this does not make it true no matter how I act or what my delusion.. facts are you can't be gay when your not lol, facts are you can't be a biologicl women when your a biologicl man your DNA does not change nor do you chromosomes only your opinion and mind can change therefore what you think or concoct does not make it true no matter how "true it is for you" if I walk in a bank telling my self it's true I have 1 million on my account and I say to the teller hey can I withdraw 100k please. She runs my account and sees I have only 10k what's she or he going to say to me? Sorry sir you only have 10k in your account is that what your hoping to withdraw.. I reply with no that's not true for me I have 1million in my account so there should be no issue with me withdrawing 100k.. give me my withdraw. What do you think happens in this situation.
Come on you have a brain do not avoid and deflect face it let's have some real educational dialog..
@@Coltsfan421 sooo you believe the Bible is true because it says it is?
Robyn is also wrong when she claims Jesus claimed a Messianic position before Rome he never did his people claimed his position he never said a word until basically demanded to do so by Pilate when he asked him are you the king of the Jews this how ever was not the fullness of the Messianic position but a small part of a much deep and more in depth all incomapssing meaning.. he was at this point just a day or so from execution. Unlike the other self claimed false messiah's and prophets Jesus fully fulfilled what he came to do on his first appearing and will again complete it as he did his first mission when he comes to complete his second coming.. no doubt about it.. no other false prophet or messiah ever did which is one of many reasons why Jesus is more legitimately trust worthy then all of them also none of there writing have dominated the world like Christ word and his move ment into the hearts and minds of men and women. Clearly the Jesus movement did not have any weaknesses as the other Jewish claimers did or there stuff would be spoken and not lost to minority texts or small cultist sects.. it's no surprise that monotheism is the dominate world religion..
The always convincing the book says the thing argument.
@@davidaaronhill5680 huh lol 🤣
Which makes it even more convincing that its either a play or literature, since you the reader already know and its this big literary setup throughout the book. Like when Jesus heals people and is like DON'T TELL ANYONE! And tries to give hints to his disciples and they like huh you can't die... nooo but I must said Jesus. If Jesus had just said straight upfront then there would be no build up, its great writing!
@@CaliRaveBoi clearly your ignorant of the facts and the texts lol 🤣 buy nice nieve take on the opinion of a person without proof.. that's how we all should live lol not
@@Coltsfan421Rabbis disagree as your use of jewish scripture to make up a heathen god is not the story of jewish scripture.
At 1hr:15min to 1hr:16 min in Dennis shows how even more ignorant and presuppositional he is when claiming original and true Christianity and jewdisim taught reincarnation they did not and for anyone including Dennis if you disagree show me proof otherwise not just your bias words and opinions and don't cherry pick verses out of context to attempt to make your case or the writing of some other religion or atheistic view which in itself is a secular religion.. there is a difference clearly in the buddist and Hindu religions version of reincarnation then what you Dennis are claiming for Jews and christians being born again spirtually is not reincarnation nor is resurrection because we as christians following the true way are not unincarnate at any point to need to be reincarnated also the teaching of reincarnation do not guarantee a human form or even a body clearly Dennis has not done his research he just thinks he knows what he's reading and since it sounds the same it must parallel and be the same lol not how life or literature works my friend clearly what ever college you became a scholar at should reasses your qualifications, or there own carriculaum.. show me proof the Hebrew scriptures and the new testament cannons teaches reincarnation I can assure you that you will not find it unless you intellectually dishonest and misusing the text .. prove me wrong I challenge the host of the video or either scholar present on the video to show me the evidence to match your claim and back it up with facts not mistralated bias opinion.. or anyone else that thinks they can show it..
Calm down man, don't get so hysterically triggered by scholarship.
Try paragraphs bro, they are great.
@@davidaaronhill5680 lol you mean clearly intellectual dishonesty and ignorant scholarship..
@@urban_hermit_731 lol with a name like yours I'd try English first before paragraphs... Here's the thing if you can't read or understand what's being said don't reply or comment. You also simply don't have to read it.. your opinion or preferred method is not my concern please list your English degrees when deflecting from the points I'm making, to point out the squirrel in the crowd..
I tried to take you seriously before but this comment clearly shows that you're simply too biased to be afforded that courtesy. You're obviously a Christian who doesn't care about what's true, you simply cannot abide the fact that your version of Christianity is very different from the religion practiced in antiquity
Boring
😂 Poser
Then don’t watch.
Too annoying.
{:o:O:}