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Video on True Polymorphing into an Adult Gold Dragon, question on retaining class abilities, and the ability of the Adult Gold Dragon Change Shape back into a humanoid, or is it even worthwhile to permanently polymorphing into an Adult Gold Dragon at all? Etc... True Polymorphing objects into creatures with legendary lair actions like unicorns and building an empire of powerful magical creatures.
i think that having zombies tending to the fields is a great idea, little pieces of rotting flesh would drop from time to time aporting a lot of nutrients to the ground
But circle of spores is all about decomposition and necromancy is typically interested in preservation. I'm sure you could come up with an odd-couple type relationship for them, but they're not natural allies I wouldn't think.
Idea for a necromantic society. The majority of citizens do not work a job during their life time, they spend their days doing whatever they want. When they die, their bodies are given to necromancers to raise into an undead workforce who do all the base level manual labor and act as the backbone of the military. The necromancers pay the family some fee for use of the body, and this money is what those family members live on instead of having jobs. Depending on how well a person took care of their body during their lifetime their corpse would last longer and be able to do more, so necromancers would pay extra for those bodies creating an incentive for people to not just turn into coach potatoes. Over time the necromancers are gaining more and more power and are able to make their undead perform more complex tasks. Work such as forging horseshoes or constructing houses which used to be done by living craftsmen can now be done by undead, creating conflict between the artisans and the necromancers. I think it would be really interesting to explore what such a society would look like.
I really like your idea. That is a great spin to use n a game. Maybe have a Warlock Necromancer where the caster is beholding to a "higher power" so he starts a cult to their deity. The cult takes over a small area of maybe 3 villiages or small towns. Maybe the cult takes over a town then builds 2 more in the area. The population is very small but everyone lives the rich life style from goods looted from caravans, travelers so forth.
I play chaotic good necromancer. Refuse to raise the dead of people who haven’t done evil without permission from their family/superior officers and then when their service is done, lay them back down to rest.
A great example of the "undead as workforce" trope is the plane of Amonkhet from Magic: The Gathering. The people of Naktamuun live a life without labor thanks to the HEAVY use of zombies, bound by magic (and in linen), for all tasks such as building and farming.
This makes me want to run a megaman-esque campaign featuring all the different schools of magic as the "stages" in different parts of the world, each run by its own boss wizard. Over here, you have Abjuman, and there is Necroman.
Just use blight on people you don't like to look like they died to a sickness and slowly spread it over a town and come by saying your doctor, get rid of the sickness once a majority of the town is infected by Blight to get GP lmao
Every caster having access to all spells! Madness! Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling. The dead rising from the grave. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria! Or as Jim would call it, just another day. ;)
Reid Taylor if warlocks and sorcerers can have the Celestial patron and Divine Soul origin, respectively, and clerics and druids are allowed to cast Arcane spells through various Domains/Circles (not to mention bards who can pilfer any spell from any class using Magical Secrets), wizards should have some School with access to healing spells. It won’t break the game.
I dunno, I think a wizard having access to Find Greater Steed by level 7 would be pretty ridiculous. Something about having a griffon and casting from 120ft away that early sounds awful.
I've always thought of the "Schools" of magic as something akin to actual schools and philosophies more than mechanics. None of the schools make any kind of sense if you're looking at spells as a collection of in-game arcane mechanics. They've only ever made sense as a political/philosophical system of thought or an approach to problem solving using magic. The question and weakness is not "why is one spell in this particular school", but (in a spell system retaining its Vancian origins) why does a particular spell not fall into multiple schools when it would obviously make sense as a tool of a particular type of spellcasting doctrine? The answer is in-game mechanics balance, rather than flavor. Essentially spell schools boil down to an amazing piece of flavor than morphed into a game mechanics abomination. The same reason why diving magic heals and arcane doesn't.
24:35 And speak with dead specifically is rock-solid Necromancy. Like Necromancy literally translates into speaking with the dead. Maybe it could be divination too, but that is really the only firmly necromancy spell there is. If the school of necromancy was renamed Vivamorteology or something, that would be different.
In my home-brew version of e3.5, I do something similar with clerics, actually. Instead of having a set list of domains, I discuss the god with their player. A follower of the Goddess of Death, for example, might serve to hold of death as much as accelerate or manipulate it. At the end of the discussion, the player picks a domain based on how they want to follow their deity, and the deity picks a domain for them based on how they want the player to follow. It seems kinda funny, but it's always ended up being a logical, fair, and popular decision. So yeah - your idea. I like it. Might have to try it out, myself.
I predict the Conjuration school video will be very similar to this video. Is Conjuration evil, more so than Necromancy? For everything we've discussed in this video, Conjuration rips free-willed beings from across the cosmos and essentially enslaves them to you for a period of time, and those creatures can permanently die in your slavery. Calling is essentially the same except you just ripped a free-willed being and are forced to negotiate with it for service because it's not significantly weaker than you are. But keep in mind that Conjuration essentially allows to you bring both evil creatures into existence and let them loose upon the world, but you can also essentially call and bind into service or at least imprison good creatures near indefinitely. Why is that not also seen as evil? What even do summoning and calling have anything to do with the rest of conjuration's collected effects? Conjuration is a really odd-ball school in my opinion, way more so than Necromancy. Ditto for Enchantment. The schools of magic are not a collection of arcane spell mechanics. They're a particular school of though that focuses on problem solving by using a thematically similar collection of Vancian spells. In my homebrew which has never seen the light of day at a table, I break down the mechanics of magic into an expanded list of spell seeds similar to 3.5 epic spell seeds. This gives a better idea of the mechanics of spell construction and component effects, if that ever matters for any reason, which it doesn't unless you're trying to create new spells. I generally retain the traditional schools of magic as a type of old-fashioned wizard university subject majors that don't make sense, kinda like magical subjects at Hogwarts (or Harry Potter "schools" of magic) because they always seemed incomplete and non-sensical. @ Nitenshi: Exactly my point.
The biggest problem with a magic undead army is the same as the droid army from The Phantom Menace. There's a single point of failure. In a sapient army, if the leader dies, the next in the hierarchy immediately fills the void. In a necromantic army, killing the leader causes the followers to fall apart, wander off, or at the very least fall into disarray.
they have intelligent undead. And there are ways to raise greater intelligent undead with more permanent "life" and they raise their own undead! As a DM, i had a player do this once, the PC died, and well.... the next adventure the party went on was cleaning up all zombies and intelligent undead left.
Reminds me of the Xanth zombies, that were constantly dropping off bits... and there were always more bits to drop off. They just magically generate bits just to drop them off. Would make a *great* gardener.
Having the Healing spells with Necromancy just works really well. And it opens up an interesting look at RPing it. Example, using Necromancy and Healing to torture and extract information?
how about this. necromancers can heal, but at a cost to someone, so instead of giving out free hp their healing transfers hp from willing creatures (or unwilling critters, if you want a darker tone)
I've been homebrewing a system like that for a while, but getting bogged down in the detail! Kind of like the more you heal, the more you need to take life? Like balancing the cosmic scales of life? (Been going off the latest power set of Elixir from X-Men as an ideal image)
toss in a anti-druid necromancer healer... take life from plants and heal self/others or use life of others to heal plants as nature intended. and get a Druidic Lich... a lich sustained by Nature in protecting its Tranquil glades, enforced by vines and moss, since timeless body doesn't help in escaping death. basically Leshens. and its phylactery could be the Forest or an Elder tree in that Forest it is bound to.
@@originalitydied8667 How about you have a pool of health the necromancer can use to heal.(balm of the summer court style) And they are able to refill that pool whenever they deal damage with a necromancer spell or just spells in general.
What madness is this? Our all-knowing Overseers are WotC have divided the spells for a reason, Jim! If we let anyone cast any spell, the world would descend into chaos! The seas would boil, rocks falling from the skies, pizzas would be slightly undercooked, the sun would fizzle out! And worst of all, Taco Tuesday would be canceled.
One of the most solid opening skits I've seen from y'all, legitimately laughed at the spare the dying and raise dead puns. Keep up the awesome work, best wishes.
With regards to the question of "who controls all these undead for the state?" I actually have been using something similar to this, a rival kingdom run by a family of necromancers modeled off of the Voroshk from the Black Company novels. The idea being that the family rose to power and focused heavily on Necromancy to win a war a long time ago against rival practicioners. As a result they act as the backbone of the military and police. The family is prolific in their inbreeding in an attempt to keep the bloodline pure. As well as a whole bunch of rituals and patcs with extra dimensional evil that have strengthened the family. Though they don't "have" to be evil, it's just the way I went in my campaign.
Necromancer is one of those classes that just sounds like it would be huge fun, but its also one that really requires both a DM that will play ball with you and knows when to stop you. The idea of having your own undead legion is fun and all, but when you get to that ARMY level it just starts unraveling in my mind. The ideal way I could imagine a necromancer character being handled is with the air of one part pokemon trainer, one part football manager. That sort of activity is what the idea of a necromancer is what seems so fun about it. Playing Dr.Frankenstein and skulking around graveyards to dig up fresh graves for bodies to build your own special little flesh golem. Travelling the countryside in a cart full of wrapped up corpses, or bones. Being flanked by your undead servants who you'd dress in all encompassing robes and cloaks to hide their true nature. Maybe getting to revive one of those enticing bigger monsters, like ogres or trolls with their special abilities intact, or slightly altered. Thats where the pokemon part comes in for me. The limitation to just basic humanoids with nothing special going on is the biggest letdown I could imagine if I played a necromancer with basic animate dead. I want to have the ability to experiment and improve on my special little guys when downtime rolls around. This sort of stuff is what I would want as a necromancer and unfortunately I feel that much of stuff like this is impossible with basic rules. But hey! Thats why the rules are there just as guidelines. If I ever have the chance to create a necromancer, I will definitely bring up things like this to the DM. Theres a world of possibility in the necromancer.
You still can improve the humanoids but it's in a much more rigid and unintuitive way. And that's to take the skilled feat, and fabrication spell, and make them all higher grade weapons and armor.
I remember when all the healing spells where Necromancy. You could always revive some of the old spells like Larloch's Minor Drain and give them levels.
I always liked the idea of the Necromancer as a gatekeeper figure. If you look at the Necromancy spell list from 3rd Edition, you'll see things like Halt Undead, Undeath to Death, Speak with Dead, Gentle Repose, Command Undead which, if you don't use Animate Dead, paints the picture of someone who might dedicate their lives to putting the dead to proper rest. Who better than the gatekeeper Necromancer to commune with the ghosts haunting the local graveyard to see what keeps them there and see them put to rest? Who better to halt the advances of less scrupulous Necromancers? Throw in some Abjuration magic like Protection from Evil, Magic Circle and Banishment, and you've got yourself a potent keeper of the boundary between life and death. The study and manipulation of life and death doesn't necessarily mean that the student is setting out to create legions of the dead - they may just want to keep the living on the living side of the barrier and the dead resting peacefully.
For a while now, I've wanted to make a necromancer that would use the dead he raised to smuggle contraband into and out of a city by storing the items in the undeads' chest cavities.
I love this so much! I like the parliment of undead idea, seems like a good way to have interesting intrigue. In the interest of preserving knowledge, what about a class of people who memorize as much as they can, so when they die their mummified heads are turned into necromantic encyclopedias you can ask questions? I heard about those from somewhere but I can't remember where
The thing is, Speak with Dead is the only actual Necromancy spell. The word literally means to speak with the dead. Pyromancy is speaking with flame, etc.
There's toll the dead, chill touch, spare the dying. Is that it? What else could there be? Maybe a really small curse? Like vicious mockery or mind sliver but necrotic? A chilling whisper kind of thing that summons a small spirit to f*ck with an enemy and deals psychic damage?
10:18 let every caster know every spell? I'd love for a whole episode on this, or maybe some of a podcast dedicated to this. Maybe the sorcerer will finally find its shine
Yes, finally an episode about Necromancy! My favorite kind of magic! And I'll definitely be introducing some of your great ideas into my reworking of Necromancy for my own campaigns.
a necromancy idea that i have takes inspiration from Japan's haniwa statues and creating a special kind of golem that is made of clay that was mixed with ashes of cremated dead if someone does create such a golem and animate it through necromancy, then i propose it be called a "haniwa golem"
I love the discussion about weather or not necromancy is evil! Such an interesting topic. I once had a player in a campagin and he wanted to play a dwarven necromancer. As I always do I asked him questions like what fascinated your character when it comes to necromancy? That sort of thing. Eventually we figured out together that "Thagmir" was the first one to diagnose that the King under the mountain, "Dunmir" sorry my dwarven names are terrible I know, was ill. So Ill infact that there was no conventional medicine that could save him. The dwarven clans, jealeous and powerhungry as they are by nature readied themselves to pounce on the opportunity, preparing for the only thing that would leave no doubt in who was to succeed Dunmir: War. Thagmir knew he couldn't let that happen, a civil war now could have devastating consequeces, the whole kingdom was facing extinction yet nobody would listen to him so he seeked help in the forbidden knowledge of necromancy and when death came for Dunmir, he stood by his side and revivified the fallen king. "I owe you my child", the king said "but you have to leave for that is the law. Take however the Tomes of Necromancy with you so that noone else shall be tempted to follow your footsteps." Pretty epic backstory I still think, unfortunately I failed as a DM in making use of it. There were so many opportunities like maybe a bunch of Duergar getting wind of the dwarf that raised a king and trying to kidnap him to raise an army for them or whatever. Ended up not working out. Sadness.
As my favourite school of magic I wish Necromancy got more love spell wise. Where is my wall of skeletons that I can rip from the ground to block attacks, where is the huge skeletal hands of giant creatures which have died and have been buried over time and where is my ability to rip someone's soul out and put it into my skeleton so I can keep them as a slave forever.
Surprised no one mentioned Reincarnation. I can make a lot of defenses for why healing spells are separated between the schools but can someone explain to me why the healing spell that creates a new body and summons a soul into that body isn't necromancy? I would even take conjuration because you are not turning the corpse into a new body; you are making a brand new one.
Necromancy really seems to hinge on your settings cosmology. It can make the undead no different than golems or fragments of shattered souls dragged unwillngly from their God's embrace.
You guys should read the Necroscope book series for some nice ideas on undead/ghost uses and themes. Kind of an odd book series, but definitely cool because of the undead bent to it.
I love this! It gave me an idea for a gravekeeper that's legally been given the power to have the dead bury themselves in the lot, and give a little speech at their own funeral to help everyone move on. But they're not only a wizard specializing in necromany they're also a cleric, so that when they undead act out or someone tries to bring the dead out of their slumber he can use turn undead to stop them in their tracks
So. I just woke up, and checked to see if Web DM had uploaded so I could watch it later. And it’s Necromancy, my favourite school of magic. Well. Shoot. Guess I have to watch it now!
Loved this video! I think your explanation of whether or not raising the dead is good or evil was great; you may be a benevolent necromancer but you can’t really change the fact that the forces animating your undead are evil, according to the PHB anyway. For example, I have a level 9 human necromancer that I’ve loved playing so far. She grew up assisting her parents with their duties as town coroners and running the morgue. Her knowledge of anatomy and propensity toward magic lead her to pursue necromancy. She’s neutral good; she only raises enemies (bandits, villains to the party, etc.), and when attending her mage college, she was only raising dead that had donated their bodies to the school to further the pursuits of knowledge/magic. But as you said, the magic that animates the undead is evil, and that is a constant struggle for my character as she strives to give necromancers a good name. She may be striving for good, but that doesn’t guarantee that those around her will be okay with her raising the dead. She believes she’s giving previously “bad” people a chance to do something good by using them to assist her and the party. Her logic isn’t without its flaws, but that’s how I think it should be when you’re playing a necromancer...you have to be ready to defend your magic and stand up to people who would otherwise see you as evil. And a firm grasp and understanding of the magic that you use is essential to keeping your necromancer from falling off the deep end, or turning to the “dark side.” Here’s to necromancers using their powers for good! We’re misunderstood, even a little misguided...but damn it, we’re trying!
I figured out the advantages of using an undead army back when I played Heroes of Might and Magic 2. Getting reinforcements after every skirmish is just about the best positive feedback loop you could ever hope for in your war machine.
Grumpy Jim muttering that he's pretty sure the world wouldn't end and we'd still go to our bullshit jobs if you gave Casters access to all the spells is my DM spirit animal 😁
@@gabbonoo I don't know but rules as written it completely ignores the limitations and up keep of the other spells. Perhaps the idea is that it takes the potential energy of the person that would have continued living and flips it into negative energy. Forcing their own soul to power the undead creation?
so it's lazily worded and it would only run until the converted energy leaks out of the zombie? that idea makes it a bit easier on the dm for managing potential i think
Finger Of Death 7th level necromancy Casting Time: 1 action Range: 60 feet Components: V S Duration: Instantaneous Classes: Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard You send negative energy coursing through a creature that you can see within range, causing it searing pain. The target must make a Constitution saving throw. It takes 7d8 + 30 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. A humanoid killed by this spell rises at the start of your next turn as a zombie that is permanently under your command, following your verbal orders to the best of its ability. I would say that it being locked behind a 7th level spell slot to get one zombie is a pretty high cost. You also need a specific living humanoid. It only makes zombies. Those are a lot of limitations. It won't give you any high level or strong undead. A 7th level spell slot is not a small amount of energy and resources. I think that limiting it further with the zombies having a time limit would just be trying to limit the players in a DM VS PLAYER way.
Awesome video like always, you guys always deliver in the good stuff!!! Also if you guys are excited for Ravnica, could you do a video on it for all your viewers like me who also play MTG? That would be so cool!!! Thanks again!
Cant wait until you guys do an episode on Transmutation, I'm rolling up a Transmuter during my next campaign and wanna hear some cool thoughts and advice about the school.
I can say that when a person came to me with the idea of giving the necromancer healing spells, that are necromancy. It makes perfect sense and I was all for it. Although, I'm only reiterating what was discussed in yall's amazing conversations.
With the Ravnica settings book coming out you will have a ton of this. Golgari rot farms, the ghost council, undead assassins, it's going to be fun on the bun!
I'm actually building a black dragonborness necromancer right now named Karina umbra wyrms bile. I made my DM give me the " what did you do ?!" Look when I found a safe way of using the eye of vecna.
The impact of undead on a society: look at Nehekara from Warhammer Fantasy. The tomb kings, vampire queens, armies of undead, mummified war sphinxes. They seem to have thought out the impact of a military-industrial-necromantic complex pretty well there.
One of my issues with Necromancy (and magic schools in general) is that some powers are locked off for certain classes. Namely, that Necromancer Wizards can't use all the spells on the Necromancy school list. They can't use Raise Dead or other resurrecting spells, and they can't Speak With Dead. Despite, you know, "necromancy" originally meaning the ability to communicate with ghosts, for the purposes of learning about the past or future. It's weird, and I don't like it. Then again, I don't like that Wizards get no options for healing, other than edge cases like Vampiric Touch or the one where you damage yourself to heal others. I understand completely that these choices of spell lists are meant to maintain the purity of certain class themes, and all that. Maybe I'm just too used to Mage: The Ascension, where any mage of any magickal style could theoretically cast any spell, so long as they can justify it in-Paradigm. It just irks me, that DnD is very restrictive in that regard. Often arbitrarily so. I mean, Clerics can get storm or fire magic, depending on their Domain, but Wizards can't expand their spell lists depending on what school they specialize in? A Necromancer can't Speak With Dead, or a Conjurer is limited to conjuring only elementals?
There’s no way that’s gonna happen. That would break game balance. Because then an Evocation wizard would get healing spells, and the only thing keeping high-level Wizards from being that OP one-Man-army is that they can’t heal themselves.
What about a library that is just a bunch of preserved heads of important people and people who have seen specific events, which is tended by Necromancers and Grave Clerics. You use Speak with Dead in order to get any information from the library
As somebody who has only DM'd for 7 years straight and is about to go into his first campaign as a PC in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist and am beyond hyped to get my wizard rolling , I cannot wait for you guys to do the Abjuration episode because I cannot wait to counterspell and dispel magic all day long. (Deep Gnome Abjurer with Svirfneblin Magic)
I get the struggle homie. DM of 8 goin on 9 years with my latest campaing running mostly consistently for the last 2 and I've only been in an amount of games that could fit on one hand. None of those ever ran past 10ish sessions either. #EndGMtypecasting
I'm playing a necromancer wizard in my current campaign and it is fun. I haven't revealed to the rest of the group my character's necromancy or dark beliefs and I'm excited to do so
Speak with dead reminds me of a Lovecraft's tale "the case of charles dexter ward" I think it was where sort of a Necromancer uses the remains of the dead to gain knowledge from past times, I imagine this spell working like summoning a momentary ghost from the corpse which kinda works with necromancy.
Jim, you said you want an example of a Necromancer animating a powerful undead army. In Overlord Season 3 Episode 13, Ainz sacrifices 15,000 enemy soldiers to summon 5 giant multi-headed goat monsters, with *1 fuckin spell!* There weren't many, but they were nigh-invulnerable. Ah, such a great show....
I'm not sure on the book definition of speak with dead, but I would personally make it work similar to resurrection in having a time limit "spirit is still linked to the corpse for X time before you need a ritual/seance".
Concerning the spell "Speak with Dead", this spell is the heart of the historic term. The etymology of the term "necromancy" comes from the greek "necro-" (which means something like 'relating to the dead or a corpse') and "-mancy" (which refers to divination by some method - other examples: osteomancy, lithomancy, geomancy, etc). I think it would be cool to explain a necromancer character's spellcasting by saying he's called up and bound spirits to act on his behalf, generating the spell effects (which, I suppose, would work like Jack Vance's "Mind Demons" you mentioned he used in his magic system).
There are quite a few spells I would like added to the Necromancy spell list. I think they would be cool. 1) Spells for summoning the aid of incorporeal undead. Maybe even a couple spells, that divide between low-CR undead and higher CR undead, like how conjuring elementals is divided between regular and minor elementals. If these spells existed, I'd want to add a bunch more incorporeal undead stat blocks that casters could choose from. A few low-CR ones, that summon things like Fading Souls (ghosts so weak they are barely conscious) or Damned Souls (the souls of folks who suffer eternal torment). Maybe a blanket category for "Beast Souls", that has the creature use the stats for a Beast of a certain CR range (
The "Parliament of Corpses" idea is brilliant. Aside from jokes about it resembling the modern day House of Lords or US Senate, a "Parliament of Lichs" seems like something a magocracy would definitely have...
One idea I had for a necromancy focused party is to have a wizard-necromancer and a warlock with either the undying patron, or the Pumpkin King patron outlined on the Mage Hand Press website. The warlock's patron is basically Jack Skellington and he's tasked his warlocks with spreading the doctrine of Halloween and also populating Halloween Town. To do this most effectively the warlock and wizard have to raise undead or take over control of the ones the party fights. Then the rest of the party makes a distraction while the wizard sneaks all their undead minions into the graveyard behind the local church of whatever sun god exists in the campaign and holds them there while the warlock does a 1 minute ritual that turns the largest tombstone or mausoleum into a portal to Halloween Town. At some point the warlock should start trying to convert/dupe the wizard into serving Jack, and maybe give one or both of them a once per long rest spell/ability/boon that lets them summon a few dozen of the undead they've sent to Halloween Town for a few rounds. In any case the PCs in this odd couple would probably still be evil as all hell.
For the undead army idea, I'm picturing the necromancers acting like military officers - like centurions - controlling stronger undead who control lesser undead and etc.
Hey guys! I was wondering if you'd be interested in talking about how you two would go about survival aspects. Things like hunger, thirst, warmth, etc. I think it would be really cool to run a low level survival heavy campaign.
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Blindness deafness could be even illusion, altering your perception of your senses.
Video on True Polymorphing into an Adult Gold Dragon, question on retaining class abilities, and the ability of the Adult Gold Dragon Change Shape back into a humanoid, or is it even worthwhile to permanently polymorphing into an Adult Gold Dragon at all? Etc... True Polymorphing objects into creatures with legendary lair actions like unicorns and building an empire of powerful magical creatures.
i think that having zombies tending to the fields is a great idea, little pieces of rotting flesh would drop from time to time aporting a lot of nutrients to the ground
I’m not a necromancer
I’m just a wizard with a passion for recycling
Mo Christie That some really good spin.
69th like
I have been working on a "woke" necromancer that practices necromancy to be environmentally conscious.
Sounds like a Circle of Spores druid.
But circle of spores is all about decomposition and necromancy is typically interested in preservation. I'm sure you could come up with an odd-couple type relationship for them, but they're not natural allies I wouldn't think.
At first, I was confused why Jim was silent and motionless, staring at the camera during the intro.
But then I realized it was a *dead* pan.
"I think it's a good subject to raise, Pruitt".
**Crickets**
😂😂
well what do you expect from a audience that die laughing already?
Gold!
Idea for a necromantic society. The majority of citizens do not work a job during their life time, they spend their days doing whatever they want. When they die, their bodies are given to necromancers to raise into an undead workforce who do all the base level manual labor and act as the backbone of the military. The necromancers pay the family some fee for use of the body, and this money is what those family members live on instead of having jobs. Depending on how well a person took care of their body during their lifetime their corpse would last longer and be able to do more, so necromancers would pay extra for those bodies creating an incentive for people to not just turn into coach potatoes. Over time the necromancers are gaining more and more power and are able to make their undead perform more complex tasks. Work such as forging horseshoes or constructing houses which used to be done by living craftsmen can now be done by undead, creating conflict between the artisans and the necromancers. I think it would be really interesting to explore what such a society would look like.
Imagine an entire society of lifetime career bodybuilders.
I really like your idea. That is a great spin to use n a game. Maybe have a Warlock Necromancer where the caster is beholding to a "higher power" so he starts a cult to their deity. The cult takes over a small area of maybe 3 villiages or small towns. Maybe the cult takes over a town then builds 2 more in the area. The population is very small but everyone lives the rich life style from goods looted from caravans, travelers so forth.
Dude. This sounds like the perfect conflict to be having in the background while your party is campaigning in a city.
Socialism but it’s only for the necromancers
This sounds like Amonkhet in Magic the Gathering
"I think we'll see some cool stuff in the last season of GoT with their undead."
Well, that aged as well as a zombie... ;-)
Lol came back to revisit this episode and forgot about that line. Was gonna make this same comment :P
Necromancers always make me think if Wreck it Ralph "Just because you're a bad guy doesn't make you a Bad..Guy."
Well done as always guys!
Thanks Satan.
Wasn't it Seteen?
Find the Reddit story of Ashtashan the grey necromamcer. Loved it
I play chaotic good necromancer. Refuse to raise the dead of people who haven’t done evil without permission from their family/superior officers and then when their service is done, lay them back down to rest.
A great example of the "undead as workforce" trope is the plane of Amonkhet from Magic: The Gathering. The people of Naktamuun live a life without labor thanks to the HEAVY use of zombies, bound by magic (and in linen), for all tasks such as building and farming.
Literally the perfect example!
State Necromancers going to door to door to pick up corpses?.
"Bring out yer dead!" *bells ring* "Bring out yer dead!"
Necromancer: “I’m going to rule the world with an army of darkness
Evoker: “I’m gonna blow stuff up even harder”
This discussion really cheered me up on an otherwise terrible Thursday. It raised my spirits.
Thank you!
Hope your day continues to get better!
I'm sure it will. Things were looking pretty grave for a minute though!
noice, haven't watched it yet. i liked the illusion
This makes me want to run a megaman-esque campaign featuring all the different schools of magic as the "stages" in different parts of the world, each run by its own boss wizard.
Over here, you have Abjuman, and there is Necroman.
Would Megaman be a Fighter/Wizard multiclass with plate mail and their preferred weapon of thunder cannon? Bonus points they are a Warforged? XD
Sounds more like Thundarr the Barbarian. Beware Divo in the wizard citadel of Ation will see you coming.
Haha! maybe it's a given that everyone is actually a Warforged! Also, I hadn't heard of Thundarr before. That might be just as good of a comparison.
@@gbindahouse94 be the eldritch knight
Making a necromancer sure is tough but it is the Wight choice. You really don't want to mess with him, you'd be making a Grave mistake.
There's always going to be people who think you're evil just because you're a necromancer. You just have to face that fact DEAD on.
Pun
I just took 1d6 psychic damage
Just use blight on people you don't like to look like they died to a sickness and slowly spread it over a town and come by saying your doctor, get rid of the sickness once a majority of the town is infected by Blight to get GP lmao
This sounds like what you would get if you mixed some bard in there. And the undead band was born!!! sort of
"We can expect to see some pretty cool shit in the last season of Game of Thrones" damn, if only 😂
"We might see cool stuff with GoT zombie army during the final season" -past
"Hah!"-Now
Every caster having access to all spells! Madness! Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling. The dead rising from the grave. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria!
Or as Jim would call it, just another day. ;)
Reid Taylor if warlocks and sorcerers can have the Celestial patron and Divine Soul origin, respectively, and clerics and druids are allowed to cast Arcane spells through various Domains/Circles (not to mention bards who can pilfer any spell from any class using Magical Secrets), wizards should have some School with access to healing spells. It won’t break the game.
@@FelineElaj I completely agree, I just wanted to quote ghost busters 🤣
Dogs and cats fusing together*
What self respecting wizard isn't trying to mix shit that shouldn't.
I dunno, I think a wizard having access to Find Greater Steed by level 7 would be pretty ridiculous.
Something about having a griffon and casting from 120ft away that early sounds awful.
Transmuters can heal and resurrect.
The puns have extended their reach beyond the Intro.... these are dark times indeed. Surely the Puninning is upon us!
I deal with this at my table so much! I sometimes have to stop the session just to finish my laughter and then scold the punner.
C'mon man, you wasted an opportunity for "The Punnishing"
I've always thought of the "Schools" of magic as something akin to actual schools and philosophies more than mechanics. None of the schools make any kind of sense if you're looking at spells as a collection of in-game arcane mechanics. They've only ever made sense as a political/philosophical system of thought or an approach to problem solving using magic. The question and weakness is not "why is one spell in this particular school", but (in a spell system retaining its Vancian origins) why does a particular spell not fall into multiple schools when it would obviously make sense as a tool of a particular type of spellcasting doctrine?
The answer is in-game mechanics balance, rather than flavor. Essentially spell schools boil down to an amazing piece of flavor than morphed into a game mechanics abomination. The same reason why diving magic heals and arcane doesn't.
24:35 And speak with dead specifically is rock-solid Necromancy. Like Necromancy literally translates into speaking with the dead. Maybe it could be divination too, but that is really the only firmly necromancy spell there is. If the school of necromancy was renamed Vivamorteology or something, that would be different.
Ironically, necromancy used to be a divination magic irl, albeit a dark one. Hence the -mancy suffix.
In my home-brew version of e3.5, I do something similar with clerics, actually. Instead of having a set list of domains, I discuss the god with their player. A follower of the Goddess of Death, for example, might serve to hold of death as much as accelerate or manipulate it. At the end of the discussion, the player picks a domain based on how they want to follow their deity, and the deity picks a domain for them based on how they want the player to follow. It seems kinda funny, but it's always ended up being a logical, fair, and popular decision. So yeah - your idea. I like it. Might have to try it out, myself.
I predict the Conjuration school video will be very similar to this video. Is Conjuration evil, more so than Necromancy? For everything we've discussed in this video, Conjuration rips free-willed beings from across the cosmos and essentially enslaves them to you for a period of time, and those creatures can permanently die in your slavery. Calling is essentially the same except you just ripped a free-willed being and are forced to negotiate with it for service because it's not significantly weaker than you are. But keep in mind that Conjuration essentially allows to you bring both evil creatures into existence and let them loose upon the world, but you can also essentially call and bind into service or at least imprison good creatures near indefinitely. Why is that not also seen as evil? What even do summoning and calling have anything to do with the rest of conjuration's collected effects? Conjuration is a really odd-ball school in my opinion, way more so than Necromancy. Ditto for Enchantment. The schools of magic are not a collection of arcane spell mechanics. They're a particular school of though that focuses on problem solving by using a thematically similar collection of Vancian spells.
In my homebrew which has never seen the light of day at a table, I break down the mechanics of magic into an expanded list of spell seeds similar to 3.5 epic spell seeds. This gives a better idea of the mechanics of spell construction and component effects, if that ever matters for any reason, which it doesn't unless you're trying to create new spells. I generally retain the traditional schools of magic as a type of old-fashioned wizard university subject majors that don't make sense, kinda like magical subjects at Hogwarts (or Harry Potter "schools" of magic) because they always seemed incomplete and non-sensical.
@ Nitenshi: Exactly my point.
I love this response and couldn't agree more.
The biggest problem with a magic undead army is the same as the droid army from The Phantom Menace. There's a single point of failure. In a sapient army, if the leader dies, the next in the hierarchy immediately fills the void. In a necromantic army, killing the leader causes the followers to fall apart, wander off, or at the very least fall into disarray.
Jay Champagne that’s why most becromancers try to gain infinite life through the clone spell or through Lichdom
they have intelligent undead. And there are ways to raise greater intelligent undead with more permanent "life" and they raise their own undead! As a DM, i had a player do this once, the PC died, and well.... the next adventure the party went on was cleaning up all zombies and intelligent undead left.
but Zombies would work the fields AND fertilize it at the same time!!!
Reminds me of the Xanth zombies, that were constantly dropping off bits... and there were always more bits to drop off. They just magically generate bits just to drop them off. Would make a *great* gardener.
That's both disgusting and efficient lol
Yeah not eating those potatoes.
You'd have to boil your lettuce though.
God Damn!😂
Having the Healing spells with Necromancy just works really well. And it opens up an interesting look at RPing it. Example, using Necromancy and Healing to torture and extract information?
how about this. necromancers can heal, but at a cost to someone, so instead of giving out free hp their healing transfers hp from willing creatures (or unwilling critters, if you want a darker tone)
I've been homebrewing a system like that for a while, but getting bogged down in the detail! Kind of like the more you heal, the more you need to take life? Like balancing the cosmic scales of life? (Been going off the latest power set of Elixir from X-Men as an ideal image)
Enhanced interogation is evil. If you are evil, enjoy.
toss in a anti-druid necromancer healer...
take life from plants and heal self/others
or
use life of others to heal plants as nature intended.
and get a Druidic Lich... a lich sustained by Nature in protecting its Tranquil glades, enforced by vines and moss, since timeless body doesn't help in escaping death.
basically Leshens.
and its phylactery could be the Forest or an Elder tree in that Forest it is bound to.
@@originalitydied8667 How about you have a pool of health the necromancer can use to heal.(balm of the summer court style) And they are able to refill that pool whenever they deal damage with a necromancer spell or just spells in general.
Jim nailed that intro, well done gents!
What madness is this? Our all-knowing Overseers are WotC have divided the spells for a reason, Jim! If we let anyone cast any spell, the world would descend into chaos!
The seas would boil, rocks falling from the skies, pizzas would be slightly undercooked, the sun would fizzle out! And worst of all, Taco Tuesday would be canceled.
wouldn't pizza rain down on taco tuesdays, and every other day would be the tacos conquest?
Not An Enemy DOGS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER!!!!
Not Taco tuesday!
One of the most solid opening skits I've seen from y'all, legitimately laughed at the spare the dying and raise dead puns. Keep up the awesome work, best wishes.
I always get inspiration from these. A ghost senate... what if every emperor would join the senate after their death?
Jim doesn't blink once in that entire intro and now that's all I see in my nightmares.
With regards to the question of "who controls all these undead for the state?" I actually have been using something similar to this, a rival kingdom run by a family of necromancers modeled off of the Voroshk from the Black Company novels. The idea being that the family rose to power and focused heavily on Necromancy to win a war a long time ago against rival practicioners. As a result they act as the backbone of the military and police. The family is prolific in their inbreeding in an attempt to keep the bloodline pure. As well as a whole bunch of rituals and patcs with extra dimensional evil that have strengthened the family. Though they don't "have" to be evil, it's just the way I went in my campaign.
You guys need to tone down the sexual tension, that over sexualized opening made me very confused about my feelings...
(Insert boner joke here)
*(Insert boner)*
Those puns at the beginning soothe my soul. Also I've recently been thinking about the necromancy school, so this came at the perfect time for me.
Necromancer is one of those classes that just sounds like it would be huge fun, but its also one that really requires both a DM that will play ball with you and knows when to stop you. The idea of having your own undead legion is fun and all, but when you get to that ARMY level it just starts unraveling in my mind. The ideal way I could imagine a necromancer character being handled is with the air of one part pokemon trainer, one part football manager. That sort of activity is what the idea of a necromancer is what seems so fun about it.
Playing Dr.Frankenstein and skulking around graveyards to dig up fresh graves for bodies to build your own special little flesh golem. Travelling the countryside in a cart full of wrapped up corpses, or bones. Being flanked by your undead servants who you'd dress in all encompassing robes and cloaks to hide their true nature. Maybe getting to revive one of those enticing bigger monsters, like ogres or trolls with their special abilities intact, or slightly altered. Thats where the pokemon part comes in for me. The limitation to just basic humanoids with nothing special going on is the biggest letdown I could imagine if I played a necromancer with basic animate dead. I want to have the ability to experiment and improve on my special little guys when downtime rolls around.
This sort of stuff is what I would want as a necromancer and unfortunately I feel that much of stuff like this is impossible with basic rules. But hey! Thats why the rules are there just as guidelines. If I ever have the chance to create a necromancer, I will definitely bring up things like this to the DM. Theres a world of possibility in the necromancer.
That sounds so awesome when you think about it. I may have to remember this when I play D&S as a necromancer
You still can improve the humanoids but it's in a much more rigid and unintuitive way.
And that's to take the skilled feat, and fabrication spell, and make them all higher grade weapons and armor.
Thanks for another awesome video actually working with a Necromancer right now.
Usually the Work Place is full of Zombies.
Brew more coffee. They'll still be zombies, but with a higher move speed.
I remember when all the healing spells where Necromancy. You could always revive some of the old spells like Larloch's Minor Drain and give them levels.
I don't think I've ever seen Jim become so passionate about a subject before, as he is about explaining that creating a zombie is an evil act.
I just wanted to thank you guys again for leaving in Jim's belches. They just add character to the discussion :)
I was just thinking about the D&D version of necromancy today, and then bam! WebDM with a video on it!
I appreciate that the belch was left in the final cut
You guys have gotten so popular.
Much deserved
I always liked the idea of the Necromancer as a gatekeeper figure. If you look at the Necromancy spell list from 3rd Edition, you'll see things like Halt Undead, Undeath to Death, Speak with Dead, Gentle Repose, Command Undead which, if you don't use Animate Dead, paints the picture of someone who might dedicate their lives to putting the dead to proper rest. Who better than the gatekeeper Necromancer to commune with the ghosts haunting the local graveyard to see what keeps them there and see them put to rest? Who better to halt the advances of less scrupulous Necromancers? Throw in some Abjuration magic like Protection from Evil, Magic Circle and Banishment, and you've got yourself a potent keeper of the boundary between life and death. The study and manipulation of life and death doesn't necessarily mean that the student is setting out to create legions of the dead - they may just want to keep the living on the living side of the barrier and the dead resting peacefully.
For a while now, I've wanted to make a necromancer that would use the dead he raised to smuggle contraband into and out of a city by storing the items in the undeads' chest cavities.
I love this so much! I like the parliment of undead idea, seems like a good way to have interesting intrigue.
In the interest of preserving knowledge, what about a class of people who memorize as much as they can, so when they die their mummified heads are turned into necromantic encyclopedias you can ask questions? I heard about those from somewhere but I can't remember where
The thing is, Speak with Dead is the only actual Necromancy spell. The word literally means to speak with the dead. Pyromancy is speaking with flame, etc.
Jim: *makes GoT comments at 18:43 *
Me, time travelling: honestly, maybe don't watch it. And go buy tons of toilet paper and N95s. Like, now.
Its time to boogie with the bone to throw down with thralls and shake it with shadows with webdm good morning ya'll
What I dislike is the seemingly lack of necromancy spells (Cantrips particularly).
There's toll the dead, chill touch, spare the dying. Is that it?
What else could there be?
Maybe a really small curse? Like vicious mockery or mind sliver but necrotic? A chilling whisper kind of thing that summons a small spirit to f*ck with an enemy and deals psychic damage?
10:18 let every caster know every spell? I'd love for a whole episode on this, or maybe some of a podcast dedicated to this. Maybe the sorcerer will finally find its shine
Yes, finally an episode about Necromancy! My favorite kind of magic! And I'll definitely be introducing some of your great ideas into my reworking of Necromancy for my own campaigns.
Did jim loose some weight? Suits him good. Also, after watching the old videos i have to say that the beard fits pruitt well
The only Web DM episode that has more puns than the Dwarf one. Great episode btw, In my campaign i am having necromancy have healing.
that game of thrones prediction hurts
a necromancy idea that i have takes inspiration from Japan's haniwa statues
and creating a special kind of golem that is made of clay that was mixed with ashes of cremated dead
if someone does create such a golem and animate it through necromancy, then i propose it be called a "haniwa golem"
I love the discussion about weather or not necromancy is evil! Such an interesting topic.
I once had a player in a campagin and he wanted to play a dwarven necromancer. As I always do I asked him questions like what fascinated your character when it comes to necromancy? That sort of thing. Eventually we figured out together that "Thagmir" was the first one to diagnose that the King under the mountain, "Dunmir" sorry my dwarven names are terrible I know, was ill. So Ill infact that there was no conventional medicine that could save him. The dwarven clans, jealeous and powerhungry as they are by nature readied themselves to pounce on the opportunity, preparing for the only thing that would leave no doubt in who was to succeed Dunmir: War. Thagmir knew he couldn't let that happen, a civil war now could have devastating consequeces, the whole kingdom was facing extinction yet nobody would listen to him so he seeked help in the forbidden knowledge of necromancy and when death came for Dunmir, he stood by his side and revivified the fallen king. "I owe you my child", the king said "but you have to leave for that is the law. Take however the Tomes of Necromancy with you so that noone else shall be tempted to follow your footsteps."
Pretty epic backstory I still think, unfortunately I failed as a DM in making use of it. There were so many opportunities like maybe a bunch of Duergar getting wind of the dwarf that raised a king and trying to kidnap him to raise an army for them or whatever. Ended up not working out. Sadness.
This is such an awesome channel and I hope we get more from these two either DnD or something else ^^
As my favourite school of magic I wish Necromancy got more love spell wise.
Where is my wall of skeletons that I can rip from the ground to block attacks, where is the huge skeletal hands of giant creatures which have died and have been buried over time and where is my ability to rip someone's soul out and put it into my skeleton so I can keep them as a slave forever.
Surprised no one mentioned Reincarnation. I can make a lot of defenses for why healing spells are separated between the schools but can someone explain to me why the healing spell that creates a new body and summons a soul into that body isn't necromancy? I would even take conjuration because you are not turning the corpse into a new body; you are making a brand new one.
Necromancy really seems to hinge on your settings cosmology.
It can make the undead no different than golems or fragments of shattered souls dragged unwillngly from their God's embrace.
Skeletons tending the vineyards, and crushing grapes. Yes
You guys should read the Necroscope book series for some nice ideas on undead/ghost uses and themes. Kind of an odd book series, but definitely cool because of the undead bent to it.
"I suspect we'll see something cool in Game of Thrones in the last season with it's undead army."- This aged really well...
I love this! It gave me an idea for a gravekeeper that's legally been given the power to have the dead bury themselves in the lot, and give a little speech at their own funeral to help everyone move on. But they're not only a wizard specializing in necromany they're also a cleric, so that when they undead act out or someone tries to bring the dead out of their slumber he can use turn undead to stop them in their tracks
So. I just woke up, and checked to see if Web DM had uploaded so I could watch it later. And it’s Necromancy, my favourite school of magic. Well. Shoot. Guess I have to watch it now!
thursday is game night for me and my friends so watching your vids in the morning is always great
Every spell for every caster type?!? ARE YOU A MADMAN, Jim?
Loved this video! I think your explanation of whether or not raising the dead is good or evil was great; you may be a benevolent necromancer but you can’t really change the fact that the forces animating your undead are evil, according to the PHB anyway. For example, I have a level 9 human necromancer that I’ve loved playing so far. She grew up assisting her parents with their duties as town coroners and running the morgue. Her knowledge of anatomy and propensity toward magic lead her to pursue necromancy. She’s neutral good; she only raises enemies (bandits, villains to the party, etc.), and when attending her mage college, she was only raising dead that had donated their bodies to the school to further the pursuits of knowledge/magic. But as you said, the magic that animates the undead is evil, and that is a constant struggle for my character as she strives to give necromancers a good name. She may be striving for good, but that doesn’t guarantee that those around her will be okay with her raising the dead. She believes she’s giving previously “bad” people a chance to do something good by using them to assist her and the party. Her logic isn’t without its flaws, but that’s how I think it should be when you’re playing a necromancer...you have to be ready to defend your magic and stand up to people who would otherwise see you as evil. And a firm grasp and understanding of the magic that you use is essential to keeping your necromancer from falling off the deep end, or turning to the “dark side.” Here’s to necromancers using their powers for good! We’re misunderstood, even a little misguided...but damn it, we’re trying!
I figured out the advantages of using an undead army back when I played Heroes of Might and Magic 2. Getting reinforcements after every skirmish is just about the best positive feedback loop you could ever hope for in your war machine.
10:15 - 10:38 is straight up my sense of humor. I love you guys!
Would you consider creating (or linking to if it already exists) a list of what spells would be rearranged and into what schools they'd fall?
I LIKE PUNS
Ah, another person of culture, I see.
Grumpy Jim muttering that he's pretty sure the world wouldn't end and we'd still go to our bullshit jobs if you gave Casters access to all the spells is my DM spirit animal 😁
But is it evil if if you only create skeletons out of dinosaur fossils or are you really cool for riding T rex in to battle
I always wonder why "create undead" is worse than dnd5e.wikia.com/wiki/Charm_Person
Love these videos! Y'all are really fun to listen to while I prepare my own campaign. :D
Finger of death gives you permanent undead always under your control no limitations.
So does it tie the corpse to your anima, create a necro-perpetual motion machine or make a beacon for necromantic energies? I wana see how it works
@@gabbonoo I don't know but rules as written it completely ignores the limitations and up keep of the other spells. Perhaps the idea is that it takes the potential energy of the person that would have continued living and flips it into negative energy. Forcing their own soul to power the undead creation?
so it's lazily worded and it would only run until the converted energy leaks out of the zombie? that idea makes it a bit easier on the dm for managing potential i think
Finger Of Death
7th level necromancy
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V S
Duration: Instantaneous
Classes: Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard
You send negative energy coursing through a creature that you can see within range, causing it searing pain. The target must make a Constitution saving throw. It takes 7d8 + 30 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
A humanoid killed by this spell rises at the start of your next turn as a zombie that is permanently under your command, following your verbal orders to the best of its ability.
I would say that it being locked behind a 7th level spell slot to get one zombie is a pretty high cost. You also need a specific living humanoid. It only makes zombies. Those are a lot of limitations. It won't give you any high level or strong undead. A 7th level spell slot is not a small amount of energy and resources. I think that limiting it further with the zombies having a time limit would just be trying to limit the players in a DM VS PLAYER way.
Is there a limit on the number of zombies created? If not, there’s your army
Awesome video like always, you guys always deliver in the good stuff!!! Also if you guys are excited for Ravnica, could you do a video on it for all your viewers like me who also play MTG? That would be so cool!!! Thanks again!
Cant wait until you guys do an episode on Transmutation, I'm rolling up a Transmuter during my next campaign and wanna hear some cool thoughts and advice about the school.
I do believe I have a new favorite episode.
I can say that when a person came to me with the idea of giving the necromancer healing spells, that are necromancy. It makes perfect sense and I was all for it. Although, I'm only reiterating what was discussed in yall's amazing conversations.
With the Ravnica settings book coming out you will have a ton of this. Golgari rot farms, the ghost council, undead assassins, it's going to be fun on the bun!
I'm actually building a black dragonborness necromancer right now named Karina umbra wyrms bile. I made my DM give me the " what did you do ?!" Look when I found a safe way of using the eye of vecna.
The impact of undead on a society: look at Nehekara from Warhammer Fantasy. The tomb kings, vampire queens, armies of undead, mummified war sphinxes. They seem to have thought out the impact of a military-industrial-necromantic complex pretty well there.
One of my issues with Necromancy (and magic schools in general) is that some powers are locked off for certain classes. Namely, that Necromancer Wizards can't use all the spells on the Necromancy school list. They can't use Raise Dead or other resurrecting spells, and they can't Speak With Dead. Despite, you know, "necromancy" originally meaning the ability to communicate with ghosts, for the purposes of learning about the past or future. It's weird, and I don't like it.
Then again, I don't like that Wizards get no options for healing, other than edge cases like Vampiric Touch or the one where you damage yourself to heal others. I understand completely that these choices of spell lists are meant to maintain the purity of certain class themes, and all that. Maybe I'm just too used to Mage: The Ascension, where any mage of any magickal style could theoretically cast any spell, so long as they can justify it in-Paradigm. It just irks me, that DnD is very restrictive in that regard. Often arbitrarily so. I mean, Clerics can get storm or fire magic, depending on their Domain, but Wizards can't expand their spell lists depending on what school they specialize in? A Necromancer can't Speak With Dead, or a Conjurer is limited to conjuring only elementals?
You *are* aware that in 5e a Wizard can cast any Wizard spell, regardless of school, right?
There’s no way that’s gonna happen. That would break game balance. Because then an Evocation wizard would get healing spells, and the only thing keeping high-level Wizards from being that OP one-Man-army is that they can’t heal themselves.
You had me at “A good subject to raise”
What about a library that is just a bunch of preserved heads of important people and people who have seen specific events, which is tended by Necromancers and Grave Clerics. You use Speak with Dead in order to get any information from the library
I love the idea of the Rogue and Necromancer interrogating someone. Rogue repeatedly killing and Necromancer resurrecting the target.
As somebody who has only DM'd for 7 years straight and is about to go into his first campaign as a PC in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist and am beyond hyped to get my wizard rolling , I cannot wait for you guys to do the Abjuration episode because I cannot wait to counterspell and dispel magic all day long. (Deep Gnome Abjurer with Svirfneblin Magic)
I get the struggle homie. DM of 8 goin on 9 years with my latest campaing running mostly consistently for the last 2 and I've only been in an amount of games that could fit on one hand. None of those ever ran past 10ish sessions either. #EndGMtypecasting
Really excited that we're getting a campaign book for Eberron this year. The Undying Court is a really good example of a non-evil necromancy society.
I'm playing a necromancer wizard in my current campaign and it is fun. I haven't revealed to the rest of the group my character's necromancy or dark beliefs and I'm excited to do so
Speak with dead reminds me of a Lovecraft's tale "the case of charles dexter ward" I think it was where sort of a Necromancer uses the remains of the dead to gain knowledge from past times, I imagine this spell working like summoning a momentary ghost from the corpse which kinda works with necromancy.
Jim, you said you want an example of a Necromancer animating a powerful undead army.
In Overlord Season 3 Episode 13, Ainz sacrifices 15,000 enemy soldiers to summon 5 giant multi-headed goat monsters, with *1 fuckin spell!*
There weren't many, but they were nigh-invulnerable. Ah, such a great show....
Jim, sir, you have one hell of a poker face. Spooked me something fierce :V
“Game of thrones will do cool shit with the undead army in its last season.” We we’re so young and naive back then.
Your prediction about GoT having some interesting info about the undead army was a jinx haha!
Regarding the spell schools discussion: I would love to see a spell list with revised schools by Jim Davis. It would be a great resource.
I'm not sure on the book definition of speak with dead, but I would personally make it work similar to resurrection in having a time limit "spirit is still linked to the corpse for X time before you need a ritual/seance".
Concerning the spell "Speak with Dead", this spell is the heart of the historic term. The etymology of the term "necromancy" comes from the greek "necro-" (which means something like 'relating to the dead or a corpse') and "-mancy" (which refers to divination by some method - other examples: osteomancy, lithomancy, geomancy, etc). I think it would be cool to explain a necromancer character's spellcasting by saying he's called up and bound spirits to act on his behalf, generating the spell effects (which, I suppose, would work like Jack Vance's "Mind Demons" you mentioned he used in his magic system).
Brandon Sanderson's Warbreaker is another excellent example of undead being used in a society.
There are quite a few spells I would like added to the Necromancy spell list. I think they would be cool.
1) Spells for summoning the aid of incorporeal undead. Maybe even a couple spells, that divide between low-CR undead and higher CR undead, like how conjuring elementals is divided between regular and minor elementals. If these spells existed, I'd want to add a bunch more incorporeal undead stat blocks that casters could choose from. A few low-CR ones, that summon things like Fading Souls (ghosts so weak they are barely conscious) or Damned Souls (the souls of folks who suffer eternal torment). Maybe a blanket category for "Beast Souls", that has the creature use the stats for a Beast of a certain CR range (
The "Parliament of Corpses" idea is brilliant. Aside from jokes about it resembling the modern day House of Lords or US Senate, a "Parliament of Lichs" seems like something a magocracy would definitely have...
One idea I had for a necromancy focused party is to have a wizard-necromancer and a warlock with either the undying patron, or the Pumpkin King patron outlined on the Mage Hand Press website. The warlock's patron is basically Jack Skellington and he's tasked his warlocks with spreading the doctrine of Halloween and also populating Halloween Town.
To do this most effectively the warlock and wizard have to raise undead or take over control of the ones the party fights.
Then the rest of the party makes a distraction while the wizard sneaks all their undead minions into the graveyard behind the local church of whatever sun god exists in the campaign and holds them there while the warlock does a 1 minute ritual that turns the largest tombstone or mausoleum into a portal to Halloween Town.
At some point the warlock should start trying to convert/dupe the wizard into serving Jack, and maybe give one or both of them a once per long rest spell/ability/boon that lets them summon a few dozen of the undead they've sent to Halloween Town for a few rounds.
In any case the PCs in this odd couple would probably still be evil as all hell.
For the undead army idea, I'm picturing the necromancers acting like military officers - like centurions - controlling stronger undead who control lesser undead and etc.
Could you play a wizard necromancer that does not use animate dead or stuff like that? Like using debuff, reviving spells and damaging spells?
Hey guys! I was wondering if you'd be interested in talking about how you two would go about survival aspects. Things like hunger, thirst, warmth, etc. I think it would be really cool to run a low level survival heavy campaign.