Why is there this demand for pleasure? | J. Krishnamurti
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2019
- Subtitles available in: DUTCH, ENGLISH, TAMIL
Saanen 1976 - Extract from Public Talk #4
Why is there this demand for pleasure?
---
This channel is managed by the Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK, and by the Krishnamurti Foundation of America.
The role of the foundations was described by Krishnamurti when he said, 'The foundations will see to it that these teachings are kept whole, are not distorted, are not made corrupt. They will not give rise to any sectarian spirit in their activities... nor create any kind of place of worship around the teachings or the person.'
We maintain extensive archives of Krishnamurti's original works and all four Krishnamurti foundations are actively engaged in the publication of material in various forms.
Our videos contain thousands of subtitles in more than 25 languages, translated by volunteers from all over the world. If you would like to help us with translating subtitles, please contact us at digital@kfoundation.org
For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:
International Site - www.jkrishnamurti.org/
Facebook - / jk.krishnamurti
Twitter - / orgkrishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - www.kfoundation.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - www.fkla.org/
This organization is a registered charity. Registered charity number: 312865
© 1976 Krishnamurti Foundation Trust
TRANSCRIPT
So we are asking: why man, throughout the world, at whatever level of society, class he may be, this is one thing he is pursuing, in the name of god, in the name of religion, in the name of politics - pleasure, with which goes power, position, prestige and all the rest of it - why? You understand? Why are you, as a human being, representing the world, which you are, why are you pursuing pleasure? Observe it - not right or wrong. Why is there this demand? You understand? When you go to church, when you go to a temple, it is another form of pleasure. Sexual pleasure, the pleasure of possession, the pleasure of denial, the pleasure of austerity, the pleasure of abundance, the pleasure of possession, the pleasure of detachment, the pleasure of achievement, the pleasure of renunciation; the pleasure of completely controlling your body. This immense structure of pleasure is one of the factors of our consciousness, perhaps it may be one of the major factors. So why? You understand? You can’t answer, not a verbal answer. Observing this fact of pleasure, why - we are asking - man has pursued it upon millions of years - which is you.
Knowledge is a great factor of pleasure - the pleasure of having read a great many books, all the information, able to talk about it, inform people - you follow? - the whole pleasure of knowledge. Why? Observe it, please, in yourself. Why you, as a human being, pursue this pleasure? And what is pleasure? There are different kinds of pleasure: the pleasure of sensation, biological, organic sensation; there is the pleasure - psychological pleasures, and the pleasure of thinking very clearly. And what is this pleasure? Is joy, that thing which comes uninvited, is that joy pleasure? You are wandering by yourself, if you ever do - in a wood, or you walk along and suddenly without your any invitation, without seeking it, there is that peculiar sense of ecstasy, joy. That is wholly different from pleasure. But thought recognises that joy as an extraordinary state, then remembers that state - please follow this - remembers that state and wants more of it. So pleasure is the movement of thought. I wonder if you see it.
I have had a pleasure of a good meal and I remember it, and I say to myself, ‘I must have it tomorrow’. The pleasure of domination, pleasure of having power over others. All that is the movement of thought over an incident which has happened, and stored up as memory. And the movement of that is pleasure. So joy is entirely different from pleasure. The moment you remember that joy then it becomes pleasure.
And enjoyment: when you see a mountain, listen to the running waters, or see a green field and the lonely tree in a field, there is delight, there is a sense of fullness, appreciation of this vastness of this marvellous earth. Again that feeling of enjoyment is taken over by thought and pursued. Therefore that becomes pleasure. Is this clear?
So pleasure is the movement of thought in time, and we are conditioned to that. We seek enlightenment, a religious life, basically because it will give ultimate pleasure. Right? So pleasure is one of our basic principles in life, which is, the pursuit of it. Not seeing the immense importance of seeing something extraordinary and not storing it. You understand? I wonder. This is, please if I may point out to you again, this is very important because the brain is recording all the time, recording every incident, every happening, every experience, every - you follow? - it is like a computer, storing, storing, storing. Because in that storage there is great security. If there is no storing up you are lost. So the brain needs security to function safely, intelligently, actively, efficiently. And so the brain stores up, as it stores up to act skilfully in the mechanical world, so brain stores up memory, knowledge, as a means of its own security, which is obvious.
Now as long as that is operating, there is nothing new. Right? As long as the brain is operating, functioning, using its knowledge in skills, it is limited, it becomes mechanical. In that there is no basic freedom. So we are saying: is it possible to see something lovely, look at it, give your complete attention to it and not record it? The moment you record it, it becomes the pursuit of pleasure. You understand? So is that possible? You have a most pleasurable happening, extraordinarily pleasurable; to observe it and to be so completely attentive that the brain doesn’t record. Then that incident is over and not carried over. So that is important to find out because it is part of meditation, this is real meditation, if you want to go into it very deeply, this is real meditation, because to find out if there is in the area of the brain, or in the mind, in the universe, in the global existence, a state, a dimension in which thought has never entered, therefore culture, civilisation has never touched it. To find that out, and that is real meditation, that is the real religious life, to find that out. One must find out why this recording process goes on all the time. Do you understand? If the process goes on all the time then the brain becomes mechanical. Our brains are mechanical - part of it. Is there another part of the brain which is not mechanical? To find that out, registration must come to an end. You follow? See the sequence of it for yourself. Not because I am capable of a good argument or anything of that kind, but see it for yourself how important it is to find out if there is an area where thought, with its mechanistic activity has never entered. And you can only find that out if the registration process comes to an end. That is, can the brain observe, be fully completely attentive, with all the senses, to that particular happening, to that particular incident, be fully aware? And when it is so completely aware there is no recording. You can do it for yourself, you can see it. If you can look at something, doesn’t matter what it is, with all your senses - not intellectually, not visually, not merely hearing - but with every nerve, with every sense fully awakened, to observe that incident, however pleasurable, however painful, then you will see there is no record. Don’t agree with me. Don’t say, ‘Yes, that is marvellous’ - do it! That means you have to find out what it means to be aware. What is implied in that word. Is it something to be practised? ‘Oh, I shall become gradually aware, I am not now but I will be the day after tomorrow.’ Or go to classes to learn how to be aware. All that is so silly. Cut it out.
So: you are only aware now or never. You understand? Either you are - you can’t cultivate it, then what you cultivate is the desire to achieve something. And when there is a desire to achieve something then you have lost totally the beauty, the perfume of awareness. Do you understand?
You guys are awesome! This one is an Intense Video. 🙏 Thanks a lot. Be blessed always 🙂
Thanks for the transcription :)
Thank you! This has helped me see deeply the action i take based on the thought of pleasure. And how the thought of pleasure and expecting things from people, expecting spiritual experience and so forth clouds the mind. Once you recognize it instantly it goes away!
Yes
@biomagnetista no, dont give argument. Just do it. You just act out of knowlage of it, you expect, you have memory.
He almost jumps out of his chair , soo much passion, energy, vitality... Love him!
May be talking about these things gave him pleasure
@@mythreyant3374 no. Necessity made him do it!
@@mythreyant3374 Vitality. A translater. An observer of Truth.
Indeed, Unbelievable!
There is no passion in him. There is only love for truth in him.
This guy is the real deal...a refreshing whiff of perfume...so very different from yogis and gurus and babas of today who have violent followers.
"the perfume of awareness." This man is so beautiful.
when you start desiring something you're already lost. the hardest game ever.
Question is who is deserving ?? Who is that always unsatisfied
@@parthpawar nobody is,its yust condition of habits and things that we were told to do and learned from others trought life,but oufcourse its not that simple,its portrayed to be so simple cas that is the most opposite,everything is being labeld to identity and ego which had overtaken our self,but once again even without identity and ego or mind there is still self and as self u can still choose to do things and to feel without feeling which many try to discredit and mislead by saying even that is false identity/ego or mind,truth is taht while we are here in this bidy and in this life its not wrong to to be experiencing some things which other realized biengs may say its falsness,its falsness if ur not aware of how those things function and what they are,well i tryed to explain something simple but its not as simple to explain.
man.... Whenever he speakes, its like i get hypnotised and just go deep with him
Awesome explanation
The pleasure of listening to your talks 😄
The joy of realizing the power of your message when life happens🙂
14:33 "you are only aware now ... or never". This sentence right here implies that one must stay alert all the time. Note how thoughts arise from time to time to claim the responsibility over actions, or even over previous thougts whose ultimate pupose is to strengthen the self/center. Thus one stays alert of thoughts as they arise. As K said thought and (psychological) time are the same, in this alertness one actually lives in the now or timeless state.
Not alert, not conscious but becoming aware of the thoughts!
Im not sure is there not a mistake in subtilities. I hear (may be wrong), that there are "you can only aware now AND never" means, do i now once, and not in the future, because You can never do it in future.
Well u are always aware but thing is most of ppl dont know of what they are aware of,they are aware without knowing that they are aware.
@@Last.Dark.Emperor You can’t be aware without knowing what you’re aware of. What you’re saying doesn’t make sense.
Thank you for writing this comment ☺️
Pleasure is another form of our thought. We remember the good feelings. We wants more so as to seek more. Once you record it, you will pursit it again. But the problem is you lost joy. And pleasure always has sorrow in dark side. Once you recognise this, you can get free from it.
What happens when we get free from it do we get pleasure??
@@hritikkumar6442 When you get free you get freedom.
14:28 “and you take classes to be more aware.. that’s so damn- oh excuse me , thats so silly” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Had the good fortune of attending his discussions in person held in India and the US. It was mesmerizing indeed, because he touches the deep nerve of truth inside you. I could of course never fathom the depth from where he saw his light, but the dim light he switched on four decades ago is still flickering inside me and helped me throughout life - often helping the mind quietly discern during difficult periods. That insight offers profound humility that is hard to describe. And so grateful to him for my occasionally quiet mind. The earlier you discover the ways of your mind the better. I think everyone who pays serious attention to these discourses WILL benefit some time in some way. In my long humble search, I found that every other other spiritual guru in recent history is inferior in some way to JK in their approach to the subject, have secretly borrowed from him and hence peddling second hand stuff. I am sorry for most of them.
You're very lucky indeed
Thanks for the lovely comment
I almost made a teacher out of him but realized that would go against many things he says. Retention seems similar to registration (which is talked about here) about having a memory and pursuing it instead of not recording.
Krishna ji is the only one man in the world who has no other substitution
This man is the coolest guy someone can have as a friend!
The more I meditate the more I understand Jk, clear seeing, clear discernment, I understand real meditation is not closing eyes and sitting on cushion even though I do it on real basis.
I was just blown away by zeal of the man,
Truly inspired, and inspiring. A rare event. The world stood still for a moment when he spoke.
An information which answers or solves most of the problems on the earth right now...
My great many thanks to who exactly extracted the talk...
1976
The pleasure of SPEAKING as a speaker also, OBSERVE it, don't just observe his words, observe his EVERYTHING
One example that shows this, could be that as a society we are taking pictures or videos in the ‘hope’ to capture that joy we are experiencing in that very moment, with the plan to look at it again and get joy from it.
Therefore trying to ensure joy for ourselves down the line (which is pleasure), destroying the moment of joy we are currently in.🤦🏼
We are soooo hooked on pleasure we have extended our brain’s memory with memory cards! Pleasure hoarders!
Shame joy only comes but once at a time!
Thank you for sharing your insight ❤️
He is the bridge for next human evolution
A nice way to put it. How many are interested in getting 'across' ?
How to incite interest? How to point at the river, the bridge and all things at the limits of thought and language ?
@@annelbeab8124 how do you stop thought any way?!
To those whom are questioning the quality or value of this video, it is Priceless. You could go your whole life without understanding how something so profound as this was could be this insightful an promising; Questioning yourself in this manner to reach some understanding of what is as perhaps enlightenment can be shall be but comes with a lack of awareness. live it! Love it!😇 i found a place moments before he said this I was meditating an it was like he was saying what I was thinking I had to look over at him astonished by what he had just said not that my mind was not blown away already thank you for the serenity.
The first 10 second hit me to my heart 💜. Let’s keep going 🔑😃
This guy resonates with the heart ❤️
So there should be no storing, accumulation during the joyful experience so that you are not able to think about it afterwards. Then joy doesnt turn into pleasure. Great teaching
this is the best video of him. he is so clear and so passionate and so in it! I am so grateful for that! thanks J.J.
Epic talk, thank you!!!!
Beautiful!
The Boss at his discerning Best 🙏
One unique soul. Please let us alas catch up to the a priori common sense quality all those 60+ yrs sought to edify.
Simply Super. Thank you so much for uploading these videos.
Brilliant...
JK, you made me cry often, for feeling the love from you, for the joy I got from your intelligence, and for the love I felt towards you. Thank you so much, and thank JK's team to share this with us. Love you all.
This is powerful!
One of the best talks of K . Thank you for uploading 🙏🙏
Thank you so much ❤️
Graziiiiiiieeeeeee ...E' indescrivibile il sentimento che provo ascoltando questo essere umano ,che con tanto amore e energia ci trasmette messaggi unici e veritieri quando siamo in grado di osservare in noi stessi e comprendere che ogniuno di noi E' IL RAPPRESENTANTE DEL MONDO QUINDI IL MONDO STESSO ....E TUTTA L'UMANITA ....QUINDI NOI STESSI SIAMO IL CAMBIAMENTO .....❤😂❤
🔥 thank you!
....quindi sono Con sapevole solo ora o Mai piu' ......essere presenti e consapevoli in ogni istante e' Vera meditazione .....quanta passione ed energia ci viene trasmessa dalla sua presenza e parole ...GRAZIIIIIIE ❤ a tutti coloro che ci caricano questi preziosi video ❤
Wow so profound! Thank you so much ❤️🙏
Amazing insight...
Wow the words 🙏
GREAT THANKS YOU
Thank you
I am really happy that i found him.
Thank you❤
So powerful
So nice
Thanks for subtitles
Observe it.. Wow!..
There is no god, but there is Jiddu Krishnamurti. Beautiful, unreplacable mind.
What? He breaks down religion into spirituality he never disputed God !!! he asked questions that disputed religion to its core. Sir
@@mikewright902 nice
This is amazing
So great .... no words to describe
This is brilliant! ❤❤❤
Always a BLESSING to me 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
The Man with Highest Mind form .. true revolution, thank you
I humbly appreciate the transcript thank you I wish more lectures came with one
Top class
So true. That’s why complete awareness and total concentration in all our actions is so important. Very well explained. Thank you so much🙏🙏
Concentration is the wrong word. JK has spoken a lot on this.
Yes!!!! ♥️♥️♥️♥️🙏♥️💗💗💗
K......❤️
KrishnaGGG. Brother... :)
Now I understood from where Sandeep sir has got all his wisdom from.
Insightful
Thought & awareness is reciprocal to each other.
wow! yes. "i" think, therefore "i" am; there is no "i" in awareness.
@@ranirathi3379 awearness is a hub for thoughts and movements to happen while the self is behind all of that unafacted while all else is affected.
Reality is something which is not cultivated by thought.meditation is the process of finding that reality.
They say let there be no processing.. no mediation.. and the like of activities.. but just BE. The effortless effort. To remove all the limitations without any effort or activity but to realise that there can't be any activity possible in the SELF.
Those words are usual in every meditation sir...but not by JK..he said to be aware...
@@sriramreddy123 well when u are your self in the self ur always fully aware,thers nothing else than your self.
Pleasure only possible after Survival, so for body pleasure is another survival.
👏🏽🌹👏🏽🌹👏🏽🌹👏🏽
🙏
🖤
This is really a good lecture
Good god
mind blowing 🤯... i am still trying to absorb the sequence.. pleasure recorded
Pleasure or sorrow, they only menifests to the mind which is slave of the senses. Pleasure of..
√ knowing something better then others.
✓Pleasure of possession of something which not accessible to others
✓ pleasure of Being more religious then others
✓ pleasure of being a wise man
When you seek pleasure the sorrow is bound to come along with it. Both are the two side of same coin. You can't afford only one. This thing arises from Duality.
A tug of war which is endless riddle and it remains same until you dissolve in to Oneness. Our mind which keep processing thoughts makes things complicated more and more being a judgemental rather than being an observer. The Good and Bad, do you think other species do have such traits in their life?
🙏🙏🙏 6.57 pleasure is the movement of thought in time⭐
🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸🙏
He is hard to understand but i just like him
Jedi Krishnamurti
Joy cannot be experienced. Only pleasure can be. Joy is an inexperiencable state. It's no mind.
So when he says the joy of looking at the mountains, etc. It is really the pleasure your sensory organs get. And sensory organs function only due to memory. And memory means there is pleasure involved.
My interpretation is, joy can be experienced. Joy cannot be pursued, practiced or cultivated. Joy occurs and one immerses in it. best regards
Our default state is joy
Jk always had a real discussion not the trash debate between atheist, scientists and religious people of today with stadium alike audiences that clap and scream.JK speaks from source the others speak from thought reinforcing their cultivated identities.That is the reason of his being not so popular among massess.
Can the brain operate as our other main organs do ,without thought or prejudice?Simply doing what needs to be done for the love of the being.
Tube & Berger - Imprint of Pleasure
So you’ve found it too
I got my Goal
Your aware now or your not, no classes for awareness, no achieving awareness...ok what would he have said about all meditation apps today?
"in the past they used gurus to help them get something, to meditate, to reach a higher state. Now they use computers and smartphones. What a nonsense! " I think he would mock a little. He would state that you dont need someone guiding you to yourself. He would remember you that the act of practicing meditation would invalidate your meditation. True awareness comes with full acceptance of what is. Look at yourself, not accepting yourself and "training" yourself to be something else, with apps,with meditation, to be better, to be holy, is everything but true acceptance. There is no becoming with true awareness. To be aware is to see everything as it is, in the most neutral way. Either you truly accept the now moment, either you dont. Willing to practice this can easily set you back again to the "becoming" thought and thats where I'm right now lol.
Why do you have to pay to meditate?
People nowadays are using meditation to pursue pleasure and reduce the stress that comes from pleasure
Since the man is a rational animal, naturally he persue pleasure throughout his life since many years of his existence on this earth.
Not just man but every species that exist is rational, only the degree of brilliance differs. But the point here is why is it rational and by the way conditioned? And how to break the chain of conditioning..
@@VenkateswaranMahadevan it so cas its one of basic survival codes embed into body/mind/brain,and to break it u yust need to be still and silent and observe and see how it happens by letting it happen and then to see that it can happen without u being directly engaged in it and then to realize who is this who is not affected by everything what moves inside awearness or mind.
I am fortunate enough that I do Vipassana regularly and because of that though I don’t understand J Krishnamurti fully many times, at least I feel what he’s trying to convey.
Brother it is exactly Vipassana, He is Buddha in his own way. Clear discernment, Divide, Dissect, Disintegrate. He goes to the root of things.
I am listening to him from years on and off intially it was just verbal understanding like playing with thoughts, But I understand him more the more I meditate.
👍👍👍🇩🇪
How does one observe something with all the senses and nerves, etc.....wholly?
Pleasure is an illusion.
By Jove that is so true :D
i am stuck in this situation...pls some one help me...if brain dont store how it will act...if should not store then how can have any skill, pls some one help me
I think he said to be aware all the time,but it doesn't mean you should forcefully trying not to record. you should just be aware. storing up (knowledge)in mind is absolutely necessary to acquire any skill. he said to observe the pain& pleasure, daily living. this is what I have understood.
thank you for your question ❤😊
Only one problem, brain recording is not a voluntery action, i dont think we can stop it with our attention.
I've been listening to K for over 5 years now and perception of world and internal approach has changed. I want to create a collaborative online group to share, discuss and have focus sessions. Is there interest and/or does a group already exist?
I would really appreciate someone who can share their thoughts on below reasoning I came up to on the part of 'not registering in your mind' in this video, which to me is very daunting thing to hear and being a non-practitioner of feeling actual 'awareness', to me it looks totally impossible thing in the first place. Anyhow below is the reasoning (and it's keeping me from trying to practice the 'not registering in your mind' concept in first place).
When the we are looking at something with every nerve, with every sense fully awakened, to observe that incident, however pleasurable, however painful, then you will see there is no record. Reasoning -- At this instant of time wouldn't it be that our brain will be recording all these inputs from all our sense organs involved in sensing the event that is happening? If we say that 'No' brain will record anything from any of the sense organs in this special case then will it be the case that we essentially will feel our consciousness?
Utkarsh Kukreti brain can only record events when there’s a movement of the thought and if there’s a movement of the thought than you are not totally ATTENDING. how ever there should be absolutely no effort made for ATTENDING because that will be again the product of the thought.
You're right there go on and keep questioning "who's observing, who is having the please, who's feeling the pain" can even go a bit deeper with " what is observing and what is being observed " you see the gap the distance? If yes just observe the gap ,do nothing at all 👍
It doesnt really matter if its recording or not,once fully aware of yourself nothing else matters accept yourself or self.
He never showed us how to observe if he had then it would be like, cultivation, a method, again a mechanical thing, I guess when he says "truth is pathless land" he meant you have to find it out by yourself, not sure, I'm just guessing..
He showed please watch the videos on observation
…..and I say control your mind and you’ll know it all.
the la tzu rebirth we are seeing
In Nigeria they'll say he's on drugs or crazy. Society is crazy itself, cos they don't know that they don't know but have found security in their ignorance
I did not understand the core....
I'm completely! Attentive to his video intellectually , visually , hearing ...is this not gonna record it in my brain?
identification with a body
yeah but as always he dissect it deeper, identity is an idea therefore thought, so simple yet it's brilliant to be aware of it all the time
Imprint of pleasure anyone?
Anzetal First of all, why has man given such importance to pleasure?
Why, man, throughout the world has given this extraordinary importance to pleasure? Why? 🎶🎶🎶
Continuing, pursuing, everlasting pleasure.