Can you point to a single country outside the Hegemony of the west and call them a democracy? Even inside the west students are bieng arrested for criticising a seperate country from thier own. Hypocrisy is loud and clear for the rest of the world. Democracy is only a word used to legatimize a moral highground which does not exist in the current world.
The leadership in the Middle eastern Muslim countries are not a representative of the religion and are imposed on the Muslim people due to the west (America, Europe, and Russia) hegemony to keep looting its resources, keep the flow of oil pumping to their direction, control the vital trade routes that connect the world together, and to help assist the terrorist state of Israel to keep stealing the Muslim lands.
Yeah, islam is very compatible with democracy until the numbers of muslims are significant to change democracy into a theocracy, just like it's happening in the UK, Holland, France and Germany.
@D-E-S_8559 he's not.... khan especially ireland government are hella biased against native culture not only that persian lost their authority especially in Nigeria wants to split the state due to islamic value.... its the only one to not respect human self then an ideology.....
@D-E-S_8559 Pakistan and Bangladesh are carved out of India to form a Muslim state . This is not a statistical lie . Muslims wanted a Muslim nation so they got east and west Pakistan. And to speak of Democracy and Identity, West Pakistan attacked East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) for not giving up their bengali identity. Lol very progressive imo
He is clearly lying. Any muslim will agree that islam don't change with time. Its still same as it was 1400 years ago. Muslims always belived in dar-ul-harb, dar-ul-aman and dar-ul-islam. Their loyalty towards islam and khalifa isn't hidden from the world. They are ticking timebombs.
@@SanjithKappiarath let's speak about democracy in India, which I belive ur from... How elected governments are toppled by horse trading of Public representatives... Why Votes of public goes missing... ? How come 7% votes polled after election time is over..? Why so many communal hate speeches and attacks on Muslims, Christians in India..?
Lol.. Killed Lakhs of Muslims in Middle East... No comment on Extremist America Killed +44k Palestinians... No coment on Extremist Israel Killed Rohinyas Muslims on basis of lies... No comment on Extremist Buddhists of Myanmar Yet, have the audacity to comment on Muslims, who are victims... Lol
@@loveearthly What rubbish. He is still a Muslim. He is fighting for the idea of the religion of Islam not what some extremists have made the religion today
@RedDragon-yq7ro instead of shariya if they adopt the law of the land then and only then they will be compatible. Which will never happen because all of them are radicals
He got fired during covid and had no income stream really and then just ended up trying to make dollar with patreon and podcasting, don't think it worked very well, so don't know what he's been living on for the past 3 years.
Assuming he is still reasonable, I suspect he’s trying his best to resolve something we all know to be an irresolvable problem before it escalates. After all, what’s next for a public who are sick of Islam’s hostile encroachments and who live with many of its followers?
Well, why would any Muslim who thinks Islam supports democracy argue with a non-Muslim? You should be debating this with your radical brothers; it's an internal matter for you. Academic Islam, especially Western academic interpretations, and actual Islam are completely contrary. Maajid would be hacked to death in Iran and Bangladesh if he said Islam supports democracy.
The West likes to harp on about democracy. We don't live in a democracy, take your blinkers off. The rich at the top own our politicians. We know who owns Congress....AIPAC! Read a book by Scott Horton and get yourself a proper education! Hands off Iran and Bangladesh!
@@abramjeylani2462 am US/Asian/Arab, I judge from actions/outcome, do you know how many times peace was propose in the said video area before any death began? Do you know what was the root cause that made Gaza into what it has become today, if you count the present and not the whole timeline from the first act, know that your part of the problem and I have no sympathy to give.
@@LNB15522 the problem is that Islam can't die for anyone as its the true religion. You'll note know we are in end times. And islam is the contender on one side. It doesn't take even an idiot like you to realise that surely? Take sides now sensibly .
@@67Childintime Yes, coz that's pragmatic but British nowadays have started copying the Hindus. 💀 It's foolish to argue with the Muslims, they'll prepare for a civil war.
Wow he brings up Southport!!!!! The offender was in possession of a jihadi training manual, completely inspired by Islam. No argument. The community were justly angry and proven to be right.
1400 years 49 countries convertrd how many of the minorities are facing exile and attrocity even today - Kurds, Yazidi, Dharuks, Parsis, Jews, Kalash people, Hindus, Sikhs, etc.
The only way to prove that Islam is compatible with democracy is ti have this debate, with exactly the same points made in a Muslim majority country. Let’s see how many of the speakers would get out alive.
If you're making the argument that Islam is compatible with modern democracy, it just means your real religion is modern democracy. I'm not a Muslim, but why would you argue that the revelation of the Prophet is compatible with John Stuart Mill and Jeremy Bentham? Try to think a century into the future instead of just 30 years. Billions of dollars are being poured into AGI, Neuralink, and genetic engineering. The techno-optimist future of Star Trek is just propaganda. All serious religious people should be united in one struggle - a Butlerian Jihad. The Muslim world united together can serve as a refuge for people fleeing the impending transhumanist/posthumanist dystopia.
@@TechTeacher-vz1hu Hindus cause on average less problems in west than the natives. It is compatible because it's a spiritual tradition. Only place where it goes HC is in India where it starts to harden up against islam.
Really unfortunate to hear Maajid try to find a loophole in the proposition and run circles around the real world issue of Islam and democracy, especially with increased migration of Muslims in the west. Really unconvincing and irrelevant points by Maajid, used to follow him as a liberal reformist voice in Islam but clearly he’s walking a tightrope and not doing it well.
@@HashimAziz1Islam isn’t a race. And maybe you should look at your own biases, calling people kaffir, demanding they pay jizzya (extortion money), murdering them hideously. This happens world around and yet ‘we’ are the racists? All you can do is police our words when you ought to be looking INWARD
total nonsense. such n such words dont exist in original sources so no debate on whether the ideas those words carry are incompatible with Islam whether in original texts or in lives of millions today
It shows shallow thinking on his part. He failed to mention whether any synonyms exist, and even if they don't, concepts can still be extrapolated from contexts and narratives. If we can't analyse things structurally and transpose our understanding onto other structures that we're comparing against, then we're not qualified to take part in such discussions.
He’s not saying that, he’s making a point that Islam doesn’t concern political systems however the Arabic countries had government organisations running it. These were examples of democracies
I usually agree with maajid nawaz when he worked in the radio, but here I totally disagree, and his arguments wasn't solid enough, he doesn't say nothing at all.... By definition islam is a sect, and a sect is never democratic. As simple as that.
10:47 Islam is defined. Democracy is defined. There is no need of pre-definition or interpretation expected. The prejudice is coming from experience, from the recorded text in history.
"We have to be very careful about having this conversation because having this conversation has consequences." Freedom of speech is the cornerstone of democracy and freedom. Islam hates freedom of speech. Bro is giving so much bullshit he forgets to make arguments.
@kklh7918 it actually does though. If you thought about it for 2 seconds you would realize that you need to be informed in order to self govern. Its more important than voting. Voting has very little effect on democracies on its own. The court of public opinion very often influences the actions of the government.
@ either you live in America or something but to claim that free speech is. Necessary for democracy is asinine. There is one country in the world with free speech and that’s America, plenty of countries that are democracies and don’t have it
@@kklh7918 these countries are considered totalitarian authoritative governments with performative elections for the most part if you're talking about the countries im thinking of.
@ no I and generally referring to history not necessarily contemporary times. Look I’m not stupid, I know Islam as a doctrine has many things incompatible with western society like homosexuality (especially marriage) but my point is that yes Maajid is right, democracy is compatible with Islam. It is difficult and tough. Are Muslims today in the UK compatible with democracy, I would think there is a growing attitude of no. That being said, I don’t think liberals today are compatible with democracy, I don’t think the media is compatible with democracy, I don’t think our politicians are compatible with democracy. So to say Islam isn’t I think is ideologically bias
I'm a big fan of Maajid, but I find his approach to be intellectually dishonest. His position is that you cannot say Islam is incompatible with Democracy without first surveying the defining features of Islam without prejudice to modernity or history, but rather in the abstract. Then he concludes that Islam in these contexts conveys a negative perspective and that therefore if you hold the motion you are displaying your own prejudices to Islam that ought to be routed in advance. You cannot observe Islam in a vacuum. Islam is not only the collective writings of the prophet and all the rest, but also its history of conquest, it's brutality, its exclusivity (as another speaker pointed out) and in this context it is unquestionably incompatible with Islam. I support Maajid in his quest to reform Islam into a state that's compatible with Democracy and democratic values, but that quest is far from over indeed its just beginning.
Islamic history is probably the least brutal when compared to other Religions, ESPECIALLY Christianity. Ironically you're being intellectually dishonest.
He used to believe in an Islamic 'reformation' like Christianity had, whereby the Quran wasn't taken literally. When the Uyghurs were getting abused in China, he seemed to really lose the plot, and hasn't got it back
@anshuecon i don't know at all, but there is a western style democratic system that has nothing to do with Islam or muslims. I think you should put your blame on president illham instead. I gave the list just to please the guy who thinks that building a state on the dead bodies of millions of natives is a eutopia.
4:30. Maajid is incorrect. The st*bber of those girls in Southport had an Al Qaeda training manual amongst other such things. So he was studying Islamist extremism and that's the best reasoning we have at the moment to give reason as to why he did what he did. So already this speaker is proven as misinformed, therefore i wont listen to anything the fool has to say. Don't be misinformed, don't ignore information for any reason if you are going to speak on the subject, someone should've corrected this guy at this point.
By definition a theocracy guided by sharia is not democratic. Though we should let the man promote the ideal among muslims that democracy is compatible with their religion. Never stifle people encouraging democracy, even among the religious.
@8:30 If we agree that separation of Church and State is good, and liberal democracy is good, can we agree that Islam as taught by Muhammad is no longer compatible with the systems today, and certainly with the geographies outside the Arabian peninsula?
We don't live with an essence of Islam, in the UK we live with people who interpret Islam and act accordingly. Discussing anything else but these people and their views of the world and their actions is pointless
He is clearly lying. Any muslim will agree that islam don't change with time. Its still same as it was 1400 years ago. Muslims always belived in dar-ul-harb, dar-ul-aman and dar-ul-islam. Their loyalty towards islam and khalifa isn't hidden from the world. They are ticking timebombs.
In essence no but in today’s lived form it mostly is and therefore posts a threat to liberal humanitarian principles of modern democracy. So yeah no problem with any religion but only if it conforms to the believe of the equality of respect, opportunity and rights deserved by every human being.
🎯 Key points for quick navigation: 00:00 *🗣️ Argument Against the Motion* - Opponents concede the debate motion. - Emphasis on debating the essence of Islam, not its modern interpretations. - Clarifies the motion targets Islam in its essence, not political or extremist versions. 03:05 *⚖️ Impact of Misconceptions on Society* - Highlights communal riots in the UK following wrongful blame on Muslims. - Describes attacks on mosques and asylum hotels as consequences of prejudice. - Warns about the historical outcomes of denying Islam's place in society. 05:26 *📚 Analyzing Islamic Texts and Governance* - Examines absence of terms like "state" and "constitution" in Islamic sources. - Critiques the retroactive application of Western political concepts to Islam. - Discusses failed attempts to synchronize Islam with modern law in history. 08:56 *🌍 Call for Unity and Future Building* - Argues the motion is based on hidden prejudice against Islam. - Encourages building future systems based on collective consciousness. - Advocates for peace, reconciliation, and unity between Muslims and others in Europe. Made with HARPA AI
This person is a better debater. He re-clarified the motion and articulated the mistakes by the otherside-their failure to address the broadness of the prompt, and many of other speakers resulted to strawman arguments which is very weak.
Being an ex terrorist who returned as a changed man Maajid Nawaz was less aggressive and more reasonable back then ! What happened to him ? This is crazy
I’ve got an entire BOOK on the topic of British Islam and English law and yet Maajid decided to spend almost 1/4 of his comparatively short speech talking about the Southport murder?? Please. The way Islam will be reformed is when there’s pressure put on the Muslim community to stop being intolerant to its apostates, after which a dissenter can ease the jump to apostasy by saying they’re a proud Cultural Muslim (like there are cultural Hindus, Cultural Jews), one who doesn’t believe theistically but still honours and partakes in the values and traditions
The comparison between Monarchy and Democracy highlights fundamental differences in governance and power distribution. Here’s a concise overview: Key Differences Definition: Monarchy: A form of government where a single person, the monarch, rules, often for life and usually through hereditary succession. Democracy: A system where the government is elected by the people, allowing citizens to choose their representatives and influence legislation. Power Source: Monarchy: Power is typically inherited and concentrated in the hands of the monarch. Democracy: Power derives from the consent of the governed, with leaders chosen through elections. Decision-Making: Monarchy: Decisions are made by the monarch, which can lead to swift action but may lack public input. Democracy: Decisions are made through elected representatives, promoting accountability and public participation. Stability vs. Representation: Monarchy: Can provide stability and continuity, but may lack responsiveness to the people's needs. Democracy: Prioritizes representation and accountability, but can sometimes lead to slower decision-making processes. Conclusion While monarchies may offer stability and efficient decision-making, democracies emphasize representation, accountability, and the protection of individual rights. Each system has its strengths and weaknesses, influencing how societies are governed. Monarchy is usually caution and single out with religion in its weakness. Democracy is a hard case its single out and caution with its critics who are hard to find.
No religion aligns with democracy. The notion that Christianity = democracy just ignores basic history. Personal freedoms came primarily due to 1) separation from the church and 2) technological progress. I know people will throw a fit, but unfortunately for your ideology, Islam has the same potential. And lets not forget it was the Polytheists who gave us the foundations of democracy, philosophy and science we live and know today.
Separation of church and state is not separation of religion and state. There is no separation of mosque and state. Separation of church and state means the state would neither be Catholic or Protestant.
@@post_eternity "separation of church and state is not separation of religion and state." the concept of separation of church and state doesn't only mean the building... or just the Catholic church, it is an all encompassing philosophical and jurisprudential ideology that defines political distance between religious organizations and the state, meaning what a Church would be defined as in the broadest of terms. As the worldly incarnation of the religion, aka the word of God, the Church - any organization of religious believers - is also its political agent, so yes, the separation of Church and State IS the separation of religion and State, bc you are removing any direct political power and legality from religion, and you are reducing its scope to potentially influencing personal preferences, manifested trough individual voting rights (talking about modern democracies). "There is no separation of mosque and state." - yes there is Turkey, Albania, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, BiH, every Muslim majority country in the Russian federation. "separation of church and state means the state would neither be Catholic or Protestant." it wouldn't be religious to begin with, it has nothing to do with denominations. This is the issue with discourse in general today, you can write something like that which sounds powerful and righteous, but in its essence is misinterpreted and wrong, and then I have to write all of this just as rebuttal. Not to mention, that for some reason in your world Islam is a monoblock, while Christianity is multipotential, something that also speaks volumes.
Talk more bullsht Equality and Human rights derive from the Bible, and throughout time any other religions made toxic hierarchy The notion of value in each human lives was developed in the English Anglican, and built on foundations of America Islam is the worsts of creating a competitive society due to its poor authoritarian tyranny
@7ank3d No they don't! anyone with basic knowledge of History and philosophy can tell you that, your insults imply you feel called out and are triggered bc you suspect what I wrote is true. for example Thomas Aquinas was heavily influenced by a) Aristotle b) Roman Ius Naturale c) Ibn Sina, so a pagan philosopher, a pagan legal system and a Muslim mystic. Please stop listening to Jordan Peterson and the likes and start reading actual books. Christianity is not an island or glimmer of light, its just a religion.
@@AriSuper0001 The called out person is you. Please read books other than your propaganda. Democracy and equality were central to political thought in Ancient Greece. Thus the development through time up until today, specifically best portrayed in Western societym Human rights bases on inherent value, thus the biblical foundation on Christianity. You should help yourself with Jordan Peterson because you need him for your narrow capacity.
When the chief constable announced this manual, she failed to disclose that this book was written by an American psychiatrist, Jerrold Post, who worked as an analyst for the CIA. She also failed to mention that it was a legal publication available widely online including at American Universities and also sold by Waterstones, Blackwells and eBay at the time of her press conference.
@@Sahedul1unless you committed a crusader act. I think the most accurate report is that he was quite possibly inspired by an Al Queda manual in his possession. Of course, all it takes to become a Muslim is saying a few lines, but until that’s confirmed you can’t say he was
The previous speakers spoke of actual events and beliefs, Nawaz just lied, we are all aware he has now been charged under the terrorism act when they found biological toxin and an al Qaeda training manual in his house ... try debating around the truth!
Democracy places sovereignty in the hands of a group of people. Islam places sovereignty only in the essence of our Creator. We are not the same. People like Majid embody the saying “one man, two masters”. Or, as we Brits say, “one man, two guvnors”.
I wonder who started WW1, WW2.. The biggest wars committed in the world were by Christians and atheists. The fact that you even wrote that shows your ignorance. Go educate yourself a little bit.
I wonder who started WW1, WW2… The biggest wars in the world were committed by chr!stains and athe!sts. Next time go educate yourself. And in conclusion, yes Islam is the most peaceful religion on earth.
Maajid is a very good rhetoricain and could probably argue that Naziism is compatible with democracy - theoretically. The better question is why Muslims in the Middle East and much of the world where Islam is dominant, are not democratic, and what would it take to make them so? The way the Jews and Christians solved the problem was through secularism, by dividing church and state, such as in Indonesia and the few other majority Muslim states which have some level of democracy. So, given these examples exist, then clearly Islam CAN be compatible with democracy. The US, arrogantly attempted to create democratic institutions in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places in the Muslim world without much success. The reason is that you can't simply hold elections and create a democracy. For example, Gazans had democracy WITHOUT a republican structure for about as long as it took the voting to determine a victor. Once elected, Hamas never held another election because THEY are not a democratic organization AND because they had no interest in building the secular institutions a democratic republic requires. Maajid's attempt to distinguish between islamISM and Muslim is BULLSHIT and is not relevant to the proposition because he fails to mention that what must be made distinct from Islam is not merely its interpretation, but its place in the state. Interpretation of the Qu'ran or Islam is an ongoing issue that will never be definitively settled, so claiming IslamISM is the problem is question begging. The Muslims MUST be willing to allow secularism and to place religion in a position where it does not have power over the state institutions. The fact is, neither Judaism nor Christianity would be compatible with democracy IF the state lacked the proper institutions that first enable "rule of law" (which is not merely a set of judicial institutions, but ones where secular law is applied to everyone equally. If they were to implement Sharia as the grounds for their law, then the institutions that grow out from the judicial system would not function as secular, and therefore, democratic representation could not occur because it is possible that an elected official would point out that Sharia law is not secular law and so does not allow for citizens to opt out of religion. Not the Qu'ran, but the Haddith, as I understand it, is where Islam claims that apostates should be killed. In the case of Palestine and Hamas, the Gazans apparently wanted revenge on Israel more than they wanted a functioning government and society. This is what democracy, without other institutions necessary to a modern state, can get you. So, again, how does a society build the institutions necessary for a democratic republic? In the West, the Renaissance and the Enlightment paved the way. But where do these intellectual movements ome from? They evolved organically, especially after protestantism, in its long power battles with the state (monarchies), somehow evolved toward this form of government. Islam has lacked a similar protestant reformation that profoundly impacted its institutions thus paving the way for the kind of societies and governments we have in the West. The US was the only democracy of its kind at the time of its inception. Others learned from it, and Muslim countries could too, but the people would have to want this and the trajectory now does not seem to favor it. Islam is trying to assert itself in the West as well as in its native places, but things can change quickly, like a fire, with the right conditions. So we shall see. If anyone of what I've said is later brought up by Maajid, then I yield to him. I got about 9 minutes in before becoming bored with his sophistry and decided to comment on what I'd heard so far.
He can say whatever he wants. Even if the word democratic or to say 'fair selected government " it just doesnt exist in islamic countries. Not 1. Its all monarchy or dictatorial regimes.
@ozhoneybadger Statate represented is elected by the people ...he ll work for the people If India and Europe become fundamentalist like most of the islamic country what will be fate of minority
I have a question if both parties agreed on democracy then is there any example of a country in the world which is following democracy without any flaw?
Students clapping in Oxford? How long have they been practicing? Surprised me fair play keep it up and soon you'll be on the same planet as the rest of us grown ups
....This is not true. One verse in Quran in around 612 AD when the democracy was unknown to whole world declared that o you ppl, decide matter of your public affairs by mutual consultation. 42:38 "amruhum shura baynahum". Magna Carta will come in 12century. we are talking 600 years before that when Kings used to be God like figure. Quran is clearly saying to decide your public affairs with mutual consultation. The next verse then clears that is for authorities of the community. the same principle was followed by prophet Muhammad throughout his life, every major decision for the community he used to have the consultation and will see where majority is inclined to. So much so that the first 3 Khalifa (Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman) all were democratically elected (as per the possible voting procedure of those times) Khalifa and anyone could question them about their conduct, that's why they were called Khalifa Rashidun. In later years Muslim could not develop a parliament type shoora and election procedure and the kingdom came back in Muslim empires, but the judiciary was separated in early years itself. You should dig deeper in Quran's clear stand on democracy and the election of first 3 Khalifa in Muslim history.
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That's why so many Muslim countries are such inspiring democracies.
Can you point to a single country outside the Hegemony of the west and call them a democracy? Even inside the west students are bieng arrested for criticising a seperate country from thier own. Hypocrisy is loud and clear for the rest of the world. Democracy is only a word used to legatimize a moral highground which does not exist in the current world.
Some daft religion of peace duds may actually like this comment. Lol
The leadership in the Middle eastern Muslim countries are not a representative of the religion and are imposed on the Muslim people due to the west (America, Europe, and Russia) hegemony to keep looting its resources, keep the flow of oil pumping to their direction, control the vital trade routes that connect the world together, and to help assist the terrorist state of Israel to keep stealing the Muslim lands.
@@gkbhai8962 and what about the so called Western democracies. What a laugh. The West is going down under. There is now a new world order.
well there are plenty and then there are plenty that had a lot of interference where they are no longer a democracy on purpose.
Yeah, islam is very compatible with democracy until the numbers of muslims are significant to change democracy into a theocracy, just like it's happening in the UK, Holland, France and Germany.
Assuming we ignore your statistical lies on demographics-what are you going to do about it...??!
@D-E-S_8559 he's not.... khan especially ireland government are hella biased against native culture not only that persian lost their authority especially in Nigeria wants to split the state due to islamic value.... its the only one to not respect human self then an ideology.....
@D-E-S_8559 Pakistan and Bangladesh are carved out of India to form a Muslim state . This is not a statistical lie .
Muslims wanted a Muslim nation so they got east and west Pakistan.
And to speak of Democracy and Identity, West Pakistan attacked East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) for not giving up their bengali identity. Lol very progressive imo
@abhijeetchavhan37 I don't recall the same British even dividing the same nation at the height of their colonial rule-do you!!?
He is clearly lying.
Any muslim will agree that islam don't change with time. Its still same as it was 1400 years ago.
Muslims always belived in dar-ul-harb, dar-ul-aman and dar-ul-islam.
Their loyalty towards islam and khalifa isn't hidden from the world. They are ticking timebombs.
Out of 57 muslim countries in the world... How many are Democratic?
Indonesia? Malaysia? Central Asian countries?
@BilalKhan-cq6mn can u name one c asian country with democracy?
Well In India.... Elected governments are toppled by horse trading of Public representatives..? Why don't u be concerned about own..?
First educate yourself and know the differences between the Muslim majority country and muslim country.
@@SanjithKappiarath let's speak about democracy in India, which I belive ur from...
How elected governments are toppled by horse trading of Public representatives...
Why Votes of public goes missing... ?
How come 7% votes polled after election time is over..?
Why so many communal hate speeches and attacks on Muslims, Christians in India..?
Radical Islam is a snake hiding in the grass
Moderate Islam is the grass...
That's a really nice analogy
Utter nonsense. We all know who bankrolled OBL to fight the Soviets.
Exept the grass is doing it all on purpose.
Lol..
Killed Lakhs of Muslims in Middle East... No comment on Extremist America
Killed +44k Palestinians... No coment on Extremist Israel
Killed Rohinyas Muslims on basis of lies... No comment on Extremist Buddhists of Myanmar
Yet, have the audacity to comment on Muslims, who are victims... Lol
@@Progress_Not_Perfection same hate comment on evry videos.... So Joblessness..!!!!
Longer the beard, deeper the radicalism
learn islam.
@honeybee7e what the heck is learn about the satanic hedonic cult from the barbarian times of Arabia?
@@honeybee7eNo Thanks ..
@@amitdangwal3041 As your wish !
well by your logic Hindu Pandits and Gurus must be the top radicals.
An ex-Terrorist who set out to free Islam from the Mullahs, appears one step away from returning to the Brotherhood.
@@loveearthly What rubbish. He is still a Muslim. He is fighting for the idea of the religion of Islam not what some extremists have made the religion today
Yeh did a 180, or was doing taqiya the whole time as former radical turned adviser
I'm starting to think Maajid was replaced by his radicalized twin brother. It's bewildering and heartbreaking what he has turned into.
Oh simply because he ceased to be pro right wing narrative he now became an Islamist! So ironic.
Yes very much so..
It's the religion first not the constitution, as there is no vote in islam
Is there the concept of democracy in Hinduism or Christianity???
@@honeybee7eyes it is book of politics, it is a constitution in itself it has all laws for everything and rights for men and women.
@alinaqirizvi1441No , but they are compatible because they has adapted.
@RedDragon-yq7ro instead of shariya if they adopt the law of the land then and only then they will be compatible. Which will never happen because all of them are radicals
@alinaqirizvi1441 yes, please refer Rig Veda
4:30 what a liar. The killer turned out to be Muslim and an Al Qaeda supporter.
An al queda training manual was found in his possession, but what makes you say he was confirmed as a Muslim?
@@EmperorsNewWardrobe Christians, generally, don’t own al quaeda training manuals or make ricin in their bedrooms.
What? No he wasn't? Unless I'm mistaken, he was a Christian from a Christian family.
@EmperorsNewWardrobe 🤣🤣🤣 hilarious, yeah, why think that makes him muslim🤣
@CoffeePaladin No, he wasn't Christian new evidence shows him trying to make chemical weapons and he had an al queda handbook
What happened to maajid man. I thought he was one of the reasonable ones. Didn't even realize it was him. He looks different.
He got fired during covid and had no income stream really and then just ended up trying to make dollar with patreon and podcasting, don't think it worked very well, so don't know what he's been living on for the past 3 years.
@@0xEdwoods Jizya payments.
Assuming he is still reasonable, I suspect he’s trying his best to resolve something we all know to be an irresolvable problem before it escalates. After all, what’s next for a public who are sick of Islam’s hostile encroachments and who live with many of its followers?
@@EmperorsNewWardrobe Even the Muslims rejected him when he worked for the Quillium foundation. Does he still work for them?
he has aged badly 😢
Well, why would any Muslim who thinks Islam supports democracy argue with a non-Muslim? You should be debating this with your radical brothers; it's an internal matter for you. Academic Islam, especially Western academic interpretations, and actual Islam are completely contrary. Maajid would be hacked to death in Iran and Bangladesh if he said Islam supports democracy.
The West likes to harp on about democracy. We don't live in a democracy, take your blinkers off. The rich at the top own our politicians. We know who owns Congress....AIPAC! Read a book by Scott Horton and get yourself a proper education! Hands off Iran and Bangladesh!
They look civilized to get the keys, after you let them in is when they show there colors
That sounds colonialism. Are you sure you didn’t mean to say this
@@abramjeylani2462 am US/Asian/Arab, I judge from actions/outcome, do you know how many times peace was propose in the said video area before any death began? Do you know what was the root cause that made Gaza into what it has become today, if you count the present and not the whole timeline from the first act, know that your part of the problem and I have no sympathy to give.
That's literally British colonialism you are speaking of
Yes Islam and British colonialism are brothers@@goodoldfashioned
@@KungMikami 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Without lies Islam dies..!
@@LNB15522 Actually No!
Cause you are brainwashed
You blind apparently... That's in your dreams only 🤷
I never get why the West or the white man fears islam so much! One debate like this and just read the racist comments below.
Without lies, you die... That's why, you are resorting to LIES
@@LNB15522 the problem is that Islam can't die for anyone as its the true religion. You'll note know we are in end times. And islam is the contender on one side. It doesn't take even an idiot like you to realise that surely? Take sides now sensibly .
" While the Hindu elaborates his argument, the Moslem sharpens his sword." - Winston Churchill
Thanks to WhatsApp university in India. I have read many fake news on Muslims..!
And the context was that Churchill preferred the Moslem approach.
@@67Childintime Yes, coz that's pragmatic but British nowadays have started copying the Hindus. 💀
It's foolish to argue with the Muslims, they'll prepare for a civil war.
@@67Childintime exactly 💯. But unfortunately modern British are behaving like the Hindus only. 💀
refrence?
Wow he brings up Southport!!!!!
The offender was in possession of a jihadi training manual, completely inspired by Islam. No argument.
The community were justly angry and proven to be right.
*"Accusing Israel of committing genocide is like accusing a rape victim of committing rape!"*
This is the best analogy I have ever seen.
Most ridiculous comment I've heard
@@moboga215 cause you a cry baby pro palestinin
😢
Is it is well documented that those who have been abused CAN (not will) go onto abuse others so your comment is unfactual.
1400 years 49 countries convertrd how many of the minorities are facing exile and attrocity even today - Kurds, Yazidi, Dharuks, Parsis, Jews, Kalash people, Hindus, Sikhs, etc.
Converted 😂 Many people like my family accepted Islam. It just makes sense. Read the source, not what your media tells you!
@samna789 😂 most hilarious lines of the day, at same time insensitive to all dead because of terror perpetuated by the so called religious book.
If islam was compatible then they wouldn't need to keep demanding special treatment, adaptations, or law changes to suit them.
Arabs and democracy!!!! You must be joking 😂😂😂😂
Incompatible 100%
The only way to prove that Islam is compatible with democracy is ti have this debate, with exactly the same points made in a Muslim majority country. Let’s see how many of the speakers would get out alive.
They would not get out alive……
😂😂😂
*"Peace will come when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us."*
-- Israeli PM Golda Meir, 1957
Peace will come when the European colonialists move out
@@moboga215who are the European colonialists? When will the arab colonizers move out of Egypt and Morocco?
Peace will come when Israel stops its supremacist ways and actually acts like a humane entity
@@moboga215❤❤❤❤
Golda Meir! the one who literrally settled on others land.
*"Women defending Izlam is like Chickens defending KFC!"*
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The real KFC chickens are the promiscuous women, not the modest one
Majority of reverts to islam are women
😂😂😂😂😅
@@akashchaubey5746 majority of reverts to islam are women
play of words, a faith which does not provide equal treatment of wives with husbands has nothing to do with liberal democratic values.
This masjid guy has completely changed
He is trying to infiltrate reform another terrorist snake he is
I remember him doing a similar debate a decade ago i think he got scared or uncomfortable after calling out Islam
he looks more religious
Translation = He has a beard
If you're making the argument that Islam is compatible with modern democracy, it just means your real religion is modern democracy. I'm not a Muslim, but why would you argue that the revelation of the Prophet is compatible with John Stuart Mill and Jeremy Bentham? Try to think a century into the future instead of just 30 years. Billions of dollars are being poured into AGI, Neuralink, and genetic engineering. The techno-optimist future of Star Trek is just propaganda. All serious religious people should be united in one struggle - a Butlerian Jihad. The Muslim world united together can serve as a refuge for people fleeing the impending transhumanist/posthumanist dystopia.
The beard is part of nature & the practise of ALL the BLESSED PROPHETS (A.S.)
He is and has apologised for being a traitor
He's a plant
Southport killer had al-Qaeda training manual… but Maajid points out he’s a British born Rwandan and has nothing to do with Islam … yes right 😂
Correction, islam is incompatible to this century 😹
Yah I can see how much Hinduism is 😅😅
@@TechTeacher-vz1hu Hindus cause on average less problems in west than the natives. It is compatible because it's a spiritual tradition. Only place where it goes HC is in India where it starts to harden up against islam.
But the attacker was muslim
@@kptfefe1 You guys have no idea about philosophy about Islam.and you don't know the definition of Muslim.
Spreading hatred! Wow
Oxford should have invited ex muslims.
The ex Muslims would need security
Really unfortunate to hear Maajid try to find a loophole in the proposition and run circles around the real world issue of Islam and democracy, especially with increased migration of Muslims in the west. Really unconvincing and irrelevant points by Maajid, used to follow him as a liberal reformist voice in Islam but clearly he’s walking a tightrope and not doing it well.
Lmao "My favourite token Muslim no longer validates my racism wah wah".
@@HashimAziz1 Oh, Islam/Muslim is a race? Thats news to me..
This guy wasn't an ex muslim?
@@HashimAziz1Islam isn’t a race. And maybe you should look at your own biases, calling people kaffir, demanding they pay jizzya (extortion money), murdering them hideously. This happens world around and yet ‘we’ are the racists? All you can do is police our words when you ought to be looking INWARD
@@nicolasbascunan4013 He was an ex terrorist. He fights radical Islam. But he still was and is a Muslim
If we make the mistake of applying Western political concepts to the Quran, aren't they conceding that Islam is imperfect?
Bigger beard = more radicalised
Bad comment = small pen**
Yh. Musicians and everyone with beards in USA or Europe.
ZZ Top are terrorists. 😁
YES greek jokes greek philo small BLACK big brain guy big pen**
@@afolabifaruq9606it is a proclamation of faith , maajid goes from one extreme to the other
total nonsense. such n such words dont exist in original sources so no debate on whether the ideas those words carry are incompatible with Islam whether in original texts or in lives of millions today
It shows shallow thinking on his part. He failed to mention whether any synonyms exist, and even if they don't, concepts can still be extrapolated from contexts and narratives. If we can't analyse things structurally and transpose our understanding onto other structures that we're comparing against, then we're not qualified to take part in such discussions.
He’s not saying that, he’s making a point that Islam doesn’t concern political systems however the Arabic countries had government organisations running it. These were examples of democracies
He literally avoided everything posed by the opposition. Just shouted its incorrect without providing any evidence against the opposition.
I usually agree with maajid nawaz when he worked in the radio, but here I totally disagree, and his arguments wasn't solid enough, he doesn't say nothing at all....
By definition islam is a sect, and a sect is never democratic. As simple as that.
Islam is not a sect, it is a CULT.
Justice for 6 Year old Ayesha.
👇
What on earth has happened to him?
Cuckoo 😅see also videos by south London rapper MIA
This was a blast from the past. Forgot he existed.
10:47
Islam is defined.
Democracy is defined.
There is no need of pre-definition or interpretation expected. The prejudice is coming from experience, from the recorded text in history.
"We have to be very careful about having this conversation because having this conversation has consequences."
Freedom of speech is the cornerstone of democracy and freedom. Islam hates freedom of speech.
Bro is giving so much bullshit he forgets to make arguments.
Democracy doesn’t imply freedom of speech
@kklh7918 it actually does though. If you thought about it for 2 seconds you would realize that you need to be informed in order to self govern. Its more important than voting. Voting has very little effect on democracies on its own. The court of public opinion very often influences the actions of the government.
@ either you live in America or something but to claim that free speech is. Necessary for democracy is asinine. There is one country in the world with free speech and that’s America, plenty of countries that are democracies and don’t have it
@@kklh7918 these countries are considered totalitarian authoritative governments with performative elections for the most part if you're talking about the countries im thinking of.
@ no I and generally referring to history not necessarily contemporary times.
Look I’m not stupid, I know Islam as a doctrine has many things incompatible with western society like homosexuality (especially marriage) but my point is that yes Maajid is right, democracy is compatible with Islam. It is difficult and tough.
Are Muslims today in the UK compatible with democracy, I would think there is a growing attitude of no. That being said, I don’t think liberals today are compatible with democracy, I don’t think the media is compatible with democracy, I don’t think our politicians are compatible with democracy. So to say Islam isn’t I think is ideologically bias
Poor argument
A shame to see that maajid has turned back to his radical side, or maybe he never really turned away from it 🤷🏼♂️
Europeans. Spare yourself. DONT FALL FOR THIS BS.
At 6:00, So the speaker warns of consequence of having such debate and discussion. This is a direct threat to democracy and UK
*"Maturity is when you realize the whole world is unstable because of the Evil Cult of Izlam!"*
Pajeet living in his Hindutva fantasy world. Learn some basic history and politics bruh
I'm a big fan of Maajid, but I find his approach to be intellectually dishonest. His position is that you cannot say Islam is incompatible with Democracy without first surveying the defining features of Islam without prejudice to modernity or history, but rather in the abstract. Then he concludes that Islam in these contexts conveys a negative perspective and that therefore if you hold the motion you are displaying your own prejudices to Islam that ought to be routed in advance. You cannot observe Islam in a vacuum. Islam is not only the collective writings of the prophet and all the rest, but also its history of conquest, it's brutality, its exclusivity (as another speaker pointed out) and in this context it is unquestionably incompatible with Islam. I support Maajid in his quest to reform Islam into a state that's compatible with Democracy and democratic values, but that quest is far from over indeed its just beginning.
Islamic history is probably the least brutal when compared to other Religions, ESPECIALLY Christianity. Ironically you're being intellectually dishonest.
He used to believe in an Islamic 'reformation' like Christianity had, whereby the Quran wasn't taken literally. When the Uyghurs were getting abused in China, he seemed to really lose the plot, and hasn't got it back
@@HS-xt2suThankfully the debate is about the present day.
@@HS-xt2suthe difference is what is Christianity’s equivalent of Sharia? And was Jesus as the perfect man peaceful or violent?
Show me an Islamic state that is also a democracy 😂
🇮🇷 Iran has a """democracy"""
Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, Tunisia, Algeria, Pakistan, Iran, Azerbaijan.
@@FidaHussain-v1e8o are you 4 real? None of those is a real working democracy.
@@FidaHussain-v1e8o Azerbaijan? How does a democracy have the same guy in power for 21 years?
@anshuecon i don't know at all, but there is a western style democratic system that has nothing to do with Islam or muslims.
I think you should put your blame on president illham instead.
I gave the list just to please the guy who thinks that building a state on the dead bodies of millions of natives is a eutopia.
Much as I tried to understand his points, I was bewildered, bamboozled and flummoxed by his bafflegab. Like WTF did he just say ?
If you can’t convince them, confuse them! These people lie as they breathe!
4:30. Maajid is incorrect. The st*bber of those girls in Southport had an Al Qaeda training manual amongst other such things. So he was studying Islamist extremism and that's the best reasoning we have at the moment to give reason as to why he did what he did. So already this speaker is proven as misinformed, therefore i wont listen to anything the fool has to say. Don't be misinformed, don't ignore information for any reason if you are going to speak on the subject, someone should've corrected this guy at this point.
If you have to debate if it’s a religion of peace then it’s not peaceful
By definition a theocracy guided by sharia is not democratic. Though we should let the man promote the ideal among muslims that democracy is compatible with their religion. Never stifle people encouraging democracy, even among the religious.
Islam is so much compatible with democracy that this debate could very well be happening in Saudi Arabia, Iran or Syria 😂😂😂
I totally agree with him. Why should we tolerate a intolerant religion.
Last time i saw his interview, he had mustache no beard
In its essence. Tough to implement the essence when followers are not convinced the same.
@8:30 If we agree that separation of Church and State is good, and liberal democracy is good, can we agree that Islam as taught by Muhammad is no longer compatible with the systems today, and certainly with the geographies outside the Arabian peninsula?
We don't live with an essence of Islam, in the UK we live with people who interpret Islam and act accordingly. Discussing anything else but these people and their views of the world and their actions is pointless
As usual, eloquent and to the point. Well said!
He is clearly lying.
Any muslim will agree that islam don't change with time. Its still same as it was 1400 years ago.
Muslims always belived in dar-ul-harb, dar-ul-aman and dar-ul-islam.
Their loyalty towards islam and khalifa isn't hidden from the world. They are ticking timebombs.
Eloquent and empty
Here's a question for all Muslims everywhere: why did you copy the whole of your religion from the Jews when God doesn't even exist?
The man lives in La La Land
Man lives is terror land
In essence no but in today’s lived form it mostly is and therefore posts a threat to liberal humanitarian principles of modern democracy. So yeah no problem with any religion but only if it conforms to the believe of the equality of respect, opportunity and rights deserved by every human being.
The Chinese solution.
🎯 Key points for quick navigation:
00:00 *🗣️ Argument Against the Motion*
- Opponents concede the debate motion.
- Emphasis on debating the essence of Islam, not its modern interpretations.
- Clarifies the motion targets Islam in its essence, not political or extremist versions.
03:05 *⚖️ Impact of Misconceptions on Society*
- Highlights communal riots in the UK following wrongful blame on Muslims.
- Describes attacks on mosques and asylum hotels as consequences of prejudice.
- Warns about the historical outcomes of denying Islam's place in society.
05:26 *📚 Analyzing Islamic Texts and Governance*
- Examines absence of terms like "state" and "constitution" in Islamic sources.
- Critiques the retroactive application of Western political concepts to Islam.
- Discusses failed attempts to synchronize Islam with modern law in history.
08:56 *🌍 Call for Unity and Future Building*
- Argues the motion is based on hidden prejudice against Islam.
- Encourages building future systems based on collective consciousness.
- Advocates for peace, reconciliation, and unity between Muslims and others in Europe.
Made with HARPA AI
😂 islam is not compatable with democracy
This person is a better debater. He re-clarified the motion and articulated the mistakes by the otherside-their failure to address the broadness of the prompt, and many of other speakers resulted to strawman arguments which is very weak.
*They should have debate in Middle East*
where is the video of Mossab's?
Most Muslims majority countries have thriving democracies
So much taqyia practiced here
Being an ex terrorist who returned as a changed man Maajid Nawaz was less aggressive and more reasonable back then !
What happened to him ? This is crazy
I’ve got an entire BOOK on the topic of British Islam and English law and yet Maajid decided to spend almost 1/4 of his comparatively short speech talking about the Southport murder?? Please. The way Islam will be reformed is when there’s pressure put on the Muslim community to stop being intolerant to its apostates, after which a dissenter can ease the jump to apostasy by saying they’re a proud Cultural Muslim (like there are cultural Hindus, Cultural Jews), one who doesn’t believe theistically but still honours and partakes in the values and traditions
Full of crap😂
This guy wasn't an ex muslim?
@nicolasbascunan4013 I know but he could go on and on sometimes. Like he has not got a STOP BUTTON. 😆
wow this is the teaching of your religion or your parents
@honeybee7e both 😆
@@SAMMYMASIH-m7l Then you are brainwashed by your own parents! What a misery!
The comparison between Monarchy and Democracy highlights fundamental differences in governance and power distribution. Here’s a concise overview:
Key Differences
Definition:
Monarchy: A form of government where a single person, the monarch, rules, often for life and usually through hereditary succession.
Democracy: A system where the government is elected by the people, allowing citizens to choose their representatives and influence legislation.
Power Source:
Monarchy: Power is typically inherited and concentrated in the hands of the monarch.
Democracy: Power derives from the consent of the governed, with leaders chosen through elections.
Decision-Making:
Monarchy: Decisions are made by the monarch, which can lead to swift action but may lack public input.
Democracy: Decisions are made through elected representatives, promoting accountability and public participation.
Stability vs. Representation:
Monarchy: Can provide stability and continuity, but may lack responsiveness to the people's needs.
Democracy: Prioritizes representation and accountability, but can sometimes lead to slower decision-making processes.
Conclusion
While monarchies may offer stability and efficient decision-making, democracies emphasize representation, accountability, and the protection of individual rights. Each system has its strengths and weaknesses, influencing how societies are governed.
Monarchy is usually caution and single out with religion in its weakness.
Democracy is a hard case its single out and caution with its critics who are hard to find.
No religion aligns with democracy. The notion that Christianity = democracy just ignores basic history. Personal freedoms came primarily due to 1) separation from the church and 2) technological progress. I know people will throw a fit, but unfortunately for your ideology, Islam has the same potential. And lets not forget it was the Polytheists who gave us the foundations of democracy, philosophy and science we live and know today.
Separation of church and state is not separation of religion and state. There is no separation of mosque and state.
Separation of church and state means the state would neither be Catholic or Protestant.
@@post_eternity "separation of church and state is not separation of religion and state." the concept of separation of church and state doesn't only mean the building... or just the Catholic church, it is an all encompassing philosophical and jurisprudential ideology that defines political distance between religious organizations and the state, meaning what a Church would be defined as in the broadest of terms. As the worldly incarnation of the religion, aka the word of God, the Church - any organization of religious believers - is also its political agent, so yes, the separation of Church and State IS the separation of religion and State, bc you are removing any direct political power and legality from religion, and you are reducing its scope to potentially influencing personal preferences, manifested trough individual voting rights (talking about modern democracies). "There is no separation of mosque and state." - yes there is Turkey, Albania, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, BiH, every Muslim majority country in the Russian federation. "separation of church and state means the state would neither be Catholic or Protestant." it wouldn't be religious to begin with, it has nothing to do with denominations. This is the issue with discourse in general today, you can write something like that which sounds powerful and righteous, but in its essence is misinterpreted and wrong, and then I have to write all of this just as rebuttal. Not to mention, that for some reason in your world Islam is a monoblock, while Christianity is multipotential, something that also speaks volumes.
Talk more bullsht
Equality and Human rights derive from the Bible, and throughout time any other religions made toxic hierarchy
The notion of value in each human lives was developed in the English Anglican, and built on foundations of America
Islam is the worsts of creating a competitive society due to its poor authoritarian tyranny
@7ank3d No they don't! anyone with basic knowledge of History and philosophy can tell you that, your insults imply you feel called out and are triggered bc you suspect what I wrote is true. for example Thomas Aquinas was heavily influenced by a) Aristotle b) Roman Ius Naturale c) Ibn Sina, so a pagan philosopher, a pagan legal system and a Muslim mystic. Please stop listening to Jordan Peterson and the likes and start reading actual books. Christianity is not an island or glimmer of light, its just a religion.
@@AriSuper0001 The called out person is you. Please read books other than your propaganda.
Democracy and equality were central to political thought in Ancient Greece. Thus the development through time up until today, specifically best portrayed in Western societym Human rights bases on inherent value, thus the biblical foundation on Christianity.
You should help yourself with Jordan Peterson because you need him for your narrow capacity.
What on earth is he ranting about? He is incoherent and makes no sense. Maybe it’s because there is no argument to support Islam being democratic.
Looking forward to Mosab Hassan Youssef speech
Southport attacker was not a Muslim but he downloaded a manual of al-qeda. Dumb.
When the chief constable announced this manual, she failed to disclose that this book was written by an American psychiatrist, Jerrold Post, who worked as an analyst for the CIA.
She also failed to mention that it was a legal publication available widely online including at American Universities and also sold by Waterstones, Blackwells and eBay at the time of her press conference.
So no it's not a terror manual. More a text book. If I had a text book on the Christian War Tactics that doesn't make me a crusader!
@@Sahedul1unless you committed a crusader act. I think the most accurate report is that he was quite possibly inspired by an Al Queda manual in his possession. Of course, all it takes to become a Muslim is saying a few lines, but until that’s confirmed you can’t say he was
@@Sahedul1So he had a textbook about AlQueda, because he was studying to be a counter-terrorism expert. stop gaslighting.
The previous speakers spoke of actual events and beliefs, Nawaz just lied, we are all aware he has now been charged under the terrorism act when they found biological toxin and an al Qaeda training manual in his house ... try debating around the truth!
I fail to grasp what his counter-argument against the motion is! Am I the only one?
5:56" because my muchlim friends are volatile"
Utter nonsense
Democracy places sovereignty in the hands of a group of people.
Islam places sovereignty only in the essence of our Creator.
We are not the same.
People like Majid embody the saying “one man, two masters”. Or, as we Brits say, “one man, two guvnors”.
Islam is a religion of democracy and peace
Daaam I can't even say it without laughing
I wonder who started WW1, WW2.. The biggest wars committed in the world were by Christians and atheists. The fact that you even wrote that shows your ignorance. Go educate yourself a little bit.
I wonder who started WW1, WW2… The biggest wars in the world were committed by chr!stains and athe!sts. Next time go educate yourself.
And in conclusion, yes Islam is the most peaceful religion on earth.
Why so? Islam is a religion, it’s not inherently linked to any political system
Journey from raxical >> normal >> raxical… 360 degree turn. Back where he started
Yeah I can absolutely confirm from my perspective that he didn’t win me over. It’s still Bull. there’s no point reading past sura 4 vs 82 ✌️
Maajid is a very good rhetoricain and could probably argue that Naziism is compatible with democracy - theoretically. The better question is why Muslims in the Middle East and much of the world where Islam is dominant, are not democratic, and what would it take to make them so? The way the Jews and Christians solved the problem was through secularism, by dividing church and state, such as in Indonesia and the few other majority Muslim states which have some level of democracy. So, given these examples exist, then clearly Islam CAN be compatible with democracy.
The US, arrogantly attempted to create democratic institutions in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places in the Muslim world without much success. The reason is that you can't simply hold elections and create a democracy. For example, Gazans had democracy WITHOUT a republican structure for about as long as it took the voting to determine a victor. Once elected, Hamas never held another election because THEY are not a democratic organization AND because they had no interest in building the secular institutions a democratic republic requires.
Maajid's attempt to distinguish between islamISM and Muslim is BULLSHIT and is not relevant to the proposition because he fails to mention that what must be made distinct from Islam is not merely its interpretation, but its place in the state. Interpretation of the Qu'ran or Islam is an ongoing issue that will never be definitively settled, so claiming IslamISM is the problem is question begging. The Muslims MUST be willing to allow secularism and to place religion in a position where it does not have power over the state institutions.
The fact is, neither Judaism nor Christianity would be compatible with democracy IF the state lacked the proper institutions that first enable "rule of law" (which is not merely a set of judicial institutions, but ones where secular law is applied to everyone equally. If they were to implement Sharia as the grounds for their law, then the institutions that grow out from the judicial system would not function as secular, and therefore, democratic representation could not occur because it is possible that an elected official would point out that Sharia law is not secular law and so does not allow for citizens to opt out of religion. Not the Qu'ran, but the Haddith, as I understand it, is where Islam claims that apostates should be killed.
In the case of Palestine and Hamas, the Gazans apparently wanted revenge on Israel more than they wanted a functioning government and society. This is what democracy, without other institutions necessary to a modern state, can get you.
So, again, how does a society build the institutions necessary for a democratic republic? In the West, the Renaissance and the Enlightment paved the way. But where do these intellectual movements ome from? They evolved organically, especially after protestantism, in its long power battles with the state (monarchies), somehow evolved toward this form of government. Islam has lacked a similar protestant reformation that profoundly impacted its institutions thus paving the way for the kind of societies and governments we have in the West. The US was the only democracy of its kind at the time of its inception. Others learned from it, and Muslim countries could too, but the people would have to want this and the trajectory now does not seem to favor it. Islam is trying to assert itself in the West as well as in its native places, but things can change quickly, like a fire, with the right conditions. So we shall see.
If anyone of what I've said is later brought up by Maajid, then I yield to him. I got about 9 minutes in before becoming bored with his sophistry and decided to comment on what I'd heard so far.
He can say whatever he wants. Even if the word democratic or to say 'fair selected government " it just doesnt exist in islamic countries. Not 1. Its all monarchy or dictatorial regimes.
Actually 😂 Oxford should be in Egypt like al Azhar University 😂
Alright fine, fine, it can be compatible.. but then all of Islam combined counts as a single vote, alright? Fair is fair lol
"Where is the Mossab video?"
Islamic democracy where people chose their leader who implement the Rules set by God.
There are 56 islamic country..
Plese let me know ...how many countries have democratic system and secularism....
So why is a democratic system important and why should it be secular vs anything else?
@ozhoneybadger
Statate represented is elected by the people ...he ll work for the people
If India and Europe become fundamentalist like most of the islamic country what will be fate of minority
worst speaker of this session he just kept on saying they conceded and they conceded rather then putting his argument hypothesis and proving them
Than why are they risking their lives to come to democratic countries leaving their homes
Islam? Maybe. Political Islam? No.
I have a question if both parties agreed on democracy then is there any example of a country in the world which is following democracy without any flaw?
I didn't get any point that opposes the motion from him
"imposed those pre-definitions" yes like a consensus of differing opinion and values, morals-opposition has similar reasoning not prejudice.
Students clapping in Oxford? How long have they been practicing? Surprised me fair play keep it up and soon you'll be on the same planet as the rest of us grown ups
This man got OLD so quickly!
....This is not true. One verse in Quran in around 612 AD when the democracy was unknown to whole world declared that o you ppl, decide matter of your public affairs by mutual consultation. 42:38 "amruhum shura baynahum". Magna Carta will come in 12century. we are talking 600 years before that when Kings used to be God like figure. Quran is clearly saying to decide your public affairs with mutual consultation. The next verse then clears that is for authorities of the community. the same principle was followed by prophet Muhammad throughout his life, every major decision for the community he used to have the consultation and will see where majority is inclined to. So much so that the first 3 Khalifa (Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman) all were democratically elected (as per the possible voting procedure of those times) Khalifa and anyone could question them about their conduct, that's why they were called Khalifa Rashidun. In later years Muslim could not develop a parliament type shoora and election procedure and the kingdom came back in Muslim empires, but the judiciary was separated in early years itself. You should dig deeper in Quran's clear stand on democracy and the election of first 3 Khalifa in Muslim history.
sorry sir but u spoke a lot yet said nothing
This guy wasn't an ex muslim?
No, he never left the religion.