@@IndianaDoug I don't anything I can do will change people's opinions on square It's amazing what we can learn by hammering a cutter into wood. Don't know why I didn't do this sooner
In a little different direction, I freehand rip a lot of lumber. I have found that the angle of the cutters increase the width of the cut and also the roughness because the cutters pull left and right. I sharpen mine at 0 deg, this makes a very smooth cut and lets the bar follow the cut to keep it straight and needs to cut less so it is faster using less gas. Use full chisel and remove the rackers, this produces a long chip but not long enough to clog the saw. In freehand cutting you only use about the first foot of bar so you can use a longer bar than normal that also helps with straightness. Occasionally I will use the ripping rig to buck a log when I don’t want to change over for just one cut and find it still works surprisingly well.
@@D-B-Cooper This is something I'm starting to do more. I had some experience with an Alaskan style mill and it sucks, so I started ripping freehand because it's so much more efficient. I have not really experimented with chains for it yet so that's something new to learn for me next year
It would be amazing if someone could film a closeup in ultra slow motion of a chain chewing it's way thru a log. That would clear up a lot of mysteries.
There is some slow Mo video of it cutting out there but it doesn't show a lot of detail. There are also some photos done with Carlton / Tilton back in the late 70's or early 80's using strobe photography at night trying to capture what it's does. If you search RUclips for a video called Dan Tilton chainsaw safety the pics are referenced in part of that video where he is explaining how chain works. It's definitely worth a watch. I have tried but there is too much dust and chips in the air to capture anything worthwhile, so I'm stuck with using an educated guess at how it all works
What is pulling or "snapping" the cutter back against the bar if you are running a very loose chain? Not that I've looked into it in any great detail but I can't see in my minds eye how or why the cutter once engaged in the wood why or how? it would "rock" itself out of and disengage from pulling itself into the wood? Genuine question I don't get it. Thinking about it how far is a cutter pulling through wood before rocking back out? Cutting across the grain in our timber we don't get very big chips but I've done ripping cuts before in soft timber and the noddles can be 4-5 inch long so I guess one could assume the cutter is staying engaged for like 5inch in that scenario?
@@SawChainTheoriesYears ago I found the "Carlton Chain filing Manual" a VERY detailed document as to what everything does on a chain cutter and what consequences of various angles or grind profiles are. It's a good read and downloadable in pdf format. Not that u need it, but it's probably the most correct saw chain doc I've seen.
@@roguesixty1692 Honestly, I can't say for sure because it's not something we can see, but we have all been there with a loose chain and if you give the saw a rev the chain gets pulled back up to the bottom of the bar This will be from the force being applied to the chain from spinning around the sprocket. I think the tension is being created by the rotational force and from the cutters being dragged into the wood. It wants to pull the chain back into line and the cutters back down. I could be completely wrong because I sure as shit ain't no science guy I deleted a section in the video talking about the fibre structure and why we see different chips because I didn't explain it well and it just added confusion. My thought is that our wood is harder and more brittle. The fibres crumble and break off and that also lets the cutter leave the wood sooner, so smaller chips. Chip size cross vs rip is due to the fibre structure being more flexible / playable in that direction. It doesn't break off in the same way and allows the cutter to stay in the wood longer. There is a better than average chance I am completely wrong here. I'm just an idiot that has spent too long holding onto a saw, huffing 2 stroke, wondering how it works
Good video, I cut a fair bit too and are in Australia. Many years ago I discovered many things those in the US were doing simply didn't work here in my world. I found myself detuning chains in order to get them to cut faster. That inner top plate angle and hook or side plate profile are critical. Get it wrong and in our wood the chain becomes 'grabby', inefficiant and violent towards your gear. Smooth, self feeding chain is what cuts dense wood fast. Pretty much all my chain is semi chisel with a portion of square. Full chisel can be ok in green wood or softer species but for the day to day grind, it just doesn't hold uo for the readons articulated in this video. Shame really, cause I like the way it cuts. .404 is your freind her too, I find on 65cc+ saws it provides the best value with so much more meat on the cutters you get the most sharpenings per chain. Australian conditions does force you to learn all this stuff otherwise your cutting experience is terrible. I subscribed.
@@aussiehardwood6196 Had the same experience over the years, what I kept seeing didn't work well here. The more experienced people I have found all come to the same conclusions as you. Lots of 404 and reduced side plate angles to get the job done
Great info and good job explaining it for just some 2 stroke huffing fool like myself ;) just to be clear was the first cutter a chisel shape that was round ground? Or was it also square but with just a different side plate angle? Also do you hand file or machine grind your square? Thanks so much for going into this. I know you mentioned your slow mo videos didn’t show much but might be cool to see them anyway. Also I wonder if you could have some air compressor blowing the saw dust away from the cut to get a better view.
The cutter is from a Stihl 46RS chain - 404 full chisel with its factory round grind I file square because the grinders are extremely rare and expensive here. There are a few ways of changing the cutter with a round file that work for me. I will do this again with a few cutters sharpened in different ways to try and show the differences when I get time
Awesome explanation and close in video work. You’re explanation of the working cycle in its phases were extremely illuminating, thank you.
This is an excellent explanation of the cutting tooth working and how it can change! Fantastic, thanks!
@@timberandtools it's amazing what we can learn with a hammer and a piece of wood
Great video mate. I'll bookmark this for future reference and definitely send it to some people who need it as well. 😁
Such a good video!! I hope a lot of people see this. Especially the square profile bit. Great job👍🏻
@@IndianaDoug I don't anything I can do will change people's opinions on square
It's amazing what we can learn by hammering a cutter into wood. Don't know why I didn't do this sooner
@@SawChainTheories I shared this to all my groups. Hope it helps, thanks for the content👍🏻
This was incredibly inforrmative, thank you for this video!!!
In a little different direction, I freehand rip a lot of lumber. I have found that the angle of the cutters increase the width of the cut and also the roughness because the cutters pull left and right. I sharpen mine at 0 deg, this makes a very smooth cut and lets the bar follow the cut to keep it straight and needs to cut less so it is faster using less gas. Use full chisel and remove the rackers, this produces a long chip but not long enough to clog the saw. In freehand cutting you only use about the first foot of bar so you can use a longer bar than normal that also helps with straightness. Occasionally I will use the ripping rig to buck a log when I don’t want to change over for just one cut and find it still works surprisingly well.
@@D-B-Cooper This is something I'm starting to do more. I had some experience with an Alaskan style mill and it sucks, so I started ripping freehand because it's so much more efficient. I have not really experimented with chains for it yet so that's something new to learn for me next year
It would be amazing if someone could film a closeup in ultra slow motion of a chain chewing it's way thru a log.
That would clear up a lot of mysteries.
There is some slow Mo video of it cutting out there but it doesn't show a lot of detail. There are also some photos done with Carlton / Tilton back in the late 70's or early 80's using strobe photography at night trying to capture what it's does. If you search RUclips for a video called Dan Tilton chainsaw safety the pics are referenced in part of that video where he is explaining how chain works. It's definitely worth a watch.
I have tried but there is too much dust and chips in the air to capture anything worthwhile, so I'm stuck with using an educated guess at how it all works
@@SawChainTheories You would need a camera like the Slo Mo Guys are using.
What is pulling or "snapping" the cutter back against the bar if you are running a very loose chain?
Not that I've looked into it in any great detail but I can't see in my minds eye how or why the cutter once engaged in the wood why or how? it would "rock" itself out of and disengage from pulling itself into the wood?
Genuine question I don't get it.
Thinking about it how far is a cutter pulling through wood before rocking back out? Cutting across the grain in our timber we don't get very big chips but I've done ripping cuts before in soft timber and the noddles can be 4-5 inch long so I guess one could assume the cutter is staying engaged for like 5inch in that scenario?
@@SawChainTheoriesYears ago I found the "Carlton Chain filing Manual" a VERY detailed document as to what everything does on a chain cutter and what consequences of various angles or grind profiles are. It's a good read and downloadable in pdf format. Not that u need it, but it's probably the most correct saw chain doc I've seen.
@@roguesixty1692 Honestly, I can't say for sure because it's not something we can see, but we have all been there with a loose chain and if you give the saw a rev the chain gets pulled back up to the bottom of the bar
This will be from the force being applied to the chain from spinning around the sprocket. I think the tension is being created by the rotational force and from the cutters being dragged into the wood. It wants to pull the chain back into line and the cutters back down. I could be completely wrong because I sure as shit ain't no science guy
I deleted a section in the video talking about the fibre structure and why we see different chips because I didn't explain it well and it just added confusion. My thought is that our wood is harder and more brittle. The fibres crumble and break off and that also lets the cutter leave the wood sooner, so smaller chips.
Chip size cross vs rip is due to the fibre structure being more flexible / playable in that direction. It doesn't break off in the same way and allows the cutter to stay in the wood longer.
There is a better than average chance I am completely wrong here. I'm just an idiot that has spent too long holding onto a saw, huffing 2 stroke, wondering how it works
GREAT video!!!!
Signed,
A wildland d firefighter
Good video, I cut a fair bit too and are in Australia. Many years ago I discovered many things those in the US were doing simply didn't work here in my world. I found myself detuning chains in order to get them to cut faster. That inner top plate angle and hook or side plate profile are critical. Get it wrong and in our wood the chain becomes 'grabby', inefficiant and violent towards your gear. Smooth, self feeding chain is what cuts dense wood fast. Pretty much all my chain is semi chisel with a portion of square. Full chisel can be ok in green wood or softer species but for the day to day grind, it just doesn't hold uo for the readons articulated in this video. Shame really, cause I like the way it cuts. .404 is your freind her too, I find on 65cc+ saws it provides the best value with so much more meat on the cutters you get the most sharpenings per chain. Australian conditions does force you to learn all this stuff otherwise your cutting experience is terrible. I subscribed.
@@aussiehardwood6196 Had the same experience over the years, what I kept seeing didn't work well here.
The more experienced people I have found all come to the same conclusions as you. Lots of 404 and reduced side plate angles to get the job done
👍
Great explanation
Great work‼😍 Thank you❗
Great information!
Great info and good job explaining it for just some 2 stroke huffing fool like myself ;) just to be clear was the first cutter a chisel shape that was round ground? Or was it also square but with just a different side plate angle? Also do you hand file or machine grind your square? Thanks so much for going into this. I know you mentioned your slow mo videos didn’t show much but might be cool to see them anyway. Also I wonder if you could have some air compressor blowing the saw dust away from the cut to get a better view.
The cutter is from a Stihl 46RS chain - 404 full chisel with its factory round grind
I file square because the grinders are extremely rare and expensive here.
There are a few ways of changing the cutter with a round file that work for me. I will do this again with a few cutters sharpened in different ways to try and show the differences when I get time
good vid well done //// how shit works 😁😁😁😁😁