If I send six Vocals to a SubGroup for processing, will I still be able to control the volume for each vocal channel at the fader level? Good example would be If I have one or two lead vocals that need to come-in to the SubGroup loader.
A subgroup follows the volume, panning, and channel delay of the channel (in additional to the channel processing). So if vocal 1 is at -5 and panned slightly left in the house mix, then that’s exactly how it will be in the submix, too. The only other control you have that is separate is an on/off control. -Chad
How do you do it if you have a broadcast bus and you want the drums to go in pre-fader and the rest post-fader? (For instance, in a room where the drums are really loud naturally so most of it doesn't need amplification in the room, but you do need to add it to the broadcast)
I’ve got a few options that depend on how loud the drums are in the room and how actively your sound crew is monitoring and adjusting the online mix. - best option is to create an enclosure for the drums to give you more control and to make the house sound and online sound more unified. Unfortunately, this costs money and isn’t as attractive as an exposed kit but it would fix your issue :) - otherwise, if you have one engineer mixing both house and online at the same time, and if the drums aren’t extremely loud, you may want to continue doing a post-fade mix but with the drums boosted over the other band channels. This gives you the benefit of still “following” your house mix. For example, if you boost the snare for a specific section, it would get louder in both mixes at the same time since it’s a post-fade mix. I would set all the other band elements to -5 or -10 going to the online mix (post fade) and set the drums between 0 to +10 as needed to boost them proportionally online. - if the drums are so loud that they basically aren’t in the house mix at all and purchasing an enclosure is not a realistic option, back to the question you asked, you can change the drum channels to be pre-fade going to the online mix. I don’t have a wing in front of me but I’ll do my best to explain. Select a drum channel, go to the sends tab, change the signal tap from “Link to Bus” to “Individual” and select “Pre Fader”. I hope that helps :) -Chad
@@AWTechTuesday thanks Chad!! We're getting the Wing. There's already a screen in front of the drums. The drummer still manages to hit 83dB at FOH on the cymbals alone in an auditorium of 500... Probably the best solution is to ask for taking it easy a bit or different cymbals. But he's cool and young and very enthusiastic so you know... don't want to bother or discourage him. :) It's nice to have your options available and explained for when we start installing!
@@spookie3000 I will say, a shield in front of a drum kit is potentially useless if it is not also paired up with a padded roof and rear. It will redirect the sound but not absorb it. If you can add those 2 elements, I think you’ll love the difference. Research the LidPac from Sorber aka Clearsonic. Get the one with the extra panel. They also make a panel that is 2 long panels held together with a hinge. These are great for the rear and can act as door to enter and exit. Trust me, BIG difference 😉
@@AWTechTuesday Thanks!! I know you have used both the wing and the Presonus Studio Live series 3, which one would be your pick? I am looking to upgrade from a 24.4.2, the wing is my pick but my volunteers are still learning so the workflow of Presonus makes sense, but I know the wing is the future at least for small churches. Thoughts?
Hi there again! I d like to ask you this : I saw from tutorials about wing that the inputs can have maximum 23.5 ms delay....is there an option for wing to be capable adding more delay when assigning the inputs to a sub group?? My company is thinking of buying wing and wanted to know if it is capable of that ...because when we stream conferences mics must have around 165 ms delay in order to be synced with the image from cameras (which get a lot of processing that's why we have to delay the mics ) and I also cannot delay the output ( my whole mix for stream ) because other inputs ( video playback , zoom-teams remote speakers ) don't need any delay ...my only thought is adding an insert dly to that sub group (mics sub group)but I ask you if there is a faster/easier way... Take care mate And keep on making nice and informative videos!
At some point, they added a lot more channel delay to the Wing. I don’t have a Wing in front of me to check at this moment, so this may not be completely accurate, but on the Mixing Station app, they show that channel delay can go up to 500ms. Another option is to insert the stereo delay on your bus. Make certain that the filters are turned off and that the feedback is set to “0”. I’ve done that in the past with excellent results. Hope that helps! -Chad
Seems rather self-defeating to remove the ability to have individual (or in the case for X32 - in groups of two) settings for tap points and then add an EQ for the tap point which would affect everyone using that tap point (which everyone needing a pre-fader mix would have to). If the singer wants more high end on their vocals, it will have to affect everyone listening to it from mix buses... 16:15 why would that be silly? I rarely use individual pan for anything else than toms and maybe singers, or if someone requests to have individual pan for something else. Much easier to just link it to channel, so when you pan something you don't have to go to every channel and pan them, which is very time consuming and can easily lead to someone receiving something in center that was meant to be panned L/R just because you forgot to pan it (have had that happen to me multiple times when playing keys and the sound tech forgot to link send pan to channel and just panned it on the channel and forgot to do it in the buses)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Really well explained!
Interesting idea to use only the Filter tap point for guitars
Thanks sir! Such a powerful mixer :)
Thanks for watching and commenting
-Chad
Those tap points are great.
If I send six Vocals to a SubGroup for processing, will I still be able to control the volume for each vocal channel at the fader level? Good example would be If I have one or two lead vocals that need to come-in to the SubGroup loader.
A subgroup follows the volume, panning, and channel delay of the channel (in additional to the channel processing). So if vocal 1 is at -5 and panned slightly left in the house mix, then that’s exactly how it will be in the submix, too. The only other control you have that is separate is an on/off control.
-Chad
@@AWTechTuesday Thanks for your quick response. As always, very good informative videos. I never stop learning.
How do you do it if you have a broadcast bus and you want the drums to go in pre-fader and the rest post-fader? (For instance, in a room where the drums are really loud naturally so most of it doesn't need amplification in the room, but you do need to add it to the broadcast)
I’ve got a few options that depend on how loud the drums are in the room and how actively your sound crew is monitoring and adjusting the online mix.
- best option is to create an enclosure for the drums to give you more control and to make the house sound and online sound more unified. Unfortunately, this costs money and isn’t as attractive as an exposed kit but it would fix your issue :)
- otherwise, if you have one engineer mixing both house and online at the same time, and if the drums aren’t extremely loud, you may want to continue doing a post-fade mix but with the drums boosted over the other band channels. This gives you the benefit of still “following” your house mix. For example, if you boost the snare for a specific section, it would get louder in both mixes at the same time since it’s a post-fade mix. I would set all the other band elements to -5 or -10 going to the online mix (post fade) and set the drums between 0 to +10 as needed to boost them proportionally online.
- if the drums are so loud that they basically aren’t in the house mix at all and purchasing an enclosure is not a realistic option, back to the question you asked, you can change the drum channels to be pre-fade going to the online mix. I don’t have a wing in front of me but I’ll do my best to explain. Select a drum channel, go to the sends tab, change the signal tap from “Link to Bus” to “Individual” and select “Pre Fader”.
I hope that helps :)
-Chad
@@AWTechTuesday thanks Chad!! We're getting the Wing. There's already a screen in front of the drums. The drummer still manages to hit 83dB at FOH on the cymbals alone in an auditorium of 500... Probably the best solution is to ask for taking it easy a bit or different cymbals. But he's cool and young and very enthusiastic so you know... don't want to bother or discourage him. :)
It's nice to have your options available and explained for when we start installing!
@@spookie3000 I will say, a shield in front of a drum kit is potentially useless if it is not also paired up with a padded roof and rear. It will redirect the sound but not absorb it. If you can add those 2 elements, I think you’ll love the difference. Research the LidPac from Sorber aka Clearsonic. Get the one with the extra panel. They also make a panel that is 2 long panels held together with a hinge. These are great for the rear and can act as door to enter and exit. Trust me, BIG difference 😉
Do the subgroups take up a physical output? Or is it internal routing?
No, unless you route them to a physical output, it’s just internal.
@@AWTechTuesday Thanks!! I know you have used both the wing and the Presonus Studio Live series 3, which one would be your pick? I am looking to upgrade from a 24.4.2, the wing is my pick but my volunteers are still learning so the workflow of Presonus makes sense, but I know the wing is the future at least for small churches. Thoughts?
@@Raymanuelmuzik I definitely prefer the Wing. Both will do the trick but personally I’d choose the Wing.
@@AWTechTuesday thanks!!
How to change The bus tap point to Pre fader instead
Hi there again! I d like to ask you this : I saw from tutorials about wing that the inputs can have maximum 23.5 ms delay....is there an option for wing to be capable adding more delay when assigning the inputs to a sub group?? My company is thinking of buying wing and wanted to know if it is capable of that ...because when we stream conferences mics must have around 165 ms delay in order to be synced with the image from cameras (which get a lot of processing that's why we have to delay the mics ) and I also cannot delay the output ( my whole mix for stream ) because other inputs ( video playback , zoom-teams remote speakers ) don't need any delay ...my only thought is adding an insert dly to that sub group (mics sub group)but I ask you if there is a faster/easier way...
Take care mate
And keep on making nice and informative videos!
At some point, they added a lot more channel delay to the Wing. I don’t have a Wing in front of me to check at this moment, so this may not be completely accurate, but on the Mixing Station app, they show that channel delay can go up to 500ms.
Another option is to insert the stereo delay on your bus. Make certain that the filters are turned off and that the feedback is set to “0”. I’ve done that in the past with excellent results.
Hope that helps!
-Chad
@@AWTechTuesday 500ms makes more sense...m32 x32 also reach that number ...thanks for the reply 🙋♂️
Seems rather self-defeating to remove the ability to have individual (or in the case for X32 - in groups of two) settings for tap points and then add an EQ for the tap point which would affect everyone using that tap point (which everyone needing a pre-fader mix would have to). If the singer wants more high end on their vocals, it will have to affect everyone listening to it from mix buses...
16:15 why would that be silly? I rarely use individual pan for anything else than toms and maybe singers, or if someone requests to have individual pan for something else. Much easier to just link it to channel, so when you pan something you don't have to go to every channel and pan them, which is very time consuming and can easily lead to someone receiving something in center that was meant to be panned L/R just because you forgot to pan it (have had that happen to me multiple times when playing keys and the sound tech forgot to link send pan to channel and just panned it on the channel and forgot to do it in the buses)