Diving ultra-deep into one of the all-time classics of Cybermen Doctor Who, 1968's The Invasion, and what it meant for Cybermen lore. patreon.com/chosenchimp
The "CyberCoordinator" is actually a CyberPlanner the wikia confirms it. The Invasion while not perfect did give a Blueprint to what we would see in Season 28/Series 2 of the show. You are right it is the better of the Cyber Stories in the 60's it's almost an Apex for The Cybermen.
I think there is a distinction between good cyberman story and good story, and Invasion is absolutely the last good cyberman story of the classic era. Cyberman are surprisingly hard to get *right* Earthshock for example is a good story, but a poor cyberman story. And in the new series, Closing time is an...ify story, but a good cyberman story.
10:57 "Is The Invasion the last really good Cybermen story of Classic Doctor Who?" I think the answer to this question greatly depends on how we define a 'really good Cybermen story'. If it's just a really good story with the Cybermen in it, Earthshock is the obvious candidate to boot Invasion out of the top spot. But if we're talking specifically about a good story for the Cybermen, that wields them effectively, then I'd have to say yes. Invasion is not only the last really good one, but the last one to rise above just plain 'bad'.
My all time favorite Cybermen design, pretty futuristic for their time, and it makes you ponder what lingers behind that suit. They along with the Cybusmen, Nomad, Mondans and Telosians are my favorite designs for Cybermen
This deserves more of an exploration than to actually address the Unknown Faces in Brain of Morbius and state they’re actually the Doctor’s rather than imply. A writer could explore the geopolitical aspect of the Cybermen invading USSR Russia, what impact they had on the nation, are they responsible for any technological advancements made after the invasion, did they invade in the open or did they have agents in the KGB and how did the government interpret it in relation to the Cold War; did they see it as an alien invasion or an act of aggression from the Americans before being talked out of it? I think Attack of the Cybermen should have addressed this question instead of making itself a sequel to Tomb of the Cybermen. Hell, a NuWho writer who realised they could do a Two Doctors thing by having a recent Doctor travel to Russia during the events of the Invasion and if they had been responsible for convincing the officials present to not declare war on the US should they assume the Cybermen are their creations.
We gonna just forget that the Cybermen in 'The Invasion' wear Dr Martin boots... laced boots. It always made me wonder who laced up the cyberboots, and why the Doctor never attempted to impair one by tying them together.
well if the cybermen are still roughly the same as they are in the tenth planet they may have still human feet & hands they just cover them in some kinda boot & glove. like I'd assume that they still have mostly human arms & legs. All they lack is the organs that really keep them ticking all but the brain. So maybe they have fashion of some kind. I think a unique story doctor who could explore would be cyberman society when not at war of the more normal people & have the doctor try & make a change in the cybermen society. Something of him trying to avoid the cybermen authorities & meeting maybe at some point the insane cybermen who feel emotion & trying to bring about a change.
@@cillianennis9921 I'm now picturing a Cyberman attempting to tie their laces much like a Goth chick who put her corset on first. That chest plate is just gonna get in the way. XD
@@DokkaChapman maybe they have a cybermat for that. What other reason must they have for it. Or maybe they get their pal to do it. Maybe even the conversion machines have a setting for tieing laces
Yes it is. The Invasion is one of the great classic series stories. I saw episode 8 on the big screen at The Filmhouse cinema Edinburgh in 1983. Out of all the eps screened for the 20th anniversary season. The Invasion episode 8 brought the house down. Great stuff.
Okay, I'll admit, Invasion was the best of the classic Who Cybermen stories although, got to admit, Tomb is always hammering on the back of my brain demanding my attention,
It does all fit together if the Mondasian colonists converted themselves AFTER settling on Telos and Planet 14. Then parallel evolution still happens. The cryons would still have been conquered by cybermen in that instance, only they began as a bunch of colonists probably settling a harsher uninhabited part of the planet. They Probably thought them weird and suspicious, but they were likely gonna die out pretty fast anyway…until they didn’t.
I am in the middle of recovering from knee replacement surgery. Thank you for this treat. We just watched Revenge yesterday and thought about how insane the Cybermen must have been fighting against their emotions. Invasion Cybermen are great.
Oh Great Chosen Chimp.. you need to listen to new Big Finish Eighth Doctor Audio ‘The Great Cyber War’… a twist at the end explains the long running continuity issues about exactly when Revenge is set and how the Cybermen in Earthshock know of the Revenge events when it’s implied elsewhere that Revenge is set many centuries later…
I agree. I can remember seeing an episode from The Invasion when I was about 6 or 7 years old... 'from behind the couch'. Incredible! I didn't see it again until it was released on VHS some 20+ years later. Everything else since just didn't cut it. It was the design. Mute terror that walked... but never tired.
Really great, well researched video Chimp. I wasn't aware of the David Banks book, he came up with a really credible explanation... muuuuch better than parallel evolution. Such a throw away line in an otherwise excellent story.
Well we can take the line about parallel evolution to be merely a guess by Capaldi so some of the planets on the list could be parallel evolution & others just where the cybermen invading. I think the main problem with that episode is that by the end the cybermen look like they do in the current show at the time instead of making them be maybe for a while the 80s design & then finally something more like that. Also I wonder if we'll ever see a more 80s design where you can see that its really just an augmented human instead of a robot with a human brain. Like with the right styling they could work like the way the originals work in the doctor falls.
I prefer the cold, mostly silent Cybermen from the 60s era but as I understood it (From tht very Cybermen book) the Nomads (Revenge) and definitely the Neomorphs (Earthshock onwards) mimic emotions to manipulate humans they may be forced to interact with. So they can sound chuffed about this, or upset about that and I just put it down to this software, hardware, the hologram-y things on the Neo's foreheads? I think they're the source/cause. To be fair yes, I think Invasion is absolutely pique Cybermen in every sense. The early faction don't get enough love. Also, was it just me raging when in 'Dalek' they show a Nomad's head in Van Statten's Museum, implying a Nomad travelled in time... Which they didn't. I just got a 'It's from Invasion' vibe from them. I mean a Cyberman of any kind gets hold of a time machine they'll exploit it big time, just like Attack of the Cybermen, hence after that it doesn't matter but the Nomads surely would have used said time machine... Presuming it wasn't one of the very last Nomads drifting around the Milky Way at the time... Worth investigating?
It's from the '2016 Convention Special' prologue of Supremacy of the Cybermen.🙂. I talk about it a little more in this vid.. ruclips.net/video/ch4aVsKBbOU/видео.htmlsi=lYiZozmf4B9mii23
I'm sure if the doctor wasn't a thing in this story, we'd have a cyberman invasion story more akin the 2010s alien invasion movies like battle Los Angeles, it would be very gritty and explody, id imagine the cybermen would be in over their ear muffed handle heads, invading the soviet union , China and America would be a nightmare The cybermen of mondas might end up in the same position in the tenth planet, invasions of anywhere are really complicated and fail, look at a certain political event happening in a particular country that started last year.... I'm sure the cybus cybermen of doomsday would've lost horribly if the daleks didn't throw a curve ball and bail them out making them team up with the humans of both worlds With a bigger budget it totally would be battle Los Angeles
@@TheChosenChimpfair enough also do u know where the name cyber planner actually came from??? For me i like the name planner more but that’s my opinion some also call these things cyber directors
I don't know if they're ever even named in the TV shows, but I recall reading the name from Target novelisations when I was a kid so that might be the origin?
I would love it if David Banks wrote a updated book.
The "CyberCoordinator" is actually a CyberPlanner the wikia confirms it.
The Invasion while not perfect did give a Blueprint to what we would see in Season 28/Series 2 of the show.
You are right it is the better of the Cyber Stories in the 60's it's almost an Apex for The Cybermen.
The Invasion is one of The Absolute Best Stories of The Classic Era.
31:53 Vaughn swinging over the railing, once seen, cannot be unseen.
I think there is a distinction between good cyberman story and good story, and Invasion is absolutely the last good cyberman story of the classic era.
Cyberman are surprisingly hard to get *right*
Earthshock for example is a good story, but a poor cyberman story.
And in the new series, Closing time is an...ify story, but a good cyberman story.
10:57 "Is The Invasion the last really good Cybermen story of Classic Doctor Who?" I think the answer to this question greatly depends on how we define a 'really good Cybermen story'. If it's just a really good story with the Cybermen in it, Earthshock is the obvious candidate to boot Invasion out of the top spot. But if we're talking specifically about a good story for the Cybermen, that wields them effectively, then I'd have to say yes. Invasion is not only the last really good one, but the last one to rise above just plain 'bad'.
My all time favorite Cybermen design, pretty futuristic for their time, and it makes you ponder what lingers behind that suit. They along with the Cybusmen, Nomad, Mondans and Telosians are my favorite designs for Cybermen
i love the idea of a cyber invasion force landing in the ussr, criminal how that’s never been explored anywhere
This deserves more of an exploration than to actually address the Unknown Faces in Brain of Morbius and state they’re actually the Doctor’s rather than imply. A writer could explore the geopolitical aspect of the Cybermen invading USSR Russia, what impact they had on the nation, are they responsible for any technological advancements made after the invasion, did they invade in the open or did they have agents in the KGB and how did the government interpret it in relation to the Cold War; did they see it as an alien invasion or an act of aggression from the Americans before being talked out of it?
I think Attack of the Cybermen should have addressed this question instead of making itself a sequel to Tomb of the Cybermen. Hell, a NuWho writer who realised they could do a Two Doctors thing by having a recent Doctor travel to Russia during the events of the Invasion and if they had been responsible for convincing the officials present to not declare war on the US should they assume the Cybermen are their creations.
We gonna just forget that the Cybermen in 'The Invasion' wear Dr Martin boots... laced boots. It always made me wonder who laced up the cyberboots, and why the Doctor never attempted to impair one by tying them together.
well if the cybermen are still roughly the same as they are in the tenth planet they may have still human feet & hands they just cover them in some kinda boot & glove. like I'd assume that they still have mostly human arms & legs. All they lack is the organs that really keep them ticking all but the brain. So maybe they have fashion of some kind. I think a unique story doctor who could explore would be cyberman society when not at war of the more normal people & have the doctor try & make a change in the cybermen society. Something of him trying to avoid the cybermen authorities & meeting maybe at some point the insane cybermen who feel emotion & trying to bring about a change.
@@cillianennis9921 I'm now picturing a Cyberman attempting to tie their laces much like a Goth chick who put her corset on first. That chest plate is just gonna get in the way. XD
@@DokkaChapman maybe they have a cybermat for that. What other reason must they have for it. Or maybe they get their pal to do it. Maybe even the conversion machines have a setting for tieing laces
That isn't laces, that is big metal staples.
Yes it is. The Invasion is one of the great classic series stories. I saw episode 8 on the big screen at The Filmhouse cinema Edinburgh in 1983. Out of all the eps screened for the 20th anniversary season. The Invasion episode 8 brought the house down. Great stuff.
Okay, I'll admit, Invasion was the best of the classic Who Cybermen stories although, got to admit, Tomb is always hammering on the back of my brain demanding my attention,
It does all fit together if the Mondasian colonists converted themselves AFTER settling on Telos and Planet 14. Then parallel evolution still happens. The cryons would still have been conquered by cybermen in that instance, only they began as a bunch of colonists probably settling a harsher uninhabited part of the planet. They Probably thought them weird and suspicious, but they were likely gonna die out pretty fast anyway…until they didn’t.
Gotta love a Cyberman video! Thank you Chimp 🙏🏻
Awesome vid as usual ;) 18:09 Sorry to be pedantic but it's a kayak. A canoe is completely open topped. Seeing these drop always improves my day
Nah, Earthshock was pretty great to, and I like Attack of the Cybermen to
Could you imagine am animated look at the Invasion with The Cybermen marching around the world?
I think I prefer The Cybermen from "The Invasion": I don't like my Cybernen emotional.
I am in the middle of recovering from knee replacement surgery. Thank you for this treat. We just watched Revenge yesterday and thought about how insane the Cybermen must have been fighting against their emotions. Invasion Cybermen are great.
Hope you recover soon man
Hope you have a speedy recovery.🙂 Glad you enjoyed the vid.
'A story too big for its [Doc Martin?] boots.'
I'll say. According to some other source I found the Beeb only had six cybermen ...
This is an incredible video! Good job!
Wonderful! Thanks again chimp. Yet another video added to the 'liked videos' playlist
I can't believe this video only has 254 likes.
Oh Great Chosen Chimp.. you need to listen to new Big Finish Eighth Doctor Audio ‘The Great Cyber War’… a twist at the end explains the long running continuity issues about exactly when Revenge is set and how the Cybermen in Earthshock know of the Revenge events when it’s implied elsewhere that Revenge is set many centuries later…
Awesome vid
I agree. I can remember seeing an episode from The Invasion when I was about 6 or 7 years old... 'from behind the couch'. Incredible! I didn't see it again until it was released on VHS some 20+ years later. Everything else since just didn't cut it. It was the design. Mute terror that walked... but never tired.
Great video apart from the strange interlude lol
Don’t stand too close to those pylons! 😅
Can you do the Cybermen of Planet 14 expanded love the fantastic video
Ive got mixed nuts
Really great, well researched video Chimp. I wasn't aware of the David Banks book, he came up with a really credible explanation... muuuuch better than parallel evolution. Such a throw away line in an otherwise excellent story.
To be fair, that was probably thrown in to assure us Spare Parts wasn’t kicked out of canon.
This is probably very true, it still felt a bit cheap.
I do think Earthshock just about beats it to first place for me.
Attack of the Cybermen gotta be my all time favourite, (televised) Cybermen story.
The invasion is brilliant though.
A new video!
Awwww yiss, always here for a new vid from your fine self
Thank you. 😁😁🐵🐵
Well we can take the line about parallel evolution to be merely a guess by Capaldi so some of the planets on the list could be parallel evolution & others just where the cybermen invading. I think the main problem with that episode is that by the end the cybermen look like they do in the current show at the time instead of making them be maybe for a while the 80s design & then finally something more like that. Also I wonder if we'll ever see a more 80s design where you can see that its really just an augmented human instead of a robot with a human brain. Like with the right styling they could work like the way the originals work in the doctor falls.
I prefer the cold, mostly silent Cybermen from the 60s era but as I understood it (From tht very Cybermen book) the Nomads (Revenge) and definitely the Neomorphs (Earthshock onwards) mimic emotions to manipulate humans they may be forced to interact with. So they can sound chuffed about this, or upset about that and I just put it down to this software, hardware, the hologram-y things on the Neo's foreheads? I think they're the source/cause.
To be fair yes, I think Invasion is absolutely pique Cybermen in every sense. The early faction don't get enough love.
Also, was it just me raging when in 'Dalek' they show a Nomad's head in Van Statten's Museum, implying a Nomad travelled in time... Which they didn't. I just got a 'It's from Invasion' vibe from them. I mean a Cyberman of any kind gets hold of a time machine they'll exploit it big time, just like Attack of the Cybermen, hence after that it doesn't matter but the Nomads surely would have used said time machine... Presuming it wasn't one of the very last Nomads drifting around the Milky Way at the time... Worth investigating?
I must ask about the backstory for the photo at 9:40?
whats the comic at 7:23 ?
It's from the '2016 Convention Special' prologue of Supremacy of the Cybermen.🙂. I talk about it a little more in this vid.. ruclips.net/video/ch4aVsKBbOU/видео.htmlsi=lYiZozmf4B9mii23
I'm sure if the doctor wasn't a thing in this story, we'd have a cyberman invasion story more akin the 2010s alien invasion movies like battle Los Angeles, it would be very gritty and explody, id imagine the cybermen would be in over their ear muffed handle heads, invading the soviet union , China and America would be a nightmare
The cybermen of mondas might end up in the same position in the tenth planet, invasions of anywhere are really complicated and fail, look at a certain political event happening in a particular country that started last year....
I'm sure the cybus cybermen of doomsday would've lost horribly if the daleks didn't throw a curve ball and bail them out making them team up with the humans of both worlds
With a bigger budget it totally would be battle Los Angeles
I got a video idea for you, do horror on fang rock
ITS PLANET 14!!! Love this video but why do u keep calling the cyber planner a cyber coordinator
Only that that's what it's called in the David Banks book. I deliberated between calling it that and Planner but it's never really made clear.😉🐵
@@TheChosenChimpfair enough also do u know where the name cyber planner actually came from??? For me i like the name planner more but that’s my opinion some also call these things cyber directors
Not certain on the origins. Though I'll admit that 'Planner' has a nicer ring to it.🙂
I don't know if they're ever even named in the TV shows, but I recall reading the name from Target novelisations when I was a kid so that might be the origin?
😡 Promo>SM