Well I’m reporting back after 2 months since purchasing the RH-2 Rouge Reverse Hyper Machine. I can honestly say this damn machine is definitely helping me! Over a year of doing the McGill Method and seeing a McGill Master Clinician did nothing in addressing my lower back pain caused by a L5 disc bulge. Only two months of using this machine three times a week I am already beginning to have days of no pain and my back is feeling stronger as my confidence in my backs integrity returns. So damn glad I took a chance on this machine and ignored what these two said in this video. A couple things I would recommend to someone looking to purchase it for back rehab. Do not overload the weight. Rather start with no weight and slowly build your way up. The other thing is do not swing your legs under the table. Do not over arch your back at the top of the movement. Lastly, be in full control of the weight throughout the movement, squeeze your gluts at the top of the movement. Following these steps has truly helped in my back rehab when absolutely everything else failed.
Thanks for posting this. I am looking to get one soon. These guys advice may help some but the McGill method and moving like a robot to avoid spinal flexion did absolutely nothing for me
One thing I've never seen as part of the debate or from the pro-reverse hyper camp is: blood flow. When I had a herniated L4-L5, the owner of my gym had me doing them for that sole reason. Blood flow = healing.
I’m not a chiropractor or a physiotherapist but I was getting crippled with back pain and would walk around like a hedgehog. Working with a reverse hyper was a major reason along with work on hip mobility and strengthening my core that has led to me no longer having pain or discomfort.
Reverse hyper got my back healed when nothing else worked and it worked god damn fast as hell. Now I do them every session and my lower back is stronger than ever and feeling fantastic. Cannot say anything bad about the movement / apparatus.
List of exercises mentioned Hanging from a pullup bar McGills's Big Three: 1 Bird dog, 2 Side plank, 3 Curl up Stir the pot Rolling side plank The cat camel Mckenzie press up The dead bug Thank you Chris
This is the third video I've watched that the presenters say that the reverse hyper isn't rehabilitative yet you go to the comments on every one and there are scores of stories of of being just that.
I've been lifting straight for 30 years (100% natural). My back was in bad shape, every 6 months getting bad, shooting pain for weeks. Since finding the reverse hyper I never get back pain like that anymore. Never.
Same here, I've been using the principles of reverse hyper for more then 5 years and it has removed all the severe lower-back pain I had before. Reverse hypers can be very efficient dealing with lower-back pain if you can get someone to instruct / teach you how to use it right.
I've had stenosis of the lower lumbar for over 14 years. I've had physical therapy and chiropractic care and nothing worked. The same day of using my reverse hyper, my paid feels like it disappeared. Everybody has an opinion, but I'm vouching for the reverse hyper.
Hang in there, it's slow but does get better :) Try alternating things you do if it takes several months. For example, for me, quitting chins and rows made a significant impact on healing.
Basically the reverse hyper will work for some people at certain times and what these guys are advising will work for some people at certain times as well.You need to try as many different methods as possible until you find what works for you.
@@bp516 I’ve never used one before and was going to use the scout hyper by rogue as an entry point. Cause between spending $600 and not being able to walk lol
@@David-dw2iq i linked the titan one I bought but they removed the link. I paid 399. If you send me your email I can send pics. Its been a life changer for my back issues.
Doesn't help my back at all and it makes it worse I think. The fact that when it swings it puts my back in a position where it's rounded makes it worse I think. Idk I have atleast two herniated discs my s1 l5 for sure and it hasn't helped my back one bit
I get your point that this isn't for everyone, especially people with hyperlordosis. But with that said, MOST people are hypolordotic (flexor dominant) and need more exercises like this. Also, if this machine is providing traction, that can cause the herniation to improve due to negative pressure inside the disc space. When you are flexor dominant, by the way, more weight is on your vertebral bodies vs facets, which is not a good situation for the discs.
Ok, I have 2 bulging discs in a misaligned vertebra in my lower. I've been dealing with lower back pain for over a year I've done chiropractic physical therapy none of it helped that much. so I took a chance and bought a reverse hyper from rogue for $1300 with the optional ankle roller. It's been a full week and it's nothing short of amazing. My pain has decreased by 85% in just 5 days. I just wanted to let people know my results from a reverse hyper.
Jay A. I just ordered mine today too. Messed up my lower back deadlifting and don’t see the point of getting jerked around by doctors. I’m trying to cure and strengthen the root cause of back pain not slap a bandaid on it .i am very hopeful for good results
The problem with their argument is that there is no overhead load while flexing or rounding. That's why it's safe compared to rounding the back when squatting. I'm confused why they kept saying "under load" there is no load over your back!
there doesn't have to be weights to have a low back under load. bone cannot move without muscle, so poor posture habits that put excess stress on one muscle when it should be evenly dispersed to the group of muscles that cause the action, would be an example of load. our muscles are designed to evenly carry and move our bodies, for every flex there is a lengthening, when one remains flexed too long and often, the other stretches further and further to compensate its counter partner. then you end in an imbalance that can cause literally tons of problems
I agree with what you say but I am talking in reference to the common problem of rounding the lower back when doing squats with weights vs. rounding the lower back purposely for stretching those lower back muscles and allowing blood to flow to the disks of the lower spine. It was my understanding that the reverse hyper is good for disk issues because it allows that area to flex without being under an overhead stress. But I agree that we should not allow our backs to round for everyday posture as that will lead to issues.
Imageword there might not be as much compressive force, but the flexion force/tensile force during the eccentric is still very significant, especially if lumbar is flexed beyond anatomical position.
The reverse hyper was (and still is) the very thing that enabled me to get back to doing deadlifts and squats after I injured my lower back. I was lucky enough to get someone to teach me exactly how to use it and how (when done right) it will stretch and strengthen your lower back at the same time.
I spent years doing the mcgill stuff i tried the hip airplane the 90/90 breathing to pretty much zero effect im now 6 months into twice weekly with standing abs before and after squats and my back is the strongest and healthiest its ever been, no more pain down my legs no more tingling in my feet. The reverse hyper works
@@benbbuxton i do standing cable Abbs, however there's no spinal flexion abbs are contracted isometric and movement comes at the hips. I use different stances different rep ranges. I always put emphasis on standing all th way up and squeezing the glutes this is very very important because it allows the hip flexors to fully lengthen and be trained from the longest to shortest position and this in itself will releive a ton of back issues. Also when doing this exercise you must root yourself as if doing a squat or deadlift make sure you are activating everything in the lower body i squeeze the floor and torque my hips, you can also practice deep belly breathing while you perform this for added intensity
My 2c on RH: to quote McGill himself "it depends". I believe the reverse hyper can be part of the latter stages of rehab for several low back injuries depending on the history and symptoms of the patient. A big problem with it IMO is that the "form" with which people perform it combined with differences in people's anatomy (in particular their ability to posteriorly tilt the pelvis rather than flex at the spine) is that it's almost impossible to recommend it in a rehabilitation setting unless you can directly supervise the patient performing them
yes I agree with you - having used the reverse hyper machine to rehab my back, I would say that if you don't have someone to teach you the correct form, then you shouldn't use it at all.
Same thing can be said for the McGill Method. I spent thousands of dollars seeing a McGill Master Clinician. Did the 3 hour in person assessments and multiple follow ups. Even had a video call with Brian Carroll. I read Back Mechanic and The Gift of Injury. Practiced their rehab program daily for over a year. It did nothing for my pain. Did the McGill Big 3 every day. Everybody's injury is different. The reverse hyper may not help some, but for others it may be the answer to years of debleating back pain.
I agree that the reverse hyper doesn't make my back feel that much better. I think the Stuart McGill approach makes the most sense. Strengthen the muscles the way they were meant to be engaged; without any flexion. But what I don't understand is why in this video they're describing the reverse hyper as flexion under load. Its flexion, but the spine isnt loaded with compression.
As a 55 year old powerlifter for most of my life, squat only now, my bottom disc was gone at age 30 and I thought I was done. I saw some guys doing hyper extensions at the gym and tried them and the decompression immediately felt good, so I stayed with them. Hanging from a pullup bar, hanging from the hyper bench after doing a set, especially while holding a weight, and hanging upside down on my inversion table keep me going. Chiropractic is all important, as is deep tissue massage therapy. Start doing all of this before you have back trouble and you should stay pain free when you get old like me. Mr. Duffin's videos are inspiring, and the information he shares is invaluable. I'm thankful we have him sharing. Jim Edgerton
Hahahah everyone in the comments telling him it works. People who trash the reverse hyper.. normally don’t do them right and don’t do them often. If you lift.. do them. If your hurt, do bodyweight reverse hypers! It’s the decompression of the spine that heals people. The proof is in thousands of people’s results. I can’t stand people, especially people who have a foot in the equipment making/selling game, trying to trash other equipment. Don’t be fooled people, there’s always an agenda whether someone will admit it or not. Like the fact that I’m clearly biased towards this..
Thank you man, I appreciate the honest insight. I just bought a reverse hyper and I have been using it, making sure to start light and work on my form. I will definitely add the other exercises to my routine.
Louie Simmons broke his back multiple times (snapped it up, whatever technically happened) and repaired it enough with reverse hypers that he can still do just about any excercise on the planet, including deadlifts. So, you guys are either very misinformed about reverse hypers, or you're claiming that Louie is full of crap about reverse hypers.
A chiropractors table is essentially a reverse hyper extension with a reduced range of motion. First thing a chiro will do is pull your legs to decompress your spine. Pop your back and then do short range of motion reverse hypers to move fluid through your vertebrae. A chiro will tell you to keep moving as well. Walk.
There's no strengthening of your muscles which makes stretching useless. Without strengthening your muscles all that stretching does is rip apart ligaments
Ok so with all the shit in this video what he's actually saying is don't swing too high on a reverse hyper which will hyper extend your back, which Louie has said when he coaches the reverse hyper im not really sure what they're getting at I wish they would just coach everyone up on how to fix your back
I think they’re getting at the issue with coaching the skills to use the reverse hyper properly. Skills such as controlling pelvis position and core bracing are difficult to master, and without constant supervision, makes utilizing the reverse hyper very easy to screw up. So I believe Duffin is saying it’s better to teach those skills to help someone rehab their back, rather than tell them to go do a bunch of reverse hypers because Louie said so
Reverse hypers make my low back feel so good. So do hip thrusts. I started these due to being prone to back and hip injuries from deadlifts and squats, haven't had injuries since. I'm not sure how you would do this wrong if you have any body awareness, at least not on the machine we have. Core tight, flat back, lift with your glutes/hammies, not your back, don't go past your available ROM. If your core is tight, there shouldn't be any flexion. I've never been coached in person but I do learn a ton about form and technique thanks to RUclips and I always pay close attention to my body.
As pointed out by many people below, their argument is flawed at multiple points. Reverse hypers are great for many people, flexion is not harmful for many people, and is not the root cause of a lot of disc injuries.
I had 2 bulging discs in my l4 and l5 and I built a homemade reverse hyper table and it fixed my back pain in 2 weeks where 3 months of 2x a week physical therapy couldn't. The other thing that helped tremendously was dry needling from my physical therapist. Reverse hyped + dry needling was a miracle cure
Have you done them right and what did you expect to get out of them? have you done any other intervention when it comes to training and life to get you closer to your goal? Excersises are merely tools facilitating you reaching you'r goals. You can not expect a hammer to build a house by itself.
You might not be doing them right... I learned a bit later that you have to put a LOT of effort into each hold... These aren't like standard planks, you need to exert full effort the entire time. Doing bird dog should make you want to die once you're done 3 sets of them, with your transverse abdominis on fire
@@ryantmorgan91 It's about putting out 100% effort during the 10 second hold. Kick WAY back with the leg, flex glutes and hams, Push WAY forward with your arm, make a fist and flex shoulder and triceps. Flex abs entire time, push into ground with grounded limbs, and think about squeezing them together while keeping them planted on the ground. You should be shaking and sweating very quickly Check Layne Norton's video with Dr. McGill, where the Dr corrects his Bird Dog form. This is what led to my understanding of it, hearing it from the man himself instead of other youtubers. ruclips.net/video/syKKv3sQ4O8/видео.html
I’m with you. I have been doing the McGill Method after reading his book and also hired a McGill Master Clinician (not cheap) for the past year. It has done nothing for my lower back pain and disc bulge. :(
Just don't hyperextend, your feet has to be under your ''ass'' all the time. And it will definitely develop a strong low back, while working on your gluteus maximus and hamstrings!
Hey ,brother! Heres why its not such a great exercise ,Tattooed: If a person is using the reverse hyper and has the common back injury that people USE it for (Posterior L4-L5 herniation OR L5-S1 herniation),Then it will actually make it worse. NOT better. This is exactly what happens when you go into the forced loaded hip flexion and back extension of the reverse hyper. it actually will cause the leaked intervertebral fluid to compress the area even further by pressurizing it from the anterior squeezed (hip flexed) side of the disc. Think of it like this: If i grab a hamburger and squeeze it hard on one side with one hand, then the ketchup will leak out towards the side OPPOSITE of the compressed (squeezed) side. at the lowest part of the hyper, this is precisely what is occurring.
Saints of Marfa, I was thinking that it probably depends on the type of injury you have. I'm not as technical as I probably should be but depending on where a bulged disc may be, bending forward may help one person while making another person worse. That's the same with leaning back. I had a two-level fusion at L4-L5-S1. I've never had physical surgery and I'm in pretty bad shape, which is why I'm here looking for solutions. But I'm guessing it all depends on one's specific injury.
You have no idea how i felt when i heard you say IT'S NOT A LIFE SENTENCE. Thank you, i had a back surgery because sciatica was killing me, every thing is fine now but i wonder my self if would be able to squat again the way i use to. May be not, but at least enjoy the gym once again. What i want to say is Thank you! Feels like the faith is back. Thanks for sharing and for helping. God bless you guys.
I used to have my back go out a lot. I tried banded reverse hypers for my back, only made it worse. Stu McGill’s big 3 was the fix. No more chiropractors. No more weeks of being crippled.
Wish it was for me. I’m seeing a McGill Master Clinician (which isn’t cheap) and still suffering. Going on a year of daily pain even with the McGill approach.
Well, guess what - you can make a night and day difference in your back pain doing simple, very simple exercises and practicing very simple habits. What I'm saying has to do with reverse hypers and more. I completely fixed my lower back pain that killed me for 20+ years doing extremely controlled deadlifts, stretches, and addressing my balance at all times of both the day and night - while sitting, walking, driving, sleeping (literally when sleeping - simply put there are proper ways to lay down and you must change positions into proper positions through the night). At one point I had developed a mild sciatica and also some nerve issue in the other knee causing knee pain and cramping of the calf and inability to climb stairs for too long. That is all gone now. 100% gone. The X-rays of my lower back will make you cringe - that is how I started and I already generally explained how I fixed the problem. Looking back I agree - the techniques and practices I used will indeed look super simple to someone looking at me from the side. Same thing with reverse hypers - they look like anybody can do them properly. But that is not the whole story, not at all. It is probably like the misleading ease with which an Olympic lifter lifts a barbel but when you try you see you see how much goes into it and it is not mindful control at all times, not at all. Some things I did looked totally ridiculous - a 260 lbs man carefully deadlifting 185 lbs paying attention to every 1/2" of the barbell movement is a joke to everybody. But not to me - it as the main thing that fixed my back. The important point is that you must pay attention on HOW you perform the movement, not the start and end point. And establish the proper movement pattern so you do it without thinking about it. I now believe that most people move around in extremely improper ways. The same joint movement can be done in a variety of ways and only some of them or even a single one is the proper way. I can see how a reverse hyper works the exact same way - the movement seems a no-brainer but to be effective the muscles must use the proper moving pattern. The same thing can be said for learning to deadlift by watching RUclips videos. If you do not have the proper movement pattern down you will struggle and have a hard time understanding why all the good advice you got off watching hundreds of deadlift videos meant to teach you to deadlift just don't seem to work. It is because your body has learned wrong movement patterns. Once that is fixed it all changes completely. And with that I can also say that IF you really, really want to fix your back and not get under the surgeon's knife you WILL learn the fine points yourself. Meaning - you can learn to reverse hyper properly without an expert. Same for deadlift for fixing low back problems and other such exercises/practices. It is all you. Really.
As Chris was trying to build negativity towards the reverse hyper and the other guy on the right said “yeah or hyper extension that immediately told me he doesn’t understand a reverse hyper extension mechanism, and how it differs from a hyper. “Injuries caused by flexion under load” “I’d rather not spend the time training people to use a reverse hyper extension correctly I’d rather teach people to squat or deadlift “ are you kidding me? The key difference between a reverse hyper and all the other is that there is no sheering force on the vertebrae that’s how it heals. Regular hyper sand the squats and dead’s all cause sheering. This video is wrong !
You have to love the comments here. 99% of them are saying the reverse hyper saved their back which is real world experience compared to these guys theorizing on why it won't work.
In my opinion the extensor strengthening you get from something like a roman chair is better than the reverse hyper. Managing a heavy load by flexing the trunk instead of the legs (with extra weight) feels like a much more natural movement pattern (feels like pelvic tilt needs to be resisted on the reverse hyper but comes easy on Roman chair) and easier to not mess up the form. On top of that you begin in the extended position which is much more conducive to isometrics which is where you should begin anyways. Isometrics always number one for lower back injuries everything else comes after that.
i had a herniated disc and was back in the gym within two days because i figured out what caused it. i was deadlifting with narrow feet being a tall guy this over the years rotated my pelvis and even some yt coaches say thats fine. i did everything seated for a month and did hangs from the pull up bar to relieve the pressure. what fixed it for me was three things stretching the tight hip flexors then strengthening the abs with very heavy weight and finally switching my stance on squats and deadlifts to a wide stance which i feel no back at all. and the weird thing at the time could not squat down cause of the pain but i could lunge and not feel a thing so thats what i did for a month with just leg extensions too. once the sciatica went down and my mobility increased in the hips i was fine but did not deadlift for a few months to let the little last nagging bits heal.
TheOneAndOnly72 i did yoga exercises for a little while trying to loosen up all the tightness over my whole body. then i went on one of those abs machines but only bent forward a bit with light weight first and dont got to far back as this will hyper extend the spine. do these stretches Piriformis Stretch, pigeon pose, laying ham stretch, and reclined twist hold each for a min for 2 rounds and some you have to do both sides. this helped me loads sometimes it was a bit uncomfortable so go slow and i was taking cocodamol to get on with it which is not good to take for too many days. just google the stretches cause i cant find the article that helped me as i looked for 10 mins
I had severe sciatica from my butt to my toes. Awful pain. Couldn't stand or walk for more than 5 to 10 mins without excruciating electrical shooting pain, tingling, numbess, dull ache. A full mixture. Had a diagnosis of a protruding disc around (l4 or l5 , can't remeber). Did the mcgill big and the majority of the exercises they mention during the 7 months of having the sciatica pain. Did nothing, some made it worse. Read about Louie Simmons, followed his specific instruction on how to do a reverse hyper. Did it unloaded on a tall piece of furniture. Walked for 2 hours THE NEXT DAY. Day after that i walked 4 hours. Pain 90% gone. Remaining 10 went over time. I still do the mcgills big 3 now as thst teaching me to brace but it dis nothing to helpy issue. (followed the back mechanic). I didnt t find it difficult to do an unweighted reverse hyper and you'd be pretty stupid to load it to start as you'll get bad pain with too much flexion when it pulls the legs forward..Go a little in the pain and out. Eventually you'll get more flexibility and ROM. You don't need a reverse hyper machine to do a reverse hyper exercise. Also use a lat pull-down with your knees hooked under and put a heavy amount weight on it to pull your arms up, your legs will be locked under the pads and it decompress the spine. Walk around your house, or work, with ankle weights too. Article.on outalpha helped me. Search outalpha sciatica back pain
Wow! Your story sounds just like mine! I spent thousands of dollars seeing a McGill Master Clinician. Did the 3 hour in person assessments and multiple follow ups. Even had a video call with Brian Carroll. I read Back Mechanic and The Gift of Injury. Practiced their rehab program daily for over a year. It did nothing for my pain. Did the McGill Big 3 every day and still in pain. My back hasn't gone out on me since starting the McGill Method over a year ago which is good but I feel like it could happen at anytime with the slightest wrong move. Anyways... I am tired of being in pain. I purchased a Rouge Reverse Hyper Machine. Hopefully this will help me.
@@Yeomannn I have been using the reverse hyper machine now for 3 weeks. I use it three times a week for four sets of 12 reps. Only using 50lbs. It has without a doubt strengthened my entire posterior chain. Especially my lower back. I can pick my kids up without fearing my back going out. I definitely feel it is helping me. The McGill Big 3 did nothing for me.
So i am no body builder. I don't go to a gym. As far as i am concerned, my opinion, the comments, and the two guys in the video are all on the same level. Unless these two guys have a piece of paper from a medical school, they have no more knowledge than me in regards to the health of a spine. Having said that, when i was 13 I severely insured my spine while playing soccer (i am 34 now) and visited a chiropractor for 6 months for this injury. I stopped going after 6 months due to insurance not covering visits, I still have pain from that injury. 2 years ago, my brother dropped a ~35 pound mirror on my head and gave me a concussion and a neck injury - which forced me to go to a chiropractor. Going to this chiropractor for 2 years now, i receive lower back traction every visit. It is the most relieving treatment for my lower back. The reverse hyper appears to be the exact motion of the treatment i receive - the only difference is the weights and my chiropractor pressing on each of my lower back bones while swinging my legs downward - which seems more dangerous than this machine since pressing on my back is limiting motion. I have yet to use the machine, but I can see this machine saving me a lot of money as each chiropractic visit is $50 and i go weekly. If i purchased the machine, i'd likely ONLY put 50 pounds on it to create enough momentum to create a stretch. Anyone care to comment on if this amount of weight would be enough to provide relief? or would more/less be needed? I would not be looking to use the machine in a muscle building way. Thanks,
As a physio and a person who has experienced disc issues, this is a great video. It’s not about being stable during exercise but also with everyday movements. McGill is the boss. Research is king. Obviously you can injure back with flexion loads but also with extension loads if not done carefully or if you don’t have the stability to complete the exercise. The reverse hyper can be risky for these reasons. I’ll admit I have never used the RH and found this video through curiosity about it. Based on my education and research, I think this video is spot on but personal experience is key.... what works for one person won’t always work for everyone.
Just wanna thank everyone that commented in opposition to this video these guys are probably pretty smart just a difference between the reality of things and and what seems right theoretically
yeah i agree with not swinging all the way through into extreme flexion. i have a reverse hyper at home and i basically use the machine with no weights whatsoever, do reps as slow as possible, and stop once i get to 90 degrees (aka i don't "swing all the way through")
so really how i take it, the reverse hyper is not worthless....it's just not a "rehab" tool like some think. it sounds like more of a prehab tool if anything, but mostly it is useful for strengthening all the support muscles.
I have a feeling he hasn't put up a video of lifting cause hes going for a single with 1,105. Videos are awesome gave me motivation to deadlift looking for 700+ at 181 thanks keep the videos coming
Reverse hypers are an incredible tool. The McGill methods and sparing the spine are outstanding. The point that nobody ever talks about is that everyone has individual needs. Some people have a tendency toward either flexion or extension and these individuals have entirely different needs. The flexion/ disc folks are typically the ones that do poorly with reverse hypers. (Even though reverse hypers are great decompression). Over extension patients (bad facet loading/ anterior pelvic tilt) think that reverse hypers are a gift from god. It decompresses the lumbosacral area like nothing else will. Not bird dogs, side planks, or curl ups! That said, spinal sparing/ perfect hinging helps anyone. Categorize, there are no absolutes.
Hi, I have trained abs / lower back with situps, legrise, hyperextrention. And from mid 2023 doing reverse hyper ( no machine just bodyweight ). But never feel it doing so good. Feel strange. Last 16 weeks I have done just bird-dog ( 1 set 10sec / 1 set 25sek ), side plank ( 1 set 10 sec / 1 set 20sec ) and curl up ( one set, 5 curl ups pr side ). I do that every other day before workout. No situps, legrise and hyperextention. My core feels SO good. So happy I tryed the tips from you!! 👍
9 months ago i had debilitating back pain and i always practiced goood neutral sping when lifting anything. then i started doing jefferson curls with under /up to 25lbs for 1-2 sets of 8-10 and backpain decreased 85% -its kind of back now but mostly because i chose to do a ditch digging substation job where we hand dig 8 plus hrs a day for last 6 weeks. ive also had a bulging disc injury during barbell rows of this yr where it just popped despite good form -i had felt this coming on yrs before doin heavy lever squats but quit before anything serious like this happened i find hanging traction for several sets of 15 secs helps alot with pain on spine and also range of motion for shoulders and upper back posture
I think the reverse hyper is making my back worse. I do like 20 reps with two 25s and after I get a dull ache in my lower back around my hip area. Maybe my herniated disc is just too inflamed to be doing this exercise
@@Yeomannn No it was a herniated disc. Had surgery march of 2022. That reverse hyper isn't gonna do a damn thing for a herniated disc. It collects dust in storage now.
@@smokestrong1000you should dust it off and be doing it with proper form along with a lot of glute work for prevention. Just because it didn’t cure an issue that needed surgery doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have value as a strengthening tool for the muscles around the spine.
I've been doing all these excerises for years every since I got a disc herniation 10 years ago. Helps alot so doing building up the glutes. Like bridges and hip thrusts
This whole video just sounds soooooo archaic. Ive never seen "stir the pot" in any strength athlete's routine, but they routinely do weight standing planks and crunches. Why not mention that? I'm sure "stirring the pot" isn't useless but wtf
responding to an old video saying its archaic ROFL.... well yeah,,, Filmied this a long time ago and was speaking to what was going on in the industry at that time. - chris
@@7THxSIGN yes, jumping motorcycles over 90’ ft. Over jumping landing ramp. Did the damage. Then doing a 500 pound squat on 42nd birthday 3 days later.
You've got a few books. Which one do you recommend for a disk bulge? L4/L5 L5/S1. Massive fan. Got recommended by a power lifter long time ago. World of knowledge. Bless you guys man. Applied the squat and deadlift how to guides. Lifts feel a lot better and stronger. Stupid muay thai and the rotation got me lol
I'm about to start trying it today actually because I mentor under Charles poliquin I've taken courses with him and him and Matt Wenning who work together have put out some videos recently and he single-handedly says this is the best machine to use I don't know if you should be using it directly after the injury but once you have strengthen your core a bit it definitely
thanks guys . very encouraging. I got taken into hospital 2 nights ago and given 10 mg of morphine for my herniated discs 1-2 and 2-3 lumbar , because tramadol and cocodamol wasnt even working!. I have been so worried that his would be a life sentence. i am going to use these tips and rehab my back (away from the gym ) for the next 6 weeks. Thanks.
This is all anecdotal but I injured my back and started doing reverse hypers. Like Chris said it felt good doing it but afterwards I did not feel it made any difference to my back. I healed my back by strengthening my core (planks, bird-dog) and high rep back squats. I am prone to back injury as I am 6'1 but whenever I've tweaked my back it was because of bad form. Right now my back is fucked from pushing weights and not giving enough rest time for healing. Right now, I am massaging my back, and will slowly start to build it with high rep pulling exercises. I also did reverse hypers when i was not injured, but I preferred deadlifts and squats over it. Again this is all anecdotal so don't get butt hurt RH fanboys.
I did it last night my back but after that I felt really good. Deadlifts not good for back who has disc herniation I went from deadlift 345 to barely deadlifting 95lbs. I did reverse hyper and back felt really good. How I gauge things is how I feel in the morning. If back is sore in the morning then I fucked up.
Damn this is good. I'm in rehab for a herniated L5/S1 and L3/4. I wish I stumbled upon this video earlier. I'm only 33 so I really hope this is not a life sentence. I'm going to incorporate all your recommended exercises in my daily routine, because I've had my doubts about reverse hyperextension; the risks just outweigh the benefits. Many thanks to the both of you!
@@timshufflebottom828 he probably had surgery. Reverse hypers will only cause worse pain for a disc issue. It is great for muscles, not the discs though. I had a disc bulge at L4/L5 and the reverse hyper machine made my pain worse.
@@cryptocaesar8972 there is more to a disc herniation than just compression. Everyone is different and every injury is as well. I tried the reverse hypertension in hope that it would aid in my recovery from my L4/L5 disc bulge. However, unfortunately it made my pain worse. Speaking to a sport rehab specialist recently, he believes I may have been moving too far into extension with it. I may revisit it and see how it helps without moving up into extension all the way. The issue many of its critics have with it is the pressure at the bottom of the movement. Although it can be argued there isn’t load due to the design of the machine. That being said, I spent thousands of dollars seeing a McGill Master Clinician. Did the 3 hour in person assessments and multiple follow ups. Even had a video call with Brian Carroll. I read Back Mechanic and The Gift of Injury. Practiced their rehab program daily for over a year. It did nothing for my pain. Did the McGill Big 3 everyday. In fact, the bird dog made my pain worse. Your only hope for getting plain free is time and not re-injuring it. Could take a year. Could take a decade. It’s possible it wlll never get better as well. That’s where surgery comes in. Disc once injured are NEVER the same. Don’t believe all this BS RUclips “consultation” experts. They just want your money.
Bought one off Kijji. I have sciatica and degenerative disk disease due to an accident . Best $50.00 I ever spent..relieves my pain . I love it. No weights or light weight only. I'm no weight lifter just a gal in physio. I'd definitely recommend it when a physio therapist recommends it and shows proper form.
i have scoliosis in my lower back and used to had a job where i had to stand for hours. with 27 my loweer back was kind of worn down. now i work in a warehouse and lift around 3x/week. just doing compound lifts and i skip the reverse hyper because my stomach dont like it. now i am almost painfree and are stronger than ever.
I did inversion table and sometimes it still hurts my lower back l5 s1 bulging disc... will reverse hyper still help me or will it cause damage to the area
Fantastic informative video! While most gym goers would scroll straight past this video while looking for the cool lifting clips, this should be compulsory viewing for anyone who is serious about lifting and coaching! I love these videos!
With all due respect Mr Duffin I tore 3 inches off my erectors muscles and had the blessing of having a reversehyper in my gym. Moments after the injury I was able to use the reversehyper and it was "HUGE" in my rehab. In fact I believe that it was instrumental in my national championship that I took three weeks later. For this reason I am a great example of the healing ability of the reverse hyper and I have a few more examples that without a doubt the reversehyper has kept me lifting. I have one of your shoulderok and I have had alot of people try to bash or talk negative about it and just like the reversehyper I tell them it works. I appreciate what you do but here's a word of advice having respect for those that came before you and that paved the way is a key to our sport. To be blunt about it real men are never passive- aggressive or back stabbers and(not that it matters but) to be honest you have disappointed me bro. I'll keep you in my prayers and you will take this into consideration before you regarded someone elses product. God bless, keep lifting up not tearing down.
Your injury is very unique. The vast majority of back injuries are disc related. The reverse hyper is horrendous for the discs. Chris isn't the first to say this, Dr. Stu McGill has been against the reverse hyper for a long time. The RH is clearly an effective exercise for strengthening the erectors, which is probably why it would help rehab an erector injury. But still, the risk to the discs is high and there are other ways to strengthen the erectors.
Stacy Williams I realize many people swear by it but that doesn't change the fact that the leading research shows it can be harmful. A lot of people swear by chiropractors as well. I herniated my l5-s1, I couldn't pick up a pencil without nerve pain for an entire year. I did reverse hypers, I went to chiropractor and things only got worse. It wasn't until I did the research based protocols of Stu McGill and Dr. McKenzie that I started getting better. Just my 2 cents. I'm now also hitting big PR's in the gym.
Lance you need to listen to Chris AND Brian again - they're not saying that the reverse hyper is not a good tool. They're saying during spinal rehab that spine flexion may not be a good thing.
Edwin G. If you will read the bible as I assume you are referencing you can find in 2Peter 3:8 "A day with the Lord is as a thousand years" so God created the earth in 6000 years and He rested on the seventh but what does that have to do with our subject I'm sure you will have an answer.
when doin a mckenzie press up is it wise or helpful to try initiating the movement with spinal erectors and finish with arms assisting last half of motion?
THANK YOU! slipped a disc, L4-L5, and it was excruciating! there would be no way I would do a reverse hyper. maybe after fully healing and strengthening first. Superman's helped me.
Been on a roller-coaster for 4 years. Don't remember the exact term but I think i had a central right disc protrusion on my L4,L5. Not working at the moment, so I hope this can help me.
Hi Chris. I've been watching your videos and reading you articles for a while now, and I just wanted to ask you about an issue I'm having with my spinal erectors. I've noticed when I deadlift or squat only one of my erectors gets sore. When I touch that erector it feels really tense and it's also larger than the other erector. Do you have any advice for what I should do for my imbalanced erectors? Thank you.
It's your form, you're likely tucking one side of your pelvis, but not the other. My advice is drop the weight and work on your form more, being careful to take note of where your feet are and how your pelvis is positioned. It would help if you got someone who know's what a deadlift is supposed to actually look like to watch you lifting a decent amount of weight to see what you are doing... Not some 315lb lifter, someone that is on their way to 5 plates or more. 315 is easy even with poor form.... I had a similar issue after a major injury, only one side would activate, and because my injury was primarily torn nerves, I couldn't tell myself how bad one side of my body was just by looking at it in the mirror. I had to go find a coach to get my form sorted properly. Now I'm good, but it took about 6 months of work to fix the problem. Nerves take a lot longer to grow...
So i love brazilian jujitsu but grappling wreaks havoc on your spine. I have heard the reverse hyper is great for lower back strength and decompression. Is that true? I understand what you said about using it to treat a disk injury which is counter productive
Well I’m reporting back after 2 months since purchasing the RH-2 Rouge Reverse Hyper Machine. I can honestly say this damn machine is definitely helping me!
Over a year of doing the McGill Method and seeing a McGill Master Clinician did nothing in addressing my lower back pain caused by a L5 disc bulge.
Only two months of using this machine three times a week I am already beginning to have days of no pain and my back is feeling stronger as my confidence in my backs integrity returns.
So damn glad I took a chance on this machine and ignored what these two said in this video.
A couple things I would recommend to someone looking to purchase it for back rehab. Do not overload the weight. Rather start with no weight and slowly build your way up. The other thing is do not swing your legs under the table. Do not over arch your back at the top of the movement. Lastly, be in full control of the weight throughout the movement, squeeze your gluts at the top of the movement.
Following these steps has truly helped in my back rehab when absolutely everything else failed.
Thanks for posting this. I am looking to get one soon. These guys advice may help some but the McGill method and moving like a robot to avoid spinal flexion did absolutely nothing for me
@@gioestrada4652well said brother. I completely agree!
Great comment! Thanks for your perspective.
How have you been using it? What rep range on your 3 days a week?
Scott
One thing I've never seen as part of the debate or from the pro-reverse hyper camp is: blood flow. When I had a herniated L4-L5, the owner of my gym had me doing them for that sole reason. Blood flow = healing.
Extremely underrated
Blood flow is great but if you’re aggravating the issue in the same pattern that you hurt it, that is not good!
@@NateStout1Yes but if you do it in a way that not aggravates pain, thats the way to go!
The spine has no blood supply
And erections!
I’m not a chiropractor or a physiotherapist but I was getting crippled with back pain and would walk around like a hedgehog. Working with a reverse hyper was a major reason along with work on hip mobility and strengthening my core that has led to me no longer having pain or discomfort.
Reverse hyper got my back healed when nothing else worked and it worked god damn fast as hell. Now I do them every session and my lower back is stronger than ever and feeling fantastic. Cannot say anything bad about the movement / apparatus.
Jesse R Can you twist or look Tos someone behind you by turning your back without experiencing Pain In knees or legs?
Jesse R hey man, did you have a herniated disc prior to using the machine?
did you do it on a machine or with free weights?:)
List of exercises mentioned
Hanging from a pullup bar
McGills's Big Three: 1 Bird dog, 2 Side plank, 3 Curl up
Stir the pot
Rolling side plank
The cat camel
Mckenzie press up
The dead bug
Thank you Chris
Kim Lundgren you da man 👍👍
thanks bro
12:06
its cool but i don't see why throw the mackenzie press up in there since it's counter indicated for lower back problems.
Lol. Dead bugs don’t move. That’s what I tell my patients. I call it dying bug. 😉
This is the third video I've watched that the presenters say that the reverse hyper isn't rehabilitative yet you go to the comments on every one and there are scores of stories of of being just that.
I've been lifting straight for 30 years (100% natural). My back was in bad shape, every 6 months getting bad, shooting pain for weeks. Since finding the reverse hyper I never get back pain like that anymore. Never.
Same here! It's been working for me.
Same here, I've been using the principles of reverse hyper for more then 5 years and it has removed all the severe lower-back pain I had before. Reverse hypers can be very efficient dealing with lower-back pain if you can get someone to instruct / teach you how to use it right.
How long before you saw results.
@@semyaza555 For me it was 2 sessions/max 1 week. YMMV.
Vivek Sood how how many reps do you usually do?
"It's not a life sentence" love that reassurance. Thanks a lot guys, really appreciated this.
I've had stenosis of the lower lumbar for over 14 years. I've had physical therapy and chiropractic care and nothing worked. The same day of using my reverse hyper, my paid feels like it disappeared. Everybody has an opinion, but I'm vouching for the reverse hyper.
I know this is an old video but I needed to hear “it’s not a life sentence” That statement got me out of my own head. THANK YOU!!
Hang in there, it's slow but does get better :) Try alternating things you do if it takes several months. For example, for me, quitting chins and rows made a significant impact on healing.
Nigga it is
I herniated a disc 9/21/22. I just set a PR back squat last weekend.
It is a life sentence in that the disc will always be a liability and your ability to move is forever changed.
Basically the reverse hyper will work for some people at certain times and what these guys are advising will work for some people at certain times as well.You need to try as many different methods as possible until you find what works for you.
Reverse hyper machine has been a godsend for me. I disagree with this video completely. I have dealt with bulging discs at L5 and S1 for a decade.
What machine did you use? I had surgery on L5S1 10 years ago and always in pain. Was going to buy the reverse hyper from west side barbel.
@@David-dw2iq I bought the one from Titan Fitness.
@@bp516 I’ve never used one before and was going to use the scout hyper by rogue as an entry point. Cause between spending $600 and not being able to walk lol
@@David-dw2iq i linked the titan one I bought but they removed the link. I paid 399. If you send me your email I can send pics. Its been a life changer for my back issues.
Doesn't help my back at all and it makes it worse I think. The fact that when it swings it puts my back in a position where it's rounded makes it worse I think. Idk I have atleast two herniated discs my s1 l5 for sure and it hasn't helped my back one bit
I get your point that this isn't for everyone, especially people with hyperlordosis. But with that said, MOST people are hypolordotic (flexor dominant) and need more exercises like this. Also, if this machine is providing traction, that can cause the herniation to improve due to negative pressure inside the disc space. When you are flexor dominant, by the way, more weight is on your vertebral bodies vs facets, which is not a good situation for the discs.
Ok, I have 2 bulging discs in a misaligned vertebra in my lower. I've been dealing with lower back pain for over a year I've done chiropractic physical therapy none of it helped that much. so I took a chance and bought a reverse hyper from rogue for $1300 with the optional ankle roller. It's been a full week and it's nothing short of amazing. My pain has decreased by 85% in just 5 days. I just wanted to let people know my results from a reverse hyper.
Sean - appreciate you sharing your experience with - just ordered the much cheaper Titan version
Jay A. I just ordered mine today too. Messed up my lower back deadlifting and don’t see the point of getting jerked around by doctors. I’m trying to cure and strengthen the root cause of back pain not slap a bandaid on it .i am very hopeful for good results
Sean what kind of weight if any are you using
@@timhouston8871 come on man....... enough to hurt him... duh
how's it going now
The problem with their argument is that there is no overhead load while flexing or rounding. That's why it's safe compared to rounding the back when squatting. I'm confused why they kept saying "under load" there is no load over your back!
there doesn't have to be weights to have a low back under load. bone cannot move without muscle, so poor posture habits that put excess stress on one muscle when it should be evenly dispersed to the group of muscles that cause the action, would be an example of load. our muscles are designed to evenly carry and move our bodies, for every flex there is a lengthening, when one remains flexed too long and often, the other stretches further and further to compensate its counter partner. then you end in an imbalance that can cause literally tons of problems
I agree with what you say but I am talking in reference to the common problem of rounding the lower back when doing squats with weights vs. rounding the lower back purposely for stretching those lower back muscles and allowing blood to flow to the disks of the lower spine. It was my understanding that the reverse hyper is good for disk issues because it allows that area to flex without being under an overhead stress. But I agree that we should not allow our backs to round for everyday posture as that will lead to issues.
I see what you mean.
Imageword, I agree. There is a massive difference between compressive stress and tensile stress.
Imageword there might not be as much compressive force, but the flexion force/tensile force during the eccentric is still very significant, especially if lumbar is flexed beyond anatomical position.
The reverse hyper was (and still is) the very thing that enabled me to get back to doing deadlifts and squats after I injured my lower back.
I was lucky enough to get someone to teach me exactly how to use it and how (when done right) it will stretch and strengthen your lower back at the same time.
Any help or link to a video on how to do them correctly?
Hey how did u do it
I spent years doing the mcgill stuff i tried the hip airplane the 90/90 breathing to pretty much zero effect im now 6 months into twice weekly with standing abs before and after squats and my back is the strongest and healthiest its ever been, no more pain down my legs no more tingling in my feet. The reverse hyper works
Standing abs?
@@blickluke yes training your abbs from a standing position, to mimic how you would use them in real life
@@Jake_maguire1990 what sort of exercises do you do for standing abs?
@@benbbuxton i do standing cable Abbs, however there's no spinal flexion abbs are contracted isometric and movement comes at the hips. I use different stances different rep ranges. I always put emphasis on standing all th way up and squeezing the glutes this is very very important because it allows the hip flexors to fully lengthen and be trained from the longest to shortest position and this in itself will releive a ton of back issues. Also when doing this exercise you must root yourself as if doing a squat or deadlift make sure you are activating everything in the lower body i squeeze the floor and torque my hips, you can also practice deep belly breathing while you perform this for added intensity
Thank you for that detail, do you have any exercise names or motions you'd specifically do with the cables
My 2c on RH: to quote McGill himself "it depends". I believe the reverse hyper can be part of the latter stages of rehab for several low back injuries depending on the history and symptoms of the patient. A big problem with it IMO is that the "form" with which people perform it combined with differences in people's anatomy (in particular their ability to posteriorly tilt the pelvis rather than flex at the spine) is that it's almost impossible to recommend it in a rehabilitation setting unless you can directly supervise the patient performing them
yes I agree with you - having used the reverse hyper machine to rehab my back, I would say that if you don't have someone to teach you the correct form, then you shouldn't use it at all.
My chronic low back pain was fixed doing reverse hypers in flat 2/4 sessions. It was like magic!
Sure it was mate
I’m not cosigning your hocus pocus, pal.
made mine worse
Same thing can be said for the McGill Method. I spent thousands of dollars seeing a McGill Master Clinician. Did the 3 hour in person assessments and multiple follow ups. Even had a video call with Brian Carroll. I read Back Mechanic and The Gift of Injury. Practiced their rehab program daily for over a year. It did nothing for my pain. Did the McGill Big 3 every day. Everybody's injury is different. The reverse hyper may not help some, but for others it may be the answer to years of debleating back pain.
I agree that the reverse hyper doesn't make my back feel that much better. I think the Stuart McGill approach makes the most sense. Strengthen the muscles the way they were meant to be engaged; without any flexion. But what I don't understand is why in this video they're describing the reverse hyper as flexion under load. Its flexion, but the spine isnt loaded with compression.
I’ve been doing McGill and paying a McGill expert for over a year. No change in my pain. Still in pain 24/7.
As a 55 year old powerlifter for most of my life, squat only now, my bottom disc was gone at age 30 and I thought I was done. I saw some guys doing hyper extensions at the gym and tried them and the decompression immediately felt good, so I stayed with them. Hanging from a pullup bar, hanging from the hyper bench after doing a set, especially while holding a weight,
and hanging upside down on my inversion table keep me going. Chiropractic is all important, as is deep tissue massage therapy. Start doing all of this before you have back trouble and you should stay pain free when you get old like me. Mr. Duffin's videos are inspiring, and the information he shares is invaluable. I'm thankful we have him sharing. Jim Edgerton
Hahahah everyone in the comments telling him it works. People who trash the reverse hyper.. normally don’t do them right and don’t do them often. If you lift.. do them. If your hurt, do bodyweight reverse hypers! It’s the decompression of the spine that heals people. The proof is in thousands of people’s results. I can’t stand people, especially people who have a foot in the equipment making/selling game, trying to trash other equipment. Don’t be fooled people, there’s always an agenda whether someone will admit it or not. Like the fact that I’m clearly biased towards this..
And they plugged their website that's $10 a month. Clever strategy to psychologically dominate the market and have people buy into your product.
@@Isaiah-ft5nx Exactly right. These men are salesmen putting down one product to steer you towards theirs. Classic conman trick.
05:47 My bulging disc was the best thing that happened to my lifting. It taught me how to properly train and helped me improve my posture.
Are you still active? Have some questions
Thank you man, I appreciate the honest insight. I just bought a reverse hyper and I have been using it, making sure to start light and work on my form. I will definitely add the other exercises to my routine.
Louie Simmons broke his back multiple times (snapped it up, whatever technically happened) and repaired it enough with reverse hypers that he can still do just about any excercise on the planet, including deadlifts.
So, you guys are either very misinformed about reverse hypers, or you're claiming that Louie is full of crap about reverse hypers.
Push Through The Wall Louie Simmons was a salesman who sold books and products, sorry but that’s what he was
@@jackandrews7878 That’s how everyone is including Kabuki strength. Doesn’t mean the products don’t work.
@@jackandrews7878 yup, so is Brian Carroll and Dr. Stuart McGill. What's your point?
A chiropractors table is essentially a reverse hyper extension with a reduced range of motion. First thing a chiro will do is pull your legs to decompress your spine. Pop your back and then do short range of motion reverse hypers to move fluid through your vertebrae. A chiro will tell you to keep moving as well. Walk.
This is so damn true and you are the first to mention it.
There's no strengthening of your muscles which makes stretching useless. Without strengthening your muscles all that stretching does is rip apart ligaments
Ok so with all the shit in this video what he's actually saying is don't swing too high on a reverse hyper which will hyper extend your back, which Louie has said when he coaches the reverse hyper im not really sure what they're getting at I wish they would just coach everyone up on how to fix your back
I think they’re getting at the issue with coaching the skills to use the reverse hyper properly. Skills such as controlling pelvis position and core bracing are difficult to master, and without constant supervision, makes utilizing the reverse hyper very easy to screw up. So I believe Duffin is saying it’s better to teach those skills to help someone rehab their back, rather than tell them to go do a bunch of reverse hypers because Louie said so
@@gdidden220 No , he's jealous !
Reverse hypers make my low back feel so good. So do hip thrusts. I started these due to being prone to back and hip injuries from deadlifts and squats, haven't had injuries since. I'm not sure how you would do this wrong if you have any body awareness, at least not on the machine we have. Core tight, flat back, lift with your glutes/hammies, not your back, don't go past your available ROM. If your core is tight, there shouldn't be any flexion. I've never been coached in person but I do learn a ton about form and technique thanks to RUclips and I always pay close attention to my body.
As pointed out by many people below, their argument is flawed at multiple points. Reverse hypers are great for many people, flexion is not harmful for many people, and is not the root cause of a lot of disc injuries.
I had 2 bulging discs in my l4 and l5 and I built a homemade reverse hyper table and it fixed my back pain in 2 weeks where 3 months of 2x a week physical therapy couldn't. The other thing that helped tremendously was dry needling from my physical therapist. Reverse hyped + dry needling was a miracle cure
I love dry needling! Wish it was more readily available. In FL chiropractors are fighting against PT doing this therapy.
Is dry needing similar to acupuncture
@Dee Pee ok are u talking bout the reversed hyper or dry needing
How long did it take for you to heal?
@@MisterWealth about 4 years total. I still have small flare ups from time to time but I live a normal life 99% of the time
McGill's Big 3 have done nothing for me, doing them daily for over 3 years.
Have you done them right and what did you expect to get out of them? have you done any other intervention when it comes to training and life to get you closer to your goal? Excersises are merely tools facilitating you reaching you'r goals. You can not expect a hammer to build a house by itself.
You might not be doing them right... I learned a bit later that you have to put a LOT of effort into each hold... These aren't like standard planks, you need to exert full effort the entire time. Doing bird dog should make you want to die once you're done 3 sets of them, with your transverse abdominis on fire
@@spuppy852 How do you make them harder..... move volume , longer holds, bands ?
@@ryantmorgan91 It's about putting out 100% effort during the 10 second hold. Kick WAY back with the leg, flex glutes and hams, Push WAY forward with your arm, make a fist and flex shoulder and triceps. Flex abs entire time, push into ground with grounded limbs, and think about squeezing them together while keeping them planted on the ground. You should be shaking and sweating very quickly
Check Layne Norton's video with Dr. McGill, where the Dr corrects his Bird Dog form. This is what led to my understanding of it, hearing it from the man himself instead of other youtubers. ruclips.net/video/syKKv3sQ4O8/видео.html
I’m with you. I have been doing the McGill Method after reading his book and also hired a McGill Master Clinician (not cheap) for the past year. It has done nothing for my lower back pain and disc bulge. :(
can you show us how to rehab the lower back or how to use the reverse hyper correctly?
Just don't hyperextend, your feet has to be under your ''ass'' all the time. And it will definitely develop a strong low back, while working on your gluteus maximus and hamstrings!
My reverse hyper forced me to walk more correctly, I feel stronger 6 months later.
Not a very good argument against the reverse hyper, compared to the testimonials supporting it. Many rehab centers use it.
Hey ,brother! Heres why its not such a great exercise ,Tattooed: If a person is using the reverse hyper and has the common back injury that people USE it for (Posterior L4-L5 herniation OR L5-S1 herniation),Then it will actually make it worse. NOT better. This is exactly what happens when you go into the forced loaded hip flexion and back extension of the reverse hyper. it actually will cause the leaked intervertebral fluid to compress the area even further by pressurizing it from the anterior squeezed (hip flexed) side of the disc. Think of it like this: If i grab a hamburger and squeeze it hard on one side with one hand, then the ketchup will leak out towards the side OPPOSITE of the compressed (squeezed) side. at the lowest part of the hyper, this is precisely what is occurring.
Saints of Marfa, I was thinking that it probably depends on the type of injury you have. I'm not as technical as I probably should be but depending on where a bulged disc may be, bending forward may help one person while making another person worse. That's the same with leaning back. I had a two-level fusion at L4-L5-S1. I've never had physical surgery and I'm in pretty bad shape, which is why I'm here looking for solutions. But I'm guessing it all depends on one's specific injury.
You have no idea how i felt when i heard you say IT'S NOT A LIFE SENTENCE.
Thank you, i had a back surgery because sciatica was killing me, every thing is fine now but i wonder my self if would be able to squat again the way i use to. May be not, but at least enjoy the gym once again.
What i want to say is Thank you! Feels like the faith is back.
Thanks for sharing and for helping. God bless you guys.
Fuck that bro I'm just wondering if I'm gon be able to sleep on the side and back. I'm 20 and I feel like a vegetable
I used to have my back go out a lot.
I tried banded reverse hypers for my back, only made it worse.
Stu McGill’s big 3 was the fix.
No more chiropractors. No more weeks of being crippled.
Wish it was for me. I’m seeing a McGill Master Clinician (which isn’t cheap) and still suffering. Going on a year of daily pain even with the McGill approach.
Well, guess what - you can make a night and day difference in your back pain doing simple, very simple exercises and practicing very simple habits. What I'm saying has to do with reverse hypers and more. I completely fixed my lower back pain that killed me for 20+ years doing extremely controlled deadlifts, stretches, and addressing my balance at all times of both the day and night - while sitting, walking, driving, sleeping (literally when sleeping - simply put there are proper ways to lay down and you must change positions into proper positions through the night). At one point I had developed a mild sciatica and also some nerve issue in the other knee causing knee pain and cramping of the calf and inability to climb stairs for too long. That is all gone now. 100% gone. The X-rays of my lower back will make you cringe - that is how I started and I already generally explained how I fixed the problem.
Looking back I agree - the techniques and practices I used will indeed look super simple to someone looking at me from the side. Same thing with reverse hypers - they look like anybody can do them properly. But that is not the whole story, not at all. It is probably like the misleading ease with which an Olympic lifter lifts a barbel but when you try you see you see how much goes into it and it is not mindful control at all times, not at all. Some things I did looked totally ridiculous - a 260 lbs man carefully deadlifting 185 lbs paying attention to every 1/2" of the barbell movement is a joke to everybody. But not to me - it as the main thing that fixed my back.
The important point is that you must pay attention on HOW you perform the movement, not the start and end point. And establish the proper movement pattern so you do it without thinking about it. I now believe that most people move around in extremely improper ways. The same joint movement can be done in a variety of ways and only some of them or even a single one is the proper way. I can see how a reverse hyper works the exact same way - the movement seems a no-brainer but to be effective the muscles must use the proper moving pattern. The same thing can be said for learning to deadlift by watching RUclips videos. If you do not have the proper movement pattern down you will struggle and have a hard time understanding why all the good advice you got off watching hundreds of deadlift videos meant to teach you to deadlift just don't seem to work. It is because your body has learned wrong movement patterns. Once that is fixed it all changes completely.
And with that I can also say that IF you really, really want to fix your back and not get under the surgeon's knife you WILL learn the fine points yourself. Meaning - you can learn to reverse hyper properly without an expert. Same for deadlift for fixing low back problems and other such exercises/practices. It is all you. Really.
thank you for sharing but one question.... what was causing your lower back pain? Was it a disc bulge/herniation?
As Chris was trying to build negativity towards the reverse hyper and the other guy on the right said “yeah or hyper extension that immediately told me he doesn’t understand a reverse hyper extension mechanism, and how it differs from a hyper.
“Injuries caused by flexion under load” “I’d rather not spend the time training people to use a reverse hyper extension correctly I’d rather teach people to squat or deadlift “ are you kidding me?
The key difference between a reverse hyper and all the other is that there is no sheering force on the vertebrae that’s how it heals. Regular hyper sand the squats and dead’s all cause sheering. This video is wrong !
barnetthejosh noticed the exact same thing. The first thing you’re told is not to hyperextend. You stop at 90 degrees.
it's not loaded flexion, the spine is stablized on the table
I just noticed that Chris duffin has the “crazy eyes”
too much PEDS
Opiate eyes
You have to love the comments here. 99% of them are saying the reverse hyper saved their back which is real world experience compared to these guys theorizing on why it won't work.
In my opinion the extensor strengthening you get from something like a roman chair is better than the reverse hyper. Managing a heavy load by flexing the trunk instead of the legs (with extra weight) feels like a much more natural movement pattern (feels like pelvic tilt needs to be resisted on the reverse hyper but comes easy on Roman chair) and easier to not mess up the form. On top of that you begin in the extended position which is much more conducive to isometrics which is where you should begin anyways. Isometrics always number one for lower back injuries everything else comes after that.
i had a herniated disc and was back in the gym within two days because i figured out what caused it. i was deadlifting with narrow feet being a tall guy this over the years rotated my pelvis and even some yt coaches say thats fine. i did everything seated for a month and did hangs from the pull up bar to relieve the pressure. what fixed it for me was three things stretching the tight hip flexors then strengthening the abs with very heavy weight and finally switching my stance on squats and deadlifts to a wide stance which i feel no back at all. and the weird thing at the time could not squat down cause of the pain but i could lunge and not feel a thing so thats what i did for a month with just leg extensions too. once the sciatica went down and my mobility increased in the hips i was fine but did not deadlift for a few months to let the little last nagging bits heal.
How did you do weighted ab exercises without spinal flexion? I'm in the same boat
same question as toao72
TheOneAndOnly72 i did yoga exercises for a little while trying to loosen up all the tightness over my whole body. then i went on one of those abs machines but only bent forward a bit with light weight first and dont got to far back as this will hyper extend the spine. do these stretches Piriformis Stretch, pigeon pose, laying ham stretch, and reclined twist hold each for a min for 2 rounds and some you have to do both sides. this helped me loads sometimes it was a bit uncomfortable so go slow and i was taking cocodamol to get on with it which is not good to take for too many days. just google the stretches cause i cant find the article that helped me as i looked for 10 mins
I had severe sciatica from my butt to my toes. Awful pain. Couldn't stand or walk for more than 5 to 10 mins without excruciating electrical shooting pain, tingling, numbess, dull ache. A full mixture. Had a diagnosis of a protruding disc around (l4 or l5 , can't remeber). Did the mcgill big and the majority of the exercises they mention during the 7 months of having the sciatica pain. Did nothing, some made it worse. Read about Louie Simmons, followed his specific instruction on how to do a reverse hyper. Did it unloaded on a tall piece of furniture. Walked for 2 hours THE NEXT DAY. Day after that i walked 4 hours. Pain 90% gone. Remaining 10 went over time.
I still do the mcgills big 3 now as thst teaching me to brace but it dis nothing to helpy issue. (followed the back mechanic).
I didnt t find it difficult to do an unweighted reverse hyper and you'd be pretty stupid to load it to start as you'll get bad pain with too much flexion when it pulls the legs forward..Go a little in the pain and out. Eventually you'll get more flexibility and ROM. You don't need a reverse hyper machine to do a reverse hyper exercise.
Also use a lat pull-down with your knees hooked under and put a heavy amount weight on it to pull your arms up, your legs will be locked under the pads and it decompress the spine. Walk around your house, or work, with ankle weights too. Article.on outalpha helped me. Search outalpha sciatica back pain
Wow! Your story sounds just like mine! I spent thousands of dollars seeing a McGill Master Clinician. Did the 3 hour in person assessments and multiple follow ups. Even had a video call with Brian Carroll. I read Back Mechanic and The Gift of Injury. Practiced their rehab program daily for over a year. It did nothing for my pain. Did the McGill Big 3 every day and still in pain. My back hasn't gone out on me since starting the McGill Method over a year ago which is good but I feel like it could happen at anytime with the slightest wrong move.
Anyways... I am tired of being in pain. I purchased a Rouge Reverse Hyper Machine. Hopefully this will help me.
@@7THxSIGN How has the reverse hyper been so far?
@@Yeomannn I have been using the reverse hyper machine now for 3 weeks. I use it three times a week for four sets of 12 reps. Only using 50lbs.
It has without a doubt strengthened my entire posterior chain. Especially my lower back. I can pick my kids up without fearing my back going out.
I definitely feel it is helping me. The McGill Big 3 did nothing for me.
So i am no body builder. I don't go to a gym. As far as i am concerned, my opinion, the comments, and the two guys in the video are all on the same level. Unless these two guys have a piece of paper from a medical school, they have no more knowledge than me in regards to the health of a spine. Having said that, when i was 13 I severely insured my spine while playing soccer (i am 34 now) and visited a chiropractor for 6 months for this injury. I stopped going after 6 months due to insurance not covering visits, I still have pain from that injury. 2 years ago, my brother dropped a ~35 pound mirror on my head and gave me a concussion and a neck injury - which forced me to go to a chiropractor. Going to this chiropractor for 2 years now, i receive lower back traction every visit. It is the most relieving treatment for my lower back. The reverse hyper appears to be the exact motion of the treatment i receive - the only difference is the weights and my chiropractor pressing on each of my lower back bones while swinging my legs downward - which seems more dangerous than this machine since pressing on my back is limiting motion. I have yet to use the machine, but I can see this machine saving me a lot of money as each chiropractic visit is $50 and i go weekly. If i purchased the machine, i'd likely ONLY put 50 pounds on it to create enough momentum to create a stretch. Anyone care to comment on if this amount of weight would be enough to provide relief? or would more/less be needed? I would not be looking to use the machine in a muscle building way. Thanks,
As a physio and a person who has experienced disc issues, this is a great video. It’s not about being stable during exercise but also with everyday movements. McGill is the boss. Research is king. Obviously you can injure back with flexion loads but also with extension loads if not done carefully or if you don’t have the stability to complete the exercise. The reverse hyper can be risky for these reasons. I’ll admit I have never used the RH and found this video through curiosity about it. Based on my education and research, I think this video is spot on but personal experience is key.... what works for one person won’t always work for everyone.
Just wanna thank everyone that commented in opposition to this video these guys are probably pretty smart just a difference between the reality of things and and what seems right theoretically
yeah i agree with not swinging all the way through into extreme flexion. i have a reverse hyper at home and i basically use the machine with no weights whatsoever, do reps as slow as possible, and stop once i get to 90 degrees (aka i don't "swing all the way through")
I got back pain, I've tried the reverse hyper, I get a wired on and off effect. For 2 min I'll feel good, and then later ill get pain.
so really how i take it, the reverse hyper is not worthless....it's just not a "rehab" tool like some think. it sounds like more of a prehab tool if anything, but mostly it is useful for strengthening all the support muscles.
I have a feeling he hasn't put up a video of lifting cause hes going for a single with 1,105. Videos are awesome gave me motivation to deadlift looking for 700+ at 181 thanks keep the videos coming
Oh shit... this is gonna be inflammatory
haHAA
Reverse hypers are an incredible tool. The McGill methods and sparing the spine are outstanding. The point that nobody ever talks about is that everyone has individual needs. Some people have a tendency toward either flexion or extension and these individuals have entirely different needs.
The flexion/ disc folks are typically the ones that do poorly with reverse hypers. (Even though reverse hypers are great decompression).
Over extension patients (bad facet loading/ anterior pelvic tilt) think that reverse hypers are a gift from god. It decompresses the lumbosacral area like nothing else will. Not bird dogs, side planks, or curl ups!
That said, spinal sparing/ perfect hinging helps anyone.
Categorize, there are no absolutes.
Great response - chris
Hi, I have trained abs / lower back with situps, legrise, hyperextrention. And from mid 2023 doing reverse hyper ( no machine just bodyweight ). But never feel it doing so good. Feel strange. Last 16 weeks I have done just bird-dog ( 1 set 10sec / 1 set 25sek ), side plank ( 1 set 10 sec / 1 set 20sec ) and curl up ( one set, 5 curl ups pr side ). I do that every other day before workout. No situps, legrise and hyperextention. My core feels SO good. So happy I tryed the tips from you!! 👍
thanks for listening - Chris
9 months ago i had debilitating back pain and i always practiced goood neutral sping when lifting anything.
then i started doing jefferson curls with under /up to 25lbs for 1-2 sets of 8-10 and backpain decreased 85%
-its kind of back now but mostly because i chose to do a ditch digging substation job where we hand dig 8 plus hrs a day for last 6 weeks.
ive also had a bulging disc injury during barbell rows of this yr where it just popped despite good form
-i had felt this coming on yrs before doin heavy lever squats but quit before anything serious like this happened
i find hanging traction for several sets of 15 secs helps alot with pain on spine and also range of motion for shoulders and upper back posture
I think the reverse hyper is making my back worse. I do like 20 reps with two 25s and after I get a dull ache in my lower back around my hip area. Maybe my herniated disc is just too inflamed to be doing this exercise
Dull ache? That sounds like muscle soreness?
@@Yeomannn No it was a herniated disc. Had surgery march of 2022. That reverse hyper isn't gonna do a damn thing for a herniated disc. It collects dust in storage now.
@@smokestrong1000you should dust it off and be doing it with proper form along with a lot of glute work for prevention. Just because it didn’t cure an issue that needed surgery doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have value as a strengthening tool for the muscles around the spine.
@@GideonHawk-j8i it's not a muscle issue. It's a I don't have enough disc tissue left after a major hernia I had removed
I totally agree. Everyone seems to use an incredible amount of swinging momentum when doing reverse hypers for some reason.
Ur not supposed to
I loved the nautilus machine that you lay supine was amazing back in the day.
I've been doing all these excerises for years every since I got a disc herniation 10 years ago. Helps alot so doing building up the glutes. Like bridges and hip thrusts
can you post the proper way to use the reverse hyper?
This whole video just sounds soooooo archaic. Ive never seen "stir the pot" in any strength athlete's routine, but they routinely do weight standing planks and crunches. Why not mention that? I'm sure "stirring the pot" isn't useless but wtf
responding to an old video saying its archaic ROFL.... well yeah,,, Filmied this a long time ago and was speaking to what was going on in the industry at that time. - chris
The advice in this video is solid gold
I LOVE MY REVERSE HYPER !!!!
Mcgill big 3 are overrated.
Inversion table 5 minutes 3x a day, stretching, And 3 second up / down reverse hypers got me back to lifting with no sciatic pain.
was your lower back pain caused by a disc herniation/bulge?
guess not...
@@7THxSIGN yes, jumping motorcycles over 90’ ft. Over jumping landing ramp. Did the damage. Then doing a 500 pound squat on 42nd birthday 3 days later.
@@sscott5340 that is a great to hear! Thank you.
@@sscott5340 this is great to hear. What stretches did you do that helped?
You've got a few books. Which one do you recommend for a disk bulge? L4/L5 L5/S1. Massive fan. Got recommended by a power lifter long time ago. World of knowledge. Bless you guys man. Applied the squat and deadlift how to guides. Lifts feel a lot better and stronger. Stupid muay thai and the rotation got me lol
I'm about to start trying it today actually because I mentor under Charles poliquin I've taken courses with him and him and Matt Wenning who work together have put out some videos recently and he single-handedly says this is the best machine to use I don't know if you should be using it directly after the injury but once you have strengthen your core a bit it definitely
Great information. I’ve been doing some of these things and they have been working. Pain is decreasing
Reverse hyper fixed my herniated disk.
thanks guys . very encouraging. I got taken into hospital 2 nights ago and given 10 mg of morphine for my herniated discs 1-2 and 2-3 lumbar , because tramadol and cocodamol wasnt even working!. I have been so worried that his would be a life sentence. i am going to use these tips and rehab my back (away from the gym ) for the next 6 weeks. Thanks.
did you ever figure out how to cure your back pain.
This is all anecdotal but I injured my back and started doing reverse hypers. Like Chris said it felt good doing it but afterwards I did not feel it made any difference to my back. I healed my back by strengthening my core (planks, bird-dog) and high rep back squats.
I am prone to back injury as I am 6'1 but whenever I've tweaked my back it was because of bad form. Right now my back is fucked from pushing weights and not giving enough rest time for healing. Right now, I am massaging my back, and will slowly start to build it with high rep pulling exercises.
I also did reverse hypers when i was not injured, but I preferred deadlifts and squats over it. Again this is all anecdotal so don't get butt hurt RH fanboys.
I did it last night my back but after that I felt really good. Deadlifts not good for back who has disc herniation I went from deadlift 345 to barely deadlifting 95lbs. I did reverse hyper and back felt really good. How I gauge things is how I feel in the morning. If back is sore in the morning then I fucked up.
Damn this is good. I'm in rehab for a herniated L5/S1 and L3/4. I wish I stumbled upon this video earlier. I'm only 33 so I really hope this is not a life sentence. I'm going to incorporate all your recommended exercises in my daily routine, because I've had my doubts about reverse hyperextension; the risks just outweigh the benefits. Many thanks to the both of you!
@Kevin Wintersteen how u feel now?
@@timshufflebottom828 he probably had surgery. Reverse hypers will only cause worse pain for a disc issue. It is great for muscles, not the discs though. I had a disc bulge at L4/L5 and the reverse hyper machine made my pain worse.
@@7THxSIGN isnt disc herniation from compression? Im not quite sure how stretching your spine like that wouldnt help.
@@cryptocaesar8972 there is more to a disc herniation than just compression. Everyone is different and every injury is as well. I tried the reverse hypertension in hope that it would aid in my recovery from my L4/L5 disc bulge. However, unfortunately it made my pain worse. Speaking to a sport rehab specialist recently, he believes I may have been moving too far into extension with it. I may revisit it and see how it helps without moving up into extension all the way. The issue many of its critics have with it is the pressure at the bottom of the movement. Although it can be argued there isn’t load due to the design of the machine.
That being said, I spent thousands of dollars seeing a McGill Master Clinician. Did the 3 hour in person assessments and multiple follow ups. Even had a video call with Brian Carroll. I read Back Mechanic and The Gift of Injury. Practiced their rehab program daily for over a year. It did nothing for my pain. Did the McGill Big 3 everyday. In fact, the bird dog made my pain worse.
Your only hope for getting plain free is time and not re-injuring it. Could take a year. Could take a decade. It’s possible it wlll never get better as well. That’s where surgery comes in. Disc once injured are NEVER the same. Don’t believe all this BS RUclips “consultation” experts. They just want your money.
9:29 what kind of pot? what?
Bought one off Kijji. I have sciatica and degenerative disk disease due to an accident . Best $50.00 I ever spent..relieves my pain . I love it. No weights or light weight only. I'm no weight lifter just a gal in physio. I'd definitely recommend it when a physio therapist recommends it and shows proper form.
Alicia McCallum what are you referring to?
i have scoliosis in my lower back and used to had a job where i had to stand for hours. with 27 my loweer back was kind of worn down. now i work in a warehouse and lift around 3x/week. just doing compound lifts and i skip the reverse hyper because my stomach dont like it. now i am almost painfree and are stronger than ever.
What about a inversion table?
I'm sure you guys know how to lift weights however I'll listen to the 1000s of doctors that graduated medical school who say it is great for rehab.
rehabing disk ?
Can I just keep chewing up oxycontin?
I did inversion table and sometimes it still hurts my lower back l5 s1 bulging disc... will reverse hyper still help me or will it cause damage to the area
How are you now bro? Did you try the reverse hyper? I also get pain from the inversion table and my disc bulge L5/S1.
Chris, do you have any videos on sciatic nerve pain?
Fantastic informative video! While most gym goers would scroll straight past this video while looking for the cool lifting clips, this should be compulsory viewing for anyone who is serious about lifting and coaching! I love these videos!
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Needed this tonight after a night of pain.
You need a reverse hyper for your pain
With all due respect Mr Duffin I tore 3 inches off my erectors muscles and had the blessing of having a reversehyper in my gym. Moments after the injury I was able to use the reversehyper and it was "HUGE" in my rehab. In fact I believe that it was instrumental in my national championship that I took three weeks later. For this reason I am a great example of the healing ability of the reverse hyper and I have a few more examples that without a doubt the reversehyper has kept me lifting. I have one of your shoulderok and I have had alot of people try to bash or talk negative about it and just like the reversehyper I tell them it works. I appreciate what you do but here's a word of advice having respect for those that came before you and that paved the way is a key to our sport. To be blunt about it real men are never passive- aggressive or back stabbers and(not that it matters but) to be honest you have disappointed me bro. I'll keep you in my prayers and you will take this into consideration before you regarded someone elses product. God bless, keep lifting up not tearing down.
Your injury is very unique. The vast majority of back injuries are disc related. The reverse hyper is horrendous for the discs. Chris isn't the first to say this, Dr. Stu McGill has been against the reverse hyper for a long time. The RH is clearly an effective exercise for strengthening the erectors, which is probably why it would help rehab an erector injury. But still, the risk to the discs is high and there are other ways to strengthen the erectors.
I'm pretty sure I would have had back surgery by now if it wasn't for my reverse hyper.
Stacy Williams I realize many people swear by it but that doesn't change the fact that the leading research shows it can be harmful. A lot of people swear by chiropractors as well. I herniated my l5-s1, I couldn't pick up a pencil without nerve pain for an entire year. I did reverse hypers, I went to chiropractor and things only got worse. It wasn't until I did the research based protocols of Stu McGill and Dr. McKenzie that I started getting better. Just my 2 cents. I'm now also hitting big PR's in the gym.
Lance you need to listen to Chris AND Brian again - they're not saying that the reverse hyper is not a good tool. They're saying during spinal rehab that spine flexion may not be a good thing.
Edwin G. If you will read the bible as I assume you are referencing you can find in 2Peter 3:8 "A day with the Lord is as a thousand years" so God created the earth in 6000 years and He rested on the seventh but what does that have to do with our subject I'm sure you will have an answer.
Appreciate all the knowledge!
reverse hyber saved my back. No more bulging discs or herniated discs for me
when doin a mckenzie press up is it wise or helpful to try initiating the movement with spinal erectors and finish with arms assisting last half of motion?
Amazing video. Great tips.
4:53 more motivation, 11:30 for tips
It sounds dumb and simple but simply stretching has helped my back immensely.
THANK YOU! slipped a disc, L4-L5, and it was excruciating! there would be no way I would do a reverse hyper. maybe after fully healing and strengthening first. Superman's helped me.
Been on a roller-coaster for 4 years. Don't remember the exact term but I think i had a central right disc protrusion on my L4,L5. Not working at the moment, so I hope this can help me.
Hi Chris. I've been watching your videos and reading you articles for a while now, and I just wanted to ask you about an issue I'm having with my spinal erectors. I've noticed when I deadlift or squat only one of my erectors gets sore. When I touch that erector it feels really tense and it's also larger than the other erector. Do you have any advice for what I should do for my imbalanced erectors? Thank you.
Dude, that sounds like a question for a PT.
It's your form, you're likely tucking one side of your pelvis, but not the other. My advice is drop the weight and work on your form more, being careful to take note of where your feet are and how your pelvis is positioned.
It would help if you got someone who know's what a deadlift is supposed to actually look like to watch you lifting a decent amount of weight to see what you are doing... Not some 315lb lifter, someone that is on their way to 5 plates or more. 315 is easy even with poor form....
I had a similar issue after a major injury, only one side would activate, and because my injury was primarily torn nerves, I couldn't tell myself how bad one side of my body was just by looking at it in the mirror. I had to go find a coach to get my form sorted properly. Now I'm good, but it took about 6 months of work to fix the problem. Nerves take a lot longer to grow...
Kyle Feist 1) it's pretty common to have a small imbalance 2) the possible causes for an excessive imbalance run into the dozens
Yoga
try using a reverse hyper lol
Very, very good video!
tried The cat camel, Mckenzie press up. Instant relief!
Can reverse hypers help with lower back pumps
So i love brazilian jujitsu but grappling wreaks havoc on your spine. I have heard the reverse hyper is great for lower back strength and decompression. Is that true? I understand what you said about using it to treat a disk injury which is counter productive
So... what you are saying is the lowering should be done slowly? That's what I thought all along...
don't buy the reverse hyper. buy the boomstick. got it Chris