I am mostly liking what I am seeing of 4th edition. But I have to admit that my very first reaction to the Liberator warscroll was: "Why don't they have 3 health??" As for the model culling, GW should have at the very least marked the units that will get a direct replacement within this year. As is, we will have a few months of uncertainty about Paladins and Judicators...
Sad to see some models go (Dracolines), but glad some of my favorites (Fulminators/Tempestors) will continue!!! Can't wait to see the full range of warscrolls. Exciting time!
There should be a difference between offensive and defensive options, as well as melee and ranged. I don't want Annihilators with shields to do the same thing as Annihilators with grandhammers!
@TheStormkeep then there's only 1 "right answer" we would never build offensive vindictors, we like them bc they have a 3+ save, we don't care about their damage value
I think your idea on why Sacrosanct was pulled, but not Extremis or Vanguard, may be partially correct The other part comes down to army mechanics. What did they provide that was not already available? Plenty of shooting - don't need a ballista Plenty of liberators - don't need Sequitors I could go on. The only thing left? Spellcasting Well - we got a new Thunderstrike wizard. And she wasn't removed. Extremis and Vanguard on the other hand do offer unique mechanics from monsters, cavalry, and mobility (useful for an army that is otherwise nominally a form of castle army)
I feel bad for AoS BoC players Their army finally got a good book (imo), some new models here or there in Warcry and Underworlds, and then the army is removed Note: While "squatted" is the normal term, given that the space dwarves DID return to 40k as the Votann, it just doesn't seem like the right word anymore
I think they are keeping the double turn They will use a GHB to get rid of the battle tactic penalty thing is my first guess Alternatively, secondaries on battles get you a lot of points while battle tactics only give you 1 So losing that 1 point on most plans will not be too big a deal (you don't have to wait for that "all in" opportunity to table your opponent)
I don't think GW makes model range decisions based on gameplay at all. I didn't mention it on the stream, but another factor at play here is the amount of space taken up by Sacrosanct in their production lines and store shelves. Vanguard and Extremis are a small amount of kits, but Sacrosanct is a HUGE range, bigger than some entire armies in AOS
Every unit being a separate spell caster can not have been made a different and powerful/popular option? Venguard and extremis look like space marines , while sacrosanct look like classic crusader knights.
damn redploy changes deepstrike for the whole game. i will feel bad when i deepstrike 9" away or 7" if it stays and they move back to 12 or more inches lol as i am reading it you totally can react to deepstrikes - Edit***** i am glad you mentioned it
If they don't add some kind of extra spice for reserves then they will be easy to counter with Covering Fire, Redeploy, and Counter-Charge We'll just have to wait and see what else is coming!
I love that they are making war gear more of an aesthetic choice than a gameplay one. It’s super cool to me that I can build and paint whatever version I like the best and don’t have to sweat about it being a big deal rules wise. The amount of times you’d have to re buy kits in 40K every edition to play WYSIWYG is insane unless you magnetize everything. Also the hammers are too big my dudes.
I went so far that i put every not Thunderstrike Unit in my "Proxi" box, even if they are still legal but i assume they also will get squattet latest in 5.0. I wont buy any models which has the old asthetic.
Thinking about battle traits for armies and comparing with current battletomes. If those 4 are the only ones for stormcast either most battletomes will get significantly nerfed or the real power of the armies will come with the new batalions. Can’t wait to find out if stormcast will finally make something nice when they explode
Two boxes of dracolithes and aristeia bought for christmas. 100% of a 3000pts army legends. And to replace it we get dudes with shields and axes , which instead of cool knights look like space marines . Great l didn't like the 3ed SCE and l can't rebuy a 2000pts army. All after not full 5 years of playing. I wonder if this means 3ed SCE will be removed in 5th.
Disagree with your point on list building, 3.0's is brainless and 4.0 seems more or less the same, 1 hero to be general and 3 units that are battleline. all the other junk like Bats and enhancements are optional extras, and combos will still be there in 4th.
bats are an extra, you don't have to use them, army is probably worse off not using them, but to make a legal list they are unneeded. its also the extra complexity that's best left out for a new players first few games anyway.
@@Tourniquet I agree! That's why I like the 4th ed list building, since it has formalized that idea as part of the rules. You can bring your unrefined newbie list to a tournament and play with everyone else :D
This is indeed the only critism I have with the potcast as a whole, maybe its an american thing ? It can really get annoying after a while :( Never pointed it out cause otherwise its so good but yeah
It's definitely a filler word that I crutch on when thinking about what to say. It's something I want to get better at not doing as much, so hopefully it'll go down haha
I am usualy very positive and optimistic with game designers. But how in hell can you be happy with more 3+ bullshit, especially for such a massively impactfull ability. Its not fun, its not good competitive design, itsjust idiotic and frustrating. GW and Gw "competitive" players should play some other real competitive or fun games at some points and take some notes, because GW design is neither. Im so pissed of, and FRankly I was convinced you would be too. 3+ strike first in the COMBAT PHASE, so no way to play it safe. And please no talk about rng mitigation, you said it,this is game breaking. Soooooo fun. 2 hours to set up so the game is played on a 3+ or a initiative roll. And thats just one exemple of catastrophic game design. Was really hopefull after good signs in 3rd edition.
@@plazma5343 I feel that - I hate "3+ to win the game" dice rolls, too. There needs to be randomness to create variance and a dynamic board state, but too much power locked behind single dice rolls with no modifiers takes control away from the players. I hope we don't see too many of this type of rule in 4th edition. Right now I'm in a honeymoon phase with these new rules but I'm sure it will pass :P I suspect that savvy opponents won't even let you try to roll the 3+... they will always charge your EXTREMIS units first to prevent you from using Counter Charge. There is certainly tactical value in forcing your opponent to charge you.
@@TheStormkeep You are right, good players will play around this rule. But this is my entire point, strong rule bending strategy defining abilities should not be random. A bad player can ALWAYS just "fuck it he'll miss his 3+/fuck it, i'll play all in for the double turn and win 45%" ITS STUPID, you have a great game system that ALREADY has tons of rng, let the defining ones pop automaticaly and let players have intense tactical play around them. Like in other competitive games. Otherwise its just poker, great game, but has to be played over many matches to judge a player. This type of high variance works (a little) in MTG cause games are short, not in a 3 hours game. In chess a great player will win 10^15 times over 10^15 times against a mediocre oponent. In good mini competitive games its more like 90% I feel Aos with this design is closer to poker and what 60 % ? E0ffing sucks. Aos is chess if you had to roll à 2+ to capture à piece. Maybe its just huge copium, but I was expecting a lot from 4th and am so far sad that this design is staying... Looks pretty good otherwise you are right. Édit : im a full grown up having a self inflicted tantrum online :D shows how much the love hate relationship with GW is toxic as you said
Was days away from getting Evocators on dracolines, timing is everything
I am mostly liking what I am seeing of 4th edition. But I have to admit that my very first reaction to the Liberator warscroll was: "Why don't they have 3 health??"
As for the model culling, GW should have at the very least marked the units that will get a direct replacement within this year. As is, we will have a few months of uncertainty about Paladins and Judicators...
Agreed on all counts!
Sad to see some models go (Dracolines), but glad some of my favorites (Fulminators/Tempestors) will continue!!! Can't wait to see the full range of warscrolls. Exciting time!
Here's hoping when they retire Fulms/Temps they bring out new Thunderstrike replacements immediately
I deff like the concept of build your models how you want and they have 1 warscroll.
There should be a difference between offensive and defensive options, as well as melee and ranged. I don't want Annihilators with shields to do the same thing as Annihilators with grandhammers!
@@TheStormkeep would have saved me $120 lol
@TheStormkeep then there's only 1 "right answer" we would never build offensive vindictors, we like them bc they have a 3+ save, we don't care about their damage value
@@SaltySeadogKP14 What if both the offense and defense options were both good in their own ways? It's not impossible!
Another great video. Makes me both sad and hopeful. Can't wait for summer and 4th!
What I want to know is if I can bring back half a reinforced unit of Stormdrakes with Heaven’s Sent.
That is the dream!
We'll just have to wait and see if they have the CAVALRY keyword... they might be MONSTER instead, though
I think your idea on why Sacrosanct was pulled, but not Extremis or Vanguard, may be partially correct
The other part comes down to army mechanics. What did they provide that was not already available?
Plenty of shooting - don't need a ballista
Plenty of liberators - don't need Sequitors
I could go on. The only thing left? Spellcasting
Well - we got a new Thunderstrike wizard. And she wasn't removed.
Extremis and Vanguard on the other hand do offer unique mechanics from monsters, cavalry, and mobility (useful for an army that is otherwise nominally a form of castle army)
I feel bad for AoS BoC players
Their army finally got a good book (imo), some new models here or there in Warcry and Underworlds, and then the army is removed
Note:
While "squatted" is the normal term, given that the space dwarves DID return to 40k as the Votann, it just doesn't seem like the right word anymore
I think they are keeping the double turn
They will use a GHB to get rid of the battle tactic penalty thing is my first guess
Alternatively, secondaries on battles get you a lot of points while battle tactics only give you 1
So losing that 1 point on most plans will not be too big a deal (you don't have to wait for that "all in" opportunity to table your opponent)
I don't think GW makes model range decisions based on gameplay at all. I didn't mention it on the stream, but another factor at play here is the amount of space taken up by Sacrosanct in their production lines and store shelves. Vanguard and Extremis are a small amount of kits, but Sacrosanct is a HUGE range, bigger than some entire armies in AOS
Every unit being a separate spell caster can not have been made a different and powerful/popular option? Venguard and extremis look like space marines , while sacrosanct look like classic crusader knights.
damn redploy changes deepstrike for the whole game. i will feel bad when i deepstrike 9" away or 7" if it stays and they move back to 12 or more inches lol as i am reading it you totally can react to deepstrikes - Edit***** i am glad you mentioned it
If they don't add some kind of extra spice for reserves then they will be easy to counter with Covering Fire, Redeploy, and Counter-Charge
We'll just have to wait and see what else is coming!
Considering fifth edition will certainly be stormcast vs death, sacrosanct will almost certainly return with new sculpts then.
I love that they are making war gear more of an aesthetic choice than a gameplay one. It’s super cool to me that I can build and paint whatever version I like the best and don’t have to sweat about it being a big deal rules wise. The amount of times you’d have to re buy kits in 40K every edition to play WYSIWYG is insane unless you magnetize everything.
Also the hammers are too big my dudes.
They should be bigger!
I think redeploy still being d6 wont be that good, i think would be better to save cps for the other commands
Agreed, people won't be using Redeploy nearly as often as they do now.
It will still be a very powerful tool in the right situation
I went so far that i put every not Thunderstrike Unit in my "Proxi" box, even if they are still legal but i assume they also will get squattet latest in 5.0. I wont buy any models which has the old asthetic.
Yeah it's only a matter of time until they all get removed. Anyone saying otherwise is trying to sell you something :P
Covering fire tempestors. Yes.
Thinking about battle traits for armies and comparing with current battletomes. If those 4 are the only ones for stormcast either most battletomes will get significantly nerfed or the real power of the armies will come with the new batalions. Can’t wait to find out if stormcast will finally make something nice when they explode
Two boxes of dracolithes and aristeia bought for christmas. 100% of a 3000pts army legends. And to replace it we get dudes with shields and axes , which instead of cool knights look like space marines . Great l didn't like the 3ed SCE and l can't rebuy a 2000pts army. All after not full 5 years of playing. I wonder if this means 3ed SCE will be removed in 5th.
How tf is the Questor still in the line? Cut that out lmao
Somebody has to lead the Questor Soulsworn into battle...
@@TheStormkeep I mean the leader is called a Questor Prime 🤷♂️
Disagree with your point on list building, 3.0's is brainless and 4.0 seems more or less the same, 1 hero to be general and 3 units that are battleline. all the other junk like Bats and enhancements are optional extras, and combos will still be there in 4th.
3rd edition battalions are really not intuitive at all
bats are an extra, you don't have to use them, army is probably worse off not using them, but to make a legal list they are unneeded.
its also the extra complexity that's best left out for a new players first few games anyway.
@@Tourniquet I agree! That's why I like the 4th ed list building, since it has formalized that idea as part of the rules. You can bring your unrefined newbie list to a tournament and play with everyone else :D
My God, cut the word "like" out of this and the podcast will be an hour and a half! 😅
This is indeed the only critism I have with the potcast as a whole, maybe its an american thing ? It can really get annoying after a while :(
Never pointed it out cause otherwise its so good but yeah
@@plazma5343 In Britain, replace "like" with "sort of"
It's definitely a filler word that I crutch on when thinking about what to say. It's something I want to get better at not doing as much, so hopefully it'll go down haha
@@brib9716and “sort of like”
I would recommend avoiding the *sigh* that happens a lot sometimes.
Just as a communicator improvement constructive criticism.
I am usualy very positive and optimistic with game designers. But how in hell can you be happy with more 3+ bullshit, especially for such a massively impactfull ability. Its not fun, its not good competitive design, itsjust idiotic and frustrating. GW and Gw "competitive" players should play some other real competitive or fun games at some points and take some notes, because GW design is neither.
Im so pissed of, and FRankly I was convinced you would be too.
3+ strike first in the COMBAT PHASE, so no way to play it safe.
And please no talk about rng mitigation, you said it,this is game breaking.
Soooooo fun. 2 hours to set up so the game is played on a 3+ or a initiative roll.
And thats just one exemple of catastrophic game design.
Was really hopefull after good signs in 3rd edition.
Obviously not mad at you guys, love you
@@plazma5343 I feel that - I hate "3+ to win the game" dice rolls, too. There needs to be randomness to create variance and a dynamic board state, but too much power locked behind single dice rolls with no modifiers takes control away from the players. I hope we don't see too many of this type of rule in 4th edition.
Right now I'm in a honeymoon phase with these new rules but I'm sure it will pass :P
I suspect that savvy opponents won't even let you try to roll the 3+... they will always charge your EXTREMIS units first to prevent you from using Counter Charge. There is certainly tactical value in forcing your opponent to charge you.
@@TheStormkeep You are right, good players will play around this rule.
But this is my entire point, strong rule bending strategy defining abilities should not be random.
A bad player can ALWAYS just "fuck it he'll miss his 3+/fuck it, i'll play all in for the double turn and win 45%"
ITS STUPID, you have a great game system that ALREADY has tons of rng, let the defining ones pop automaticaly and let players have intense tactical play around them. Like in other competitive games.
Otherwise its just poker, great game, but has to be played over many matches to judge a player.
This type of high variance works (a little) in MTG cause games are short, not in a 3 hours game.
In chess a great player will win 10^15 times over 10^15 times against a mediocre oponent. In good mini competitive games its more like 90%
I feel Aos with this design is closer to poker and what 60 % ?
E0ffing sucks. Aos is chess if you had to roll à 2+ to capture à piece.
Maybe its just huge copium, but I was expecting a lot from 4th and am so far sad that this design is staying...
Looks pretty good otherwise you are right.
Édit : im a full grown up having a self inflicted tantrum online :D shows how much the love hate relationship with GW is toxic as you said
@@plazma5343 we are all in an abusive relationship with our warhammer