I prefer the Harley character used as the Abused Partner tool. I like how it gives Joker some actual real world evil and how it plays off of the cartoony and comicbooky evil he usually has. It makes him more scary. I think Harley should be used as an abused person who can't break free, and might not want to, because we have the abused and assaulted person who gains the strength to break free and move on in Barbara as Oracle.
She's 2nd tier, next to DCAU and 2019 Harley (who is 3rd). I like Hynden Walch voicing her, I like that 'The Batman' Joker isn't abusive like DCAU Joker to her and overall, I do agree she needs more love, as well as 'The Batman' Joker, who is a gentleman, compared to DCAU Joker.
Dunno, its far from "forgotten gem" this days. There are plenty of others Batman related shows that worth talking about that feels to be unknown to the general public. Like does anyone even remember "Beware the Batman" and its unque focus on lesser popular villains from Bat's rouge gallery?
Agreed. While it's far from perfect, it tried a few things that ended up being adapted in some of the more mainstream media, but from sudden changes in tone in between seasons, to the embargos on certain characters that were in other shows, not to mention it was following TAS, it feels like timing was its biggest obstacle.
@@Ocelot835I loved Beware the Batman especially the move toward the outsiders and Katana as his first partner. It felt like a good "different" Batman iteration that kept the core of the character and more importantly introduced non comic readers to lesser known characters giving them the spotlight. That said I don't think either show can be talked about too much. The only adaption that gets as much love as it deserves is the DCAU BTAS.
This is the ONLY version of Harley and Joker I'm totally fine with being a more real romantic couple. They actually put in effort to rewrite it to keep most of the elements but phase out the abusive relationship dynamic. And also commit to this Harley being more a villain, instead of keeping it wishy washy.
Not to mention that montage of Joker and Harley having fun accompanied with Joker's "Settin the woods on fire" cover is probably the most adorable Joker and Harley have ever been.
I like that there is a version of the Joker/Harley relationship without the abuse. Like this is a version of the Joker that genuinely loves their Harley and in turn, this Harley matches his crazy. It's a fun fresh dynamic that I'd like to see explored more in other stories. (to be clear, other "non-canon" stories since it's clear their relationship in the comics is pretty f-ed up)
@@keithharrissuwignjo2460 And too be fair she technically did the same to him in a later episode with the hologram Joker. So overall yeah its a much more balanced relationship. Neither are particularly good but the inherent abusive aspect is not really present.
I get that, but personally I never like those takes because it somewhat humanizes the Joker. Granted this does a better job than most, but I prefer a Joker that's just straight evil, no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and that sort of Joker has be abusive by default. Giving Harley either a survivor of abuse story for heroic tales or brainwashed lunatic for the villain routes is still my preferred route too. I won't knock anyone for trying something different with either of them though, especially for something set in its own universe.
@@synisterintent I get that. And I definitely understand the significance of the exploring the abuse angle of their relationship. But when that's THE ONLY way it's presented in most media, it can get a bit exhausting. I give the show credit for trying a different take.
@@TheMovieSequelDude49tbh I feel besides batman the animated series no other media has treated them as truly abusive? Arlham games harley is just a henchmen, we don't talk about the suicide squad movie and the harley quinn show plus birds of prey treats joker like a toxic college ex boyfriend and not a domestically abusive husband
20:07 - worth noting how unique was the relationship between Harley and Ivy in The Batman Strikes due to the age gap. Most other adaptations tend to portrait them as partners in crime, best friends, lovers or all the above together. But there due to Ivy being teenager their chemistry is more like of a siblings, with Harley taking the role of older sister that just try to bond and have fun with the young one))
While I do think there are some things that are weird because of the much younger Ivy, her relationships with Barbara and Harley are definitely areas that made it a very nice change.
I went to a comic convention a long time ago where Dini hosted a Q&A. He said Harley was always meant to be a bad psychologist. _"She slept her way to a degree"_ (direct quote. This version is a lot closer to what Dini initially intended for the character.
That's obvious if you read the Mad Love comic which the TNBA episode is based on. It's why it's more believable that the joker was able to manipulate her compared to every other psychiatrist at Arkham which is why I prefer the comic. It fits much better into the criminals were always corrupt and that's why they became one.
I know that the two VA’s people most think of when it comes to Harley Quinn are Arleen Sorkin & Tara Strong, but I’ve always felt that Hynden Walch’s performance is underrated and deserves more praise.
I think the best part of this iteration is how much agency she has compared to most versions. In BTAS (and by extension the "canon" bacstory) she's obviously a victim manipulated by the joker. Whereas in this version it's implied she could have very easily gone down this road on her own. She just needed the right push, which Joker was more than happy to provide. She's the one who wants to take revenge against the network execs that stuffed her, and Joker is more than happy to cause chaos and mayhem. And while their relationship is _far_ from healthy, Joker's actions against her are less dismissively malicious and more just intrinsic to his brand of megalomania. That's just how he is, and he can't help it.
Underrated Harley, not just because of the story itself but also because of Hynden Walch. She comes the closest to sounding like Arleen Sorkin and frankly, doesn't get enough credit for it. Whenever Walch returns to the role it feels like a special event, even if it's just for a short time. She doesn't get many opportunities to show off how damn good she is at voicing Harley, but you can tell that she makes the most of every single one of them.
I think the most interesting thing about this version of Harley vs the original is that unlike the latter where Harley is the result of active manipulation and coercion by the Joker in order to reshape her the former is the result of the Joker gently pushing an already unstable person in order to see just how far she’ll go of her own volition. When you think about it kinda fits into the whole “one bad day” thing more than the original version.
I still get "Settin' the woods on fire" stuck in my head every now and then. This Harley is the perfect sanitisation of the classic origin story; Manipulation without the physical and emotional abuse, a more engaged Joker who genuinely finds Harleen as a kindred spirit after initial manic flippancy, and an actual partner in chaos rather than a put-upon moll. Once you get into it, The Batman has a lot of fun twists and simplifications on classic characters -- comparing it to BTAS is like Apples to Oranges. They're different things, BTAS is the detective aspect, The Batman is a martial artist, BATB is the superhero. And Beware the Batman is... Also here.
Oh definitely. And I will definitely say that after Arleen Sorkin, Hynden Walch who voiced Harley in The Batman is my second favourite voice for the character ever. As an aside I also really love her design of her mask having white eyes as well.
After hearing Hynden Walsh’s voice for Harley after all these years, she would have been the best fit to succeed Arleen Sorkin. She captures the same energy & nuance. And while I don’t mind the other actresses who’ve done the role, this version just captures you. And it’s a great design style from the OG.
I wish she had been more commonly utilized as Harley than Tara Strong. Aside from the controversy, I've just also never thought Strong was great in the role
I never caught this episode on TV as a kid, but even from hearing the snippets here, I fully agree! Arleen being the #1 of course since the character was written for her. I feel most other Harleys go too hard on the accent til it sounds fake (Strong, Rauch, Strange) or eschew it entirely (Cuoco, Chung) and her live action counterparts don't get to add that WB cartoonish energy the character was born with. Hynden Walch seems to get the accent and energy just right here, which is awesome!
To me what makes Harley work in this series is that she had no one to blame for her downfall but herself and but we see how despite her boss warning her of her actions and the people around her getting fed up or calling her out she refused to admit any fault in her actions much like what happen on the show ellen that the batman foreshadowed
It makes sense that this version of Joker would want to aide Harley as it fits his character in this show. He makes reference to feeling trapped in a world that doesn't get him(like the episodes about Clayface and Prank) and because of that he wants to punish it while having his own fun becausw he felt wronged by it while it was all likely his own fault. So Harley sharing a similar origin could be a reason why he wants her to be his sidekick. She's like prank except she didn't have much morality in her soul as she is willing to murder those who have done her wrong even if the folks she blames are the audience of show she hates too her much like Joker she is the victim to a world that didn't bend to her way of life. She's what Joker seeked in a sidekick and why she lasted longer than Prank.
I just realized how much this show shaped the aspects of Harley that I love, the more overt villainous streak, a focus on the mental abuse and stripping back of the physical abuse, the assertive goals and informed behavior, and allowing her slapstick-like emotion to flourish. I would argue her costume not only faithfully captured her BTAS appearance but far exceeded it as well. As everyone said, behind Arleen, Hynden really knocked it out of the park. It's just such a shame she didn't get much screen time and a bummer hearing they fell back onto BTAS characterization with the comics.
I think the version from "The Batman" sort of makes more sense because they showcase that she always had a playful exterior, whereas the one in "Batman: The Animated Series" make her civilian counterpart feel like a totally different person. Harleen Quinzel didn't even seem to have much of an accent in the "Batman: The Animated Series" origin story, but then she suddenly develops one when she adopts the Harley Quinn persona.
@manjackson2772 Yeah, well, in the episode where they go into Bruce Wayne's head in Harley's spin-off show, they seem to imply that she was faking the acent.
There’s a comic where at one point Harley tells Ivy that she was putting on an accent to sound like Lucy from I Love Lucy because the Joker watched old comedy television and once told her that a woman like that sounded like someone he could love.
I really want to talk about 'Caped Crusaders' take on Harley Quinn. Especially with how she uses a rigid enforcement of rules to break her victims. I feel like she's being set up to a foil to the Jokers "Chaos is the joke" with her own twist of "Order is the joke."
She's such a radically different take I'm tempted to say she's a wholly new character that just borrows a few details from Harley. But that doesn't mean she isn't an awesome character in her own right -- her design alone is amazing.
The Batman as a whole definitely deserves more love. It's beautiful and dynamic and a fun interpretation of the characters. This Harley as well, and I think Hynden Walch should be Harley more often ❤️
What could have been a neat plot twist to "Two of a kind" would have been if it ended with Harley escaping, and the Joker being left behind to be captured. I like the idea of a Harley who was always bad on the inside and just needed the Joker to show her how to break free of the shackles of society. I'd have liked to see them go all in on Harley and Joker as a criminal power couple.
Personally I think the good in HarleyXJoker is mandatory, even if you wanna have them not together for a serries, as much as this sounds counter intuitive, it makes her seem less crazy if there's good in him that he shows her, even if he's faking it, it gives her a reason to stay so "She could fix him" which if you're in a relationship with that mindset it's not a good thing and you can't, but that's part of the tragic relatability of her.
One of my favorite versions of Harley (Who doesn't enjoy the big hat, so much fanart gives her the big hat again) and Hynden Walch is probably my second favorite voice to take the role right after Arleen Sorkin.
This was my favorite version of Harley and Joker. Although they backtracked a bit with him threatening to hit her, it was nice seeing Harley in more of a toxic/loving relationship than just being Joker's punching bag or "used to be" punching bag like in the newer versions.
Man, Hynden Walch really is phenomonal as Harley whenever I hear her, and I wish DC would hire her more often. Honestly, she's great in every DC project she's in.
@@camerondodge2070 I see her as the perfect successor to Arleen Sorkin. No one does it better than her in capturing her accent and insanity. The rest are terrible. And yes, AoA was an amazing movie.
I always liked this version of Harley's origin. It is a great masterclass in how to adapt an origin and make it unique. It took the core parts of Harley's backstory and put a unique and refreshing twist on it, rather than just regurgitating Mad Love.
This is my favourite version of Harley Quinn. She does enough to make herself distinct whilst keeping what made the original so iconic. Also she keeps the bloody costume that everyone post-Arkham Asylum keeps removing.
Honestly, I really liked this show's take on Harley. Dont get me wrong, Arleen Sorkin will always be my favourite Harley Quinn; however, I think this take on her being a former TV show psychiatrist is a unique reinvention that keeps her origin as a therapist while finding a new way to tie her to the Joker. I do like how they establish how this Harley is just as chaotic and not willing to take people's s*** as she is misguided and naive such as how she tames Joker's hyenas, yet she still falls for Joker's manipulation as he just uses her as a tool to have fun while also manipulating her vulnerability and resentment over her former tv executive boss's to fuel her hatred and once she gets in trouble he ditches her even though he still chooses to keep her around because she's always been entertainment to him both on TV or in real life Harley Quinn is just Joker's jester whenever he gets bored and sadly Harley fails to see how far shes let her hatred get to her, and now shes stuck a the Joker's lapdog
My second favorite Harley Quinn after Batman TAS. I love when Harley is a bit more villainous, while also having sympathetic elements, plus her and Joker have a fun relationship here
The Batman and Kevin Conroy's Batman in JL/JLU were both the Batmen I grew up with originally which is crazy to think about in retrospect. The Batman's version of Barbara Gordon was actually the first version I ever saw. I loved this version of Harley.
Honestly I just really like Hynden Walch's Harley voice, it's got its own unique sorta tinge to it while still being immediately recognizable as a Harley voice.
The answer is yes! She's great I love the more mature vibe she has especially when paired with Ivy in the comics who is a kid. Also I think Hynden does a better Harley voice than Tara which can be seen better in Assault on Arkham!
Between this and the Harley in the new Batman show, it’s reminding of that TellTale Batman game where Harley and Joker’s positions are reversed, and Harley turns a lovesick Joker (Joe Kerr or smth like that?) into a villain. Or had the potential to - it was one of those early branching story games. I never played it myself, just watched a playthrough, but I’d love to hear your take on that interpretation, back when the Harley Hype was just revving up.
It is amazing how many times could Paul Dini tell her origin. Not only in Mad Love (and later retold in B:TAS), here in The Batman but also in the comic that introduces her officially in the DC Universe. As for this version I didn´t mind. In fact, I do also like the TV series Birds of Prey and her version of her as well.
This was my first introduction to Harley as a kid and I even made an amv of the episode on my old RUclips channel. Like a lot of things on The Batman, I think this portrayal was a bit too soon after the Diniverse and would be appreciated more if it came out now.
It’s the version of Harley Quinn that made me think that Hynden Walch is the true successor to Arleen Sorkin. She’s the second known VA to voice Harley and she gives her an accent that Arleen started. She’s underrated and she needs to voice her more!! Also really love Harley’s costume in this show! It’s honestly perfect!
Interestingly enough, they actually also used that talk show host concept recently in the Batman 89 comic run, Echoes. Overall I liked this Harley, also a fan of the subtle black and red eye shadow you got! Never miss a moment to stay on theme
Long time watcher, first time commenter. I usually don't consider commenting but you asked asked if there was an episode of something we want you to take a look at. I'm not as avid a comic fan as much as I am an animation fan. I'm not ashamed to say that most of my comic knowledge comes from watching your videos lol (love the Lois Lane vids, those comics are so unhinged lmao) That said, I'd really love to hear your takes on the Invincible show. I've seen that you have the comics in the background of your videos but I don't think I've heard you actually speak about them. Anyway, love the content! Keep up the good work!
This was my first introduction to Harley ❤️ so this verison I will always have soft spot for I will always adore the giant jester hat And I always find Joker and Harley relationship in the show as healthy 😅 as thoses two can be.
Overall I find this Harley really fun, she seems like she’d thrive off the drama of reality tv if given the chance. If she ever split from the joker it’d probably be because she’d just wanna strike out on her own and reinvent herself as a proper villain, using tv or streaming to show off her crimes as reference to her armchair psychology days. I’m always going to love classic BTAS Harley but I love that writers can experiment with her with fewer restrictions. The Harley Quinn show takes her from a victimized self destructive jerk to a girl boss healing from her shitty relationship. Caped crusader has her as a stand-alone villain honing in on her psychology skills and how fucking terrifying of a force she can be. There are multiple angles and aspects you can focus in on with her as a writer and regardless of which you choose it’s gonna be interesting.
ICONIC HARLEY, ICONICCC JOKER, theyre lowkey my fave version of the couple. It was groundbreaking that shes the one manipulating him to get what she wants, hes the one obsessed, and they play each other; but its a nice platonic way in which theyre both having fun and not super abusive like say, in the Telltale game (on Harleys part, or on every other version on Jokers)- I love this version of the characters so so much
Everyone has that special place in their heart for the first batman cartoon they saw. While I love the animated series and its objectively the best batman series, I will always love the batman as the version I grew up with.
I stopped watching The Batman after Batgirl. Not because I wasn't interested. They changed the time it was on and I couldn't find it anymore so I gave up. Then I found out Robin was a thing Superman happened and a bunch of other stuff was going down and was like WTF did I miss?!
She could use a little more love. I do like that this version of Joker and Harley got to have a decent relationship here. Also Hynden Walch's voice is pretty good.
I liked this take on HQ: pop psychologist on TV. Clever. And this origin is better than the New 52 one, where she got dunk in the same chemicals that created Joker.
Love that you cover this series so thoroughly! I remember liking this version of Harley as a kid. Also, this Batman has a lot of quote-y fingers world's greatest detective moments lol. Me and my brother's favorite of those is from the TV movie The Batman vs. Dracula where Bruce meets Dracula at a party, who introduces himself as Alucard. Then Bruce takes a serving tray and some lipstick to write Alucard out and put it up to a mirror having a revelation himself (as well as showing the audience) that Alucard is just Dracula backwards 😂😂
She's definitely one of my favorite incarnations of the character. I love her design(keeping with the Jester theme unlike most other versions since), Hynden Walch's performance(who is my 2nd favorite voice next to the late, great Arleen Sorkin) & Paul Dini writing her debut episode. I remember being excited when they revealed the summary for it in back in the day & and as soon as it popped up online, I had to watch it & it didn't disappoint.
Let me see hot looking blonde ✅ Love with a psycho ✅ Willing to destroy Gotham✅ Outta control at times✅ Has more common sense than joker✅ 🙃yup she needs to go inside with rest of the psychos 🤔I could mention the time she hit it off with Batman personal on my fav comics
The biggest issue I have with this is her lack of appearances, this is honestly the biggest crime of The Batman (2004), they had really cool and interesting character concepts, but a lot of the time they didn't build or expand on them with some character serving nothing more than just a villain of the week. Heck, by the time they introduced the Justice League they essentially dropped batgirl for the most party, despite the fact she was first on the show. And Harley is a fantastic example of this, she was similar to BTAS Harley, but was also her own unique individual, however, they didn't spend more episodes establishing her as that unique individual and her relationship with the Joker, like you said, they show a sign of the abusive relationship and some of the Joker's comments so when it came to the comic run, they just presumed she was 1 to 1 like Harley from the BTAS. And increased the more crueller parts of their relationship, because she was just a background/cameo character, she became a goon.
I think I prefer Hynden Walch's Harley performances over Tara Strong's. Strong's Harley voice tends to edge a bit too much into shrill. I kinda vibed with the TV show host angle in The Batman as well. Though I do much prefer TAS origin (I hate the bit in the mad love comic where she sleeps her way through her degree, undermines what she can do).
Well, with this, I'd love to hear your thoughts on a third retelling of Harley's origin: the Spotify DC audio drama, "Harley Quinn & the Joker: Sound Mind." That is a fascinating tale on the origin because the Joker (Billy Magnussen) seems to genuinely be in love with her, while (Christina Ricci) is the one in charge, pulling the strings, manipulating things
0:37: Hence the 2004 and 2022 designations. Still, beats the Star Wars: Tale of the Jedi debacle. Still think the Bat-Embargo was more beneficial in hindsight. All those adaptational resourcefulness makes things refreshing, and besides, later works like Batman: Arkham Shadow did end up following suit with moments like having Barbara Gordon being Oracle BEFORE becoming Batgirl. 4:21: Nope, not a Two-Face ep, hehe. 12:48: Song's a bit obscure, so how should the copyrights care when compared to THE MUSIC MEISTER???????? 12:52: And no need to have different people be the singing voices too. Can easily believe that this Harley's self-assertiveness will make her quite a worthy successor to the Joker in case he maybe croaks someday. Said self-assertiveness will also not make her a potential Task Force X member simply because she'll be too rowdy for them. That's the thing about Hynden Walch, she somehow nails her voice roles at multiple emotional ranges, as seen with Teen Titans' Starfire and Adventure Time's Princess Bonnibel Bubblegum, and she even superlatively dubbed the likes of Gurren Lagaan's younger Nia Teppelin (but not the older self and the iteration from the compilation films, who's voiced by Bridget Hoffman) and The Tale of Princess Kaguya's Me no Warawa. Small wonder one can hear Arleen Sorkin levels of chutzpah in Hynden's Harley Quinn roles here and in Assault on Arkham. Heck, she even steals the spotlight as bit character Debbie from the live action classic Groundhog Day, who's also a fiancee to some guy played by Michael Shannon... yes, the movie paired up Starfire with the future Man of Steel's General Zod.
i like the older versions of Harley where she is with the joker because it showed how Joker could be cruel in ways that weren't just cartoonishly evil or as a foil to Batman he was a genuinely bad person who hurt even the people who cared about him most
I really liked that version of Harley. And again I love how The Batman looks aesthetically so much. Harley Quinn's costume just pops so much here that I feel isn't the case in other portrayals. I think the more emphasis on the hat just gives Harley that extra bit of OOMF.
Probely becuase of the age gap. Poisen Ivy is the same age Batgirl in this series. By the time season 4 happen, Batgirl study at the local university....
And in this take he _genuinely_ likes her, as opposed to stuff like Harley Quinn and/or Suicide Squad where it's more of him seeing her as a toy or prop that he just doesn't want anyone else playing with.
Joker's facial expressions in this one really catch my eye. It's interestingly different to see him having fun and enjoying it without being psychotic at the same time.
I'm glad you've highlighted The Batman like this. I dismissed it when it was new because of the gimmicky toy-selling stuff like bat-wave and whatnot, but it's good to know there was substance there as it went. I'll have to check it out at some point, at least the highlights.
This series still remains one of my top Superhero cartoons, with this Joker fighting for the top spot in my heart. The fact that I can actually see this Joker and Harley keeping a long term and twisted but loving relationship is something that I do like
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Where does The Batman's Harley Quinn rank for you?
Are you seriously not done with Harley yet? The problem is that she isn’t interesting anymore.
I prefer the Harley character used as the Abused Partner tool. I like how it gives Joker some actual real world evil and how it plays off of the cartoony and comicbooky evil he usually has. It makes him more scary.
I think Harley should be used as an abused person who can't break free, and might not want to, because we have the abused and assaulted person who gains the strength to break free and move on in Barbara as Oracle.
I still love BTAS the best for Harley Quinn
She's 2nd tier, next to DCAU and 2019 Harley (who is 3rd). I like Hynden Walch voicing her, I like that 'The Batman' Joker isn't abusive like DCAU Joker to her and overall, I do agree she needs more love, as well as 'The Batman' Joker, who is a gentleman, compared to DCAU Joker.
This is a close second to the BTAS Harley for me.
I think The Batman cartoon needs more love in general. Just an all around fun iteration of the Batman characters and mythos
Dunno, its far from "forgotten gem" this days. There are plenty of others Batman related shows that worth talking about that feels to be unknown to the general public. Like does anyone even remember "Beware the Batman" and its unque focus on lesser popular villains from Bat's rouge gallery?
Agreed. While it's far from perfect, it tried a few things that ended up being adapted in some of the more mainstream media, but from sudden changes in tone in between seasons, to the embargos on certain characters that were in other shows, not to mention it was following TAS, it feels like timing was its biggest obstacle.
@@Ocelot835 I've been waiting for a Beware the Batman video for a while now.
Hugo Strange is straight up the best version.
@@Ocelot835I loved Beware the Batman especially the move toward the outsiders and Katana as his first partner. It felt like a good "different" Batman iteration that kept the core of the character and more importantly introduced non comic readers to lesser known characters giving them the spotlight. That said I don't think either show can be talked about too much. The only adaption that gets as much love as it deserves is the DCAU BTAS.
This is the ONLY version of Harley and Joker I'm totally fine with being a more real romantic couple. They actually put in effort to rewrite it to keep most of the elements but phase out the abusive relationship dynamic. And also commit to this Harley being more a villain, instead of keeping it wishy washy.
Not to mention that montage of Joker and Harley having fun accompanied with Joker's "Settin the woods on fire" cover is probably the most adorable Joker and Harley have ever been.
It was not a relationship in the DCAU, but just an employer/employee as Joker did keep even some of the failure goons.
Never mind Harley---that version of Killer Croc needs more love! That Louisiana gumbo chomper was a hoot! 🐊😂
And voiced by Ron Perlman which only makes him better.
Right? It's such a sick attire.
@@captainfantastic9158 More Versions of Killer Croc should have a Tail.
Dude, that version was so badass!
I like that there is a version of the Joker/Harley relationship without the abuse. Like this is a version of the Joker that genuinely loves their Harley and in turn, this Harley matches his crazy. It's a fun fresh dynamic that I'd like to see explored more in other stories. (to be clear, other "non-canon" stories since it's clear their relationship in the comics is pretty f-ed up)
At worse he abandoned her
@@keithharrissuwignjo2460 And too be fair she technically did the same to him in a later episode with the hologram Joker. So overall yeah its a much more balanced relationship. Neither are particularly good but the inherent abusive aspect is not really present.
I get that, but personally I never like those takes because it somewhat humanizes the Joker. Granted this does a better job than most, but I prefer a Joker that's just straight evil, no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and that sort of Joker has be abusive by default. Giving Harley either a survivor of abuse story for heroic tales or brainwashed lunatic for the villain routes is still my preferred route too. I won't knock anyone for trying something different with either of them though, especially for something set in its own universe.
@@synisterintent I get that. And I definitely understand the significance of the exploring the abuse angle of their relationship. But when that's THE ONLY way it's presented in most media, it can get a bit exhausting. I give the show credit for trying a different take.
@@TheMovieSequelDude49tbh I feel besides batman the animated series no other media has treated them as truly abusive? Arlham games harley is just a henchmen, we don't talk about the suicide squad movie and the harley quinn show plus birds of prey treats joker like a toxic college ex boyfriend and not a domestically abusive husband
I like the Bonnie and Clyde approach with these characters, it's pretty refreshing and strangely kinda cute.
20:07 - worth noting how unique was the relationship between Harley and Ivy in The Batman Strikes due to the age gap. Most other adaptations tend to portrait them as partners in crime, best friends, lovers or all the above together. But there due to Ivy being teenager their chemistry is more like of a siblings, with Harley taking the role of older sister that just try to bond and have fun with the young one))
While I do think there are some things that are weird because of the much younger Ivy, her relationships with Barbara and Harley are definitely areas that made it a very nice change.
I went to a comic convention a long time ago where Dini hosted a Q&A. He said Harley was always meant to be a bad psychologist. _"She slept her way to a degree"_ (direct quote.
This version is a lot closer to what Dini initially intended for the character.
That's obvious if you read the Mad Love comic which the TNBA episode is based on. It's why it's more believable that the joker was able to manipulate her compared to every other psychiatrist at Arkham which is why I prefer the comic. It fits much better into the criminals were always corrupt and that's why they became one.
Why am I not surprised that the horndog Dini wanted Harley to sleep her way up the ladder.
I know that the two VA’s people most think of when it comes to Harley Quinn are Arleen Sorkin & Tara Strong, but I’ve always felt that Hynden Walch’s performance is underrated and deserves more praise.
I think Hynden Walch should have become the standard voice for Harley after Arleen Sorkin stopped.
@@coolman229 I wholeheartedly agree!
I think the best part of this iteration is how much agency she has compared to most versions. In BTAS (and by extension the "canon" bacstory) she's obviously a victim manipulated by the joker. Whereas in this version it's implied she could have very easily gone down this road on her own. She just needed the right push, which Joker was more than happy to provide. She's the one who wants to take revenge against the network execs that stuffed her, and Joker is more than happy to cause chaos and mayhem. And while their relationship is _far_ from healthy, Joker's actions against her are less dismissively malicious and more just intrinsic to his brand of megalomania. That's just how he is, and he can't help it.
Underrated Harley, not just because of the story itself but also because of Hynden Walch. She comes the closest to sounding like Arleen Sorkin and frankly, doesn't get enough credit for it. Whenever Walch returns to the role it feels like a special event, even if it's just for a short time. She doesn't get many opportunities to show off how damn good she is at voicing Harley, but you can tell that she makes the most of every single one of them.
ngl i prefer her over tara strong
I like it when Harley has a bit more agency, so this version really works for me.
I think the most interesting thing about this version of Harley vs the original is that unlike the latter where Harley is the result of active manipulation and coercion by the Joker in order to reshape her the former is the result of the Joker gently pushing an already unstable person in order to see just how far she’ll go of her own volition.
When you think about it kinda fits into the whole “one bad day” thing more than the original version.
Which is fitting considering The Batman uses the 'one bad day' theme a lot.
I dunno if it's more "one bad day" or "madness is like gravity", but either way I'll take it.
She’s voiced by Hynden Walch so I like her by default. I’m bias towards any character Hynden voices because she’s childhood friends with my mom
I still get "Settin' the woods on fire" stuck in my head every now and then. This Harley is the perfect sanitisation of the classic origin story; Manipulation without the physical and emotional abuse, a more engaged Joker who genuinely finds Harleen as a kindred spirit after initial manic flippancy, and an actual partner in chaos rather than a put-upon moll.
Once you get into it, The Batman has a lot of fun twists and simplifications on classic characters -- comparing it to BTAS is like Apples to Oranges. They're different things, BTAS is the detective aspect, The Batman is a martial artist, BATB is the superhero.
And Beware the Batman is... Also here.
Oh definitely. And I will definitely say that after Arleen Sorkin, Hynden Walch who voiced Harley in The Batman is my second favourite voice for the character ever. As an aside I also really love her design of her mask having white eyes as well.
She also voice Starfire so in general the voice is nostalgic to hear for multiple DC animated projects.
After hearing Hynden Walsh’s voice for Harley after all these years, she would have been the best fit to succeed Arleen Sorkin. She captures the same energy & nuance. And while I don’t mind the other actresses who’ve done the role, this version just captures you. And it’s a great design style from the OG.
I think her take on Harley is a bit stronger than Tara’s but Tara seems to be favored by DC. Part of it could be that she’s a notable VA.
I wish she had been more commonly utilized as Harley than Tara Strong. Aside from the controversy, I've just also never thought Strong was great in the role
Hynden did such a good job i had no idea it wasnt Arleen
Hynden Walch is still my second favorite Harley VA. She so needs to play the character in more stuff
I never caught this episode on TV as a kid, but even from hearing the snippets here, I fully agree! Arleen being the #1 of course since the character was written for her.
I feel most other Harleys go too hard on the accent til it sounds fake (Strong, Rauch, Strange) or eschew it entirely (Cuoco, Chung) and her live action counterparts don't get to add that WB cartoonish energy the character was born with. Hynden Walch seems to get the accent and energy just right here, which is awesome!
To me what makes Harley work in this series is that she had no one to blame for her downfall but herself and but we see how despite her boss warning her of her actions and the people around her getting fed up or calling her out she refused to admit any fault in her actions much like what happen on the show ellen that the batman foreshadowed
@ …..ah huh. Okay
Way better then Tara Strong right now
@ that I can agree to
It makes sense that this version of Joker would want to aide Harley as it fits his character in this show.
He makes reference to feeling trapped in a world that doesn't get him(like the episodes about Clayface and Prank) and because of that he wants to punish it while having his own fun becausw he felt wronged by it while it was all likely his own fault. So Harley sharing a similar origin could be a reason why he wants her to be his sidekick.
She's like prank except she didn't have much morality in her soul as she is willing to murder those who have done her wrong even if the folks she blames are the audience of show she hates too her much like Joker she is the victim to a world that didn't bend to her way of life.
She's what Joker seeked in a sidekick and why she lasted longer than Prank.
I just realized how much this show shaped the aspects of Harley that I love, the more overt villainous streak, a focus on the mental abuse and stripping back of the physical abuse, the assertive goals and informed behavior, and allowing her slapstick-like emotion to flourish. I would argue her costume not only faithfully captured her BTAS appearance but far exceeded it as well. As everyone said, behind Arleen, Hynden really knocked it out of the park. It's just such a shame she didn't get much screen time and a bummer hearing they fell back onto BTAS characterization with the comics.
Arleen Sorkin will always be my favorite. I still miss her.
Me too I really miss Arleen Sorkin and Kevin Conroy... R.I.P both of them will be missed for years to come
Luckily with ai her voice can be replicated and a mod that gives Arkham games the og Harley Quinn voice is within reach
Absolutely agree R.I.P. Kevin and Arleen
This dynamic is a different kind of toxic love than the usual abuse. Enabler of Chaos x Seeker of Chaos.
I think the version from "The Batman" sort of makes more sense because they showcase that she always had a playful exterior, whereas the one in "Batman: The Animated Series" make her civilian counterpart feel like a totally different person. Harleen Quinzel didn't even seem to have much of an accent in the "Batman: The Animated Series" origin story, but then she suddenly develops one when she adopts the Harley Quinn persona.
Could be she was hiding her accent to come off more professional in the working world. Code switching is a thing.
@manjackson2772 Yeah, well, in the episode where they go into Bruce Wayne's head in Harley's spin-off show, they seem to imply that she was faking the acent.
There’s a comic where at one point Harley tells Ivy that she was putting on an accent to sound like Lucy from I Love Lucy because the Joker watched old comedy television and once told her that a woman like that sounded like someone he could love.
I genuinely liked this take on Harley. And show. Just really good stuff.
I really want to talk about 'Caped Crusaders' take on Harley Quinn. Especially with how she uses a rigid enforcement of rules to break her victims.
I feel like she's being set up to a foil to the Jokers "Chaos is the joke" with her own twist of "Order is the joke."
I'd love to see a video on this, too. Maybe once Season 2 comes out and she's gotten more screen time as Harley Quinn.
She's such a radically different take I'm tempted to say she's a wholly new character that just borrows a few details from Harley. But that doesn't mean she isn't an awesome character in her own right -- her design alone is amazing.
the 3 Harley
Btas: The Abused one
2004: The "Fun" One
Caped: The Serious one.
wonder how they would "bounce off one another" were they to meet.
The Batman as a whole definitely deserves more love. It's beautiful and dynamic and a fun interpretation of the characters. This Harley as well, and I think Hynden Walch should be Harley more often ❤️
What could have been a neat plot twist to "Two of a kind" would have been if it ended with Harley escaping, and the Joker being left behind to be captured.
I like the idea of a Harley who was always bad on the inside and just needed the Joker to show her how to break free of the shackles of society. I'd have liked to see them go all in on Harley and Joker as a criminal power couple.
I really liked the duet with Joker, as I already liked the song and it fitted perfectly
Personally I think the good in HarleyXJoker is mandatory, even if you wanna have them not together for a serries, as much as this sounds counter intuitive, it makes her seem less crazy if there's good in him that he shows her, even if he's faking it, it gives her a reason to stay so "She could fix him" which if you're in a relationship with that mindset it's not a good thing and you can't, but that's part of the tragic relatability of her.
Haven’t seen that “Rules Everywhere” meme in like a decade. Brings me back
Hynden Walch is my favorite Harley Quinn voice actress! She sounds like Starfire having Red Kryptonite on her.
One of my favorite versions of Harley (Who doesn't enjoy the big hat, so much fanart gives her the big hat again) and Hynden Walch is probably my second favorite voice to take the role right after Arleen Sorkin.
This was my favorite version of Harley and Joker. Although they backtracked a bit with him threatening to hit her, it was nice seeing Harley in more of a toxic/loving relationship than just being Joker's punching bag or "used to be" punching bag like in the newer versions.
Man, Hynden Walch really is phenomonal as Harley whenever I hear her, and I wish DC would hire her more often. Honestly, she's great in every DC project she's in.
DC used her for Assault on Arkham I believe.
@@personaldove It's funny, I recently watched Assault on Arkham. Much better film than I was led to believe, and she was indeed Harley in it.
@@camerondodge2070 I see her as the perfect successor to Arleen Sorkin.
No one does it better than her in capturing her accent and insanity.
The rest are terrible.
And yes, AoA was an amazing movie.
I always liked this version of Harley's origin. It is a great masterclass in how to adapt an origin and make it unique. It took the core parts of Harley's backstory and put a unique and refreshing twist on it, rather than just regurgitating Mad Love.
This is my favourite version of Harley Quinn. She does enough to make herself distinct whilst keeping what made the original so iconic. Also she keeps the bloody costume that everyone post-Arkham Asylum keeps removing.
I like this Harley and Joker. Shame they had very little episodes.
Honestly, I really liked this show's take on Harley. Dont get me wrong, Arleen Sorkin will always be my favourite Harley Quinn; however, I think this take on her being a former TV show psychiatrist is a unique reinvention that keeps her origin as a therapist while finding a new way to tie her to the Joker. I do like how they establish how this Harley is just as chaotic and not willing to take people's s*** as she is misguided and naive such as how she tames Joker's hyenas, yet she still falls for Joker's manipulation as he just uses her as a tool to have fun while also manipulating her vulnerability and resentment over her former tv executive boss's to fuel her hatred and once she gets in trouble he ditches her even though he still chooses to keep her around because she's always been entertainment to him both on TV or in real life Harley Quinn is just Joker's jester whenever he gets bored and sadly Harley fails to see how far shes let her hatred get to her, and now shes stuck a the Joker's lapdog
Maintaining character while singing is a core tenet of voice acting. Every voice actor does it with every role they recieve.
My second favorite Harley Quinn after Batman TAS. I love when Harley is a bit more villainous, while also having sympathetic elements, plus her and Joker have a fun relationship here
As someone who’s definitely felt the Harley Quinn burnout, I appreciate this version for doing something a bit different with the character.
The Batman and Kevin Conroy's Batman in JL/JLU were both the Batmen I grew up with originally which is crazy to think about in retrospect. The Batman's version of Barbara Gordon was actually the first version I ever saw. I loved this version of Harley.
Batgirl of The Batman needs mad love.
The perfect Barbara Gordon.
@@personaldove Was that pun intentional? 👽
Loved The Batman growing up it overall deserves more but I remember their Harley being a standout to me as a kid.
Honestly I just really like Hynden Walch's Harley voice, it's got its own unique sorta tinge to it while still being immediately recognizable as a Harley voice.
The answer is yes! She's great I love the more mature vibe she has especially when paired with Ivy in the comics who is a kid. Also I think Hynden does a better Harley voice than Tara which can be seen better in Assault on Arkham!
Between this and the Harley in the new Batman show, it’s reminding of that TellTale Batman game where Harley and Joker’s positions are reversed, and Harley turns a lovesick Joker (Joe Kerr or smth like that?) into a villain. Or had the potential to - it was one of those early branching story games. I never played it myself, just watched a playthrough, but I’d love to hear your take on that interpretation, back when the Harley Hype was just revving up.
Love this sort of compare/contrast for different takes on the same story.
I wish we could've gotten more episodes with this version. Also Hyden is the only VA that's actually close to Arleen's version.
It is amazing how many times could Paul Dini tell her origin. Not only in Mad Love (and later retold in B:TAS), here in The Batman but also in the comic that introduces her officially in the DC Universe.
As for this version I didn´t mind. In fact, I do also like the TV series Birds of Prey and her version of her as well.
This was my first introduction to Harley as a kid and I even made an amv of the episode on my old RUclips channel. Like a lot of things on The Batman, I think this portrayal was a bit too soon after the Diniverse and would be appreciated more if it came out now.
12:44 that Oh yeah guitar riff killed me xD
Even the background music thirsty
Joker and Harley - Setting the woods on fire!
Paul Dini remixing Paul Dini is so much better than a new person creating new elements.
It’s the version of Harley Quinn that made me think that Hynden Walch is the true successor to Arleen Sorkin. She’s the second known VA to voice Harley and she gives her an accent that Arleen started. She’s underrated and she needs to voice her more!!
Also really love Harley’s costume in this show! It’s honestly perfect!
Interestingly enough, they actually also used that talk show host concept recently in the Batman 89 comic run, Echoes. Overall I liked this Harley, also a fan of the subtle black and red eye shadow you got! Never miss a moment to stay on theme
It was love at first sight for me. And I first seen her in her original debut batman TAS. Loved Harley's day out.
Long time watcher, first time commenter.
I usually don't consider commenting but you asked asked if there was an episode of something we want you to take a look at.
I'm not as avid a comic fan as much as I am an animation fan. I'm not ashamed to say that most of my comic knowledge comes from watching your videos lol (love the Lois Lane vids, those comics are so unhinged lmao)
That said, I'd really love to hear your takes on the Invincible show. I've seen that you have the comics in the background of your videos but I don't think I've heard you actually speak about them.
Anyway, love the content! Keep up the good work!
This was my first introduction to Harley ❤️ so this verison I will always have soft spot for
I will always adore the giant jester hat
And I always find Joker and Harley relationship in the show as healthy 😅 as thoses two can be.
I love the giant jester hat in this version as well!
I agree 😅 both have their unique points. I did enjoy both
The Batman needs more love period.
Overall I find this Harley really fun, she seems like she’d thrive off the drama of reality tv if given the chance. If she ever split from the joker it’d probably be because she’d just wanna strike out on her own and reinvent herself as a proper villain, using tv or streaming to show off her crimes as reference to her armchair psychology days. I’m always going to love classic BTAS Harley but I love that writers can experiment with her with fewer restrictions.
The Harley Quinn show takes her from a victimized self destructive jerk to a girl boss healing from her shitty relationship.
Caped crusader has her as a stand-alone villain honing in on her psychology skills and how fucking terrifying of a force she can be.
There are multiple angles and aspects you can focus in on with her as a writer and regardless of which you choose it’s gonna be interesting.
When The Batman is discussed, I'll always want "Artifacts" to be covered. That and the Spellbinder Episode, I think called "The Butler Did It"
I really liked The Batman. It was such a great show.
9:38 - what happened to Harley's organs!? She became a twisty straw!
I wish it had gone on just a little longer so Harley and Ivy could be be introduced to each other 😭
Harley Quinn Burnout! needs to be on a shirt I'd totally buy it.
ICONIC HARLEY, ICONICCC JOKER, theyre lowkey my fave version of the couple. It was groundbreaking that shes the one manipulating him to get what she wants, hes the one obsessed, and they play each other; but its a nice platonic way in which theyre both having fun and not super abusive like say, in the Telltale game (on Harleys part, or on every other version on Jokers)-
I love this version of the characters so so much
also their designs are toptier, they cant be recreated irl and I love that part of the shows vibe
Justice for Punch and Judy ✊️
Everyone has that special place in their heart for the first batman cartoon they saw. While I love the animated series and its objectively the best batman series, I will always love the batman as the version I grew up with.
Having watched The Batman recently, yeah she deserves way more attention. I also much prefer her voice over Taras
I stopped watching The Batman after Batgirl. Not because I wasn't interested. They changed the time it was on and I couldn't find it anymore so I gave up. Then I found out Robin was a thing Superman happened and a bunch of other stuff was going down and was like WTF did I miss?!
She could use a little more love. I do like that this version of Joker and Harley got to have a decent relationship here. Also Hynden Walch's voice is pretty good.
The most unrealistic part of this episode is the TV executive having any moral standards and cancelling Harleen’s trashy show.
I liked this take on HQ: pop psychologist on TV. Clever. And this origin is better than the New 52 one, where she got dunk in the same chemicals that created Joker.
Please talk about D.A.V.E. if you get a chance. Fascinating concept for a villain from this show
Love that you cover this series so thoroughly! I remember liking this version of Harley as a kid. Also, this Batman has a lot of quote-y fingers world's greatest detective moments lol. Me and my brother's favorite of those is from the TV movie The Batman vs. Dracula where Bruce meets Dracula at a party, who introduces himself as Alucard. Then Bruce takes a serving tray and some lipstick to write Alucard out and put it up to a mirror having a revelation himself (as well as showing the audience) that Alucard is just Dracula backwards 😂😂
You mentioned being interest in a "Joker more interested in her, making her more dangerous." So, like the TellTale games?
She's definitely one of my favorite incarnations of the character. I love her design(keeping with the Jester theme unlike most other versions since), Hynden Walch's performance(who is my 2nd favorite voice next to the late, great Arleen Sorkin) & Paul Dini writing her debut episode. I remember being excited when they revealed the summary for it in back in the day & and as soon as it popped up online, I had to watch it & it didn't disappoint.
I’d love to see you cover Telltale Batman, Beware the Batman and/or the Arrowverse
Let me see hot looking blonde ✅
Love with a psycho ✅
Willing to destroy Gotham✅
Outta control at times✅
Has more common sense than joker✅
🙃yup she needs to go inside with rest of the psychos
🤔I could mention the time she hit it off with Batman personal on my fav comics
This Harley design has always been my favorite. The more exaggerated, cartoonish look really suits her :D
The biggest issue I have with this is her lack of appearances, this is honestly the biggest crime of The Batman (2004), they had really cool and interesting character concepts, but a lot of the time they didn't build or expand on them with some character serving nothing more than just a villain of the week. Heck, by the time they introduced the Justice League they essentially dropped batgirl for the most party, despite the fact she was first on the show.
And Harley is a fantastic example of this, she was similar to BTAS Harley, but was also her own unique individual, however, they didn't spend more episodes establishing her as that unique individual and her relationship with the Joker, like you said, they show a sign of the abusive relationship and some of the Joker's comments so when it came to the comic run, they just presumed she was 1 to 1 like Harley from the BTAS. And increased the more crueller parts of their relationship, because she was just a background/cameo character, she became a goon.
This cartoon needs more love. Nothing was more exciting than getting MORE animated Batman in the 2000’s ontop of BTAS
I think I prefer Hynden Walch's Harley performances over Tara Strong's. Strong's Harley voice tends to edge a bit too much into shrill.
I kinda vibed with the TV show host angle in The Batman as well. Though I do much prefer TAS origin (I hate the bit in the mad love comic where she sleeps her way through her degree, undermines what she can do).
Much too high pitched and obnoxiously squeaky.
Well, with this, I'd love to hear your thoughts on a third retelling of Harley's origin: the Spotify DC audio drama, "Harley Quinn & the Joker: Sound Mind."
That is a fascinating tale on the origin because the Joker (Billy Magnussen) seems to genuinely be in love with her, while (Christina Ricci) is the one in charge, pulling the strings, manipulating things
Mad Love is such a great story. It upsets me when people say Harley Quinn was never a good character.
0:37: Hence the 2004 and 2022 designations. Still, beats the Star Wars: Tale of the Jedi debacle.
Still think the Bat-Embargo was more beneficial in hindsight. All those adaptational resourcefulness makes things refreshing, and besides, later works like Batman: Arkham Shadow did end up following suit with moments like having Barbara Gordon being Oracle BEFORE becoming Batgirl.
4:21: Nope, not a Two-Face ep, hehe.
12:48: Song's a bit obscure, so how should the copyrights care when compared to THE MUSIC MEISTER????????
12:52: And no need to have different people be the singing voices too.
Can easily believe that this Harley's self-assertiveness will make her quite a worthy successor to the Joker in case he maybe croaks someday. Said self-assertiveness will also not make her a potential Task Force X member simply because she'll be too rowdy for them.
That's the thing about Hynden Walch, she somehow nails her voice roles at multiple emotional ranges, as seen with Teen Titans' Starfire and Adventure Time's Princess Bonnibel Bubblegum, and she even superlatively dubbed the likes of Gurren Lagaan's younger Nia Teppelin (but not the older self and the iteration from the compilation films, who's voiced by Bridget Hoffman) and The Tale of Princess Kaguya's Me no Warawa. Small wonder one can hear Arleen Sorkin levels of chutzpah in Hynden's Harley Quinn roles here and in Assault on Arkham.
Heck, she even steals the spotlight as bit character Debbie from the live action classic Groundhog Day, who's also a fiancee to some guy played by Michael Shannon... yes, the movie paired up Starfire with the future Man of Steel's General Zod.
i like the older versions of Harley where she is with the joker because it showed how Joker could be cruel in ways that weren't just cartoonishly evil or as a foil to Batman he was a genuinely bad person who hurt even the people who cared about him most
I really liked that version of Harley. And again I love how The Batman looks aesthetically so much. Harley Quinn's costume just pops so much here that I feel isn't the case in other portrayals. I think the more emphasis on the hat just gives Harley that extra bit of OOMF.
It's a shame this Harley Quinn didn't team up with Poison Ivy on this show.
Probely becuase of the age gap. Poisen Ivy is the same age Batgirl in this series. By the time season 4 happen, Batgirl study at the local university....
Ive always been surprised how this Harley has never been that popular considering its one of the only times where Joker actually seems to like Harley
And in this take he _genuinely_ likes her, as opposed to stuff like Harley Quinn and/or Suicide Squad where it's more of him seeing her as a toy or prop that he just doesn't want anyone else playing with.
I don't get why this show doesn't get as much attention as the others. But I has seen more of it on this site recently.
HARLEEN is the definitive Harley Quinn origin story.
I like her design in this.
She is the more Equal to Joker that her modern versions
Joker's facial expressions in this one really catch my eye. It's interestingly different to see him having fun and enjoying it without being psychotic at the same time.
I'm glad you've highlighted The Batman like this. I dismissed it when it was new because of the gimmicky toy-selling stuff like bat-wave and whatnot, but it's good to know there was substance there as it went. I'll have to check it out at some point, at least the highlights.
12:50 oh but I WILL play it, Gonna pause this real quick and listen to the montage, I love that montage.
This series still remains one of my top Superhero cartoons, with this Joker fighting for the top spot in my heart. The fact that I can actually see this Joker and Harley keeping a long term and twisted but loving relationship is something that I do like
That was thy last animated HQ that WB did right before SQ ruined her forever and ever...
The Batman has like almost every single if my favorite designs the characters