ok, so here's my stumbling block. the procession or generation part... If I understand right the contemplation (so to say, the wisdom) of the Father himself generates the known, the word Jesus, and then the manifestation of love between the knower and then known (father and son) is the Holy Spirit now, my argument is, wouldn't generation mean non-existence at a certain point of eternity ?... meaning therefore non-eternal?
This is St Thomas Aquinas' answer from His Summa The procession of the Word in God is called generation. In proof whereof we must observe that generation has a twofold meaning: one common to everything subject to generation and corruption; in which sense generation is nothing but change from non-existence to existence. In another sense it is proper and belongs to living things; in which sense it signifies the origin of a living being from a conjoined living principle; and this is properly called birth. Not everything of that kind, however, is called begotten; but, strictly speaking, only what proceeds by way of similitude. Hence a hair has not the aspect of generation and sonship, but only that has which proceeds by way of a similitude. Nor will any likeness suffice; for a worm which is generated from animals has not the aspect of generation and sonship, although it has a generic similitude; for this kind of generation requires that there should be a procession by way of similitude in the same specific nature; as a man proceeds from a man, and a horse from a horse. So in living things, which proceed from potential to actual life, such as men and animals, generation includes both these kinds of generation. But if there is a being whose life does not proceed from potentiality to act, procession (if found in such a being) excludes entirely the first kind of generation; whereas it may have that kind of generation which belongs to living things. So in this manner the procession of the Word in God is generation; for He proceeds by way of intelligible action, which is a vital operation:---from a conjoined principle (as above described):---by way of similitude, inasmuch as the concept of the intellect is a likeness of the object conceived:---and exists in the same nature, because in God the act of understanding and His existence are the same, as shown above (Q[14], A[4]). Hence the procession of the Word in God is called generation; and the Word Himself proceeding is called the Son.
Therefore as far as I understand your question is "Generation is change from non-existence to existence, and is opposed to corruption; while matter is the subject of both. Nothing of all this belongs to God. Therefore generation cannot exist in God" and it refers to the the idea of procession in the sense of local motion, or of an action tending to external matter, or to an exterior effect; which kind of procession according to St Thomas (as far as I understood) does not exist in God.
OPINION : SOMEONE FEEL : ONLY CHRISTIANITY CAN CONVERT PEOPLE . OTHER BELIEFS CANNOT CONVERT ONE ANOTHER; THAT IS WHAT GOD IN HEAVEN WANTS . THAT MAY WANT A PARISH PRIEST TO BE CELIBATE ; MAY GIVE HIM PEACE OF MIND; AND SAINTLY HAPPY . ****** **** ******
Angels have no imagination: how did he arrive at that? And can we at least call God the "Holy Spirit" and not the "Holy Ghost." He does not go around haunting people, which is the primary meaning of "ghost" in our day.
From the Father proceeds the Son and from the Son proceeds the Holy Ghost. The 'mind' of God IS the Son and as the Son puts His mind to 'work' and that work being perpetual IS the Holy Ghost the doer of all things.
The easiest way to defend the trinity is to compare it with what the Bible says about God. If the two agree 100%, then that should confirm that the trinity is based squarely on Scripture. But is that the case? Well, judge for yourself: 1a. THE BIBLE says the Father-a single person-is the “only true God.” (John 17:3). 1b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “every Person [of the trinity] BY HIMSELF [is] God.” That’s THREE GODS! 2a. THE BIBLE says that “for us there is one God, the Father." (1 Cor. 8:6) 2b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “we worship one God IN TRINITY.” 3a. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John 14:28) 3b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “In this trinity, NONE is greater…” 4a. THE BIBLE says Jesus is the Son of God. (John 20:31) 4b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “Jesus IS God,” which makes him a different God from the “one God in trinity." 5a. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John 14:28) 5b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE say that “the whole three persons [of the trinity] are “co-equal.” 6a. THE BIBLE says the holy spirit is not God, but a possession of God and that he gives it to deserving ones. As 1 Thess. 4:8 says: “Therefore, whoever disregards this, disregards not a human being but God, who (also) gives HIS holy Spirit to you.” 6b.THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “the holy spirit IS God.” However, A Catholic Dictionary says: “On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power.” It adds: “The majority of New Testament texts reveal God’s spirit as someTHING, not someONE.” 7a. THE BIBLE says that the Father is the ONLY person that “the true worshipers” (Christians) should worship. (John 4:23) 7b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “The trinity in unity is to be worshiped.” So, do the Bible and the Catholic trinity doctrine agree on who God is? Absolutely not! As the New Catholic Encyclopedia says, the trinity “is NOT directly and immediately the Word of God.”
@@marcokite It's one thing to say scriptures are taken out of context, but, it's another thing to prove it, which you obviously didn't do. "The Bible clearly teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God." Wrong again. What you said above didn't come from the Bible. Instead, it came almost word for word from a Catholic creed. As The Catholic Encyclopedia says: "in the words of the Athanasian Creed: ‘the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God." Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus teach that there are three Gods or even three persons in the same one God. Instead, he referred to his Father--a single person--as "the only true God." (John 17:3) The word "only" means, "to the exclusion of others." Since Jesus' Father is the true God to the exclusion of others, how many other true Gods can there be? Answer: NONE!! One other thing. If I said that John is my friend, Bill is my friend, and Larry is my friend, how many friends do I have? One friend or three friends?
@@cbooth151 Read me John 10:30, John 1:1-5, and Revelation 22:13; you conveniently left out these verses you deceiver. Also, read me 1 Timothy 3:15 instead of pridefully implying that you know the truth over the ground and pillar of truth.
@@cbooth151 Did you even watch the video? What part of one divine essence and three persons did you not understand? Are you just too much of a complete moron to understand it, why didn’t you just admit that instead of pretending like you know what you don’t?
You also committed the straw man fallacy, those descriptions of the Holy Trinity is what anti-Trinitarians make up, those are not our arguments, you just argued an imaginary opponent like a complete idiot.
1/ nothing anti Biblical in this excellent talk 2/ it is in fact based on the Bible especially i would say St John's Gospel 3/ only those who believe Luther's lies think EVERYTHING about our Faith is in the Bible
@@approvedofGod - If you were to research, even a small degree of looking would tell you that you are mistaken. it's interesting that you know better than the Church, the Body of Christ under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit for the last 2,000 years. perhaps if you did even a little research you would see this.
@@marcokite Did the Holy Spirit guide the Church (according to you), to persecute and kill? Did the Holy Spirit guide Catholics to add man-made doctrines and traditions, that would invalidate the actual gospel of Jesus Christ?
@@approvedofGod - all Christians believe the Holy Spirit guides the Church in her teaching of doctrine, dogma and tradition..it is not 'according to me', this is not about my personal opinions, you have misapprehended. as no 'man made' doctrines have ever been added to the teachings of the Catholic Church your question is an irrelevance. lastly you need to be more specific about the persecution and killing. Holy Church has never taught we can go around killing. if you are referring to the actions of individuals or groups of individuals who regarded themselves as part of the Church (even popes and bishops) then you are not referring to the Mystical Body of Christ; the Church but sinful persons within the institutional Church, another misapprehension on your part Approved. if you did even a little research you would see this.
With heart- felt gratitude, thank you for your amazing teaching on the Theology of the Holy Trinity🙏🏻❤️
Incredible lecture...
One of the best explanation on Trinity...
Who is this priest?
I think its the best found on youtube...
yepp who is this priest and is it possible to get his email?
Perfect lectures for our times.
Thank you!!
We need this in a book format, and this book needs to become a bestseller, pleeeease!
God bless you for posting this!
Thank you very much for posting this lecture. It is very informative, very well explained. I understood it much more clearly.
“If Jesus could’ve gave us a better gift than the Eucharist, he would have.”
St. John Vianney
God bless you Father.
Veritas (truth) precedes Caritas (love). Not the other way around.
ok, so here's my stumbling block. the procession or generation part...
If I understand right the contemplation (so to say, the wisdom) of the Father himself generates the known, the word Jesus,
and then the manifestation of love between the knower and then known (father and son) is the Holy Spirit
now, my argument is, wouldn't generation mean non-existence at a certain point of eternity ?... meaning therefore non-eternal?
This is St Thomas Aquinas' answer from His Summa
The procession of the Word in God is called generation.
In proof whereof we must observe that generation has a twofold meaning:
one common to everything subject to generation and corruption; in which sense generation is nothing but change from non-existence to existence.
In another sense it is proper and belongs to living things; in which sense it signifies the origin of a
living being from a conjoined living principle; and this is properly called birth.
Not everything of that kind, however, is called begotten; but, strictly speaking, only what proceeds by way of similitude. Hence a hair has not the aspect of generation and sonship, but only that has which proceeds by way
of a similitude. Nor will any likeness suffice; for a worm which is generated from animals has not
the aspect of generation and sonship, although it has a generic similitude;
for this kind of generation requires that there should be a procession by way of similitude in the same specific nature; as a man proceeds from a man, and a horse from a horse.
So in living things, which proceed from potential to actual life, such as men and animals, generation includes both these kinds of generation.
But if there is a being whose life does not proceed from potentiality to act, procession (if found in
such a being) excludes entirely the first kind of generation; whereas it may have that kind of
generation which belongs to living things. So in this manner the procession of the Word in God is
generation; for He proceeds by way of intelligible action, which is a vital operation:---from a
conjoined principle (as above described):---by way of similitude, inasmuch as the concept of the
intellect is a likeness of the object conceived:---and exists in the same nature, because in God the
act of understanding and His existence are the same, as shown above (Q[14], A[4]).
Hence the procession of the Word in God is called generation; and the Word Himself proceeding is called the
Son.
Therefore as far as I understand your question is
"Generation is change from non-existence to existence, and is opposed to corruption; while matter is the subject
of both. Nothing of all this belongs to God. Therefore generation cannot exist in God"
and it refers to the the idea of
procession in the sense of local motion, or of an action tending to external matter, or to an exterior effect; which kind of procession according to St Thomas (as far as I understood) does not exist in God.
Does anyone know who this priest is?
Kindly explain - 2 processions? 4 - relations, and 5 notions. How?
OPINION :
SOMEONE FEEL :
ONLY CHRISTIANITY CAN CONVERT PEOPLE .
OTHER BELIEFS CANNOT CONVERT ONE ANOTHER; THAT IS WHAT GOD IN HEAVEN WANTS .
THAT MAY WANT A PARISH PRIEST TO BE CELIBATE ; MAY GIVE HIM PEACE OF MIND; AND SAINTLY HAPPY .
****** **** ******
Angels have no imagination: how did he arrive at that?
And can we at least call God the "Holy Spirit" and not the "Holy Ghost." He does not go around haunting people, which is the primary meaning of "ghost" in our day.
From the Father proceeds the Son and from the Son proceeds the Holy Ghost. The 'mind' of God IS the Son and as the Son puts His mind to 'work' and that work being perpetual IS the Holy Ghost the doer of all things.
no - the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father AND the Son
marcokite it is to say the same. one continuum. Undivided. inseparably. yet distinct
@@elrico1364 - well no, it is crucial that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father AND the Son - it is NOT a continuum as the video explains.
marcokite i do not.. did not suggest to the contrary. Of course there is Absolute Oneness. I agree with the procession of persons.
The easiest way to defend the trinity is to compare it with what the Bible says about God. If the two agree 100%, then that should confirm that the trinity is based squarely on Scripture. But is that the case? Well, judge for yourself:
1a. THE BIBLE says the Father-a single person-is the “only true God.” (John 17:3).
1b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “every Person [of the trinity] BY HIMSELF [is] God.” That’s THREE GODS!
2a. THE BIBLE says that “for us there is one God, the Father." (1 Cor. 8:6)
2b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “we worship one God IN TRINITY.”
3a. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John 14:28)
3b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “In this trinity, NONE is greater…”
4a. THE BIBLE says Jesus is the Son of God. (John 20:31)
4b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “Jesus IS God,” which makes him a different God from the “one God in trinity."
5a. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John 14:28)
5b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE say that “the whole three persons [of the trinity] are “co-equal.”
6a. THE BIBLE says the holy spirit is not God, but a possession of God and that he gives it to deserving ones. As 1 Thess. 4:8 says: “Therefore, whoever disregards this, disregards not a human being but God, who (also) gives HIS holy Spirit to you.”
6b.THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “the holy spirit IS God.” However, A Catholic Dictionary says: “On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power.” It adds: “The majority of New Testament texts reveal God’s spirit as someTHING, not someONE.”
7a. THE BIBLE says that the Father is the ONLY person that “the true worshipers” (Christians) should worship. (John 4:23)
7b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “The trinity in unity is to be worshiped.”
So, do the Bible and the Catholic trinity doctrine agree on who God is? Absolutely not! As the New Catholic Encyclopedia says, the trinity “is NOT directly and immediately the Word of God.”
the Bible clearly teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God. all of the above quotations are out of context
@@marcokite It's one thing to say scriptures are taken out of context, but, it's another thing to prove it, which you obviously didn't do.
"The Bible clearly teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God."
Wrong again. What you said above didn't come from the Bible. Instead, it came almost word for word from a Catholic creed. As The Catholic Encyclopedia says: "in the words of the Athanasian Creed: ‘the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God." Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus teach that there are three Gods or even three persons in the same one God. Instead, he referred to his Father--a single person--as "the only true God." (John 17:3) The word "only" means, "to the exclusion of others." Since Jesus' Father is the true God to the exclusion of others, how many other true Gods can there be? Answer: NONE!!
One other thing. If I said that John is my friend, Bill is my friend, and Larry is my friend, how many friends do I have? One friend or three friends?
@@cbooth151 Read me John 10:30, John 1:1-5, and Revelation 22:13; you conveniently left out these verses you deceiver. Also, read me 1 Timothy 3:15 instead of pridefully implying that you know the truth over the ground and pillar of truth.
@@cbooth151 Did you even watch the video? What part of one divine essence and three persons did you not understand? Are you just too much of a complete moron to understand it, why didn’t you just admit that instead of pretending like you know what you don’t?
You also committed the straw man fallacy, those descriptions of the Holy Trinity is what anti-Trinitarians make up, those are not our arguments, you just argued an imaginary opponent like a complete idiot.
The most anti-biblical teaching on the Trinity I have ever heard. Leave it to philosophers in religious garb.
1/ nothing anti Biblical in this excellent talk 2/ it is in fact based on the Bible especially i would say St John's Gospel 3/ only those who believe Luther's lies think EVERYTHING about our Faith is in the Bible
@@marcokite
If you were to research, even a small degree of looking would tell you that you are mistaken.
@@approvedofGod - If you were to research, even a small degree of looking would tell you that you are mistaken. it's interesting that you know better than the Church, the Body of Christ under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit for the last 2,000 years. perhaps if you did even a little research you would see this.
@@marcokite
Did the Holy Spirit guide the Church (according to you), to persecute and kill? Did the Holy Spirit guide Catholics to add man-made doctrines and traditions, that would invalidate the actual gospel of Jesus Christ?
@@approvedofGod - all Christians believe the Holy Spirit guides the Church in her teaching of doctrine, dogma and tradition..it is not 'according to me', this is not about my personal opinions, you have misapprehended. as no 'man made' doctrines have ever been added to the teachings of the Catholic Church your question is an irrelevance. lastly you need to be more specific about the persecution and killing. Holy Church has never taught we can go around killing. if you are referring to the actions of individuals or groups of individuals who regarded themselves as part of the Church (even popes and bishops) then you are not referring to the Mystical Body of Christ; the Church but sinful persons within the institutional Church, another misapprehension on your part Approved. if you did even a little research you would see this.
“If Jesus could’ve gave us a better gift than the Eucharist, He would have.”
St John Vianney