fiction including sci fi should not be viewed threw a lens of logic or science, but by the lore of that world's fiction now does Holdo Maneuver make sense in the star was lore, i don't think so, i think they should have done a regular none warp drive crash and it would have uncontroversial in regards to the world's lore.
hyperspace was basically another dimension, there was no interaction with the real world. this is supported by the scene in ANH where they emerge in an asteroid field. if the holdo maneuver was possible, then a tiny rock could mean the end of your journey. it literally breaks the universe.
What about the scene in ep1 where solo is talking about hyperdrive calculations and how important it is to get it right so they don’t slam into a super nova?
@@BullThunder i think hes talking about the exit point, not the travel itself. according to some of the books hypertravel can be interrupted by objects with a lot of gravity, but that would make it almost useless, since there are so many big objects out there
Visually cool scene, undeniable. But it does break canon. If it was that effective of a strategy why didn’t they sacrifice a few large starships against the 2nd Death Star in RoTJ. Seems like a pretty good trade, and the argument that “she was the first to think of it” is just flat out bullsh*t. 8,000+ years of hyperspace travel and she is the FIRST to try this. Nah. Ryan Johnson just wanted a visually cool scene and give his “strong independent woman” some heroic death. I remember seeing the scene and thinking “unintentional fan service and the only good part of this movie”
My second issue is it fundamentally breaks everything we know and have seen about hyperspace travel within its own logic we would constantly be crashing into planets stars and other spaceships if it's a one in a million odds there are more than a million ships on coruscant alone there should constantly be explosions in the sky
My third point the holdo maneuver could have been done without the methods they used you could have easily used hyperspace to get close to a main frigate fill up your ship with explosive material explode and distract the army enough to escape Or you could have strung along multiple ships together with literally ropes and send them on a crash course
Okay so my first issue with that is in the next movie they say it's a one-in-a-million shot why is that they never explain why and also why is she so confident in it if this is this plan she came up with And why can no one else execute it in terms of storytelling you're telling me that it happened just because for no reason and assuming that it does exist even if the odds are insane the fact we have never seen it since I highly doubt there are millions of people willing to revolt against the first order but we never seen one of them in movies or comics pull off that maneuver again no matter how desperate they are
Hey, its the guy that comments a lot. Im not going to go wild in this one just wanted to say keep up the good work on the video's. You guys are very entertaining. Waiting for the day you get Starwars Theory on here
The problem I have with it is that even though Star Wars is a science fiction franchise, it still abides by our understanding of physics to a degree. The fact that the ship breaks into a hundred pieces and conveniently crashes into every single ship makes absolutely no sense. I could understand it breaking the main ship in half but the rest of the ships being destroyed feels like a preview of the acolyte (as in Disney as no clue what the Star Wars cannon continuity is really about and makes whatever content fit their narrative, they simply needed a progressive lady being the hero in the scenario, I don't mind it but it does feel forced) I agree with the argument that if some random purple haired lady thinks of doing it first instead of countless legendary generals during the clone wars and even then thousands of years before, it de-legitimizes every general that were supposed to be geniuses (cause let's be honest, it ain't that hard to think of ramming your vessel into another, the Romans and Carthaginians used this as one of their first tactics for naval warfare) P.S: Reddit Robbie has done it again with the random reddit posts to try to prove a point lol (I love it please keep doing it, I love watching Finn go nuts)
Incorrect. The ships were grouped together. When Holdo's ship hit the first one, it was in a state of acceleration, then when it hit the first vessel, it fragmented, and the pieces of both her ship and the ship she crashed into scattered, also accelerated, into the the other ships. Have you ever seen the film "Gravity"? Think of it like that. As for why it was never used, probably because ships are expensive, and it's not just a great tactic outside of desperation. As for the rest, "Star Wars" on the whole is wildly inconsistent with how the internal logic of the world is. Why build a Death Star when all you need to do is grab a couple of rocks from space and just throw them into the planet you want to destroy? It's a series about space wizards and samurai. I am less concerned about the scientific consistency in that universe than I am in STORY consistency. In that regard, the sequels were, for the most part, complete shit. Ironically, though everyone hates it, the only film that seemed to give a damn about the original films, and George's ideas, was "The Last Jedi". Not that TLJ was amazing, but it did do more to acknowledge the consequences of the prequels, the arrogance of the Jedi, and how that led to the fall of the Republic, but it also tapped into more of the Japanese and Buddhist inspirations behind the force and the Jedi. If I remember right, there was also a bit of lore that came out around the same time as the film that mentioned that it wasn't the ship itself that did the damage, but the experimental shields it used. Of course, as with everything that might have been exlainable as a one-off, J.J Abrams had to ruin that by showing more Holdo Maneuvers being pulled off in that last awful film.
@@realtsavo I agree with most of what you said. The only issue (if we could even call it that) I have with it is that at those speeds without the shields you were referring to (since we can assume the shields turned "off" since it was destroyed as soon as the Holdo's ship collided with the first one) should basically vaporize. I have also seen the theory about the shield causing the damage and frankly this explanation makes much more sense to me. Since, as you said, there are a lot of scientific inconsistencies (and shit that doesn't make sense any way you slice it), I believe it's better to think of it as a matter of opinion and taste and what you would like to see happen in your favourite movie franchise rather than right or wrong. I think we both agree that this is the nerdiest conversation ever (particularly regarding the scientific consistency) and the story aspect of it is much more important. I personally didn't like the sequels for basically everything you said. I would however add that it lacks political direction (which made the originals and prequels so damn good) The originals were about asymmetrical warfare (greatly inspired by the vietnam war) and the fight for "democracy" and the freedom to choose who governs you. The prequels to me were even more interesting from a political standpoint since it was basically a blueprint for how a democracy turns into a dictatorship and as padme famously said: How liberty dies. Cheers friend!
@@thomaspellerin2488 In response to the vaporization comment, I think that would depend on at which speed the ship was at when it broke up, if we (reasonably) assume that the jump is not instantaneous. Either way, I completely agree with everything else you said, and would add that if you can get your hands on the extended fanedits of the prequels, they get even better, and do a better job of making that point. I lived in China for several years, and after escaping to Japan when things got to dangerous, ended up watching the extended prequels with a buddy of mine who is still in China (much safer position, for now), and comparing a lot of what was covered in those films to both Chinese history and the rise of authoritarianism in general.
What does the move mean for SW? Nothing. Sending yourself on a suicide mission to do that is a last resort effort, considering the money and resources to build that ship in the first place. No one else has/would want to do it again because it’s legitimately not a good strategy unless it’s a last ditch effort
If hyperspace goes as fast as the speed of light, only 1 x wing would be needed to destroy planets. There are tons of games on steam that allow you to play with physics like this. So I agree, it is extremely stupid, it should not be in the lore
The problem with it is that it just ruins the whole original trilogy and rogue one as the rebellion could've just sent a few ships at the death star 1 and 2 and just destroyed it with no casualties by using droid pilots. Its a visually stunning scene dont get me wrong however the ships splitting down the middle makes no sense. Regardless that star wars doesn't follow real world science and physics, it does follow common sense on what would happen in the star wars universe. There is no viable explanation or reason for those ships to split perfectly down the middle, some of the ships aren't even directly behind where the resistance ships hits and they still get split down the middle. In conclusion the Holdo manoeuvre is a boring cop out solution that discredits all of the plots in the previous movies especially episodes IV, VI, VII.
Lmao I randomly came upon this clip in my suggested and the energy between the hosts is so off putting, I’m downvoting and asking RUclips not to recommend. Learn how to craft better arguments and present them with a little charisma
Haha I always forget that people hate TLJ lol Star Wars are fictional movies. Trying to apply real world logic to that universe and state what would "actually" happen doesn't make sense. What would actually happen is whatever the writers want to happen. Star Wars and every sci fi story is constantly updating its own rules and make shit up - but the second it happens in a movie people don't like, they use it as a reason for why they don't like that movie. If the Holdo maneuver never happened, you would still hate TLJ just as much.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
It means I never have to see her again in the movies, thankfully.
Hyper speed projectiles would definitely be a thing already in that universe if they were a viable option.
fiction including sci fi should not be viewed threw a lens of logic or science, but by the lore of that world's fiction
now does Holdo Maneuver make sense in the star was lore, i don't think so, i think they should have done a regular none warp drive crash and it would have uncontroversial in regards to the world's lore.
hyperspace was basically another dimension, there was no interaction with the real world. this is supported by the scene in ANH where they emerge in an asteroid field. if the holdo maneuver was possible, then a tiny rock could mean the end of your journey. it literally breaks the universe.
Yeah I was about to comment this. It’s another dimension so there is no way to hit objects when traveling. I’m surprised this argument never came up
What about the scene in ep1 where solo is talking about hyperdrive calculations and how important it is to get it right so they don’t slam into a super nova?
@@BullThunder i think hes talking about the exit point, not the travel itself.
according to some of the books hypertravel
can be interrupted by objects with a lot of
gravity, but that would make it almost useless, since there are so many big objects out there
@@kimrasmussen7188 fair enough
The scene in rogue one where rebel ships are jumping out and Vaders Star destroyer jumps in as well
I mean, if you want that in your canon that's fine. My canon doesn't have those garbage movies in it
I hate when Flecky's red pill side comes out. Glad our boy Reddit Robbie put Flecky's hint of sexism into perspective lmao.
Yeah I even lean towards him on this topic but you can just bring that up like it’s a valid point. I think he could’ve argued his side better.
Visually cool scene, undeniable.
But it does break canon. If it was that effective of a strategy why didn’t they sacrifice a few large starships against the 2nd Death Star in RoTJ. Seems like a pretty good trade, and the argument that “she was the first to think of it” is just flat out bullsh*t. 8,000+ years of hyperspace travel and she is the FIRST to try this. Nah. Ryan Johnson just wanted a visually cool scene and give his “strong independent woman” some heroic death. I remember seeing the scene and thinking “unintentional fan service and the only good part of this movie”
It means not everyone who writes a Star Wars script puts it through more than one draft or gives it any depth of thought.
"there making the good guys the terrorist" my brother in force what exactly do you think the empire labels its enemies to justify cruelty
My second issue is it fundamentally breaks everything we know and have seen about hyperspace travel within its own logic we would constantly be crashing into planets stars and other spaceships if it's a one in a million odds there are more than a million ships on coruscant alone there should constantly be explosions in the sky
nothing because anything disney made is not cannon.
My third point the holdo maneuver could have been done without the methods they used
you could have easily used hyperspace to get close to a main frigate fill up your ship with explosive material explode and distract the army enough to escape
Or you could have strung along multiple ships together with literally ropes and send them on a crash course
Okay so my first issue with that is in the next movie they say it's a one-in-a-million shot why is that
they never explain why and also why is she so confident in it if this is this plan she came up with
And why can no one else execute it
in terms of storytelling you're telling me that it happened just because for no reason and assuming that it does exist
even if the odds are insane the fact we have never seen it since I highly doubt there are millions of people willing to revolt against the first order
but we never seen one of them in movies or comics pull off that maneuver again no matter how desperate they are
I agree with Robbie
It don’t make sense. Hyperspace is another dimension
I am New here, I dig this. Gonna Hang out for a Minute
Hey, its the guy that comments a lot. Im not going to go wild in this one just wanted to say keep up the good work on the video's. You guys are very entertaining. Waiting for the day you get Starwars Theory on here
The problem I have with it is that even though Star Wars is a science fiction franchise, it still abides by our understanding of physics to a degree. The fact that the ship breaks into a hundred pieces and conveniently crashes into every single ship makes absolutely no sense. I could understand it breaking the main ship in half but the rest of the ships being destroyed feels like a preview of the acolyte (as in Disney as no clue what the Star Wars cannon continuity is really about and makes whatever content fit their narrative, they simply needed a progressive lady being the hero in the scenario, I don't mind it but it does feel forced)
I agree with the argument that if some random purple haired lady thinks of doing it first instead of countless legendary generals during the clone wars and even then thousands of years before, it de-legitimizes every general that were supposed to be geniuses (cause let's be honest, it ain't that hard to think of ramming your vessel into another, the Romans and Carthaginians used this as one of their first tactics for naval warfare)
P.S: Reddit Robbie has done it again with the random reddit posts to try to prove a point lol (I love it please keep doing it, I love watching Finn go nuts)
Incorrect. The ships were grouped together. When Holdo's ship hit the first one, it was in a state of acceleration, then when it hit the first vessel, it fragmented, and the pieces of both her ship and the ship she crashed into scattered, also accelerated, into the the other ships.
Have you ever seen the film "Gravity"? Think of it like that.
As for why it was never used, probably because ships are expensive, and it's not just a great tactic outside of desperation.
As for the rest, "Star Wars" on the whole is wildly inconsistent with how the internal logic of the world is. Why build a Death Star when all you need to do is grab a couple of rocks from space and just throw them into the planet you want to destroy? It's a series about space wizards and samurai. I am less concerned about the scientific consistency in that universe than I am in STORY consistency.
In that regard, the sequels were, for the most part, complete shit. Ironically, though everyone hates it, the only film that seemed to give a damn about the original films, and George's ideas, was "The Last Jedi". Not that TLJ was amazing, but it did do more to acknowledge the consequences of the prequels, the arrogance of the Jedi, and how that led to the fall of the Republic, but it also tapped into more of the Japanese and Buddhist inspirations behind the force and the Jedi.
If I remember right, there was also a bit of lore that came out around the same time as the film that mentioned that it wasn't the ship itself that did the damage, but the experimental shields it used. Of course, as with everything that might have been exlainable as a one-off, J.J Abrams had to ruin that by showing more Holdo Maneuvers being pulled off in that last awful film.
@@realtsavo I agree with most of what you said. The only issue (if we could even call it that) I have with it is that at those speeds without the shields you were referring to (since we can assume the shields turned "off" since it was destroyed as soon as the Holdo's ship collided with the first one) should basically vaporize. I have also seen the theory about the shield causing the damage and frankly this explanation makes much more sense to me. Since, as you said, there are a lot of scientific inconsistencies (and shit that doesn't make sense any way you slice it), I believe it's better to think of it as a matter of opinion and taste and what you would like to see happen in your favourite movie franchise rather than right or wrong.
I think we both agree that this is the nerdiest conversation ever (particularly regarding the scientific consistency) and the story aspect of it is much more important.
I personally didn't like the sequels for basically everything you said. I would however add that it lacks political direction (which made the originals and prequels so damn good)
The originals were about asymmetrical warfare (greatly inspired by the vietnam war) and the fight for "democracy" and the freedom to choose who governs you.
The prequels to me were even more interesting from a political standpoint since it was basically a blueprint for how a democracy turns into a dictatorship and as padme famously said: How liberty dies.
Cheers friend!
@@thomaspellerin2488 In response to the vaporization comment, I think that would depend on at which speed the ship was at when it broke up, if we (reasonably) assume that the jump is not instantaneous.
Either way, I completely agree with everything else you said, and would add that if you can get your hands on the extended fanedits of the prequels, they get even better, and do a better job of making that point.
I lived in China for several years, and after escaping to Japan when things got to dangerous, ended up watching the extended prequels with a buddy of mine who is still in China (much safer position, for now), and comparing a lot of what was covered in those films to both Chinese history and the rise of authoritarianism in general.
@@thomaspellerin2488 By the way, cheers to you as well!
Paul town?
What does the move mean for SW? Nothing. Sending yourself on a suicide mission to do that is a last resort effort, considering the money and resources to build that ship in the first place. No one else has/would want to do it again because it’s legitimately not a good strategy unless it’s a last ditch effort
KIT FISTO 2005 BABAY!!!!! 🤙🤙🤙
Let me interest you into the galaxy gun
S/O trench
If hyperspace goes as fast as the speed of light, only 1 x wing would be needed to destroy planets. There are tons of games on steam that allow you to play with physics like this. So I agree, it is extremely stupid, it should not be in the lore
KIT FISTO 2005
The problem with it is that it just ruins the whole original trilogy and rogue one as the rebellion could've just sent a few ships at the death star 1 and 2 and just destroyed it with no casualties by using droid pilots. Its a visually stunning scene dont get me wrong however the ships splitting down the middle makes no sense. Regardless that star wars doesn't follow real world science and physics, it does follow common sense on what would happen in the star wars universe. There is no viable explanation or reason for those ships to split perfectly down the middle, some of the ships aren't even directly behind where the resistance ships hits and they still get split down the middle. In conclusion the Holdo manoeuvre is a boring cop out solution that discredits all of the plots in the previous movies especially episodes IV, VI, VII.
Lmao I randomly came upon this clip in my suggested and the energy between the hosts is so off putting, I’m downvoting and asking RUclips not to recommend. Learn how to craft better arguments and present them with a little charisma
Nah I love these guys
get a job loser
Haha I always forget that people hate TLJ lol
Star Wars are fictional movies. Trying to apply real world logic to that universe and state what would "actually" happen doesn't make sense. What would actually happen is whatever the writers want to happen. Star Wars and every sci fi story is constantly updating its own rules and make shit up - but the second it happens in a movie people don't like, they use it as a reason for why they don't like that movie. If the Holdo maneuver never happened, you would still hate TLJ just as much.
Does it make sense nah, but it was p cool tho👀