How Different Are the TR and the Critical Text? See for Yourself in English.
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- 🌐 KJVParallelBible.org
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👏 Many thanks to Jonathan Burris of @pastorburris for editing this video as a volunteer support to my little ministry!
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James Duly, Robert Gifford, Lanny M Faulkner, Lucas Key, Dave Thawley, William McAuliff, Razgriz, James Goering, Eric Couture, Martyn Chamberlin, Edward Woods, Thomas Balzamo, Brent M Zenthoefer, Tyler Rolfe, Ruth Lammert, Gregory Nelson Chase, Ron Arduser, Caleb Farris, Dale Buchanan, Jess English, Aaron Spence, Orlando Vergel Jr., John Day, Joshua Bennett, K.Q.E.D., Brent Karding, Kofi Adu-Boahen, Steve McDowell, Kimberly Miller, A.A., James Allman, Steven McDougal, Henry Jordan, Nathan Howard, Rich Weatherly, Joshua Witt, Wade Huber, M.L., Brittany Fisher, Tim Gresham, Lucas Shannon, Easy_Peasy , Caleb Richardson, Jeremy Steinhart, Steve Groom, jac, Todd Bryant, Corey Henley, Jason Sykes, Larry Castle, Luke Burgess, Joel, Joshua Bolch, Kevin Moses, Tyler Harrison, Bryon Self, Angela Ruckman, Nathan N, Gen_Lee_Accepted , Bryan Wilson, David Peterson, Eric Mossman, Jeremiah Mays, Caleb Dugan, Donna Ward, DavidJamie Saxon, Omar Schrock, Philip Morgan, Brad Dixon, James D Leeper, M.A., Nate Patterson, Dennis Kendall, Michelle Lewis, Lewis Kiger, Dustin Burlet, Michael Butera, Reid Ferguson, Josiah R. Dennis, Miguel Lopez, CRB, D.R., Dean C Brown, Kalah Gonzalez, MICHAEL L DUNAVANT, Jonathon Clemens, Travis Manhart, Jess Mainous, Brownfell, Leah Uerkwitz, Joshua Barzon, Benjamin Randolph, Andrew Engelhart, Joe Siler, Mark Sarhan, Melissa F, Rachel Schoenberger.
Great stuff as always Mark. I saved the site onto my iPhone home screen only to see the link/icon already existed in my Bible Study area…. Time to get into it! Thanks!
Enjoy!
In all the Reformation doctrines about Scripture (its infallibility, perspicuity, supremacy, etc), I think more emphasis on the ROBUSTNESS of Scripture would be helpful. Indeed the Word of God is strong, "living and powerful," and His voice pierces through the inevitable fogs of textual transmissions and translations into foreign languages. Jesus promised us that the Spirit would abide with us forever, that He would guide us into all truth, and that He would take the things of Christ and show them to us. "My sheep know My voice, and they follow Me."
PLEASE put out a purchasable format! You never know what's going to happen to online Bible resources and this is one I would love to have in my library, either print or epub!
It’s coming!!
@@wardonwords Fantastic! Will purchase for sure.
I recently started reading GW translation Bible. I have really been enjoying how it flows. I was brought up strict on the KJV only. Your videos are very helpful and are positively provoking my thoughts. Thank you and God bless.
Thanks for making your hard work available to us "lay-people" who love the Word. I do use the various translations in their native "study-bible" formats and I've learned soooo much and now ~ more besides since I came in contact with your word.
In following along with some of your examples... I found even more variances again! I was using the "Interlinear Bible" by Cambridge (with the Authorized Version / Revised Version) and the "Logos International Study Bible" with Variorum readings and renderings, etc, by Logos. Also the NET Bible.
I am simply amazed at the dedication and hard work that was put into the translating of God's Word into English. Yes - I've learned so much and realize this is certainly an ongoing learning process and am enjoying every step of this journey in knowing God and His Word...
Thanks so very much with God's abundant blessing being upon you and yours!
Thank you!
What a surprising conclusion to come to! As always, enjoy your thoughtful take on the issues, and it’s hard for me to imagine how much work it took to get to the point where you can share such useful info with us. I knew some differences were because of translation choices but had no idea how much of the variation stemmed from this rather than the underlying text. Thanks much
Thank you kindly!
Thank you, Mark! This video was very helpful because of your compassionate manner and scholastic insights. I hope the website of the KJV parallel bible continues to grow!
Thank you, Mark for comparing the TR & Critical Text. You did a great job of explaining nuances between them. Keep up the good work.
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome discussion. I must study more to have an intelligent question:)... now that I found your work I have more resources to learn. God bless you
Glad it was helpful!
I have bookmarked the site and will turn to it often in my studies. Thank you, thank you for the clarity this brings to the church, Mark.
I'm honored! As is the team of volunteers who helped do the work!
@@wardonwords Why would you even care what Saul had to say, he never even met Jesus?
@@bipslone8880 See Acts chapter 9. Saul's dramatic encounter with Jesus (v3-4) on the road to Damascus is one of the most famous stories of the New Testament. Keep reading and in v17 you will see he was filled with the Holy Spirit. In chapter 13, the Holy Spirit set Saul and Barnabas apart for His work which progressively comes to fruition, and Saul becoming known as the apostle to the Gentiles. However he typically took the message to the Jews first in each place he visited, and then took it to the Gentiles when rejected by the Synagogues.
Thanks so much for all of the hard work you have put into this brother
My pleasure!
@@wardonwords
That guy who wrote in to the
“ *TEAM OF VOLUNTEERS* ”
should stick to proper English and
not experiment with phases which he
feels 'all the cool kids are saying'.
The phrase is “ *old skool* ”,
NOT old school.
Perhaps he should stick to saying,
"'great to see CT done in olden style'"
or some other variant which avoids
slang.
@@wardonwords
Yes, Thank You Very Much
for *ALL* your dedication
and tireless commitment. 💗
@@Australian_Made Thank you for the kind words! God is good!
Dr. Ward, for us old timers who love our books, please do try to get this out in print.
Thank you and Bless you for your work.
Noted!
Yep, I'm another one of those old timers who love the printed page. I will be among the first to get one!
@@wardonwords this is an incredible resource! Would it be possible for you to work with someone to produce a similar resource in Spanish with the RVR1960?
Yes this would be a great in print!
I agree!!! Books please! When the world goes down the toilet we might not have internet.
What an awesome resource! Thank you for this.
Glad you found it helpful!
I just ran across this video and the associated website -- thank you for putting all this together. I echo other sentiments about the need for other formats so we can use and share the content easily. (the website is easy to use though). I personally use Life Bible app for parallel Bible versions. Same goes for Olive Tree apps. Thanks again for your contribution and years of efforts. I pray it reaps great reward.
It’s coming to print!
@@wardonwords oh, great!
Thanks!
Many thanks!
Hi, this is excellent! I’ve been looking for something like this for ages. 🙂 T’would be great if you could make the link in description clickable. God bless!
Great video and great resource, Mark. I have been on this site before, but never realized exactly how I could use it. Thanks for the explanation and I look forward to seeing it on Logos.
Glad it was helpful!
This is so cool!! How have i never heard of this before?!
Thanks so much for making this available!
You're very welcome!
For 34 years, the KJV was my main Bible. I read the 1901 ASV some, but all my memory work was from the KJV. Then I switched completely to the NJKV. I consider it a great translation. With the textual critical notes in the margin, it is textually speaking the most scholarly translation. I was a student of Dr. Louis Foster, one of the NT translators for the NKJV. He showed me the Trinitarian Bible Society TR he was required to follow. Interestingly, he was also on the NIV translation team. After over 20 years studying and teaching from the NKJV, it dawned on me that I was forgetting the exact wording of the passages I had memorized in my younger days. I have returrned to reading, studying, and memorizing the KJV.. I also read Biblical Greek (LXX and Greek NT). You are absolutely correct about the textual variants being almost entirely irrelevant.
✔
I think some ESV is getting mixed up in my KJV memory verses, too. 18 years on the KJV; 26 on the ESV (and other translations) so far!
Thank you for advertising this remarkable Bible study tool. And thank you for your closing comments that affirmed Christians using Bibles from both the TR and CT. Since I’ve studied out the translation issue, I’ve wrestled with whether I need to “fully commit” to one camp or the other. I currently serve at a church that uses the NKJV, a TR-based translation. But I happily consult and study from CT-based Bibles as well. Do I need to choose? How long will I limp between two opinions? 😏 But your closing thoughts helped me see the value in holding on to both. For now, I’ll continue to study primarily from a TR Bible. But if the Lord ever opened the door to another ministry that used a CT Bible, I would have little to no trouble adjusting. I like that flexibility a lot.
How can I lay any specific view on your conscience, brother, when the payoff is so little and-far more importantly-the Bible gives me no explicit direction? I don't think you have to commit to anything in this realm unless God says so.
As a thought--working through variants is like working through other difficulties--perhaps the point is working through them is a meditative act. God didn't make it simple in all passages because theological engagement should be thought provoking.
Halt!, brother. 😉
Translation - "I'm easily swayed."
Wow! This is so powerful and clarifying. Thank you so much for this great resource; it should be known both far and near.
You are so welcome! This very week a publisher is considering a print version!
I adore the NASB and NKJV. It is so important to realize an English translation is still a translation. We must rely on the Holy Spirit for discernment and clarification. Thank you so much for your vlog. Blessings to you.💗💗💗
Well said!
Absolutely!! Makes sense to me sistre Burton.
Then there are the deliberate mistranslations - like the eighth commandment in the KJV (which changed “thou shalt not steal the rewards of labour” to the shorter “thou shalt not steal” to avoid issues over slavery that the original commandment actually covered).
My favorites as well, NKJV and the NASB. I also like the NET Bible. Translation is good/different and the notes are outstanding regarding why words translated as such.
@@Nomad58 The LEGAL DEFINITION of slavery is not being adequately rewarded for labor (ie forced labor).
Thank you, Mark! This is site is truly helpful and look forward to digging deeper into it in the future. Your third point echoes my recent feelings after reading Dave Brunn's book "One Bible, Many Versions" where he addresses how the common literal translations are not all that literal (compared to something like YLT) and the difficulties of Biblical translation in general. I finished the book feeling that my own struggles between TR/CT, and our vast selection of excellent versions, was extremely petty compared to those that none or even just one translation in their own language. As Dr Wallace says, it truly is an embarrassment of riches.
RIGHT! I love this comment!
This has to be the best presentations addressing issues between variants, textual differences between the TR, MT, CT I have heard. This really boost my confidence in reading various translations without having doubts and worries about which underlying text was used. Thank you so much for all your hard work. May God bless you for your work to help address the devisions doubts causes by these arguments.
Thank you so much!
There are very serious "variants." These "Variants" not simple as names, means that there is not a steadfast Word of God. Lots have changed. Doctrines are touched. Some are removed. Do not be deceived.
I appreciate your hard work in producing KJVparallelBible. Thank you
Our pleasure (I say on behalf of the team of volunteers)!
Thanks for all the work you do bro , it’s very helpful
My pleasure!
Hello Mark. I love your work and the gracious spirit in which you engage the KJVO people. Say, I am working on a massive project in which I have compared Scrivener's TR with the NA 28 and underlined every single difference in both copies. I also assigned a corresponding number to each. Working 30 minutes a day, it took about a year and a half. That was "Phase One." In "Phase Two," I am typing each underlined difference into an Excel spreadsheet and providing short translations of each. The sheet has 4 additional columns in which I rate / rank each variant with a numerical value, evaluating each one on the basis of "type of variant," "impact on translation," "impact on meaning," and whether or not the NKJV ot the ESV reflect the difference. Excel spits out some really interesting numerical / percentage data from my number coding system. I am about a year into Phase Two with about three more years to go. Would love to share the details with you / compare notes if you'd be interested.
He states (around 6:10), that the Critical Text and the TR are the only two rivals - but isn't the NIV and the TNIV (Pretty widely accepted translations) both based upon Goodrick-Kohlenberger? Am I just confused on terms here (Critical Text ≠ Nestle-Alend)?
Someone more knowledgeable than I please comment.
There are multiple Textus Receptus editions, a number of which differ at least a little from each other. There are multiple critical text editions, a number of which differ at least a little from each other. GK is one of the latter. It reflects the text-critical decisions made by the NIV translators, just as Scrivener’s TR reflects the text-critical decisions made by the KJV translators. Does that help?
@@wardonwordsThanx
What a an awesome resource this website is! Thank you, Mark, for your work on this and contribution for the edification of the church!
It's my delight!
Thanks for your video! When it comes out in Logos, I definitely want it, and please let us know when it's in print. 🙂
I will announce both on my channel when the time comes!
This is a video i may share w the kjvo people in my life. Its been a struggle for years. Love the hard work you continue to do, to clarify an issue that need not divide faithful Christians
I pray they will heed you!
Thanks for posting this video! A resource like this is perfect for my level of biblical/textual knowledge.
Glad to be of service!
I really appreciate your graciousness and desire for believers to be confident in the word of God regardless of the underlying manuscript tradition. Thank you.
Wow, thank you!
Thanks for this, Mark. I've typically leaned towards the CT, but because of your videos and some discussions you've had with other folks, I've begun to take a closer look at the TR and the MT. I fully agree that the differences are minimal and theologically insignificant. So, why is everyone fighting? Let's stop straining at gnats, shall we? We have Good News to proclaim!
Right! Minimal!
I really appreciate this. I started out reading the nasb and then was pulled to the King James buy some KJV only folks. Overtime I just began to realize that their claims of perfect inerrancy in that translation were not well supported and I started to see how much more effective it was to try to preach the gospel or minister to others in a language they understood. I really like how you point out that First Corinthian 14 teaches something must be intelligible in order to be edifying. That is pretty clear. Do you have any content related to the differences between the alexandrian Old Testament text and the masoretic text? God bless.
Love this comment.
I don't have any such content. I do plan to have some; I want to have John Meade on the channel. But I haven't gotten there yet. I'm a New Testament guy.
I love my MEV bible because I prefer the TR but I've been using this since it released and as a textual nerd who (sadly) does not know Greek it has been helpful to see how similar the texts are!
Happy to be an Honorary Bible Nerd! Thanks! This is awesome!
Welcome aboard!
@@wardonwords Thank you!
God bless this important ministry. I would definitely buy an epub version of this.
Doesn't the NKJV include these differences at the bottom of their Bibles? (Your website is a great resource either way)
Yes, but a) not all the differences and b) the overall picture provided by the KJV Parallel Bible is more valuable than the NKJV footnotes (for this purpose) because the similarities and not just the differences are pictured.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and reasonable presentation. I became excited with this entire subject of textual criticism a few short years ago when a parishioner asked me a question that I could not answer at that time. I came to the same conclusion that you did regarding the differences & similarities between the TR and the CT--including leaning toward the CT. I also agree that Christians should not fight over this issue. By the way, my own analysis of Revelation confirms your suspicions that the number of variants between the CT & the TR in that NT book are greater in percentage than for any other NT book. Thanks again for your channel. I'm a subscriber and enjoy it immensely!
I would like to know if you have ever reviewed the Concordant Literal New Testament and what your thoughts are on it. Thank you for your consideration
I have not, but I'm familiar with the concept. I believe it to be doing more harm than good. =| I just don't know who benefits from it. Certainly could be wrong! But in my experience, the only way to use the original languages well is to know them. And even that isn't a guarantee. =(
Word comparisons can be made whether you know the language or not. It's fairly easy to tell if it's translation as opposed to interpretation. Seems to me you may be judging a book by its cover instead of investigating it. God bless you in your studies and remember the light of the Holy Spirit in confirming the word. Thank you for your service in the cause of Christ
This has to be the best presentation I’ve ever heard on the issue of textual criticism. I’ve been TR for a bit now, but man this puts things in perspective and maybe lays the issue to rest for me.
“Mint and cumin… a tempest in a small teapot” indeed. Thank you for your labors in the kingdom Mark.
My wife and I will be moving to a town in Tennessee you soon that is very strong in their KJV ONLY beliefs. Having a resource like this, especially in booklet form, I believe will be extraordinarily helpful to pull people out of that religious trap from textual terrorists. God bless you.
Thank you! This is very meaningful to me. I do indeed want to rescue people from the trap of KJV-Onlyism-and to help those Christians who in God's providence must attend KJV-Only churches to quietly, humbly weed out the silliness they hear and get only the good.
MAKE SURE to listen to an even better presentation (I think!), the one given by my respected friend Darrel Post, on this channel: ruclips.net/video/USrR43nflPU/видео.html
Please put your parallel KJV into print form. I came from a KJVO background and left it 19 years ago after I began doing my own research after listening to an interview with Gail Riplinger that made no sense. Wow, did the research set me free!! Your parallel KJV is excellent for those of us who are not the greatest at reading Greek. I've learned a little as I've done my research but I can't read the Nestle-Aland and the Westcott-Hort texts because I'm not fluent in Greek. Thank for putting it online. I just found your videos and am glad to know of the KJV parallel.
It's coming! It may take more than a year, but I doubt it will take two.
@@wardonwords Mark, thank you so much! I can't wait!!
Praise God! Thank you for the hard work and love you put into this, brother Mark. I am grateful that this is made free to us. May the Lord continue to bless you and your team.
You are very welcome!
What I would say I can not spill, I do hope you do get it printed. Thank you for your hard work!
I hope so too!
Are there any updates as for as maybe getting it printed? I'd love to have one. God bless.
Really interesting video Mark, thanks, I bet that site took a few hours to put together so thanks for investing the time and making it available to us. Looking forward to when it hits Logos, if you could it would be good to know when this is so I can get a copy :-) Thanks. I am in a similar position to the guy who wrote to you in that I'm feeling both sides seem to be pushing how bad the other translation is while having no way to judge in validate what they are saying. I think a few hours in your site will be very useful so I can understand when people are talking from sense or prejudice,
Right! I feel kind of alone in saying that the TR is not bad, even though the CT is superior.
Wow! I appreciate your work and this helpful tool!
You're very welcome!
Hi Mark, I just start to discover your amazing channel on YT. I'm from France and very passionate to understand and learn more about bible translations. I also work for a christian Bible mission.
I was just having the project to make a video series on YT in Frensh to share some of my own research that is somewhat similar.
I made a study of over 1000 differences I could find from various ressources.
I compared 7 formal frensh Bible translations ranged from more TR to more CT
Your project of your website is amazing but I was told that the NA28 is now slowly "getting back on track", and follows less the sinaiticus as before.
The problem for me is not the NA28 (what seems to be your source for th CT),
but the sinaitucus who is critisiced for probably more then 20 reasons.
To my (small) knowledge the sinaiticus is the real reason for creating the extremism of KJVO on the opposite side and basically putting a halt to textual critisism because we no longuer have confidence in our scolars. -because of how they received the sinaiticus.
It's a funny thing because Erasmus work from 1516 in some sense led to the reformation in 1517. The reformation is, among many other reasons, also due to Erasmus push to go back to the Bible : due to his work of textual critisism.
(fun fact : I put "Anno 1516" on an official Lego set I designed and made a video about it)
I would agree the KJVO went way too far and and you would have very reason to criticize them,
but the problem isn't solved until we have more clarity on the sinaiticus's (and maybe vaticanus) origins.
Getting to my research, I'm trying to get my own picture of how the texts could have changed in the early periods of transmission.
Putting aside the conspiracy theories I came up with a new theory when I was studying the transmission of the coran.
And I would very much like to have your thoughts on it.
Is it possible that the manuscripts of the CT suffer from omissions simply because it has been orally transmitted ?
I think an oral transmission could explain many many variants.
It was way more common in these days and people could learn huge portions of texts by heart.
Things like Christ-Jesus or Jesus-Christ is still a very unlikely error to make when you copy a text. But with oral transmission the text will easily fit the cultural ways of speaking. Same for the use of "him" or "he" instead of "Jesus". A very common difference.
(Until 7 years ago I didn't really much had the courage to use the name of Jesus too often. I had to practice as I grew spiritually. I completely understand it would be left out more often in a oral transmission.)
It also explains some of the portions that change places from one book to another.
It's maybe not going to solve the whole debate. But if the sinaitucus is put in a position where it's still valuable, but not overwhelmingly valuable we get to a more common ground.
Thanks for your great work and God bless you.
Here's my thought on this: I've got a hundred projects going, and I don't know when I'll finish this one, but I have been working through the New Testament looking for places where Sinaiticus and Vaticanus are the only manuscripts being relied upon for a particular reading. In other words, how often do Sinaiticus and Vaticanus really make a difference? This is a bit hard to judge, because perhaps there are times when they lend weight to a reading that is found in other manuscripts. But I most definitely predict that when I get done with this work and actually show off all the places where Aleph and B (the short names of those manuscripts) make a difference, people will be very much underwhelmed. The difference they make will be comparatively small, and the differences themselves will be very obviously unimportant. That's my hypothesis, in any case.
Have you read Dirk Jongkind on this?
www.amazon.com/dp/1433564092?tag=3755-20
Or Peter Gurry and John Meade? www.amazon.com/dp/B0BG93WSDX?tag=3755-20
Thanks for this video it was very helpful. I have used Kjv for most of the 38 years and only used the different translation in study time but a number of years ago I started using NKJV and now am using LSB some. This was helpful in that I thought there was more Variances between the TR & CT so my hat off to you hard hard work. Ps I saw you were at the New River Gorge I grew up in West Virginia and I remember being there when it was being built keep up the great work
Glad this was helpful for you!
Thank you Brother Mark for providing an amazing resource. I was recently propelled on a quest to get to the bottom of the KJV only debate - had no idea what all was behind that issue. This vide is one of the handful that helped me wrap my head around it and settle the matter. Textus Receptus or Critical Text? Yes please, I'll take both.
Right!
Thanks for doing this video Mark. I want to add something that might help someone out there. Scrolling through these tool pages does indeed point out the vast similarity between the two different texts. But what about when I compare two common English translations in Logos and see apparently many more differences than show up here...? This tool shows differences in the Greek texts, as they would be directly translated in English.....the differences we see between English translations demonstrate differences in translator choices...not necessarily the underlying Greek texts. Thanks again.
If you see differences that can't be accounted for with the KJV Parallel Bible site, you are almost certainly dealing with differences of opinion on how best to translate the same Greek words.
Wow, this is amazing! Thank you!
You know what would make it better? If you had a word count of the "variants" at the end of every chapter at the bottom of the page.
Its been said that there are 400 000 variant for the NT alone, this would help solidify the fact that most of these variants mean nothing.
A worthy idea!
Wow! For someone who is just starting to get into Bible nerdiness, I am excited about this. Thank you!
You are so welcome!
Thank you for being so clear! Great video!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for all the tedious work and scrutiny involved in providing this resource to the church.
❤❤❤ Only a few minutes in. New to this channel… just subscribed. I hope there is a printed version of KJV Parallel or maybe will be some day. ❤❤❤
Just made it to the end of the video and see there is no print version… yet. And maybe logos soon. I very much enjoyed the note from the person that summarized TR vs CT shared at the end. So good and so well said. Everyone be sure to listen to that part.
I'm still hopeful!
@@wardonwords I will be waiting patiently
This definitely needs to be in printed form, as well as an app!
I hope it will be!
@@wardonwords I set up a shortcut on for the websit on my phone and was looking through it this morning. It's such a great tool!
I really want to buy this when it comes out. Right now I have a NKJV study bible and a text only NASB. Saving up for a NLT next.
GENIUS!!! BRILLIANT!!! THIS VIDEO ENDS BIBLE TRANSLATION TRIBALISM!!! THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK GOD BLESS YOU 🙌
Wow, thank you!
As a person with some mental illness and obsessive tendencies, I REALLY appreciate you demystifying this dichotomy between the TR and CT.
This has helped me a ton. I now feel like I can just relax and know that "the Bible is the Bible" it's just really really wonderful to know that the Greek text is pretty much identical for the majority of it. This is such a relief to me, honestly.
I've been spending a lot of energy and time trying to figure out this text versus that text, this interlinear vs that one, etc, and I've been second guessing myself and kind of making myself sick.
But now I feel so happy and ready to just dive as deep as I can into my ESV/NA28 I just got from Amazon.
I do think it's the very best interlinear I could have gotten, but I'm very very very relieved to know that none of the options are really THAT different.
This is so awesome.
Thanks a TON, Brother!!!
I Love you.
You are so smart and articulate, and keyed in to what is most interesting and important. You're so awesome. 💪🏻🐨❤️📚✝️
Thank you!
Thank you for research! I have a beautiful black leather NJKV. I love it.
Ps. Your voice is relaxing haha
For the sake of preservation, I hope that you're able to make this available in print. I would definitely buy a copy.
I'm still waiting to hear from the publisher…
Mark.. the one area I’m unclear on is it’s often the TR vs the CT discussions/debates. But we also know there’s a very significant MT as well. How come the MT readings aren’t considered or incorporated into the CT when they analyze and produce the CT?
The CT considers all readings. In fact, MT readings are making a small comeback in the latest CT editions. But remember: we’re talking about minute differences most of the time.
@@wardonwordsahhh gotcha. Thanks!!
Wonderful resource, thanks so much for all your hard work in coming up with this useful tool. The CT part is basically the KJV NT had it used the CT! That's the best of both worlds - the beauty of the KJV text and the accuracy of the underlying Greek text! Is there by any chance a plan to publish just the CT portion in print or as a Logos resource? That would be awesome!
Yes! A print publication is very much possible! I have a publisher that examining the possibility now!
And it’s definitely coming to Logos. Timeline uncertain.
@@wardonwords Yay! Thanks much, I'd be looking forward to this!
Thanks again Mark for your commitment to Text type's and the humbleness in your presentation's thereof. I've been a Christian 44 year's and my calling puts me in the "exegesis and exposition" camp with a teaching ministry. I find much harmony with your balanced evaluations between the Text's, and because of this I would like your opinion surrounding a choice in translation of a word. In Paul's 2nd epistle to the Thessalonian's the 2nd chapter verse 2, the Critical Text translates "JESUS" name as "Lord," pertaining to the day thereof. In the Received Text it is translated "Christ," pertaining to the day thereof. Context and content of the chapter reveals the day in question is the "harpazo." Obviously these two days are not compatible. Co-text's abide elsewhere for further discussion ,but will leave it here and await your reply should you chose to do so. This being said Covenant blessings and will greet you here , there or in the air. Again thank you.
This is a textual difference. The main TR vs. the main critical text. But I don't think this difference needs to be a difference in meaning, in reference. Check commentaries to see if they think so, but I doubt it.
Paul otherwise uses "Day of Christ" exclusively in Philippians, so the Received Text reading is possible but inconsistent with the terminology he had previously used in his correspondence with Thessalonica. In 1 Thessalonians, he uses the traditional "Day of the Lord" from the prophetic books, and the 2 Thessalonians passage would be his only other use of this specific phrasing if the Critical Text reading is correct.
In the Corinthian letters, he speaks of the "Day of the Lord Jesus" or some variant thereof. Otherwise, it's simply "the Day" or "that Day" with no modifiers (except for one instance of "Day of Redemption" in Ephesians). He likely means the very same "day" that he mentioned in his Areopagus sermon from Acts 17, "a day in which [God] will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he has ordained."
Paul makes no clear effort to distinguish between these terms, nor does he treat them as separate from the "coming of our Lord Jesus Christ," which he refers to extensively in the Thessalonian letters and once in the first Corinthian letter. Paul never indicates that the "harpazo" is separate from the "parousia" or the "hemera."
But it is worth noting that the two dispensationalist commentaries I checked (McGee's "Thru the Bible" and MacDonald's "Believer's Bible Commentary") both preferred the reading "Day of the Lord" because it corresponded better with their pre-tribulation rapture beliefs. So there is that.
Mark, it would seem to me there is a great expositional difference between these passage's. Contextually it would be impossible to equate both reference's to one event. Clearly one is referencing the " harpazo" and the other the "day of Divine vengeance or wrath." But thanks for the reply. Looking forward to further " iron sharpening iron" with you.@@wardonwords
Thanks for your reply. Would enjoy further discussion with you.@@MAMoreno
Just wanted to say thank you for your excellent work and tremendous effort. We know that God is pleased when we make brothers and sisters come closer and understand each other better. You are furthering advancement of his kingdom.
Wow, thank you!
Ok, I am picky. I believe you said that Scrivener is the "basis" for the KJV & NKJV. I think (hope) you meant that Scrivener "represents" the Greek text of the KJV, etc.
Oh yes, I do know this! I've discussed it in detail in other videos. It's so hard to speak succinctly about this topic!
ruclips.net/video/qxkSifAEeL0/видео.html
I hope a print edition does become available.
It's looking likely! Not certain.
Mark, thank you. That website is a great resource. Really appreciate it. I do have one comment regarding your statement that the Bible hasn't been perfectly preserved. When all the manuscripts are considered, we can be confident that we have every inspired word that the original contained. Among all the variants, one is the original. The historic Protestant position was that the apographs (copies) contain the pure word of God. What good is it to say (as many churches do) that the Bible is inspired "in the original manuscripts" when no one has seen them for centuries? I am not a TR or KJV onlyist, BTW. I am interested to hear your thoughts on this. I love your channel and your book. Thanks again.
My friend, you are mixing talking points from the two camps. I am confident that all the words of God are preserved by the manuscript tradition of both testaments. Using all the evidence we can find the original. So I would not say that our lack of the originals means that we have nothing to value. Does that make sense?
Your work on this is really great. For a while I have thought about how the difference between translations could come from either the manuscripts or from nearly stylistic differences. I wondered what a TR in the idiom of the ESV would look like or the Latin Vulgate in the idiom of the ESV. Thank you!
Originally, about six or seven years ago, I thought about doing an ESV with the TR. Just figured it would be too hard to ask permission.
What often goes unhighlighted is the remarkable similarity between scriptures from both the (TR and CT). Friends, the integrity of God's holy word remains intact! While it's easy to delve deep into scholarly discussions, let's not lose sight of the bigger picture. Whether it's the ESV, NASB, KJV, or NKJV, they all convey God's message faithfully!
Rather than causing confusion by questioning the purity of the Bible, our energy should be directed towards sharing the gospel with a world in need. Let's not get overly consumed with debates that bear little fruit. Instead, let's reflect on the teachings of faith stalwarts. The emphasis should be on the essence of the message. Whether Bunyan and the Reformers leaned on the Geneva (TR) or contemporary preachers resonate with the ESV, NASB, both translations faithfully convey God's eternal truth!
The distractions and rabbit trails frequently plant seeds of doubt, particularly among new believers who might question the infallibility of the Bible. As Spurgeon aptly noted, this is a concern that warrants our attention. It's crucial that we navigate our journey with discernment, avoiding unnecessary confusion. Let's remain focused on the true essence of faith. May God guide us with wisdom and clarity. God bless.
Amen, brother!
This is brilliant. Thank you mark and your team of volunteers building this wonderful tool.
Can i ask what bible translation available would be closest to the right column CT so i could get this bible. Thanks
Thank you, Brother Mark 🌹⭐🌹⭐🌹
You are so welcome!
This is really helpful. Thanks again!
Glad it was helpful!
Wonderful. Thanks for your labors brother. The Lord bless you.
You are very welcome!
Refreshing, brother! THANK YOU!!!
And of course to He Who inspired you...🙏👏👏👏
I pray this project is a help to you.
Great presentation as ever Mark, keep up the good work. From your occasionally critical Messianic brother.
Thank you kindly!
Love this tool, Bro. Mark!! One of my favorite Bibles is the Byzantine Alexandrian Greek New Testament by C.W. Steinle. It accomplishes the same work you’ve done but in the original Koine Greek comparing the Stephanus TR from 1550 to the Nestle CT from 1904. I only wish we had a similar tool for comparing the Byzantine Text to the NA28! I also love your overall point regarding maintaining fellowship between the various text camps! My only small gripe is that you tend to rightly point out the bad behavior of the TR/KJV ONLY crowd but ignore or downplay the exact same hysteria I observe from many Critical Text proponents. Personally, I’ve always thought we should teach people to focus on the small number (7 or 8?) of significant passages that are up for debate rather than getting lost in the weeds concerning the numerous insignificant variants!
Excellent comment. Will consider your point about bad behavior among CT proponents.
Thank you for this video.
Your mention of cumin is appreciated.
You're so welcome!
Personally I can see both sides of the debate.
On one hand using manuscripts that omit certain verses and chapter because they might not be in originals isn't too different from how believers took out the apocrypha cause it wasn't originally considered Scripture. But on the other hand the manuscripts for the CT were found the same place as the gnostic gospels and writings, a group who would've had no problem with changing the Bible.
So can see where both sides are coming from
And the Bible doesn't address this matter explicitly, so you don't have to take a side!
Of course, I wouldn't frame the matter the way you have. If the Gnostics had a crack at what ultimately became the critical text, they did a terrible, terrible job. And my site shows this. But I can't say it's a sin to see it the way you describe. I would say only not to cause division over this.
@@wardonwords I don't
I assure you.
However, while I don't condem CT Bibles, ( after all the CT and TR are at best 99% the same and at worst 95% the same) never the less I think Bibles should be like the NASB 95, LSB, and HCSB in that they still have the TR verses and words but in brackets or like the NKJV in that it in the footnotes your told what verses are in the CT and which aren't. That why you can have the best of both
On the one hand, I entirely agree with Mark Ward that the TR/MT vs. the CT debate is a tempest in a teapot. Like Ward, I'd happily rely on a modern English translation based on the TR/MT like the NKJV vs. my current favorites the ESV and CSB which are largely based on the CT. The NT has tremendous multiple attestation, whether one's English translation is primarily based on the TR/MT or the CT. And the differences are indeed minor.
On the other hand, this can be a crucial issue for some Christians. What I mean is if a Christian ultimately believes their faith hinges on a particular text tradition like the TR or the Byzantine text type, if their faith in the Bible is so closely connected to faith in the TR and the KJV, then this could leave them open to a crisis of faith if they begin to significantly doubt the TR/KJV to such a degree that they begin to throw out their faith as they begin to throw out the TR/KJV. Of course, this need not happen, there are many Christians who lose faith in the TR without losing faith in the Bible, but I'm not referring to these latter Christians. Rather I'm speaking about those Christians who regard faith in the TR as tantamount to faith in God's word that it's an all-or-nothing mentality. They have the same or similar mentality to Bart Ehrman: an all-or-nothing mentality about textual variants, text types, and so on. It's a false dichotomy that need not be. (As a side note, I suppose this could happen with the CT too, but a key difference is most of those primiarly favor the CT likewise favor textual eclecticism, at least to my knowledge.)
I do think we need to show special care for Christian consciences. But at the very least, the Bible needs to trump the conscience on translation. And let’s remember that a ton of KJVO consciences show no compunction telling other people their Bibles are corrupt and demonic.
@@wardonwordsDefinitely! Thanks for that. Perhaps I should've been clearer, but I was trying to suggest what you've just said far more succinctly than I could have, that ultimately "the Bible needs to trump the conscience on translation". I find many KJVO online with this all-or-nothing mentality that I find especially troubling since I see it could be a slippery slope toward apostasy (and not all slippery slopes are necessarily logically fallacious).
@@philtheo Right! I see!
Wow! What a cool resource! Thanks!
My pleasure!
Thanks very much for this resource. It's amazing!
Brother Mark, thank you for this amazing tool and for the clarification that your work and this video brings to this issue. I am breathing a sigh of relief to know that I should be using both TR based and CT based Bibles in my study of God's word. Thanks again.
Right! Or at least that you have that liberty!
Could Philippians 1:11 (mentioned here: 26:06) be distinguished by “which are” and “that is” (rather than “which” and “that”) to highlight the plural and singular Greek words? I don’t think “the fruit… that are” is as direct a translation as “the fruit… that is”. Just a thought. God bless!
Poor Pistons...lol. Thanks for this Mark! It dramatically illustrates how minor the variances are. A tremendous gift.
Thank you!
I am dealing with a friend of mine who went to Dr. Browns church in Wisconsin who is a KJV advocate.
I told him the other day that the KJV translators used the dynamic equivalent technique in places after I heard it on one of your shows. Can you give me several examples of this? He wanted to see them.
Hello. This is such an excellent tool and you are to be highly commended for your work! I have recently been leaning more towards the ESV. Can you please tell me if the ESV is based at least in part on the TR and/or CT ? I have Googled and done due diligence but the answer tends to get jumbled up in the search results; for example I’ve found where they say it’s based on “recently published critical editions”, so, what were these editions themselves based on? Thank you
The ESV is based on a critical edition of the Greek New Testament. It doesn’t perfectly match any critical edition, however. I don’t know of an English translation that does.
Hi first video I’ve ever watched of you and I gotta just say I’m now a fan you seem genuine and it’s relaxing. If you see this what do you think of James whites Greek ability’s? Is he well known in the textual criticism world?
He's regarded like me, I think: as a popularizer. He's also what I'm not: a debater. The scholarly world sees value in those things. But I'm not aware that White tries to advance the discipline of textual criticism, if that's what you're asking. I don't either. Not my lane. Nothing wrong with that, I think!
@markwardonwords I know he taught koine greek but I heard someone say he's a fraud I don't think he's a fraud in his greek abilities. Maybe a little cocky, alot of the time but I think he is important as I think of you (not the cocky part) I've now binged a bunch of your videos and am a huge supporter of what you do and think you have vast importance in popularizing or being a bridge between the scholarly world and people like me. So thank you.
Great video brother ! I would purchase a print copy in a heartbeat when/ If available!
I'm hopeful!
I asked the Holy Spirit to lead me to the right Bible Translation, I never heard of you and I do not know how God led me to your expertise in Bible Translations, CT, and TR All I can say is Thank You Mark Ward and to God be the Glory………I feel abbsolutely free in this area now !
Wonderful!
@@cranmer1959 There were many Bibles that came before the King James Version and we know that the King James "Version" took from those Versions.....The Pilgrims csme to America with the Geneva Bible....Not the KJV.....However the KJV is a good version and may you be blessed studying God's Word
@@cranmer1959 After a year of studying different Bible Translations before knowing about Dr. Ward…..I found that There is “Only” one Bible with many translations….and Yes Dr. Ward is my go to now ……He is a truthteller with God-given wisdom and He researches and studies like this guy who played on the Lakers called “The Mamba” played basketball. Every single Bible version points to Jesus as the author and finisher of our Faith, His death, burial, and resurrection. They “All” say that Jesus IS God……I mean every fundamental Christian teaching is taught in every version….except of course the Jehovah’s Witness Bible, and the Mormon Bible.
@@cranmer1959 I never said I followed Him, I said he is a great go to source……….I thought I made that clear……..
@@cranmer1959 Why do some christians make things so difficult to other people or new people to the faith…..Jesus is BOTH…He is the Great “I AM” I could ask you a plethora of things also…What is the Hypostatic Union in Isaiah 9:6…..So what ! You keep it simple…..Almighty God loved us so much, He sent His Son Jesus to die in our stead, He was born of the Virgin Mary, We believe in His death,burial, and resurrection, He is the Son of God , who IS God, He is our Savior and our God…..and He gave us a beautiful treasure trove of beautiful translations and Loves us with His AGAPE love and will never stop loving us….The King James version is a good “Translation” If you prefer that….Study and read from that translation; What I do know is that you can read any translation you want, however if you do not grow in love,in the fruit of the Holy Spirit--The version you read is of NO effect. Do I go to chuch on Saturday or Sunday…Soooooo what I know some people who go on Wednesdays and never go on Saturday or Sunday…Encourage people to Study and read the word of God…..And Father God who is Faithful and True will guide them individually. Christians even debate taking communion….One says I take it once per month, another says I take it everyday, another says I take it twice per year---They are all correct in what they choose to do--Keep it simple and Be thankful……and if they ask difficult questions then be ready to answer.
Excellent work Mark. I really appreciate the spirit with which you communicate this unnecessarily heated debate. Now, since you did this, could you please tackle the differences between the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint? As someone who studies the whole Bible and noticed how much certain NT quotes either did not match, or are removed from, the MT, I would love to see someone do this in English for the lay people who are adamant Bible Nerds.
This is tough. A worthy subject for videos. John Meade is someone I might turn to to help us here. Maybe an interview.
I meant what I said when I said that I see both sides. But there is one variant that's always troubled me and was one of the reasons why i had a hard time for the longest time accepting the CT.
In the TR in the sermon on the mount Jesus said whoever is angry with his brother without cause. As you know the CT omits without cause and it just simply says whoever is angry with his brother. What troubles me is that this makes Jesus look like a hypocrite cause he got angry ( case in point his zeal for the temple) and it contradicts Paul when he said be angry and do not sin.
How do you explain that?
On Matthew 5:22 The Interpreter's Bible says; "Without a cause" is not found in some of the best MSS and earliest fathers. NWT has "CONTINUES wrathful." So the Greek indicates a continuous anger against someone instead of a relatively short or burst of anger as Jesus merely had. There's the difference.
@@19king14 NWT is not a translation that's a corruption made by a heretical group
Keep in mind that Jesus goes on to say that hurling an insult at a person is damnable, yet Jesus used some harsh words to criticize the Pharisees. The "problem" with Matthew 21.22 exists regardless of the variant. Since the saying is proverbial, it's probably best not to treat it as a clear-cut edict against feeling angry at someone but rather as a guide to regulating one's own attitude and behavior before it gets out of hand and results in violent behavior.
@@austintucker394 My studies of the content of the NWT for 50 years now shows it is still quite a valid translation, regardless of the "group." It has even provided an excellent and correct explanation to your first comment here. The NWT, among other things, is very conscious of the Greek and Hebrew tenses which was helpful to the answer here.
@@MAMoreno Just taking it a little deeper if I may.... Clearly Jesus (as usual) is speaking in parable/hyperbole. Using three different “degrees of severity” if you will.. First he speaks of “anger” whether it be continuous or “without cause” the result is “judgment,” not real explicit in the KJV. Weymouth translates ‘judgment’ as “magistrate.” The New Testament in Modern English has “the court.” J. B. Phillips has “stand trial.” and the NWT has “court of justice.” All of these translations (and others) make it clear the judgment for anger is by civil authorities. Next, “whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, (or “unspeakable word of contempt”) shall be in danger of the council:” again a civil authority. “BUT whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire (Gehenna) - in other words, a person of this "lesser thing" is in danger of, not civil, but Divine Judgement. Again, this is a hyperbole, to teach Christian brothers to be most concerned with Divine judgment and, as the next verses show, instead of calling your brother a fool, make peace with him, ultimately, Jesus’ message of Christian love.
Hey this is pretty great. When comparing two different translations in English, it is difficult to discern between a difference based on translation philosophy or word choice and a translation difference based on difference in textual basis. Now we non-Greek nerds can look under the hood of the Bible a bit better.
EXACTLY RIGHT!!
Thank you so much for this video. It was enlightening and I've now bookmarked the KJV Parallel Bible website. I would definitely purchase the printed version, if available.
I attend a KJV only church, but personally have no issue with other versions. I use several when i'm unclear of the meaning of a passage. But I was hoping you could comment on one advantage I see in having a standard version used in the church. The Psalmist tells us to hide God's word in our heart, which we interpret as the memorization of scripture. It seems to me there is a great advantage if we are all memorizing the same thing and understand the verses in the same way. Am I in error?
Not at all! I say the very same thing in the first chapter of my book, Authorized: The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible.
But we have to weigh values: put on the KJV side of the scale the value you describe (although, don't forget that if your church switched wholesale to the NKJV you'd get the same value!); then put on the other side of the scale the value of reading the Bible in your own English. Which should weigh more? What do you think?
@@wardonwords Thank you for responding so quickly! My point was that I believe it's good for the church to have a standard translation that is preached from the pulpit, whether or not, it's the KJV. Personally, I love the KJV as I believe it to be a good translation with a beauty of language I don't find in other translations. But neither do I believe, like some, that the KJV itself was dvinely inspired.
Of course, I was the guy who asked the pastor in front of the entire congregation if I could read from the Apocrypha since it was in the original 1611.
Great video Mark! I do not lean toward any manuscript family. I am very grateful we have all three families of Greek manuscripts in the Critical Text, Received Text and the Majority Text. In these three texts, we have God's Word. We are truly blessed. I personally like the NLT CT, NKJV TR and the WEB MT.
Right! All are yours.
This would probably be an entire second and third project, but you could also compare OT books comparing Masoretic and Septuagint or MT and Qumran texts.
I’d love to see others do that!
That’s it ! I’m KJB/NASB only :)
Great job , you have helped me personally so much brother Mark .
Great to hear!
NASB is corrupted to
Just stick to the KJV and you are safe
I just want to say - in the trenches of ministry life I am FAR more interested in having a reliable translation that the common man can understand than I am in arguing about the minutia of the TR or other texts. My church is very middle/lower class and we need to be able to communicate God’s Word clearly without the needless cloaking of biblical truth in archaic language.
Do we not spit on the graves of the martyrs who died to give us the English Bible in a manner the “common plow boy” could understand when we cloak God’s Word in archaic language and confuse and frustrate the masses?
Yes!!
I hate to overburden you because this is already so nice, and I would buy a print version, but.. you know what would be even more awesome, if you added MT to the mix.
I would love to be able to do that, but it's a ton of work. =|
@@wardonwords I understand, keep up the good work and God bless.