How Different Are the TR and the Critical Text? See for Yourself in English.
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- Опубликовано: 16 авг 2023
- 🌐 KJVParallelBible.org
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This has to be the best presentations addressing issues between variants, textual differences between the TR, MT, CT I have heard. This really boost my confidence in reading various translations without having doubts and worries about which underlying text was used. Thank you so much for all your hard work. May God bless you for your work to help address the devisions doubts causes by these arguments.
Thank you so much!
There are very serious "variants." These "Variants" not simple as names, means that there is not a steadfast Word of God. Lots have changed. Doctrines are touched. Some are removed. Do not be deceived.
I have bookmarked the site and will turn to it often in my studies. Thank you, thank you for the clarity this brings to the church, Mark.
I'm honored! As is the team of volunteers who helped do the work!
@@markwardonwords Why would you even care what Saul had to say, he never even met Jesus?
What a surprising conclusion to come to! As always, enjoy your thoughtful take on the issues, and it’s hard for me to imagine how much work it took to get to the point where you can share such useful info with us. I knew some differences were because of translation choices but had no idea how much of the variation stemmed from this rather than the underlying text. Thanks much
Thank you kindly!
Great stuff as always Mark. I saved the site onto my iPhone home screen only to see the link/icon already existed in my Bible Study area…. Time to get into it! Thanks!
Enjoy!
Thanks so much for all of the hard work you have put into this brother
My pleasure!
Thank you, Mark for comparing the TR & Critical Text. You did a great job of explaining nuances between them. Keep up the good work.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you, Mark! This is site is truly helpful and look forward to digging deeper into it in the future. Your third point echoes my recent feelings after reading Dave Brunn's book "One Bible, Many Versions" where he addresses how the common literal translations are not all that literal (compared to something like YLT) and the difficulties of Biblical translation in general. I finished the book feeling that my own struggles between TR/CT, and our vast selection of excellent versions, was extremely petty compared to those that none or even just one translation in their own language. As Dr Wallace says, it truly is an embarrassment of riches.
RIGHT! I love this comment!
Thank you for advertising this remarkable Bible study tool. And thank you for your closing comments that affirmed Christians using Bibles from both the TR and CT. Since I’ve studied out the translation issue, I’ve wrestled with whether I need to “fully commit” to one camp or the other. I currently serve at a church that uses the NKJV, a TR-based translation. But I happily consult and study from CT-based Bibles as well. Do I need to choose? How long will I limp between two opinions? 😏 But your closing thoughts helped me see the value in holding on to both. For now, I’ll continue to study primarily from a TR Bible. But if the Lord ever opened the door to another ministry that used a CT Bible, I would have little to no trouble adjusting. I like that flexibility a lot.
How can I lay any specific view on your conscience, brother, when the payoff is so little and-far more importantly-the Bible gives me no explicit direction? I don't think you have to commit to anything in this realm unless God says so.
As a thought--working through variants is like working through other difficulties--perhaps the point is working through them is a meditative act. God didn't make it simple in all passages because theological engagement should be thought provoking.
Halt!, brother. 😉
Thanks for all the work you do bro , it’s very helpful
My pleasure!
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and reasonable presentation. I became excited with this entire subject of textual criticism a few short years ago when a parishioner asked me a question that I could not answer at that time. I came to the same conclusion that you did regarding the differences & similarities between the TR and the CT--including leaning toward the CT. I also agree that Christians should not fight over this issue. By the way, my own analysis of Revelation confirms your suspicions that the number of variants between the CT & the TR in that NT book are greater in percentage than for any other NT book. Thanks again for your channel. I'm a subscriber and enjoy it immensely!
Great video and great resource, Mark. I have been on this site before, but never realized exactly how I could use it. Thanks for the explanation and I look forward to seeing it on Logos.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you, Mark! This video was very helpful because of your compassionate manner and scholastic insights. I hope the website of the KJV parallel bible continues to grow!
I adore the NASB and NKJV. It is so important to realize an English translation is still a translation. We must rely on the Holy Spirit for discernment and clarification. Thank you so much for your vlog. Blessings to you.💗💗💗
Well said!
Absolutely!! Makes sense to me sistre Burton.
Then there are the deliberate mistranslations - like the eighth commandment in the KJV (which changed “thou shalt not steal the rewards of labour” to the shorter “thou shalt not steal” to avoid issues over slavery that the original commandment actually covered).
My favorites as well, NKJV and the NASB. I also like the NET Bible. Translation is good/different and the notes are outstanding regarding why words translated as such.
@@Nomad58 The LEGAL DEFINITION of slavery is not being adequately rewarded for labor (ie forced labor).
Thanks for making your hard work available to us "lay-people" who love the Word. I do use the various translations in their native "study-bible" formats and I've learned soooo much and now ~ more besides since I came in contact with your word.
In following along with some of your examples... I found even more variances again! I was using the "Interlinear Bible" by Cambridge (with the Authorized Version / Revised Version) and the "Logos International Study Bible" with Variorum readings and renderings, etc, by Logos. Also the NET Bible.
I am simply amazed at the dedication and hard work that was put into the translating of God's Word into English. Yes - I've learned so much and realize this is certainly an ongoing learning process and am enjoying every step of this journey in knowing God and His Word...
Thanks so very much with God's abundant blessing being upon you and yours!
Thank you!
I appreciate your hard work in producing KJVparallelBible. Thank you
Our pleasure (I say on behalf of the team of volunteers)!
Hi, this is excellent! I’ve been looking for something like this for ages. 🙂 T’would be great if you could make the link in description clickable. God bless!
God bless this important ministry. I would definitely buy an epub version of this.
I recently started reading GW translation Bible. I have really been enjoying how it flows. I was brought up strict on the KJV only. Your videos are very helpful and are positively provoking my thoughts. Thank you and God bless.
This is so cool!! How have i never heard of this before?!
Thanks so much for making this available!
You're very welcome!
Praise God! Thank you for the hard work and love you put into this, brother Mark. I am grateful that this is made free to us. May the Lord continue to bless you and your team.
You are very welcome!
Wow! This is so powerful and clarifying. Thank you so much for this great resource; it should be known both far and near.
You are so welcome! This very week a publisher is considering a print version!
Thanks for posting this video! A resource like this is perfect for my level of biblical/textual knowledge.
Glad to be of service!
Your work on this is really great. For a while I have thought about how the difference between translations could come from either the manuscripts or from nearly stylistic differences. I wondered what a TR in the idiom of the ESV would look like or the Latin Vulgate in the idiom of the ESV. Thank you!
Originally, about six or seven years ago, I thought about doing an ESV with the TR. Just figured it would be too hard to ask permission.
Wow! For someone who is just starting to get into Bible nerdiness, I am excited about this. Thank you!
You are so welcome!
Hi Mark, I just start to discover your amazing channel on YT. I'm from France and very passionate to understand and learn more about bible translations. I also work for a christian Bible mission.
I was just having the project to make a video series on YT in Frensh to share some of my own research that is somewhat similar.
I made a study of over 1000 differences I could find from various ressources.
I compared 7 formal frensh Bible translations ranged from more TR to more CT
Your project of your website is amazing but I was told that the NA28 is now slowly "getting back on track", and follows less the sinaiticus as before.
The problem for me is not the NA28 (what seems to be your source for th CT),
but the sinaitucus who is critisiced for probably more then 20 reasons.
To my (small) knowledge the sinaiticus is the real reason for creating the extremism of KJVO on the opposite side and basically putting a halt to textual critisism because we no longuer have confidence in our scolars. -because of how they received the sinaiticus.
It's a funny thing because Erasmus work from 1516 in some sense led to the reformation in 1517. The reformation is, among many other reasons, also due to Erasmus push to go back to the Bible : due to his work of textual critisism.
(fun fact : I put "Anno 1516" on an official Lego set I designed and made a video about it)
I would agree the KJVO went way too far and and you would have very reason to criticize them,
but the problem isn't solved until we have more clarity on the sinaiticus's (and maybe vaticanus) origins.
Getting to my research, I'm trying to get my own picture of how the texts could have changed in the early periods of transmission.
Putting aside the conspiracy theories I came up with a new theory when I was studying the transmission of the coran.
And I would very much like to have your thoughts on it.
Is it possible that the manuscripts of the CT suffer from omissions simply because it has been orally transmitted ?
I think an oral transmission could explain many many variants.
It was way more common in these days and people could learn huge portions of texts by heart.
Things like Christ-Jesus or Jesus-Christ is still a very unlikely error to make when you copy a text. But with oral transmission the text will easily fit the cultural ways of speaking. Same for the use of "him" or "he" instead of "Jesus". A very common difference.
(Until 7 years ago I didn't really much had the courage to use the name of Jesus too often. I had to practice as I grew spiritually. I completely understand it would be left out more often in a oral transmission.)
It also explains some of the portions that change places from one book to another.
It's maybe not going to solve the whole debate. But if the sinaitucus is put in a position where it's still valuable, but not overwhelmingly valuable we get to a more common ground.
Thanks for your great work and God bless you.
Here's my thought on this: I've got a hundred projects going, and I don't know when I'll finish this one, but I have been working through the New Testament looking for places where Sinaiticus and Vaticanus are the only manuscripts being relied upon for a particular reading. In other words, how often do Sinaiticus and Vaticanus really make a difference? This is a bit hard to judge, because perhaps there are times when they lend weight to a reading that is found in other manuscripts. But I most definitely predict that when I get done with this work and actually show off all the places where Aleph and B (the short names of those manuscripts) make a difference, people will be very much underwhelmed. The difference they make will be comparatively small, and the differences themselves will be very obviously unimportant. That's my hypothesis, in any case.
Have you read Dirk Jongkind on this?
www.amazon.com/dp/1433564092?tag=3755-20
Or Peter Gurry and John Meade? www.amazon.com/dp/B0BG93WSDX?tag=3755-20
This is brilliant. Thank you mark and your team of volunteers building this wonderful tool.
Can i ask what bible translation available would be closest to the right column CT so i could get this bible. Thanks
I really appreciate this. I started out reading the nasb and then was pulled to the King James buy some KJV only folks. Overtime I just began to realize that their claims of perfect inerrancy in that translation were not well supported and I started to see how much more effective it was to try to preach the gospel or minister to others in a language they understood. I really like how you point out that First Corinthian 14 teaches something must be intelligible in order to be edifying. That is pretty clear. Do you have any content related to the differences between the alexandrian Old Testament text and the masoretic text? God bless.
Love this comment.
I don't have any such content. I do plan to have some; I want to have John Meade on the channel. But I haven't gotten there yet. I'm a New Testament guy.
Thanks for this video it was very helpful. I have used Kjv for most of the 38 years and only used the different translation in study time but a number of years ago I started using NKJV and now am using LSB some. This was helpful in that I thought there was more Variances between the TR & CT so my hat off to you hard hard work. Ps I saw you were at the New River Gorge I grew up in West Virginia and I remember being there when it was being built keep up the great work
Glad this was helpful for you!
Thanks for doing this video Mark. I want to add something that might help someone out there. Scrolling through these tool pages does indeed point out the vast similarity between the two different texts. But what about when I compare two common English translations in Logos and see apparently many more differences than show up here...? This tool shows differences in the Greek texts, as they would be directly translated in English.....the differences we see between English translations demonstrate differences in translator choices...not necessarily the underlying Greek texts. Thanks again.
If you see differences that can't be accounted for with the KJV Parallel Bible site, you are almost certainly dealing with differences of opinion on how best to translate the same Greek words.
Wonderful. Thanks for your labors brother. The Lord bless you.
You are very welcome!
Thanks for your video! When it comes out in Logos, I definitely want it, and please let us know when it's in print. 🙂
I will announce both on my channel when the time comes!
What I would say I can not spill, I do hope you do get it printed. Thank you for your hard work!
I hope so too!
Thank you for all the tedious work and scrutiny involved in providing this resource to the church.
Great video Mark! I do not lean toward any manuscript family. I am very grateful we have all three families of Greek manuscripts in the Critical Text, Received Text and the Majority Text. In these three texts, we have God's Word. We are truly blessed. I personally like the NLT CT, NKJV TR and the WEB MT.
Right! All are yours.
This has to be the best presentation I’ve ever heard on the issue of textual criticism. I’ve been TR for a bit now, but man this puts things in perspective and maybe lays the issue to rest for me.
“Mint and cumin… a tempest in a small teapot” indeed. Thank you for your labors in the kingdom Mark.
My wife and I will be moving to a town in Tennessee you soon that is very strong in their KJV ONLY beliefs. Having a resource like this, especially in booklet form, I believe will be extraordinarily helpful to pull people out of that religious trap from textual terrorists. God bless you.
Thank you! This is very meaningful to me. I do indeed want to rescue people from the trap of KJV-Onlyism-and to help those Christians who in God's providence must attend KJV-Only churches to quietly, humbly weed out the silliness they hear and get only the good.
MAKE SURE to listen to an even better presentation (I think!), the one given by my respected friend Darrel Post, on this channel: ruclips.net/video/USrR43nflPU/видео.html
Really interesting video Mark, thanks, I bet that site took a few hours to put together so thanks for investing the time and making it available to us. Looking forward to when it hits Logos, if you could it would be good to know when this is so I can get a copy :-) Thanks. I am in a similar position to the guy who wrote to you in that I'm feeling both sides seem to be pushing how bad the other translation is while having no way to judge in validate what they are saying. I think a few hours in your site will be very useful so I can understand when people are talking from sense or prejudice,
Right! I feel kind of alone in saying that the TR is not bad, even though the CT is superior.
Thanks for this, Mark. I've typically leaned towards the CT, but because of your videos and some discussions you've had with other folks, I've begun to take a closer look at the TR and the MT. I fully agree that the differences are minimal and theologically insignificant. So, why is everyone fighting? Let's stop straining at gnats, shall we? We have Good News to proclaim!
Right! Minimal!
Love this tool, Bro. Mark!! One of my favorite Bibles is the Byzantine Alexandrian Greek New Testament by C.W. Steinle. It accomplishes the same work you’ve done but in the original Koine Greek comparing the Stephanus TR from 1550 to the Nestle CT from 1904. I only wish we had a similar tool for comparing the Byzantine Text to the NA28! I also love your overall point regarding maintaining fellowship between the various text camps! My only small gripe is that you tend to rightly point out the bad behavior of the TR/KJV ONLY crowd but ignore or downplay the exact same hysteria I observe from many Critical Text proponents. Personally, I’ve always thought we should teach people to focus on the small number (7 or 8?) of significant passages that are up for debate rather than getting lost in the weeds concerning the numerous insignificant variants!
Excellent comment. Will consider your point about bad behavior among CT proponents.
Thanks so much for this great tool. I use it regularly!
You're very welcome!
Refreshing, brother! THANK YOU!!!
And of course to He Who inspired you...🙏👏👏👏
I pray this project is a help to you.
Great video brother ! I would purchase a print copy in a heartbeat when/ If available!
I'm hopeful!
Thank you Brother Mark for providing an amazing resource. I was recently propelled on a quest to get to the bottom of the KJV only debate - had no idea what all was behind that issue. This vide is one of the handful that helped me wrap my head around it and settle the matter. Textus Receptus or Critical Text? Yes please, I'll take both.
Right!
Dear Mark, Thank you Kindly. This was a very good presentation. It has given me a better understanding with regard to the Textus Receptus and the Critical Text. - With Kind Regards and CHRIST's Unfailing Love, Jimmy Linneman, Ephesians 1:7
Glad it was helpful!
Dr. Ward, for us old timers who love our books, please do try to get this out in print.
Thank you and Bless you for your work.
Noted!
Yep, I'm another one of those old timers who love the printed page. I will be among the first to get one!
@@markwardonwords this is an incredible resource! Would it be possible for you to work with someone to produce a similar resource in Spanish with the RVR1960?
Yes this would be a great in print!
I agree!!! Books please! When the world goes down the toilet we might not have internet.
Great presentation as ever Mark, keep up the good work. From your occasionally critical Messianic brother.
Thank you kindly!
Super helpful. Thank you for such a tremendous gift to the world.
You are so welcome!
As a person with some mental illness and obsessive tendencies, I REALLY appreciate you demystifying this dichotomy between the TR and CT.
This has helped me a ton. I now feel like I can just relax and know that "the Bible is the Bible" it's just really really wonderful to know that the Greek text is pretty much identical for the majority of it. This is such a relief to me, honestly.
I've been spending a lot of energy and time trying to figure out this text versus that text, this interlinear vs that one, etc, and I've been second guessing myself and kind of making myself sick.
But now I feel so happy and ready to just dive as deep as I can into my ESV/NA28 I just got from Amazon.
I do think it's the very best interlinear I could have gotten, but I'm very very very relieved to know that none of the options are really THAT different.
This is so awesome.
Thanks a TON, Brother!!!
I Love you.
You are so smart and articulate, and keyed in to what is most interesting and important. You're so awesome. 💪🏻🐨❤️📚✝️
Thank you!
Excellent work Mark. I really appreciate the spirit with which you communicate this unnecessarily heated debate. Now, since you did this, could you please tackle the differences between the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint? As someone who studies the whole Bible and noticed how much certain NT quotes either did not match, or are removed from, the MT, I would love to see someone do this in English for the lay people who are adamant Bible Nerds.
This is tough. A worthy subject for videos. John Meade is someone I might turn to to help us here. Maybe an interview.
Wow! What a cool resource! Thanks!
My pleasure!
love your videos btw!
Glad you like them!
Amazing, Mark! Thank you for this gift! I’m okay with my NIV Women of Faith SB’s footnote of “Or his only begotten Son” for Jn.3.16.
Thank you so much. What a great resource! Spurgeon said, and I, in variance, paraphrase, "All Scripture, honestly translated, is worthwhile." Go 80's Lakers!
I tended to favor the Bulls at the time, but for no good reason other than that Jordan was more famous (to me) than Johnson!
Jordan or Magic, Lakers or Bulls, regardless, seriously, thanks for creating the KJV Parallel website. Outstanding resource.
Wonderful resource, thanks so much for all your hard work in coming up with this useful tool. The CT part is basically the KJV NT had it used the CT! That's the best of both worlds - the beauty of the KJV text and the accuracy of the underlying Greek text! Is there by any chance a plan to publish just the CT portion in print or as a Logos resource? That would be awesome!
Yes! A print publication is very much possible! I have a publisher that examining the possibility now!
And it’s definitely coming to Logos. Timeline uncertain.
@@markwardonwords Yay! Thanks much, I'd be looking forward to this!
Brother Mark, thank you for this amazing tool and for the clarification that your work and this video brings to this issue. I am breathing a sigh of relief to know that I should be using both TR based and CT based Bibles in my study of God's word. Thanks again.
Right! Or at least that you have that liberty!
Glad this is coming to Logos! I have an external link mapped to toolbar button now but it will be so useful to have it native.
Gonna PM you with an idea!
I really appreciate your graciousness and desire for believers to be confident in the word of God regardless of the underlying manuscript tradition. Thank you.
Wow, thank you!
I asked the Holy Spirit to lead me to the right Bible Translation, I never heard of you and I do not know how God led me to your expertise in Bible Translations, CT, and TR All I can say is Thank You Mark Ward and to God be the Glory………I feel abbsolutely free in this area now !
Wonderful!
Mark, I'm fascinated by your Philippians 1:11 sample where you said "fruits" and "fruit" are minor differences. As a layperson who doesn't know any Gk nor Hebrew, I've been told that the significance of the singular "fruit" is its connection to the same singular "fruit in Psalm 1 and Galatians 5, which to me meant that the work of the Holy Spirit in a believer is like a big bag filled with all of His indwelling in us (love, joy, peace, etc). So if I understood you correctly, the fruit of righteousness here includes all of the fruits of righteousness anyway so it doesn't really matter, is that correct?
❤❤❤ Only a few minutes in. New to this channel… just subscribed. I hope there is a printed version of KJV Parallel or maybe will be some day. ❤❤❤
Just made it to the end of the video and see there is no print version… yet. And maybe logos soon. I very much enjoyed the note from the person that summarized TR vs CT shared at the end. So good and so well said. Everyone be sure to listen to that part.
I'm still hopeful!
@@markwardonwords I will be waiting patiently
Thank you for this video.
Your mention of cumin is appreciated.
You're so welcome!
Man, this is wonderful, Mark. I can't wait to use the parallel bible.
Wonderful! I'd love to hear your thoughts when you do.
@@markwardonwords absolutely. I'll check it out over the next few days and send you a short email.
Thank you so much, Brother Mark, for your diligent and painstaking work in creating the website and Bible comparison tool. They are invaluable. I only wish that you had answered the question you pose in the title, "How Different Are the TR and the CT?", in terms of a percentage. For what percentage of the NT are the two editions in complete agreement? For what percentage do they differ? Do you give this statistic on your website? Do you provide other statistics as well? Let me hazard a guess: I going to say that the CT and the TR agree on 85% of the NT text and that in only 15% of the text are significant differences found. 85% and 15% give or take a few percentage points. What do you say, Mark?
I have done this, and I will be putting this info into an upcoming book. The best answer is probably between 95and 97% the same. I checked with a statistics expert on the best way to come up with number. However, statistics don't tell you how different the two texts are *in meaning.* Sprinkle a bunch of "nots" in a text, and you can reverse the meaning while still having only a tiny percentage of differences in words. The only way to see how different they are in meaning, if you don't read Greek, is to laboriously compare them on my site.
I proudly study both text in English language (NASB & KJV) and under no circumstances I try to use KJV to correct NASB or vice versa and thanks for this balanced presentation.
What a an awesome resource this website is! Thank you, Mark, for your work on this and contribution for the edification of the church!
It's my delight!
Hi first video I’ve ever watched of you and I gotta just say I’m now a fan you seem genuine and it’s relaxing. If you see this what do you think of James whites Greek ability’s? Is he well known in the textual criticism world?
He's regarded like me, I think: as a popularizer. He's also what I'm not: a debater. The scholarly world sees value in those things. But I'm not aware that White tries to advance the discipline of textual criticism, if that's what you're asking. I don't either. Not my lane. Nothing wrong with that, I think!
@markwardonwords I know he taught koine greek but I heard someone say he's a fraud I don't think he's a fraud in his greek abilities. Maybe a little cocky, alot of the time but I think he is important as I think of you (not the cocky part) I've now binged a bunch of your videos and am a huge supporter of what you do and think you have vast importance in popularizing or being a bridge between the scholarly world and people like me. So thank you.
Just wanted to say thank you for your excellent work and tremendous effort. We know that God is pleased when we make brothers and sisters come closer and understand each other better. You are furthering advancement of his kingdom.
Wow, thank you!
I would buy several if it came to print. Let us know if there are advancements as far as this!
Thanks!!
Mark, thank you. That website is a great resource. Really appreciate it. I do have one comment regarding your statement that the Bible hasn't been perfectly preserved. When all the manuscripts are considered, we can be confident that we have every inspired word that the original contained. Among all the variants, one is the original. The historic Protestant position was that the apographs (copies) contain the pure word of God. What good is it to say (as many churches do) that the Bible is inspired "in the original manuscripts" when no one has seen them for centuries? I am not a TR or KJV onlyist, BTW. I am interested to hear your thoughts on this. I love your channel and your book. Thanks again.
My friend, you are mixing talking points from the two camps. I am confident that all the words of God are preserved by the manuscript tradition of both testaments. Using all the evidence we can find the original. So I would not say that our lack of the originals means that we have nothing to value. Does that make sense?
Could Philippians 1:11 (mentioned here: 26:06) be distinguished by “which are” and “that is” (rather than “which” and “that”) to highlight the plural and singular Greek words? I don’t think “the fruit… that are” is as direct a translation as “the fruit… that is”. Just a thought. God bless!
What is the Bible you hold up at the 6:00 mark in the video? It looks very nice
I think that’s an older Legacy Heirloom ESV.
This definitely needs to be in printed form, as well as an app!
I hope it will be!
@@markwardonwords I set up a shortcut on for the websit on my phone and was looking through it this morning. It's such a great tool!
That’s it ! I’m KJB/NASB only :)
Great job , you have helped me personally so much brother Mark .
Great to hear!
NASB is corrupted to
Just stick to the KJV and you are safe
Thank you Mark.
Blessings and love to you and your family.
Same to you!
Thank you, Brother Mark 🌹⭐🌹⭐🌹
You are so welcome!
My pastor preaches from the NKJV however my NASB2020 is very very similar almost word for word. When I used the ESV it was not as close as the NNJV.
✔
Poor Pistons...lol. Thanks for this Mark! It dramatically illustrates how minor the variances are. A tremendous gift.
Thank you!
Bro. Mark,
Do you have a video describing WHY you prefer the CT over the TR?
No, because I truly don't care to persuade others to my viewpoint-not given my overall mission and audience. But it boils down to this: I have a stronger belief in the value of God's preservation than KJV-Onlyists do. I think we ought to take into account every manuscript of the Greek New Testament that God has preserved, not just the ones that happened to be on hand when Erasmus decided to publish a revision of the Vulgate.
Yes sir. I was just curious. I made the MEV my daily reader a few years ago.
i have found that the 1967 scofield has quite a few updates while maintaining the KJV flavor. Holy Spirit instead of Holy Ghost, tender mercies instead of bowels of mercies. but the thees, thous, etc, ye, verilies are kept. and i mostly ignore the dispy notes
Thank you so much for this video. It was enlightening and I've now bookmarked the KJV Parallel Bible website. I would definitely purchase the printed version, if available.
I attend a KJV only church, but personally have no issue with other versions. I use several when i'm unclear of the meaning of a passage. But I was hoping you could comment on one advantage I see in having a standard version used in the church. The Psalmist tells us to hide God's word in our heart, which we interpret as the memorization of scripture. It seems to me there is a great advantage if we are all memorizing the same thing and understand the verses in the same way. Am I in error?
Not at all! I say the very same thing in the first chapter of my book, Authorized: The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible.
But we have to weigh values: put on the KJV side of the scale the value you describe (although, don't forget that if your church switched wholesale to the NKJV you'd get the same value!); then put on the other side of the scale the value of reading the Bible in your own English. Which should weigh more? What do you think?
@@markwardonwords Thank you for responding so quickly! My point was that I believe it's good for the church to have a standard translation that is preached from the pulpit, whether or not, it's the KJV. Personally, I love the KJV as I believe it to be a good translation with a beauty of language I don't find in other translations. But neither do I believe, like some, that the KJV itself was dvinely inspired.
Of course, I was the guy who asked the pastor in front of the entire congregation if I could read from the Apocrypha since it was in the original 1611.
Hey mark! what is the best way to ask you questions?
Right here. If it's private, use my contact form: byfaithweunderstand.com/contact
I'm past the stage where I can answer everyone. =| But I do try to say at least *something.*
Excellent work Mark, thanks 🙏
Glad you enjoyed it!
Well, it doesn’t do anyone any good to not apologize when they’re wrong. I don’t like being wrong, so I try to do whatever I can to fix it even if it means backing down on the internet. Funny thing, I finished teaching the last lesson in Psalms in Sunday School yesterday. I came to the KJV in my adult years after looking into the different versions quite a bit. I am an artist, so maybe that’s why it appeals to me so much and I’ve read through the whole thing many times front to back. Anyway, thanks for the link, I’ll check out those videos. I listen to this sort of thing while I work so now I have some material to go through. I’m looking forward to it.
I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Very good Mark. I 👍 agree with everything you said. God Bless
Thank you kindly!
Doesn't the NKJV include these differences at the bottom of their Bibles? (Your website is a great resource either way)
Yes, but a) not all the differences and b) the overall picture provided by the KJV Parallel Bible is more valuable than the NKJV footnotes (for this purpose) because the similarities and not just the differences are pictured.
Happy to be an Honorary Bible Nerd! Thanks! This is awesome!
Welcome aboard!
@@markwardonwords Thank you!
This would probably be an entire second and third project, but you could also compare OT books comparing Masoretic and Septuagint or MT and Qumran texts.
I’d love to see others do that!
I hope a print edition does become available.
It's looking likely! Not certain.
Thanks again Mark for your commitment to Text type's and the humbleness in your presentation's thereof. I've been a Christian 44 year's and my calling puts me in the "exegesis and exposition" camp with a teaching ministry. I find much harmony with your balanced evaluations between the Text's, and because of this I would like your opinion surrounding a choice in translation of a word. In Paul's 2nd epistle to the Thessalonian's the 2nd chapter verse 2, the Critical Text translates "JESUS" name as "Lord," pertaining to the day thereof. In the Received Text it is translated "Christ," pertaining to the day thereof. Context and content of the chapter reveals the day in question is the "harpazo." Obviously these two days are not compatible. Co-text's abide elsewhere for further discussion ,but will leave it here and await your reply should you chose to do so. This being said Covenant blessings and will greet you here , there or in the air. Again thank you.
This is a textual difference. The main TR vs. the main critical text. But I don't think this difference needs to be a difference in meaning, in reference. Check commentaries to see if they think so, but I doubt it.
Paul otherwise uses "Day of Christ" exclusively in Philippians, so the Received Text reading is possible but inconsistent with the terminology he had previously used in his correspondence with Thessalonica. In 1 Thessalonians, he uses the traditional "Day of the Lord" from the prophetic books, and the 2 Thessalonians passage would be his only other use of this specific phrasing if the Critical Text reading is correct.
In the Corinthian letters, he speaks of the "Day of the Lord Jesus" or some variant thereof. Otherwise, it's simply "the Day" or "that Day" with no modifiers (except for one instance of "Day of Redemption" in Ephesians). He likely means the very same "day" that he mentioned in his Areopagus sermon from Acts 17, "a day in which [God] will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he has ordained."
Paul makes no clear effort to distinguish between these terms, nor does he treat them as separate from the "coming of our Lord Jesus Christ," which he refers to extensively in the Thessalonian letters and once in the first Corinthian letter. Paul never indicates that the "harpazo" is separate from the "parousia" or the "hemera."
But it is worth noting that the two dispensationalist commentaries I checked (McGee's "Thru the Bible" and MacDonald's "Believer's Bible Commentary") both preferred the reading "Day of the Lord" because it corresponded better with their pre-tribulation rapture beliefs. So there is that.
Mark, it would seem to me there is a great expositional difference between these passage's. Contextually it would be impossible to equate both reference's to one event. Clearly one is referencing the " harpazo" and the other the "day of Divine vengeance or wrath." But thanks for the reply. Looking forward to further " iron sharpening iron" with you.@@markwardonwords
Thanks for your reply. Would enjoy further discussion with you.@@MAMoreno
When you provide Revelation 21:24 as an example of the TR "smoothing the text," I'm still a little confused. Are you saying the KJV translators "added" English text for clarification or are you hypothesizing a reason why writers/copyists of certain manuscripts "added" Greek text? A look on my Blue Letter Bible, using the Interlinear function, suggests you may mean the latter, but I don't want to misunderstand. In any case, isn't it just simply an example of a variant? Thanks for this tool! I do use it from time to time!
Good question! I'm talking about Greek here, not English. The KJV translators did not add English text, not to my knowledge. I am hypothesizing about why copyists of certain manuscripts "added" Greek text, for whatever reason-whether they pulled in a clarifying gloss from the margin of the text they were copying or what have you.
1. I'm thinking why don't you put this in Logos, then a few minutes later you say it's going in Logos, hopefully the package I have (Diamond) will be enough? I'd like to hear more either way.
2. Print version, I'm on board with that! (can you dress it up with an actual Glossary, KJV Translators notes, Translators to the Readers, and any other relevant commentary you think is important? Hopefully many will find it a must have.
Generally I've been wanting a Variant Study Bible anyway. (I should start making notes and requirements...)
3. I use the KJV, NKJV, NASB98 & LSB as my primary, I tend to think of things in the Byzantine/Alexandrian framework with the TR & CT respectively being the current backdrop for most of our language translations. Suffice to say, I really want to see more clarity come to this issue, hopefully resulting in less confusion around the Bible and it's validity. There's a long complicated conversation to be had here I'll avoid.
Great work.
Thank you! Cheers!
sorry for the question but what is that awesome font at 1:44 ?
Skolar!
@@markwardonwords Thanks even the greek characters? Thanks!
@@EstudiaLaPalabra Yes. This is the font used for Lexham Press books, and it used to be the Logos font. I love it!
Your thoughts on the variant at 2 Peter 3:10? Burned up vs. found/exposed
I don't accept conjectural emendations. I point to Al Wolters' article on this: drops.forwarddesigner.net/f/ogyptg
I'm gonna have to reach for an OED!
On the KJV Parallel Bible website, how do I take the quiz ... Which TR ?
I think I had to take it down. This is all that’s left: kjvparallelbible.org/which-tr-stephanus-vs-beza/
@@markwardonwords Ok. It sounded interesting. Thanks for responding and thanks for your work !
I heard james white say that the TR was piece mealed together from fragments. And when they didnt have a fragment they improvised. Is that true?
Basically yes. It’s a bit more complicated.
Mark, sometimes I wish you were not so nice and eloquent of speech so I could continue in my Byzantine Priority mindset and not have to rethink those convictions. No, seriously - you have done a great service to our family - our Christian family (and I mean all of us who name Jesus as Lord and Savior). We are in need of healing and, speaking for myself, in need of a bit more objective and critical thinking on this subject. I appreciate the work you have done (and are doing) - thank you and well done!
Thank you! I hope you know that I don’t mind Byzantine Priority at all-I just want the disagreement we have to be treated as a matter of Christian liberty about which the Lord has not chosen to provide certainty. I really appreciate your words.
On the one hand, I entirely agree with Mark Ward that the TR/MT vs. the CT debate is a tempest in a teapot. Like Ward, I'd happily rely on a modern English translation based on the TR/MT like the NKJV vs. my current favorites the ESV and CSB which are largely based on the CT. The NT has tremendous multiple attestation, whether one's English translation is primarily based on the TR/MT or the CT. And the differences are indeed minor.
On the other hand, this can be a crucial issue for some Christians. What I mean is if a Christian ultimately believes their faith hinges on a particular text tradition like the TR or the Byzantine text type, if their faith in the Bible is so closely connected to faith in the TR and the KJV, then this could leave them open to a crisis of faith if they begin to significantly doubt the TR/KJV to such a degree that they begin to throw out their faith as they begin to throw out the TR/KJV. Of course, this need not happen, there are many Christians who lose faith in the TR without losing faith in the Bible, but I'm not referring to these latter Christians. Rather I'm speaking about those Christians who regard faith in the TR as tantamount to faith in God's word that it's an all-or-nothing mentality. They have the same or similar mentality to Bart Ehrman: an all-or-nothing mentality about textual variants, text types, and so on. It's a false dichotomy that need not be. (As a side note, I suppose this could happen with the CT too, but a key difference is most of those primiarly favor the CT likewise favor textual eclecticism, at least to my knowledge.)
I do think we need to show special care for Christian consciences. But at the very least, the Bible needs to trump the conscience on translation. And let’s remember that a ton of KJVO consciences show no compunction telling other people their Bibles are corrupt and demonic.
@@markwardonwordsDefinitely! Thanks for that. Perhaps I should've been clearer, but I was trying to suggest what you've just said far more succinctly than I could have, that ultimately "the Bible needs to trump the conscience on translation". I find many KJVO online with this all-or-nothing mentality that I find especially troubling since I see it could be a slippery slope toward apostasy (and not all slippery slopes are necessarily logically fallacious).
@@pattube Right! I see!
This is a video i may share w the kjvo people in my life. Its been a struggle for years. Love the hard work you continue to do, to clarify an issue that need not divide faithful Christians
I pray they will heed you!
Excellent! Thank you
My pleasure!
I’d definitely buy a book version, and a companion that had the Greek beside the Greek highlighted differences. Now, you have to work on the Septuagint vs Masoretic differences side by side.
That really would be valuable.