Absolutely excellent video. I am a new goat owner trying to make sure I am very informed on what to do if something happens with my goats and I found this video to be informative and very well demonstrated. Thank you 🙏 please keep making more
I am very fortunate to have found your videos. Many others have helped in raising sheep, but you are the best!!! You may have no idea how helpful you are. A life saver! I am always looking forward to view your latest videos!!! How did you acquire so much knowledge and wisdom? Many thanks.
Thank you for the kind words and for watching our videos. I grew up working on a sheep farm that raised over 100 head of breeding ewes. I also work in healthcare which helps me to have a strong working knowledge of medications and procedures. Thanks again!
We dont have CL vaccines in Kenya, however this video is very very detailed , useful and timely. Thanks a lot . Wished i could press the like button multiple times.
Thank you for this! Wish there were mkre videos like these for the small livestock holder. Our farm vet is outrageously priced, and if I just knew what to do/give, I could do it myself. So appreciate your help!
Wow. What a thorough and excellent explanation of this procedure. We have a goat with an abscess on her neck right above her wattle. As a new goat owner, it's like a ticking time bomb. However, your presentation was so calm and matter of fact that I feel a bit less concerned about the situation. Thanks again! Should one expect to be draining abscesses for the rest of the goat's life? Just curious, did the sample come back positive for CL?
We have seen multiple outcomes. Some animas seem to get recurring abscesses but most will get one or 2 and then you won’t see it again. The sample on this goat came back positive. So far as I know, she has never had another.
Amazing! Help! Just this evening, our new buck had an abscess rupture. I had supplies, but no iodine or syringe. I used povidone. In the morning I will check and clean him up again and attempt to clean out his abscess. Thank you Tim.
Thank you for this video! Helpful as I prepare to do this on one of our goats. You’ve made this feel much less daunting than I was originally feeling about it. Also, what breed is this goat? I have one almost exactly like her, I was told full boer. But just curious!
Thank you for this video! I have a ewe with an access by her mouth (which i assumed was from a thorn or something similar), but then one lymph node at the top of her throat is also slightly swollen (we're talking a very small lump that doesn't stretch the skin). Is that a smoking gun for CL, or a natural sign that her body is fighting infection from the thorn poke? All of the sources but I have read want to cry CL anytime lymph nodes are enlarged, without addressing the fact that these things swell up anytime the body is fighting anything.
It’s difficult to say for sure. She could be having lymph node swelling on that side due to the abscess in her mouth. Lymph nodes are all throughout the body and will usually swell “downstream” from an active infection. This is true with humans as well. CL abscesses are usually very large once they progress and the hair or wool will fall off the abscess as it gets closer to rupturing. Common size of CL abscesses can get around the size of a golf ball. Contents are generally yellow to white in color and the consistency of tooth paste. The contents usually have no odor. If it is CL, don’t be overly discouraged. This is a wide spread issue that effects many farms and has many methods of transmission. Birds, flies, boots, etc are just a few of the ways this can be transmitted besides the obvious problems involved with bringing in infected animals.
There is no longer a goat CL vaccine formulated in the US. Premier1 has been giving advice on how to use the sheep CL vaccine. You can contact their customer service and ask them.
Thank you, I appreciate this video. My sheep has an abscess on the side of her nose, not on it nose itself, but between the cheek and the nose. Can I still do this procedure on her?
Hello and thanks for watching our video. Yes, you can still do this. Just be cautious and take your time. Don’t make any larger incision than necessary.
Hey there! Thank you so much for your very informative video and info. I checked jeffers pet supply but it doesn’t appear that they carry the goat cl vaccine anymore. I’ve checked everywhere without success. Would you possibly know where or who may carry one now?
Unfortunately, the got CL medication has been discontinued. 🫤 We have not used the sheep medication in it’s place so we can’t give you much insight into how this would help.
All of this has recently changed as the manufacture of the goat vaccination has stopped being produced. At this point, there aren’t any clear answers as to what we should do. We are currently working on this issue and should have some answers soon.
Unfortunately, they have discontinued the vaccine. We need to make an updated video. We are now injecting 10% formalin into the abscess in order to treat it and prevent it from spreading. The sheep vaccine is still available but it is not the same and supposedly will not work for goats. We will have a new video coming out soon.
Great job explaining and showing the entire procedure! I have a question about my Sheep that I was wondering if you have any ideas about... Do you know of anything that could cause a ewe to itch off their skin between their horn and their eye? We have one ewe that does not have lice, mites, has been dewormed, is in good body condition and every summer itches under her horns until it is raw. She is the only one in the herd that is affected. She leaves it alone all fall/winter, but come summer she always itches it until it is raw for multiple months. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
Hello. There are a few different issues which may be going on. More than likely, it is some time of fungal infection in that area. Try to wash her off well and treat her with an anti fungal spray every day for a week.
We just have a few goats, and I have been looking for the vaccine for CL but have not been able to find any. Texas Vet Labs(now Bimeda Biologicals), no longer makes theirs unless it is herd specific and you must purchase 100 vials. Also tried to find the Colorado Serums to no avail. So is there any other option for vaccinating.
Unfortunately, no. Many people have started using formalin injections into CL abscesses. You need to be very sure you are dealing with CL prior to injecting formalin though.
Thank you. That is what I came here to see. Also about the smell. One extension article said cl has a strong smell. Every other article I found said it has no smell. I have not had CL in my herd, knock on wood. I had a scare recently though. It was in an area most likely to be a saliva duct infection or a thorn in his cheek. It ruptured on its own. The contents were liquid, grey and smelled awful even without getting very close to it. I cleaned it the best I could without help, sprayed it with blukote and screw worm spray, and gave him LA 200. Continuing the LA 200. He has been isolated since this happened. No goat vets in my area who actually reply, show up or know goats well. I'll look for the sample swab you showed us just in case and vaccinate the herd if it is CL. I don't think so after seeing what the cheesy goo actually looks like. Thank you.
Hello. Some will argue with me on this but you can generally have a 90% accuracy with a consistency and smell check. I’ve been dealing with CL on multiple farms for about 10 years and helping people limit and treat it. Historically, I can tell you samples I have sent in that came back positive had zero smell and very thick, off-white to yellow color. The first thing I usually check is the smell. If it smells, it’s almost always NOT CL. Specific bacteria have a certain smell. CL has none. In healthcare (unfortunately) you start to develop a nose for these things. Although, not scientific, I can tell you that I can tell with a certain degree of accuracy if I’m dealing with staph, CL, ecoli, a GI bleed, etc by simply smelling. The only real way to know is through sampling/lab. Unfortunately, the lab that was making the CL vaccine for goats has stopped and at this time there is no acceptable replacement. The sheep vaccine cannot be used for goats effectively. We have been treating abscesses with buffered formalin solution just prior to rupture with good results and antibiotics as you are already doing. In your case, I would assume you have a general abscess. Keep us posted.
@@LinessaFarms thank you for the info. I am slightly calmer now and hoping statistics are on my side, and his dirty sock mixed with dirty dishes smelling liquid was a run of the mill infected thorn poke. I have a sample packaged to send off for testing to make sure. I'm disappointed to read that the vaccine is out of production. I'll keep an eye out for it to become available. Hopefully it is not an urgent matter of protecting my herd from an infection that found its way here.
Yes. If the area is very hairy or wool covered, it would help to shave the area first. Many abscesses will lose hair on the affected area so you will have to see what you’re dealing with. Good question. Thank you!
I just tested a sheep abscess. I am glad it was negative. However, the vet said don't worry it 's not zoonotic, but that is not my understanding. Maybe she means it does not present in the same manner in humans. But I am glad we tested it. We haven't done any blood tests though, just the external abscess we saw.
This was a great video! I have a doe is has it and I need to lance it. Can you please list out each product you used with details as well as where you bought it? I heard you say you can only get lidocaine from the Vet but I am still fairly new to goats. The details would be very helpful. Thanks!
Hello Kim. You can pick up everything you need from any major farm store. We used a scalpel for the incision and injected the area with a 50/50 mix of hydrogen peroxide and iodine once done. The cup I am holding is just a generic plastic measuring cup. I would advise picking up your needles, syringes, and scalpels at tractor supply or any other large farm store. You can pick up the other supplies more cost effectively at Walmart. Thanks for watching our videos and for the feedback.
good one, thank you. on another note what minerals do you give your sheep? I know salt but what do you put in with it? thanks again and keep up the good work
We like to use a free choice mineral specifically made for sheep or goats. We offer the mineral and sodium bicarbonate. We have a video coming out soon. 👍🏻
This was a great video. I watched it a while back and am revisiting to ask a question about the vaccine. Can you give the initial two doses to pregnant does? I believe mine are about 6-8 weeks bred. I know you likely give the booster to does 30 days prior to kidding but that’s a single dose and much later in gestation than we are now. I’d like to vax asap so we can let them out on pasture that may be infected by goats we are culling later in the fall who have had abscesses (culls for more reasons than possible CL abscesses).
Hello! They have discontinued the goat vaccine and it is no longer available. We have wanted to make a video on this but we don’t have any animals with CL, which makes it difficult. MANY producers are now injecting CL abscesses with 10% buffered formalin. This kills everything in the abscess capsule without harming the animal. I will attach a link to an article on this below. I would not advise the CL vaccine for sheep (still in existence and won’t work for goats) to a pregnant ewe. We’ve heard of too many side effects. www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/caseouslymphadea.html
I would recommend shaving around where you plan to make the ìncision. It makes it easier to see what you're doing. It helps to keep it from reinfectìng. Cleans the area well with soap and water, the with iodine. As thick as the puss was, I would stick my finger in the hole to break the wall on any hidden pockets of infection. I would then flush it with dilute iodine. Check to see if their is a sack wall and try to remove it. I once treated a colt that had survived a Cougar attack. We removed a broken claw from the wound. I'm not a Vet, just an oĺd Cowboy.
What is the brand of goat vaccine? I can find the sheep one easy, but the goat one is not coming up for anything. Just had one of my sheep with a positive diagnosis and want to help prevent this in the rest of our animals. Thanks.
Thank you for the great question and thank you for watching our channel. If you have infected animals on your farm, you should vaccinate all (infected and non-infected). There are 2 exceptions and those are pregnant/lactating does and kids under the age of 5 months. The vaccine will help prevent the spread of the disease in your flock and will also help lessen symptoms and abscesses in your already infected animals. People can get CL and there are limited studies to reference. A clinical paper published in 1997 lists approximately 12 individuals and treatment. This appears to be a fairly rare phenomenon. Working in surgery and healthcare for many years, I can tell you I have never seen or heard of a case occurring. However…. Most infections could be expected to occur in the arms or hands and clinical signs would more than likely manifest in the axillary (armpit) lymph nodes. Treatment would be removal of infected nodes and antibiotic treatment. One could expect to be on long term antibiotic treatment and depending on medication regiment, central line/PICC line placement might be warranted (specifically for long term antibiotics such as Vancomycin). You could also expect patients to need CT imaging and ultrasound imaging as well as various bloodwork to confirm diagnosis. More than likely this would all involve your primary care provider, a general surgeon, and more than likely an infectious disease specialist…. So yeah, don’t get CL. On the bright side, if you wear gloves and practice proper hygiene, your risks are more than likely very low. Hope this helps answer your question.
@@LinessaFarms yes that helps. One of my goats sneezed in my face. I don’t know if she has it or not I’m just learning about this and a bit nervous of it all.
It is the same as the sheep vaccine at 1/2 the dose listed based on what I have been told. This is all second hand information I need to research. I will post something about this soon.
Hello, Kyle. Thanks for watching our videos and thanks for the question. The vaccine for goats has been discontinued and most producers are now using the sheep vaccine off label. I have not yet done this but I am being told the sheep vaccine is to be given at 1/2 recommended dose to the goat.
Thanks for the video. Very instructional!!! You mentioned to irrigate the cyst area with hydrogen peroxide, then you actually used Iodine. What type of Iodine solution did you use? Thanks
Hello! We use a 7.5% iodine solution. The irrigation you saw me use for the procedure is a 50/50 mix of iodine and hydrogen peroxide. Hopefully this helps. If you have any other questions, let us know. Thank you! Tim
This is a complex question. Some people will refrain from testing because they don’t want the animals to test positive for CL. I think that’s a little silly but not really my business. Evidence supports vaccination even if they have had it and reportedly helps prevent future abscesses. More recently since this video has been posted, many veterinarians have moved to either injecting the abscess with buffered formalin or even more recently, injecting the abscess with Draxxin and also treating the animal with Draxxin as well. This has shown to prevent contamination and help prevent future outbreaks.
Many of the producers have switched to injecting mature abscess with 10% buffered formalin. This kills the bacteria and significantly diminishes risk of contamination.
If my dairy goat has CL is it safe to still drink the milk and use in goat soap? I'm unsure if she has it or not she has hard egg shaped bump in between her jaw bones under her chin around her thyroid that I can move around under the skin? Thank you!
Merck Vet Manual says no. Since there can be CL abscesses internally, there is an assurance you will not put yourself in a dangerous position. Kids should be considered at increased risk as well. The only way to know for sure is to take a sample of the pus from the abscess and get it checked. With all this being said, is there any way this is her thyroid and is a goiter. If this is a goiter due to iodine deficiency, you can simply paint the bottom side of her tail with iodine for about 4 days and it will go away.
Did you vaccinate the goat after the treatment? If so, how soon? We had a suspected CL on an 8 mo old doeling lanced at the vet clinic on Monday. I have irrigated it twice since then (it isnt draining well) but she is currently the only goat here. Can I spray pens and ground with a bleach solution and bring other does in at some point? She was here with 2 market wethers (who showed no signs--they were all 3 4H projects) which we sold at the county fair end of July. She's been the only one here since then. Daughter loves her and wants to breed her in the future but if she can only be a pet, that's fine too.
Hello, Lynne and thanks for the question. This question comes up often and causes a lot of stress around the farm. Not so long ago, there was an often knee-jerk reaction to cull livestock suffering from CL. It was thought (incorrectly) that we could simply eradicate the disease through control and elimination measures. It is known now that CL is much harder to control than previously thought and many studies show it can be transmitted by horse flies, shearing, etc… most of us in the business will tell you, if you haven’t experienced it yet, you will. I don’t get excited about CL like I used to, especially since the vaccine is extremely effective. All of our goats are vaccinated as soon as possible. In the case of the goat from the video, she was vaccinated and all goats on her parent farm will be vaccinated as well. Both infected and non-infected goats should be vaccinated. The infected goats will show less (if any) symptoms again and this will prevent you from infecting other healthy goats as well. In your case, you will just want to vaccinate any new members to your flock. Your goat should have a buddy and I’m sure you will eventually get her one. The “downside” according to some people is, all your goats will test positive for CL antibodies after they have been vaccinated. My response to this is, so what? The alternative is to let them get infected. People are worried people will think they have CL if the blood test comes back positive. Over time, people will get over this. If you sell any goats, just let everyone know your goats are vaccinated. Most major producers are already adding the CL vaccine to their regiment and in short order it will be as common as CDT. So, long answer to your question, buy yourself some vaccine. Vaccinate the doe you have and any new goats you get. You can absolutely keep her and you should. Hope this helps. Thanks! Tim
Hello, Brian. Yes. If you have infected goats or sheep the vaccine helps to prevent future outbreaks. It is not curative, however it has shown to decrease symptoms significantly.
Could be damage from stickers or sharp objects while grazing. Depending on your location, it could also be botflies. If you are seeing hair loss around the nose and ears, you may want to consider treatment for mange mites as well. We like to use Dectomax.
Since cl is zoonotic then don't you think you shouldn't be telling people to cut the abscesses? Especially since the abscess is an easy way to catch it yourself if you happen to have a small cut or rub your nose or eyes? Why does it seem like you don't worry about any of this? There any additional info you have that's more reassuring? Can it be easily cured if you catch it or only treated? Thanks in advance for any info you can provide
As stated in the video, if you are not comfortable with performing the procedure, you should not. There are lots of considerations to make when doing this and there are lots of different methods. I will do my best to answer your questions. 1. It is zoonotic. This is why we mention multiple times to wear gloves, practice good hygiene, be cautious with sharp objects, and make sure to clean the site as well as possible. There are a lot of zoonotic diseases with sheep and goats that can make you very sick. These include but are not limited to ecoli, toxoplasmosis, orf, chlamydia, parasites, and others. The best I can tell you is to be responsible. Don’t rub your face with dirty hands, etc. this is good advice anytime you are handling animals at all. If I don’t seem concerned, it’s because I know what I’m doing and I’m not nervous or afraid. I also work in healthcare and perform surgical procedures on people. This is probably part of what you’re seeing as well. I think if you aren’t comfortable, just don’t do it. It’s not worth hurting yourself or the animal. We are simply showing people how to gather a sample of an abscess so they can get it tested. I have never heard of anyone catching this disease but I can speculate if you were to catch this, it would require diagnosis (more than likely through blood cultures, sampling of a lymph node, and more), and long term antibiotic therapy which may or may not involve long term IV antibiotics. I don’t know what kind of antibiotics this specific strain of bacteria is most susceptible to so it is difficult to say what specific medication administration would take place. I will answer your other questions as well. Check out your other comment to see them.
@@LinessaFarms You too! Thanks again for the info! Now, off to see what happens if it's caught. Always worried me tremendously that a drop of saliva, sneeze in the face, or anything like that can transmit many of these diseases.
You are correct. At the time, one was “labeled” for use for goats. We try (although not always possible) not to advise drugs that are off label but now that they stopped the sale of approved goat drug, we will just be using the sheep one for all of our goats and sheep. As you probably know, many of the drugs are off label for sheep and goats for everything from worming to antibiotics. It’s tough to advise drugs without getting dinged. Thanks for watching our videos and thanks for taking the time to leave a helpful comment. We appreciate it!
Calfs with infection in navel area, not ruptured but infected, we use iodine tablets, small incision slide tablets into hole turn it sideways so it doesn't fall out. It sets it on fire for a little bit but it cleans all of the infection out, works great for navels. Don't you think it would work for cl after draining it. You know grandma must have been a doctor, damn she put iodine on ever cut and scrape, lord help you if you had a big skinned place.
As you saw in the video, we flush it with an iodine solution. As far as “curing it” no. CL is an infection within the body. It would kill what’s in the specific abscess but would not prevent a future CL access. For the specific abscess being treated, yes, I assume your idea would work.
Absolutely excellent video. I am a new goat owner trying to make sure I am very informed on what to do if something happens with my goats and I found this video to be informative and very well demonstrated. Thank you 🙏 please keep making more
Thank you, Jessica. We appreciate you taking the time to leave us a kind message. We appreciate you watching our videos.
I am very fortunate to have found your videos. Many others have helped in raising sheep, but you are the best!!! You may have no idea how helpful you are. A life saver!
I am always looking forward to view your latest videos!!!
How did you acquire so much knowledge and wisdom?
Many thanks.
Thank you for the kind words and for watching our videos. I grew up working on a sheep farm that raised over 100 head of breeding ewes. I also work in healthcare which helps me to have a strong working knowledge of medications and procedures. Thanks again!
Great video thank you! One of my sheep had an abscess and I wasn't quite sure what to do. This video really helped with clear steps.
Thanks for watching our channel, Jihan!
We dont have CL vaccines in Kenya, however this video is very very detailed , useful and timely. Thanks a lot . Wished i could press the like button multiple times.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for this! Wish there were mkre videos like these for the small livestock holder. Our farm vet is outrageously priced, and if I just knew what to do/give, I could do it myself. So appreciate your help!
You’re very welcome. Thank you for watching!
very clear and concise information with excellent footage on how to lance the lump .
Wow. What a thorough and excellent explanation of this procedure. We have a goat with an abscess on her neck right above her wattle. As a new goat owner, it's like a ticking time bomb. However, your presentation was so calm and matter of fact that I feel a bit less concerned about the situation. Thanks again! Should one expect to be draining abscesses for the rest of the goat's life? Just curious, did the sample come back positive for CL?
We have seen multiple outcomes. Some animas seem to get recurring abscesses but most will get one or 2 and then you won’t see it again. The sample on this goat came back positive. So far as I know, she has never had another.
Amazing! Help! Just this evening, our new buck had an abscess rupture. I had supplies, but no iodine or syringe. I used povidone. In the morning I will check and clean him up again and attempt to clean out his abscess.
Thank you Tim.
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching our videos and for taking the time to leave us a message. Best of luck to you. 👍🏻
Thank you for this video! Helpful as I prepare to do this on one of our goats. You’ve made this feel much less daunting than I was originally feeling about it.
Also, what breed is this goat? I have one almost exactly like her, I was told full boer. But just curious!
She is a boer crossed with an alpine. Thanks for watching and good luck to you!
Thank you for this video! I have a ewe with an access by her mouth (which i assumed was from a thorn or something similar), but then one lymph node at the top of her throat is also slightly swollen (we're talking a very small lump that doesn't stretch the skin). Is that a smoking gun for CL, or a natural sign that her body is fighting infection from the thorn poke? All of the sources but I have read want to cry CL anytime lymph nodes are enlarged, without addressing the fact that these things swell up anytime the body is fighting anything.
It’s difficult to say for sure. She could be having lymph node swelling on that side due to the abscess in her mouth. Lymph nodes are all throughout the body and will usually swell “downstream” from an active infection. This is true with humans as well. CL abscesses are usually very large once they progress and the hair or wool will fall off the abscess as it gets closer to rupturing. Common size of CL abscesses can get around the size of a golf ball. Contents are generally yellow to white in color and the consistency of tooth paste. The contents usually have no odor. If it is CL, don’t be overly discouraged. This is a wide spread issue that effects many farms and has many methods of transmission. Birds, flies, boots, etc are just a few of the ways this can be transmitted besides the obvious problems involved with bringing in infected animals.
the link does not work for the goat vaccine. is this something i can buy or do i have to go through a vet?
There is no longer a goat CL vaccine formulated in the US. Premier1 has been giving advice on how to use the sheep CL vaccine. You can contact their customer service and ask them.
Thank you, I appreciate this video. My sheep has an abscess on the side of her nose, not on it nose itself, but between the cheek and the nose. Can I still do this procedure on her?
Hello and thanks for watching our video. Yes, you can still do this. Just be cautious and take your time. Don’t make any larger incision than necessary.
Thanks for another very informative video. 😃
Hey there! Thank you so much for your very informative video and info. I checked jeffers pet supply but it doesn’t appear that they carry the goat cl vaccine anymore. I’ve checked everywhere without success. Would you possibly know where or who may carry one now?
Unfortunately, the got CL medication has been discontinued. 🫤
We have not used the sheep medication in it’s place so we can’t give you much insight into how this would help.
Great video! Poor goat, I'm sure she feels better now that it's drained. What age can/do you vaccinate sheep and goats for CL?
All of this has recently changed as the manufacture of the goat vaccination has stopped being produced. At this point, there aren’t any clear answers as to what we should do. We are currently working on this issue and should have some answers soon.
@Linessa Farms, it seems many people use the Case-bac in goats as well. Have you looked into this?
I followed the link for the goat vaccine, is it still available somewhere? The link said not found. Great video BTW!
Unfortunately, they have discontinued the vaccine. We need to make an updated video. We are now injecting 10% formalin into the abscess in order to treat it and prevent it from spreading. The sheep vaccine is still available but it is not the same and supposedly will not work for goats. We will have a new video coming out soon.
I know this is a quite old video, but I am curious if the sample showed CL or not
Great job explaining and showing the entire procedure!
I have a question about my Sheep that I was wondering if you have any ideas about... Do you know of anything that could cause a ewe to itch off their skin between their horn and their eye? We have one ewe that does not have lice, mites, has been dewormed, is in good body condition and every summer itches under her horns until it is raw. She is the only one in the herd that is affected. She leaves it alone all fall/winter, but come summer she always itches it until it is raw for multiple months. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
Hello. There are a few different issues which may be going on. More than likely, it is some time of fungal infection in that area. Try to wash her off well and treat her with an anti fungal spray every day for a week.
Što će biti sada sa ovom kozom?moželi se još koristiti za mlijeko ili meso ?
Hvala
Great video my friend you are the man ! Thank you god bless you and your family !
Thanks, Juan! Best wishes for you this New Year. 😬
We just have a few goats, and I have been looking for the vaccine for CL but have not been able to find any. Texas Vet Labs(now Bimeda Biologicals), no longer makes theirs unless it is herd specific and you must purchase 100 vials. Also tried to find the Colorado Serums to no avail. So is there any other option for vaccinating.
Unfortunately, no. Many people have started using formalin injections into CL abscesses. You need to be very sure you are dealing with CL prior to injecting formalin though.
Thank you. That is what I came here to see. Also about the smell. One extension article said cl has a strong smell. Every other article I found said it has no smell.
I have not had CL in my herd, knock on wood. I had a scare recently though. It was in an area most likely to be a saliva duct infection or a thorn in his cheek. It ruptured on its own. The contents were liquid, grey and smelled awful even without getting very close to it. I cleaned it the best I could without help, sprayed it with blukote and screw worm spray, and gave him LA 200. Continuing the LA 200. He has been isolated since this happened. No goat vets in my area who actually reply, show up or know goats well. I'll look for the sample swab you showed us just in case and vaccinate the herd if it is CL. I don't think so after seeing what the cheesy goo actually looks like. Thank you.
Hello. Some will argue with me on this but you can generally have a 90% accuracy with a consistency and smell check. I’ve been dealing with CL on multiple farms for about 10 years and helping people limit and treat it. Historically, I can tell you samples I have sent in that came back positive had zero smell and very thick, off-white to yellow color. The first thing I usually check is the smell. If it smells, it’s almost always NOT CL. Specific bacteria have a certain smell. CL has none. In healthcare (unfortunately) you start to develop a nose for these things. Although, not scientific, I can tell you that I can tell with a certain degree of accuracy if I’m dealing with staph, CL, ecoli, a GI bleed, etc by simply smelling. The only real way to know is through sampling/lab.
Unfortunately, the lab that was making the CL vaccine for goats has stopped and at this time there is no acceptable replacement. The sheep vaccine cannot be used for goats effectively. We have been treating abscesses with buffered formalin solution just prior to rupture with good results and antibiotics as you are already doing. In your case, I would assume you have a general abscess. Keep us posted.
@@LinessaFarms thank you for the info. I am slightly calmer now and hoping statistics are on my side, and his dirty sock mixed with dirty dishes smelling liquid was a run of the mill infected thorn poke. I have a sample packaged to send off for testing to make sure. I'm disappointed to read that the vaccine is out of production. I'll keep an eye out for it to become available. Hopefully it is not an urgent matter of protecting my herd from an infection that found its way here.
Do you ever advise shaving the area before incision and work?
Yes. If the area is very hairy or wool covered, it would help to shave the area first. Many abscesses will lose hair on the affected area so you will have to see what you’re dealing with. Good question. Thank you!
Great video thank you for your detailed presentation.. where can the kits be purchased at ?
Hello! Most of what we used can be purchased right on Amazon. Any numbing medication like lidocaine will have to come from your local farm vet.
I just tested a sheep abscess. I am glad it was negative. However, the vet said don't worry it 's not zoonotic, but that is not my understanding. Maybe she means it does not present in the same manner in humans. But I am glad we tested it. We haven't done any blood tests though, just the external abscess we saw.
This was a great video! I have a doe is has it and I need to lance it.
Can you please list out each product you used with details as well as where you bought it? I heard you say you can only get lidocaine from the Vet but I am still fairly new to goats. The details would be very helpful. Thanks!
Hello Kim. You can pick up everything you need from any major farm store. We used a scalpel for the incision and injected the area with a 50/50 mix of hydrogen peroxide and iodine once done. The cup I am holding is just a generic plastic measuring cup. I would advise picking up your needles, syringes, and scalpels at tractor supply or any other large farm store. You can pick up the other supplies more cost effectively at Walmart. Thanks for watching our videos and for the feedback.
good one, thank you. on another note what minerals do you give your sheep? I know salt but what do you put in with it? thanks again and keep up the good work
We like to use a free choice mineral specifically made for sheep or goats. We offer the mineral and sodium bicarbonate. We have a video coming out soon. 👍🏻
@@LinessaFarms make it soon please, I have my sheep coming soon
This was a great video. I watched it a while back and am revisiting to ask a question about the vaccine. Can you give the initial two doses to pregnant does? I believe mine are about 6-8 weeks bred. I know you likely give the booster to does 30 days prior to kidding but that’s a single dose and much later in gestation than we are now. I’d like to vax asap so we can let them out on pasture that may be infected by goats we are culling later in the fall who have had abscesses (culls for more reasons than possible CL abscesses).
Hello! They have discontinued the goat vaccine and it is no longer available. We have wanted to make a video on this but we don’t have any animals with CL, which makes it difficult. MANY producers are now injecting CL abscesses with 10% buffered formalin. This kills everything in the abscess capsule without harming the animal. I will attach a link to an article on this below. I would not advise the CL vaccine for sheep (still in existence and won’t work for goats) to a pregnant ewe. We’ve heard of too many side effects.
www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/caseouslymphadea.html
I would recommend shaving around where you plan to make the ìncision. It makes it easier to see what you're doing. It helps to keep it from reinfectìng. Cleans the area well with soap and water, the with iodine. As thick as the puss was, I would stick my finger in the hole to break the wall on any hidden pockets of infection. I would then flush it with dilute iodine. Check to see if their is a sack wall and try to remove it. I once treated a colt that had survived a Cougar attack. We removed a broken claw from the wound. I'm not a Vet, just an oĺd Cowboy.
Can we use the sheep vaccine, no more goat vaccine available. And is there a milk withdrawal with CL/vaccine
I have heard conflicting information on this. Contact premier1 and ask their vet about proper protocol.
What is the brand of goat vaccine? I can find the sheep one easy, but the goat one is not coming up for anything. Just had one of my sheep with a positive diagnosis and want to help prevent this in the rest of our animals. Thanks.
I sent you an email.
Veterinarian charged me almost $300 and did not even drain abscess. Most vets are very ignorant about small ruminants.
Another great video ! Do you give hands on classes? You should , your a good teacher :)
We offer limited courses at the farm. Our next class will be on shearing and will be held in the spring of 2022. 😬
@@LinessaFarms I will be moving to the farm around that time.. if settled I would love to attend :)
Can they be vaccinated after they’re already showing abscesses? Also can it be cured in a human if a human gets it?
Thank you for the great question and thank you for watching our channel. If you have infected animals on your farm, you should vaccinate all (infected and non-infected). There are 2 exceptions and those are pregnant/lactating does and kids under the age of 5 months. The vaccine will help prevent the spread of the disease in your flock and will also help lessen symptoms and abscesses in your already infected animals.
People can get CL and there are limited studies to reference. A clinical paper published in 1997 lists approximately 12 individuals and treatment. This appears to be a fairly rare phenomenon. Working in surgery and healthcare for many years, I can tell you I have never seen or heard of a case occurring. However…. Most infections could be expected to occur in the arms or hands and clinical signs would more than likely manifest in the axillary (armpit) lymph nodes. Treatment would be removal of infected nodes and antibiotic treatment. One could expect to be on long term antibiotic treatment and depending on medication regiment, central line/PICC line placement might be warranted (specifically for long term antibiotics such as Vancomycin). You could also expect patients to need CT imaging and ultrasound imaging as well as various bloodwork to confirm diagnosis. More than likely this would all involve your primary care provider, a general surgeon, and more than likely an infectious disease specialist…. So yeah, don’t get CL. On the bright side, if you wear gloves and practice proper hygiene, your risks are more than likely very low. Hope this helps answer your question.
@@LinessaFarms yes that helps. One of my goats sneezed in my face. I don’t know if she has it or not I’m just learning about this and a bit nervous of it all.
You would need to have pus from an active lesion get into your blood more than likely.
@@LinessaFarms ok thank you, I appreciate your responding. I hope you’re right :)
Can you give vaccine to pregnant goats?
In many cases, yes. When it comes to CDT, you should. What vaccine are you specifically asking about?
Since they no longer make the goat specific vaccine what do you use to vaccinate your goat herd? And at what dosage?
It is the same as the sheep vaccine at 1/2 the dose listed based on what I have been told. This is all second hand information I need to research. I will post something about this soon.
Why does the CL vaccine for goats seem to be out of stock everywhere?
Hello, Kyle. Thanks for watching our videos and thanks for the question. The vaccine for goats has been discontinued and most producers are now using the sheep vaccine off label. I have not yet done this but I am being told the sheep vaccine is to be given at 1/2 recommended dose to the goat.
Thanks for the video. Very instructional!!! You mentioned to irrigate the cyst area with hydrogen peroxide, then you actually used Iodine. What type of Iodine solution did you use?
Thanks
Hello! We use a 7.5% iodine solution. The irrigation you saw me use for the procedure is a 50/50 mix of iodine and hydrogen peroxide. Hopefully this helps. If you have any other questions, let us know. Thank you!
Tim
@@LinessaFarms Thank you very much!
Excellent tutorial
Thank you for the kind words and for watching our videos!
Outstanding video and info. Thank you so much.
Thank you! We appreciate you taking the time to leave us a nice message.
Should you vaccinate if you have never tested? What if you animal already has it then would it be beneficial to vaccinate the animal.
This is a complex question. Some people will refrain from testing because they don’t want the animals to test positive for CL. I think that’s a little silly but not really my business. Evidence supports vaccination even if they have had it and reportedly helps prevent future abscesses. More recently since this video has been posted, many veterinarians have moved to either injecting the abscess with buffered formalin or even more recently, injecting the abscess with Draxxin and also treating the animal with Draxxin as well. This has shown to prevent contamination and help prevent future outbreaks.
@@LinessaFarms ok good to know
Thank you
Hoo yah green feet
Now that there is no vaccine for CL in goats what is the alternative ?
Many of the producers have switched to injecting mature abscess with 10% buffered formalin. This kills the bacteria and significantly diminishes risk of contamination.
very informative!! Thx this helps out a lot!!
Thanks for the kind words, George. We appreciate you watching our videos.
If my dairy goat has CL is it safe to still drink the milk and use in goat soap? I'm unsure if she has it or not she has hard egg shaped bump in between her jaw bones under her chin around her thyroid that I can move around under the skin? Thank you!
Merck Vet Manual says no. Since there can be CL abscesses internally, there is an assurance you will not put yourself in a dangerous position. Kids should be considered at increased risk as well. The only way to know for sure is to take a sample of the pus from the abscess and get it checked. With all this being said, is there any way this is her thyroid and is a goiter. If this is a goiter due to iodine deficiency, you can simply paint the bottom side of her tail with iodine for about 4 days and it will go away.
Did you vaccinate the goat after the treatment? If so, how soon? We had a suspected CL on an 8 mo old doeling lanced at the vet clinic on Monday. I have irrigated it twice since then (it isnt draining well) but she is currently the only goat here. Can I spray pens and ground with a bleach solution and bring other does in at some point? She was here with 2 market wethers (who showed no signs--they were all 3 4H projects) which we sold at the county fair end of July. She's been the only one here since then. Daughter loves her and wants to breed her in the future but if she can only be a pet, that's fine too.
Hello, Lynne and thanks for the question. This question comes up often and causes a lot of stress around the farm. Not so long ago, there was an often knee-jerk reaction to cull livestock suffering from CL. It was thought (incorrectly) that we could simply eradicate the disease through control and elimination measures. It is known now that CL is much harder to control than previously thought and many studies show it can be transmitted by horse flies, shearing, etc… most of us in the business will tell you, if you haven’t experienced it yet, you will. I don’t get excited about CL like I used to, especially since the vaccine is extremely effective. All of our goats are vaccinated as soon as possible. In the case of the goat from the video, she was vaccinated and all goats on her parent farm will be vaccinated as well. Both infected and non-infected goats should be vaccinated. The infected goats will show less (if any) symptoms again and this will prevent you from infecting other healthy goats as well. In your case, you will just want to vaccinate any new members to your flock. Your goat should have a buddy and I’m sure you will eventually get her one. The “downside” according to some people is, all your goats will test positive for CL antibodies after they have been vaccinated. My response to this is, so what? The alternative is to let them get infected. People are worried people will think they have CL if the blood test comes back positive. Over time, people will get over this. If you sell any goats, just let everyone know your goats are vaccinated. Most major producers are already adding the CL vaccine to their regiment and in short order it will be as common as CDT. So, long answer to your question, buy yourself some vaccine. Vaccinate the doe you have and any new goats you get. You can absolutely keep her and you should. Hope this helps. Thanks!
Tim
You can vaccinate her as soon as you can get the vaccine. The goat in the video was vaccinated the next day.
@@LinessaFarms Can you tell me which vaccine you recommend? It looks quite affordable but I see there are several on the market now.
There is a link in the video description that will take you to Jeffer’s for the goat vaccine. 👍🏻
But the goat vaccine has been discontinued. What do we do now?
Can you vaccinate a goat that has CL in their system to help them fight infection in the future?
Hello, Brian. Yes. If you have infected goats or sheep the vaccine helps to prevent future outbreaks. It is not curative, however it has shown to decrease symptoms significantly.
Is there anyway to wash or disinfect with a certain solution that will kill CL on the ground or around the barn for future infection
Hello, Brian. Any antiseptic solution such as chlorahexadine should help with hard surfaces although it is difficult to eliminate completely.
My goat has 2 bumps right above his nostrils what could they be?? There soft yet he's not eating
Could be damage from stickers or sharp objects while grazing. Depending on your location, it could also be botflies. If you are seeing hair loss around the nose and ears, you may want to consider treatment for mange mites as well. We like to use Dectomax.
Can the abscess be between the front legs?
Abscesses are infections and can happen anywhere. CL abscesses are in the lymph nodes and would not present themselves in this location.
Since cl is zoonotic then don't you think you shouldn't be telling people to cut the abscesses? Especially since the abscess is an easy way to catch it yourself if you happen to have a small cut or rub your nose or eyes? Why does it seem like you don't worry about any of this? There any additional info you have that's more reassuring? Can it be easily cured if you catch it or only treated? Thanks in advance for any info you can provide
As stated in the video, if you are not comfortable with performing the procedure, you should not. There are lots of considerations to make when doing this and there are lots of different methods. I will do my best to answer your questions.
1. It is zoonotic. This is why we mention multiple times to wear gloves, practice good hygiene, be cautious with sharp objects, and make sure to clean the site as well as possible. There are a lot of zoonotic diseases with sheep and goats that can make you very sick. These include but are not limited to ecoli, toxoplasmosis, orf, chlamydia, parasites, and others. The best I can tell you is to be responsible. Don’t rub your face with dirty hands, etc. this is good advice anytime you are handling animals at all. If I don’t seem concerned, it’s because I know what I’m doing and I’m not nervous or afraid. I also work in healthcare and perform surgical procedures on people. This is probably part of what you’re seeing as well. I think if you aren’t comfortable, just don’t do it. It’s not worth hurting yourself or the animal.
We are simply showing people how to gather a sample of an abscess so they can get it tested. I have never heard of anyone catching this disease but I can speculate if you were to catch this, it would require diagnosis (more than likely through blood cultures, sampling of a lymph node, and more), and long term antibiotic therapy which may or may not involve long term IV antibiotics. I don’t know what kind of antibiotics this specific strain of bacteria is most susceptible to so it is difficult to say what specific medication administration would take place. I will answer your other questions as well. Check out your other comment to see them.
@@LinessaFarms thanks for the thorough info, it's definitely appreciated
@@jackle842000 you’re welcome. Have a great holiday season. Thanks for watching our videos. 👍🏻😬🎅🏻
@@LinessaFarms you too! Thanks again for the info
@@LinessaFarms You too! Thanks again for the info! Now, off to see what happens if it's caught. Always worried me tremendously that a drop of saliva, sneeze in the face, or anything like that can transmit many of these diseases.
Can dogs get this?
Dogs can get abscesses but cannot catch CL from a sheep or goat (so far as I am aware).
They're both the same vaccine. Corynebacterium Pseudotuberculosis Bacterin-Toxoid just different dosages.
You are correct. At the time, one was “labeled” for use for goats. We try (although not always possible) not to advise drugs that are off label but now that they stopped the sale of approved goat drug, we will just be using the sheep one for all of our goats and sheep. As you probably know, many of the drugs are off label for sheep and goats for everything from worming to antibiotics. It’s tough to advise drugs without getting dinged. Thanks for watching our videos and thanks for taking the time to leave a helpful comment. We appreciate it!
Calfs with infection in navel area, not ruptured but infected, we use iodine tablets, small incision slide tablets into hole turn it sideways so it doesn't fall out. It sets it on fire for a little bit but it cleans all of the infection out, works great for navels. Don't you think it would work for cl after draining it. You know grandma must have been a doctor, damn she put iodine on ever cut and scrape, lord help you if you had a big skinned place.
As you saw in the video, we flush it with an iodine solution. As far as “curing it” no. CL is an infection within the body. It would kill what’s in the specific abscess but would not prevent a future CL access. For the specific abscess being treated, yes, I assume your idea would work.
Why didn't you mention that CL will cause the doe to abort?