My tip for layout design is simple. Crack on and build something. I have multiple friends who never get started because they can't finalise their track plan. I've learnt that you won't get it right first time so get it built knowing that you will problem be ripping it up at some point so don't agonise over it.
Excellent advice 👍 Although I do love a good stare before I start. My girlfriend thinks I'm crazy, but I just have to stand and look at a problem for at least 20 minutes before I can do anything.
@@LittleWicketRailway we refer to the procrastination you speak of as “beard stroking.” Spreading too long thinking about it while subconsciously moving ones hand down the chin.
Hi from Aotearoa New Zealand. I'm a bit late to the party as this video is 18 months old, but look to start my own layout as a retirement project. I bought a second hand dismantled N gauge layout, and quite a bit of used rolling stock to start with while I get a feel for it all. Thank you for your comments on AnyRail and Scarm as I've downloaded the trial versions of each and have started trying to compare them. I guess the secret would be to design a reasonable layout the same in each and see how they compare. Anyway, thanks for the interesting observations and low-key 'British' presentation. 🚂
Yup, dropped my double track layout in favour of a single track / loop / run through connecting my 4 modules, each one it's own unique miniature layout with shunting potential. Takes approximately 20-35 to PROPERLY shunt just one of the sidings if done at prototypical speeds, manual coupling and allowing time for the crew to switch points and hook things up. For this I tend to allow 30-50 seconds when coupling or uncoupling a wagon. And between 15-20 seconds when switching tracks down points. As you say, it's about what you enjoy mate!
@@LittleWicketRailway RUclips is your friend, my friend. I find it so theroputic shunting trains about, but you do really need clean track and wheels for the slow speed movements required otherwise it's just over far too quickly... My locos have stay alives fitted so slow speed running just isn't an issue anymore thankfully!
Thanks for sharing. I can totally relate that it is easy to get carried away putting more track down just because the room is there when really the answer is less, not more. I too have used the Anyrail software and it was very useful in the early days as I iterated on my design ideas. I would recommend it for anyone thinking of anything bigger than a table top layout. The ability to work in layers and turn the visibility on and and off as needed is very handy. (room outline, frame work, track plan (in several zones) and even wire runs are some of my different layers for example).
I am revisiing this now and agree with you. Less track is better. In real railways, to keep costs down, the rule is minimum track to get the job done. You are absolutely right. It starts looking cluttered and you end up with unused areas if you have too much track for the space.
I have found with track building (as with other things in life) failure/doing something wrong is not a bad thing its just part of the learning curve and the fear of failing/making mistakes shouldn't stop you starting to get you laying down track.
I'm waiting to get my TT120 train set to get myself started with this hobby. I've been playing around with layouts in Anyrail and have lots of plans. Your layout looks great and has given me some good ideas and I take on board your comments and advice. Like you my layout will be in an urban environment and I need some ideas about how to fill the centre area of the track. Many other layouts are easy to fill where its just fields and hills with a few sheep. Thanks.
Realy like your videos and you gave everyone a very god advice "Think about what you enjoy", that is the most important thing about building a model railway. Super!
Space is very much the final frontier. I am still in the design stage of my layout and I would encourage anyone at that point in the process to use AnyRail. It is easy to learn and allows the user to evolve their first designs - it even provides lists of track used so that the user can cost out their designs. Your layout looks great and brings you joy which in the end is the whole point of model railways. I sense, though, one day, you'll rip it all out and start again.
I agree with the view that you have to build a layout before you know what you actually enjoy, and what works well in the space available. I've been tinkering with my layout for years, eliminating problems where derailments occur - thankfully most were in places where track wasn't ballasted. Hidden track is still a pain - I have curves beneath a town scene. In theory I can lift off the town to clean the track below, and sort out any derailments there, but in practice it is such a faff that I avoid it if at all possible.
A very entertaining video and I agree with you that watching the trains go by is rewarding for me. You should run what you like and enjoy seeing. I have lifted the outdoor part of my layout because like you I overdid all the track as you said less is best.
As much as I like Hornby range of locos and rolling stock peco streamline points and flex track are the way to go if you want trains moving around at pleasing angles. The peco turntable is also great. I recently replaced my old Hornby one and absolutely love it.
Great summary. Yes I think you really need to operate a layout for some time before you get into the scenic. I found my passing loops were all too short and have rebuilt sections already after 6 months, pulling out scenery and ballast etc.
Thanks Peter. That's the other thing, the length of the passing loops are fine for the trains I had originally, but now I want to run longer trains. I've got the FM Rail Blue Pullman with the class 47 and 6 coaches and a couple of 6 car HSTs that don't come close to fitting.
Almost frustrating that you almost need to operate a layout before you decide what you want on a layout as a lot of work can go into a section that doesn't work so well. I'm really keen to avoid roundy-roundy, yet I find end to end layouts dull (though automation and block detection would change that I think). For me, 90% of the enjoyment is building the thing, Electronics, carpentry, design, and a heap of problem solving alone in my shed with a podcast. Great video as usual.
I like a lot of people's comments here: the expressions of discovering what they actually like about a layout (if even a layout) rather than thinking what they should be liking about a layout. I've started to be very tolerant of the plastic based track systems (Kato, Roco, Marklin C etc) for exactly that reason you've expressed; operating a layout learning what bits actually interest you and reworking lots of layout as a result
Totally agree with this 👍 I think those outside the hobby just see us playing with trains and wonder how that can be fun, but for me it's all the other elements like the electronics, creativity, history, capentry, etc. that makes this hobby entertaining. There really is something for everybody.
What a great layout. You're very lucky and have worked very hard. Isn't it sad that we don't SEE the issues until after it's built? LOL! I'm in the process of creating a small N scale and I don't like shunting either. I just want a couple of trains on two tracks to travel around the layout, one a passenger train and the other a freight. Either could be swapped with a logging or coal trail or even the circus train when it rolls through. But what I like is seeing them go around and around my little town in opposite directions, passing at the bridge. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for sharing, nice layout,Kudos ,and applause.at 602 you mention track problem, I see possibility's. use the 3 tracks as a yard to make up trains, while avoiding mainline trains,...interesting challenge.it has now become a space for one operator....success is getting what you want...happiness is enjoying what you have...carry on.
for the space you have thats actually not a bad track plan, my thanks for the video, especially showing the thinking behind it. very nice to see the idea of "let a few trains run" while you fiddle with something else. Obvious compromise on train length but the flip side is you get more trains and lets face it, the "real thing" is 10-12 coaches anyway so does 2, 3 or 4 in model form really matter? agree on shunting being somewhat tedious, let trains run and concentrate on that, shutning to be for setting up trains. seriously nice to see you have thought of something way too many 'suggested' track plans lack, _how it will operate_, and where to put excess trains - you see a lot of twin track with a few sidings but when you look closer really only space for two or maybe three trains, you have space for loads :) those Hornby curved points are a nightmare, problem seems to be the check rails being non-functional so stuff hits the common crossing in the middle and jumps the track - the PECO ones are better (slightly), Hornby points are just terrible generally - you do what you can with them and when you have them they are too expensive to throw away.. (normal track is fine). overall its actually a really nice layout, a bit crowded? maybe but with the space you have anything beyond a few loops and a single station will be, the hill actually breaks it up nicely do agree on that awful looking turn table though, pity its about the only ready to roll one at a less than 'new mortgage' price that will sit on top of a base board thumbs up from me, key bit being it looks fun
Thanks Dale. Everything is always going to be a compromised with this hobby unless you've got endless resources. Why are the turntables so expensive!?! I did consider making one with a lazy susan and a stepper motor.
My layouts so far have been created using the track that I have available rather than a track plan. This is made easier using set track as you say. Space is always an issue especially for Island tye layouts. Planning your township along with your track layout is definitely good advice so you end up with something that you're happy with. Have a look at my 5 build layout build and B12 Running Session videos if you have time. Happy Modelling Mon.
Nice video - good to hear what you would do differently next time. Over the winter, I built my first n gauge layout - I can see similarities with this one. I also planned in advance using Any Rail which was great for identifying what track I needed to buy. I too found curved points (PECO) to be a problem as well as a diamond crossing. I also found that having a track too close to the edge of the board dangerous as a derailed train might leap onto the floor! So I tweaked my design, simplifying it to remove the problem areas and found 0-6-0 locos were better at staying on the tracks since there are less small wheels. The end result was a less complex track layout, but probably more realistic since there was more space for scenery. Less is definitely more.
Thanks Gavin 👍 Touch wood I've only had a single nose diving loco and that was before I put boards round the edge of the layout, although that's also something I'd change since they're a bit too high.
Great analysis. I think like you, I have evolved my layout rather than planned it, but learning from my mistakes has actually been fun. I particularly like your videos on control and automation. You give instructions clearly and know your stuff. I now use JMRI because of your direction and teaching. You have a great talent for explaining complex things simply in a very listenable manner. Very impressive. Thank you for all the advice, keep those videos coming. Can you do one on lighting please including simulated arc welding, level crossings and station and building lighting.
Thanks, I really appreciate that. I've not put much lighting onto this layout, but if I rebuild then it's something that I'd like to do. Check out the last video I did on CMRI where you can control outputs on the Ardunio and use relays to turn lighting on and off, this might be of interest.
I can see where your expectations were with your description, but where the layout went in the direction when all was said and done. For a small line i would nix the turntable and extend the station siding, also since you like running trains more than shunting and switching, I would recommend you go to a "folded dogbone" layout that way you can have a mainline that is continuous, a fiddle yard of three tracks is still a good idea as you get more rolling stock and engines, it can be troublesome putting in and taking out trains you want on your layout at a given moment 👍💪🚃🚋🚎🚞
Easy fix to reduce the turntable noise and also slow it down- install a small resistor in line with the power feed to the turntable motor. I used a 30ohm one I think or thereabouts and it is a great improvement for very little effort....
what an intelligent analysis. it's funny, it's not so much about the pros and cons of your layout design, it's just as much about your journey of discovering what actually interests you. lots of folk like shunting, but it's interesting (even on RUclips) how many are very content aimlessly shuffling wagons about whilst being derisive of trains going round a continuous oval. I've seen very "unrealistic" tinplate track designs of the 1910's and '20's being intelligently used as planned and can be more satisfying and realistically used than a high detailed layout of today. it's breaking down what you want out of it, and how you utilise it. I think it's a little annoying the derogatory "toy train" connotations that the ready ballasted track (e.g Kato unitrack, marklin c, tillig bettungsgleis, Roco etc) has. yes, but as you've inferred: happy with layout, but want to do a few track changes and quite often ballasted track ain't coming up in the same state as when it went down. Extremely wary of turntables: great action, cool thing, however they inevitably seem to take up an inordinate amount of space and due to this end up being a focal point of one's layout, due to unfortunately being larger than your main station. great work, really enjoy your channel
Thanks. I think I'd enjoy shunting if I understood it a bit more and gave it more of a purpose e.g. these wagons need to go there for a reason. Also, the little shunters were a bit fussy over point work (now mostly fixed with stay alives) and all the manually uncoupling meant the hand of god was coming into play a lot. A main aim on the layout was automation and automated shunting is probably one of the biggest challenges out there. I feel a side project coming on, a fully automated shunting puzzle. Regarding the turntable, you're definitely right about it being an unwanted focal point. The Harborne turntable (before they got rid of it) was actually really small, but I had the Hornby version so figured I'd use that, plus it fits the bigger locos.
@@LittleWicketRailway some of the US folk have these switching layouts really sorted (something like RUclips's 15th street layout) BUT they are huge garage sized things: a modern 2 freight car unit being about 10 4 wheelers long. you don't see many Coronation Scot Expresses rolling through. some steam era ones are a bit more seemly in the size department but again they're big. and they serve industries which means large buildings even if just false fronts. yes there's 6' long layouts and these are again solely for shunting some wagons in and out. which can be great, but it's not for everyone. I think you were well on the right track with your inglenook sidings puzzle on top there. I feel though that a) if it was located more at the front of the layout it's more available to be hands on and close up which is a lot of the pleasure in shunting, where it is it's just a little buried... and b) it was a puzzle. which solely exists as a puzzle and not for any purposeful shunting. say you've got a distillery: what does a distillery need? sugar? packaging? hops? all different wagons: how is the finished product transported? is it all going to the same place or do you need different wagons of the same species because they're going different ways throughout the day? you get the idea. an automated shunting puzzle works because it is a complete whole, saw first this done in the sixties and it was exactly as you describe: it's purpose wasn't for shunting wagons, it was an automated puzzle, wagons just happened to be the medium.
I've started my first ever layout (N-Scale) and one of the biggest mistakes I made was making it too complex! I think for a first layout I should have scaled it back - as there are so many little issues you run into that you can't plan for. When it comes to my second (which wont be for some time) there are many things I would do differently - but this is how you learn! Either way, i'm still enjoying it!
Every layout is a learning project, of which nearly all of us will want something else or changes later. I love sitting with pen and paper, have different results Every day.
I don't have time Space and money at present to do a layout however in future I would like to. I live vicariously through youtubers and I've been crafting a file of my wants in a future layout so that is good.
Hi, I know this is a bit late but I have been considering what I would do. So for help with coming into the station from the right S curves caused by the points one the main lines . That would be the best place to try and use your curved points. You could also move the points slightly further away from the station. As they would now be infront of the cross over points this would mean that you do not need the other set of cross over points on the right hand side of Little Wicket station. As you can now move the middle platform across a little you could put a right hand point where the left hand one was on the outside main line joining upto a left hand point put where the half curve is coming from the storage sidings to the outside track. This would mean that the 2 remaining storage sidings now have direct access to the main lines. I would also loose one of the storage siding closest to the curved points and use the extra space to change the curved points to standard points. And yes get rid of the turntable. If you really want a decent turntable go for the Flieschmann one. It is a great turntable but it has 2 drawbacks. One you have to cut a bloody big hole in your baseboard and the cost. It is about £450-£500. So the sensable option would be to put a return loop inplace of the turntable.
Just discovered your channel, great video explaining the good and bad points about your layout. I am literally going through the same process with my N gauge layout Westmorland but I am actually now changing the things that I can. Cheers Gary
You’re a Birmingham? Me too.. into Canada in 1951! Nice channel! I’m an old guy as you can guess from my entry into Canada. Keep up the good work. Love trains. Work in HO and N. And have fun with electronics.
Hi Rob, just liked and subbed, don't worry about seeing things you would have done differently, I've been railway modelling for donkeys years, and I still make mistakes, mostly because I didn't plan it properly, we are all just human, I suppose, anyway, thank you for putting up an inspiring video, stay safe, all the best from Scotland, Stephen.
If you have Train Simulator, it has a very powerful editor that you can build a real life sized 3d layout and use the 2d map to get a track plan layout and means you can literally put in every tree, lay out grass or even using Google maps import in real life into TS and all you have to do is bring the real life scale down to 4mm scale.
I do have Train Simulator and I never knew this was possible! Do you know of any good tutorials on how to go about it? (I'm terrible at Train Sim, never stop where I'm meant to at the platform)
Very useful layout analysis, I am sure I am making so many mistakes but just ploughing on for now, so much to learn but every aspect is a challenge and good fun. Cheers :)
Hello from the US! I have been enjoying your tutorials. Dcc++ and dcc++EX are still a little puzzling to me. Just starting out. By the time I have the layout done, I would like to to have it fully automated for open houses.
6:18 I had similar problems with Hornby curved points - great space-savers, but the track gauge appears to be problematic and they have a very long insulated frog. I replaced them with Peco and had no problems since.
Not to bad of a layout. With my track planning, especially with the new layout I'm about to build, one type of track I'm avoiding to use as much as possible. The Curved points. with many of my rolling stock and engines, they just don't like them, had to many derailments on them in the past. I normally use Peco track too.
Nice video! You've done a good job with the layout still! Do you think you could show us what in your stock can actually handle first radius curves? It's not something I can find much information on. I have a hidden reverse loop on my layout but as it is hidden, I'm more concerned about what can run over it without derailing rather than how bad it looks. Cheers!
Great to learn more about Little Wicket, some good tips in there like making the switch from SCARM to Anyrail. I tried to incorporate the inglenook into my layout too but it does take up a lot of space, do you think it would’ve worked better without the engine shed? Looking forward to seeing what you do next!
Thanks Joe. To me having the engine shed was more important that the puzzle because I wanted to keep a loco up there permanently. The shed does get in the way of the puzzle though.
Hi Rob, I am curious about the Hollister hoodie that you are wearing. We used to go to the off-road park in Hollister when we lived in San Jose as a practice with our ZR2 before going off in the wilds.
Hi Nigel, it's a just a really old hoodie that I've recently discovered again, sadly no links to Hollister the place. It's from the Hollister shop in Birmingham where the lights are barely on, they pumped in a fragrence and the staff uniform appears to be swimwear for some of the year.
I really like what you have done!!!! Very detailed and many trains running, but as you said, it is the person running it to decide what works for them. I have 2 outer loops that the inner loop turns in to a figure 8 for reversing. All single level, and multi level would be better. I am on a 4x8 as i call it my Covid-HO ... while all my O are away as I want to move but house prices are horrid. I am learning DCC++-EX, arduino controlled relays, etc... so im learning and not much on the scene as I want to run trains. I am going to have a look at your setup again as I like how you have many trains. I dont think I heard it, but what is the layout size?
Really helpful video. Thank you. I’m at the very early stages of planning so really helps. Would you still recommend Anyrail? I only have a Mac unfortunately so would have to run it in an emulator.
As a new sub to your site I’m enjoying the philosophy behind your layout and the honesty of any mistakes made 👍 Watching others who have been building layouts for eons they always seem to be tearing parts out of their layouts and starting over......then repeat again every so many years. So you’re not alone with wanting changes and perhaps that’s the way it is with playing the trains game? 🤔 Whatever you do m8 it’ll look good 😎 All the best. JohnE
it'd be a godsend if hornby would upgrade their standard points with 3rd or 4th radius curves, no more use of the 2nd radius points. have had so many derailments with them i've lost count to be honest.
I had to spend quite a bit of time carefully filing the plastic which was the main area that was causing derailments. I shouldn't really have so many facing points really though, asking for trouble.
This is a really good set idea design. I recently just bought the station terminus for my slowly growing layout but there is a problem. With the station I am trying to turn into four platforms to run four trains, two to stop and two to run. But every time I try and connect the track it is either too short or too long and not able to connect. The points I am using are points I had before and points from train packs I am thinking about following your track plan for the station but can you please tell me what you think?
That's a great layout for a 8 x 4, I would love to use that if I may. Can I ask what track you used, and is there possibly a layout with the track part numbers available online somewhere? Thanks
What size did your baseboard end up being. I’m currently designing my 00 gauge layout and not sure what size to go for. I prefer continuous running to shunting though.
Its a great first draft! Will you make those changes? Or starting a new one? I'm keen to operate mine before doing the scenics to try and find the quirks! (Not fully wired yet)
I think it's a nice layout, man. :) What made you decide to only use standard points rather than express points? Running long wheel base locos and rolling stock over the regular points causes a lot of overhang which isn't realistic looking but I find express points tend to screw up the geometry of your tracks and it can only be resolved by using flexi-track.
Hi J! Partly because I had a lot of standard points from train sets and at the time I wasn't really aware that anything else was available, plus as you've said they're good for geometry and save quite a bit of space. I'm not sure how much longer an express point is compared with a standard point, but it might have knocked a few inches off the platforms.
Hi, I was wondering if you would share the anyrail file, as i would like to have a closer look and use little wicket railway to give me some inspiration for mine. Thank you!
Did anyone ever tell you, that your voice and narrative style is nearly identical to that of Big Car - also one of my favourite channels; had to do a double take 😂 Great Video, and lovely railway; I like it 🤗
I'm curious why you say you'll change it in your next layout... There's nothing that says you can't redo the layout you have. Layouts are made to be changed! It's the fun of the hobby I think!
Hi William! We moved house and I had to take it apart. I've got the opportunity to rebuild now, so that's why I'm saying next layout. Totally agree that making changes/improvement as you go is part of the fun, although some of these were pretty fundamental.
I have enjoyed this video, so much so that I have tried to copy it using Anyrail, with peco, track code 100. Is there away you can help me to do this ? I don't have the full verson of Anyrail.
I think it looks good but one opinion is not rule ,I'm currently stuck with mine being just 10 by 4 I've the 2 continuse loops but I dont like it am thinking pulling it all back up as no ballist but I've literally no idea on a track plan
Keep sidings parallel to the main track, lots of wasted space in the central area which could be used for a town with buses/ trams, shops, a mall, car parks, open park space, a canal wharf, the list is endless...
Rob ....... please take a very hard look at your layout. Please write down all the mistakes that you made on your layout. Then you redesign a new layout with half as much track . In the meantime so down and enjoy what you have 😄
My tip for layout design is simple. Crack on and build something. I have multiple friends who never get started because they can't finalise their track plan. I've learnt that you won't get it right first time so get it built knowing that you will problem be ripping it up at some point so don't agonise over it.
Excellent advice 👍 Although I do love a good stare before I start. My girlfriend thinks I'm crazy, but I just have to stand and look at a problem for at least 20 minutes before I can do anything.
@@LittleWicketRailway we refer to the procrastination you speak of as “beard stroking.” Spreading too long thinking about it while subconsciously moving ones hand down the chin.
Hah - that's me. Loads of rolling stock, far too many locos, and barely any track laid. I need a garage!!
Let us not forget that procrastination is a sin (or perhaps it should be).
Hi from Aotearoa New Zealand. I'm a bit late to the party as this video is 18 months old, but look to start my own layout as a retirement project. I bought a second hand dismantled N gauge layout, and quite a bit of used rolling stock to start with while I get a feel for it all. Thank you for your comments on AnyRail and Scarm as I've downloaded the trial versions of each and have started trying to compare them. I guess the secret would be to design a reasonable layout the same in each and see how they compare. Anyway, thanks for the interesting observations and low-key 'British' presentation. 🚂
Yup, dropped my double track layout in favour of a single track / loop / run through connecting my 4 modules, each one it's own unique miniature layout with shunting potential.
Takes approximately 20-35 to PROPERLY shunt just one of the sidings if done at prototypical speeds, manual coupling and allowing time for the crew to switch points and hook things up.
For this I tend to allow 30-50 seconds when coupling or uncoupling a wagon.
And between 15-20 seconds when switching tracks down points.
As you say, it's about what you enjoy mate!
Maybe I'd enjoy shunting more if I knew more about. I just don't have a clue how it would work in real life.
@@LittleWicketRailway RUclips is your friend, my friend.
I find it so theroputic shunting trains about, but you do really need clean track and wheels for the slow speed movements required otherwise it's just over far too quickly...
My locos have stay alives fitted so slow speed running just isn't an issue anymore thankfully!
Glad to see a video about the layou itself and not just reviews. Looking forward to seeing more or this layout
Thanks 👍
Thanks for sharing. I can totally relate that it is easy to get carried away putting more track down just because the room is there when really the answer is less, not more. I too have used the Anyrail software and it was very useful in the early days as I iterated on my design ideas. I would recommend it for anyone thinking of anything bigger than a table top layout. The ability to work in layers and turn the visibility on and and off as needed is very handy. (room outline, frame work, track plan (in several zones) and even wire runs are some of my different layers for example).
I really need to learn how to use AnyRail properly, sounds like there's loads more I could be doing with it.
I am revisiing this now and agree with you. Less track is better. In real railways, to keep costs down, the rule is minimum track to get the job done. You are absolutely right. It starts looking cluttered and you end up with unused areas if you have too much track for the space.
I have found with track building (as with other things in life) failure/doing something wrong is not a bad thing its just part of the learning curve and the fear of failing/making mistakes shouldn't stop you starting to get you laying down track.
I'm waiting to get my TT120 train set to get myself started with this hobby. I've been playing around with layouts in Anyrail and have lots of plans. Your layout looks great and has given me some good ideas and I take on board your comments and advice. Like you my layout will be in an urban environment and I need some ideas about how to fill the centre area of the track. Many other layouts are easy to fill where its just fields and hills with a few sheep. Thanks.
Realy like your videos and you gave everyone a very god advice "Think about what you enjoy", that is the most important thing about building a model railway. Super!
Thanks Henrik 👍
Space is very much the final frontier. I am still in the design stage of my layout and I would encourage anyone at that point in the process to use AnyRail. It is easy to learn and allows the user to evolve their first designs - it even provides lists of track used so that the user can cost out their designs. Your layout looks great and brings you joy which in the end is the whole point of model railways. I sense, though, one day, you'll rip it all out and start again.
Thanks Don. If I continue with this layout then there will definitely be a few changes.
Thanks, Don. As I mentioned in my first comment, I'll try both programmes but another vote for AnyRail is helpful.
I feel ive definitely hit my creative limit with SCARM. Ill give anyrail a go to see if things work out a bit easier
I agree with the view that you have to build a layout before you know what you actually enjoy, and what works well in the space available. I've been tinkering with my layout for years, eliminating problems where derailments occur - thankfully most were in places where track wasn't ballasted. Hidden track is still a pain - I have curves beneath a town scene. In theory I can lift off the town to clean the track below, and sort out any derailments there, but in practice it is such a faff that I avoid it if at all possible.
A very entertaining video and I agree with you that watching the trains go by is rewarding for me. You should run what you like and enjoy seeing. I have lifted the outdoor part of my layout because like you I overdid all the track as you said less is best.
As much as I like Hornby range of locos and rolling stock peco streamline points and flex track are the way to go if you want trains moving around at pleasing angles. The peco turntable is also great. I recently replaced my old Hornby one and absolutely love it.
Quite a good layout. A well made explanatory video showing how you designed the layout. Thanks for uploading.
Great summary. Yes I think you really need to operate a layout for some time before you get into the scenic. I found my passing loops were all too short and have rebuilt sections already after 6 months, pulling out scenery and ballast etc.
Thanks Peter. That's the other thing, the length of the passing loops are fine for the trains I had originally, but now I want to run longer trains. I've got the FM Rail Blue Pullman with the class 47 and 6 coaches and a couple of 6 car HSTs that don't come close to fitting.
Almost frustrating that you almost need to operate a layout before you decide what you want on a layout as a lot of work can go into a section that doesn't work so well. I'm really keen to avoid roundy-roundy, yet I find end to end layouts dull (though automation and block detection would change that I think). For me, 90% of the enjoyment is building the thing, Electronics, carpentry, design, and a heap of problem solving alone in my shed with a podcast. Great video as usual.
I like a lot of people's comments here: the expressions of discovering what they actually like about a layout (if even a layout) rather than thinking what they should be liking about a layout. I've started to be very tolerant of the plastic based track systems (Kato, Roco, Marklin C etc) for exactly that reason you've expressed; operating a layout learning what bits actually interest you and reworking lots of layout as a result
Totally agree with this 👍 I think those outside the hobby just see us playing with trains and wonder how that can be fun, but for me it's all the other elements like the electronics, creativity, history, capentry, etc. that makes this hobby entertaining. There really is something for everybody.
Another great video Rob, this will help a great deal in the thought process when laying my layout. 👍
Thanks Pete 👍 Good luck with the layout build!
Very helpful advice, thank you. ADM turntables are really good and realistic but you have to enjoy shunting to make full use of them.
Thanks Alex, I'll check out ADM 👍
What a great layout. You're very lucky and have worked very hard. Isn't it sad that we don't SEE the issues until after it's built? LOL! I'm in the process of creating a small N scale and I don't like shunting either. I just want a couple of trains on two tracks to travel around the layout, one a passenger train and the other a freight. Either could be swapped with a logging or coal trail or even the circus train when it rolls through. But what I like is seeing them go around and around my little town in opposite directions, passing at the bridge. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for sharing, nice layout,Kudos ,and applause.at 602 you mention track problem, I see possibility's. use the 3 tracks as a yard to make up trains, while avoiding mainline trains,...interesting challenge.it has now become a space for one operator....success is getting what you want...happiness is enjoying what you have...carry on.
Thank you for the good advice. Keep up the good work
Thanks Shaun 👍
Thank you. I really enjoyed the video and your observations.
for the space you have thats actually not a bad track plan, my thanks for the video, especially showing the thinking behind it. very nice to see the idea of "let a few trains run" while you fiddle with something else. Obvious compromise on train length but the flip side is you get more trains and lets face it, the "real thing" is 10-12 coaches anyway so does 2, 3 or 4 in model form really matter?
agree on shunting being somewhat tedious, let trains run and concentrate on that, shutning to be for setting up trains.
seriously nice to see you have thought of something way too many 'suggested' track plans lack, _how it will operate_, and where to put excess trains - you see a lot of twin track with a few sidings but when you look closer really only space for two or maybe three trains, you have space for loads :)
those Hornby curved points are a nightmare, problem seems to be the check rails being non-functional so stuff hits the common crossing in the middle and jumps the track - the PECO ones are better (slightly), Hornby points are just terrible generally - you do what you can with them and when you have them they are too expensive to throw away.. (normal track is fine).
overall its actually a really nice layout, a bit crowded? maybe but with the space you have anything beyond a few loops and a single station will be, the hill actually breaks it up nicely
do agree on that awful looking turn table though, pity its about the only ready to roll one at a less than 'new mortgage' price that will sit on top of a base board
thumbs up from me, key bit being it looks fun
Thanks Dale. Everything is always going to be a compromised with this hobby unless you've got endless resources. Why are the turntables so expensive!?! I did consider making one with a lazy susan and a stepper motor.
My layouts so far have been created using the track that I have available rather than a track plan. This is made easier using set track as you say.
Space is always an issue especially for Island tye layouts.
Planning your township along with your track layout is definitely good advice so you end up with something that you're happy with.
Have a look at my 5 build layout build and B12 Running Session videos if you have time.
Happy Modelling
Mon.
Really helpful insights and thanks for sharing your thoughts before, during and after design.
Nice video - good to hear what you would do differently next time. Over the winter, I built my first n gauge layout - I can see similarities with this one. I also planned in advance using Any Rail which was great for identifying what track I needed to buy. I too found curved points (PECO) to be a problem as well as a diamond crossing. I also found that having a track too close to the edge of the board dangerous as a derailed train might leap onto the floor! So I tweaked my design, simplifying it to remove the problem areas and found 0-6-0 locos were better at staying on the tracks since there are less small wheels. The end result was a less complex track layout, but probably more realistic since there was more space for scenery. Less is definitely more.
Thanks Gavin 👍 Touch wood I've only had a single nose diving loco and that was before I put boards round the edge of the layout, although that's also something I'd change since they're a bit too high.
Great analysis. I think like you, I have evolved my layout rather than planned it, but learning from my mistakes has actually been fun. I particularly like your videos on control and automation. You give instructions clearly and know your stuff. I now use JMRI because of your direction and teaching. You have a great talent for explaining complex things simply in a very listenable manner. Very impressive. Thank you for all the advice, keep those videos coming. Can you do one on lighting please including simulated arc welding, level crossings and station and building lighting.
Thanks, I really appreciate that. I've not put much lighting onto this layout, but if I rebuild then it's something that I'd like to do. Check out the last video I did on CMRI where you can control outputs on the Ardunio and use relays to turn lighting on and off, this might be of interest.
Very useful video Rob - thank you
I can see where your expectations were with your description, but where the layout went in the direction when all was said and done. For a small line i would nix the turntable and extend the station siding, also since you like running trains more than shunting and switching, I would recommend you go to a "folded dogbone" layout that way you can have a mainline that is continuous, a fiddle yard of three tracks is still a good idea as you get more rolling stock and engines, it can be troublesome putting in and taking out trains you want on your layout at a given moment 👍💪🚃🚋🚎🚞
Easy fix to reduce the turntable noise and also slow it down- install a small resistor in line with the power feed to the turntable motor. I used a 30ohm one I think or thereabouts and it is a great improvement for very little effort....
Thanks! I think I need to lubricate the gears, it's the mashing sound as they turn which is really noisey.
You are inspiring me to build a new layout.
Yay! Good luck with the build! 👍
Yep I need to get ballast some trees and other things
Lots of good ideas amd very informative. Thanks.
Thanks Brian 👍
what an intelligent analysis. it's funny, it's not so much about the pros and cons of your layout design, it's just as much about your journey of discovering what actually interests you. lots of folk like shunting, but it's interesting (even on RUclips) how many are very content aimlessly shuffling wagons about whilst being derisive of trains going round a continuous oval. I've seen very "unrealistic" tinplate track designs of the 1910's and '20's being intelligently used as planned and can be more satisfying and realistically used than a high detailed layout of today. it's breaking down what you want out of it, and how you utilise it. I think it's a little annoying the derogatory "toy train" connotations that the ready ballasted track (e.g Kato unitrack, marklin c, tillig bettungsgleis, Roco etc) has. yes, but as you've inferred: happy with layout, but want to do a few track changes and quite often ballasted track ain't coming up in the same state as when it went down.
Extremely wary of turntables: great action, cool thing, however they inevitably seem to take up an inordinate amount of space and due to this end up being a focal point of one's layout, due to unfortunately being larger than your main station. great work, really enjoy your channel
Thanks. I think I'd enjoy shunting if I understood it a bit more and gave it more of a purpose e.g. these wagons need to go there for a reason. Also, the little shunters were a bit fussy over point work (now mostly fixed with stay alives) and all the manually uncoupling meant the hand of god was coming into play a lot. A main aim on the layout was automation and automated shunting is probably one of the biggest challenges out there. I feel a side project coming on, a fully automated shunting puzzle.
Regarding the turntable, you're definitely right about it being an unwanted focal point. The Harborne turntable (before they got rid of it) was actually really small, but I had the Hornby version so figured I'd use that, plus it fits the bigger locos.
@@LittleWicketRailway some of the US folk have these switching layouts really sorted (something like RUclips's 15th street layout) BUT they are huge garage sized things: a modern 2 freight car unit being about 10 4 wheelers long. you don't see many Coronation Scot Expresses rolling through. some steam era ones are a bit more seemly in the size department but again they're big. and they serve industries which means large buildings even if just false fronts. yes there's 6' long layouts and these are again solely for shunting some wagons in and out. which can be great, but it's not for everyone.
I think you were well on the right track with your inglenook sidings puzzle on top there. I feel though that a) if it was located more at the front of the layout it's more available to be hands on and close up which is a lot of the pleasure in shunting, where it is it's just a little buried... and b) it was a puzzle. which solely exists as a puzzle and not for any purposeful shunting. say you've got a distillery: what does a distillery need? sugar? packaging? hops? all different wagons: how is the finished product transported? is it all going to the same place or do you need different wagons of the same species because they're going different ways throughout the day? you get the idea.
an automated shunting puzzle works because it is a complete whole, saw first this done in the sixties and it was exactly as you describe: it's purpose wasn't for shunting wagons, it was an automated puzzle, wagons just happened to be the medium.
An interesting and honest review of your build to date. Hopefully we can have a chat over a cuppa sometime at a MR Show. Regards Charlie.
Thanks Charlie. Sounds like a plan! 👍 Hoping some shows open up again soon.
Great video, plenty to think about
Thanks William 👍
I've started my first ever layout (N-Scale) and one of the biggest mistakes I made was making it too complex! I think for a first layout I should have scaled it back - as there are so many little issues you run into that you can't plan for. When it comes to my second (which wont be for some time) there are many things I would do differently - but this is how you learn! Either way, i'm still enjoying it!
Thanks A D! Glad I'm not alone 👍
Every layout is a learning project, of which nearly all of us will want something else or changes later. I love sitting with pen and paper, have different results Every day.
This is a real problem at the moment though. I need to get going on the new layout, but I'm too scared to commit 😫
Love your videos, very informative and it's helping me design my layout, still trying to work out Dcc stuff , thank you..
Thanks Tony. Hope the layout design is coming along 👍
I don't have time Space and money at present to do a layout however in future I would like to. I live vicariously through youtubers and I've been crafting a file of my wants in a future layout so that is good.
When the time comes you'll have the perfect layout 👍
Hi,
I know this is a bit late but I have been considering what I would do. So for help with coming into the station from the right S curves caused by the points one the main lines . That would be the best place to try and use your curved points. You could also move the points slightly further away from the station. As they would now be infront of the cross over points this would mean that you do not need the other set of cross over points on the right hand side of Little Wicket station. As you can now move the middle platform across a little you could put a right hand point where the left hand one was on the outside main line joining upto a left hand point put where the half curve is coming from the storage sidings to the outside track. This would mean that the 2 remaining storage sidings now have direct access to the main lines. I would also loose one of the storage siding closest to the curved points and use the extra space to change the curved points to standard points. And yes get rid of the turntable. If you really want a decent turntable go for the Flieschmann one. It is a great turntable but it has 2 drawbacks. One you have to cut a bloody big hole in your baseboard and the cost. It is about £450-£500. So the sensable option would be to put a return loop inplace of the turntable.
That's a really considered response, thanks 😊 Holy moly £500 for a turntable!!! What does it do???
I had a similar experience to you and would say less is more for sure!
Just discovered your channel, great video explaining the good and bad points about your layout. I am literally going through the same process with my N gauge layout Westmorland but I am actually now changing the things that I can. Cheers Gary
Thanks Gary 👍 Subbed and looking forward to seeing your progress
Great advice.
Only recently found your channel, and really happy I subscribed.
Thanks Tony 👍
Very good video lots of information great to see 😊
Thanks Roger 👍
You’re a Birmingham? Me too.. into Canada in 1951! Nice channel! I’m an old guy as you can guess from my entry into Canada. Keep up the good work. Love trains. Work in HO and N. And have fun with electronics.
Hi Tony! You used to live in Birmingham? Do you recall the Harborne branch line by any chance?
@@LittleWicketRailway sorry, no. I was only a year old when I got here.
Hi Rob, just liked and subbed, don't worry about seeing things you would have done differently, I've been railway modelling for donkeys years, and I still make mistakes, mostly because I didn't plan it properly, we are all just human, I suppose, anyway, thank you for putting up an inspiring video, stay safe, all the best from Scotland, Stephen.
Thanks Stephen 👍 Glad I'm not alone.
If you have Train Simulator, it has a very powerful editor that you can build a real life sized 3d layout and use the 2d map to get a track plan layout and means you can literally put in every tree, lay out grass or even using Google maps import in real life into TS and all you have to do is bring the real life scale down to 4mm scale.
I do have Train Simulator and I never knew this was possible! Do you know of any good tutorials on how to go about it? (I'm terrible at Train Sim, never stop where I'm meant to at the platform)
Very useful layout analysis, I am sure I am making so many mistakes but just ploughing on for now, so much to learn but every aspect is a challenge and good fun. Cheers :)
Cheers Guy 👍 I'm also a member of the "Just Ploughing On" club 😄
Hello from the US! I have been enjoying your tutorials. Dcc++ and dcc++EX are still a little puzzling to me. Just starting out. By the time I have the layout done, I would like to to have it fully automated for open houses.
Good video. Great advice.
Thanks John 👍
I have a 5ft x 3ft layout single track using rad 2 curves with sidings etc…. I always find less is best as the scenery makes the layout standout
6:18 I had similar problems with Hornby curved points - great space-savers, but the track gauge appears to be problematic and they have a very long insulated frog. I replaced them with Peco and had no problems since.
Thanks Ian 👍 I'm going Peco next time. Potentially electrofrog too.
@@LittleWicketRailway I think you'll have to have larger radius curves for electrofrog curved points.
Not to bad of a layout.
With my track planning, especially with the new layout I'm about to build, one type of track I'm avoiding to use as much as possible. The Curved points. with many of my rolling stock and engines, they just don't like them, had to many derailments on them in the past. I normally use Peco track too.
The curved points caused me a lot of issues too, I'll be avoiding them in future unless I absolutely have to.
Nice video! You've done a good job with the layout still! Do you think you could show us what in your stock can actually handle first radius curves? It's not something I can find much information on. I have a hidden reverse loop on my layout but as it is hidden, I'm more concerned about what can run over it without derailing rather than how bad it looks. Cheers!
Thanks! I will add this to the video list, sounds like a fun little experiment 👍
Great to learn more about Little Wicket, some good tips in there like making the switch from SCARM to Anyrail. I tried to incorporate the inglenook into my layout too but it does take up a lot of space, do you think it would’ve worked better without the engine shed? Looking forward to seeing what you do next!
Thanks Joe. To me having the engine shed was more important that the puzzle because I wanted to keep a loco up there permanently. The shed does get in the way of the puzzle though.
Looks fun.
That be a good track plan in n gauge
Hi Rob, I am curious about the Hollister hoodie that you are wearing. We used to go to the off-road park in Hollister when we lived in San Jose as a practice with our ZR2 before going off in the wilds.
Hi Nigel, it's a just a really old hoodie that I've recently discovered again, sadly no links to Hollister the place. It's from the Hollister shop in Birmingham where the lights are barely on, they pumped in a fragrence and the staff uniform appears to be swimwear for some of the year.
Nice video thanks !!
Thanks 👍
I really like what you have done!!!! Very detailed and many trains running, but as you said, it is the person running it to decide what works for them. I have 2 outer loops that the inner loop turns in to a figure 8 for reversing. All single level, and multi level would be better. I am on a 4x8 as i call it my Covid-HO ... while all my O are away as I want to move but house prices are horrid. I am learning DCC++-EX, arduino controlled relays, etc... so im learning and not much on the scene as I want to run trains. I am going to have a look at your setup again as I like how you have many trains.
I dont think I heard it, but what is the layout size?
What an enjoyable video! Can I ask what are the dimensions of the layout - did you say 4ft side? How long is it please?
Thanks 😊 4ft wide and 11ft long.
Hello, thanks a lot for all your videos. Please, can you share the total size of your layout and the radius you used? Thanks a lot in advance
Really helpful video. Thank you. I’m at the very early stages of planning so really helps. Would you still recommend Anyrail? I only have a Mac unfortunately so would have to run it in an emulator.
Yeah, still really like AnyRail. Think you can get a free trial if you wanted to give it a go.
@@LittleWicketRailway Great! Thanks. Looking at their forum, it runs well on parallels on a Mac. Thanks again and Merry Christmas Andrew
As a new sub to your site I’m enjoying the philosophy behind your layout and the honesty of any mistakes made 👍
Watching others who have been building layouts for eons they always seem to be tearing parts out of their layouts and starting over......then repeat again every so many years. So you’re not alone with wanting changes and perhaps that’s the way it is with playing the trains game? 🤔
Whatever you do m8 it’ll look good 😎
All the best. JohnE
Thanks John 👍 I think you're right, a layout is never finished.
it'd be a godsend if hornby would upgrade their standard points with 3rd or 4th radius curves, no more use of the 2nd radius points. have had so many derailments with them i've lost count to be honest.
I had to spend quite a bit of time carefully filing the plastic which was the main area that was causing derailments. I shouldn't really have so many facing points really though, asking for trouble.
This is a really good set idea design. I recently just bought the station terminus for my slowly growing layout but there is a problem. With the station I am trying to turn into four platforms to run four trains, two to stop and two to run. But every time I try and connect the track it is either too short or too long and not able to connect. The points I am using are points I had before and points from train packs I am thinking about following your track plan for the station but can you please tell me what you think?
Think your videos are great
Thanks Mike! 👍
Interesting. I live just a few miles from you, where did you get all bits from? Whenever I look up model shops they are all several counties away.
That's a great layout for a 8 x 4, I would love to use that if I may. Can I ask what track you used, and is there possibly a layout with the track part numbers available online somewhere? Thanks
What size did your baseboard end up being. I’m currently designing my 00 gauge layout and not sure what size to go for. I prefer continuous running to shunting though.
I think it ended up being 11ft by 4ft
What size is the base? Thanks for the interesting video
Its a great first draft!
Will you make those changes? Or starting a new one?
I'm keen to operate mine before doing the scenics to try and find the quirks! (Not fully wired yet)
We're meant to be moving house soon. If we do then it'll get a rebuild, if we don't then I'll probably make a few changes.
I think it's a nice layout, man. :) What made you decide to only use standard points rather than express points? Running long wheel base locos and rolling stock over the regular points causes a lot of overhang which isn't realistic looking but I find express points tend to screw up the geometry of your tracks and it can only be resolved by using flexi-track.
Hi J! Partly because I had a lot of standard points from train sets and at the time I wasn't really aware that anything else was available, plus as you've said they're good for geometry and save quite a bit of space. I'm not sure how much longer an express point is compared with a standard point, but it might have knocked a few inches off the platforms.
Love it
Sorry my 3 rail HD would need about 30ft for this layout!
Love what you have done. What size is it?
Thanks Brian, it was 4ft x 11ft. Currently being rebuilt.
@@LittleWicketRailway thank you
Hi, I was wondering if you would share the anyrail file, as i would like to have a closer look and use little wicket railway to give me some inspiration for mine. Thank you!
And just subscribed.
Thanks Tony 👍
Did anyone ever tell you, that your voice and narrative style is nearly identical to that of Big Car - also one of my favourite channels; had to do a double take 😂
Great Video, and lovely railway; I like it 🤗
Haha, they haven't, but I'll check Big Car out 👍
Where can I download your Anyrail file? Happy to make a donation to your layout. Is this a 6x4 OO layout?
any chance of anyrail file going to build something similar great use of 8x4 board
Yay
I'm curious why you say you'll change it in your next layout... There's nothing that says you can't redo the layout you have. Layouts are made to be changed! It's the fun of the hobby I think!
Hi William! We moved house and I had to take it apart. I've got the opportunity to rebuild now, so that's why I'm saying next layout. Totally agree that making changes/improvement as you go is part of the fun, although some of these were pretty fundamental.
I have enjoyed this video, so much so that I have tried to copy it using Anyrail, with peco, track code 100. Is there away you can help me to do this ? I don't have the full verson of Anyrail.
Love the name Little Wicket. It's so English. Does it have a meaning? Why Little Wicket?
I think it looks good but one opinion is not rule ,I'm currently stuck with mine being just 10 by 4 I've the 2 continuse loops but I dont like it am thinking pulling it all back up as no ballist but I've literally no idea on a track plan
Before you pull it up it's definitely worth coming up with a track plan. Nothing worse than having nowhere to run the models.
Which software la kages did you use to help you get your design accurate.
Hi Keith, I use AnyRail now. Really pleased with it.
What software for model railway track planning is there??
I've only tried AnyRail and SCARM. I preferred AnyRail. There are probably more.
Doing it and making mistakes is better than endless planning until you have it perfect but never actually building your layout.
Wise words 👍
Bah I would have loved this video 4 months ago :/
What is your board size? Thanks.
4ft x about 10ft
How difficult was the power to install I’m a beginer
What is the length and width of the layout?
Keep sidings parallel to the main track, lots of wasted space in the central area which could be used for a town with buses/ trams, shops, a mall, car parks, open park space, a canal wharf, the list is endless...
Are your buildings card?
Most of them are card buildings from Metcalfe
Yes
Is little wicket on gauge or n gauge?
Hi Adrian, it's OO gauge/scale.
Bocetos de trenes y maquetas de los trenes
Rob ....... please take a very hard look at your layout. Please write down all the mistakes that you made on your layout. Then you redesign a new layout with half as much track . In the meantime so down and enjoy what you have 😄
First