FF7R Part 3 - Will Sephiroth Try To Convince Cloud That He Caused Aerith's Death?
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2024
- Came across a really interesting idea regarding Final Fantasy VII Remake Part 3 & Sephiroth's manipulation of Cloud. What if he convinces Cloud that HE was the one to kill Aerith?
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The scene where Cloud wakes up Aerith, if played backwards, would be almost exactly the same as the water burial process.
I think it's super interesting! Definitely a way to mess with Clouds mind even more than it already is as an unreliable narrarator due to mako poisoning. I think this will also put extra strain on the relationship between Cloud and the rest of the party, especially Tifa. Awesome video!
Love it! This is definitely a theory I agree with. But I think in addition to Aerith, Cloud also feels he brought Zack down, feels he could never be good enough for Tifa, and blames himself for his mother's death hardest of all!
I figured a re-typed shortened comment would suffice. Didn't want to leave a comment that made me sound insane lol. Love the vids, man!
The OG scene of Cloud attacking Aerith has always been super sus to me. Like, we can’t trust anything we’re seeing after that point.
Her being in a coma tells me that her spirit is traveling just the way they did the ending. Her spirit traveled to help cloud and her friends that that she felt was family.❤ but he was also manipulating him into killing Tifa. And if you really think about it, look at the way Sepheroth treats cloud, he cares about him at least a part of him cares about him, but also a part of him manipulates him too
Just helped me imagine really meta parallels and an inversion that is being made with Rebirth's ending in relation to Remake's ending.
Cloud's unconscious confusion on whether he killed Aerith at Rebirth's conclusion inverts our conscious confusion on whether we killed the OG plot at Remake's conclusion. Funny enough... the power that these developers wield over our emotions with such knowing and confidenct puppeteering sorta.... Sorta reminds me of someone throughout this ReTri saga. 🪽
What a bunch of mad mages they both are if these meta relationships are intentional to their story. Makes me wonder just how in control of the story Sephiroth is being given... And how exactly would Cloud's Lifestream sequence of "awakening" from Sephiroth's control be paralleled through a gameplay mechanic that lets us experience "breaking free" from the developers control?
Lots to ponder.... Back to Lucrecia to gaze and ponder... Ponder the flow of life... The reality of consciousness...
To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of this theory just because I don't think there's really a good place in the story for them to do it. When the party reaches the Whirlwind Maze, the iconic scene of Sephiroth telling Cloud and Tifa the half-truth about what happened at Nibelheim should, in my opinion, be faithfully re-created. That moment causes Cloud to hit rock bottom. If they also throw in having Sephiroth try to convince Cloud that he killed Aerith, it's just going to be overkill. That scene is all about Sephiroth trying to use Cloud's dependence on Tifa against him.
I think trying to have Sephiroth interfere with the Lifestream sequence is also probably going to feel like a bit much, especially if that's the place where he tries to convince Cloud that he killed Aerith. I feel like that scene has to end with Cloud's mind being fully reassembled. It should practically be a forgone conclusion, so Sephiroth trying to make up yet another lie is just going to feel desperate.
I think the scenes have to be carefully crafted to hit the right plot and character beats, and if they try to shove too much into those scenes, or have too many similar scenes, it's just going to feel off-balance.
Given how much gaslighting Sephiroth was doing in Rebirth he'll probably try and blame it on Tifa! lol
Lmao hell yeah
Cloud actually managed to save Aerith in forgotten capital. When Cloud blocked Sephiroth's sword a bright rainbow colored light appeared out of nowhere and then Sephiroth's sword flies into the ground. Then the scene switches into main timeline where he kills Aerith. We see Aerith being covered in blood when Barret and the others arrive to the scene. When we see them crying around her body there is no rainbow light anywhere to be seen. Then after the final fight is over Cloud walks to check on Aerith, the scene changes and Barret and the others mysteriously disappear and Cloud is suddenly alone with Aerith and this bright rainbow colored light is surrounding the altar. We learned from Zack's actions that this light symbolizes the creation of parallel worlds. Also Sephiroth said that everytime the fate gets breached it leads into the creation of another parallel world. This is what we see when Cloud blocks Sephiroth's attack in forgotten capital. The scene goes back and forth implying that there are two parallel realities where Aerith died and survived. Main timeline Aerith is dead but Aerith from that timeline Cloud's actions created is alive and well. When this light is surrounding the altar we see that Aerith is uninjured. There is no blood to be seen around her body. Cloud asks Aerith to wake up and she opens her eyes and smiles at Cloud. Main world Aerith's spirit also thanked Cloud for saving her during the last fight
"I saw what you did back there Cloud, thank you."
and Cait Sith's first fortune reading heavily foreshadows this moment:
"Things are looking up so throw your caution to the wind. Place your trust in others and the last minute twist may pleasantly surprise you."
this is somewhat what i got too.
- cloud did save aerith. albeit for that instance, it was true that cloud really did block sephi.
- sephi somehow cycled through the lifestream which where aerith would still be stabbed.
- because aerith also cycles through the lifestream, she knows that there is a single instance(or maybe multiple instances) that cloud was able to save her.
- because tifa is now connected on the lifestream, somehow she saw a version of cloud that has stabbed aerith (he himself ableit manipulated)
it was pretty much laid out all through out remake and rebirth that tifa knows that cloud could get physically violent. remember the scene where they first rescued johhny and tifa said "cloud, youre scaring me" or something like that. after that, she would almost always be the one to physically stop cloud whenever he is being physically violent, while aerith would almost always be the one calming his soul.
just moments before aerith died, tifa stopped cloud from killing elena.
at the end of rebirth, tifa was not only confused by what happened, not only was she sad about aerith, not only is she questioning cloud's sanity, she is scared OF him and also scared FOR him.
the rest of the party saw the plain version of what happened, sephi kiled aerith. but barret pretty much admitted that he knows something is wrong with cloud, but he would still trust cloud for the mean time.
sephi would most probably confuse tifa even further on 7rp3.
tifa and cloud is bound to fight like what they did at the beginning of rebirth, but worst.
tifa would break down and thats probably when she would spit her guts out.
A) tifa might leave the party, rest of them would continue with cloud or B) the gang would split up because of tifa and cloud fighting or C) gang would force cloud out of the party D) cloud would leave the party telling them they are a bunch of Ls.
aerith, now we know how close tifa and aerith are, would most probably be the one helping tifa from inside. aerith would always be the helper of soul.
it is very clear now that cloud is degrading. they would probably play on the idea of cloud transforming to a robed man, if not very close to becoming one, and tifa saving him. i wouldnt be surprised if wheel chair cloud of the og would be turned instead to a robed man cloud.
at that point, i dont see why they cant insert zack to help patch things up or open up possibilities(zack is the key to possibilities. if anything, he is the missing key to whatever solution aerith is looking for. and he also is the hero archetype. he is bound to help the main party one way or another.)
they could do a three way rescue for cloud; with aerith to cloud's soul, zack to his future and defying fate, tifa to him physically and the rest of what needs to be saved.
as for sephi... i personally dont want them to redeem him. but i would like them to ground himself in a way that they grounded ardyn(15). they would probably play him off as a victim of fate because they like to do that with their villains. they are extremely playing with the before humanity and after humanity of sephi, i really wouldnt be surprised if he gets an ardyn treatment. not saying thats what i like, but i wouldnt complain on whatever they would do with sephi..
Not just convincing Cloud but the rest of the party - this would be the ultimate Sephiroth move. There is a reason they kept the party out of that scene... So that doubt can be sowed, as they didn't witness her death. If his friends lose faith and trust in Cloud... He's a goner
Well tbh it would be super if Tifa though Cloud could kill her
As a professional sound dude, this microphone seems to have a little better lower end frequencies. Previous mic sounds a little more ‘airy’ but overall very minimal difference
Good to know. Thanks!
As a non-professional sound guy I can say that this sound professional probably knows better than I. Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.
so is tifa still going to save cloud in part 3?
@@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft she better! Haha. They better not mess that scene up. That was one of my favorites. Her and cloud getting his head straight through out the livestream while the rest of the party shoots their shot against the weapon!
@@Leescreativeart what will happen if tifa doesn't save cloud in part 3?
If sephiroth is going to try that it’ll have to be before the lifestream sequence. Aerith is protecting them during that time and at that point she is far stronger then sephiroth. She won’t let him in.
I think its pretty much obvious. Sephiroth knows Cloud and crew will stop him everytime in the main world. So this time he will manipulate Cloud by convincing him that he can live with Aerith in the omni-world, where all worlds merge. Which means also the ones where she lives. This is pretty much the only way for him to stop Cloud from ruining his plans. Remember what he said: "Perhaps you need...a little push".
He wanted to bring Cloud pain by killing Aerith and using his grief to manipulate him even after he regains his memory. And thats the kicker. Cloud always get his memories back and then defeats Sephiroth. But this time he gives Cloud the chance to really save Aerith, if he helps him. Which of course will backfire, since Aerith would never forgive Cloud if he did such a thing.
Interesting. Although sephiroth always just wanted to fuck him up with "hey you cant save no one" maybe that could be a new twist.
This would still fall under “you can’t save anyone”
I don’t think this’ll be the path they go down as I think they’re going down the cloud is in denial path about her death past. I think him having to acknowledge she’s dead is enough to break him mentally, plus he’s not who he says he is, with the Zack/soldier past. They might
I agree we missed these moments and they’ll be in the 3rd game, but I think they should have been in this one, cloud can be in denial but we the player should have felt the impact and they robbed us of that, it won’t be the same later
This involves the cloud in denial stuff
@@DashingDavid yeah, well it’s speculation so who knows what they’ll do. We’ll see in a few years I guess!
I think Sephiroth still needs to fuck with him in that he’s not who he thinks he is, it can get a bit convoluted, but as we’ve seen in part 1 and 2 square dont really have a problem with that
@@ForzaTerra89will tifa save cloud from his mental state in part 3?
@@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft yeah I don’t think that would change
@@ForzaTerra89 i hope they don't change it because if they change it and everybody will be very disappointed and not going to buy part 3 at all?
I'm not sure. The one thing I do know is they've been tone death with a lot of the major emotional scenes from the game (Plate dropping and that Palmer fight right after Dyne) so this third game better wrap everything up in a nice little bow.
2:30 Kind of fundamentally undercutting the core of Cloud's character with a needless red herring, his promise to Tifa as a kid, and the original big reveal the devs said was their favorite scene in the original but whatever. Not a remake, sequel to the Compilation, things will be radically different at every turn, the devs were extremely honest, something something stupid purist, I get it.
At some point the game just morphs into a SNL skit. "Cloud, Zack was the SOLDIER all along, but you were there. Cloud, you didn't kill Aerith, Sephiroth did. Cloud, Tifa isn't a Jenova doppelganger, Red XIII is. Cloud, the multiple branching worlds aren't actually reality, you're in reality." The Lifestream segment is going to be like that scene from Airplane! where everybody lines up to slap some sense into Cloud now. Genesis "Snap out of it, get a hold of yourself." SLAP Angeal "Cloud, SHOW ME YOUR SOLDIER HONOR!" SLAP Young Sephiroth -This is for Refu! SLAP
I don't see how that would undercut Cloud's character in any way shape or form.
I think Cloud DID kill Aerith. You don't see Sephinroth's blade actually strike Aerith. At the end of chapter Gongaga, Cloud starts behaving like Sephinroth and starts murdering infantrymen, he may not be aware that he's killing them, but he definately kills them.
It's true we don't see Aerith get punctured by Sephiroth's blade however just that scene alone if shown in its entirety would've jumped up the Game's rating to M (mature). That's something Square Enix wants to avoid.
And if they did show the stab they might've used the smoke effect seen in Final Fantasy 7 Remake with Barret getting stabbed and most every player I saw online during that time, loathed that decision to not show red blood. It's a hard balancing act.
It's true I haven't played part 3 so maybe Cloud is guilty but I personally think that's not the case here.
This is absurd. Sephiroth clearly merged the og ff7 timeline with the current one to make sure aerith dies. Isn't it obvious?
Unfortunately for me, I don’t like a lot of the major story changes they have done so far, so to me, I’m sure they will butcher more iconic scenes in the 3rd game
Since you're this out of the loop...
1. Cloud knows Aerith is alive. FF7 Rebirth begins and ends by showing that characters (Red XIII, Barrett) who die in "other worlds" do not die in all of them. Cmon, Zack dies more than Kenny. Unlike OG Cloud who was a puppet scripted to recite things when witnessing Aerith's death, Rebirth Cloud is "I got this." And you RUclipsrs need to accept it already. Seph tried to replace Beagle with OG, but Cloud was "cured" enough to stop him. Aerith is alive and flirting with Cloud, no matter how much you don't want to believe it.
Cloud is not in denial. *You* are. You and other RUclipsrs. Quit ignoring the story. Marlene didn't fail. Zack didn't fail, and Cloud didn't fail. Aerith and Zack are both alive alive alive alive. And who listens to Marlene? Everyone. Everyone but you.
2. Zack's three choices demonstrate the Freudian id, the unconscious mind which simply wants things without logic or reason, projecting them as dreams. Oops spoiler alert, btw. And who is Id? The maker of Doom. So again, you RUclipsrs ignore Doomguy references everywhere in Rebirth such as rabbit portraits. Oda even foreshadowed 3/20/20 in his 3/19/18 Shonen Jump comment about Animal Crossing.
Repent, unbelievers. DOOM IS COMING.
You sound like an idiot
@@DashingDavid You sound like a RUclipsr. Fool vs. genius round 2. Go.