Snooker Incident: players vs refs ‒who are right? | Mark Selby vs Scott Donaldson | 2018 China Open
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2020
- Mark Selby and Scott Donaldson claim that there are discrepancies between break size and score. They claim failures in the marker twice. The referee does not speak English fluently, so Brendan Moore enters the scene to help solve the problem.
Mark Selby vs Scott Donaldson, frame 2, 2018 China Open - Last 64
The statistics shown in the video correspond to the date of the match.
Cesar Muroya created a unique editing technique to extract the essence of the game without losing the drama involved. Contextual information is also an innovation appreciated by viewers.
This format is not intended to substitute the full version but rather to make snooker more accessible to new fans. The fluency and atmosphere of the game stay in a shorter length video, allowing even experienced fans to enjoy snooker at any time.
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Thanks to Boutros Boutros Boutros Ghali for suggesting this intriguing frame.
Cheers buddy. Good edit and annotations for clarification. The title is a bit boring though, I'm sure "16 red balls clearance" would generate some more views. :)
I know it's not the best title, but I didn't want to spoil the intrigue by revealing the origin of the incident.
Yeah I thought that was the reason. 147+ break attempt would have been a good title, but it wouldn't be accurate.. Oh well, with so many games televised nowadays I'm sure we will see someone make that historical feat one day! I'm still gutted by Liang Wenbo missing the last black to make that historical double maximum break in the same game! :) Wendy Jans also had a good attempt at becoming the first woman to make a televised maximum break.
What Is the song played at the end mate
@@dannyjohnson8662 It's called "To Weather a Storm" from the YT library.
7:43 “do it then and I’ll work it out” 🤣
I don't see the big fuss in some of the comments. He is genuinely confused at how the score is so is Scott. And then he asked if the top 147 prize is still available even tho not a traditional way of making it. They are playing for cash so he needs to know this before he takes his next shot. Anyways its just a lapse in concentration and he said nothing wrong to anyone at all just was querying the score....
I've only just started watching snooker on RUclips. I spotted the free eight points at the start. The four blues ( negating the free eight points ) would have made for an interesting 147. Given that there was a question as to how the prize money would be awarded, Selby was being quite the gentleman by sinking a blue to avoid controversy. If no one had already scored a maximum in the tournament, I'd say go for it. However, I wouldn't want to be the guy to take prize money from someone else on a technicality. However (again), if there was a chance for 148 or higher, go for it.
He wasn't just correcting the score. He told the referee in an abrupt manner that he was wrong. After being proved that the referee was indeed correct he offered no apology.
@@ebojfmdboojoh4023 he acknowledged that the referee was right....are you that sensitive that you need to hear an apology lol
@@NothingSuitsMeLikeASuit but I thought snooker is gentleman sport. So he should apologised
"If I go all blacks now and make a 147?" "Then do it then" haha
With a 147 with free ball, he would have shared the highest break prize of the tournament with Ronnie and Bingham, but not maximum break prize.
The chinese can be beaten at snooker but not at math
CHB Trust maths*
@@garythornton680 Both "math" and "maths" are abbreviations for the word "mathematics".
If you want to be pedantic please educate yourself before commenting.
@@chbtrust8715its maths not math.Math sounds stupid.
@@jammy2858 Math is an Americanism, they have to change everything around.
Lol true
This video should be renamed "Selby has a bad memory, blames ref, then doesn't apologise to him".
Came for controversy, stayed for the tune at the end. Tune!
The debate was much more entertaining than the actual game !
Sane person: "do it, and we'll work it out" *smiles*
7:48
‘’Well do it! - and then I’ll work it out........’’
This is why we love snooker. You do get a lot of wierd and wonderful incidents that go on almost from nowhere. Amazing what 22 balls on a green table can do to people.
I wish had that many balls.
The title is incorrect, it should read “Mark Selby & Scott Donaldson VS. Referees
We came to watch snooker, we left seeing math!
Maths
jammy2858 not everyone’s from the uk
MoonBread But English came from the UK.
Snooker is all about math(s), whether rules, scores or angles, and skill which involves another kind : Time.
@@Zkkr429 well, not technically UK. More specifically England.
With the free ball there are 16 reds available
Up to the where he started arguing he pot
1 free ball + black = 8
4 reds with 4 blues = 24
4 reds 4 blacks = 32
1 red = 1
And that's when he paused. The break up to that point is correct 65. Selby confused himself because for one he didn't know how many blues he had potted..he kept saying 2. Where as he had potted 4. And he didn't realise that 147 with 16 reds on table isn't a maximum. 155 would be. The 4 blues he potted accounts for the difference of 8 points. This should make it clearer.
No, the 2 fouls at the beginning made it 8 then he potted the free ball cause that 1 so it totals to 9, so the referee is 8 points behind everything
Xd
I think this is hilarious -- all the scoring possibilities and confusion. But both players seem to have really enjoyed the intrigue
Rest in Peace Willie Thorne, who passed away today 17/6/20
"Thorne was diagnosed with leukaemia in March and was taken to hospital in Spain last week with dangerously low blood pressure.
Willie went into septic shock and was not responding to any treatment so the decision was made by the hospital to turn off the machines"
Former world champion Dennis Taylor, a long-standing colleague of Thorne in the commentary box, said they had "laughed our way around the world for 45 years", adding: "RIP Great One. That was my name for him. The Great WT. Lots of love to his family."
RIP The GREAT Willie Thorne
Floydrush2112 Thanks for posting I never knew. And didn’t catch the news. RIP WT
@@game4alaughman Your welcome.
I actually don’t watch snooker just pool and Is WT the ref or the other player ?
Thorne was a big fan of Selby. Both due to the fact that both come from Leicester.
Selby didn't even apologize to the poor ref who was right
Broooo I was expecting for this videooo, thank you very much 🙏🙏🙏 I saw it before but just as an argue between refs and player. I didn't know what was about.
Glad you liked it
I’m still confused but more so about where did the music come from at the end
Lesson to be learnt, let the players play and the refs ref
How strange that no apology is offered to the ref and the scoring team. Selby shows such a lack of class here.
the idiot forgot he got 4 points for the miss. What a douche.
@@timq6224 you are
but showed class for not taking 147
Ur fucking damn right
Only here? He’s bullshit all around.
Selby didnt even apologise to the ref for making him look like a fool, when it was Selby himself who got it wrong.
Agree with you Daniel although he was likely to be a little angry at the refs lack of help and knowledge of what the issue might have been.
@@da_great_mogul It was most likely just a language barrier tbh and why should selby apologize lol it wasnt rude, everyone was just confused
You don’t know what happened after that- he may have apologised off camera.
@@NothingSuitsMeLikeASuit well he questioned the referees judgement and held the game up because of his distrust.
@@TwistedSoul2002 He MAY have off camera... but humiliating the referee in full view of all the audience WAS on camera. Selby was out of order.
Dude, you started with a free ball, that's why you can still reach 147 after potting 4 blues.
I do love the sportsmanship from both players, neither is trying to argue to get the best personal result, they're both trying to understand what's happening, and make sure the numbers are actually correct, however that works out.
Any one above 15 years old, are like that. If not... You might be russian or arabic.
@@andersnielsen6044 Or any random soccer player.
@@ArumesYT "any random soccer player" are backed by the oligarchs or islamic state.
Steve A take that silly flag down & turn off your TV as its a fake war you silly buffoon
In my opinion regardless of the 147 scoreline, if a player used a color ball (except black) to re-position his cue ball for red, maximum break does not count. Its how the maximum of 147 is played and not whatever numbers above 147 is achieved.
I agree. It isn't the score, it's the perfect frame that counts as far I'm concerned.
Can you explain what does reposition cue ball except for read means?
@@harmanfarwah3208 He means how it was a free ball. The black was in essence a red and then he positioned himself to pot the black again after. Think that's what he means
But that's just your opinion. I think a £42000 prize should not be based on opinion, but on the rules. If the rule states that you get the prize for a maximum break, then you simply can't hit anything but black. But if the rule says you need to get 147, then it doesn't matter how you get there.
in this frame's case , 147 is not the maximum break (it is 155 ) so should not count- Selby was being a bit of a dick (rarely for him as he is actually nice ) after getting embarrassed getting the score wrong
I’m not going to criticise Selby (or Donaldson for that matter) for getting it wrong. It was a very unusual situation that we rarely ever see, and it’s easy to see why he made a mistake. But I think he should have apologised to the referee and the scorekeeper and acknowledge his mistake. Maybe he apologised off camera after the frame or even after the match. At least I’d like to think so. Selby always struck me as one of the good guys.
Yes, a public apology would have gone down well.
Someone can explain to me what the incident was because until now I am beginning to understand this game !!!Please someone tell me what album sounds at the end !!! please!!!
I guess Mark will never get the countdown gig when Rachel Riley gets bored 😂
Very poor show not to apologize to the ref after getting it completely wrong.
How do you know he didn't?
@@MWsamui I can only go on what my eyes tell me and my ears hear. Maybe he did very quietly when no one was watching.
@@timwalker2458 Or after the video stopped or after the match? I know that's too outrageous to comprehend. It's not like he was trying to humiliate the ref it was a genuine mistake.
@@MWsamui If you are having a go at the ref during the match then you should apologise during the match.
@@timwalker2458 he wasn't having a go though was he, he was questioning whether the score was correct which he had every right to do. It was quite a unique situation which had a lot of them confused. Stop being so pedantic, I'm sure the ref was fine.
It's reassuring when the pros and the ref are as confused about snooker as I am.
It's probably the most exciting frame Mark has ever played.
Thanks for the nice vid.
Just wondering what song is on the soundtrack at the end of the video?
Thanks again
It's called "To weather a storm" from the YT library.
Well, it doesent get more thrilling than this!
There oughtn't have been any controversy if he had have made a 147 break, it's not a maximum. If you argue it is because of the number of points then you would be penalizing a player for making a similar break to this, but instead of taking 4 blues only taking 3 and ending with a 149. It does bring up an interesting question as to whether a 155 would be considered a maximum though, I'd argue that it should. As well as the fact that it would be legitimately more difficult to achieve just by virtue of the 2 extra pots, it is also legitimately the highest possible break in the game.
One possible argument against might be the increased fortune involved in beginning the break from a free ball position, but all you're really saying is it's slightly more fortunate than a normal maximum starting from a position where the black is available and attainable from the first shot.
Agreed.
100% right and the prize money in the world championship should be taken to £155.000 that would be exiting it would be good to watch
147 is the maximum because it's the most a player can achieve unassisted by opponent errors
I agree, a prize for maximum break should be awarded for a player who makes the highest possible break. If a free ball is given, it should be 155, otherwise 147.
@@DocIdaho Its not though, 147 is the maximum unassisted by opponent errors, 155 is the maximum break possible with no points from the opponent. 155 is the maximum end off. Otherwise you can say, 10 is the maximum possible break and add lots of reasons why. The maximum possible is one number and that is the maximum possible, it is 155 is a legit break of 155 and therefore 155 is the maximum possible break to get. Simples
1hr arguing about he only went for 2 blue, when he'd taken 4 blues. LOL!
Exactly, Selby was implying the referee had miscounted somewhere during the break, when in fact he was the one wrong... he claimed he'd potted TWO blues in the break, when in fact he'd potted FOUR blues. He should have had the decency to apologise to the referee after humiliating him in front of everybody. But he carried on instead trying for a 147 (by default it would have been).
Selby came across as a dick here. Probably accurate.
Interesting
On the rare occasion that i see someone getting a free ball before anything has been potted i always scream "155!!!" inside my head :D
Surprisingly, that possibility never crossed Selby and Donaldson's mind.
Snooker, my dad plays. He played against Ron Sullivan once. Don't know which won, but he's got a photo of them both. True friendship
I guess Ronnie won😆
my dad also fight ronnie o sullivan too.. my dad won.. but they fight in a bar.. coz ronnie drunk n tke other seat
6:56 Selby's blues.
That was interesting - thanks
I also enjoy your choice to use "To Weather A Storm" again.
So that's the 2nd televised 16 red clearance ever, the first one was Steve James in the 1990 WC.
Terrible concentration on Selby's part, forgot about the free ball he potted and then thought he only potted 2 blues instead of 4, he had a chance to beat a 147.
Thanks for the info, I just watched that 16 red balls clearance from 1990. I'm surprised that Selby didn't think/care about this unique chance from the beginning, even if he was losing by a frame. Especially since he has already won most tournaments and made multiple maximum breaks. I'm sure Ronnie would have gone for it!
Does that mean that he would have taken the highest break prize away from o Sullivan and Bingham but not the maximum prize :D ? If you think about it with a free ball the maximum break can only be 155 because it's the maximum points available in that moment...right? Unless we are talking about THE maximum that would be 147 but that's going down a different line of thinking ...
@@EnricoFantini i saw ronnie vs williams years ago in the sky sports premier league fluff a chance of a break higher then 147, i remember he looked at the scoreboard half way through the break and laughed with astonishment, realised what was going onthen missed couple shots later.
Jong higgins has also 16 red clearance !
Surely that can’t be correct?! Surely this feat has been achieved way more times than that?
Selby saying Ronnie was disrespectful to him in this year's WC semi-final And he does things like this and taking 5+ mins to play a shot. What a joker.
Yes Ronnie was very disrespectful being forced to play hit and hope shots out of a Snooker despite the fact everyone plays hit and hope sometimes as there is no obvious escape
“jester from Leicester” indeed
He was crying that why he said hit well they say if u can’t hack it then don’t take it
Not being funny but Ronnie is a disrespectful prick just not on that occasion.
Hmmmm i cant wait for the day that Ronnie is rude to het another ref....... and the ref knocks him out!
Whats the song at the end?
A touch of arrogance on Selby's part. Not good to see. At the very least he should have apologised to the Ref. He had full control of the frame, whats his problem. It would have served him right if he had missed his next ball after all of the fuss
Rest in peace Willie Thorne
1954-2020
I don't think he's resting, mate 🤷♂️
Old Willie Thorne ‘is ‘airs all gorn. So’s the rest of him.
The music coming in just when it did is absolute genius. 🎱 🏆
"To weather a storm" it's the music at the end
Same music as ThatChapter... Almost expected a very different ending haha
did they edit out the bit where he apologised?
I can't believe they couldn't remember starting with free ball black🤦♂️
the idiot forgot he got 4 points for the miss. What a douche.
@@timq6224 you are
I didn't see either players apologize to the referee for calling him out
Not only he forgot about the free ball but TWO extra blues as well. That's total of 3 signs of alzheimer disease.
😆 🤣 😂
Selby asks if he scores 147 would it count as a maximum break and the answer from the ref should have been no. if you have the chance to pot 16 reds 16 blacks and the colours then a 155 is the maximum you can score.
This circus and no apology after repeatingly telling them they are wrong. Not cool
It's not about "147" , it's about "Maximum" , pot the possible maximum points, in this case it counts only if Selby potted all blacks instead of 2 blues. Why so hard to understand?
I cant believe Selby has the guts to even ask.
So it has to be clarified if the extra-money in a tournament is for a "maximum brake = only black and reds" or for the highest reached points. They can be higher due to snookers/faults!
It is always for the highest break, not points scored, and there is usually an additional prize when the highest break is a maximum. Selby asked the ref because he had a chance to make a break of 147 with 16 reds (free ball is an extra red), 4 blues and 12 blacks. But the initial 8 penalty points are irrelevant here.
¿que fue lo que paso ahi tocayo? :)
Double checking always is the best. He made sure that he was clear.
What's the music at the end?
"To Weather a Storm" from the YT library.
"The score is wrong, it should be X."
"No Sir"
"Oh ok but wait the score is wrong, it should be Y."
"No Sir"
"Oh ok but will I get my money?"
If Selby had cleared to make a 147, I believe he'd have shared the high break prize, but not shared any prize for a maximum. Tournaments normally stipulate a prize for a "maximum", not a 147.
Fascinating incident. I do wonder how they would have dealt with the 3rd issue, had he actually tried to go for all blacks and succeeded, because the refs didn't actually have an answer for that. They just basically said, keep playing and we'll see what happens, but I don't think they knew themselves. Also, I agree that Selby didn't need to apologise to the Chinese ref. Nobody did anything wrong. Selby was confused and asked for explanation... after he received it, he didn't argue or question it, he accepted it straightaway. So he wasn't being rude. He was doing his job, and so were the refs. Some people in the comments clearly don't know anything about snooker
They did NOT just ask for an explanation. Both players blatantly said that the ref was wrong. When the ref asked if his number was right, they said "IT CAN'T BE". That's very different from saying"we don't think so". Both players automatically blame the ref instead of considering the option that THEY might be wrong and he might be right.
It's not a maximum because a maximum is all blacks with all the reds, the free ball and colour as well as any penalty points before the break starts doesn't count.
@@notrecyborg5492 It would in a ‘highest break’ prize which is different to a ‘147’ or ‘Maximum’ prize.
As if an Asian referee would mess up when math was involved lol.
👍 Merci pour la vidéo 😉
What is the music title?
It's called "To Weather a Storm" from the YT library.
Thanks again cesar for a great upload. Really enjoyed this and well done the officials
Thank you. Glad you enjoy it.
I suspect if he had made a 147 from the 16 reds (or higher), they'd probably have chucked him something.
@@yamyite 155 actually
in a single break run, one can only be awarded free ball once to account for the 16 reds. Higher than 16 reds you need another "free-ball foul" from the opponent. 155 is the highest possible maximum break. only 147 possible then because 4 blues were potted, so couldn't get higher than 147 either. They should honour him the to share the highest break price money for 147, but then the maximum break price was not for him because he had the chance of making 155 but he potted 4 blues. The difficulty of "potting only blacks" followed by all the reds should surpass the potting of any other colours.
Selby should be apologising to the referee, at the very least. This is a serious lack of class.
How is it a lack of class? I think it would show less character if he'd just ignored what he thought was scoring error because it was to his benefit.
My head hurts 😭
Whats the music used in this???
It's called "To Weather a Storm" from the YT library.
@@CesarMuroya
Thank you! 😊👍😜
กรณีนี้กรรมการขานคะแนนถูกต้องแล้วครับ.. แต่เซลบี้เรื่องมากเอง ก็ตบให้มันขาดๆไปก็จบแล้ว จะมางงอะไรกับคะแนนไม่ทราบครับผม
These two bozos set the reputation of British education back by at least 20 years.
Just a momentary lack of whatever. Still the best comment though! XD
I think you'll find its called "making a mistake". Is that something you've never done?
@@CB-xr1eg Yes, but I apologise when I do because my parents taught me properly.
We could set it back by 100 years and still wouldn't have a kid run into a British school with an AR-15
@@xlLEWISlx savage!!
Scores can be adjusted at any time but a shot or four missed or ball incorrectly spotted ect is condoned after the next shot is played.
He should have still tried for the 147, even if it wouldn't qualify for a share of the prize, it would still have made an interesting story to tell. The frame was won at that point anyway.
I understand the confusion but just put your hand up and say sorry. Bad form, hope the ref was waiting for them outside with his bowler hat.
If the player thinks there is an issue with the scoring, he is entitled to investigate. I'm not a Selby fan but even his opponent was in agreement.
Not even an apology to ref, what a knob head.
Why is he confused. The ref was spot on, mark Selby slowing down play again! I watched and counted he's on 65!
how hard can it be to play the frame back x4 speed on the refs monitor
I’d watch if he had a reality tv show. Seems theres never a dull moment in his family
Obviously disrespectful to me and the game - Mark Selby
A very curious situation.
A quick apology to the ref wouldn't have gone amiss.
There is no definition of a 'maximum' break or mention of a 147 in the official rules:
www.wpbsa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/WPBSA-Snooker-and-Billiards-Rules-25.11.2019.pdf
so what happens would seem to be down to the individual tournament and it's organisers
A maximum must include:
1- a total table clearance
2 - all reds followed by blacks
3 - all the colors
Therefore a maximum break will always be 147, or 155 with a free ball. Nothing in between .
Presumably if the tournament organiser is offering prizes, they will define what maximum/high break is for that competition.
@@chuckjones1358 That's the "Chuck Jones" definition !
@@nakkadu You'd think they should/would do but I suspect they probably often don't !
@@adrianwright8685 maybe not lol....but my point was it's up to the guys offering the prize to define what a maximum/high break is in any given comp.
Buyer cost instead stake experimental fold count carry statue correlation output
Mark Selby is such a gentleman
I hope Selby apologised after the fact. Sometimes you can be so sure you're right, you miss it entirely.
What was this nice music at the end of the video?
It's "To weather a storm" from the YT library.
I'm realy confused here. So referree was correct about the score and maximum would have been 147 resuming after that incident at break of 65. The players were expecting 69 and 151 respectively. So how come after Selby even potted another blue at 8:11, final score was 149?
А что случилось ?
I only come here for the music 😉
What is that music?
@@sdrtcacgnrjrc The sound of balls being potted.
@@3009haikal a real man wouldn't want to hear sound of BALLS.
Are the players considering the free ball? As it was technically a free 8 points. So a 147 or above is available as there was 155 when he started the break due to the free ball.
They just got confused is all
Love Brendan Moore's attitude to the situation... "well do it and we'll work it out". Selby can't have been that bothered if he didn't go for all blacks lol
Bloody hell. My heads hurting. Too much math!!!!
Think the music outro was better then the game lol, if anyone or the producer of this video let me know that be great, almost blues being in a minor key. I'm kind of a musician so I like it. Also love snooker well some times highest brake only 68
It's called "To Weather a Storm" from the YT library.
@@CesarMuroya Thank you buddy, found it now :) kinda catchy. Don't know if your watching the world snooker finals but Ronnie has got this 6 titles surely but stranger things have happened, so can't write out Wilson yet.
Пжл. Объясните что произошло?
На момент начала серии у Селби было 8 очков на двух фолах. Первым шаром в серии был свободный. Селби это забыл, поэтому начал думать, что где-то ошибка. Судья пояснил про свободный шар. Селби продолжил сомневаться, так как думал, что забил только 2 синих. На самом деле их было 4. Они это выяснили у экрана. Третий вопрос был будет считаться ли это как 147. Ответом было что-то типа "сделай это сначала, а там разберемся"
Ignoring the guy who said what about the 4 for the foul (doesn't count towards the break) There are 2 fouls at the start of the match so Selby is 8-0 before he takes the free ball. He's potted 16 reds including the free ball(16) 4 blues(20) 12 blacks(84)then cleared the colours(27). That's 147 but he's given 141 with a total of 149. We're 6 points light here that's a 147 even with the 4 blues would have been a 155 if he had taken all blacks rather than the 4 blues. Watched this frame by frame can't spot the error but maths says different
Where's the apology mark Selby??
Disgusting attitude...
At 10:15 I'm surprised that Selby didn't complain about someone in the audience playing a guitar!
good pick ...
Where they seriously argueing with a chinese ref about math????