Confronting Religious Trauma | Chosen Family Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- This week, Mak confronts her fear of flying and is bullied into doing merch. Alayna has a realization about her hobbies and Ashley continues to be filled with eggs. A listener asks: How do I overcome internalized homophobia from religion?
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Dad getting on to son about the merch was actually just good marketing because Mak-truthers are now going to buy the merch no matter what it looks like. 😂
Alayna's "still?" when ashley called whgs excellent made me burst out laughing on the train LOL
Team Mak. I understand not wanting to mess things up and it creating a lot of anxiety
It’s not maks fault she’s not as busy as mom and pop. You guys should all put in energy for the production of merch. Let mak come up with the silly ideas and mom and pop should align it up to where mak can already have the correct plug to create. Especially if pops already making merch for pops other job :)
Mak, if you don’t go with that designer Alayna sent you, I literally went to school for design / branding / graphics / etc, and I’ve been watching the podcast since the very beginning (and all of y’all individually before that). I would LOVE to design your merch.
here to support you ✌🏻
🙌🙌
*low whistle blow* "Im gonna make a facial expressions in solidarity with Mak... but Im not gonna verbally disagree" My new phrase with any of my friends when they make bad decisions
Ashley's forbidden podcast has helped me tremendously with religion based shame surrounding my sexuality and having sex. I still have a lot of work to do but pursuing media that talks about queer sex openly is a big step forward.
Thank you for sharing that! I'm so glad it was helpful.
I know it's easier said than done but please try and never feel shame about sexuality or sex in general. Think about it like this... We're all just animals with morals. Don't cross religion and sexuality like ever. Being a good kind loving person is way more important than your sexuality. As long as nobody's getting hurt it's completely ok to experience things. Think about all the so called Christians in this country and how they use the Bible or religion to cause harm. In God's eyes what they're doing is probably one of the worst sins ever. These poor ignorant people have no idea they're more sinful than any queer person.
yes me too!! it helped me get over the taboo of talking about sex too b/c growing up catholic it was just like don’t do it, don’t talk about it
This episode truly made me realize how abnormally rejection sensitive I am. Seeing Mak barely react emotionally to the merch discussion genuinely surprised me so much
I don’t think you’re rejection sensitive. That conversation reminded me of some of my most toxic workplaces, where a struggling person would be given responsibilities and assurance without support, and than would be reprimanded and humiliated for making mistakes.
This was definitely an off-camera conversation.
@@80islandiarelax. They were joking and razzing each other. Close friends do this because they trust each other to not hurt each other
@@Nevekoehhhh Ashley has a heavy ass hand. Are they partners or is she their boss? Mak was literally trying to voice that she doesn't know what to do and she got talked over.
@@B2Rolandyou know they make fun of comments like these on the pod for a reason, right?
Edit: ah, I see. You tend to comment negatively toward Ashley in general. Well, that explains that.
@@Neveko I think the underlying point here is that this podcast is a business, and the three women are in a business partnership. They may be friends as well, but this podcast is a job and a workplace of sorts.
Lol im here for alayna actually embracing her introvertedness and learning the joy of cancelling plans. The feeling of dreading a full day and then just saying fuck it to some superfluous event or something is such an incredible relief.
ahh that was me who asked that question!!! thank you so much for answering
we are all rooting for you babe!!❤
sending love! 💕
hey! i've also struggled with religious shame regarding my sexuality, and i can confirm that mak's advice works (at least for me, it has)
there are plenty of youtube channels of people who have deconstructed and oftentimes have videos talking about queerness, some are no longer religious, others still are, so you can find whatever suits you best.
i hope this is helpful, we're all rooting for you! 💚
❤❤❤
as someone who has gone/is going through similar struggles. we're here for you ❤ and you are loved
I really appreciate the conversation at the beginning about straight women who have chosen to remain childless. It’s a lifestyle choice, and the people on the outside could never know what economical, psychological, emotional factors drove a person to make that choice 👏👏👏❤
Ashley, the term 'titrate' as Alayna used it actually describes exactly what you are doing with your hormones right now: continuously measuring your hormonal parameters and immediately adjusting the dosage.
The word 'titration' also describes a method of quantitative analysis in chemistry. For example, if you want to determine the concentration of an acidic solution: First, you add a few drops of a pH indicator substance such as phenolphthalein, which changes from colorless to pink at pH 7, and then, under constant stirring, you ~titrate~ the acidic solution drop by drop with an alkaline solution of known concentration. When equilibrium (pH 7) is reached the solution turns pink and no further drops should be added. Then, from the volume of the alkaline solution of known concentration used to turn the acidic solution pink, you can calculate the unknown concentration of the acidic solution. 🤓 Since it has been more than 10 years since I learned this at uni, my fellow bio/chem boys and girlies are welcome to add and correct 😅
That was awesome insight from Mak with regard to religious guilt and shame.
I wanted to add that cult recovery resources (books, podcasts, documentaries), and knowing the psychology that religious groups use to maintain power and control, can be helpful to understand that the guilt/shame is by design and not your fault. This advice is for people who have exited or are looking to exit religions.
Seconded! Those kinds of resources are great for giving you lightbulb unlearning moments
Any recommendations?
@@kerryknox5199 The podcast A Little Bit Culty, hosted by two ex-NXIVM members, is a good starting place. They do interviews with various cult survivors, including people formerly involved with fundamentalist religions. They also keep current on the various documentaries coming out, and sometimes interview subjects and filmmakers.
There’s a recent episode of A Little Bit Culty called “Wise Jezebel: Dr. Laura Anderson on When Religion Hurts” that I highly recommend.
As for understanding high-control dynamics in general, Dr. Janja Lalich’s book Take Back Your Life is one of the best books out there.
Mak’s reaction to the merch stuff was relatable since I’m sensitive too. I appreciate how mom and dad were motivating but kind and checked in. I loved seeing Alayna have more energy and joy 🌸
“I won’t get mad, I’ll just seethe” is such a dad thing to say 😹
MAK!! The train ride from LA to Vancouver is easy even though it's longer!
Good point! I think that would be a great option.
I've said it here before and I'll say it again: In Christianity, there are theologians who argue that queerness is the ultimate fulfillment of their faith, there are churches who marry queer couples and go to pride parades and fly rainbow flags and apologise for the harm they caused in the past and there are religious spaces, especially for young people, that feel like the most safe spaces to be queer. I firmly believe that those embody the ideals of Christianity of unconditional love and caring for the outcasts way better than any church that argues for hatred and exclusion of anyone. I believe that God and Jesus and definitely the Holy Spirit would agree. I hope that helps at least someone who has been taught that it is a religion or a God who is rejecting them and not a homophobic or transphobic culture or specific person.
Hey, deconstructed catholic here! I was in a similar place around being sexual alongside religious guilt/shame. I highly recommend finding the deconstruction community online and listen to other people's stories. It helped me to learn about my body from a medical perspective, it helped to step back and realize that religion was designed to control me, and it helped to learn that the majority of our choices and actions are morally neutral! I had to relearn what morality actually meant (does this action hurt or benefit myself/others?) and realize that we put way too much emphasis on calling everything morally good or bad. That's not the case at all!It took me a while to fully get past my hang-ups, but it's possible to get there. Also, when picking long term partners, they should be understanding of your feelings and help you along your journey. If they poke, prod and add to the guilt, they are not healthy for you.
That was absolutely great advice from mak about religious trauma. My religious trauma from catholism was very much helped by seeing people in traditional churches being welcoming, even though I am very much an atheist.
Mak's talk about her religious trauma and getting over it nearly broke me, man
This was the most vicious I have ever seen Ms. Joy. Outstanding 😂. I truly LOVE your interactions with one another. It is like looking at family members sitting around the living room. Alayna does look rested and being rested appears she is so relaxed that the TRUTH is her Superpower. Great episode. Keep it PEOPLE.
Love the podcast and always will. Teeny tiny thought - the conversation with Mak felt very confrontational and awkward to watch. We know your true feelings and friendship dynamic, but in the future, I feel like keeping similar situations off the pod would be a good idea
Agreed!
Mom doing facial expressions in support of baby while not verbally disagreeing with dad... Queen move!
Interior design lights me up like no other. If you are a person who experiences joy and gets fulfillment by means of visual stimulation then interior design is a great pursuit for you!!
i am so glad alayna explained the difference between guilt and shame because that was such a revelation to me, like it seemed to be for ashley as well
These convos are sooo amazing! I have two kids with a man who decided that it was a good idea to become an abusive piece of shit and I had several miscarriages to get to the state of having the two children I have, and nobody talks about things like struggle to conceive miscarriages, or any of that people get really uncomfortable when you have a miscarriage if you want to talk about it. Coming out of an evangelical Christian space I can tell you the fem-straights are not OK because none of this shit has talked about. I love that I found a queer community who talks about it as a queer woman coming out of that space it’s nice to know I’m not crazy think all of it should be talked about.
@Chosen Family Podcast - merch wishlist:
Bubble gum trading cards of every episode thumbnail with title overlay.
Apple podcast thumbnail magnets, bumper stickers, beanie.
Sticker sets of one-liners.
That is all. Love you guys. You make my heart laugh. Thank you. 😊
Alayna saying “HP, up!” Scratched an itch I didn’t know I had and I just love every inch of this podcast 😻😻
Hey Ashley. FYI, the original texts of the Bible are in Hebrew, Aramaic (Old Testament), and Greek. ❤
“Can I drive there?” Most Missourian and midwestern thing to say
The fact she meant driving the ENTIRETY OF THE WEST COAST sent me. Get on a plane dummy
ashley getting her world absolutely rocked in 46:16 sent me
Wow the timing of Mak’s advice at the end for me was wild. Last night I saw an episode of queer eye that featured a pastor who validated that it’s okay to be gay. And I didn’t realize until then how healing it was for me to hear that, even though I no longer subscribe to the religion I grew up with. Completely agree with her advice with how helpful that can be!
Edit: finished the podcast and now I wonder if Alayna saw the same episode I did 😂 Because it hit me in the same way!!
I can't get over how FANTASTIC of a therapist Alayna is going to be. It's just so clear when I hear her speak that she's going to be INCREDIBLE.
Nice episode and thanks for talking openly about so many things!
46:13 I just got chills at that shame VS guilt definition
I am a femme AFAB nonbinary person dating a cishet man and we are literally about to have this conversation about kids the next time we see each other and it's scary! I dunno if I want to carry them but I do know I 100% want to adopt and if he's not into that it's gonna be over ;-; It's a little bit frustrating because neither of us even knows we're fertile regardless. I hope it goes well, wish me luck✨
My wife and I got pregnant (she carried) through IVF after 3 years of trying both at home and through IUI. Always happy to chat if anyone is looking for someone to talk to! We recorded the first year of our journey but stopped after multiple failed attempts, sadly, but we still love to share our experiences.
Just writing in to say that I'm a huge fan, been following y'all for forever and I'm a designer who would love to create some merch! Also, no pressure, but I couldn't not let y'all know after seeing the look in Mak's eyes during that bit of the convo! 😅 Also, snaps for Alayna for cancelling plans and enjoying your weekend!!! Setting boundaries is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier said then done! ❤
I'm literally so obsessed with Mak's sweatshirt. The color is gorgeous and is super flattering to Mak's coloring. Even the holes in the collar. It looks so good.
Not Mak being Ellie (from TLOU2) with the trading cards. Lol. Not her gf kinda looking like Dina too. Cosplay for days ❤
Mak is too short though
@@aliameth4386 Too short? For what? Lol.
Ellie and Mak are basically the same height (assuming the super creepy stats online that just came up are remotely accurate) and she's definitely taller than her girl irl, like Ellie & Dina. They also have *that* vibe. Idk exactly what it is, but I've noted the resemblance ever since I saw her on RUclips several years back. She even made a YT video about it. Lol.
What is even too short anyway?
Mak has video's about her cosplaying Eli on her channel.
@@JanneBernards yeah, it was cool. I did actually note this above 'she even made a YT video about it.', however I understand it's easy enough to miss in a comment section. Thanks though. Can never get enough Ellie tbh. Looking forward to TLOU3.
And Jewish! (Dina and gf, that is)
Mak you got this. Actually out of the three of you i trust you the most to get that merch made and make it Maktastic!! Its gonna be great 👍
Mak is not prepared for the dubloon vibes of the toonie, is she
A toonie is very much a doubloon! Good call :) 🇨🇦
Ashley, Hormones are a helluva drug, if you sniff the head of a newborn baby, your body and mind will react in many ways lactating and ovulating is only a few of them, nesting behaviour is another, if you don't stop the hormones you will start quilting and drying flowers for arrangements...
Regarding "too tiny and fragile to carry a baby", fuck that, my ex was very, very tiny and delicate, she gave birt to two +nine pound babies.
The female body is incredible
I booted the episode, but then started cooking dinner and needed my phone to look up the recipe, so I switched to Spotify audio version of the podcast. Now coming back so the algorithm sees I've finished the video. Funny and heartwarming both times xD
The bit they played out at the end was great 😂 and Mak’s last joke hit so well. Love y’all!
Ashley, yes, I am so glad you are sharing your egg freezing journey. I had sex ed 7 times, including at the collegiate level, and never once did they mention how IVF or egg freezing works. Never once did they mention how queer people can make babies. So I truly, truly, from the bottom of my heart, appreciate you sharing about this. I am learning so much valuable information. Of course you are not obligated to share anything about this. It's not your responsibility. But I want to say that I do really appreciate all that I am learning from you. It does make me feel less alone.
Mak, you can do it! We love you and believe in you! ❤❤❤
I love self confident Ashley! It's so inspiring! Thank you!
WAAAHHHH My favorite day of the week!!😍😍😁💜💜💜 Sending so much love around all of you!!!❤
Mak's advice to the pod question was fantastic. I'll need to remember that in case it comes up with friends or other people I know
This is my favorite episode so far, loved the energy and the jokes!!
Hi Mak I used to be too afraid to get on a plane but I got a prescription for beta blockers and they changed my life. They block the physical signs of anxiety like heart racing and you only take before scary occasions.
Whoa Ashley is gonna be in AB tomorrow :) hope you two have fun!;
As a bisexual woman who doesn’t want kids I do feel guilty about not wanting to have/carry children. There’s partner guilt and then there’s the random shame from friends/family when I say that I have no intention of having children. I think a lot of moms/women can not fathom the idea of another woman not wanting a child. And regardless of my partner ‘accepting’ I still think that he hopes I’ll change my mind some day.
Mak, you know we’re gonna love the merch no matter what, right? And anyway don’t worry about it being “bad” like Ashley is always saying when you first start doing something you’re gonna be bad at it, but without being bad at it first you’re not gonna be able to be amazing later! Good luck!
Alayna looks adorable in the sweater and scrunchie
I have a head canon that Ashley is actually Mak’s step dad because Mak’s bio father is Max Sweeney, from L Word.
I don't see that at all.
I see it
If it's helpful for Mak, I can rewatch all the episodes of the podcast looking for every phrase that they say that could be use in merch
I also find that there are differences depending on the social circle: In my friend circle it's kinda obvious that kids etc. are talked about early on in the relationship. And then I remember the pastor who married us, who was a marriage counselor, telling us that he counseled so many couples who YEARS into marriage had issues come up because one partner wanted kids, the other didn't and they had never talked about it before - and they were MARRIED?!?! That just blows my mind; up to that point I'd always thought that the big life goals are obviously a topic of discussion before things get serious (whether that be marriage, sex, moving in, ....) just because?
Anyways, that's my two cents on the topic. :D
And now I've listened to more nuances; I definitely think Alayna hit the bull's eye!
There absolutely are differences!
Im late to this catching up love u guys ❤ ashley having a decorating hobby love to see it 👏
My church in Macon Georgia is LGBTQ+ accepting and inclusive. There are a lot of us allies in the church, but completely understand if someone has been hurt too much to go to church again. But for those who want to keep their religion, there are welcoming and safe spaces out there - and if none are geographically close, there are many who have online services and are active on social media.
Loved it when each of you lit up thinking about your honeys! 🥰🥰🥰
My bestie and I were on a float trip last year and she was done breast feeding. Heard a baby crying in the dead of night and started lactating! Crazy!
Dad asking what titrate meant was actually adorable
Flimsy Bits merch, please. Thanks.
Love it always thanks you guys
just here to say that an LA-Vancouver road trip would not only be beautiful and only 2-3 days, but also lower emission if you actually just want to not fly :) There's also a train, can do work with a view :)
So with Alayna on this one.
I would love to never walk into an Ikea or Costco again in my life.
I hate Ikea products which helps.
Meatballs are not nice.
Laughed a lot this episode ty i needed it lol
The guy who did my epidural when I gave birth was HIGH AS A KITE! My husband used to have a probkem with selfmedicating his ADHD when he was younger, at the 3 day labor he was high as a kite on ritalin of cours so he could stay present with me. Well, like recognoses like. He saied the anesteologist and him made eyecontact and blth instantly recognised they where bothe on medication 😅 and aparently they had a whole staire off battle behinde my back esentialy communicating that my husband was protective over me and that dude did a seringe lid flick trick to impress him and make sure he trusted him to do his job 😂 he still had to do it twice and it was the worst expirience of my life. But omg, yes anestiologist are druggy and strange...
Wanna talk to ex Christian, 33 yr old queer mom, who just came out for the last time so loudly I’ve been excommunicated and I’ll talk if you wanna hear a train wreck for the youngins who fear coming out.. I urge all of you, be yourselves as early as possible and everywhere ❤
For Mak, trip to Vancouvert from LA is 20h drive with such a beautyfull road to go on, (could be tricky in winter at some point) but a nice car trip, just for you to know ;-) 2h30 flight if you prefer to be their faster, but the road trip is realy nice
merch convo would’ve been good to do offline. kinda uncomfy to watch lol
True, but even if it’s uncomfortable it does further humanize them. Like we see that Ashley is aware of potentially being too harsh, and I think there’s some value in seeing uncomfortable conversations that are not executed perfectly.
Ok actually maybe I change my mind. Like because we don’t know everything it certainly opens them up to criticism, where they could’ve avoided it by not sharing the convo.
So close to 100k!
My weekly head to anime club and listen to Chosen Family on the way 💚
1:36 real
I had a major surgery at 18 and that was the only thing I was concerned about tbh (maybe it's all the true crime lol) but good thing I trusted my doctor and she was in the operation room with another doctor..
@patreon listener question about LGBTQIA+ shame and guilt from religion -
There are some amazing deep interviews of lgbtqia+ from the Mormon/ex-mormon community on three different podcasts talking about their journeys, struggles and breakthroughs in their process - Mormon stories podcast, latter gay stories podcast, and peace out podcast. Mind-blowingly important interviews - some long-form - from church doctrine, relationship with religion, relationship w g-d, to embracing being lgbtq+, to coming out, to staying in the church, to leaving the church, to being excommunicated, to dealing with the internal shame, guilt and trained restrictions in intimacy.
Wishing you true happiness.
Merch convo was very uncomfortable to watch.. def should’ve happened in private
also a lil butch who likes to make floral arrangements 👋🏻 I highly recommend the book “Color Me Floral” by Kiana Underwood. every color palette you could imagine using every flower under the sun. Also I think for the mothers day episode we should see Ashley making a floral arrangement. Maybe im the only one who would be jazzed about that lol 😂
My life has changed so much recently and it's been kind of amazing I just wanted to share with you and say how happy I am I hope you're all having a wonderful day 😊💯❤️🎵🎶🎤
Flat-pack, flat-pack! I am with Ashley, I love IKEA. (I was born because of IKEA, no joke.) Thanks again for seeing us bisexual women so well once again, especially when it comes to the topic of children in a straight-passing relationship. There are still people who are waiting for, or seem to believe, in this "resolve" of my bisexuality. Love you all. ❤💕💜💙
i swear in those insta recipes they sometimes leave out ingredients either in the comments, or video, or both to gatekeep the recipes!
Tote bags and hats please, Mak 😁
I identify as bi (currently single) and I really resonated with y'all talking about the straight/gay dynamics about wanting kids - I am pretty positive that I don't want to carry a child and the idea of pregnancy does not at all interest me, but I DO think I would like to have kids someday, and I've thought about how that combination feels less possible in a straight-passing relationship vs a gay one. Obviously there are options either way, but the dynamics are so different. Even just in talking to my male friends, I don't think there's the same level understanding of the burdens of motherhood/pregnancy-it's maybe seen as a sacrifice, but it's a simplified view. It's a weird place to be in!!
19:50 me too, Alayna! I can't handle it anymore. Hell, I can't even handle a Canadian Superstore anymore (to be fair, that's partly related to my "relational injury" from my past relationship)
1:57 my friend is an anesthesiologist. I asked why and she said “Because I get to legally drug people and my patients are pretty quiet” 😂
I’m sooooo proud of you Alayna!!❤❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉
My straight friends got married without discussing their expectations around kids and how many if any etc. A year later at their birthday party, they had a fight over kids. He wants a "mini-him" if not a large army, and she doesn't want her body to change. They've now almost divorced over this because she keeps changing her mind on it, but won't get off birth control.
wait I thought the difference between guilt and shame was that guilt is directed inward whereas shame relates to other people's judgement. so guilt is feeling inside that you've done something wrong, and shame is feeling embarrassed about what other people think. maybe it's also the identity thing hmmm.
ugh I love ikea ❤️ in high school my friends and I would Respectfully play hide and seek & then dine out on their soft serve ice creams , highly recommend 👌
I have AuDfknHD and I'm off my meds. Taking my ritalin now so I can focus. Looking forward to this one 😎
I concur with Alayna, our Van Ikea does have sections where all the products of a certain type are together - doesn't every Ikea?
My partner and I both decided independently that we didn't want children. I was made to raise my siblings, who also had their own issues, so I am done.
ALAYNA. YES. Vancouver Costco is a horrible experience. I hate going too. Costco in less populated areas, much nicer experience
Pleeeeeaaaassseee merch!!! Will buy!
Had a rough day. Blessed by this episode, blessed by being gay!
Also, Dad said to share and doing that now
I dont know why, but every time I see Alayna's picture in the intro, it makes me think of fantasy elves. #FantasyElfAesthetic
Fully backing DAD this ep. Mac, 'om look'n at 'chuuuu...
I literally got a praying ad once I clicked on this video
YES! Within the last year or two. I hate ikea and Costco.
The vomit bit was really funny 😂