He cannot say he doesnt undrstand consent since he tried to hide all of it. He ONLY WANT IT BECAUSE IT IS MONSTROUS AND ABUSIVE. HE Is a selfish liar who want to get of abusing ppl with his most disgusting fantasies of failed power.
I've looked into this deeply. Neil Gaiman doesn't seem to understand the idea of how consent actually works and the power differential between him and the girls/women is very troublesome. He's an old, experienced man. He surely must realise how manipulative he's been. His links with Scientology since childhood are worrisome too. Scientology seems to teach manipulative and aggressive techniques (see Tom Cruise for examples of these techniques in practice)
@@Muccamukkagree and when you look at his work there's like subtle inside jokes that he's put there. Richard Madoc abusing calliope and calling himself a male feminist, Neil Gaiman's middle name is Richard. Why else would the antagonist of that story be called that????
@@charlotteclarke3393 I admit I'm not a huge fan of retrospective tea leaf reading in a creator's work to find out how we should've known he was problematic all along. (Even as someone whose first comment on the situation was something like: "Oh, so Richard Madoc was just Neil Gaiman all along, great.") Richard is an immensely popular name in the UK, and has been for the last thousand years. Luck of the draw seems a lot more likely than, "Gaiman was secretly messaging to us that he was doing SA." It's not like JMS giving both his leading men on B5 "J.S." as initials.
Love some of his work and that's a different topic. I totally agree, any man over 60, famous or not, who believes a 23 year old woman wants to be naked in a bath with her naked employer two hours after meeting is either delusional or a deliberate predator, regardless of any details of what happened that night. And apparently he did admit that bath did happen.
Thanks Paul and Rachel. I know people have wanted to dismiss this because you broke this story and the way it was reported. At least you listened to the women and let them tell their stories. I don't think that the New York Times would have covered this unless you had taken this up first. It sounds like noone else was willing to put in the work that you did.. and I do believe you have saved young women through your actions. If you do any further ones I would say that releasing your own transcript would be helpful to those like me who find this difficult listening.
You did a really commendable job on the podcasts, it was very fair and well rounded. Thank you for going to such trouble to treat it with the delicacy and neutrality it needed. I also learned a lot about the details of sexual abuse law by listening! Also super helpful. Very well done.
Thank you for your diligent reporting, Tortoise. More news outlets are picking this story up and Gaiman’s victims are being acknowledged and heard. Please keep up the important work.
you OBVIOUSLY have never been abused by a supremely powerful, rich and famous person before. before metoo campaign, even try to open your mouth after that and see what happens.
Thank you for the added insight into your process. Very interesting! Typo in the description: Gaiman has strenuously denied any non-consensual sex or sexual *abuce* took place with any of the women.
@@Friendofstfrank Unless you have different information than is available to the public, none of the women who have spoken up so far were under the age of consent. Let's not spread misinformation.
@@esotericfaeryy I lean toward a NDA and/or a significant amount of money being involved. Palmer doesn't seem to be the type to stay quiet about such issues. (I mean that in the best way.) It's all speculation until she speaks out though.
Yes...I find Palmer's silence as alarming. It's hard to know whether she was complicit, a victim herself, or both. If she knew what he was like before and after these recent women came into their lives, then she's just as much an arsehole (and hypocrite).
@@lilycurrwhat i took from the podcast is that she knew he was a player but she in no way knew of this before Scarlett talked to her and she was disgusted
This just horrible to hear and witness. Now Sandman is ruined for me forever and i was sooo looking forward to season 2, but now its ruined 😞😢 Obviously what these women had to experience is way worse, so my condolences to them!
I've never been a fan but i watched sandman's s1 and the caliope episode and the way he treated SA and abuse disgusted me. He was hiding in plain sight i guess
It’s the victims choice whether to go to the police, or speak out publicly. About 1% of all rapes reported to police end in successful prosecution, & it’s incredibly traumatic. So it’s no wonder few choose that path.
They go on podcasts because the police stop pursuing the reported cases that are not 100% winnable. If you listened to the 6 episodes, one did go to the police but nothing resulted from it and the podcast did a much better job of telling her story.
"heroes" lol celebrity is there at the top worshipped by millions BECAUSE they had no qualms stepping over dead bodies figuratively and therefore had no morals to begin with. You won't find a famous person with good morals because they are non-existent. If you think there is one, you don't know them enough. These are all your heroes - the non-existent people in your head bathed in golden light and fake fronts and appearances. You HAVE to be narcissistic to become famous. That's what's wrong with society - we consider heroes wrong people.
By his accusers' accounts, he groomed, coerced, and bribed them, engaged in sadistic sex with them, then swiftly discarded them. They were led to believe they were in a relationship with him when in fact he was just using and abusing them.
@@soapmode Seems to me that would be subjective. Without some proof that the person in power truly made claims like "If you do this for me, I'll make sure these things happen for you" then it could be, "I'm so starry eyed for them and they *want* me!". This happens to non famous people all the time. I had one guy who thought because I kissed him on the cheek after one date, that we were exclusive and I was going to be with him forever. Seriously. One date. And I'm not all that *or* a bag of chips!
@@amandaunderhill5336 He gave room and board to a woman whose husband was in his employ. He then sacked her husband and demanded sexual favors from said woman on pain of her and her children being kicked out onto the street, allegedly.
They have ZERO culpable evidence that Gaiman committed ANY sexual assault, let alone rape, none of these accusations would hold up in ANY US or UK court.
Yes. If someone is of legal age, has no mental disability, and isn’t physically forced or threatened to engage in sexual acts, it is consensual. Having sex with someone because you think they won’t be as generous with opportunities or promotions/etc. is not rape; it’s using your body to get ahead. To be clear, I don’t know the specific allegations or who made them, but I do know that many men have been falsely accused, and that we should never believe a claim simply on someone’s word, especially if the claim could be beneficial to the one making it. People aren’t more trustworthy because they’re women, nor are they more likely to offend because they’re famous or rich. I miss when society insisted on compelling evidence before saying a person did something. The “MeToo movement” did exponentially more harm than good.
Listen to the podcasts. The police didn't care, because no one wants to go against a powerful and famous man. His victims have been asking for help for decades. Don't be deluisonal. That just ads to the problem.
Yes and indewd the police is already doung the diligences. Although he managed to be untouchable for a ling time due to being rich and famous (and he also knows many secrets about powerful ppl)
Girls have to be raised to see the battlefield without ruining them. All this grooming with absentee social patriarchy to shield the girls into blooming into warrior women is a great shame.
@prodigalfraudaddy-es1gl there are 3 things that taught me against my parents efforts to shield me which would endanger me by keeping me in ignorance: agatha christie's miss marple whose "mind like a kitchen sink" allowed her to see motivations that she did not share, hongkong's shanghai mogul culture that commoditized youth and beauty that AT LEAST even if you were not interested in selling yourself, implanted an idea of a stranger's perspective so if you see a foundation pillar in human relationships, you cannot unsee it and finally, Gigi by Colette. So by 17, i could propose to my friend imagine if a 21 yr old's interest in her would be as impressive and romantic if she was 21 not 17. My way, you can see the map of what woody allen and neil gaiman are thinking and if you knew what they were thinking, you would pass. That's exactly the response of warren ellis' injured women. Colette's Gigi's aunt and the hk courtesans would say you have to make the best deal you can which btw is what got carina lau kidnapped. Because you are trying to vampire feed off killers. Neil Gaiman imo is very dangerous physically but without the reach of harvey weinstein and jeffrey epstein willing to hire hitmen. What he is accused of sounds like a careful destroyer. There are many out there. They used to walk up to me and then get a flicker of a rage and remove themselves. These girls sound so nice and still sound nice grown up. They remind me of the feminists i knew in college. All you need is a manual like learning to drive. You need to see reality. It doesnt destroy hopes and dreams of meeting the right person. It just protects you from Neil Gaiman.
@@velvet_victor easy to say, but it seems the need to admire is deeply embedded in the human psyche. So I try to choose my idols carefully, based on their generosity and their altruism. After long consideration, I have come to the conclusion that charisma itself is inherently dangerous, whether intentionally used to manipulate and entrap, or unintentionally alluring.
Yes, the handsome, wealthy, talented, charismatic man is entirely responsible for 100% dating satisfaction for 10,000 women lined up around the block for the chance to have sex with him and maybe get a free car.
This is not what they accuse him of. Go listen to the podcast and try not to be disgusted afterwards. It's way more horrific and gory than it's been reported on media
Every day, the "trend" in which popular personalities are accused of rape is becoming more popular. It's a pity when GIRLS and WOMEN blatantly lie about such SERIOUS things for the sake of popularity and money. After all, there are victims who really need help, but because of the large number of liars, no one will help them and they will not be believed...This is so sad, I don't know if the accusations against Neil are true, but it's really sad... 😩
This was with minors also and been going on for over 20 years. it is up to 10. It could not be that rich powerful men do this, could it? No they all must be lying.
lol the vague handwaving you're doing suggests you don't know any of the details and are just annoyed because someone else's suffering might mean that you have to change your own behavior
Johnson's involvement in this "reporting" destroys any of its already dubious credibility. Isnt it strange that almost no one on the Right gets investigating for these kind of accusations?
You are wrong. There is no probability of right politically ppl getting accused versus left minded people. Here are the following people associated with the right accused of serious misconduct that you can find online right now: Donald Trump, Richard Nixon, Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan, Pete Hegseth, RFK jr., Vince Mc Mahon, Linda McMahon, Brett Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas. This reporting was done concerning one person who is not known for having behavior that would have set off red flags, is famous as a writer and Hollywood producer, and whose works are enjoyed by generally more left-wing young people.
While I believe the victims, I find it hilarious that this podcast is co-hosted by the sister of Boris Johnson: one of the biggest liars on the planet. Why don't you do a podcast on him Rachel?
@@Fearnstein Yep. The hypocrisy is strong with this one...and again, while I believe Gaiman is a creep, I think RJ's involvement actually damages the podcast's credibility.
He cannot say he doesnt undrstand consent since he tried to hide all of it. He ONLY WANT IT BECAUSE IT IS MONSTROUS AND ABUSIVE. HE Is a selfish liar who want to get of abusing ppl with his most disgusting fantasies of failed power.
Ugh what a disappointment from Neil Gaiman… thanks for covering this.
Do we see here facts? No. That would be presented at official institutions like police or courts. They do social media fire. Cancel culture.
I've looked into this deeply. Neil Gaiman doesn't seem to understand the idea of how consent actually works and the power differential between him and the girls/women is very troublesome.
He's an old, experienced man. He surely must realise how manipulative he's been.
His links with Scientology since childhood are worrisome too. Scientology seems to teach manipulative and aggressive techniques (see Tom Cruise for examples of these techniques in practice)
I fully believe that he knows what he's doing. He just doesn't care.
@@Muccamukk
Tbh I'm inclined to agree.
I'm glad that these journalists have brought this to light
@@Muccamukkagree and when you look at his work there's like subtle inside jokes that he's put there. Richard Madoc abusing calliope and calling himself a male feminist, Neil Gaiman's middle name is Richard. Why else would the antagonist of that story be called that????
@@charlotteclarke3393 I admit I'm not a huge fan of retrospective tea leaf reading in a creator's work to find out how we should've known he was problematic all along. (Even as someone whose first comment on the situation was something like: "Oh, so Richard Madoc was just Neil Gaiman all along, great.") Richard is an immensely popular name in the UK, and has been for the last thousand years. Luck of the draw seems a lot more likely than, "Gaiman was secretly messaging to us that he was doing SA." It's not like JMS giving both his leading men on B5 "J.S." as initials.
Love some of his work and that's a different topic. I totally agree, any man over 60, famous or not, who believes a 23 year old woman wants to be naked in a bath with her naked employer two hours after meeting is either delusional or a deliberate predator, regardless of any details of what happened that night. And apparently he did admit that bath did happen.
Thanks Paul and Rachel. I know people have wanted to dismiss this because you broke this story and the way it was reported. At least you listened to the women and let them tell their stories. I don't think that the New York Times would have covered this unless you had taken this up first. It sounds like noone else was willing to put in the work that you did.. and I do believe you have saved young women through your actions. If you do any further ones I would say that releasing your own transcript would be helpful to those like me who find this difficult listening.
Thank you for the work you've done, and for sharing the details of your investigation with us.
You did a really commendable job on the podcasts, it was very fair and well rounded. Thank you for going to such trouble to treat it with the delicacy and neutrality it needed.
I also learned a lot about the details of sexual abuse law by listening! Also super helpful.
Very well done.
Thank you for your diligent reporting, Tortoise. More news outlets are picking this story up and Gaiman’s victims are being acknowledged and heard. Please keep up the important work.
Are they getting a voice though? 😂 This video is 100% hearsay. 5 accusers came forward 😂
Supposed… allegedly… ☝️
Thank you SO much for covering this.
It's annoying because this happened when he started to get fame again because of the Netflix show. Why wasn't this investigated before?
Multiple women tried to speak up before, and no one listened to them.
you OBVIOUSLY have never been abused by a supremely powerful, rich and famous person before. before metoo campaign, even try to open your mouth after that and see what happens.
@@Muccamukkbecause nobody presents evidence that they talk about they have. ☝️
Thank you for the added insight into your process. Very interesting!
Typo in the description: Gaiman has strenuously denied any non-consensual sex or sexual *abuce* took place with any of the women.
Thank you for caretaking the most comprehensive news roundup about the allegations ❤
Yep, he says it was consensual even with the minors-under age consent.
@@Friendofstfrank Unless you have different information than is available to the public, none of the women who have spoken up so far were under the age of consent. Let's not spread misinformation.
I think it would be interesting to hear what Amanda Palmer has to say.
She might concerned that if she speaks up he could have the power to take their kid away from her. I do wish she would make a statement though.
@@esotericfaeryy I lean toward a NDA and/or a significant amount of money being involved. Palmer doesn't seem to be the type to stay quiet about such issues. (I mean that in the best way.)
It's all speculation until she speaks out though.
Yes...I find Palmer's silence as alarming. It's hard to know whether she was complicit, a victim herself, or both. If she knew what he was like before and after these recent women came into their lives, then she's just as much an arsehole (and hypocrite).
@@lilycurrwhat i took from the podcast is that she knew he was a player but she in no way knew of this before Scarlett talked to her and she was disgusted
Well, I recall reading an introduction written by his friend Terry Pratchett, where he jokingly, called Gaiman a sadist, perhaps he knew something…?
This just horrible to hear and witness.
Now Sandman is ruined for me forever and i was sooo looking forward to season 2, but now its ruined 😞😢
Obviously what these women had to experience is way worse, so my condolences to them!
I've never been a fan but i watched sandman's s1 and the caliope episode and the way he treated SA and abuse disgusted me. He was hiding in plain sight i guess
Shouldn't reports be made by the police or someone in charge? Not on some fucking podcast
It’s the victims choice whether to go to the police, or speak out publicly. About 1% of all rapes reported to police end in successful prosecution, & it’s incredibly traumatic. So it’s no wonder few choose that path.
They go on podcasts because the police stop pursuing the reported cases that are not 100% winnable. If you listened to the 6 episodes, one did go to the police but nothing resulted from it and the podcast did a much better job of telling her story.
What an absolute bummer! First Russell Brand and now Neil Gaiman... Where have all my heroes gone,
I’m glad Diddy was never one of them. Mine neither.
"heroes" lol celebrity is there at the top worshipped by millions BECAUSE they had no qualms stepping over dead bodies figuratively and therefore had no morals to begin with. You won't find a famous person with good morals because they are non-existent. If you think there is one, you don't know them enough. These are all your heroes - the non-existent people in your head bathed in golden light and fake fronts and appearances. You HAVE to be narcissistic to become famous. That's what's wrong with society - we consider heroes wrong people.
Nobody should have “heroes” or idols
Don't worship false idols. That's your lesson
Great video. Few are covering this.
So did he force anybody or not? For me that's the relevant point here.
By his accusers' accounts, he groomed, coerced, and bribed them, engaged in sadistic sex with them, then swiftly discarded them. They were led to believe they were in a relationship with him when in fact he was just using and abusing them.
@@soapmode "Bribing" at least is always with consent. Another word for it is sex-work.
@@soapmode Seems to me that would be subjective. Without some proof that the person in power truly made claims like "If you do this for me, I'll make sure these things happen for you" then it could be, "I'm so starry eyed for them and they *want* me!". This happens to non famous people all the time. I had one guy who thought because I kissed him on the cheek after one date, that we were exclusive and I was going to be with him forever. Seriously. One date. And I'm not all that *or* a bag of chips!
@@amandaunderhill5336 He gave room and board to a woman whose husband was in his employ. He then sacked her husband and demanded sexual favors from said woman on pain of her and her children being kicked out onto the street, allegedly.
They have ZERO culpable evidence that Gaiman committed ANY sexual assault, let alone rape, none of these accusations would hold up in ANY US or UK court.
Tortoise's podcast on amber heard was well done
Is it ever really consensual if there's a huge power differential between two people?
I'll go even further and ask the question: is sex ever really consensual? and I'd say no. We all need to reject sex completely, it's the only way.
@@derpestarztGood grief.
Yes. If someone is of legal age, has no mental disability, and isn’t physically forced or threatened to engage in sexual acts, it is consensual.
Having sex with someone because you think they won’t be as generous with opportunities or promotions/etc. is not rape; it’s using your body to get ahead.
To be clear, I don’t know the specific allegations or who made them, but I do know that many men have been falsely accused, and that we should never believe a claim simply on someone’s word, especially if the claim could be beneficial to the one making it.
People aren’t more trustworthy because they’re women, nor are they more likely to offend because they’re famous or rich.
I miss when society insisted on compelling evidence before saying a person did something.
The “MeToo movement” did exponentially more harm than good.
@@FallenAziraphale I agree lol my comment was satire bc this stuff has become so ridiculous.
@@derpestarztmy body said yes but my spirit was questioning 😂😂😂😂 that's a Kevin Gates song 🤣
Isn't this for the police???
What is?
Listen to the podcasts. The police didn't care, because no one wants to go against a powerful and famous man. His victims have been asking for help for decades. Don't be deluisonal. That just ads to the problem.
Yes and indewd the police is already doung the diligences. Although he managed to be untouchable for a ling time due to being rich and famous (and he also knows many secrets about powerful ppl)
@@TookThisPictureInSpace Police don't care about disgusting behavior, they only care about crimes.
if a person is a famous and public person whose behaviour automatically set standards for others - it is for everyone, goodness sake.
Girls have to be raised to see the battlefield without ruining them. All this grooming with absentee social patriarchy to shield the girls into blooming into warrior women is a great shame.
Can u give an example?
@prodigalfraudaddy-es1gl there are 3 things that taught me against my parents efforts to shield me which would endanger me by keeping me in ignorance: agatha christie's miss marple whose "mind like a kitchen sink" allowed her to see motivations that she did not share, hongkong's shanghai mogul culture that commoditized youth and beauty that AT LEAST even if you were not interested in selling yourself, implanted an idea of a stranger's perspective so if you see a foundation pillar in human relationships, you cannot unsee it and finally, Gigi by Colette.
So by 17, i could propose to my friend imagine if a 21 yr old's interest in her would be as impressive and romantic if she was 21 not 17.
My way, you can see the map of what woody allen and neil gaiman are thinking and if you knew what they were thinking, you would pass. That's exactly the response of warren ellis' injured women. Colette's Gigi's aunt and the hk courtesans would say you have to make the best deal you can which btw is what got carina lau kidnapped. Because you are trying to vampire feed off killers. Neil Gaiman imo is very dangerous physically but without the reach of harvey weinstein and jeffrey epstein willing to hire hitmen. What he is accused of sounds like a careful destroyer.
There are many out there. They used to walk up to me and then get a flicker of a rage and remove themselves.
These girls sound so nice and still sound nice grown up. They remind me of the feminists i knew in college. All you need is a manual like learning to drive. You need to see reality. It doesnt destroy hopes and dreams of meeting the right person. It just protects you from Neil Gaiman.
So, Neil Gaiman, Woody Allen, Harvey Weinstein, James Franco . . . .. now, is anyone really surprised?
Find better heros, people!
Better so, don’t have heroes. Everybody is subject to disappoint you at any time.
@@velvet_victor easy to say, but it seems the need to admire is deeply embedded in the human psyche. So I try to choose my idols carefully, based on their generosity and their altruism.
After long consideration, I have come to the conclusion that charisma itself is inherently dangerous, whether intentionally used to manipulate and entrap, or unintentionally alluring.
Yes, the handsome, wealthy, talented, charismatic man is entirely responsible for 100% dating satisfaction for 10,000 women lined up around the block for the chance to have sex with him and maybe get a free car.
This is not what they accuse him of. Go listen to the podcast and try not to be disgusted afterwards. It's way more horrific and gory than it's been reported on media
Every day, the "trend" in which popular personalities are accused of rape is becoming more popular. It's a pity when GIRLS and WOMEN blatantly lie about such SERIOUS things for the sake of popularity and money. After all, there are victims who really need help, but because of the large number of liars, no one will help them and they will not be believed...This is so sad, I don't know if the accusations against Neil are true, but it's really sad... 😩
LOL.
This was with minors also and been going on for over 20 years. it is up to 10.
It could not be that rich powerful men do this, could it? No they all must be lying.
5 women to victim blame or one sick twisted dude 😂 I think you fell for the bait here...
Give me any high profile example of a woman who got famous, popular or rich by accusing a man of SA.
lol the vague handwaving you're doing suggests you don't know any of the details and are just annoyed because someone else's suffering might mean that you have to change your own behavior
Johnson's involvement in this "reporting" destroys any of its already dubious credibility. Isnt it strange that almost no one on the Right gets investigating for these kind of accusations?
it's not strange because it's not true. The actual leader of the american right was found to have raped someone within the past 2 years.
Gaiman's PR? LOL
You are wrong. There is no probability of right politically ppl getting accused versus left minded people. Here are the following people associated with the right accused of serious misconduct that you can find online right now: Donald Trump, Richard Nixon, Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan, Pete Hegseth, RFK jr., Vince Mc Mahon, Linda McMahon, Brett Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas. This reporting was done concerning one person who is not known for having behavior that would have set off red flags, is famous as a writer and Hollywood producer, and whose works are enjoyed by generally more left-wing young people.
People like you disgust me
Hahaha! I didn't know how many lefty blue hairs were fans. Good.
While I believe the victims, I find it hilarious that this podcast is co-hosted by the sister of Boris Johnson: one of the biggest liars on the planet. Why don't you do a podcast on him Rachel?
And 5 accusers on the case... Like one or two for a famous person? Iiiiii guess? 5x is a pattern 😂
Thats a strange question. My brother use to have opposite political views than me. They are 2 different ppl
I don’t believe to anyone until it’s not proved as a fact on official court. Social media cancel culture is not court or jury.
@@Fearnstein Yep. The hypocrisy is strong with this one...and again, while I believe Gaiman is a creep, I think RJ's involvement actually damages the podcast's credibility.
@@lilycurri don't know her views but the podcast is good and well researched